A moronic column from a Portland St. hack

[henfan]

More like mis-understanding the gap. Poor kid.


Understanding the gap
Big Sky isn’t fully D 1 and that’s fine
Owen Smith
PSU Daily Vanguard
27 September 2005

Go to PGE Park Saturdays in the next two months and you will see your
PSU Vikings slogging their way through another tough football season
against fellow Big Sky Conference opponents. If through a miracle or other
act of God the Vikings make the playoffs, they’d be competing for the D
1-AA crown (the fact that there are playoffs at all is the first clue).
Yet when the pigskin is retired in favor of hoops season, a Big Sky
tourney win would mean a trip to the NCAA tourney and a taste of March
Madness.

Why does PSU play Division 1-AA football when every other sport
competes at the Division 1 level? The easy answer is because the Big Sky is bush league and Portland State isn’t good enough to be fully D 1. That’s
not fair to the league or the school. The football program is
representative of a larger issue. The smart answer has to do with saving money and adding flexibility, not to mention the pressure every athletic
program feels to field competitive teams.

More of this mindless drivel at:
http://www.dailyvanguard.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/09/27/43391492bd7bc

[PMB4Life]

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE????

[putter]

The problem is that Portland St fans (the true ones don't post this stuff) see Oregon and Oregon St and think that the only reason for living is to be DI-A. The program is just starting to be very competitive at the I-AA level and now it is not good enough. This person needs to receive some e-mails.

[DemiGS]

It's very strange when I hear people talk down about the playoff system. I know this isn't the major gripe with this article, but it’s a theme I've heard a few times lately amongst college football fans in general. If a person is a true fan of the game, then they should demand a playoff system to arrive at a true national champion. I can't help but roll my eyes when I hear a div 1A fan talk about their team's chance to "win"(read: be awarded) the national title. It would be incredibly depressing to be a fan of a 1A team. Even if you are Georgia, or Auburn, or any number of good teams, after the season, you will play only one additional game against an arbitrarily assigned opponent and the outcome means noting more then bragging rights. The winner is done for the season just like the loser.
I always hear Money as the reason why the NCAA insists on the bowl system for 1A, but I don't understand that argument. Why are bowls more exciting then playoff games? Wouldn't 16 or 32 playoff games generate just as much if not more interest then 30 bowls? I just can't believe the "American Standard Swirlly bowl" is more exciting then even a first round winner take all playoff game.

[IaaScribe]

Not excusing anything ... but this is a college newspaper. Having seen the Vanguard in my time in the Big Sky, I'd suggest y'all take anything written in it with a gigantic ball of salt, not just a grain.

[Baltimore Hen]

I responded to the article. I hope it does not get deleted. I was not very nice to Mr. (loosely) Smith.

[WhereDoITypeMyUsername?]

I dunno, I sorta took it another way. I think a lot of people got snookered by the guy's poor syntax and hamfisted writing style. Must be a journalism major.

When he says, "The easy answer is because the Big Sky is bush league and Portland State isn’t good enough to be fully D 1", I think he's saying it's easy but foolish to make that assumption, and sorta pointing out that it's a common misconception. Hell, the very next sentence basically states that it's an incorrect, unfair assumption.

If you read it from the standpoint that he's trying to explain why it's an incorrect assumption, it's actually not too bad.

[foghorn]

:cool: The only people who would talk down a playoff system are those whose teams would never be good enough to qualify. Their so-called goal of a 'bowl' game is their way of rationalizing even a mediocre season as a success, since about 1/2 the teams qualify for some sort of 'bowl' game. I've heard followers of Maryland, Pitt, Penn St., etc. make comments such as: " If we win this one, we're bowl bound baby"! Big f'n deal, where's that Weedeater Bowl this year?
Most true college football fans that I know are clamoring for a playoff system in Div. I-A much as we have in I-AA. If that happens, the BCS teams will reign with the so-called 'mid-majors' getting shut out and settling for another Weedeater Bowl. The name of the game is 'MONEY' and the mid-majors aren't gonna share in the dough. These 'mid-majors' know it, but will rationalize their status because THEY are Div. I in their minds. To them the A and AA designation is dropped because they want to be set apart from the lowly I-AA's and thought of in the same vein as the BCS schools. If you're not a BCS team, no application for playoffs wanted, but boy do we have a nice 'bowl game' for you. Nothing more than a bone to keep them happy. I suggest a BCS designation and a Div. I designation, which would include 'mi-major' I-A's and current scholarship I-AA's. Go Hens!

[putter]

I look at Boise St, not Idaho anymore as that ship has left the port. Last year they are unbeaten, ranked, almost top 10 and saying they belong with the big dogs yet still left out of the BCS. They play Georgia this year and get manhandled therefore insuring that voters continue to believe that they can go 12-0 every year and not be deserving of hanging with the BCS. Something to shoot for.

[JALMOND]

You all are digging to far down for me. The only Oregon daily I trust for college athletics is the Oregonian and, even though they are pro-Pac10 (and anti everything else including the Big Sky), they will still do a fair job reporting on Portland State and the Big Sky, especially Montana for some reason. Other Portland papers (the Trib, Vanguard, etc.) I don't even use to line my cat's litter box.

[89Hen]

"If through a miracle or other act of God the Vikings make the playoffs, they’d be competing for the D 1-AA crown (the fact that there are playoffs at all is the first clue). Yet when the pigskin is retired in favor of hoops season, a Big Sky tourney win would mean a trip to the NCAA tourney and a taste of March Madness."

You mean like in 1999? When exactly have the Vikings EVER played in the men's bball tourney? :rolleyes:

[TigerFan17]

Wait till Ralph gets ahold of this.... :eek:

[TigerFan17]

Sent my feedback. Can't believe the school newspaper would let something like this be published. Thats pretty much a slap in the football team's face.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

"If through a miracle or other act of God the Vikings make the playoffs, they’d be competing for the D 1-AA crown (the fact that there are playoffs at all is the first clue). Yet when the pigskin is retired in favor of hoops season, a Big Sky tourney win would mean a trip to the NCAA tourney and a taste of March Madness."

You mean like in 1999? When exactly have the Vikings EVER played in the men's bball tourney? :rolleyes:


I believe Portland State got blasted by Villanova in the opening round of the NCAA tourney in 1997. I think that was the year 'Nova started the year ranked #2 with frosh Tim Thomas and proceded to sleepwalk through the season. 'Nova lost to Louisville in the 2nd roud i believe.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I believe Portland State got blasted by Villanova in the opening round of the NCAA tourney in 1997. I think that was the year 'Nova started the year ranked #2 with frosh Tim Thomas and proceded to sleepwalk through the season. 'Nova lost to Louisville in the 2nd roud i believe.

My bad, i guess that was just Portland who made it that year.

[grizbeer]

"If through a miracle or other act of God the Vikings make the playoffs, they’d be competing for the D 1-AA crown (the fact that there are playoffs at all is the first clue). Yet when the pigskin is retired in favor of hoops season, a Big Sky tourney win would mean a trip to the NCAA tourney and a taste of March Madness."

You mean like in 1999? When exactly have the Vikings EVER played in the men's bball tourney? :rolleyes:
I don't know why you would have a problem with this statement, as it is correct - he doesn't say PSU will win the tourney, but if they do win it they will be in the NCAA Tournament due the the BSC autobid. The same is true if PSU win the BSC in football, of course, but the implication is that the auto bid to the I-AA football tournament is less prestiges than the autobid to March Madness, because, for example, the PAC 10 Champion will be in March Madness but not the I-AA tournament.

I might be reading this different than the rest of you, but I don't see this as a slam on I-AA or the BSC, but rather a defense of why PSU is at the I-AA level instead of in the WAC for football. And ultimately the defense he gives for being at this level is the same we all use - Money. Yes he makes some errors in nomenclature and sub division I thing is a mistake, but to the people in Oregon (and really anywhere outside of a I-AA, they know exactly what he is saying.

[henfan]

Grizbeer, for pity sakes, the kid is writing for the school newspaper at a university that sponsors I-AA football, not the entire State of Oregon. You'd think he and his editor would take a few moments to proof the article before publishing it. Accuracy plays a big role in any journalist's attempt at educating and informing. An article as poorly written and edited and wrong-headed as this one can neither inform nor educate.

Even if PSU reclassified it's football program as I-A, they'd still wouldn't likely be a hot candidate for any I-A conference. Would the extra 'A' added to their football program suddenly solidify PSU as a more legit Division I school? No, of course not. The matter's a lot more complex than just throwing money at the football program.

[grizbeer]

The way I read it is he is saying they don't have any chance to make the football playoffs but they have a chance to make the basketball playoffs. He obviously doesn't fact check because they have made the football playoffs and never made the basketball playoffs. He should have switched the two.
PSU won the regular season BSC title last year and hosted the BSC tourney, which did generate a fair amount of excitement in the city until PSU lost in the semi to Weber State. I think he is commenting on the current enthusiasm towards the mens bb team, and lack of confidence in the football team. IMO opinion I think he is off base here, because I think the FB team is better than he thinks and the bb team won't repeat last years success.


He called the BSC bush league, that's not a slam??he did say the BSC in Bush league, but read in context he said that was the Easy answer, but the real answer is cost savings. that is like someone asking what happened to EWU and responding the easy answer is their O-Line sucks, but really they suffered some injuries to the O-line and have some young guys still learning. In other words he is saying the obvious answer people will throw around is that the BSC is bush league, but that isn't correct, the real answer is cost savings.


He completely messed up the nomenclature and classification stuff. COMPLETELY! If people in Oregon, and I entirely doubt this, understand what he is saying with all his mistakes then they need to be presented with the facts.
We will probably just have to disagree with how important this is. IMO to virtually everyone outside of the I-AA world and the NCAA offices in football D-IA is d-1, and everything else is sub-d-1, and this includes virtually every columnist in every major newspaper I have ever seen. you can keep trying to educate them Ralph, but I imagine they will see it more as a semantic annoyance (especially D-I vs D-1) than an educating, and write it off to the I-AA equivalent of short man's disease. personally I don't care if they call teams in the BSC 1-aa, sub d1 or I-AA, as long as they are talking about us.

[grizbeer]

Grizbeer, for pity sakes, the kid is writing for the school newspaper at a university that sponsors I-AA football, not the entire State of Oregon. You'd think he and his editor would take a few moments to proof the article before publishing it. Accuracy plays a big role in any journalist's attempt at educating and informing. An article as poorly written and edited and wrong-headed as this one can neither inform nor educate.

Even if PSU reclassified it's football program as I-A, they'd still wouldn't likely be a hot candidate for any I-A conference. Would the extra 'A' added to their football program suddenly solidify PSU as a more legit Division I school? No, of course not. The matter's a lot more complex than just throwing money at the football program.I'm not going to defend his writing style, just saying I think people missed the point of what he was trying to say - I thought he was responding to criticism of PSU athletics, and defending PSU staying I-AA in football.

As far as being more legit as a I-A than I-AA, I would definitely say that as a member of the WAC PSU would receive better media coverage and their games would be better attended than they get as a I-AA team. As a Sunbelt team it would be a step backwards, but as a WAC member it would be a whole new ball game for PSU athletics. As a WAC member they could get annual contests with UO/OSU/UW or WSU, games that would get the locals in Portland excited. I'm not saying PSU would be better off as a I-A doormat in the WAC, but there is no doubt they would get more recognition and support in the Portland Media than as a I-A WAC doormat than as a I-AA national champion.

Linfield, a D-III team in the Portland area has won several National championships and get's more media attention than PSU, but still doesn't rate very high on the care about meter for the Oregon public or media.

[IaaScribe]

You think this is bad, you oughta read what some college papers write about safe and smart ways to have anal sex. That was Cornell's paper, I believe.

All I'm saying is that student papers are not bastions of journalism (maybe with the exceptions of Missouri and Syracuse, which have very well done student dailies). Hell, my student paper at Va. Tech nearly got shut down because some copy editor thought it would be fun to identify the school's vice president as the director of buttlicking in a pull quote. He was not amused.

All I'm saying is that there are better places to spew your venom than on some idiot who works at a college rag, and a really bad one at that.

[grizbeer]

That may be what you see but that is not correct. I would say it is just the opposite. Virtually every columnist in every major newspaper gets the roman numeral and classification correct. They know that D-I has I-A and I-AA. Check it out. Those that don't should be posted here so we can let them know. You read the Missoulian?

Big Sky focus: Bengals shake off doubters
By RIAL CUMMINGS of the Missoulian
... The suspensions appeared to unify the Bengals (3-1, 1-0 Big Sky), who were picked sixth in the Big Sky but have lost only at Division I-A Kentucky. ...
Well, of course the Missoulian is located in Missoula, which has a I-AA team that Rial covers, so you would expect to get that right, and they are generally notes as one of the best newspapers covering I-AA football (although there was this little error that SDSU fans probably didn't appreciate:

Montana plays host to Division II South Dakota State on Saturday. http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2005/09/13/sports/griz/griz84.txt so I guess they are not perfect either. In any event I would not consider the Missoulian to be a major newspaper in a major metropolitan area, but you are probably right, the newspapers usually get I vs 1 correct, but I don't think I remember seeing a I-A team referred to as I-A, just as division I, although of course this is technically incorrect.

[grizbeer]

Seriously, is this what you use as a reason for Montana going I-A? It would be better "as a I-A WAC doormat than as a I-AA national champion" ?? Better at losing money maybe... Not trying to pick a fight but getting UO/OSU/UW or WSU to come to PSU is unlikely even if they were magically I-A.
Of course I am not arguing about Montana going to I-A, I am talking about Portland State. the situation in Montana is different than it is in Portland. Montana get's all the media attention it could ask for in the local press. The paper covers the team virtually every day, and the news stations regularly report on the team and there is no I-A teams close by that take all the attention away. The Griz and bobcats are the biggest thing in Montana, and the teams (especially the Griz) are well supported by fans and corporations (advertising).

The situation couldn't be more different in Portland. Missoula is a minor league city, Portland is a major league city, and it shows up in fan and media interest for all sports.

edit - forgot to address the home game point.
As far as a home game vs OSU, UO, WSU or UW, I think i said an annual game, not a home game, but OSU did play at Boise State, and WSU did play at Nevada, and an occasional chance for the people in Portland to see the Beavers play there would be a great boost for PSU and the Beaver's Portland fans. Also remember that Idaho "hosted" WSU at Martin Stadium a few times, although it is more a stretch to say PSU could host OSU in Corvallis.

[grizbeer]

I forgot if you were a Griz-to-I-A proponent or not.Right now I don't see any compelling reason for the Griz to go I-A. If Montana decides to go I-A I am for it, if they decide to stay I-AA I am for that as well. I-AA seems to the best fit for the Griz at this point.

[TigerFan17]

I don't know why you would have a problem with this statement, as it is correct - he doesn't say PSU will win the tourney, but if they do win it they will be in the NCAA Tournament due the the BSC autobid. The same is true if PSU win the BSC in football, of course, but the implication is that the auto bid to the I-AA football tournament is less prestiges than the autobid to March Madness, because, for example, the PAC 10 Champion will be in March Madness but not the I-AA tournament.

I might be reading this different than the rest of you, but I don't see this as a slam on I-AA or the BSC, but rather a defense of why PSU is at the I-AA level instead of in the WAC for football. And ultimately the defense he gives for being at this level is the same we all use - Money. Yes he makes some errors in nomenclature and sub division I thing is a mistake, but to the people in Oregon (and really anywhere outside of a I-AA, they know exactly what he is saying.


I have a problem with it because it clearly is condescending towards I-AA football. What he is basically saying, as I understand, is that when they win the BSC bball title they get to play for a national championship, but if they excel in football and make it to the playoffs...the playoffs don't mean anything. It is pretty typical of someone who has no idea what they are talking about in college sports, they just see whats on the radar: Division I basketball and Division I-A football...he is basically saying, to me, that because they aren't going to get a bowl bid, then they aren't worth a damn.

[89Hen]

the implication is that the auto bid to the I-AA football tournament is less prestiges than the autobid to March Madness
THAT is the problem I have with his statements. I am 10x more excited when the UD football team makes the playoffs compared to bball making the tourney (of course I'd like to have both). Making March Madness is the end of the joy, making the playoffs is only the beginning of the journey. :nod:

[Mr. C]

I couldn't let this clown get away with this without responding, so here is what I wrote to the newspaper:

Mr. Smith needs to go back to J School and learn some basic facts about his subject before writing such a misinformed column. Fact No. 1: Portland State IS a Division I school in football. Division I-AA is a cost-containment sub-division where schools fund up to 63 scholarship equivalencies. Division I-A schools are allowed 85 scholarships. Division II institutions may offer up to 36. Having 22 more scholarships wouldn't make PSU any more of a Division I school than it already is and wouldn't put it on par with the USCs or Oklahomas of the world. By the way, if PSU and the rest of the Big Sky are so Bush League, what does that say for the Pac-10. Did Mr. Smith miss that PSU beat UC Davis a week before UCD beat Stanford? Fact No. 2: The Vikings have a very good chance of making the I-AA playoffs this season. They are just as capable, based on results so far this season, as Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, or Idaho State in what should be a wide-open Big Sky Conference race. Fact No. 3: The I-AA playoffs are the model which I-A should be using to crown a REAL national champion. If Mr. Smith had ever been to a I-AA playoff game, or the title game in Chattanooga, Tenn. (I've attended the last four national championship games), he might have a clue about how exciting they can be. Fact No. 4: The Big Sky Conference is far from Bush League. Since 2000, the league has had a team in the national championship game three times and won the title in 2001. Maybe the real Bush Leaguer here is Mr. Smith.

[GSUISBACK]

NOTE: This article has been edited from it's original format. Mr. Ralph Wallace of College Sporting News, Inc. which operates the website http://www.I-AA.org pointed out that the NCAA uses roman numerals, not arabic in division classification. Mr. Wallace also points out that PSU is fully division I, as the designations of A, AA and AAA apply only to football. Readers who are interested in more information are referred to http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=44189 for more information. Thank you to Mr. Wallace, we regret any confusion our mistakes may have caused.



:D :D :D

[UAalum72]

That may be what you see but that is not correct. I would say it is just the opposite. Virtually every columnist in every major newspaper gets the roman numeral and classification correct. They know that D-I has I-A and I-AA. Check it out. Those that don't should be posted here so we can let them know.
The Boston Globe consistently uses '1-AA' in their football coverage.

I'd suggest we should always refer to I-A as a subdivision, at least as often as I-AA - you don't want to imply that a 'sub' division is ranked inferior to Division I.

[Baltimore Hen]

he did say the BSC in Bush league, but read in context he said that was the Easy answer, but the real answer is cost savings. that is like someone asking what happened to EWU and responding the easy answer is their O-Line sucks, but really they suffered some injuries to the O-line and have some young guys still learning. In other words he is saying the obvious answer people will throw around is that the BSC is bush league, but that isn't correct, the real answer is cost savings.

My understanding of Bush league is that it is cheap, dirty underhanded, not worthy of respect. Regardless of the intent, the term bush league is not appropriate here. plain and simple.
:deadhorse

[tanagriz]

I think it's interesting that they say no feedback has been posted for that article. I know that I, for one, immediately sent comments on the article and I'm pretty sure a lot of you here did as well.

[AZGrizFan]

I forgot if you were a Griz-to-I-A proponent or not. Still, the argument that it would be better "as a I-A WAC doormat than as a I-AA national champion" doesn't wash with me (you probably already got that). Plus, PSU would have to win the title and go I-A to find out. Money-wise it would be better to be a champ than a chump.

Well, Montana has two NC's, and I hope they NEVER go I-A. Is there a SINGLE success story of a I-AA team moving to I-A and getting BCS consideration? If not, I'll take the I-AA NC any day. Better to be a big fish in a medium sized pond, than a medium sized fish in an ocean. See: Idaho, Boise State, Marshall, Nevada, etc.

[AZGrizFan]

I think it's interesting that they say no feedback has been posted for that article. I know that I, for one, immediately sent comments on the article and I'm pretty sure a lot of you here did as well.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

[JALMOND]

I still say you all are reading too much into this. If a drunk journalism student wants to write an op-ed about PSU athletics within I-AA as compared to the big picture (I-A), all I say is put some stock into where it's coming from. If one of the big sports editors from the Oregonian wrote it, or it gets on the AP line and appears nationwide, then invoke your criticism on it. This story has not generated even one iota of interest within the Portland area. Why should it here. Would it have made any difference if it appeared in the Georgetown community regarding Georgetown athletics? One of the reasons why I don't follow any smaller Portland newspapers is because of the constant misinformation in them. If you think this is bad, you should try to read some of their coverage of the Blazers.

I say don't give him the satisfaction of knowing we are angry. Four years from now, he can walk in and say that he wrote a controversial article about PSU athletics that generated a wave of criticism nationwide, so it must have been good.

[IaaScribe]

I still say you all are reading too much into this. If a drunk journalism student wants to write an op-ed about PSU athletics within I-AA as compared to the big picture (I-A), all I say is put some stock into where it's coming from. If one of the big sports editors from the Oregonian wrote it, or it gets on the AP line and appears nationwide, then invoke your criticism on it. This story has not generated even one iota of interest within the Portland area. Why should it here. Would it have made any difference if it appeared in the Georgetown community regarding Georgetown athletics? One of the reasons why I don't follow any smaller Portland newspapers is because of the constant misinformation in them. If you think this is bad, you should try to read some of their coverage of the Blazers.

I say don't give him the satisfaction of knowing we are angry. Four years from now, he can walk in and say that he wrote a controversial article about PSU athletics that generated a wave of criticism nationwide, so it must have been good.

Amen, JALMOND. It's a damn student paper. It's not worth your time. This paper doesn't even circulate outside the PSU campus.

[henfan]

If the PSU student newspaper doesn't reach outside the boundries of the campus, I wonder how I got hold of it all the way here on the East Coast? :rolleyes:

Part of the purpose of the student paper is to have future journalists learn and work on their chops. Maybe this writer will consider this a learning experience.

BTW, Jalmond. The story wasn't controversial so much as it was just poorly written. That's probably why the editors took the tact they did in correcting most of the inaccuracies.

[tanagriz]

My degree is IN journalism from Montana and all I know is that our faculty advisor on the Kaimin would have had our heads over the inaccuracies regarding Div. I-AA football in that article. And I'm talking about not just the student who wrote the piece, but the copy editor who let it slip through at 2am when the paper was going down for bed. Those are the kinds of errors that are unacceptable on any newspaper, student or otherwise. We were always held to professional standards because that's what you're doing...entering a profession. I wonder what year this student is?

[IaaScribe]

The Kaimin is a much better paper than the Vanguard. Always liked that student paper. It was really the only decent student paper in the Big Sky. The Lumberjack may be the worst college paper in the country.

[JALMOND]

One of the "best" things about the Internet is you can find almost anything you want, including student newspapers. The idea that, with all the e-mails being sent to the Vanguard regarding this, the student no doubt will believe that it is "controversial" and has thus generated this wave of e-mails from throughout the nation.

It is stories like this that, if I was running a major newspaper and I had someone from the Portland State journalism department and someone from, say, Montana's journalism department, I know who I would pick, and it would not be the PSU graduate, even though I am a supporter of PSU.