From the Rose Bowl to FCS

[kalm]

Interesting read on Idaho's journey, unrealistic boosters, and the fact that other lower tier FBS programs are watching what happens to Idaho with interest....


Idaho, meanwhile, brought in $10 million across all of its sports, enough to cover less than half of its budget. The rest came from the broader university and student fees. The Rose Bowl experience was a fantasy, and Staben knew it, even if some alumni didn’t.“That isn’t by any means the kind of thing the University of Idaho is likely going to attain,” Staben said. “It’s a totally different league, and you and I and all reasonable people understand that.”
Though no university has copied Staben’s move, schools across the country are closely following Idaho’s transition. Staben said presidents at other schools have called to say they admire his courage. Some would love to do the same, they tell him, but they’re too worried about the outcry from alumni.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jan/08/college-football-title-pits-rich-vs-richer-idaho-v/

[PaladinFan]

I think the alumni would quickly get over it. More regional rivalries, better chance to win.

I see it as getting essentially the same on field product for a fraction of the cost. What's not to like?

[Laker]

Idaho's move to FBS might have turned out better, but no one could predict the rapid rise of Boise State from a junior college to a national brand name. Rose Bowl experience is unrealistic. Now the Vandals are back to their natural rivals- eventually most of these "fans" who have deserted them will come back.

I'll be interested to see what happens to New Mexico State now that they will be a football independent. Any thoughts on which other schools might be seriously thinking about a return to FCS?

[DFW HOYA]

I'll be interested to see what happens to New Mexico State now that they will be a football independent. Any thoughts on which other schools might be seriously thinking about a return to FCS?

Almost none. Outside of Winston-Salem and Savannah State, how many schools are going back to Division II?

[Iridebikes]

Interesting read on Idaho's journey, unrealistic boosters, and the fact that other lower tier FBS programs are watching what happens to Idaho with interest....


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jan/08/college-football-title-pits-rich-vs-richer-idaho-v/
Thanks for posting this kalm. I saw this article in the paper on Sunday and thought it was pretty interesting. It seems to me, with the advent of the P5 and the FBS playoff system that has been created that a two tier system in FBS, and for me its not as enjoyable as it used to be. I've always enjoyed following the Mountain West but now that they have basically been eliminated from competing at the top levels of their division, whats the point? Some minor bowl game? It also seems to me that the quality of play of the non P5 has degraded as all of the money and interest is manipulated and controlled by the P5.

[Noryan34]

Interesting read on Idaho's journey, unrealistic boosters, and the fact that other lower tier FBS programs are watching what happens to Idaho with interest....


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jan/08/college-football-title-pits-rich-vs-richer-idaho-v/

"
LMAO. The fans are mad? I just do not get it. In 22 years of FBS football they had 5 winning seasons and no season with 10 wins and an overall percentage of 33.1%. What alumni booster says ya give me some more of that!!!?

[walliver]

Almost none. Outside of Winston-Salem and Savannah State, how many schools are going back to Division II?

Presbyterian is moving to an even lower level of football than D2 (PFL). One factor working against teams going from D-I to D-II is the loss of March Madness money. WSSU and SSU wanted to save scholarship football so they moved down a division.

[Derby City Duke]

Interesting read on Idaho's journey, unrealistic boosters, and the fact that other lower tier FBS programs are watching what happens to Idaho with interest....


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jan/08/college-football-title-pits-rich-vs-richer-idaho-v/

Good read; I think over time we'll see more lower tier FBS schools at least consider seriously the move to FCS. How many actual moves that translates to is debatable as it is hard to put that genie back in the bottle.

I wonder what the long term viability of C-USA and the Sun Belt are as they get next to nothing, on a per-school basis, for TV revenue . In 2016-17 C-USA's TV revenue dropped 82% from the previous year. The only thing really helping them (and the SBC) financially is March Madness conference revenue and $$ under bowl and CFP agreements.

The real question to me is when will the upper echelon FCS teams / conferences create a new subdivision with the non-P5 conferences (maybe less the AAC / MAC / MW). Set the # of schollies in the new subdivision at 72 and create anew playoff. Schools could compete as an Independent at the new level or stay put.

My xtwocentsxxtwocentsx

[Anthony215]

I think the AAC schools are only in good shape because consistently they're the best G5 league. Houston, Temple, Memphis, UCF, ECU & USF all have build solid programs. So every year the AAC champ is almost a lock to get that NY6 bid against a P5 team on New Years Day. The only way they can miss out on the NY6 games is if Boise State had a unbelievable year and went undefeated or had 1 loss to a good and solid P5 program. Few teams want to give up that NCAA tournament money to go down to D2. Now the HBCU's it might benefit them to drop down because the CIAA tournament is pretty big and does well financially for all schools especially if your teams can make it to Championship Sunday. The SIAC basketball tournament I don't think its a big financial gain so SWAC schools have to pretty much have no choice but collect the NCAA tournament money while not producing NCAA FCS playoff participants as their top 2 teams play for the SWAC title during NCAA playoff weekend.

[Outsider1]

I know coming from a school that just finished transitioning up this may not sound as good, but moving from FBS to FCS is smart for Idaho. Lower budgets and actually offering their student athletes a better experience are both great reasons. They will be much more competitive, spend less and have the potential to actually bring in more. I would think that if the move does prove successful that others would follow, probably not an avalanche of school but still others would see it and say why not? I don't see a need for a 3rd football subdivision, two is more than enough.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Its amazing to me that more schools dont drop down to FCS simply because they win a real National Championship on the field not in computers, algorithms and sportswriters ballots. I get that its all about the money but if more teams dropped down the money would follow.

Besides I am a purist and FBS football is an inferior post season product.

[WileECoyote06]

Thanks for posting this kalm. I saw this article in the paper on Sunday and thought it was pretty interesting. It seems to me, with the advent of the P5 and the FBS playoff system that has been created that a two tier system in FBS, and for me its not as enjoyable as it used to be. I've always enjoyed following the Mountain West but now that they have basically been eliminated from competing at the top levels of their division, whats the point? Some minor bowl game? It also seems to me that the quality of play of the non P5 has degraded as all of the money and interest is manipulated and controlled by the P5.

The same thing is happening in FCS. Just replace "P5 and the FBS playoff system that has been created" with "conferences offering FCOA". xdontknowx

[DCWIU11]

I think that if Idaho is competitive right off the bat and makes the playoffs and the alumni start getting back onboard with the programs move back to FCS, I think more presidents at lower end non-P5 conferences will start look at moving down. UCF this year proved that if you are not in the P5 you do not have a shot at getting a chance of winning the national championship. When WIU played Coastal this year, I asked a few of their fans why they moved up? They were national ranked, a FCS "powerhouse" team and they move up to the Sunbelt where even if they werent awful this year they'd be playing for some pointless bowl. Most of the people I spoke to said they believed they moved up for the money but my follow up was "How long does the Sunbelt money last? Especially with the way the playoff system is set up?" If I were a university president and my schools football team wasn't in the P5 or one of the few non-P5 schools that are always semi relevant in FBS,(Houston, Boise, Memphis just to name a few) I would start considering to move down. But, I doubt it happens because the fear of losing money from donors, tv deals, and state budget cuts will make this intelligent idea not become real.

[Hammerhead]

Even if a G5 team went undefeated and had two wins vs top 20 programs, I'm not sure they would get into the Rose Bowl/FBS semfinal.

[Sader87]

No one (ok, hardly anyone) cares about the FCS playoffs.....it's all "Division 2" to 90% of American fans. Highly doubt you see many moving down from FBS.

[Thumper 76]

No one (ok, hardly anyone) cares about the FCS playoffs.....it's all "Division 2" to 90% of American fans. Highly doubt you see many moving down from FBS.

I would bet outside of seeing a team in passing playing an amply bowl game a fairly similar number thinks the same thing about a bunch of low G5 programs they’ve never heard of. I don’t disagree with the amount that moves down, hard to see too many move. With the TV money drying up though, it could be interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Outsider1]

I think some of the struggling FBS schools would see more opportunity with less cost moving down. They are feeling the squeeze. I think that is exactly why some of them will be watching the Vandals.

[PaladinFan]

No one (ok, hardly anyone) cares about the FCS playoffs.....it's all "Division 2" to 90% of American fans. Highly doubt you see many moving down from FBS.

To me, that does not matter. If it ain’t the biggest and brightest lights, most of the country won’t care regardless of the division.

[Catamount87]

Has anyone seen solid projections on TV revenues for the next several years? It can't be good given the continual flight of viewers from cable and satellite TV.

[Outsider1]

Has anyone seen solid projections on TV revenues for the next several years? It can't be good given the continual flight of viewers from cable and satellite TV.

But don't most of those still get ESPN and similar with Hulu, Amazon, sling, etc...? I agree ESPN might feel some squeeze but I don't know if they are going to change their behavior any time soon. I would think things like Sling might actually make it easier to watch FCS games on TV since so much of what we have to do is internet based already.

[Noryan34]

I havent read into specifics of them moving down too much. But how do they handle the decreased scholarships? Do they have a postseason wait period like those that move up?

[Pinnum]

I'll be interested to see what happens to New Mexico State now that they will be a football independent. Any thoughts on which other schools might be seriously thinking about a return to FCS?

Akron and Eastern Michigan. Come to mind.

Kent State could be a possibility.

I could also see Texas State looking at it and thinking about the success of SHSU.

[walliver]

I doubt many teams move down. Idaho's real problem was being located in Idaho.
The MAC teams are fairly close geographically and most do not require large travel budgets and don't have scheduling problems so there is not a lot need to move.
The MWC sort of overlaps the Big Sky, but in that part of the country travel will be an issue at any level.
C-USA is an ego-driven conference and financial considerations are generally ignored.
The SunBelt is nothing but uppity FCS move-ups and a delusional school in Lafayette.
The AAC consists of AAA teams waiting for a G5 call-up.
... and Liberty is just better than all of us:D.

NMSU, UMass, and possibly Liberty may be candidates to move down at some point, but what I suspect is more likely, is that the NCAA loosens the floodgates and the MVFC, JSU, Kennesaw, and half of the CAA moves to FBS and then quickly regrets it.

[DCWIU11]

I for one, would be very upset if Western moved up to FBS. One, because we wouldn't get an invite to a P5 conference (nor could Macomb handle those demands) and two I would be upset that our chance for the post-season would be some bowl game in Cleveland or some awful city like that. I would rather play in the toughest FCS conference, make the playoffs, and have a shot to win a national championship than win the "Casey's Pizza" bowl. Three, the financial situation of most Illinois schools should focus on the education of the students and not the football program.

[Yote 53]

I think that if Idaho is competitive right off the bat and makes the playoffs and the alumni start getting back onboard with the programs move back to FCS, I think more presidents at lower end non-P5 conferences will start look at moving down. UCF this year proved that if you are not in the P5 you do not have a shot at getting a chance of winning the national championship. When WIU played Coastal this year, I asked a few of their fans why they moved up? They were national ranked, a FCS "powerhouse" team and they move up to the Sunbelt where even if they werent awful this year they'd be playing for some pointless bowl. Most of the people I spoke to said they believed they moved up for the money but my follow up was "How long does the Sunbelt money last? Especially with the way the playoff system is set up?" If I were a university president and my schools football team wasn't in the P5 or one of the few non-P5 schools that are always semi relevant in FBS,(Houston, Boise, Memphis just to name a few) I would start considering to move down. But, I doubt it happens because the fear of losing money from donors, tv deals, and state budget cuts will make this intelligent idea not become real.

See, I disagree. I think it would be best for Idaho to struggle to a mediocre record their first season rather than find instant success. Then maybe their fans and alumni would recognize that quality football is played at this level, there are good teams here, and that maybe the quality of football isn't that bad and they need to work to be successful at the FCS. Instant success would give them the feeling that this level is too easy and they will keep peaking over the fence at FBS.

[DCWIU11]

See, I disagree. I think it would be best for Idaho to struggle to a mediocre record their first season rather than find instant success. Then maybe their fans and alumni would recognize that quality football is played at this level, there are good teams here, and that maybe the quality of football isn't that bad and they need to work to be successful at the FCS. Instant success would give them the feeling that this level is too easy and they will keep peaking over the fence at FBS.

Yotes, that is a really good point too. I didn’t think of it that way but “proving” (we all know this to be true as FCS fans) that FCS football is just as competitive if not more competitive than some of the FBS conferences would be helpful for our national spotlight or narrative. Personally, I hate the FBS and just want to watch all the non-P5 schools leave and come to the FCS. I just really, really dislike the FBS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VandalBasher]

See, I disagree. I think it would be best for Idaho to struggle to a mediocre record their first season rather than find instant success. Then maybe their fans and alumni would recognize that quality football is played at this level, there are good teams here, and that maybe the quality of football isn't that bad and they need to work to be successful at the FCS. Instant success would give them the feeling that this level is too easy and they will keep peaking over the fence at FBS.

Our lot has already been picked. We are an FCS team. I look forward to some great games against Montana and MSU, Idaho State and Eastern Washington. Beyond that, maybe NAU and Weber? Vandals from western Washington and Oregon will travel well to Portland State which will be a fun game. See ya this fall.

[JALMOND]

Our lot has already been picked. We are an FCS team. I look forward to some great games against Montana and MSU, Idaho State and Eastern Washington. Beyond that, maybe NAU and Weber? Vandals from western Washington and Oregon will travel well to Portland State which will be a fun game. See ya this fall.

Big Sky fans from Western Washington and Oregon always travel well to Portland. We even roll out the red carpet for you (well, the "green" carpetxlolx).

[PantherRob82]

I for one, would be very upset if Western moved up to FBS. One, because we wouldn't get an invite to a P5 conference (nor could Macomb handle those demands) and two I would be upset that our chance for the post-season would be some bowl game in Cleveland or some awful city like that. I would rather play in the toughest FCS conference, make the playoffs, and have a shot to win a national championship than win the "Casey's Pizza" bowl. Three, the financial situation of most Illinois schools should focus on the education of the students and not the football program.

WIU would go D-III long before they went FBS. I don’t know how you even afford FCS football.

[ST_Lawson]

WIU would go D-III long before they went FBS. I don’t know how you even afford FCS football.

Just to be clear, I don't see either as a likely possibly in the near future, but yeah...we're more likely to drop to DII than go FBS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VandalBasher]

Big Sky fans from Western Washington and Oregon always travel well to Portland. We even roll out the red carpet for you (well, the "green" carpetxlolx).

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-18/2018-idaho-vandals-football-schedule.php

It looks like we will be playing the first iteration in the Kibbie Dome on September 29th. Stop on by.

Go Vandals

[DCWIU11]

WIU would go D-III long before they went FBS. I don’t know how you even afford FCS football.


Def true but I don't see/hope that doesn't happen.

[Herder]

Did someone use Idaho football and Rosebowl in the same sentence?

[ST_Lawson]

Did someone use Idaho football and Rosebowl in the same sentence?

It's ok as long as the words between "Idaho" and "Rose Bowl" are "will never be in".

[Bisonoline]

Did someone use Idaho football and Rosebowl in the same sentence?

I was confused by that as well and couldnt find any tangible connection.

[number1]

UL-Monroe should strongly consider moving back to FCS. Their athletic spending pretty much falls in line a good number of FCS schools, but puts them at the bottom in the FBS.

[Derby City Duke]

It's ok as long as the words between "Idaho" and "Rose Bowl" are "will never be in".

True, the Rose Bowl will never be in Ida...oh, you meant it the other way. xlolx

[ST_Lawson]

True, the Rose Bowl will never be in Ida...oh, you meant it the other way. xlolx

Valid either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Herder]

My thread Title . . . From 5-7 to 7-4. Idaho will find 2 more wins in the FCS, but it won’t be easy sledding.

[mmiller_34]

The same thing is happening in FCS. Just replace "P5 and the FBS playoff system that has been created" with "conferences offering FCOA". xdontknowx

That may be true in terms of general competitiveness across conferences.

However, I would disagree because any conference in FCS who wants a bid, gets at least one to send their champion to have a chance at a national title.

Exhibit A - San Diego gets to prove themselves worthy. Maybe their chances are 1 in a million to win the whole thing, but at least they get that chance unlike Central Florida in the FBS. Meanwhile, while they are offered that opportunity to compete in the playoffs, they have shown themselves worthy and have two quality postseason wins to raise their profile just a little bit more.

[DCWIU11]

That may be true in terms of general competitiveness across conferences.

However, I would disagree because any conference in FCS who wants a bid, gets at least one to send their champion to have a chance at a national title.

Exhibit A - San Diego gets to prove themselves worthy. Maybe their chances are 1 in a million to win the whole thing, but at least they get that chance unlike Central Florida in the FBS. Meanwhile, while they are offered that opportunity to compete in the playoffs, they have shown themselves worthy and have two quality postseason wins to raise their profile just a little bit more.

Yep, this is why FCS playoffs is better than the FBS. San Diego, while they don’t play in the most competitive conference in the FCS have had the chance of winning the title two years in a row. Where if they were FBS they’d be laughed at and told to stay out. UCF is my FBS champion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JALMOND]

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-18/2018-idaho-vandals-football-schedule.php

It looks like we will be playing the first iteration in the Kibbie Dome on September 29th. Stop on by.

Go Vandals

Might have to do just that.xthumbsupx

Last time we went to the Palouse, we came home winners.:D

[kalm]

I was confused by that as well and couldnt find any tangible connection.

The connection was hinted at in the quoted part of OP. If you took the time to read the linked article, it would make even more sense.

So of course you guys are confused. xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The connection was hinted at in the quoted part of OP. If you took the time to read the linked article, it would make even more sense.

So of course you guys are confused. xlolx

Yeah, reading the article give the context but even while reading I was saying basically what Oline was saying it's just that I was saying it to the dummy that sent the text or whatever to the ID AD.

[Bisonoline]

The connection was hinted at in the quoted part of OP. If you took the time to read the linked article, it would make even more sense.

So of course you guys are confused. xlolx

So you expended all that hot air without giving an explanation just to be a smart ass.

[kalm]

So you expended all that hot air without giving an explanation just to be a smart ass.

Expanded all of what hot air? It was a short description of an article followed by a short quote, followed by a link. And yes, the thread title was intentionally satirical.

Sorry.

[Bisonoline]

Expanded all of what hot air? It was a short description of an article followed by a short quote, followed by a link. And yes, the thread title was intentionally satirical.

Sorry.

Yawn.....
What?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yawn.....
What?

Did you read the article Oline? A fan of Idaho that is pissed off about the move to FCS made the comment via twitter or something while the Rose Bowl was going on that "THIS IS WHAT WE ARE GIVING UP!" or something to that effect.

That was the whole point of the thread and I didn't see kalm, or I trying to make waves here so not sure what this is all about?

[GreenGlasses]

Though no university has copied Staben’s move, schools across the country are closely following Idaho’s transition

What schools, maybe 3. Those being New Mexico State, UMass and UL Monroe. Those are the only 3 that would even think about going IAA again. 1)NMSU doesn't have a conference right now and the MWC isn't likely to pick them up anytime soon. 2)UMass has no conference and the AAC isn't taking them in anytime soon and CUSA will not take them unless its all sports and I doubt that happens, the Sun Belt is their only hope to land in a conference and they already ejected 2 that didn't fit the foot print. 3)UL Monroe has the smallest athletic budget of any IA program at 9.4 million dollars, what they have though that NMSU and UMass doesn't have is a stable conference.



The real question to me is when will the upper echelon FCS teams / conferences create a new subdivision with the non-P5 conferences (maybe less the AAC / MAC / MW). Set the # of schollies in the new subdivision at 72 and create anew playoff. Schools could compete as an Independent at the new level or stay put.

My xtwocentsxxtwocentsx

This will happen about as soon as the P5 break off from the NCAA which people have been predicting for years and will never happen. Those hoping to get most of the schools back that were IAA pre 1993, before the great migration of most of the top IAA schools will be seriously disappointed. I'm just surprised it took Appy State and GA Southern so long.

[dbackjon]

The same thing is happening in FCS. Just replace "P5 and the FBS playoff system that has been created" with "conferences offering FCOA". xdontknowx


One difference is a G5 can spend all the money in the world, and still not be in the club for CFP selection. Any FCS school (as long as the conference allows) can offer FCOA, which is a benefit, but not the be-all-end-all

[Derby City Duke]

Interesting article from Buffalo regarding the search for a new AD; writer raises the idea of UB 'finding the right level for football' -- specifically FCS.

http://buffalonews.com/2018/01/18/bucky-gleason-greenes-exit-opens-door-to-another-opportunity-for-ub/

[Twentysix]

Interesting article from Buffalo regarding the search for a new AD; writer raises the idea of UB 'finding the right level for football' -- specifically FCS.

http://buffalonews.com/2018/01/18/bucky-gleason-greenes-exit-opens-door-to-another-opportunity-for-ub/It would be pretty neat if Idaho has success, might entice some weaker fbs schools to move to the level they fund at.

Idaho buffalo nmsu all could be ndsu challengers

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

Can Buffalo area support Division I football? Yes. The city has lost half its population in the last 60 years and is now smaller than cities like Ft. Wayne or Greensboro, but it's still the 50th largest metro area.

[Laker]

Anyone have a link that shows attendance for the MAC conference? I would guess that there are a number of schools flirting with the FBS never enforced minimum.

[Derby City Duke]

Anyone have a link that shows attendance for the MAC conference? I would guess that there are a number of schools flirting with the FBS never enforced minimum.

No direct link from this year, but here is the NCAA link for 2016 and earlier -- all divisions composite and by school:

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-football-attendance

For 2017:

Half the schools' average went down, half went up. Overall average dropped by more than 6K from 2016.

Toledo / Akron drew 16,225 @Toledo in the MAC Championship game.




'17 Avg
'16 Avg
Diff


Akron (6)
19,569
10,337
+ 9,232


Ball St (6)
9,899
7,789
+ 2,110


BGSU (5)
15,881
15,140
+ 741


Buffalo (6)
13,350
17,493
- 4,143


Cent. Mich (5)
13,504
17,408
- 3,904


East. Mich (5)
14,730
17,677
- 2,947


Kent St (5)
13,185
10,898
+ 2,287


Miami (6)
16,444
17,110
- 666


No. Ill (6)
11,291
11,019
+ 272


Ohio (6)
19,388
21,190
- 1,803


Toledo (6)
20,745
20,128
+ 617


West. Mich (6)
15,886
23,838
- 7,952


MAC Total


-6,155

[ST_Lawson]

Anyone have a link that shows attendance for the MAC conference? I would guess that there are a number of schools flirting with the FBS never enforced minimum.

Do you want actual numbers...because that's going to be pretty hard to find. What you do see is a team will have really bad attendance for a year or two, then MUCH better for a year because it's based on...average over three years or whatever (I can't remember and I'm not going to go hunt it down right now).

So, you've got a school like Eastern Michigan reporting an average of 4.8k fans in 2015, but 17.4k in 2016, 14.7k in 2017.

As a conference, the MAC averaged 16.4k per home game in 2016 (the NCAA hasn't put together/released the 2017 document yet).
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2016.pdf
(http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2016.pdf)
Teams in the FBS that averaged...let's go with under 20k per home game...in 2016 (as reported to the NCAA) are:
Akron - 10.3k
Ball State - 7.8k
Bowling Green - 15k
Buffalo - 17.5k
Central Michigan - 17.4k
Charlotte - 14.2k
Eastern Michigan - 17.7k
Florida International - 16.8k
Florida Atlantic - 10k
Georgia State - 15.1k
Idaho - 11.2k (as we know, they are moving to FCS next season)
Kent State - 10.9k
LA-Monroe - 13.4k
UMass - 14.5k
Miami (OH) - 17.1k
Middle Tennessee - 17.2k
Nevada - 18.5k
New Mexico State - 9.5k
North Texas - 19.9k
Northern Illinois - 11k
San Jose State - 15.4k
South Alabama - 16.3k
Texas State - 18.1k
Tulsa - 19.2k
UNLV - 18.4k
Utah State - 19.1k
Western Kentucky - 17.7k

So, of the MAC teams, there's three that averaged more than 20k (and two of those were just barely). The best was Western Michigan who had 23.8k.
It's pretty well obvious I think that the MAC is really just the CAA or MVFC plus a few scholarships.

What I'd really love to see...that will never happen...is to have the entire MAC drop back down to FCS, have the MVFC trade Youngstown State for Northern Illinois, and set up a scheduling "challenge" like we do with the Big Sky.

EDIT - here's a bit more data...the MAC team's reported expenses and revenues for football in 2015 (most recent data set available): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vsxBsm2-ymce26vd_lCvQDrfwpOZSZvHNyPQ29HGNAk/edit?usp=sharing

[Twentysix]

That's an entire list of schools that should be fcs. My God NDSU has more right to the FBS than every single school on that list.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Pinnum]

EDIT - here's a bit more data...the MAC team's reported expenses and revenues for football in 2015 (most recent data set available): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vsxBsm2-ymce26vd_lCvQDrfwpOZSZvHNyPQ29HGNAk/edit?usp=sharing

I assume this is EADA data which is the worst set of data you can get.

Notice how all of the revenue and expenses offset perfectly to zero?

No one in college athletics pays attention to the EADA data. It was set up by people who have no clue about college athletics. The NCAA Financial Statements are the real ones as they have reporting standards that actually apply to college athletics and are reviewed each year with new standards being adopted for the changing landscape. Unfortunately, most of those are not released publicly.

[ST_Lawson]

I assume this is EADA data which is the worst set of data you can get.

Notice how all of the revenue and expenses offset perfectly to zero?

No one in college athletics pays attention to the EADA data. It was set up by people who have no clue about college athletics. The NCAA Financial Statements are the real ones as they have reporting standards that actually apply to college athletics and are reviewed each year with new standards being adopted for the changing landscape. Unfortunately, most of those are not released publicly.

It is, and I know the data is crap, but it's the best I can do. Generally I only use it to look at the total expenses to get a general sense of how much a school puts into its football program. I know that they all fudge the revenue numbers to make it look like they're not losing money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk