NMSU to the Big Sky?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thought this deserves its own thread.

How serious is this? New Mexico State to the Big Sky?

If the Big Sky does pull the trigger, do they boot UND out of the conference, or add another team to get to an even number in the conference?

If they do get to an even number, do they split into two conferences?

Big Sky membership with Idaho is 14 football teams:

Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Idaho, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Weber State, North Dakota, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Northern Arizona, Portland State, Sacrament State.

New Mexico State would make it 15.

[clenz]

I'll bring my posts from the other thread..

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Where's the 16th coming from?

From west to east here are the options
San Diego - will they ever "man up" to scholarships. Seems like the best...only... logical fit. What does that do to the PFL?
ALL SOUTHLAND SCHOOLS - not going to get them out of the SLC and I can't imagine the Big Sky wants them
ALL SWAC SCHOOLS - not going to get them out of the SWAC and I can't imagine the Big Sky wants them
Missouri State isn't going to happenSouth Dakota - can't see them leaving SDSU/NDSU, especially not for the footprint and lack of rivals the Big Sky offers
South Dakota State - not leaving NDSU and the pair isn't going to leave the Summit/MVFC
North Dakota State - not leaving NDSU and the pair isn't going to leave the Summit/MVFC
Missouri State - they are FBS or bust when it comes to a move. They aren't leaving the coziness of the MVC for what the Big Sky is
Drake - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *deep breath* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Northern Iowa - see Drake but for different reasons that are more closely MSU related

After that you're into ****ing Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc...

If the Big Sky really wants 16 they better somehow talk San Diego into offering scholarships or let them play Big Sky ball with zero scholarships but we know that won't happen. We know how San Diego likes to hide how bad they are behind their gaudy PFL record.

Look at the map of FCS teams. They don't have an option https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?msa=0&mid=1wZjpvMmaDiOZ_LHCU1Q3U2OCUU0


I get what the Big Sky is doing, but they are strangling themselves. Let's pretend they add San Diego and New Mexico State, who the hell are they playing OOC? NDSU, SDSU, USD and UNI only have about 8 open dates between them in the OOC schedule, and 3 of those schools won't be bought for sure and I doubt the fourth would be.

They will be forced into the Southland issue of 1 FBS game and a sub D1 near every year to fill their schedules. Then for any other OOC game pray someone is willing to work a home and home or play another Big Sky team as OOC. Smart athletic departments will see how strangled Big Sky teams are for OOC games and use it against them for scheduling leverage.

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*this in regard to LFN asking if SLC were as loyol as I thought*

I have no idea if the Southland schools are loyal, but even if they weren't which of them are mutually attractive?
SFA's basketball program is attractive and the SLC/Big Sky are similar in stature.
For any other school it football would be an even move. Baseball would be hurt. Basketball adds nothing to the Big Sky Would the SLC keep a "spurned lover" in conference for baseball?
Travel costs, compared to what they are used too, would sky rocket. How many SLC programs are willing to do that?
What SLC teams would The Big Sky want? SFA? SHSU? ACU? UIW? HBU? The footprint issue becomes very real.
Loyal or not is that potential relationship worth it for both sides?

Another California school might be their best option. I know Twentysix, a couple weeks ago, pointed to UC-SD (or SB, don't remember) exploring the idea of football.

The only other thing that potentially makes sense is UND leaving for the Summit/MVFC. That seems like a pretty hard pill for UND to swallow with how things have gone the last decade


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*this in reply to a post about booting UND and adding NMSU*

I don't know that they can "boot them" but they can probably make it "attractive" to leave - waive exit fees, keep payouts from NCAA shares as normal until they expire per normal, etc...

Couple that with a Summit and MVFC invite and it may be the Big Sky's best option.

I still think NMSU is going to fight to hold on to the FBS "dream"

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[Mattymc727]

Would the MVFC even want UND if Big Sky booted them?

I dont think conferences would boot a loyal team for the sake of another just because they wanted to drop down from FBS. Even for such a powerhouse as New Mexico State...

[superman7515]

My sister went to NMSU and has a masters in anthropology from there, still living in Las Cruces working with the Tortugas people, and there's been no talk around campus of moving down. They don't seem very interested in moving to FBS, I'd actually think if they did move (and I don't expect them to) that they would lean more towards dropping it altogether.

This was just a couple of days ago...

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/blogs/cruces-sports-extra/2016/04/29/there-philosophical-differences-between-idahos-drop-fcs-and-new-mexico-states-future/83724144/

[clenz]

Would the MVFC even want UND if Big Sky booted them?

I dont think conferences would boot a loyal team for the sake of another just because they wanted to drop down from FBS. Even for such a powerhouse as New Mexico State...
Repost this again as it may have been missed since I was editing while this was posted.

I don't know that they can/would "boot them" but they can probably make it "attractive" to leave - waive exit fees, keep payouts from NCAA shares as normal until they expire per normal, etc...

Couple that with a Summit and MVFC invite and it may be the Big Sky's best option. Though, who knows what the bridge between UND/Summit/MVFC looks like right now.

I still think NMSU is going to fight to hold on to the FBS "dream"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll also add my thought from the other thread as well.

15 seems unworkable. clenz' thought that USD going to full scholarship FCS football could be an option, though nobody knows if USD has any appetite for it. The other (remote?) possibility is that another Cal school restarts football, like USCB, Pacific, or CS-Fullerton, or perhaps another.

I wonder if the possibility of the San Diego Chargers relocating to LA might be playing into this as well? If the Chargers leave there might be room for an FCS team to compete in the San Diego area.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My sister went to NMSU and has a masters in anthropology from there, still living in Las Cruces working with the Tortugas people, and there's been no talk around campus of moving down. They don't seem very interested in moving to FBS, I'd actually think if they did move (and I don't expect them to) that they would lean more towards dropping it altogether.

This was just a couple of days ago...

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/blogs/cruces-sports-extra/2016/04/29/there-philosophical-differences-between-idahos-drop-fcs-and-new-mexico-states-future/83724144/



It's a legitimate fear as some of the rhetoric that Idaho President Chuck Staben used on Thursday, basically downplaying the importance of college athletics, is not too far from words Carruthers himself has used in recent years and months. Carruthers has also tried to sell FCS football as something that people actually watch and identify with. Not to mention the fact that the Big Sky has only one postseason auto bid to split between 15 teams and neither Idaho or NMSU would likely challenge top tier Big Sky schools after a transition would be completed. This is not a slight to the top FCS programs in the country, but to put NMSU in that conversation is actually more of a longshot than the Aggies qualifying for a FBS bowl game.

That's a new one - we suck so bad that we can't possibly compete for the autobid, so we should stay in FBS and not compete for the postseason there! xlolx

[1992Bison]

Thought this deserves its own thread.

How serious is this? New Mexico State to the Big Sky?

If the Big Sky does pull the trigger, do they boot UND out of the conference, or add another team to get to an even number in the conference?

If they do get to an even number, do they split into two conferences?

Big Sky membership with Idaho is 14 football teams:

Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Idaho, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Weber State, North Dakota, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Northern Arizona, Portland State, Sacrament State.

New Mexico State would make it 15.

Send UND to the MVFC

[superman7515]

That's a new one - we suck so bad that we can't possibly compete for the autobid, so we should stay in FBS and not compete for the postseason there! xlolx

Of course, overlooking the entire part about the Big Sky being more expensive travel (with lower FBS payouts) and they would largely be ignored by playing lower level football since that's pretty much the only way they get any recruits there as it is (most of them have no other FBS offers at all and take NMSU as a last resort as it is).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Of course, overlooking the entire part about the Big Sky being more expensive travel (with lower FBS payouts) and they would largely be ignored by playing lower level football since that's pretty much the only way they get any recruits there as it is (most of them have no other FBS offers at all and take NMSU as a last resort as it is).

It would have been fine had they just left it at that and not brought in the fact that they didn't feel they would be competitive anywhere.

One interesting aspect that Idaho and NMSU share is that they are both the second-best FBS schools in their own states, which is why they haven't survived in FBS. New Mexico and Boise State have zero interest in relinquishing their monopoly power on the few recruits Idaho and New Mexico produce, and are quite happy to push Idaho and NMSU out of FBS altogether.

[PAllen]

With 15 or 16 teams in your conference, do you really need ooc games? If ooc options were really such an issue, they could just set up a 10 game conference slate and leave the last slot or two open for a money game, inter conference game, or sub d-i team.

[UNIFanSince1983]

With 15 or 16 teams in your conference, do you really need ooc games? If ooc options were really such an issue, they could just set up a 10 game conference slate and leave the last slot or two open for a money game, inter conference game, or sub d-i team.

The Big Sky already plays OOC games against conference teams.

[CrazyCat]

There are several other schools that I would drop before UND.

[mvemjsunpx]

The Big Sky already plays OOC games against conference teams.

Not all that many, though. The biggest plus to the conference expansion, IMO, is that the Big Sky has been playing more games against central/eastern FCS conferences. Prior to 2012, it seemed like Great West teams were just about the only FCS non-conference opponents.

[RootinFerDukes]

Unless fbs schools have a viable and top end Fcs conference to drop to, such as Idaho to the big sky, do us all a favor and just drop your program.

[dbackjon]

One advantage NMSU has is that UNM and UTEP will actually play them home and home in FBS

[Twentysix]

I'll bring my posts from the other thread..

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Where's the 16th coming from?

From west to east here are the options
San Diego - will they ever "man up" to scholarships. Seems like the best...only... logical fit. What does that do to the PFL?
ALL SOUTHLAND SCHOOLS - not going to get them out of the SLC and I can't imagine the Big Sky wants them
ALL SWAC SCHOOLS - not going to get them out of the SWAC and I can't imagine the Big Sky wants them
Missouri State isn't going to happenSouth Dakota - can't see them leaving SDSU/NDSU, especially not for the footprint and lack of rivals the Big Sky offers
South Dakota State - not leaving NDSU and the pair isn't going to leave the Summit/MVFC
North Dakota State - not leaving NDSU and the pair isn't going to leave the Summit/MVFC
Missouri State - they are FBS or bust when it comes to a move. They aren't leaving the coziness of the MVC for what the Big Sky is
Drake - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *deep breath* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Northern Iowa - see Drake but for different reasons that are more closely MSU related

After that you're into ****ing Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc...

If the Big Sky really wants 16 they better somehow talk San Diego into offering scholarships or let them play Big Sky ball with zero scholarships but we know that won't happen. We know how San Diego likes to hide how bad they are behind their gaudy PFL record.

Look at the map of FCS teams. They don't have an option https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?msa=0&mid=1wZjpvMmaDiOZ_LHCU1Q3U2OCUU0


I get what the Big Sky is doing, but they are strangling themselves. Let's pretend they add San Diego and New Mexico State, who the hell are they playing OOC? NDSU, SDSU, USD and UNI only have about 8 open dates between them in the OOC schedule, and 3 of those schools won't be bought for sure and I doubt the fourth would be.

They will be forced into the Southland issue of 1 FBS game and a sub D1 near every year to fill their schedules. Then for any other OOC game pray someone is willing to work a home and home or play another Big Sky team as OOC. Smart athletic departments will see how strangled Big Sky teams are for OOC games and use it against them for scheduling leverage.

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*this in regard to LFN asking if SLC were as loyol as I thought*

I have no idea if the Southland schools are loyal, but even if they weren't which of them are mutually attractive?
SFA's basketball program is attractive and the SLC/Big Sky are similar in stature.
For any other school it football would be an even move. Baseball would be hurt. Basketball adds nothing to the Big Sky Would the SLC keep a "spurned lover" in conference for baseball?
Travel costs, compared to what they are used too, would sky rocket. How many SLC programs are willing to do that?
What SLC teams would The Big Sky want? SFA? SHSU? ACU? UIW? HBU? The footprint issue becomes very real.
Loyal or not is that potential relationship worth it for both sides?

Another California school might be their best option. I know Twentysix, a couple weeks ago, pointed to UC-SD (or SB, don't remember) exploring the idea of football.

The only other thing that potentially makes sense is UND leaving for the Summit/MVFC. That seems like a pretty hard pill for UND to swallow with how things have gone the last decade


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*this in reply to a post about booting UND and adding NMSU*

I don't know that they can "boot them" but they can probably make it "attractive" to leave - waive exit fees, keep payouts from NCAA shares as normal until they expire per normal, etc...

Couple that with a Summit and MVFC invite and it may be the Big Sky's best option.

I still think NMSU is going to fight to hold on to the FBS "dream"

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Even if the vote in 2 weeks passes for UCSD. It will probably be 4-5 years before a football program *could* be established. If the bigsky takes NMSU, I think they would need a speedier solution.

UND to the MVFC seems like the most likely solution. But, IDK how that would go over anyway. I think UND would be embraced into the summit league, but idk about the MVFC. Personally, I'm all for it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just in: the answer seems to be "No":

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/nmsu/2016/05/05/chair-nmsu-football-staying-course-fbs/83978532/


LAS CRUCES - New Mexico State football will look to remain in the top tier of college athletics in 2018, according to Board of Regents Chair Debra Hicks.

[dbackjon]

Just in: the answer seems to be "No":

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/nmsu/2016/05/05/chair-nmsu-football-staying-course-fbs/83978532/

Meaning - we will give Independence a try, subsidized by body-bag games.

[jacksfan29]

Meaning - we will give Independence a try, subsidized by body-bag games.

I don't think the decision is shocking. NMSU is different than Idaho. If the Big12 expands NMSU may have a shot at getting back into the SBC or an outside shot at CUSA. They have good facilities (FB seats 30K), a very good BB program and, though isolated not to the extent that Idaho is. They have also never been FCS/1AA so dropping would have been much more painful. If I were them I would have done the same. Wait it out and see what transpires over the next few years.

[clenz]

I don't think the decision is shocking. NMSU is different than Idaho. If the Big12 expands NMSU may have a shot at getting back into the SBC or an outside shot at CUSA. They have good facilities (FB seats 30K), a very good BB program and, though isolated not to the extent that Idaho is. They have also never been FCS/1AA so dropping would have been much more painful. If I were them I would have done the same. Wait it out and see what transpires over the next few years.
I think they have a MWC, regardless how much UNM would fight it, after the B12 raids.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't think the decision is shocking. NMSU is different than Idaho. If the Big12 expands NMSU may have a shot at getting back into the SBC or an outside shot at CUSA. They have good facilities (FB seats 30K), a very good BB program and, though isolated not to the extent that Idaho is. They have also never been FCS/1AA so dropping would have been much more painful. If I were them I would have done the same. Wait it out and see what transpires over the next few years.

agree, it's probably best for them to try out the indy model for a couple years. It is still gonna be very much what dback hinted at though.

[El Cid 80]

Not sure that they are moving anywhere yet...

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/nmsu/2016/05/05/chair-nmsu-football-staying-course-fbs/83978532/

[F'N Hawks]

Not sure that they are moving anywhere yet...

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/nmsu/2016/05/05/chair-nmsu-football-staying-course-fbs/83978532/

Because of the potential resurrection of the WAC? That way they can say they were always FBS. No drop down.

[RootinFerDukes]

So what exactly is the big 12 waiting on if they want to expand? The big 12 baseball tourney to end? Lol
Just pull the trigger already, or is Texas saying no to every potential team?

[clenz]

So what exactly is the big 12 waiting on if they want to expand? The big 12 baseball tourney to end? Lol
Just pull the trigger already, or is Texas saying no to every potential team?
From what I gathered from the meetings last month they are trying to figure out scheduling for the sports for 12, 14 and 16 teams. How many conference games, who plays who, etc...

They are doing logistics before getting the members.

Sounds like that should be worked out by next month, or shortly there after, and then invites "officially go out".

Texas is also probably throwing a fit.

Watch them end up as an Indy before it's all done.

[Laker]

From what I gathered from the meetings last month they are trying to figure out scheduling for the sports for 12, 14 and 16 teams. How many conference games, who plays who, etc...

They are doing logistics before getting the members.

Sounds like that should be worked out by next month, or shortly there after, and then invites "officially go out".

Texas is also probably throwing a fit.

Watch them end up as an Indy before it's all done.

Now the Oklahoma Regents are opposing expansion.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/theres-infighting-at-oklahoma-over-potential-big-12-expansion/

[F'N Hawks]

Okie to the Big 10?

[clenz]

Okie to the Big 10?
If they don't want to expand the B12, they aren't joining as a 15th member of the B10.

[F'N Hawks]

If they don't want to expand the B12, they aren't joining as a 15th member of the B10.

If they don't want to expand the Big 12, does it mean they have plans on leaving the Big 12? That is what I was getting at. They have never seemed all that happy lately and the rumors of OU & Big 10 have been going on for awhile.

[Laker]

If they don't want to expand the Big 12, does it mean they have plans on leaving the Big 12? That is what I was getting at. They have never seemed all that happy lately and the rumors of OU & Big 10 have been going on for awhile.

I've heard all kinds of rumors. UT, Tech, OU & OSU to the Pac 12. OU and kansas to the BIG. Arkansas to the Big 12- although that makes the least sense of any of those rumors. And I don't trust anything that UT will do.

I think I'll read about Byzantine politics- this is about the same as that!

[uni88]

I've heard all kinds of rumors. UT, Tech, OU & OSU to the Pac 12. OU and kansas to the BIG. Arkansas to the Big 12- although that makes the least sense of any of those rumors. And I don't trust anything that UT will do.

I think I'll read about Byzantine politics- this is about the same as that!
Is OU a fit academically for the B1G? How interested would the B1G be in KU if they weren't interested in Mizzou? Would the PAC want Tech?

[Laker]

Is OU a fit academically for the B1G? How interested would the B1G be in KU if they weren't interested in Mizzou? Would the PAC want Tech?

I remember when it looked like Mizzou would go with the BIG. Then the bombshell with Nebraska joining stopped that. No idea about OU's academic fit- but wasn't that the school where the president once said, "I want a university that the football team can be proud of!"

They also have talks about how state legislatures wouldn't let one school go without the other. Thus, UT and OU going anywhere often gets the other schools mentioned. I don't understand it but I don't understand a lot of this. For example, Rutgers in the BIG..........

Conferences talk about academic fits, but when it comes down to it- $$$$. And we aren't near done with this shifting.

[AmsterBison]

If you listen to the Sirius college sports channel, the sole reason for college athletics is to supply content for media contracts. Since the Pac-12 and Big 12 don't have solid conference media contracts, they've got work to do. If they are left out, then the FBS is going to end up being the P2, the p3, and the G5 (or G6 if the WAC-y theory bears fruit - although is a conference without a bowl tie-in really an FBS conference?)

Also, apparently, the only things that matters for a school is the size of its local media market... because, apparently, college teams aren't watched outside of their immediate metro area.

[Twentysix]

Is OU a fit academically for the B1G? How interested would the B1G be in KU if they weren't interested in Mizzou? Would the PAC want Tech?

No. OU would be the worst school in the big ten, but the big ten did take Nebraska so who knows. KU is a better school than Mizzou (actually they are about the same), and KU basketball is a big draw.

Texas, Iowa State, and Kansas would be the three most likey BXII to B1G schools academically.

The academics in the BigXII are WAY WAY WAY worse than the big ten. Most big ten schools are top 100 universities world wide. Most of the big 12 are top 300-600 (the majority of the BigXII is barely better than NDSU academically)

I'll make a list for visual indication, give me 15 minutes to do it.

[Twentysix]

School
World ranking as of 2015



Big 10
Ranking

Big 12
Ranking









Michigan-Ann Arbor
19

Texas-Austin
30


Northwestern
22

Iowa State
187


Wisconsin-Madison
26

Kansas
196


Illinois Urbana-Champaign
33

Oklahoma
350


Purdue
43

Kansas State
353


Pennsylvania State
47

Oklahoma State
412


Minnesota
48

West Virginia
441


Ohio State-Columbus
49

Texas Tech
469


Rutgers
50

Baylor
567


Maryland-College Park
72

Texas Christian
1000+


Indiana-bloomington
106





Michigan State
118





Iowa
141





Nebraska
314















Former members:






Colorado-Boulder
54


Former members:


Texas A&M
102


University of Chicago
8

Missouri-Columbia
194





Nebraska-Lincoln
314









Associate member


Associate member



Johns Hopkins
16

Tennessee-Knoxville
227


Notre Dame
77

Alabama
409





Denver
428





Wyoming
466





Old Dominion
656





North Dakota State
792





Airforce
1000+





Northern Colorado
1000+





South Dakota State
1000+





Utah Valley
1000+




If anyone is interested in the ranking methodology: http://cwur.org/methodology/preprint.pdf

[Laker]

The list is interesting- but why is Air Force plus 1000? Seems out of whack.

[Twentysix]

Interesting note, UAB is a way better school than UAT, I didn't expect that.

- - - Updated - - -


The list is interesting- but why is Air Force plus 1000? Seems out of whack.

Airforce is not a top 1000 world university. They could be 1001 or any other position worse than that.

[Twentysix]

The list should show what I'm saying about OU being out of place (academically) in the B1G. Nebraska is a really weird outlier already and OU is worse than UNL.

[Laker]

The list should show what I'm saying about OU being out of place (academically) in the B1G. Nebraska is a really weird outlier already and OU is worse than UNL.

I read an article that UNL used to be ranked higher, but that agricultural research is no longer included under that category. Does anyone know if that is true? Agricultural research is very important- it feeds the world.

[Twentysix]

I read an article that UNL used to be ranked higher, but that agricultural research is no longer included under that category. Does anyone know if that is true? Agricultural research is very important- it feeds the world.

That was to maintain their AAU membership (An organization from which they were removed shortly after joining the B1G). For AAU membership, only competitive grants count towards annual research budgets. A substantial portion of Nebraska's research budget is non-competitive USDA grants. Grants do not factor into this ranking, but publications from grants do. Whether or not the grant was competitive has no bearing on this methodology.

[Twentysix]

I was going to make the academic ranking by conference for each FCS conference. But I started with the MVFC and quickly became defeated.

- - - Updated - - -



MVFC
Academic World Rankings as of 2015


School:
Ranking





Southern Illinois
590





North Dakota State
792





Illinois State
1000+





Indiana State
1000+





Missouri State
1000+





Northern Iowa
1000+





South Dakota
1000+





South Dakota State
1000+





Western Illinois
1000+





Youngstown State
1000+



















Former members:






Eastern Illinois
1000+





Western Kentucky
1000+




















If anyone is interested in the ranking methodology:http://cwur.org/methodology/preprint.pdf

[Twentysix]

Since this is a Big Sky thread, I'll do it for them too.



Big Sky
Academic World Rankings as of 2015


School:
Ranking




Montana State
556




Montana
585




Idaho
655




Portland State
661




Northern Arizona
766




North Dakota
913




Eastern Washington
1000+




Idaho State
1000+




Northern Colorado
1000+




Cal State-Sacramento
1000+




Southern Utah
1000+




Weber State
1000+










Football only:





California-Davis
53




California Polytechnic
1000+










Former members





Nevada-Reno
454




Cal State-Northridge
1000+




Gonzaga
1000+




Boise State
1000+






If anyone is interested in the ranking methodology:http://cwur.org/methodology/preprint.pdf

[Thumper 76]

I was going to make the academic ranking by conference for each FCS conference. But I started with the MVFC and quickly became defeated.

- - - Updated - - -



MVFC
Academic World Rankings as of 2015


School:
Ranking





Southern Illinois
590





North Dakota State
792





Illinois State
1000+





Indiana State
1000+





Missouri State
1000+





Northern Iowa
1000+





South Dakota
1000+





South Dakota State
1000+





Western Illinois
1000+





Youngstown State
1000+



















Former members:






Eastern Illinois
1000+





Western Kentucky
1000+




















If anyone is interested in the ranking methodology:http://cwur.org/methodology/preprint.pdf

This is fun because of how ****ing nose in the air USD grads are about having the law and business schools xlolx

[clenz]

The fun part about those rankings? They are like Rivals/Scout/24-7/etc... rankings. Outside of the top 250-300 they really don't mean much - especially outside of the academic research world

I have never turned a resume in and gotten "Oh, you went to Northern Iowa? I'm sorry, that schools ranking isn't good enough. We are looking for someone from a school rated under 600"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I was going to make the academic ranking by conference for each FCS conference

Finally, now we Patriot League folks can take over this thread

[Twentysix]

Finally, now we Patriot League folks can take over this thread

Haha, I was waiting for a Patriot or Ivy league person to come in and say that.

- - - Updated - - -


The fun part about those rankings? They are like Rivals/Scout/24-7/etc... rankings. Outside of the top 250-300 they really don't mean much - especially outside of the academic research world

I have never turned a resume in and gotten "Oh, you went to Northern Iowa? I'm sorry, that schools ranking isn't good enough. We are looking for someone from a school rated under 600"

Except in major conference realignment :p

The rankings show how much of a weirdo UNL is in the B1G. It also shows that academically only 3 schools in the BigXII are viable for B1G expansion: KU, UT, and Iowa State. Outside of these three, the BigXII, academically, is a flaming trash can. Of course I think that these three schools are removed from consideration for other reasons. Or in the case of Texas which removes itself from consideration.

[BisonFan02]

The fun part about those rankings? They are like Rivals/Scout/24-7/etc... rankings. Outside of the top 250-300 they really don't mean much - especially outside of the academic research world

I have never turned a resume in and gotten "Oh, you went to Northern Iowa? I'm sorry, that schools ranking isn't good enough. We are looking for someone from a school rated under 600"

This.....

[clenz]

This.....
Finally did a quick glance of the method. This ranking is probably great for research focused institutions but outside of that it's a TERRIBLE measure of the quality of education a school provides.

For those not wanting to read the entire methodology here's the key points they rank:

1. How many research articles your faculty is publishing in the science, social science and humanities fields in "top" journals, not just total in all journals. Not only how many articles are published, but the number of times that study is cited by other studies or journals.

2. How many patents your faculty has applied for

3. Number of faculty members of an institution whohave won, in addition to the Nobel Prize and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, thefollowing awards, medals, and prizes covering virtually all academic disciplines: Abel Prize, Balzan Prize,Charles Stark Draper Prize, Crafoord Prize, Dan David Prize, Fields Medal, Fundamental Physics Prize,Holberg International Memorial Prize, Japan Prize, Kavli Prize, Kluge Prize, Kyoto Prize, MillenniumTechnology Prize, Praemium Imperiale, Pritzker Prize, Shaw Prize, Schock Prize, Templeton Prize, TuringAward, Wolf Prize, and World Food Prize (this list could be modified in the future if necessary). Also, mentioned in another

4. The weighted number of an institution’s alumni whocurrently hold CEO positions at the world’s top 2000 public companies (from Forbes top 2000) relative to the institution’s size.

I'm not going to discuss the formula to get the rankings but that's the criteria. Essentially that ranking renders anything that isn't a large, well endowed, research insitution worthless. A school like UNI, is considered dog **** to these people. UNI has been around since 1876 but wasn't a university until 1969. It's got an education program that is very, very, well respected nationally. It has the nations first accredited mental health counseling masters program that is consistently ranked in the top 5-10 nationally. It has an award winning business/accounting program that is widely considered one of the best. None of that matters to this system because our biology professors spend their time teaching courses rather than having TA's teach while they do research.

You went to/go to a smaller private college? It's complete ****. Doesn't matter what they taught you. Doesn't matter what you leave knowing. Doesn't matter that the connections a small school can/does lead you to have the ability to jump start your career more than having "Michigan" on your diploma. Your institution is **** because you aren't researching 24/7.

That's what those rankings are about. They aren't about rankings the quality of education revived by students. It's a dick measuring contest for tenured faculty that know they can't get fired.


To say things like "I started with the MVFC and quickly became defeated" is asinine. The missions of the vast majority of the MVFC, or FCS, or even 99% of institutions in America isn't research. It isn't patent cultivation. They are about teaching. They are about developing rounded students. If you truly believe the quality of education at SIU is that much better than UNI you're ****ing high. Hell, Iowa and Iowa state are both top 200 universities. If you truly believe the quality of education at those two is that much better than UNI, outside of the research areas that UI (law and medicine) and ISU (veterinary and ag), you're delusional. The number of people that I took classes with at UNI - graduate and undergraduate level - that transferred in from Iowa or Iowa State that said the UNI classes and demands were tougher is astronomical.

All professors at UNI do research, but it's not their main focus. Big deal. I had one professor that did focus on research significantly more than others. He couldn't connect with students and most hated his classes. I loved them, then again I loved his area of research and worked with him on a few small things. He probably could/should have had a TA but didn't because he didn't want to miss the opportunity to influence students. He got his MA in Marriage and Family Therapy at UCONN, his PhD. at UW-Madison and he is a post doc research fellow for the University of Michigan. If you think he couldn't teach at pretty much any institution he wanted then I can't help you.

I won't stop you, or judge you, for loving academic research dick measuring contests, but the reality is that outside of specific fields within the mathematics, law, or science/medical fields those rankings don't mean much. In the real world when looking at job applicants for 99% of jobs those rankings don't mean ****.