LFN: PL Media Day Report...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

... is unfortunately not ready yet, coming soon.

Why, you might ask?

Because those knotheads over at the unnamed company that hosts my blog (hint: rhymes with splogger) have suspended it because it shows "characteristics of being a spam blog."

It should be something that works itself out in a day or so (it had better only be that,) and then I'll post my report. But - yes - on one of the days where it is most crucial that I have a blog that is up and running I cannot post anything.

xbangx xbangx xbangx xsplatx xflamemadx xflamemadx

[CrusaderBob]

LFN,

Quick question. Noticed in the PL photo Gallery of media day, there were no pictures of Holy Cross - no coach Gilmoe, no offensive POY Dom Randolph, not even an emprty table with the Holy Cross banner on it.

Where there any HC representatives there? Or was HC just camera shy?

[DFW HOYA]

How many press members outside the Morning Call and Express-News made the trip?

[carney2]

How many press members outside the Morning Call and Express-News made the trip?

LFN and a stringer from the Quakertown (PA) Weekly Shopper.

[Ivytalk]

LFN,

Quick question. Noticed in the PL photo Gallery of media day, there were no pictures of Holy Cross - no coach Gilmoe, no offensive POY Dom Randolph, not even an emprty table with the Holy Cross banner on it.

Where there any HC representatives there? Or was HC just camera shy?

HC is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Boston College!:p

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN,

Quick question. Noticed in the PL photo Gallery of media day, there were no pictures of Holy Cross - no coach Gilmoe, no offensive POY Dom Randolph, not even an emprty table with the Holy Cross banner on it.

Where there any HC representatives there? Or was HC just camera shy?

Coach Gilmore was there, as was Dom Randolph and Terence Gass. I even played golf with HC's SID. So I'd just call it being camera shy. xthumbsupx

[TheValleyRaider]

How many press members outside the Morning Call and Express-News made the trip?

I saw Coulson from the Sports Network in the PL's photo gallery

[CrusaderBob]

HC is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Boston College!:p


Them's fightin' words, Ivytalk!

And those of us who know the histrory of and between the two schools, know that BC is the prodigal son! We're just waiting for him to coming running over the hillside looking for forgiveness. xsmiley_wix

[CrusaderBob]

Coach Gilmore was there, as was Dom Randolph and Terence Gass. I even played golf with HC's SID. So I'd just call it being camera shy. xthumbsupx


Anyone who knows coach Gilmore, clearly knows he isn't shy, and so in an effort to spin this appropriately - straight from the NE Patriots' playbook ...

The lack of pictures of any HC players, coaches, teh pre-season Offensive Player of the Year or even a banner drapped table is clearly a snub by the league and only provides evidence that Holy Cross is not respected, and nobody is giving them a chance. We'll show them an shock the world!!! xnodx xsmiley_wix

[CrusaderBob]

Naturally I post the above and went back and checked the PL photo gallery. Sure enough 3 pictures have been added.

One of the PL Commissioner
One of Mark Romans
One of Dom Randolph

All three look like they were taken on someone's cell phone, so perhaps it's not a lack of respect, but rather simply the official photographer ran out of memory on the good camera. xoopsx xnodx xlolx

[Go...gate]

Nice try, CrusaderBob.....;) xlolx

[CrusaderBob]

Nice try, CrusaderBob.....;) xlolx

OK. Would you believe ...

.... carney doesn't give us any respect. xlolx xnodx

[Umass74]

... is unfortunately not ready yet, coming soon.

Why, you might ask?

Because those knotheads over at the unnamed company that hosts my blog (hint: rhymes with splogger) have suspended it because it shows "characteristics of being a spam blog."

It should be something that works itself out in a day or so (it had better only be that,) and then I'll post my report. But - yes - on one of the days where it is most crucial that I have a blog that is up and running I cannot post anything.

I went through the same thing with the UMass Football Blog (http://umass74.blogspot.com/). I e-mailed them and after about three days they lifted the ban (without replying to my e-mail). Suddenly I could post again.

Good luck!

[TheValleyRaider]

OK. Would you believe ...

.... carney doesn't give us any respect. xlolx xnodx

Well, I'll believe it.....

I just don't think it matters :p xlolx

HC has Colgate's respect, that's for certain xnodx

[carney2]

OK. Would you believe ...

.... carney doesn't give us any respect. xlolx xnodx

So true, Robert, so true. Yet, nary a discouraging word has been uttered on this site.

[ngineer]

Too bad LFN--I dropped in your blog today just to read about the 'day'. We'll see how the MC and ET play it tomorrow. Did hear some quotes from Tavani and Coen about how they hope their respective schools' rankings will motivate their charges.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks to the folks at spl... I mean Blogger that fixed their issue with the "spam blog" realitvely quickly and allowed me to post it today.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

Pretty big news coming out of there.

[danefan]

Thanks to the folks at spl... I mean Blogger that fixed their issue with the "spam blog" realitvely quickly and allowed me to post it today.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

Pretty big news coming out of there.

What are the chances that one of the CAA North squads ends up going to a PL scholarship football league as an affiliate?

Maine? URI?
I doubt it would be Nova or Richmond, although those teams fit academically.

Who else could be there for expansion unless Marist bolts from the PFL?
Iona? I doubt they have the $$$$ to jump to the PL.

[Go...gate]

What are the chances that one of the CAA North squads ends up going to a PL scholarship football league as an affiliate?

Maine? URI?
I doubt it would be Nova or Richmond, although those teams fit academically.

Who else could be there for expansion unless Marist bolts from the PFL?
Iona? I doubt they have the $$$$ to jump to the PL.

Important, IMO, that LFN points out that Marist said they would come aboard and live by PL guidelines, but something bigger clearly seems afoot. The downturn in the economy and travel costs may also be coming into play, which makes URI and Marist a possibilty because they are already within the geographical footprint of the PL.

[LUHawker]

I thought there were rumblings about trying to bring RPI on board. They are D-III in football and would be subject to the NCAA timeline on moving "up", but RPI sounds like a school that all of the PL Presidents could live with. I like RPI as an option much better than URI, Maine or Marist. I am holding out no hope for Villanova or Richmond, but with scholarships and an improvement in the league's performance, I could see these schools at least, revisiting the possibility.

[ngineer]

Glad to see our appetite is being whetted...If any of the northern CAA schools or Big South schools are targets then scholarships may be in the mix; but not necessarily if Marist is on the horizion as they're in the non-scholarship PFL as of this year. Looking forward to the interviews!xthumbsupx

[danefan]

I thought there were rumblings about trying to bring RPI on board. They are D-III in football and would be subject to the NCAA timeline on moving "up", but RPI sounds like a school that all of the PL Presidents could live with. I like RPI as an option much better than URI, Maine or Marist. I am holding out no hope for Villanova or Richmond, but with scholarships and an improvement in the league's performance, I could see these schools at least, revisiting the possibility.

RPI is going to be a long shot. They are pretty much committed to DIII everything except hockey.

But you never really know. They have a ton of money and academically they are as good as any PL school already. I'm just not sure if they are ready to make the DI jump in all sports.

[Go...gate]

I thought there were rumblings about trying to bring RPI on board. They are D-III in football and would be subject to the NCAA timeline on moving "up", but RPI sounds like a school that all of the PL Presidents could live with. I like RPI as an option much better than URI, Maine or Marist. I am holding out no hope for Villanova or Richmond, but with scholarships and an improvement in the league's performance, I could see these schools at least, revisiting the possibility.

IMO, RPI is a home run for the PL.

To get Richmond or Villanova would be wonderful, but they don't seem to want us.

[Go...gate]

Glad to see our appetite is being whetted...If any of the northern CAA schools or Big South schools are targets then scholarships may be in the mix; but not necessarily if Marist is on the horizion as they're in the non-scholarship PFL as of this year. Looking forward to the interviews!xthumbsupx

Only Big South would seem to be VMI, which I have always liked as an addition, but I think travel costs now play into the equation more than ever. Would be nice to have them, though, and they might go all-sports, which one would hope at least some of the expansion candidates would consider. Say what you want about American, but they threw in with us.

[TheValleyRaider]

RPI is really the school I dream about the PL taking, but like danefan said, it's hard to say if they're really at all interested or capable of making the jump. I have to think a "behind the scenes" message to RPI, saying the PL would definately accept them were they to make the jump, certainly wouldn't hurt matters (conference affiliation is one of the big ??? teams moving up face), though that's more wishful thinking on my part. Still, having the moratorium can allow a lot of the behind the scenes work to get done in order to hit the ground running on a transition without the pressure of moving quickly

Marist I wonder about if only because they're still spending at the non-scholarship level. Would they be willing to sink the money into their program to improve their competitiveness within the League? Would the PL Presidents even consider them?

I think Maine and URI are long shots as well, only because I still have a hard time seeing the PL go the Public School route

I'd bet sights are set on Villanova and/or Richmond, with one of LFN's favorite suggestions VMI maybe still in the equation. That, of course, is without some unnamed school like Gettysburg or Johns Hopkins going the DI route that we haven't heard about

[ngineer]

RPI is really the school I dream about the PL taking, but like danefan said, it's hard to say if they're really at all interested or capable of making the jump. I have to think a "behind the scenes" message to RPI, saying the PL would definately accept them were they to make the jump, certainly wouldn't hurt matters (conference affiliation is one of the big ??? teams moving up face), though that's more wishful thinking on my part. Still, having the moratorium can allow a lot of the behind the scenes work to get done in order to hit the ground running on a transition without the pressure of moving quickly

Marist I wonder about if only because they're still spending at the non-scholarship level. Would they be willing to sink the money into their program to improve their competitiveness within the League? Would the PL Presidents even consider them?

I think Maine and URI are long shots as well, only because I still have a hard time seeing the PL go the Public School route

I'd bet sights are set on Villanova and/or Richmond, with one of LFN's favorite suggestions VMI maybe still in the equation. That, of course, is without some unnamed school like Gettysburg or Johns Hopkins going the DI route that we haven't heard about

JHU would, IMO, be the best D-III candidate who would want to move up. Stellar academics and their lacrosse is superb--making the PL a dominant force in an up and coming national sport.

[Fordham]

Great stuff, LFN.

First off, it really is too bad that we can't get any local publicity for the Rams up in NYC. That said, I understand the point you were making about newspapers cutting back but regardless of that I think the league has really also done a very poor job of doing what it takes to get more attention for this event in particular and overall in general.

As far as expansion - my guess would be Northeastern so that HC would finally have a nearby league school to play. I also hold out hope about Richmond and 'Nova.

As far as the Big South - how are Stony Brook's academics in comparison with a Marist?

[DFW HOYA]

IMO, RPI is a home run for the PL.


WHAT? Adding D-III schools is a recipe for failure.

Maybe I'm too new at this, but the glacial pace of league reform is not cutting it. The so-called AI reforms have been discussed for almost two years without resolution and expansion is basically a non issue because schools (other than Marist) don't seem that terribly interested. If the PL cannot do better than Marist or Iona (or RPI), a lot of schools are going to start looking elsewhere.

[Go...gate]

WHAT? Adding D-III schools is a recipe for failure.

Maybe I'm too new at this, but the glacial pace of league reform is not cutting it. The so-called AI reforms have been discussed for almost two years without resolution and expansion is basically a non issue because schools (other than Marist) don't seem that terribly interested. If the PL cannot do better than Marist or Iona (or RPI), a lot of schools are going to start looking elsewhere.

Such as Georgetown? Perhaps I misunderstand, but that's the way I read this post and I hope I am mistaken. The PL is a good spot for you guys.

[DFW HOYA]

No, not Georgetown, but potential PL schools. I don't see Villanova, Richmond, URI et al. seeing the PL as a potential partner if it added RPI.

[Go...gate]

No, not Georgetown, but potential PL schools. I don't see Villanova, Richmond, URI et al. seeing the PL as a potential partner if it added RPI.

I agree, DFW HOYA. Problem right now is that Richmond, based upon their aborted migration to the PL a couple years ago under a past, hated President, sees the PL as essentially radioactive. Villanova would be great but their coach hates the PL and their administration will essentially not move unless forced. Which leaves us with Marist (or maybe VMI or Northeastern) unless a D-III school with comparable academics (RPI, Hopkins, Gettysburg) moves up. IMO, PL will not take a public school, period.

[Tribe4SF]

I agree, DFW HOYA. Problem right now is that Richmond, based upon their aborted migration to the PL a couple years ago under a past, hated President, sees the PL as essentially radioactive. Villanova would be great but their coach hates the PL and their administration will essentially not move unless forced. Which leaves us with Marist (or maybe VMI or Northeastern) unless a D-III school with comparable academics (RPI, Hopkins, Gettysburg) moves up. IMO, PL will not take a public school, period.


VMI is a state school.

[ngineer]

VMI is a state school.

True, but different that the standard 'state school'. Army and Navy are 'state schools' too, and are full PL members, except for football. VMI has a very small enrollment and I understand has pretty decent academic criteria, so I could see an 'exception' there.
Richmond won't move without scholarships. Talley hates the PL, so unless he's retiring, that's a no-go for now.
What about BU reinstating football? If something is going to happen within the next three years, I see Marist, JHU, or BU (assuming a rebirth). Longer term, then Richmond or 'Nova with scholarships.

[CrusaderBob]

Agree that it will take football scholarships to get a Richmond, W&M, Villanova, but if scholarships are instituted to get them, I would hope they are coming as full members, not football only.

BU is WAY too big to fit the PL profile (18,500 undergrads make it almost 2.5 times bigger than next biggest enrollment Fordham 7,700).

If you're looking for a school to revive it's program, Fairfield is a much better candidate. Ranked #2 (after Villanova) in the Northeast Masters Universities according to US News so it fits academically. Is smaller than 'Nova (and BU) and closer to the PL in size (4000 undergrads).

Can't wait to hear the content of the Femovich interview.

[Ken_Z]

y'all should pay a bit more attention when i share my insights and predictions with you.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?p=938145&highlight=Marist#post938145

Ken_Z
Major FCS Advocate


Re: LFN: What Does NEC Autobid Mean For Patriot League? - 05-01-2008, 10:29 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i think some sort of news has to break this summer. Marist not joining the league at a time when need for league expansion has been acknowledged by several presidents indicates that a decision was made in one of two directions:

1) academic strength over athletics i.e look for D3 upgrades to join e.g. RPI, Rochester
2) the league is willing to do what is necessary to appeal to more attractive candidates than Marist i.e. add scholarships in some form

of course the third possibility, the league continues to wander aimlessly is possible, but i think Marist would have been invited (and accepted) in that case.

[Ken_Z]

by the way, i have predicted that the scholarship option will be the route selected. it continues to be a slower process than i would like, but these will be exciting times for the PL faithful.

[Tribe4SF]

Agree that it will take football scholarships to get a Richmond, W&M, Villanova, but if scholarships are instituted to get them, I would hope they are coming as full members, not football only.

.

I doubt there's any chance you get any of those three schools to switch to the PL. All three would see it as a step down. If anyone at W&M brought that possibility up they'd be locked in the public gaol of Colonial Williamsburg.

[Seawolf97]

Great stuff, LFN.

First off, it really is too bad that we can't get any local publicity for the Rams up in NYC. That said, I understand the point you were making about newspapers cutting back but regardless of that I think the league has really also done a very poor job of doing what it takes to get more attention for this event in particular and overall in general.

As far as expansion - my guess would be Northeastern so that HC would finally have a nearby league school to play. I also hold out hope about Richmond and 'Nova.

As far as the Big South - how are Stony Brook's academics in comparison with a Marist?

Stonybrook is a major medical and research university -dont know if we fit your criteria being a state school with almost 25,000 students come September 2008. And I dont think we would give up a full scholarship football program right about now.

[TheValleyRaider]

If you're looking for a school to revive it's program, Fairfield is a much better candidate. Ranked #2 (after Villanova) in the Northeast Masters Universities according to US News so it fits academically. Is smaller than 'Nova (and BU) and closer to the PL in size (4000 undergrads).

Fairfield was a non-scholarship team in the MAAC that gave so little support to its program that they folded after 2002. What's the indication that they'd even be willing to start back up, much less at a level worth joining the Patriot League?

[Go...gate]

I doubt there's any chance you get any of those three schools to switch to the PL. All three would see it as a step down. If anyone at W&M brought that possibility up they'd be locked in the public gaol of Colonial Williamsburg.


William and Mary will never happen. They had a dance with the PL too, and bolted in 1984 before they ever played a game due to the scholarship issue.

[Fordham]

For those saying that scholarships are going to keep any of these schools from joining, these comments are in response to LFN's article mentioning that the league understands that it needs to move on scholarships in order to attract certain football targets (paraphrasing). Thus, while there may be other reasons the schools choose to NOT join the PL, the idea for the discussion is to assume we go scholly and then make the invite.

[CrusaderBob]

WRT William & Mary, Richmond, & Villanova the point was without scholarships there is no chance. With footabll scholarships the odds are still very long, but better than with no scholarships.

WRT Fairfield - the point was IF a school is to resurrect football, Fairfield would be a better option for the PL than BU becuase of size.

In both cases (any of the 3 scholarship school joining and BU or Fairfield bringing back football) the the odds are exceeedingly long for either happening.

[carney2]

So we go thru this exercise again, for what - the 100th time, the 400th time? Our conclusion is always the same: there are very, very few obvious candidates. When this happens - and it will - we can be certain of two things:

1. It will be with football scholarships attached - but with a Patriot League twist.

and

2. It will be a stunner; something that leaves many of us scratching our heads.

[Pard94]

I agree, DFW HOYA. Problem right now is that Richmond, based upon their aborted migration to the PL a couple years ago under a past, hated President, sees the PL as essentially radioactive. Villanova would be great but their coach hates the PL and their administration will essentially not move unless forced. Which leaves us with Marist (or maybe VMI or Northeastern) unless a D-III school with comparable academics (RPI, Hopkins, Gettysburg) moves up. IMO, PL will not take a public school, period.

You are correct...Talley hates the PL. he has always considered himself above our league. That being said, he has got to be in the final years of coaching, no? I'm guessing he is in his mid to late sixties. Does he even have the clout anymore to deny what may be the perfect move for the school? Especially if the PL adopts some sort of scholarship policy. The only sizeable roadblock would be damaging the rivalry with UD.

Incidentally, I am sticking by my predition that I made 2 years ago...there will be football scholarships in the PL within 5 years. I have three years to go. It's moving slow now but it will pass a point where is gathers steam and there will be no stopping the snowball rolling down the hill. It makes too much sense.

If we took a "role call" tomorrow regarding schollies I would think it would look like this:

Lafayette - in favor
Colgate - in favor
Fordham - undecided (leaning in favor)
Bucknell - undecided (leaning in favor)
Lehigh - undecided (leaning against)
Holy Cross - AGAINST
Georgetown - Against
Ivy League - AGAINST

Do I have this correct?

[Fordham]

Fordham is clearly in the "in favor" category.

I also agree that Talley won't be enough of a roadblock here. If schollies are offered it will clear the one big roadblock and then this decision will simply be made above his head. I also don't see any reason why 'Nova-UD can't continue to be their rivalry game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham is clearly in the "in favor" category.

I also agree that Talley won't be enough of a roadblock here. If schollies are offered it will clear the one big roadblock and then this decision will simply be made above his head. I also don't see any reason why 'Nova-UD can't continue to be their rivalry game.

This could continue to be a big bug-a-boo. There's no guarantee that Delaware might change the arrangement to be a 2-for-1 or even a 3-for-1, which would not be in Villanova's best interests. Also, if it's on the last weekend of the regular season, the PL would continue to have the same scheduling difficulties at the end of the year with 7 teams.

IF Villanova joins, it would be as the ninth team IMO, with some acceptable arrangement for the UD/Villanova game.

[Fordham]

So after presenting your teaser blog post, who are the most likely candidates being discussed LFN?

[Go...gate]

So after presenting your teaser blog post, who are the most likely candidates being discussed LFN?


Yes, please advise, LFN. What did Femovich say?

[LUHawker]

You are correct...Talley hates the PL. he has always considered himself above our league. That being said, he has got to be in the final years of coaching, no? I'm guessing he is in his mid to late sixties. Does he even have the clout anymore to deny what may be the perfect move for the school? Especially if the PL adopts some sort of scholarship policy. The only sizeable roadblock would be damaging the rivalry with UD.

Incidentally, I am sticking by my predition that I made 2 years ago...there will be football scholarships in the PL within 5 years. I have three years to go. It's moving slow now but it will pass a point where is gathers steam and there will be no stopping the snowball rolling down the hill. It makes too much sense.

If we took a "role call" tomorrow regarding schollies I would think it would look like this:

Lafayette - in favor
Colgate - in favor
Fordham - undecided (leaning in favor)
Bucknell - undecided (leaning in favor)
Lehigh - undecided (leaning against)
Holy Cross - AGAINST
Georgetown - Against
Ivy League - AGAINST

Do I have this correct?

I am surprised that you have Lehigh in the "leaning against" category. I confesss that I have no insight into the Administration's thoughts on this but it would strike me as inconsistent since Lehigh is still the biggest football school in the PL from an attendance standpoint. And despite the lack of recent playoff appearances, it has had more playoff success (defined as over a multiple year period so as not to offend my Colgate compatriots who can always point to that singular season of playoff success) than any other PL team. Still, even if it was leaning against, if the other 3 schools with which it is joined at the hip were moving for schollies, I've got to believe LU gets on board.

[LUHawker]

If ARMY would just acknowledge their pitiful performance in FBS and come back to FCS, the PL's problems would be solved from an expansion standpoint. Oh well....

[TheValleyRaider]

And despite the lack of recent playoff appearances, it has had more playoff success (defined as over a multiple year period so as not to offend my Colgate compatriots who can always point to that singular season of playoff success) than any other PL team.

And don't you forget it! xsmiley_wix

[Ken_Z]

Incidentally, I am sticking by my predition that I made 2 years ago...there will be football scholarships in the PL within 5 years. I have three years to go. It's moving slow now but it will pass a point where is gathers steam and there will be no stopping the snowball rolling down the hill. It makes too much sense.

If we took a "role call" tomorrow regarding schollies I would think it would look like this:

Lafayette - in favor
Colgate - in favor
Fordham - undecided (leaning in favor)
Bucknell - undecided (leaning in favor)
Lehigh - undecided (leaning against)
Holy Cross - AGAINST
Georgetown - Against
Ivy League - AGAINST

Do I have this correct?

Bucknell would not support football scholarships soleley for the sake of football scholarships. they will however support football scholarships because they are coming to grips with the fact that they are necessary to strengthen the league as a whole. we just need to get HC on board with this understanding as well. bottom line, the HC admin wants the PL and will adjust their stance when they finally acknowledge it is necessary. the world of academia just moves at a snails pace.


So we go thru this exercise again, for what - the 100th time, the 400th time? Our conclusion is always the same: there are very, very few obvious candidates. When this happens - and it will - we can be certain of two things:

1. It will be with football scholarships attached - but with a Patriot League twist.

and

2. It will be a stunner; something that leaves many of us scratching our heads.

while the idea of the PL doing something completely inexplicable wrt to scholarships sounds like the PL, remember, the reason scholarships will be approved is to strengthen the league by appealing to other schools for expansion. screwing up the aid policy defeats this objective. this time around we nmay be protected from their instincts to tinker with things too much.

[LUHawker]

And don't you forget it! xsmiley_wix

I remember corresponding with I-AA guru Otto Fad at the time and he believed that Colgate really caught "lightning in a bottle" that year and that we in the PL would never see a run like that unless the PL changed its policies (i.e., AI and scholarships) I think I've come to agree with him, so unless things change, we may always be talking about Colgate's improbable run. Good thing too, because I think Colgate is like 0-5 in all other playoff appearances (as member of the PL)

[Pard94]

I am surprised that you have Lehigh in the "leaning against" category. I confesss that I have no insight into the Administration's thoughts on this but it would strike me as inconsistent since Lehigh is still the biggest football school in the PL from an attendance standpoint. And despite the lack of recent playoff appearances, it has had more playoff success (defined as over a multiple year period so as not to offend my Colgate compatriots who can always point to that singular season of playoff success) than any other PL team. Still, even if it was leaning against, if the other 3 schools with which it is joined at the hip were moving for schollies, I've got to believe LU gets on board.

First let me start by I categorized teams largely based on what information I have gleaned from sites such as this one. Obviously this leaves a huge margin of error. I guess I put Lehigh in the "leaning against" category because i got the sense that what Lehigh thought was a pro-athletics President may have turned out to be a President who could be classified as disinterested at best (please correct me if I am wrong). And given that schollies in the PL is a "pushing a boulder uphill" kind of undertaking, I just assumed your administration might be content to leave things as they are. Particularly given the success Lehigh has enjoyed under the status quo. i hope I am wrong because I think one more President strongly in favor of scholarships would probably provide the momentum needed to get the snowball rolling.

[danefan]

Here's a question for you guys, that will help me get my head wrapped around this issue.

How much do scholarships really change the game for the PL?

My understanding is that you are basically taking the "need-based" portion out the formula right?

From the standpoint of running the program, the $$$$ shouldn't be a huge increase and the kids still has to get in above the AI right?

[Pard94]

[QUOTE=Ken_Z;1045431]Bucknell would not support football scholarships soleley for the sake of football scholarships. they will however support football scholarships because they are coming to grips with the fact that they are necessary to strengthen the league as a whole. we just need to get HC on board with this understanding as well. bottom line, the HC admin wants the PL and will adjust their stance when they finally acknowledge it is necessary. the world of academia just moves at a snails pace.QUOTE]

Oh I don't think any PL President would approve scholarships becasue they are huge fans of the game and they want to see their institution bring home a national championship. I tend to think it will happen because logic dictates it should happen. I think the case against scholarships has been exposed for what it is. At best the current system was an honest effort to attract the right kind of PL student while keeping the priorities of very reputable colleges and universities in proper alignment. Problem it has shown to be ineffective at best for all the reasons listed here and other boards ad nauseum. So what were left with is a system that not only doesn't work...it hurts us. I may be naive but I can't imagine people smart enough to lead PL schools are going to let an illogical, determental policy stay in place for the sake of maintaining the status quo.

[Go...gate]

I remember corresponding with I-AA guru Otto Fad at the time and he believed that Colgate really caught "lightning in a bottle" that year and that we in the PL would never see a run like that unless the PL changed its policies (i.e., AI and scholarships) I think I've come to agree with him, so unless things change, we may always be talking about Colgate's improbable run. Good thing too, because I think Colgate is like 0-5 in all other playoff appearances (as member of the PL)

Colgate is 4-7 all-time in playoff games since being declassified to I-AA/FCS, 3-5 since joining the PL.

1982: 1-1
1983: 0-1
1997: 0-1
1998- 0-1
1999: 0-1
2003: 3-1
2005: 0-1

[carney2]

Here's a question for you guys, that will help me get my head wrapped around this issue.

How much do scholarships really change the game for the PL?

My understanding is that you are basically taking the "need-based" portion out the formula right?

From the standpoint of running the program, the $$$$ shouldn't be a huge increase and the kids still has to get in above the AI right?

All correct. The pool of available talent wouldn't increase all that much - maybe by 1/3. The increase would come from (a) kids who do not qualify for much need based aid because their parents are too well off, and (b) kids who just want an athletic scholarship (an ego thing I guess). The pool might also grow a little if the general perception of the League's football quality is enhanced by the scholarships. Overall, gains would come from winning more head to head recruiting battles with the Ivys and by landing the more academically gifted athletes who are now being lost to scholarship leagues.

You are correct however, in your unstated "argument" that the "game" wouldn't change all that much for the Patriot League. As has oft been stated in this thread, the biggest gain would be be in attracting potential new members.

[Go...gate]

Agree that it will take football scholarships to get a Richmond, W&M, Villanova, but if scholarships are instituted to get them, I would hope they are coming as full members, not football only.

BU is WAY too big to fit the PL profile (18,500 undergrads make it almost 2.5 times bigger than next biggest enrollment Fordham 7,700).

If you're looking for a school to revive it's program, Fairfield is a much better candidate. Ranked #2 (after Villanova) in the Northeast Masters Universities according to US News so it fits academically. Is smaller than 'Nova (and BU) and closer to the PL in size (4000 undergrads).

Can't wait to hear the content of the Femovich interview.

I'm not a fan of Marist joining up, but facts are stubborn things. They are certainly moving up to a fine level academically, as the attached press release indicates.

http://www.marist.edu/publicaffairs/index.html?id=348

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh I don't think any PL President would approve scholarships becasue they are huge fans of the game and they want to see their institution bring home a national championship. I tend to think it will happen because logic dictates it should happen. I think the case against scholarships has been exposed for what it is. At best the current system was an honest effort to attract the right kind of PL student while keeping the priorities of very reputable colleges and universities in proper alignment. Problem it has shown to be ineffective at best for all the reasons listed here and other boards ad nauseum. So what were left with is a system that not only doesn't work...it hurts us. I may be naive but I can't imagine people smart enough to lead PL schools are going to let an illogical, determental policy stay in place for the sake of maintaining the status quo.

The case against scholarships IMO has been dealt a death blow by Bucknell beating Kansas in the NCAA tournament. Allowing scholarships in men's basketball didn't lead to the collapse of the Republic, and it allowed for our League to stop being kicked around as a reason for the BCS schools to hold their own basketball tournament. Once you accept that scholarships in men's basketball, lacrosse, track, etc. are OK, the question no longer is "should we have scholarships, or is it 'turning to the dark side'" but "if we have scholarships in everything else, had success and for the most part haven't become a private-school version of Ohio State, why not do it in football too?" The question has changed significantly from years ago.

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=Ken_Z;1045431]Bucknell would not support football scholarships soleley for the sake of football scholarships. they will however support football scholarships because they are coming to grips with the fact that they are necessary to strengthen the league as a whole. we just need to get HC on board with this understanding as well. bottom line, the HC admin wants the PL and will adjust their stance when they finally acknowledge it is necessary. the world of academia just moves at a snails pace.QUOTE]

Oh, I don't think any PL President would approve scholarships becasue they are huge fans of the game and they want to see their institution bring home a national championship. I tend to think it will happen because logic dictates it should happen. I think the case against scholarships has been exposed for what it is. At best the current system was an honest effort to attract the right kind of PL student while keeping the priorities of very reputable colleges and universities in proper alignment. Problem it has shown to be ineffective at best for all the reasons listed here and other boards ad nauseum. So what we're left with is a system that not only doesn't work...it hurts us. I may be naive but I can't imagine people smart enough to lead PL schools are going to let an illogical, detrimental policy stay in place for the sake of maintaining the status quo.

Make sure MPLS Bison doesn't see this post. :) xrotatehx

[TheValleyRaider]

[QUOTE=Pard94;1045458]

Make sure MPLS Bison doesn't see this post. :) xrotatehx

This thread would never end... xscanx xdizzyx

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=Go...gate;1045727]

This thread would never end... xscanx xdizzyx

You betcha! xlolx

[ngineer]

Bucknell would not support football scholarships soleley for the sake of football scholarships. they will however support football scholarships because they are coming to grips with the fact that they are necessary to strengthen the league as a whole. we just need to get HC on board with this understanding as well. bottom line, the HC admin wants the PL and will adjust their stance when they finally acknowledge it is necessary. the world of academia just moves at a snails pace.



while the idea of the PL doing something completely inexplicable wrt to scholarships sounds like the PL, remember, the reason scholarships will be approved is to strengthen the league by appealing to other schools for expansion. screwing up the aid policy defeats this objective. this time around we nmay be protected from their instincts to tinker with things too much.

Very true..and I think I get the sense Lehigh is in that camp as well, but it will take another year or two for them to figure out the mechanics.

[ngineer]

First let me start by I categorized teams largely based on what information I have gleaned from sites such as this one. Obviously this leaves a huge margin of error. I guess I put Lehigh in the "leaning against" category because i got the sense that what Lehigh thought was a pro-athletics President may have turned out to be a President who could be classified as disinterested at best (please correct me if I am wrong). And given that schollies in the PL is a "pushing a boulder uphill" kind of undertaking, I just assumed your administration might be content to leave things as they are. Particularly given the success Lehigh has enjoyed under the status quo. i hope I am wrong because I think one more President strongly in favor of scholarships would probably provide the momentum needed to get the snowball rolling.

I don't disagree with the perception, but Gast now has two years under her belt, and may (hopefully) be recognizing the importance a successful athletic program has with regard to alumni relations. Keep in mind, she was a collegiate athlete at USC (track and field) as an undergrad, so she does appreciate the role athletics can play in the educational setting.

[Seawolf97]

What about Iona? They are non scholarship in football and have a pretty rounded athletic program. Plus they are just outisde the city limits. Not sure about their academic profile.

[Go...gate]

What about Iona? They are non scholarship in football and have a pretty rounded athletic program. Plus they are just outisde the city limits. Not sure about their academic profile.


Not a good fit.

[Go...gate]

Hey LFN, any luck with the Femovich interview on the blog?

[CrusaderBob]

Or when do you anticipate it being on CSN?