Article arguing that the Ivies need to participate in the FCS Tournament

[Go...gate]

http://www.centraljersey.com/sports/princeton-pu-football-deserved-playoff-shot/article_148fa6c8-b7d4-11e6-8ca5-1fb07e96017e.html

[dudeitsaid]

http://www.centraljersey.com/sports/princeton-pu-football-deserved-playoff-shot/article_148fa6c8-b7d4-11e6-8ca5-1fb07e96017e.html

Those are good points. I don't know anything about Ivy league athletics and politics, tradition, etc involved, but the writer seems to point out some pretty blatant double standards in the approach to virtually every other sport as compared to football.

[bonarae]

Great points, but when are the Presidents going to take action? xchinscratchx xdontknowx

[Go Green]

Great points, but when are the Presidents going to take action? xchinscratchx xdontknowx

When Harvard says that they want to play in the playoffs, the Ivy presidents will take action.

[Ivytalk]

When Harvard says that they want to play in the playoffs, the Ivy presidents will take action.
Won't happen anytime soon. Drew Faust is too busy shaming final clubs and randy soccer players to care about football.

[ASU33]

Do the Ivies still not have a conference tournament for basketball also?

[EdubAlum]

Are the Ivy league teams worried about some reputation of being roasted by Directional Midwest State University or something? I always that was what i assumed was the primary reason for not participating.

[Go Green]

Do the Ivies still not have a conference tournament for basketball also?

This year will be the first year we have a basketball tournament.

[Go Green]

Are the Ivy league teams worried about some reputation of being roasted by Directional Midwest State University or something? I always that was what i assumed was the primary reason for not participating.

The rationales have changed over time.

None of them hold any water today (assuming they did at the time). Now, it's pretty much "that's the way we've always done it. It's a great tradition not playing in the postseason."

And no, I don't find that convincing either.

[NY Crusader 2010]

This year will be the first year we have a basketball tournament.

How many teams will qualify for it? I thought I remembered hearing it would just be top 2 or top 4?

[Go Green]

How many teams will qualify for it? I thought I remembered hearing it would just be top 2 or top 4?

Top 4. Harvard, Princeton, and Yale should be three of those teams. The fourth is anyone's guess.

This year it will be held at the Palestra in Philly. Whether or not that's the permanent venue, we rotate geographically, or do a PL-hosting way in future years remains to be seen.

[Serpentor]

The rationales have changed over time.

None of them hold any water today (assuming they did at the time). Now, it's pretty much "that's the way we've always done it. It's a great tradition not playing in the postseason."

And no, I don't find that convincing either.

When your tradition is only as old as the movie "Tron" it's not really that much of a tradition.

[Sycamore62]

The rationales have changed over time.

None of them hold any water today (assuming they did at the time). Now, it's pretty much "that's the way we've always done it. It's a great tradition not playing in the postseason."

And no, I don't find that convincing either.

We had a tradition of not participating in the playoffs for years but they expanded to 24 teams and we ended the tradition. Its possible we may be starting that tradition again.

[dgtw]

This is a good point. Has anyone ever brought this up before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redbird007]

The Ivies don't need to participate but it would be to their benefit and the entire FCS. I don't buy into the argument that they are fearful of losing to lesser schools. If that concept was true they would not play lesser schools in other sports. As some have mentioned they are stuck in time that no longer makes sense.

[Iridebikes]

Gee- who would've thought the the elitists in out society would have double standards? I'd love the see the Ivy league start to participate. ESPN puts some focus on the Ivy league each year and it would be nice to have that reflect on the rest of the FCS.

[Serpentor]

Gee- who would've thought the the elitists in out society would have double standards? I'd love the see the Ivy league start to participate. ESPN puts some focus on the Ivy league each year and it would be nice to have that reflect on the rest of the FCS.

It would be pretty funny to watch Eastern Washington run up the score on Yale.

[kdinva]

http://www.centraljersey.com/sports/princeton-pu-football-deserved-playoff-shot/article_148fa6c8-b7d4-11e6-8ca5-1fb07e96017e.html


xnodx xhurrayx

[ElCid]

The Ivies don't need to participate but it would be to their benefit and the entire FCS. I don't buy into the argument that they are fearful of losing to lesser schools. If that concept was true they would not play lesser schools in other sports. As some have mentioned they are stuck in time that no longer makes sense.

Other sports do not have the visibility that football does on a national scale. Basketball may come a little close, but the others, not anywhere close. I know lots of people who follow nothing but football and college football specifically. I do not follow any other sport, but college football and it is like 80-20 FCS-FBS. I may follow my own school's other teams, but do not follow the sport itself. Regardless of what some posters say, I still think that there is a hint of them not wanting to lose in a high profile game to some public school that was founded in 1967*. It is a marketing issue for them and not one of mere pride.

*If your public school was founded in 1967, this is coincidental and no direct or implied criticism was intended.

[Go Green]

I don't buy into the argument that they are fearful of losing to lesser schools. .

Good, because we play such schools all the time out of conference.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I don't think a lot of students out there are debating whether to go to Yale or Central Connecticut State (sorry to pick on them).

[OL FU]

Good, because we play such schools all the time out of conference.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I don't think a lot of students out there are debating whether to go to Yale or Central Connecticut State (sorry to pick on them).

Realizing the Ivies stopped post season play long before FCS or I-AA, I have assumed that lately it is more that they wouldn't not be competing at the highest level. Recognizing that the possibility of winning the basketball championship is low, they are still competing at the top level. Now, that is just a guess but it is the only one I can come up with other than the Ivy president's don't have a clue.

[Go Green]

Realizing the Ivies stopped post season play long before FCS or I-AA, I have assumed that lately it is more that they wouldn't not be competing at the highest level. Recognizing that the possibility of winning the basketball championship is low, they are still competing at the top level. Now, that is just a guess but it is the only one I can come up with other than the Ivy president's don't have a clue.

Rationales throughout the decades:

1) Didn't want to support segregation in bowl games in southern states

2) Didn't want to succumb to abuses/excesses of big-time football

3) Crucial missed class time.

4) Well, because that's the way we've always done it! (Current thinking).

Should also mention that for several years following the I-A/I-AA split, several Ivies were playing some pretty competitive schools OOC. We lost most of those games, but we didn't really shy away from that level of competition until the 1990s.

[RichH2]

This is merely the annual article arguing for Ivy to join the playoffs. One has appeared pretty much every year around this time. All raise the same valid arguments. Nothing has changed nor will it until Harvard and Yale consent. Both so far have remained pozzlingly insecure in the primacy of their little game in the face of NCAA playoffs.

[ElCid]

Rationales throughout the decades:

1) Didn't want to support segregation in bowl games in southern states

2) Didn't want to succumb to abuses/excesses of big-time football

3) Crucial missed class time.

4) Well, because that's the way we've always done it! (Current thinking).

Should also mention that for several years following the I-A/I-AA split, several Ivies were playing some pretty competitive schools OOC. We lost most of those games, but we didn't really shy away from that level of competition until the 1990s.

That is why I think it is an image thing. I remember those day when the Ivies still had games with some heavy hitters after the split. Rightly or wrongly, I always thought that they just couldn't let it go. They had been dropped a level and it didn't fit their image. The FCS playoffs have a bit more visibility, not much, but more than the regular season. They are some of the few games in the news right now. How would it look to be beat, or win, in early December against some school that most people have never even heard of? I think the class time is a much better reason. With a ten game schedule you already have supporting data.:D

[OL FU]

Rationales throughout the decades:

1) Didn't want to support segregation in bowl games in southern states

2) Didn't want to succumb to abuses/excesses of big-time football

3) Crucial missed class time.

4) Well, because that's the way we've always done it! (Current thinking).

Should also mention that for several years following the I-A/I-AA split, several Ivies were playing some pretty competitive schools OOC. We lost most of those games, but we didn't really shy away from that level of competition until the 1990s.

Don't take my comment the wrong way, I don't think there is a concern over losing to any type of schools. My post was simply the only rationale I could think of today. as far as those above.

1. I get it for years long gone
2. makes sense except that the same abuses exist in basketball
3. Is funny
4. Well yeah:)

Like I said the other one that came to me was that it isn't at the highest level. Don't mention it to them, they may start to use itxembarrassedx

[woffordgrad94]

They should. I don't understand why they don't. They participate in the NCAA basketball and baseball tourneys.

[Ivytalk]

When your tradition is only as old as the movie "Tron" it's not really that much of a tradition.

The Ivy "tradition" is as old as "Fred Ott's Sneeze."xcoffeex

[Go Green]

Don't take my comment the wrong way, I don't think there is a concern over losing to any type of schools. My post was simply the only rationale I could think of today. as far as those above.


3. Is funny




Indeed, especially given that with today's technology, you don't need to be physically present in the classroom to get the essence of what's being said (although it helps).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think what I don't understand about the Ivy League management is that they seem to want to believe they are truly national football programs, but then turn around and decline to participate in the only NCAA-sponsored postseason football tournament that would actually prove that they should be taken seriously at a national level. If they want to be truly provincial and schedule Babson, Central Connecticut State and MIT, they should do so and embrace the fact that the Ivy League is a provincial football conference playing provincial teams, and being very clear that that is what the leadership wants, and that's what the goals are for the football programs. However if they want to claim that they are nationally the best at anything, they need to at least send their champion to the FCS playoffs and discover where they stand.

Lehigh was not good enough to be FCS national champions this year. But Lehigh and the Patriot League at least have the stones to take the field and discover where they stand, and discover that Lehigh and the Patriot League need to get better in order to compete. This matters, and when matters of national rankings come out this year and next, Lehigh will be on there, while the Ivy League will not, because they are choosing to be invisible on the national stage.

[bulldog10jw]

Having this same discussion about the playoffs every year, knowing we will be having the same discussion next year, is futile and depressing. Just like the discussion every year for an 11th game.

[Redbird007]

Need a few more of the old stodgy ones to die off and MAYBE the new guard will change?

[UNIFanSince1983]

Indeed, especially given that with today's technology, you don't need to be physically present in the classroom to get the essence of what's being said (although it helps).

Lest we forget players in other sports miss WAY more class time than the football players would in the playoffs.

[Go Green]

Having this same discussion about the playoffs every year, knowing we will be having the same discussion next year, is futile and depressing. Just like the discussion every year for an 11th game.

Keep the faith. People said we'd never get a postseason basketball tournament either. But the advocates kept at it year after year.

:)

[Bogus Megapardus]

Good, because we play such schools all the time out of conference.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I don't think a lot of students out there are debating whether to go to Yale or Central Connecticut State (sorry to pick on them).

True. But they are debating whether to go to Colgate or Lehigh instead of Cornell or Columbia. So we have that going for us . . . which is nice. :D

[aceinthehole]

I just think Ivy League football is very special to those universities and their alumni, so they just don't want tarnish it in any way by playing non-traditional foes.

Yale has absolutely no problem scheduling (and losing) to Central Connecticut State in any number of sports. We appear on their schedule regularly in a lot of sports - soccer, basketball, baseball, softball, track, volleyball, golf. They even travel to New Britain for games (although their facilities in New Haven are so much nicer), but I'm not sure we will ever see CCSU play a football game in the Yale Bowl. That appears to be a change too far.

[bonarae]

I believe it is more of an image problem surrounding Ivy League football now. They have been moving away from the changes that we want over the years. I don't think it may change, but someday we'll know... xbawlingx

Look at the HBCUs and some D2's, although both differ towards their playoff stances (the former, although only in D1, prefers a bowl between their conferences' champions and the latter's teams in that group play all-conference schedules), they still care about postseason football.

[bonarae]

However, Harvard and Yale need sweeping changes in the leadership to change their stance towards football, unfortunately. They also need faculty support as well.

I do believe, though, that there will be a time that such arguments are no longer necessary. xprayx

[DFW HOYA]

It will change when Harvard says so.

Scholarships didn't come to the PL because of Fordham. In the PL, the buy-in from Lehigh sealed the deal.

Thus it will be in the Ancient Eight. If H-Y can live with a weekend of football outside the Game, it gets done.

[Redbird007]

Harvard plays Rhode Island which is a non-ivy FCS school. albeit a very weak one in terms of football.

[cx500d]

http://www.centraljersey.com/sports/princeton-pu-football-deserved-playoff-shot/article_148fa6c8-b7d4-11e6-8ca5-1fb07e96017e.html

I made that argument on some board here where people were complaining about 6-5 teams in the playoffs. I said if the NCAA would require all teams sanctioned under NCAA to participate in tournaments if they qualify, then that problem would be solved. Of course then the arguments start in SOS....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sader87]

I predict more leagues will opt out of the FCS playoffs (looking at the Patriot and Pioneer) before another league (Ivy) opts into them.

[ngineer]

Those are good points. I don't know anything about Ivy league athletics and politics, tradition, etc involved, but the writer seems to point out some pretty blatant double standards in the approach to virtually every other sport as compared to football.

This is not beating a dead horse but stomping on its grave. We've been down this road for years ad nauseum. Until the ol fart Presidents change their "philosophy" regardless of the arbitrary, double-standard, mindless, mental masturbation decisions they make people are pissing in the wind.

[ngineer]

I predict more leagues will opt out of the FCS playoffs (looking at the Patriot and Pioneer) before another league (Ivy) opts into them.

Can't disagree with that. That was considered back in the late 80's when the league was formed. We did not participate, if I recall, for a couple years in the FCS (then IAA playoffs). There were discussions to have some kind of "bowl game" between the PL and IL champs the Saturday after Thanksgiving for some kind of trophy.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I predict more leagues will opt out of the FCS playoffs (looking at the Patriot and Pioneer) before another league (Ivy) opts into them.

Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh sure as hell aren't opting out. With that said, the league needs to increase their commitment to the playoffs to make their participation more worth while imo.....

[BucBisonAtLarge]

The PL hijack of an Ivy thread has been attained. xcoffeex

[TheValleyRaider]

The PL hijack of an Ivy thread has been attained. xcoffeex

It's not too hard. An Ivy thread is already subliminally about us anyway xcoolx :p

[DFW HOYA]

Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh sure as hell aren't opting out. With that said, the league needs to increase their commitment to the playoffs to make their participation more worth while imo.....

Short of redshirting, what more needs to be done? The PL already has three teams in the top 10 in budget, five in the top 20 and six in the top 40.

[Go Green]

Short of redshirting, what more needs to be done? .

Toss the AI?

[Ivytalk]

It's not too hard. An Ivy thread is already subliminally about us anyway xcoolx :p
It's always about you.xcoffeex

[RichH2]

Need a few more of the old stodgy ones to die off and MAYBE the new guard will change?

Naah they breed. Stodgy Jrs all over the place :)

[RichH2]

It's not too hard. An Ivy thread is already subliminally about us anyway xcoolx :p

Yup they are so jealous :)

[Model Citizen]

Ivies much more likely to accept a bowl game than a commitment to a multiple week playoff. Rail against the school presidents all you like. That's the way it is.

Will they actually pull the trigger on a bowl game (Pioneer most likely partner)? Time will tell.

[dgtw]

Ivies much more likely to accept a bowl game than a commitment to a multiple week playoff. Rail against the school presidents all you like. That's the way it is.

Will they actually pull the trigger on a bowl game (Pioneer most likely partner)? Time will tell.

The winner could play the Celebration Bowl champ. Would be fun to see the opposing tailgate parties at that game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ivytalk]

Naah they breed. Stodgy Jrs all over the place :)
Juniors are for chumps! Unless you have a III ("Trey") or higher next to your name, forget about Bohemian Grove.xnodx

[Go...gate]

Toss the AI?

Not going to happen. I believe that was the trade-off to get scholarships done.

[Son of Eli]

Need a few more of the old stodgy ones to die off and MAYBE the new guard will change?


This is is my belief. I once asked my Uncle, a Yale alum who s 89 year old, to sign a petition to allow for Ivy League participation in the FCS playoffs. He refused. His stated reason was "it would attract the wrong element to the school." I love my Uncle, but that is the type of elitist thinking that has perpetuated this backwards policy. I think once those prejudices die off with the older generations the light of reason will prevail. That is, if there will be anyone left alive who still cares about Ivy football.

[Ivytalk]

This is is my belief. I once asked my Uncle, a Yale alum who s 89 year old, to sign a petition to allow for Ivy League participation in the FCS playoffs. He refused. His stated reason was "it would attract the wrong element to the school." I love my Uncle, but that is the type of elitist thinking that has perpetuated this backwards policy. I think once those prejudices die off with the older generations the light of reason will prevail. That is, if there will be anyone left alive who still cares about Ivy football.
The last sentence says it all. Ivy Millennials don't care a whit about football. The only Ivy game that still counts (in attendance and otherwise) is Harvard-Yale, and that's more of a social event than a FB game. I'd like to see them in the playoffs, but there's absolutely no momentum that way.

[Model Citizen]

The Patriot League seems very happy in the playoffs. The Ivy is not committing to a football tournament.

The Ivy might eventually agree to a bowl game with the PFL (the P stands for Pioneer, guys). Not an Ivy revival of the Gridiron Classic, but rather a December game, in Florida.

[Model Citizen]

From the league’s inception it has been a proponent of the creation of a non-scholarship football classification within Division I and adopted the moniker of Pioneer based on the intent to become the first league in that new division.

I took that from the PFL website. Obviously, there will not be a new, D-I non-scholarship classification. With regard to a non-scholarship D-I championship, an Ivy-PFL bowl would be the closest possible facsimile.

[Redbird007]

The Ivies have a unique history and status that allows them to do what they want when they want. It would be great/fun if they truly joined the FCS from every other non-Ivy school's perspective. The Ivy league is a football conference less some OOC practice games. I call the OOC games practice games as they have no meaning or significance.

[bonarae]

I agree; these practice games really have to go (in addition to JV games) if they really want to move forward towards playoff participation.

[DFW HOYA]

Not going to happen. I believe that was the trade-off to get scholarships done.

Why is the PL so attached to the Ivy Index? To the rest of I-AA, the Index reads as "we don't trust our own members to recruit."

[Go...gate]

Why is the PL so attached to the Ivy Index? To the rest of I-AA, the Index reads as "we don't trust our own members to recruit."

Because the Patriot League doesn't trust its own members to recruit, either. :D

[Go...gate]

The Ivies have a unique history and status that allows them to do what they want when they want. It would be great/fun if they truly joined the FCS from every other non-Ivy school's perspective. The Ivy league is a football conference less some OOC practice games. I call the OOC games practice games as they have no meaning or significance.

Plainly, Coach Murphy at Harvard feels that way. The Cantabs increasingly avoid strong OOC opponents. Also hard to forget this year's Harvard - Holy Cross game, when Murphy was accused of holding out one or more key players for Ivy play.

[bonarae]

Plainly, Coach Murphy at Harvard feels that way. The Cantabs increasingly avoid strong OOC opponents. Also hard to forget this year's Harvard - Holy Cross game, when Murphy was accused of holding out one or more key players for Ivy play.

Unfortunately, that plan backfired. Murphy has to retire at a bare minimum in order for Ivy football to progress. xcoffeex

Speaking of my earlier post (#61), JV games really have to go but then, the OOC games need to be stronger in ranking and in degree, not the practice games I'm used to seeing on many Ivies' schedules in recent memory.

[Ivytalk]

Plainly, Coach Murphy at Harvard feels that way. The Cantabs increasingly avoid strong OOC opponents. Also hard to forget this year's Harvard - Holy Cross game, when Murphy was accused of holding out one or more key players for Ivy play.
Fat lot of good it did him! This was the most mediocre Harvard squad in at least 15 years, especially offensively.

[NY Crusader 2010]

bonarae -- just wondering, what's wrong with playing JV games?

At Holy Cross we played JV games up until we went to scholarships, which reduced the allowable roster size and made these games impossible. Given that the Ivy League is never going to get scholarships, why is this an issue?

[Redbird007]

Plainly, Coach Murphy at Harvard feels that way. The Cantabs increasingly avoid strong OOC opponents. Also hard to forget this year's Harvard - Holy Cross game, when Murphy was accused of holding out one or more key players for Ivy play.

Since they do not participate in playoffs and only season reward for Ivy league team is the Ivy conference championship it truly does not matter if they win or lose OOC games...aka the OOC games are practice games.

[Sader87]

Since they do not participate in playoffs and only season reward for Ivy league team is the Ivy conference championship it truly does not matter if they win or lose OOC games...aka the OOC games are practice games.

In theory yes, but Holy Cross-Harvard, UNH-Dartmouth etc are games that have been played for generations....I think they are a tad more than "practice games."

[NY Crusader 2010]

In theory yes, but Holy Cross-Harvard, UNH-Dartmouth etc are games that have been played for generations....I think they are a tad more than "practice games."

Agreed. You could even look at it from our perspective and argue that during the era of the 16-team playoff, the PL was exclusively a one-bid league and therefore OOC games for Holy Cross and other league members meant nothing. However, if you ever attended an HC-Harvard or Cornell-Colgate game, you'd know these games do in fact mean something and have always meant something to the schools involved.

While I do wish the Ivies would diversify their schedules a bit more (Yale and Dartmouth have done this), it is clear that they do put an emphasis on scheduling OOC games that "matter" to players and alumni and have historical roots. In Harvard's case, a cupcake here and there doesn't hurt either.

[Lehigh'98]

Agreed. You could even look at it from our perspective and argue that during the era of the 16-team playoff, the PL was exclusively a one-bid league and therefore OOC games for Holy Cross and other league members meant nothing. However, if you ever attended an HC-Harvard or Cornell-Colgate game, you'd know these games do in fact mean something and have always meant something to the schools involved.

While I do wish the Ivies would diversify their schedules a bit more (Yale and Dartmouth have done this), it is clear that they do put an emphasis on scheduling OOC games that "matter" to players and alumni and have historical roots. In Harvard's case, a cupcake here and there doesn't hurt either. Not true

[Go Green]

I think they are a tad more than "practice games."

Muprhy's predecessors certainly treated OOC games as more than practice games.

[walliver]

The last sentence says it all. Ivy Millennials don't care a whit about football. The only Ivy game that still counts (in attendance and otherwise) is Harvard-Yale, and that's more of a social event than a FB game. I'd like to see them in the playoffs, but there's absolutely no momentum that way.I don't think that is an ivy specific problem. I have seen multiple studies that appear to show that millennials as a group have less interest in football than their predecessors. ESPN will find shots of excited students (usually attractive young women) to highlight during games, and there are still a number of college campi where football generates much excitement, but the concussion issue will not go away. Couple the concussion issue with the fact that football is essentially a male-only sport, and it wouldn't surprise me if a number of other leagues eventual adopt an Ivy-like approach (or even worse, drop football).

[DFW HOYA]

I don't think that is an ivy specific problem. I have seen multiple studies that appear to show that millennials as a group have less interest in football than their predecessors. ESPN will find shots of excited students (usually attractive young women) to highlight during games, and there are still a number of college campi where football generates much excitement, but the concussion issue will not go away.

Concussions aren't driving attendance either way. it's another issue entirely and one which is fixable. The current helmet design was driven by the mandate to reduce the risk of skull fractures. Well, mission accomplished, but it introduced other problems. Fix the helmet design and a lot of this problem is addressed over the longer term.

The problem is participation of any kind (athletic, academic, fraternal, social, etc.) is avoided by self-absorbed students. No one is going to look back on college and say, "I wished i had spent more time in the library on Saturday afternoons."

And it raises this inconvenient truth--attendance wanes at institutions that are either 1) consistently losing or playing unfamiliar or unpopular opponents. If FAU was hosting Florida, every kid would want to be there. A hone game with Ball State generates a big yawn.

I see this first hand every fall. Try explaining to a Georgetown student that hears about Syracuse and Villanova all year that he or she should get all their friends to watch a game with Fordham or Bucknell.

[Model Citizen]

1. ESPN Syndrome. Only the games they are paid to broadcast are cool.

2. Declining male enrollment. Baseline attendance for games at smaller FCS schools is now parents & girlfriends.

[Go Green]

I see this first hand every fall. Try explaining to a Georgetown student that hears about Syracuse and Villanova all year that he or she should get all their friends to watch a game with Fordham or Bucknell.

What's stopping you from scheduling Villanova?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Not true

Without looking it up, may I guess that we had two teams in the tourney in either 04 or 05 (if not both)?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Without looking it up, may I guess that we had two teams in the tourney in either 04 or 05 (if not both)?

1998, 1999, 2004 and 2005

Lehigh earned the "Woffed Award" in 2003.

[Franks Tanks]

1998, 1999, 2004 and 2005

Lehigh earned the "Woffed Award" in 2003.

Also 2013

[DFW HOYA]

What's stopping you from scheduling Villanova?

It takes two to schedule, you know. Some at Villanova would have sooner scheduled the College of Faith than Georgetown.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Also 2013

I was referencing the era of the 16-team playoff, in describing the PL as a perennial one-bid league (I was wrong). 2013 came after the playoff expansion though.

[Go Green]

It takes two to schedule, you know. Some at Villanova would have sooner scheduled the College of Faith than Georgetown.

If there's a reason why Nova avoids Georgetown, but is happy to play Penn every year, I'm not aware of it.

Seems to me that Nova-Georgetown would draw some buzz. Nova would win most games, of course.

[Franks Tanks]

I was referencing the era of the 16-team playoff, in describing the PL as a perennial one-bid league (I was wrong). 2013 came after the playoff expansion though.


Duh, my bad.

[JMUNJ08]

If there's a reason why Nova avoids Georgetown, but is happy to play Penn every year, I'm not aware of it.

Seems to me that Nova-Georgetown would draw some buzz. Nova would win most games, of course.

And Nova/ Georgetown could easily play a H-H since neither brings a large fan base...

[ngineer]

Why is the PL so attached to the Ivy Index? To the rest of I-AA, the Index reads as "we don't trust our own members to recruit."

Hey, it's still college football and even at "our level" shenanigans have been known to be pulled. I know for sure that we lost several prospective players to Penn because our Admissions office wouldn't admit them.

[Go Green]

And Nova/ Georgetown could easily play a H-H since neither brings a large fan base...

We will never know what could have been with Georgetown...

http://www.hoyafootball.com/history/whatif.htm

[Go...gate]

In theory yes, but Holy Cross-Harvard, UNH-Dartmouth etc are games that have been played for generations....I think they are a tad more than "practice games."

Not to mention Colgate-Cornell, Colgate-Brown, Colgate-Yale and Colgate-Princeton.

[Go...gate]

Concussions aren't driving attendance either way. it's another issue entirely and one which is fixable. The current helmet design was driven by the mandate to reduce the risk of skull fractures. Well, mission accomplished, but it introduced other problems. Fix the helmet design and a lot of this problem is addressed over the longer term.

The problem is participation of any kind (athletic, academic, fraternal, social, etc.) is avoided by self-absorbed students. No one is going to look back on college and say, "I wished i had spent more time in the library on Saturday afternoons."

And it raises this inconvenient truth--attendance wanes at institutions that are either 1) consistently losing or playing unfamiliar or unpopular opponents. If FAU was hosting Florida, every kid would want to be there. A hone game with Ball State generates a big yawn.

I see this first hand every fall. Try explaining to a Georgetown student that hears about Syracuse and Villanova all year that he or she should get all their friends to watch a game with Fordham or Bucknell.

But isn't Fordham truly a traditional rival of Georgetown's in Football?

[Model Citizen]

But isn't Fordham truly a traditional rival of Georgetown's in Football?

In what century?

[Go...gate]

In what century?

20th and 21st. A lot of the older Jesuit schools played each other in football going back many years.

[Sader87]

20th and 21st. A lot of the older Jesuit schools played each other in football going back many years.

If memory serves, I think Holy Cross used to play BC in football xdrunkyx

[Go...gate]

If memory serves, I think Holy Cross used to play BC in football xdrunkyx

Of course. I was simply focusing on the Fordham - Georgetown matchup, which was fought on the D-III level for a number of years after both schools dropped big-time FB.

[ngineer]

20th and 21st. A lot of the older Jesuit schools played each other in football going back many years.

Yes. U of Detroit was a big national power back in 1920's, but by the 50's was flagging and dropped the sport in 1964. I thought they might try and reinstate at FCS level when new stadium was built for lacrosse, but have not seen any movement in that direction.