Attendance outliers

[Pinnum]

I curious what programs are attendance outliers.

What I mean by this, is what programs attendance is not indicative of their on the field performance.

-Teams that draw fans despite not having a lot of success.
-Teams that have poor attendance despite having regular success.

[RootinFerDukes]

I could name names in my conference, but this will just turn into a pissing match. You could argue all teams not named JMU.

[Catsfan90]

I could name names in my conference, but this will just turn into a pissing match. You could argue all teams not named JMU.
I'll do it for you. UNH has poor attendance, but it is definitely better than years past. Hopefully with the new stadium it improves!

[ST_Lawson]

Well, as a conference, the SWAC does very well with attendance despite not having a great deal of on-field success. Last year, the SWAC as a whole averaged 12,781 per home game, which made it the #1 conference for attendance. This is likely in large part to:
1. Many of the teams play in fairly large stadiums...including a 62k seat stadium and 5 20k+ seat stadiums
2. Football games for many HBCU schools are really more of an event/party than elsewhere. People show up to have a good time, see their friends, enjoy the bands, and also enjoy a football game...but for the most part, the fans will show up regardless of how the team is doing.

[REALBird]

Well, as a conference, the SWAC does very well with attendance despite not having a great deal of on-field success. Last year, the SWAC as a whole averaged 12,781 per home game, which made it the #1 conference for attendance. This is likely in large part to:
1. Many of the teams play in fairly large stadiums...including a 62k seat stadium and 5 20k+ seat stadiums
2. Football games for many HBCU schools are really more of an event/party than elsewhere. People show up to have a good time, see their friends, enjoy the bands, and also enjoy a football game...but for the most part, the fans will show up regardless of how the team is doing.

How much of that is skewed by the Circle City Classic and Chicago Classic and every other classic game held in an NFL stadium, attended by HBCU alums, Greek Letter Organization Alumni, and subsidized by corporate sponsorship? Just curious.

[Pinnum]

The SWAC is kind of along the lines of what I was thinking. I didn't really say national or conference success and left it open to try to get some feedback on programs that I may not be aware of... One of the things that made me start thinking about it was Liberty's loss to Monmouth where they played in front of only 1,700 fans in NJ. I know in college basketball attendance can change a lot from conference to conference and team to team within a conference and is not always indicative of success nationally or within the conference. I was wondering if there were similar phenomenon in FCS.

[Pinnum]

How much of that is skewed by the Circle City Classic and Chicago Classic and every other classic game held in an NFL stadium, attended by HBCU alums, Greek Letter Organization Alumni, and subsidized by corporate sponsorship? Just curious.

Neither of those events were SWAC events...

[RootinFerDukes]

I'll do it for you. UNH has poor attendance, but it is definitely better than years past. Hopefully with the new stadium it improves!

Well I realized unh is actually not doing bad considering all that you have around your program. You're seeing an upward trend into the mid-teens, I think. That's respectable for Fcs football in New England where pro sports in Boston reign supreme. You all have just been so consistent for over a decade and are the state flagship that I'm surprised you didn't see higher attendance sooner.

[RootinFerDukes]

How much of that is skewed by the Circle City Classic and Chicago Classic and every other classic game held in an NFL stadium, attended by HBCU alums, Greek Letter Organization Alumni, and subsidized by corporate sponsorship? Just curious.

Yeah I've watched some of these games on tv and it'll say 35k but I'm thinking, "there's no way there was really that many people". If these neutral site games are counting as a "home game" for one of the teams too... Yeah, no.

[Professor Chaos]

Last year CCU was a top 5 team the whole season but finished outside the top 30 in the FCS in average attendance at 8,729 (slightly behind UNH). Good thing they're going to the Sun Belt. xrolleyesx

[Sitting Bull]

I could name names in my conference, but this will just turn into a pissing match. You could argue all teams not named JMU.

I think you need to consider school size as well, at least partially.

As example, is a crowd of 7,000 at little VMI actually more impressive than 20.000 at a school with 20,000 students, like JMU?

[ST_Lawson]

I think you need to consider school size as well, at least partially.

As example, is a crowd of 7,000 at little VMI actually more impressive than 20.000 at a school with 20,000 students, like JMU?

That'd be something interesting to compare...home attendance vs school size. Also attendance vs population of the town/city/metro area would also be interesting.

For example, Western has averaged 7,669 fans per home game so far this year. Total students at Western in Fall of 2015 is 9,560. As of the 2013 census, Macomb has 19,265 people (although quite a few of those are students). So, our average home attendance is 80.1% of our student headcount. I'd guess most schools would probably fall somewhere in the 80%-120% range, but that's just a guess.

[RootinFerDukes]

I think you need to consider school size as well, at least partially.

As example, is a crowd of 7,000 at little VMI actually more impressive than 20.000 at a school with 20,000 students, like JMU?

Additionally, you need to take into account a school's location. If you have pitiful attendance in an area with a large population, that looks bad. Rural schools bringing in big crowds that predominantly have to travel several hours to home games looks much better.
You could also argue that in larger areas, there's more sports competition that an FCS school is not going to compete with 95% of the time. Finally, there's just a national trend at both FBS and FCS of declining attendance. Fans are getting cheaper and lazier with technology.

[veinup]

Last year CCU was a top 5 team the whole season but finished outside the top 30 in the FCS in average attendance at 8,729 (slightly behind UNH). Good thing they're going to the Sun Belt. xrolleyesx

all of that is so crazy.

[Daytripper]

SHSU has a little over 20,000 students. Huntsville is a relatively small town...about 40,000. Walker County has about 60,000 people. Not counting Battle of the Piney Woods, we are averaging about 7700 per game. That does include the rainy game this last weekend where attendance was especially low.

With our enrollment and population...we are below average. We need to do better.

[bostonspider]

UR has averaged 8,048 through 3 games in a stadium that holds 8,700. I would think that homecoming this weekend should be close to a sell out and the final game versus W&M will sell out. But UR only has 3,000 Undergrads, so it is always an uphill battle, smaller stadium or not.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I also think taking into consideration the size of the stadium. I mean Chaos said that CCU only averaged 8,729 people, but the stadium also only holds 9,214.

So they really couldn't average much more because of the stadium. I always like to look at % of capacity when looking at numbers as opposed to just pure attendance because not all stadiums are the same size.

[RootinFerDukes]

SHSU has a little over 20,000 students. Huntsville is a relatively small town...about 40,000. Walker County has about 60,000 people. Not counting Battle of the Piney Woods, we are averaging about 7700 per game. That does include the rainy game this last weekend where attendance was especially low.

With our enrollment and population...we are below average. We need to do better. The biggest thing working against southland schools is that many of them are located in the state of texas. there are many eyes focused on bigger teams. when i lived in houston, it was texas and texas a&m. even baylor, tcu and texas tech were overlooked. the only reason why i had heard of UH and Rice was because they were local.

[UNIFanSince1983]

The biggest thing working against southland schools is that many of them are located in the state of texas. there are many eyes focused on bigger teams. when i lived in houston, it was texas and texas a&m. even baylor, tcu and texas tech were overlooked. the only reason why i had heard of UH and Rice was because they were local.

Or Louisiana where the only team people care about is LSU.

[Gate83]

I think you need to consider school size as well, at least partially.

As example, is a crowd of 7,000 at little VMI actually more impressive than 20.000 at a school with 20,000 students, like JMU?

Interesting topic. By this standard some of the Patriot League schools stack up pretty well given enrollments of 3,000 or less. Still doesn't make it very impressive to be in a half empty stadium Andy Kerr stadium on a Saturday afternoon! If anyone wants to look at reported NCAA figures... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2014.pdf

[Sam_Kats]

As much as I hate it, Sam Houston is the epitome of what you're talking about & it's because of the following reasons (these are my opinions):

- We will ALWAYS be a small fish in a VERY BIG pond. The state of Texas has some of the best venues to watch a game in the country (Texas A&M's Kyle Field, UT, new Baylor Stadium, Jones-AT&T @ Texas Tech, TDECU Stadium @ UH, and several more. Folks would rather soak in THAT kind of college atmosphere if dropping the $$, time, fuel, hotel on a game.

- For whatever reason, our Athletic Dept will not grasp that we are a niche market & some 'outside the box' marketing MUST be done (a successful minor league baseball program is the best example I can come up with) in order to pack the house every now & then. Our AD seems to be content with just opening the gates & letting the same 9-10k fill the stands (on a good day)...even though we just hit 20k enroll. It's frustrating the lack of effort portrayed by the folks leading our programs OFF the field. Again, not indicative of our status ON the field. Not even CLOSE!!

- This is the one that everyone faces but the in-home TV experience has just gotten so much better in the last 4-5 years. I mean, the World Series STOPPED last night because MLB relies on the live broadcast for replay purposes!! I'm in the communications biz & with OTT solutions, ability to watch from every device in the home & the quality of picture on EVERY TV now-a-says, it's simply too easy to make the decision to stay home with the family & enjoy it on the back patio with some cold brews & not have to worry about the trip home plus save the $$

[PAllen]

UNH, Villanova, Colgate are/were in the really good but nobody came to see category.

[eiu1999]

Hmm, here's EIU attendance in Garoppolo's last year and the year immediately afterward....

2013:
10741
11469
6939
6693
4825
3850 (Towson playoff)

2014:
9155
9169
8289
3693
2170

[GAD]

Well, as a conference, the SWAC does very well with attendance despite not having a great deal of on-field success. Last year, the SWAC as a whole averaged 12,781 per home game, which made it the #1 conference for attendance. This is likely in large part to:
1. Many of the teams play in fairly large stadiums...including a 62k seat stadium and 5 20k+ seat stadiums
2. Football games for many HBCU schools are really more of an event/party than elsewhere. People show up to have a good time, see their friends, enjoy the bands, and also enjoy a football game...but for the most part, the fans will show up regardless of how the team is doing.
2. Is not true at all at Southern our average dipped to about 11-12K per game during the 2011-12 seasons now that we are winning again we average over 20K

Alcorn can tell a similar story their average dipped to around 5K when they were losing it was around 12-14K when they were championship contenders

[tenNesseeCat]

I don't know if it's true, but I once heard that WCU was the only D1 school located in an unincorporated "town." We could do better, but WCU is 2nd in the SoCon in attendance this year (10,500ish). Had some poor weather for 2 games that hurt the numbers some. Cullowhee is around 10,000 in population, has to be with students. Sylva is around 2,500. Jackson Co. is only around 40,000. Closest real "city" is Asheville, at 83k and 45 minutes away. Our location is a huge selling point, but it is also a barrier in many ways. Basically WCU is Cullowhee and Cullowhee is WCU. When you come through Catamount Gap, you see the town of WCU. This image should give you an understanding.
http://gohendersoncountync.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/scenicview.jpg

[ElCid]

I think The Citadel had done great over the years for being so small. With a student body of 2000-2100 cadets in the early 90s to early 2000s, and now with about 2250 cadets and 400 non cadets (veterans, active duty, etc.) as undergrads (they are not likely to attend anyway) we have always done well, until lately. My class (85) only had about 400 grads. Lately classes have been a bit bigger, but with only 400-500 grads each year, the attendance is pretty good. There are never more than about 22,000 to 24,000 living grads at any given time.

From 1999-2006 The Citadel had an average attendance of 13,940. In that same time we went 28-60 (Home 22-19), a pretty bad record. From 2007-2014 we had an average of 12,440 per game while going a little better at 39-52 (Home 25-21). Usually good enough to be in the top 25 FCS attendance figures.

We are actually ticking down this year in attendance (so far) while we are having a great year to date 5-2 (Home 3-1). Go figure. 9,785 average to date with 4 games but considering that one was a holiday weekend, and at least 2 of the others were preceded by afternoon downpours, I think it will pick up. I have also heard rumors that we are no longer counting the Corps of Cadets this year but I can't seem to get confirmation from a definitive source. If true, then that would account for about 1900-2000 less, figuring on about 200-300 excused.

Our biggest home crowd was 23,025 on 17 Oct 92 when we played Marshall. 3 of the top 10 attended games were in 1992 when we went 11-2. What is also interesting is that when Navy came to Charleston in 1988, in an uncharacteristic FBS visit, their game is only #9 on our all-time highest attendance list.

[GAD]

Or Louisiana where the only team people care about is LSU.
Southern is about a 10 minute drive from LSU we have led FCS in attendance several times, if people are interested in your games they will show up

[Mattymc727]

UNH has had low attendance numbers compared to the FCS, but when it came to percentage of capacity, it did pretty well. The old Cowell stadium sat 6500, and UNH averaged more than that per game. It will be interesting to see if with the doubling of the stadium capacity, attendance sticks beyond 10-12k. The hope is with more seats and better digs, more people will come out and buy season tickets. TBD if that will actually happen. There is a big marketing campaign to pre sell season tickets in the new stadium right now.

Also, we beat this dead horse enough times, but Maine and any New England schools have the same problem. College sports just dont have the pull compared to the south. And yes, to us, if you are south of Maryland, you are in the South.

[Nickels]

Southern is about a 10 minute drive from LSU we have led FCS in attendance several times, if people are interested in your band they will show up
fify

[BluBengal07]

here we go againxcoffeex

[dcpsujag]

here we go againxcoffeex
I was thinking the same thing.

[Daytripper]

I don't know if it's true, but I once heard that WCU was the only D1 school located in an unincorporated "town." We could do better, but WCU is 2nd in the SoCon in attendance this year (10,500ish). Had some poor weather for 2 games that hurt the numbers some. Cullowhee is around 10,000 in population, has to be with students. Sylva is around 2,500. Jackson Co. is only around 40,000. Closest real "city" is Asheville, at 83k and 45 minutes away. Our location is a huge selling point, but it is also a barrier in many ways. Basically WCU is Cullowhee and Cullowhee is WCU. When you come through Catamount Gap, you see the town of WCU. This image should give you an understanding.
http://gohendersoncountync.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/scenicview.jpg


Nice campus....xnodx

[Pinnum]

Nice campus....xnodx

Thanks for posting, tenNesseeCat. I have never been in that neck of the woods. Have any pictures with the fall foliage?

[tenNesseeCat]

This is the view from Waterrock Knob Overlook on the Blue Ridge Parkway a few weeks back before the Mercer game. The change was just starting. this is looking down toward Cullowhee.
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12072697_10153327403708757_8240913777157915122_n.j pg?oh=39adf640cc85d8d6a8219d9cae3f5142&oe=5684A3C2
here are some good ones from around the area.

Graveyard Fields on the parkway.
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a6/d7/25/a6d72544a90700f7e3e054451df93bfe.jpg
Richland Balsam looking toward Cullowhee in my favorite time! full green
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/794883.jpg

[tenNesseeCat]

E.J. Whitmire from the east side, my favorite.

http://news-prod.wcu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Enrollment-for-web.jpg

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I don't know if it's true, but I once heard that WCU was the only D1 school located in an unincorporated "town." We could do better, but WCU is 2nd in the SoCon in attendance this year (10,500ish). Had some poor weather for 2 games that hurt the numbers some. Cullowhee is around 10,000 in population, has to be with students. Sylva is around 2,500. Jackson Co. is only around 40,000. Closest real "city" is Asheville, at 83k and 45 minutes away. Our location is a huge selling point, but it is also a barrier in many ways. Basically WCU is Cullowhee and Cullowhee is WCU. When you come through Catamount Gap, you see the town of WCU. This image should give you an understanding.
http://gohendersoncountync.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/scenicview.jpg

That is simply a gorgeous photo. Better than a beautiful woman.

[veinup]

god damn those carolina (?) pictures are gorgeous ..

[Pinnum]

I might have to schedule a Western Carolina trip next fall...

[ST_Lawson]

Beautiful.

Meanwhile, most of us MVFC folks are all like...

https://i.imgur.com/eiperzW.jpg

Corn and flat land...as far as the eye can see.

[tomq04]

Gorgeous part of the country apparently! I've never been.

[superman7515]

I don't know if it's true, but I once heard that WCU was the only D1 school located in an unincorporated "town."

There are a few others at the FCS level, not sure about D1 as a whole; Alcorn State, Campbell, Rhode Island, Stony Brook, and Towson.

On the other side, Villanova is in two counties (Montgomery County & Delaware County) and two towns (Lower Merion Township & East Radnor Township).

[Daytripper]

Gorgeous part of the country apparently! I've never been.

I was in that area when I hiked the southern half of the Appalachian Trail. Didn't go through Cullowhee, but those photos are representative of most of the western part of North Carolina.

[Cocky]

Not sure of our average attendance this year but somewhere between 15-20,000. Enrollment less than 9,000 and town somewhere around 12,000.

Dont use any of this data for scientific research as it may be wrong.

[Daytripper]

Not sure of our average attendance this year but somewhere between 15-20,000. Enrollment less than 9,000 and town somewhere around 12,000.

Dont use any of this data for scientific research as it may be wrong.


I would call that ratio a success.

[Mattymc727]

Pshhh those Carolina hills got nothing on the white mountains up here when it comes to foliage

https://www.google.com/search?q=autumn+nh&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIydHA8O_lyAIVwS6ICh12AwSs&biw=1920&bih=995#tbm=isch&q=white+mountains+autumn

Nothing like Autumn up in the White Mountains with the snowcapped peaks.

[Catsfan90]

Pshhh those Carolina hills got nothing on the white mountains up here when it comes to foliage

https://www.google.com/search?q=autumn+nh&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIydHA8O_lyAIVwS6ICh12AwSs&biw=1920&bih=995#tbm=isch&q=white+mountains+autumn

Nothing like Autumn up in the White Mountains with the snowcapped peaks.
As someone who's lived in both places, I can 100% attest to this.

[WestCoastAggie]

Beautiful.

Meanwhile, most of us MVFC folks are all like...

https://i.imgur.com/eiperzW.jpg

Corn and flat land...as far as the eye can see.

xlolx

[Catamount87]

I wish I had specific historical numbers because what's even more impressive is the fact that we consistently averaged around 8K in arguably our leanest performance years when we had a run of 1-10 years.

As for fall colors, here's a few photos of the Blue Ridge Mountains in autumn. (https://www.google.com/search?q=autumn+nh&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIydHA8O_lyAIVwS6ICh12AwSs&biw=1920&bih=995#tbm=isch&q=blue+ridge+mountains+autumn)

[tenNesseeCat]

Pshhh those Carolina hills got nothing on the white mountains up here when it comes to foliage

https://www.google.com/search?q=autumn+nh&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIydHA8O_lyAIVwS6ICh12AwSs&biw=1920&bih=995#tbm=isch&q=white+mountains+autumn

Nothing like Autumn up in the White Mountains with the snowcapped peaks.

You're right, nothing to see down here.
http://mygatlinburg.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/129867872910390216-11.jpghttp://cdn.desktopwallpapers4.me/wallpapers/photography/1680x1050/3/20601-blue-ridge-parkway-in-fall-1680x1050-photography-wallpaper.jpg

nothing to see in the spring either.
http://www.northamericanparks.com/images2/RoanHighlands4.jpghttp://www.simplyappalachian.com/sites/default/files/flickrcom.jpg

[Mocs123]

I think WCU and the Citadel both do great. Chattanooga should do better but we will have 15k drive up to Knoxville to watch UTK play but struggle to get over 10k to see a top tier FCS team.

JSU does fantastic as well. I can attest there isn't anything in Jacsonville, AL except JSU and Cooters Rib Shack. They have a great pre game atmosphere as well.

[GAD]

fify
xlolxwell maybe you should work on your band cause football just isn't a drawxlolx

[tenNesseeCat]

I think WCU and the Citadel both do great. Chattanooga should do better but we will have 15k drive up to Knoxville to watch UTK play but struggle to get over 10k to see a top tier FCS team.

JSU does fantastic as well. I can attest there isn't anything in Jacsonville, AL except JSU and Cooters Rib Shack. They have a great pre game atmosphere as well.

I corrected many here in east TN last year. "Football is over for a while" they would say. I'd remind them of highly ranked UTC in the playoffs. "Ain't they D2?" They'd say. I'd then educate them on the SEC and the ACC forming out of the SoCon.

[Grizalltheway]

Pshhh those Carolina hills got nothing on the white mountains up here when it comes to foliage

https://www.google.com/search?q=autumn+nh&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIydHA8O_lyAIVwS6ICh12AwSs&biw=1920&bih=995#tbm=isch&q=white+mountains+autumn

Nothing like Autumn up in the White Mountains with the snowcapped peaks.

Hey, our trees change color too!

http://www.glacierparkphotos.com/images/lakes/solitude.jpg

[SFA 93]

SFA has an enrollment around 13,000 in Nacogdoches, Texas a town of 33,000 in a county of 65,000.

Our stadium can sit about 15,000, but including the grassy hill bowl area around the stadium it can seat over 25,000 (Record attendance for a SFA game over 23,600 back in 1995.)

SFA averaged almost 10,000 a game in Coach Harper's last season in 2013 when the Jacks finished 3-9. Then we average 8,800 last season in Coach Conque's first season going 8-4 and making the playoff for the first time since 2010.

And we are averaging 8,800 so far this season after 3 home games.

Scenic Nac...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CR8-M2BU8AA4EY4.jpg:large

http://i.imgur.com/2ixaf.jpg

http://www.pictures-of-historic-nacogdoches.com/392runner.jpeg

http://www.visitnacogdoches.org/news/Durr%20home.jpg

https://inegaleri.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/nacogdoches-azalea-iburke8.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f4/bd/78/f4bd784e8b5053fba98165ff6a2d5a02.jpg
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5323c466e4b055350d922244/5483d692e4b03a5963c3a281/549a4fb8e4b0eeab5f971ff3/1429218080799/la+nana+creek+2.jpg?format=1500w
http://www.pictures-of-historic-nacogdoches.com/380back.jpeg
https://inegaleri.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/nacogdoches-azalea-iburke2.jpg

[Ivytalk]

Yale almost always leads the League in attendance, given the size of its facility, its best-in-league alumni base, and hosting the H-Y game every other year. Harvard is usually second. If there is an Ivy outlier, it has to be Penn. Great facility, but fickle and fair-weather fan base.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I'll do it for you. UNH has poor attendance, but it is definitely better than years past. Hopefully with the new stadium it improves!

Not really. UNH has averaged over 100% capacity most years for quite a few years now. You can only expect so may people to attend knowing they're going to have to stand at field level. UNH doesn't deserved to be labeled as having poor support. Believe me, that new grandstand wouldn't be under construction if that was the case! Yes, the figures get inflated somewhat by Homecoming, but they all bought tickets and they were scanned entering the grounds. UNH didn't do badly last December with three home playoff games. Fordham wasn't a sellout but it was a cold, rainy afternoon and Boulder Field had an inch of sleet and standing water on it. Chattanooga (8 PM kickoff) and Illinois State were both over capacity IIRC despite Boulder Field being closed creating more difficult parking. The Illinois State game was well over capacity no matter what the attendance figure was. December in NH isn't exactly ideal football weather, but it was wicked pissah tailgating before Chatty in snow squalls!! (That was for Sader87!! :D)

[ElCid]

This is the view from Waterrock Knob Overlook on the Blue Ridge Parkway a few weeks back before the Mercer game. The change was just starting. this is looking down toward Cullowhee.
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12072697_10153327403708757_8240913777157915122_n.j pg?oh=39adf640cc85d8d6a8219d9cae3f5142&oe=5684A3C2
here are some good ones from around the area.

Graveyard Fields on the parkway.
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a6/d7/25/a6d72544a90700f7e3e054451df93bfe.jpg
Richland Balsam looking toward Cullowhee in my favorite time! full green
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/794883.jpg

I love that area. I have been all through that area on the parkway and hope to live close to there in the not too distant future if I can just convince my wife.

[ElCid]

That is simply a gorgeous photo. Better than a beautiful woman.

Huh? Really? xconfusedx:D

[ElCid]

Gorgeous part of the country apparently! I've never been.

I been out to Spokane for a trip and it's not to shabby out their either in places.

[tenNesseeCat]

those carolina (?) pictures are gorgeous ..

There are a lot of beautiful areas in this country. One thing I really liked about NC, particularly the piedmont area, is that you can be in so many different types of places in a fairly short amount of time. NC is very diverse in what it has to offer. All in the same days drive, you can visit the highest point and tallest waterfall east of the mississippi, then head to a barrier island that may only be a hand full of miles from the gulf stream. You can catch a blue marlin and a brook trout in a 24 hr span. You can see alligators and elk. The bio-diversity from one end of the state to the other is ridiculous. You can observe the only area in the world where the venus flytrap grows natural, or one of the other 4 carnivorous plants that grow across the state. Anything from various species of pitcher plant http://www.pitcherplant.org/images/joseph-pines-preserve-07-12-2.jpg to sundew http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4kFfr9_OKPk/VZBfok2uNbI/AAAAAAAAEww/Qde8tNZtIwU/s640/Ice%2BMeadows%2BJune%2B2015%2B071.JPG
You can see a spruce forest above 6,000 feet or cypress trees draped with spannish moss in the swamps down east.

You can catch numerous D1 football games, and go see a b-ball game in Cameron Indoor or the Dean Dome that night. Then drive to play Pinehurst on Sunday morning and catch panthers play that evening.

I'll also add the cultural differences across this state can be large as well. Most would struggle to understand the some of the coastal dialect
https://youtu.be/jXs9cf2YWwg in a different way than they would struggle to understand some of the mountain dialect.
https://youtu.be/eXghKHHzlXQ There is basically 3 different types of BBQ here too!

[ASU33]

How much of that is skewed by the Circle City Classic and Chicago Classic and every other classic game held in an NFL stadium, attended by HBCU alums, Greek Letter Organization Alumni, and subsidized by corporate sponsorship? Just curious.

None of those games involved SWAC teams and Classic games are not factored into home attendance averages.

[bostonspider]

It even gets pretty in central VA in the fall.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ea/89/fd/ea89fdc54ce0c950c01fbb8ca8f5047b.jpg

https://media.glassdoor.com/l/23378/university-of-richmond-office.jpg

[bostonspider]

But then again, UR's campus and stadium are ALWAYS pretty, lol

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/21/3219e7d2-7bc6-11e3-8bce-0019bb30f31a/52d2f7bc8cc41.image.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/b9/cb991f5c-7bc8-11e3-813a-0019bb30f31a/52d2fc19165d9.image.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/ea/2ea66d0a-7bc6-11e3-8fde-0019bb30f31a/52d2f7b6bef90.image.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/8a/c8a13cb2-7bc8-11e3-b4f8-0019bb30f31a/52d2fc141a5cc.image.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/e4/3e4b0176-7bc6-11e3-8b4a-0019bb30f31a/52d2f7d106be5.image.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/5e/c5e2540c-7bc8-11e3-a3e5-0019bb30f31a/52d2fc0f7a947.image.jpg

[Winindy]

ISUb has a long history of anemic attendance for games. The stated Average attendance doesn't often come close to what is actually in the stands. In 2014 with a playoff team that won a game in the first round, the official game attendance figure were around 5,500 per game. Looking in the stands for these games, a lot of season ticket holders must be somewhere else on Saturdays. The stated attendance for the NDSU @ ISUb game last weekend was 6,524. There's no way that stadium was close to half full (or empty for you pessimists).

[superman7515]

None of those games involved SWAC teams and Classic games are not factored into hoe attendance averages.

Just out of curiousity, how many hoes generally attend these games? Do you bring your own or are they bussed in?

[tomq04]

Just out of curiousity, how many hoes generally attend these games? Do you bring your own or are they bussed in?

I think they only bus them in for Fargo.

[RabidRabbit]

Beautiful.

Meanwhile, most of us MVFC folks are all like...

https://i.imgur.com/eiperzW.jpg

Corn and flat land...as far as the eye can see.
Which, if you grew up with, but left to east or south, is a much missed series of vistas and ability to see forever, that you just don't have surrounded by trees.

Cullowhee area, and anything along the Blue Ridge or Sky Line drives are gorgeous in fall colors, or when dogwood, azaleas, and rhododendrons are in bloom.

[ASU33]

Just out of curiousity, how many hoes generally attend these games? Do you bring your own or are they bussed in?


xlolx

[superman7515]

I think they only bus them in for Fargo.

That's not what the Louisville basketball team told me.

[Panther88]

Well, as a conference, the SWAC does very well with attendance despite not having a great deal of on-field success. Last year, the SWAC as a whole averaged 12,781 per home game, which made it the #1 conference for attendance. This is likely in large part to:
1. Many of the teams play in fairly large stadiums...including a 62k seat stadium and 5 20k+ seat stadiums
2. Football games for many HBCU schools are really more of an event/party than elsewhere. People show up to have a good time, see their friends, enjoy the bands, and also enjoy a football game...but for the most part, the fans will show up regardless of how the team is doing.

1. Possibly.
2. Wrong as 2 left shoes. smh Keep guessing.

The SWAC has led then I-AA and then FCS w/ attendance for how many... wait, scratch that question. What single year did the SWAC relent its attendance title? lol IMHO, if you have a product that people identify w/ lol (very LOADED lol) and desire to be near or view, they will come, imho. It could be 50 degrees below zero and the horseshoe will still be packed w/ 100,000+ screaming fans for the bucks.

Prairie View A&M University could be 0-4 by the time it competes w/ an undefeated Grambling State University squad and we'll still draw 40,000+, weather permitting.

[ST_Lawson]

1. Possibly.
2. Wrong as 2 left shoes. smh Keep guessing.

The SWAC has led then I-AA and then FCS w/ attendance for how many... wait, scratch that question. What single year did the SWAC relent its attendance title? lol IMHO, if you have a product that people identify w/ lol (very LOADED lol) and desire to be near or view, they will come, imho. It could be 50 degrees below zero and the horseshoe will still be packed w/ 100,000+ screaming fans for the bucks.

Prairie View A&M University could be 0-4 by the time it competes w/ an undefeated Grambling State University squad and we'll still draw 40,000+, weather permitting.

What the hell are you talking about. That's pretty much exactly what I said..."but for the most part, the fans will show up regardless of how the team is doing."
SWAC fans support their schools and their football teams very well. They've always had great attendance. I never said otherwise.

And as for point #1....how is that "possibly"? SWAC teams have big stadiums...it's a pretty easy thing to verify.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Huh? Really? xconfusedx:D

I'm single and bitter. :D

[dgtw]

I think WCU and the Citadel both do great. Chattanooga should do better but we will have 15k drive up to Knoxville to watch UTK play but struggle to get over 10k to see a top tier FCS team.

JSU does fantastic as well. I can attest there isn't anything in Jacsonville, AL except JSU and Cooters Rib Shack. They have a great pre game atmosphere as well.

We have two major FBS programs in our state to compete with for attention, so I think we do pretty well. We also play in a league where everyone else either sucks or lives too far away to bring a huge crowd. If we were in the SoCon we'd have Chatty or Sammy coming in every year with Mercer not that far away, either. All of which would help attendance more then a handful of people driving from SEMO.

I had a good time up at your place this year, a nice atmosphere for a game. If only you could tear down the crack hotel across the street.

[AmsterBison]

Beautiful.

Meanwhile, most of us MVFC folks are all like...

https://i.imgur.com/eiperzW.jpg

Corn and flat land...as far as the eye can see.

Or

http://blogs.voanews.com/tedlandphairsamerica/files/2010/10/01-grand-forks-winter-gfpeck1.jpg

[ST_Lawson]

Or

http://blogs.voanews.com/tedlandphairsamerica/files/2010/10/01-grand-forks-winter-gfpeck1.jpg

Pretty much, yea. Nothing to block the snow?....ok...here's some snowdrifts bigger than your house.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Or

http://blogs.voanews.com/tedlandphairsamerica/files/2010/10/01-grand-forks-winter-gfpeck1.jpg

That's Fargo in about mid August isn't it? xthumbsupx

[CSU18]

http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/admin/wp-content/gallery/charleston-southern-buccaneers-buccaneer-field/buccaneer-field.jpg

Nobody in the country can compete with this beautiful work of art.

[Professor Chaos]

That's Fargo in about mid August isn't it? xthumbsupx
No, that's about this time of year. Mid-August would be like this:

http://cdn.grindtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/shannon-sweet-among-mosquitos-.jpg

[ST_Lawson]

No, that's about this time of year. Mid-August would be like this:



So, just a mild skeeter year?

[eiu1999]

About the best I can come up with for Illinois.......http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21557&stc=1http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21558&stc=1http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21559&stc=1

[GAD]

On Sept. 19, 2015 Tiger Stadium had 102,321, while A.W. Mumford held 30,194 both game were in Baton Rouge being played at the same time.
Each stadium was sold out
If people are interested in your game they will show up

[Panther88]

What the hell are you talking about. That's pretty much exactly what I said..."but for the most part, the fans will show up regardless of how the team is doing."
SWAC fans support their schools and their football teams very well. They've always had great attendance. I never said otherwise.

And as for point #1....how is that "possibly"? SWAC teams have big stadiums...it's a pretty easy thing to verify.

"What the hell are you talking about?" (w/ this superfluous rhetoric)


Football games for many HBCU schools are really more of an event/party than elsewhere. People show up to have a good time, see their friends, enjoy the bands, and also enjoy a football game...


Did you canvass 100% of all HBCU football attendees to arrive @ that nonsensical false statement? lol For self, I go for a football game. So, you can put me in that 'other' special column as "+1." smh xsmhx

As for point #1, yeh, JSU has a large football venue but that is not the norm. Other conf member stadiums are on par w/ the neighboring SLC members stadium.

If some created a product that others either identified with or wanted to see, I'm sure their attendance #s would rise or is it just a P5 and SWAC phenomenon? lol :D

[ST_Lawson]

"What the hell are you talking about?" (w/ this superfluous rhetoric)


Did you canvass 100% of all HBCU football attendees to arrive @ that nonsensical false statement? lol For self, I go for a football game. So, you can put me in that 'other' special column as "+1." smh xsmhx

As for point #1, yeh, JSU has a large football venue but that is not the norm. Other conf member stadiums are on par w/ the neighboring SLC members stadium.

If some created a product that others either identified with or wanted to see, I'm sure their attendance #s would rise or is it just a P5 and SWAC phenomenon? lol :D

I just don't understand why you're so angry at me about this. I was (or thought I was...that was my intent anyway) complimenting the SWAC schools. I would kill to have the kind of fan support that those schools have. Are you saying that I'm completely wrong about gameday atmosphere at SWAC schools? They're not a fun event that people go to and have a great time? Like I said, that's what I hope that we could eventually have someday. As it stands, we haven't had 10k fans in our stadium since probably 2010. A lot of SWAC schools get way more than that every game.

As for stadium size, I stand by my assertion that "Many of the teams play in fairly large stadiums" in reference to SWAC schools.
Average stadium capacity by conference:
SWAC (removing JSU's 62k stadium) - 18.7k seats
MVFC - 15.85k
SLC - 11.9k
BSC - 14.3k

The MVFC has 1 stadium that's (barely) over 20k seats...the SWAC has 6. On average, the SWAC has larger stadiums than the MVFC, SLC, or BSC, and that's not even including JSU's stadium.

[Panther88]

I just don't understand why you're so angry at me about this. I was (or thought I was...that was my intent anyway) complimenting the SWAC schools. I would kill to have the kind of fan support that those schools have. Are you saying that I'm completely wrong about gameday atmosphere at SWAC schools? They're not a fun event that people go to and have a great time? Like I said, that's what I hope that we could eventually have someday. As it stands, we haven't had 10k fans in our stadium since probably 2010. A lot of SWAC schools get way more than that every game.

As for stadium size, I stand by my assertion that "Many of the teams play in fairly large stadiums" in reference to SWAC schools.
Average stadium capacity by conference:
SWAC (removing JSU's 62k stadium) - 18.7k seats
MVFC - 15.85k
SLC - 11.9k
BSC - 14.3k

The MVFC has 1 stadium that's (barely) over 20k seats...the SWAC has 6. On average, the SWAC has larger stadiums than the MVFC, SLC, or BSC, and that's not even including JSU's stadium.

@ST_Lawson, where did I say I was angry? xconfusedx I don't recall using an "angry" emoticon. xconfusedx I only explained what I thought required additional clarity. I cannot speak for an "HBCU" experience but I can speak on my undergrad's gameday experience and from what I can recall of it, it does not differ from those of the neighboring SLC et al FBS texas schools. Some are more passionate about their school than others.

[melloware13]

On the other side, Villanova is in two counties (Montgomery County & Delaware County) and two towns (Lower Merion Township & East Radnor Township).

Nova's only in E Radnor/DelCo, but St Joe's straddles MontCo and Philly. For vistas near Delaware, we have White Clay Creek:
http://www.destateparks.com/images/school/wccsp.jpg

A bridge!:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Delaware_Memorial_Bridge_From_NJ_Side.jpg

And Sussex county:
http://www.sussexcountyonline.com/business/images/farmwoods.JPEG

Meanwhile this is what I live with at home now:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2663/4164072784_99310ed3f5_b.jpg

[ST_Lawson]

@ST_Lawson, where did I say I was angry? xconfusedx I don't recall using an "angry" emoticon. xconfusedx I only explained what I thought required additional clarity. I cannot speak for an "HBCU" experience but I can speak on my undergrad's gameday experience and from what I can recall of it, it does not differ from those of the neighboring SLC et al FBS texas schools. Some are more passionate about their school than others.

My apologies. It seemed to me like you were angry with me for saying that many HBCU's have great fan support. I do not have first-hand knowledge of what it's like to attend an HBCU game myself, but from everything I've heard from people that I know who have (including some who were in some of the more famous HBCU marching bands) and from the videos, photos, and descriptions that I've seen, many of the schools completely blow away what we and many other schools have ever been able to do.

Since the original point of the thread was outliers...instances of teams that do well but don't have many fans at the games, or of teams that haven't had a lot of success on the field but still draw huge enthusiastic crowds...I was attempting to suggest that some SWAC schools might fit into the latter category, being able to draw huge, enthusiastic crowds (as compared to what I'm used to) regardless of how many wins the team has.

I wish we could have the kind of fan support that many HBCU's have.

[superman7515]

Nova's only in E Radnor/DelCo, but St Joe's straddles MontCo and Philly.

The community of Villanova, not the campus grounds. Villanova goes from Rt 23 in MontCo to the other side of Radnor Valley Country Club in DelCo.

[CHIP72]

Melloware - 2 points.

1) Your photo of the Delaware Veterans Memorial Bridge actually shows two bridges. ;)

2) I like driving through the Delaware Water Gap every so often on PA 611 when I'm visiting the parents. (I grew up and my parents still live roughly 20-25 miles from Delaware Water Gap.)

[Cocky]

Is this about attendance or proving your leaves change colors? I dont have any visual proof but ours change in the fall of each year.

[Ivytalk]

Is this about attendance or proving your leaves change colors? I dont have any visual proof but ours change in the fall of each year.
Way to get the thread back on track, Cocky!

[Mattymc727]

The amount of foliage one region gets is in direct correlation with FCS attendance numbers. Come on, everyone knows that.

[RootinFerDukes]

The amount of foliage one region gets is in direct correlation with FCS attendance numbers. Come on, everyone knows that.
then St. Francis must be in a freakin' desert.

[GAD]

My apologies. It seemed to me like you were angry with me for saying that many HBCU's have great fan support. I do not have first-hand knowledge of what it's like to attend an HBCU game myself, but from everything I've heard from people that I know who have (including some who were in some of the more famous HBCU marching bands) and from the videos, photos, and descriptions that I've seen, many of the schools completely blow away what we and many other schools have ever been able to do.

Since the original point of the thread was outliers...instances of teams that do well but don't have many fans at the games, or of teams that haven't had a lot of success on the field but still draw huge enthusiastic crowds...I was attempting to suggest that some SWAC schools might fit into the latter category, being able to draw huge, enthusiastic crowds (as compared to what I'm used to) regardless of how many wins the team has.

I wish we could have the kind of fan support that many HBCU's have.
Most HBCUs with good attendance do win, many just have not had much ooc wins as of late but they do have winning records

[AmsterBison]

Most overrated attendance stat: Percent of Capacity because schools report more than 100%.

Most underrated attendance stat: Average BAC.

[KPSUL]

OK, Enough of the foilage wars. It's over-rated anyways. The real briiliant colors only last a couple weeks and then all the leaves turn dirty brown and fall off.

[Mattymc727]

OK, Enough of the foilage wars. It's over-rated anyways. The real briiliant colors only last a couple weeks and then all the leaves turn dirty brown and fall off.

Winter is coming....

[thebootfitter]

That'd be something interesting to compare...home attendance vs school size. Also attendance vs population of the town/city/metro area would also be interesting.

For example, Western has averaged 7,669 fans per home game so far this year. Total students at Western in Fall of 2015 is 9,560. As of the 2013 census, Macomb has 19,265 people (although quite a few of those are students). So, our average home attendance is 80.1% of our student headcount. I'd guess most schools would probably fall somewhere in the 80%-120% range, but that's just a guess.
If anyone cares to find or piece together a spreadsheet with avg game attendance, school enrollment, and any other relevant statistics, I have a pretty cool mapping application where I can show statistics, comparisons, and trends on a map. I already have a list with all D-I schools with team name, conference alignment, and city. PM me if you have anything to add to it and any requests.

[Panther88]

My apologies. It seemed to me like you were angry with me for saying that many HBCU's have great fan support. I do not have first-hand knowledge of what it's like to attend an HBCU game myself, but from everything I've heard from people that I know who have (including some who were in some of the more famous HBCU marching bands) and from the videos, photos, and descriptions that I've seen, many of the schools completely blow away what we and many other schools have ever been able to do.

Since the original point of the thread was outliers...instances of teams that do well but don't have many fans at the games, or of teams that haven't had a lot of success on the field but still draw huge enthusiastic crowds...I was attempting to suggest that some SWAC schools might fit into the latter category, being able to draw huge, enthusiastic crowds (as compared to what I'm used to) regardless of how many wins the team has.

I wish we could have the kind of fan support that many HBCU's have.

The gameday experience of McNeese and SHSU are something to behold, ST_Lawson. Not sure of the others in the SLC but I've made a few of those and I was overly impressed w/ their gameday experience - esp McNeese. Goodness....

[Panther88]

If anyone cares to find or piece together a spreadsheet with avg game attendance, school enrollment, and any other relevant statistics, I have a pretty cool mapping application where I can show statistics, comparisons, and trends on a map. I already have a list with all D-I schools with team name, conference alignment, and city. PM me if you have anything to add to it and any requests.

That would be a GREAT exercise, bootfit.

avg home game attendance vs school enrollment and physical location (neighboring municipalities)

I've been interested in something like that for quite awhile.

[Mocs123]

We have two major FBS programs in our state to compete with for attention, so I think we do pretty well. We also play in a league where everyone else either sucks or lives too far away to bring a huge crowd. If we were in the SoCon we'd have Chatty or Sammy coming in every year with Mercer not that far away, either. All of which would help attendance more then a handful of people driving from SEMO.

I had a good time up at your place this year, a nice atmosphere for a game. If only you could tear down the crack hotel across the street.

Yeah Finley isn't in the best part of town. It was built off campus to help revitalize the south side of town and it has been only mildly successful. The "crack hotel" has had plans to turn it into condos but those plans have never materialized. I think they would tear it down but I hear it is overbuilt to the point of it being cost prohibitive.

I very much enjoy the UTC-JSU series even if we have ended up on the wrong side of a close game too many times. I hope our ADs continue the series after the current contract expires in 2019.

I would love to see JSU in the SoCon, but I guess that ship has sailed.

No go beat up on EKU.

[ST_Lawson]

The gameday experience of McNeese and SHSU are something to behold, ST_Lawson. Not sure of the others in the SLC but I've made a few of those and I was overly impressed w/ their gameday experience - esp McNeese. Goodness....

I'll have to check that out then. Our gameday experience is pretty "lacking", although it's started to get a little bit better now that we've got a video board, but it's like pulling teeth to get any significant number of students out to games. I bet half of them don't even realize that we're a Division I school (which isn't surprising considering there's 5 Div. II schools with larger stadiums than we have).

Maybe we'll end up meeting up with McNeese at some point in the playoffs and I'll get a chance to see what they've got going on down there.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

then St. Francis must be in a freakin' desert.

Hey now! Loretto is a gorgeous area.

You try raising good attendance numbers when Happy Valley is literally the next valley over.

[CHIP72]

Hey now! Loretto is a gorgeous area.

You try raising good attendance numbers when Happy Valley is literally the next valley over.

I've never been to St. Francis for a football game (and I probably will never get there), but I did go to a St. Francis basketball game in Loretto once (in early 2011).

[ST_Lawson]

That would be a GREAT exercise, bootfit.

avg home game attendance vs school enrollment and physical location (neighboring municipalities)

I've been interested in something like that for quite awhile.

Bootfit contacted me with his spreadsheet and I added in the FCS numbers. For reference, stadium size and enrollment is based on what's listed on wikipedia (so it's possible enrollment numbers are a few years old for some schools) and attendance is based on numbers reported to the NCAA for 2013. If you believe any of the numbers for your school are incorrect, please let me know. For Liberty University, I used their on-campus only numbers, because I know that they have a TON of online students. I realize that this probably affects other schools as well, but it would take a while to dig through everyone's on-campus only enrollment numbers. If you know of other schools that have a significant portion of their students as online only, please let me know and I'll update that.
Also, haven't figured out the best way to look at "metro area" yet...I'll have to mull that over a bit.

Anyway, in terms of Enrollment vs Attendance, the top 10 are:
1. Wofford - 482.84%
2. Alcorn State - 360.82%
3. VMI - 314.21%
4. Alabama State - 282.16%
5. The Citadel - 267.75%
6. Lafayette - 254.16%
7. Presbyterian - 248.78%
8. Furman - 244.80%
9. Southern - 244.66%
10. Holy Cross - 239.55%

Bottom 10
1. Duquesne - 13.55%
2. Portland State - 16.23%
3. Sacramento State - 17.28%
4. Columbia - 23.03%
5. Monmouth (NJ) - 24.62%
6. Central Conn State - 25.94%
7. Georgetown - 28.58%
8. Stony Brook - 28.87%
9. Northern Arizona - 29.68%
10. Albany - 30.52%

Also, I looked at Stadium size vs Attendance (who regularly packs their stadium vs who's stadiums are relatively empty on game day).
Top 10:
1. Eastern Washington - 109.67%
2. New Hampshire - 109.31%
3. Charleston Southern - 108.23%
4. Rhode Island - 102.64%
5. Campbell - 98.56%
6. Mercer - 98.04%
7. North Dakota State - 97.74%
8. Coastal Carolina - 94.74%
9. Montana - 94.74%
10. Morgan State - 93.68%

Bottom 10:
1. Penn - 16.58%
2. Texas Southern - 19.59%
3. Norfolk State - 21.41%
4. Portland State - 23.42%
5. Jackson State - 23.60% (note: 60k seat stadium)
6. Drake - 23.93%
7. Yale - 24.73%
8. Cornell - 25.97%
9. Bucknell - 26.95%
10. Western Illinois - 27.65%

Another note, I took out Tennessee State from the listing of stadium size vs attendance because they play home games in two stadiums. If I used the larger LP Field/Nissan Stadium (home of the Titans, just under 70k seats) then they're #1 at the bottom. If I used the smaller Hale Stadium (on campus, holds 10k fans) then they're #1 at the top of the list. Anyway, they averaged 11,104 last year playing 3 games at LP Field and 3 at Hale Stadium.

[Pinnum]

I thought they said they could post a map of the data... I would be interested in seeing how the data looks on the map.

[Pinnum]

I find the enrollment vs attendance metric the most vital. The cost of programs (even at the FCS level) is high and since football is expected to be one that cultivates a campus environment and energizes the student body it can be hard to justify a program that doesn't engage the students (or alumni). When you don't have many stakeholders engaged, the sport just becomes a tax on the students which drives up the cost of their education.

[ST_Lawson]

I thought they said they could post a map of the data... I would be interested in seeing how the data looks on the map.

Bootfit has those tools. I just entered the data and did a bit of sorting.

Also, I found a tool to give population within a certain distance of a location. Any recommendations for how big that radius should be? I know it probably varies depending on the region you live in (Montana fans don't mind hitting the road for 4 hours each way to get to a game, whereas some east coast schools probably have trouble convincing people to come from anything over an hour away...just as an example), but it would probably work best if I had a standard radius to go on...20 miles maybe? I would think 20 miles would cover the general "metro areas" of most places...right?

[RootinFerDukes]

There's no way URI is a high capacity program. That would mean they're selling games out haha.

[Pinnum]

Bootfit has those tools. I just entered the data and did a bit of sorting.

Also, I found a tool to give population within a certain distance of a location. Any recommendations for how big that radius should be? I know it probably varies depending on the region you live in (Montana fans don't mind hitting the road for 4 hours each way to get to a game, whereas some east coast schools probably have trouble convincing people to come from anything over an hour away...just as an example), but it would probably work best if I had a standard radius to go on...20 miles maybe? I would think 20 miles would cover the general "metro areas" of most places...right?

The metric I have always used for gaging potential fanbase is the radio market. It measures smaller cities and gives an idea of the cost of buying marketing in an area. http://www.radio-media.com/markets/main.html

With that said, I think 20 miles is probably the way to go. It will be too tight a radius for some rural areas of the country while for others (particularly east coast big cities) 20 miles is probably too broad for local interest. It seems like a good compromise.

[ST_Lawson]

There's no way URI is a high capacity program. That would mean they're selling games out haha.

Well, according to the numbers I was looking at, their stadium holds 5,180 fans and they averaged 5,317 fans last year (as reported to the NCAA). Now, I don't know if that is just "tickets sold" or "butts in seats", but those are the numbers that were submitted to the NCAA.

[Franks Tanks]

Lafayette College is an attendance outlier, even in our worst year of football perhaps ever. We have a total enrollment of like 2,400 students, and have 3x that amount at most home games. We had over 9k this year against Princeton.

[Schism55]

Most overrated attendance stat: Percent of Capacity because schools report more than 100%.

Most underrated attendance stat: Average BAC.

Average THC% ;)

[ST_Lawson]

The metric I have always used for gaging potential fanbase is the radio market. It measures smaller cities and gives an idea of the cost of buying marketing in an area. http://www.radio-media.com/markets/main.html

With that said, I think 20 miles is probably the way to go. It will be too tight a radius for some rural areas of the country while for others (particularly east coast big cities) 20 miles is probably too broad for local interest. It seems like a good compromise.

The only problem with that is what if your radio market isn't listed on there (or any other listing I can find of radio markets)?

Anyway, so here's my methodology:
Used the tool here: http://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm
Entered radius manually: 20 miles
Location: searched for school name, made sure that it was centered on within borders of main campus (sometimes was hard if school has multiple campuses)
Hit "Find Population" and wrote down what it said the estimated population within a 20 mile radius of that campus is.

Now, obviously the larger the market area, the more "competition" there will likely be with other area schools, possibly pro teams in various sports, other events and things, etc....so this isn't the "be-all and end-all" of who should be coming to games, of course, but it is one factor. You also have to consider the possible correlation of the population of the area with available jobs and the ability of alumni to stay within that area long-term. So...it gives a rough idea of the % of alumni that could live within "close" proximity to their alma mater.

Anyway, here's the top (most urban) and bottom (most rural) universities in FCS.
Top:
1. Columbia - 12.4 million
2. Fordham - 11.6 million
3. Wagner - 11.3 million
4. Pennsylvania - 3.9 million
5. Georgetown - 3.7 million
6. Villanova - 3.6 million
7. Howard - 3.5 million
8. Texas Southern - 3.3 million
9. Houston Baptist - 3.2 million
10. Harvard - 2.9 million

Bottom:
1. Alcorn State - 28.0k
2. South Dakota - 28.6k
3. Southern Utah - 29.9k
4. South Dakota State - 34.4k
5. Northwestern State - 42.4k
6. Western Illinois - 43.6k
7. VMI - 52.9k
8. Montana State - 56.9k
9. Morehead State - 58.3k
10. Grambling State - 65.4k

What other comparisons do you guys want to see? Attendance vs population (but you also have to consider competition from other events in the area)? something else?

[ST_Lawson]

Lafayette College is an attendance outlier, even in our worst year of football perhaps ever. We have a total enrollment of like 2,400 students, and have 3x that amount at most home games. We had over 9k this year against Princeton.

Yup, I had your enrollment listed at 2,382 and your average attendance last year at 6,054, so your attendance is 254.16% of your enrollment.

[Schism55]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21609&stc=1

[ST_Lawson]

Yea, that's the document I used for attendance numbers. It's available here: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2014.pdf
The top 30 list is on page 2, and the attendance numbers for all FCS teams are on pages 8-9.

[Daytripper]

Average THC% ;)


https://media.giphy.com/media/WmGdUOk8A9tra/giphy.gif

[ST_Lawson]

https://media.giphy.com/media/WmGdUOk8A9tra/giphy.gif

1. Portland State
2. Northern Colorado
3. Eastern Washington
...
...

[thebootfitter]

Bootfit has those tools. I just entered the data and did a bit of sorting.

Also, I found a tool to give population within a certain distance of a location. Any recommendations for how big that radius should be? I know it probably varies depending on the region you live in (Montana fans don't mind hitting the road for 4 hours each way to get to a game, whereas some east coast schools probably have trouble convincing people to come from anything over an hour away...just as an example), but it would probably work best if I had a standard radius to go on...20 miles maybe? I would think 20 miles would cover the general "metro areas" of most places...right?
I was planning to pull population from both the city-proper as well as the metropolitan statistical area (MSA) in which the cities fall. I can grab that from some other tools I have. It would likely be based on the 2010 census data, unless the census bureau has databases to download with more recent estimates.

Here's an example of the kind of maps I can pull. I can get a little more fancy than this, but I've been meaning to play around with these tools in relation to football for awhile. This could be a fun distraction project. Day job is pretty busy right now, too, so I may not have a lot of time to keep up. Basically, the mapping software can analyze any data that we plug into it associated with each school, so if you want to see comparisons or relationships, the tool can do it.

This map is showing all concentrations of at least 3 FCS schools within a 50 mile radius. The hotter the colors, the more schools within 50 miles of that point. I can do the same thing to quickly determine from individual schools rather than from arbitrary points.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21612&stc=1

[ST_Lawson]

I was planning to pull population from both the city-proper as well as the metropolitan statistical area (MSA) in which the cities fall. I can grab that from some other tools I have. It would likely be based on the 2010 census data, unless the census bureau has databases to download with more recent estimates.

Do you know if the data you use goes down to Micropolitan Statistical Areas...urban core of at least 10,000 (but less than 50,000) population. I'd guess that maybe the bottom 20-30 schools on the 20-mile population radius list probably fall within that category (I know we do (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonough_County,_Illinois#Micropolitan_Statistica l_Area)).

[thebootfitter]

I've seen maps like this published on websites before, but by uploading the spreadsheet that I have, the data can be actively queried on any metric or computation of metrics that we upload. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a way to allow other users a front-end active interface, but it's quite easy for me to filter and add comparisons, statistics, etc. against whatever data is uploaded.

I can also overlay multiple data sets. So, for example, if I want to show FCS football programs in relation to FBS programs and/or NFL teams, I can do that. It's pretty slick, and the possibilities are endless.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21613&stc=1

[thebootfitter]

Do you know if the data you use goes down to Micropolitan Statistical Areas...urban core of at least 10,000 (but less than 50,000) population. I'd guess that maybe the bottom 20-30 schools on the 20-mile population radius list probably fall within that category (I know we do (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonough_County,_Illinois#Micropolitan_Statistica l_Area)).
If a city falls outside of a designated MSA, then I'd probably just show the city proper population. I can also pull population from the county in which the city falls. That should be relatively easy too. But if you care to take the time to gather population for each school within a 20-mile, 50-mile, or whatever other radius you want, we can add it to the spreadsheet and use it as a metric to query.

[ST_Lawson]

If a city falls outside of a designated MSA, then I'd probably just show the city proper population. I can also pull population from the county in which the city falls. That should be relatively easy too. But if you care to take the time to gather population for each school within a 20-mile, 50-mile, or whatever other radius you want, we can add it to the spreadsheet and use it as a metric to query.

I did add the 20-mile data population data already for FCS teams ("Pop_20mile" field), might see about longer range next week (busy weekend). I also still have to do the FBS-level team data. County population should work ok for schools not within a Metro SA. I know for us, our county is our Micro SA, so it'd be the same number.

[thebootfitter]

I did add the 20-mile data population data already for FCS teams ("Pop_20mile" field), might see about longer range next week (busy weekend). I also still have to do the FBS-level team data. County population should work ok for schools not within a Metro SA. I know for us, our county is our Micro SA, so it'd be the same number.
I hate to stick you with all the legwork, but if you're willing (or anyone else), adding the specific address of the school would be nice too. Or lat/long coordinates. Currently, I just have each school listed by the city in which it falls.

[ST_Lawson]

I hate to stick you with all the legwork, but if you're willing (or anyone else), adding the specific address of the school would be nice too. Or lat/long coordinates. Currently, I just have each school listed by the city in which it falls.

I can work on that too. It'll probably be next week, but I can do it.