1-AA Mockery

[bluehenbillk]

http://newsok.com/article/3275483

http://newsok.com/article/3275480

For those of you that get fired up about these articles, here's 2 doozies for ya...

[Ronbo]

And why wouldn't the FCS games rank as the worst Big 12 games of the year? We rank the Division II games as our worst of the year. Tit for tat. Really, think about it, other than last years App/Mich game FCS usually gets trounced by the BCS.

[andy7171]

With the exception of saying SDSU is in the Great West and the slights to UMAss and EWU, I see nothing insulting. I'm with Ronbo, we do the same to D.II games. Remind me why the Pioneer League gets ragged on?

[JMU1992]

Other than getting some facts wrong, he says Colorado lost to Montana in 2006 and calls Northwestern St. "NW Louisianna", I don't see anything too terribly insulting.

[andy7171]

Other than getting some facts wrong, he says Colorado lost to Montana in 2006 and calls Northwestern St. "NW Louisianna", I don't see anything too terribly insulting.

Yeah, he says Buffs lost to Montana in '06 and then a couple lines down say they lost to Montana St in '06.

Rough year for Colorado!

[DetroitFlyer]

With the exception of saying SDSU is in the Great West and the slights to UMAss and EWU, I see nothing insulting. I'm with Ronbo, we do the same to D.II games. Remind me why the Pioneer League gets ragged on?

Not all PFL teams are Division II/III/NAIA happy. Dayton is playing ONE game in a 12 game schedule against a Division II team. It just happens to be the exact same team that Youngstown State is playing this season as well....

[furman94]

Eastern Washington at Texas Tech (Aug. 30): Tech might score 100 against one of these I-AA foes.


EWU, please make us proud!

[Houndawg]

And why wouldn't the FCS games rank as the worst Big 12 games of the year? We rank the Division II games as our worst of the year. Tit for tat. Really, think about it, other than last years App/Mich game FCS usually gets trounced by the BCS.

SIU beat NIU last year and Indiana the year before that.

[patssle]

FCS has no buisness playing the Big 12 (with the exception of the couple cellar dwellars).

SHSU playing Kansas is just plain stupid.

[appmaj]

There are no FCS teams in Oklahoma maybe thats why they don't have any love for us.
Plus Oklahoma can do no wrong in football in Oklahoma.



I don't see that OU's is any better than Nebraska's
Oklahoma: *Chattanooga (2-9), Cincinnati (10-3), at Washington (4-9), TCU (8-5)
Nebraska: Western Michigan (5-7), San Jose State (5-7), New Mexico State (4-9), Virginia Tech (11-3)

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

With the exception of saying SDSU is in the Great West and the slights to UMAss and EWU, I see nothing insulting. I'm with Ronbo, we do the same to D.II games. Remind me why the Pioneer League gets ragged on?

ACtually, we don't do that about DII games. Most of us who are at least somewhat familiar with both the FCS and the FBS know the gap between the FBS and the FCS is less than the gap between the FCS and DII.

SDSU should be insulted. They may be the best OOC team on ISU's OOC schedule.

[Syntax Error]

1-AA Mockeryat least the writer spells I-AA correctly xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FCS has no buisness playing the Big 12 (with the exception of the couple cellar dwellars).

SHSU playing Kansas is just plain stupid.

Montana State beat Colorado in 2006 when it was far from clear they were going to be a cellar-dweller....

[813Jag]

Montana State beat Colorado in 2006 when it was far from clear they were going to be a cellar-dweller....
Montana State or Colorado? Because that Buffalo team lost 6 straight on their way to a 2-10 season.

[elcid96]

ACtually, we don't do that about DII games. Most of us who are at least somewhat familiar with both the FCS and the FBS know the gap between the FBS and the FCS is less than the gap between the FCS and DII.

SDSU should be insulted. They may be the best OOC team on ISU's OOC schedule.

This is point worth expanding upon. Last year the CAA and SOCON were ranked higher than 1A(FBS) conferences in the final 2007 football ratings by Jeff Sagarin in USATODAY. In fact only 3 non-BCS conferences ranked higher than the SOCON. So why is it less prestigious for a school to schedule App State than Troy? FCS fans should be upset.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc07.htm

Even if you compare BCS to FCS, then you would have to agree that the gap is closer than FCS vs DII.

1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 81.99 81.83 ( 1) 12
2 PAC-10 (A) = 79.47 79.63 ( 2) 10
3 BIG 12 (A) = 78.62 78.35 ( 3) 12
4 BIG EAST (A) = 77.46 77.12 ( 4) 8
5 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 75.21 74.98 ( 5) 12
6 BIG TEN (A) = 74.63 74.17 ( 6) 11
7 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 70.95 70.84 ( 7) 9
8 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 61.74 61.79 ( 8) 4
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 61.29 61.72 ( 9) 9
10 SOUTHERN (AA)= 60.50 59.92 ( 11) 8xrulesx
11 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 59.54 60.06 ( 10) 12
12 COLONIAL (AA)= 59.52 59.33 ( 12) 12xrulesx
13 SUN BELT (A) = 59.19 59.25 ( 13) 8
14 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 58.37 58.51 ( 14) 13

[DrG]

It doesn't bother me that much. I'm used to it. Although I kinda wish we'd avoid scheduling Top Ten FBS schools and instead play lower rung programs where we could be a little competitive (as we have shown with Army, Navy and even BC last year).

[Ronbo]

ACtually, we don't do that about DII games. Most of us who are at least somewhat familiar with both the FCS and the FBS know the gap between the FBS and the FCS is less than the gap between the FCS and DII.

SDSU should be insulted. They may be the best OOC team on ISU's OOC schedule.

I disagree. Considering teams top to bottom in DII, FCS, FBS Mid Majors, and the BCS.

Difference between DII and FCS - small to medium gap.
Difference between FCS and Mid Major FBS - small to medium gap.

Difference between BCS and FCS - large gap.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I disagree. Considering teams top to bottom in DII, FCS, FBS Mid Majors, and the BCS.

Difference between upper tier DII and upper tier FCS - very little
Difference between upper tier FCS and lower tier DII - medium
Difference between FCS and Mid Major FBS - very little (sorry, but look at how they match up with upper tier FCS teams, -McNeese versus ULL and NDSU versus Central Michigan come to mind)

Difference between BCS and upper tier FCS - medium, but less than difference between upper tier FCS and lower tier DII.

Fixed it

[smallcollegefbfan]

Not all PFL teams are Division II/III/NAIA happy. Dayton is playing ONE game in a 12 game schedule against a Division II team. It just happens to be the exact same team that Youngstown State is playing this season as well....

Even the top 2-3 D2 teams are sometimes top 25 FCS caliber and with the exception of San Diego the last couple years and Dayton from last year, who from the PFL would be a legit top 25 FCS team week in and week out? Most of the teams are D2 caliber overall.

There are certainly 5-6 great players in the PFL but overall I'm not sure the league champion would win the D2 National Title. GVSU would probably win the PFL year in and year out, to be honest. Not saying that is a bad thing just pointing out the past.

[smallcollegefbfan]

ACtually, we don't do that about DII games. Most of us who are at least somewhat familiar with both the FCS and the FBS know the gap between the FBS and the FCS is less than the gap between the FCS and DII.

SDSU should be insulted. They may be the best OOC team on ISU's OOC schedule.

The gap between GVSU and the teams ranked 15-25 in the FCS would surprise you. GVSU could win a couple FCS leagues right now. It is a big gap between both. The top FBS team would beat App by 30-35 but I don't think App would beat GVSU or Valdosta by more than 25. Remember they have beat unranked D2 teams like Lenoir Rhyne by just 35 or 40 and GVSU and Valdosta would beat them by 20-25 themselves.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

"Texas Tech quarterback Graham Harrell and the Red Raiders have one of weakest non-conference schedules in the Big 12."

I suppose that means TT is going to look really terrible when either Eastern or Umass pulls off or comes really close to an upset. Tech won't score more than 60 on either of us.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Montana State or Colorado? Because that Buffalo team lost 6 straight on their way to a 2-10 season.

I'm just sayin', going into that game Montana State was seen as an easy win for Colorado, how I-AA teams were so vastly inferior to the Big XII, etc. etc. going into that year.

Anyone can look at what happened next and say "wow, they only beat a horrible 2-10 team". But context is important. Colorado was seen as a member of college football "elite" that had been involved in great games and had great teams.

The bigger point is really: saying FCS has no business playing Big XII teams is just stupid. And by adding "with the exception of a few cellar dwellers", I don't think anyone thought in 2006 going into that game Colorado would be a "cellar dweller". How, exactly, is one to know going into the year if a team is a cellar-dweller or not?

[AppAlum]

The gap between GVSU and the teams ranked 15-25 in the FCS would surprise you. GVSU could win a couple FCS leagues right now. It is a big gap between both. The top FBS team would beat App by 30-35 but I don't think App would beat GVSU or Valdosta by more than 25. Remember they have beat unranked D2 teams like Lenoir Rhyne by just 35 or 40 and GVSU and Valdosta would beat them by 20-25 themselves.

So using your logic a top FBS team with 85 scholarships will beat App by 35 or 40 points? Which is weird seeing how their margin of defeat has never been over 35 since 2005: The point diff has been (28)Kansas, (24)LSU, (13)NC State , and (-2)Mich)

So beating lenoir Rhyne by 41 is not impressive enough? When do you think the second team offense and defense went in? When you get that much of a lead does it matter? So because of that you assume App would lose to GVSU or Valdosta by 3 TD's? That is a stretch.

[g-webb1994]

Appy would wipe the field with any top 10 D-2 school.

[putter]

First he said colorado was upset by Montana and then he said colorado was upset by Montana St. Glad he gave credit to both Montana schools for beating the Buffs.....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Montana State beat Colorado in 2006 when it was far from clear they were going to be a cellar-dweller....


I'm just sayin', going into that game Montana State was seen as an easy win for Colorado, how I-AA teams were so vastly inferior to the Big XII, etc. etc. going into that year.




First he said colorado was upset by Montana and then he said colorado was upset by Montana St. Glad he gave credit to both Montana schools for beating the Buffs.....

xconfusedx

[patssle]

I don't think anyone thought in 2006 going into that game Colorado would be a "cellar dweller".

I'm not singling out the Colorado game of 2006. Just in general, playing upper Big 12 teams is ridiculous.


How, exactly, is one to know going into the year if a team is a cellar-dweller or not?

You don't. But you do know who are the general Big 12 powers and who arn't.

[BisonBacker]

The gap between GVSU and the teams ranked 15-25 in the FCS would surprise you. GVSU could win a couple FCS leagues right now. It is a big gap between both. The top FBS team would beat App by 30-35 but I don't think App would beat GVSU or Valdosta by more than 25. Remember they have beat unranked D2 teams like Lenoir Rhyne by just 35 or 40 and GVSU and Valdosta would beat them by 20-25 themselves.

The problem I have with this statement is this. DII for quite a few years now has been very watered down. To be able to compare how these teams would do in the FCS is extremely hard. I watched GVSU and UND last year and the game was one of the sloppiest played games I've seen in many many years. I really expected much more. The field conditions and weather conditions didn't merit a poorly played game. I could have understood it had the weather been a factor but it wasn't. Now I'm not trying to knock either of the two teams that played in that game either but anyone who saw it would have to say (if they gave a unbiased and fair review of the game) it was a poorly played game. The bottom feeders in FCS would surely have a hard time with them no doubt but the top level teams in FCS if they played even an average game I would say would win 95% of the games against them.
I know many will point to the UND/UNI game last year but I'd be interested to hear an objective opinion from a UNI fan who saw the game. UNI definetly didn't play a good game and I really believe had UNI played even an average game they would have won that game. Just my opinion but again it's no different then comparing FBS to FCS. Top level teams in the FBS are going to normally beat FCS teams. Michigan didn't play a great game last year, not to take away from App but if the game was played again who would you put your money on? I'd bet it would be on Michigan. This year LSU will be a good example, I'll be rooting for App no doubt but I'm not expecting the same results that App had last year with Michigan. But back on point, DII is watered down and to try to compare those teams and say they could beat many of the top FCS teams I believe is wrong. Won't happen very often and all the conditions have to be just right for it to happen.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You don't. But you do know who are the general Big 12 powers and who arn't.

You mean... like.... Colorado? xnutsx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

My bad. I meant to say the gap between the FCS and DII was less than that of the top FCS teams and the top FBS teams. That's why I said that we generally do not view DII teams in the same way that FBS teams view FCS teams.

[patssle]

You mean... like.... Colorado? xnutsx

Colorado is no Big 12 power. They have 1 title this decade (and they didn't even play OU or Texas Tech that year), and 1 bowl win...vs Texas-El Paso. 4 winning seasons of the past 8. All while being in the northern weaker division of the Big 12.

They ain't your 90's Colorado.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Colorado is no Big 12 power. They have 1 title this decade (and they didn't even play OU or Texas Tech that year), and 1 bowl win...vs Texas-El Paso. 4 winning seasons of the past 8. All while being in the northern weaker division of the Big 12.

They ain't your 90's Colorado.

You make them out as if they're Rice or something. How can you turn around and then not call them a Big XII power?

They may in the weaker north, but they won the Big XII North four times this decade. National champions in the 1990s, Big XII North champs four times this decade. But not a Big XII "power". Ooo-kay. xrolleyesx

[patssle]

You make them out as if they're Rice or something. How can you turn around and then not call them a Big XII power?

They may in the weaker north, but they won the Big XII North four times this decade. National champions in the 1990s, Big XII North champs four times this decade. But not a Big XII "power". Ooo-kay. xrolleyesx

They were National Champions before the Big 12 even existed...Ooo-kay? xlolx

Look up the strength of the Big 12 North Division.

[Houndawg]

The top FBS team would beat App by 30-35 but I don't think App would beat GVSU or Valdosta by more than 25.

Disagree. They beat Delaware by 24.

[JohnStOnge]

We rank the Division II games as our worst of the year. .

I don't. I look at the teams involved. Like, for instance, I think Delta State at McNeese State is an interesting game. Same with Central Washington vs. Montana. I fully recognize that top D-II schools can beat top FCS schools. It's happened pretty routinely.

Similarly, I think games like App State vs. LSU are very interesting. Not that I expect App to win. But, to me, a game between a top FCS like App and a team like LSU is a whole lot more interesting than a game between, say, Troy and LSU. To me, it's always interesting to see how a top team from a lower level will do against a team from a higher level.

[JohnStOnge]

. Most of us who are at least somewhat familiar with both the FCS and the FBS know the gap between the FBS and the FCS is less than the gap between the FCS and DII..

Did you mistype? There have been many, many cases in which top 25 I-AA/FCS teams have been beaten by top D-II teams. There has even been a case in which the I-AA national champ was beaten by a D-II team. There has only been one case...App State over Michigan in 2007...in which a I-AA/FCS team beat a top 25 I-A/FBS.

The gap between the top of I-A/FBS and the top of I-AA/FCS is and always had been MUCH larger than the gap between the top of D-II and the top of I-AA/FCS.

[JohnStOnge]

Disagree. They beat Delaware by 24.

In 1980, I-AA champ Boise State lost during the regular season to D-II national champ Cal Poly by 23-20. In 1994, I-AA champ Youngstown State beat D-II national champ North Alabama by 17-14. That was an undefeated Youngstown State team (14-0-1).

In 1993, I-AA semifinalist Florida Atlantic was beaten 45-17 by D-II Valdosta State. Valdosta State was beaten in the second round of the D-II playoffs.

Historically, there has not been nearly as much difference between the top of D-II and the top of I-AA/FCS as there has been between the top of I-AA/FCS and the top of I-A/FCS. Remember, Appalachian State's win over Michigan was the first ever win by a I-AA/FCS over a team that finished in the I-A/FBS top 25. It was the first win ever by a I-AA/FCS over a BCS league team that finished with a winning record. And it was only the second win ever by a I-AA/FCS team over a team from a program now in the BCS leagues that finished with a winning record.

[JayJ79]

FCS has no buisness playing the Big 12 (with the exception of the couple cellar dwellars).

SHSU playing Kansas is just plain stupid.

Sure they have business: it's called $$$$$$. And an upset isn't unheard of...

[CopperCat]

They were National Champions before the Big 12 even existed...Ooo-kay? xlolx

Look up the strength of the Big 12 North Division.

I can't believe nobody has bit on this one, so I did a VERY limited search, and found the following:

Kansas, Missouri, and K-State are all in the Big XII North. All have been to a BCS game recently. Missouri was on play away from the Nat'l Championship, and Kansas came very close as well. K-State had an off year last year, but still managed to beat a solid Texas team (which was ranked #7 at the time). Don't generalize the Big XII North as being weak, cuz it ain't true.

Just a question: how many teams from the Big XII has SHSU beaten recently?xeyebrowx

[dlsiouxfan]

The problem I have with this statement is this. DII for quite a few years now has been very watered down. To be able to compare how these teams would do in the FCS is extremely hard. I watched GVSU and UND last year and the game was one of the sloppiest played games I've seen in many many years. I really expected much more. The field conditions and weather conditions didn't merit a poorly played game. I could have understood it had the weather been a factor but it wasn't. Now I'm not trying to knock either of the two teams that played in that game either but anyone who saw it would have to say (if they gave a unbiased and fair review of the game) it was a poorly played game. The bottom feeders in FCS would surely have a hard time with them no doubt but the top level teams in FCS if they played even an average game I would say would win 95% of the games against them.
I know many will point to the UND/UNI game last year but I'd be interested to hear an objective opinion from a UNI fan who saw the game. UNI definetly didn't play a good game and I really believe had UNI played even an average game they would have won that game. Just my opinion but again it's no different then comparing FBS to FCS. Top level teams in the FBS are going to normally beat FCS teams. Michigan didn't play a great game last year, not to take away from App but if the game was played again who would you put your money on? I'd bet it would be on Michigan. This year LSU will be a good example, I'll be rooting for App no doubt but I'm not expecting the same results that App had last year with Michigan. But back on point, DII is watered down and to try to compare those teams and say they could beat many of the top FCS teams I believe is wrong. Won't happen very often and all the conditions have to be just right for it to happen.

UND didn't exactly play their best game against Northern Iowa either. After all we did have 5 turnovers 2 of which occurred inside Northern Iowa's 10 yard line. Take away those and it probably would have been a blow out.

[cats2506]

patssle

Montana St. has played the Big XII pretty tough the last 3 years.

2005 Montana State 10 Oklahoma St. 15
The game was still up for grabs until late in the 4th qtr

2006 Montana State 19 Colorado 10

2007 Montana St. 7 Texas A&M 38
First game under a new coach that had 2 months to get ready, Cats statisticaly out perfoformed A&M in almost every catagory except the score. I believe we were in the redzone 7 times without scoring.

I dont bring this up just to show what Mt St has done but I believe that the upper half of the BSC could all play the Big XII tough.