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View Full Version : What Ever Happened To Youngstown St?



GannonFan
April 19th, 2005, 03:46 PM
Not meant as smack, but curious from those in the know what's the status of this once-great program and what's it going to take to resume it's place at the top of the IAA world? Was losing Tressel that important? Did moving into the Gateway help speed their downfall? Is there anything else about the program that has stopped it from being as successful as it once was? Always liked the trip out to Youngstown and watching a game in the Igloo and certainly they are one of the Hen's more storied opponents, just curious is there's still life in the program.

leatherneck177
April 19th, 2005, 05:44 PM
This is obviously an outsiders viewpoint, but I believe that since Tressel left the program has not quite been the same. I'm not sure if they are losing recruiting battles or what, but the program has experienced a significant decline since his departure, that is a fact. I think the years following his departure they may have had one playoff year, but the last two years have been rough.

Paladin1aa
April 19th, 2005, 08:14 PM
The dope -- Heacock,Tressel's DC, took over. 1st three classes were "stinkers" overall. Last two have been pretty good. After the 1st three work their way out,you'll see a big difference.

Heacock is in the last of his 5 year contract. Win or else.

Pen Guin
April 19th, 2005, 11:13 PM
Just a few things for consideration:

1. It was not really Tressel leaving, as much as how he raided the existing, and potential, staff. The the two assistants that remained, were picked up by MAC schools. Last year's OC left to assume an HC position. Coaches under Tressel became a hot commodity ... the 4th one has just became a DI HC. This is far more difficult to overcome than the loss of an HC.

2. YSU was an independent. Picture yourself the head-coach of a team in a conference. Would you worry about a game with YSU more than your own conference? ... I think not. Any HC that spends any summer camp time preparing for an independent is a fool. Certainly your own conference foe are far more important.

3. Along the same vein. YSu is now in a conference. For the first time, they have 7 other teams spending summer camps preparing for the Guins.

4. YSU can no longer play the quantity of IA games they did in the past. These games (regardless of your feelings on MAC quality) gave YSU a distinct advantage come play-off time. The depth they faced against these IA teams gave them an imeasurable advantage that I-AA teams, in a conference, did not have. Look at Hofstra for another example around the same time frame of YSU's glory years.

5. Coach Heacock. Coach H was probably one of, if not the greatest OC, in I-AA. He set numerous records in points & yardage allowed. He is now the HC & his duties are very limited on the defense any more. Does this need to change?

6. The option game. YSU was a running powerhouse, with QB that would rather run than throw. This dimension was removed, under coach Tressel, in 1997. I think he felt the pro-set was needed to compete in the GFC. That is when I knew it was time for him to go. He tried to bring YSU into a pro-set formation ... without recruiting the players to do it. Look at the 1999 title game. How did we lose to to a 1-dimensional team like GSU (no insult intended) ... but we had a power running game they could not stop, but a defense with no experience covering the outside. All they had to do was cover the pitch man & the game was theirs ... but it never materialized ... as the players had no exposure to it. Our option offense is why we never lost to GSU prior to that game. This exposure would have been gained as an independent & the ability to schedule a few option clubs. None the less, it takes an option offense to train a defense that can cover the option. 1 week prior to a game is not enough.

Sorry to ramble, & I do not agree with Paladins assesment of coach H's recruiting classes. With the exception of some OLine recruits that arrived injured. This was a major failure in the first recruiting attempt of the Heacock staff.

Eagle22
April 20th, 2005, 02:13 AM
To this outsider, Tressel's teams seemed to have that blue collar approach and his fundamentals coaching style rarely had his team in a position where they didn't have a chance to win the game. Running the ball doesn't hurt either. If you're successful at dictating the pace and flow of the game and run successfully, you're going to win a bunch of ballgames.

The first twenty minutes of the 1999 championship game, that was the case. Tressel inexplicably abandoned the smash mouth game near the end of the second quarter, GSU found a little separation ... and Bennie Cunningham's TD run and Ant William's punt return for a TD run blew the game open. Down so many points, it was foreign territory for the Penguins and their desperation was apparent.

Post-game, Tressel commented to the media that he abandoned the smash-mouth game because he felt he didn't have the depth to keep it up. Frankly, I was suprised to hear the frank commentary, but he obviously felt it was the case. It sure didn't seem that way the first 20 minutes of that game. That was the only time I've ever seen Tressel appear to be fairly resigned to the outcome of a game.

GSU was very proficient passing the ball in 1999, just didn't need to utilize that part of their game, that game.

But back to YSU, and I'll not hijack the thread ;) Sorry.

FU97
April 20th, 2005, 09:21 AM
Seems to me the biggest loss was the loss of the money from the Pharmor guy to pay players.......

Paladin1aa
April 20th, 2005, 11:12 AM
Poor PenGuin & most Guin backers. Folks here have had a difficult time accepting reality. Here's the facts -- Heacocks seasons & recruiting -

8-3 , 1st class is undersized
7-4 , 2nd class a repeat
5-7, 3rd class not much better
4-7 , 4th class outstanding
2005 TBD, incoming class looks pretty good as well.

My projection is with many of the poor class players still around, this year will be 5-6 or 6-5, unless they play heavily the underclassmen. Heacock has to win this year.

With a good recruit class next winter, YSU could make BIG move in 2006.

Kill'em
April 20th, 2005, 10:25 PM
It is a shame. They may have been the team of the nineties.

GoGuins
April 21st, 2005, 09:58 AM
YSU was the team of the '90's, 4 NC's and 2 runner-ups. That is ancient history now. YSU has not been to the playoffs since 2000, Tressel's last year, and lost in the first round to Richmond on a late game INT return by the Spiders on that cold, rainy day in Richmond.

IMO YSU hasn't kept up with getting IA transfers and JUCO players like the rest of IAA. Sure YSU in the past and present has gotten IA transfers but they are mostly local guys coming back home to play. PJ Mays was an exception as was QB Nick Cochran in '92. As Eagle said, Tressel always knew how to dictate a game and have his teams in position to win. Control the clock with smashmouth, no TO's, and great special teams play, that was his motto. If you watch Ohio State today, it's like watching YSU from the past. QB's aren't flashy but they're smart, don't commit costly TO's, & sacrifice to get the job done. Our current coach Heacock, does not have the intangibles Tressel brought and he knows his job is on the line this year being the last on his contract. No playoffs and he should be gone. This is his first YSU team with no Tressel players on it.

Eagle- I still scratch my head to this day why Tressel abandoned the run after 1.5 qtrs in the '99 title game up 14-10. YSU was pushing GSU down the field getting 5-7 yards a pop & I don't buy it either they didn't have the depth to continue. Those 2 returns for TD's were the back breakers and YSU couldn't recover, a snowball effect.

DTSpider
April 21st, 2005, 10:05 AM
[QUOTE=GoGuins] YSU has not been to the playoffs since 2000, Tressel's last year, and lost in the first round to Richmond on a late game INT return by the Spiders on that cold, rainy day in Richmond.QUOTE]

Unfortunately that was the last time the Spiders had much to celebrate.

Paladin1aa
April 21st, 2005, 10:55 AM
Hey, GoGuins -- Now that you are back from the war, are you going to sit with us folks on the "home" side or continue to sit with the "visitors" ??

You are also correct Go that we haven't done well with transfers & jucos under Heacock. Thats part of each class evaluation I've done.This year may be the exception.

GoGuins
April 21st, 2005, 11:08 AM
Yea Paladin, I'll try to catch a few games this year. Whenever Michigan is not playing at home :) . I probably will sit on the home side but won't be buying season tix like in the past. My company gives out tickets so I'll probably use them.

Last year I got back from overseas in early Sept and caught the game agaisnt FIU, the only game I attended all year. I was in Dover, DE from late Sept until Dec. and had a favorable work schedule with Thur-Sat off (working 12 hr mid's) so I'd take the 7 hour drive home on Thur morning and go to Michigan games with my brother Sat. who has season tix there, then back to Dover early Sun. It worked out nice. I still support YSU, but there's nothing like a game at the Big House.

Paladin1aa
April 21st, 2005, 11:32 AM
Go Bucks !! :p

GoGuins
April 21st, 2005, 02:53 PM
Go Bucks !! :p

You mean hairless nuts!

BTW, looks like you are getting close to pulling a Capn Cat and being banned from the YSU site :p

Paladin1aa
April 21st, 2005, 06:24 PM
Poor I-AA fan. He's one of the biggest apologists on the board. The question was simple -- which is more important , the program or the coach ?? All I was trying to get the board to do was take a stand before the season started- what must the program do this year to keep Heacock.

Play-offs ?? 8 wins or more ?? Winning season ?? Whats the "standards" for YSU under the Heacock regime ?? Surprisingly, the apologists don't appear to want to have "standards".

Maybe attendance this year will catch their eye. :p

GoGuins
April 22nd, 2005, 10:37 AM
I agree, I didn't see any negativity in your question. A fair and legit question IMO. I think many fans (including me) are frustrated in what has happened to the program since JT's departure. Heacock did win his first two seasons, barely missing the playoffs in '01, but with many of Tressel's players. The last 2 years with many JT players gone, Heacock has went 9-14, he has declined every year so far. If by chance he leads the team to the playoffs with an early 1st or second round exit, I wouldn't give him more than a one year extension. Heacock is a great coordinator but mediocre HC. If the team continues with medicrity and more fans quit showing up, Strollo will be forced to do something. Football (as in most schools) is the money maker for the athletics dept.

Paladin1aa
April 22nd, 2005, 11:02 AM
Yep , its a shame because Heacock was a terrific DC. He's been a total flop as a HC. And your observation matches mine. With JT recruits his first two years, he won.

By year 3, his poor recruiting starts to show up and is reflected in the next 2 years record. I saw it all coming and even pointed out on YSUPenguins what was going to happen & why. You have to be an idiot, as many are on that board, not to recognize that you can't get away with 5'9,150 RBs,undersized OL & DL, 5'9,200 MLB, etc.

I think Strollo is ahead of the curve by scheduling the Pitt game this year. Last years attendance was embarassing for a program that had dominated the top of I-AA for a decade. In listening to the people around me where I sit, they have lost confidence in Heacock and won't be back. I expect a major drop this year and Strollo is just covering his butt.

My take -- Heacock has to make the play-offs this year or be fired, If they don't fire him, major $$ loss to the program for years ahead. And the program suffers as BB did under Robic.

Gil Dobie
August 30th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Not meant as smack, but curious from those in the know what's the status of this once-great program and what's it going to take to resume it's place at the top of the IAA world? Was losing Tressel that important? Did moving into the Gateway help speed their downfall? Is there anything else about the program that has stopped it from being as successful as it once was? Always liked the trip out to Youngstown and watching a game in the Igloo and certainly they are one of the Hen's more storied opponents, just curious is there's still life in the program.

After 6 years, they made some noice in 2011 :)

Go Lehigh TU owl
August 30th, 2012, 03:13 PM
Where the heck are all these YSU fans?!?! If nothing else, it's nice to see the Penguins relevant again!

ursus arctos horribilis
August 30th, 2012, 03:24 PM
Where the heck are all these YSU fans?!?! If nothing else, it's nice to see the Penguins relevant again!

Gotta agree there. We're much better off with them relevant and making noise.

Talk about a necro bump though.xlolx

Love seeing some of the oldies show up once in a while. It's pretty sweet.

Gil Dobie
August 30th, 2012, 03:34 PM
Gotta agree there. We're much better off with them relevant and making noise.

Talk about a necro bump though.xlolx

Love seeing some of the oldies show up once in a while. It's pretty sweet.

Paladin1aa used to be a very active user.

Go Lehigh TU owl
August 30th, 2012, 03:38 PM
2006 the 'Guins were one game away from the title game. It's been a long road back since then but I think they've finally arrived. I was lucky enough to see them against NDSU last year when they really made their presence known again!

ysubigred
August 30th, 2012, 03:42 PM
After 6 years, they made some noice in 2011 :)

xrolleyesx Did pretty good in 2006 :D

ysubigred
August 30th, 2012, 03:44 PM
Paladin1aa used to be a very active user.

There's been questions if he was really a YSU fan or a troll? I believe he was a Youngstown guy with a chip on his shoulder (hated the former coach heacock).

ysubigred
August 30th, 2012, 03:49 PM
2006 the 'Guins were one game away from the title game. It's been a long road back since then but I think they've finally arrived. I was lucky enough to see them against NDSU last year when they really made their presence known again!

We'll see. I'm keeping my comments on the low down right now. We have some talent but I'm still out on the coaching staff and their decision making process. Year 3 no excuses for the current HC. This Pitt game will tell a lot about the character of the team. Should be no reason YSU shouldn't put a good scare in the Panthers.

ysubigred
August 30th, 2012, 03:51 PM
xtwocentsx I just wish we had Dayton this year LOL!! Next year seems so far away xtroublex

ysubigred
August 30th, 2012, 03:56 PM
Where the heck are all these YSU fans?!?! If nothing else, it's nice to see the Penguins relevant again!


We have our own board YSUPENGUINS.COM Dan the board admin is a super guy and really did a nice job creating the board. I don't post there much anymore to many infighting amongst the board members. Either wear rose colored glasses when you make a comment or don't say anything that's the motto with these old codgers.

Go Lehigh TU owl
August 30th, 2012, 04:00 PM
One my first real good memories of 1-AA outside of the PL/Ivy League/Yankee Conference. I used to love the Saturday afternoon title games on CBS!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuQOiO0EGU8

ysubigred
August 30th, 2012, 04:16 PM
One my first real good memories of 1-AA outside of the PL/Ivy League/Yankee Conference. I used to love the Saturday afternoon title games on CBS!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuQOiO0EGU8

xhighfivex xlovexThose were the days. Now 1FCS NC Game/playoffs is tucked in somewhere behind the Stag Bowl DIV II National Championship game and poker. Then most of the playoffs air on ESPN 31 1/2 xbangx

Daved
August 30th, 2012, 06:33 PM
Where the heck are all these YSU fans?!?! If nothing else, it's nice to see the Penguins relevant again!Trust me if YSU starts playing the way that they are capable of playing this year then the bandwagon will fill up fast and their will be plenty of YSU fans.:)

DoubleE
August 30th, 2012, 09:07 PM
There's been questions if he was really a YSU fan or a troll? I believe he was a Youngstown guy with a chip on his shoulder (hated the former coach heacock).

Paladin posts on the YSU board (Lets Go Guins) so he is around

ysubigred
August 31st, 2012, 08:19 AM
Trust me if YSU starts playing the way that they are capable of playing this year then the bandwagon will fill up fast and their will be plenty of YSU fans.:)

Whats up Dave?!? Where have you been hiding? good to see you back.

ysubigred
August 31st, 2012, 08:20 AM
Paladin posts on the YSU board (Lets Go Guins) so he is around

I forgot about that YSU board. That's YSUair's board right?

Cocky
August 31st, 2012, 09:04 AM
Tressel took the tattoo artist to Columbus with him?

ysubigred
August 31st, 2012, 02:49 PM
Tressel took the tattoo artist to Columbus with him?

xconfusedx Keep your day job xoopsx

ndsubison
August 31st, 2012, 04:14 PM
I think YSU is still relevant. Had they won their final game last year they would have been in the playoffs and who knows after that? They sure looked good against NDSU last year. They also play in The Valley so every week is a grind. They are far from being irrelevant, IMO.

Daved
August 31st, 2012, 07:45 PM
Whats up Dave?!? Where have you been hiding? good to see you back.Been keeping a low profile since not much to cheer about for awhile--I have a hunch that's liable to change drastically this year--@ least I'm sure hoping it will!xnodx

DoubleE
August 31st, 2012, 10:30 PM
Been keeping a low profile since not much to cheer about for awhile--I have a hunch that's liable to change drastically this year--@ least I'm sure hoping it will!xnodx

i think we may have that come 9pm saturday night ;)

ysubigred
September 1st, 2012, 09:55 PM
Been keeping a low profile since not much to cheer about for awhile--I have a hunch that's liable to change drastically this year--@ least I'm sure hoping it will!xnodx

I held down the fort while you all were gone xsalutex Beating Pitt living in Louisville (heart of Big East country) is almost as good as the "W" in Chatty in 97 against the Pokes xthumbsupx

ysubigred
September 1st, 2012, 09:56 PM
i think we may have that come 9pm saturday night ;)

EE you are right let the party begin xbowx

Daved
September 1st, 2012, 10:30 PM
i think we may have that come 9pm saturday night ;)Very prophetic thought and right on the money!xsalutex

Paladin1aa
September 2nd, 2012, 12:10 AM
Oh yeah, I'm still around and I have predicted big things for YSU this year. The Pitt win is surprising but not surprising. They have arrived.

dgreco
September 2nd, 2012, 07:52 AM
congrats to YSU fans, great win.