NCAA Should Stop Sun Belt's Madness Of Taking Schools Unqualified For FBS

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/09/ncaa-should-stop-sun-belts-madness-of.html

[walliver]

I personally think that any school should be able to participate at any level as long as they do not exceed scholarship limits and fall all rules at the level they choose. It is not for the NCAA to determine who is qualified. If Liberty, NDSU or Davidson chooses to compete for a bowl bid instead of a playoff bid at a lower level, the NCAA has no legitimate reason to stop them.

I have no doubt that Liberty could sue their way into FBS. The FBS 10 (P5+G5) is an obvious cartel, and the NCAA's policies are blatantly anti-competitive. If they choose to do so, however, making up a decent schedule would be extremely difficult.

[RichH2]

It would be odd for the NCAA to now start to legislate greed.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I don't think this is nearly as problematic as Liberty not being allowed to move up because it can't get an invitation from a current FBS league.

My guess is if that rule isn't changed in the next year or two, Liberty sues the NCAA for the right to move up as an independent.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think this is nearly as problematic as Liberty not being allowed to move up because it can't get an invitation from a current FBS league.

My guess is if that rule isn't changed in the next year or two, Liberty sues the NCAA for the right to move up as an independent.

That's sort of the flip side of this. More qualified candidates sit on the sidelines waiting for a mystical invite.

[DFW HOYA]

FWIW, Ohio State has 44,000 undergraduates. You may be counting the entire OSU system.

https://www.osu.edu/visitors/aboutohiostate.php

[Sycamore62]

Where do we think liberty could be in regards to competitiveness financial and fanbase if they were able to move up. I think they could end up a juggernaut with their potential across the board.

[PantherRob82]

Yawn

[bonarae]

I think the Sun Belt is the reason that would eventually kill off the FCS (MAC is a distant second, the now-extinct-for-football Big West and WAC share third). Look at the past 20 years or so, the four conferences have had poached many FCS/I-AA playoff stars in the South (most notably the Sun Belt) and the West (the latter two conferences did this).

The current state of the FCS today is really a shell of what it used to be 20 or so years ago, even 15 years ago. Our current National Champion was D-II when the poaching all began.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I don't know what Coastal's plan is to add the new expenses.

I will say this, though…I really don't think the Sun Belt will accept just a pinky promise from new members that they can come up with the extra money needed for FBS…from what I understand, Georgia Southern was told back in 2012 that their invite was contingent on getting the fee increases approved by the Georgia BoR. FWIW, Coastal's athletic budget now is higher than Georgia Southern's was when we got our invite and is still higher than our budget today is.

Coastal has really had great leadership through the start of their football program up until today, and I think will make it happen.

Regarding whether or not Coastal "fits in" with FBS, keep in mind they are also in the same division as the likes of Eastern Michigan, Miami Ohio, Kent State, Buffalo, North Texas, FIU, and FAU, none of whom are in the lowly Sun Belt conference. Even as one of the most impecunious FBS members I think they could outplay those schools in football and probably across-the-board in sports as well.

[DFW HOYA]

Much of today's subdivision is comprised of five groups: 1) the old major college Eastern independents, 2) the Division II expats, 3) the former NAIA and College Division schools of the Midwest and South, 4) HBCU's, and finally, 5) the Ivy League, who like staying apart from the crowd.

Other than UTEP, Southern Miss and Rice (the one team that really lost in realignment musical chairs), nearly all of the current Sun Belt and Conference USA have I-AA roots, from Marshall and North Texas to Troy, Buffalo to Ark State. But they're not coming back.

[knucklehead]

Liberty's president said today the thought of suing the NCAA has not even come up. http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liberty_university/chris_lang_blog/falwell-addresses-coastal-s-sun-belt-invite/article_fd258508-50ef-11e5-a07a-a7d1710e067d.html

[IBleedYellow]

Liberty's president said today the thought of suing the NCAA has not even come up. http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liberty_university/chris_lang_blog/falwell-addresses-coastal-s-sun-belt-invite/article_fd258508-50ef-11e5-a07a-a7d1710e067d.html

In my opinion that's Liberty taking the high road, and I applaud them for it.

[taper]

I don't think this is nearly as problematic as Liberty not being allowed to move up because it can't get an invitation from a current FBS league.

My guess is if that rule isn't changed in the next year or two, Liberty sues the NCAA for the right to move up as an independent.

That might not work out for them the way they think. Being an FBS independent works for a select few institutions, and while Liberty may think they resemble Notre Dame and BYU, in terms of football marketability they're not even close. As an indy they'd have to get their own TV contract(which is where the money is), schedule 11 out of conference games, and somehow win enough to be bowl eligible(where the other money is). Qualifying for bowls has some complicated rules, in practice an indy like Liberty would need at least 7 D1 wins, with only 1 FCS counting. Even that isn't a guarantee. Temple won 8 in 2010 and stayed home. You can bet the P5 will essentially ignore a school that sues their way into the FBS, not sure how many G5 would be willing to schedule.

[DFW HOYA]

From the Lynchburg News & Advance: "Falwell said he texts regularly with Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson. He also noted that Liberty has “more than one option” in terms of a path to FBS, though he wouldn’t elaborate."

Possibility: working with JMU on a combo offer to add two to Conference USA to move to 16.

Less likely: MAC.

[clenz]

For better or worse the issue with Liberty is they are an online diploma mill that is founded, and still runs on, extremist conservative Christian values.

Believe it or not, that's not an attractive option for conferences (and it's members) to want to get into a partnership with.

I've said it before and I'll say it here again...there's a reason that BYU's only home they could find when the burned their MWC bridge was the West Coast Conference. It's why, as nationally known as their football program may be, they will always be a fall back option for the B12, MWC, etc... when it comes to expansion.

[YoUDeeMan]

Silly article. xnodx

Sounds as if someone is jealous.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'd like to see a vote that involves other conferences. There should be some sort of "peer" review process before you join the "club". Likewise with FCS and D2....

[DoWe]

Yeah.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/09/ncaa-should-stop-sun-belts-madness-of.html

You are most definitely a FCS homer, a provincial personality, and a half-empty thinker. Good luck with that!

[Dane96]

Only LFN has a plan. He shall rule...and all shall obey.

Do you really think they don't have some sort of plan, and a ton of Moglia contacts with $$$$?! Not that I am advocating the move...but man, you are insufferable at times.

How's this for a plan: http://www.thestate.com/sports/article33179568.html


CCU WILL BEGIN THE PROCESS IMMEDIATELY OF EXPANDING BROOKS STADIUM FROM 9,214 SEATS TO MORE THAN 20,000, COMPLETING THE LOWER BOWL ON THE END OF THE FIELD THAT CONNECTS TO ADKINS FIELD HOUSE AND ADDING A SECOND LEVEL ON THE SIDE CLOSEST TO S.C. HIGHWAY 544
“As soon as the official press conference is done I will have my CFO begin the paperwork to start the process [of stadium expansion],” DeCenzo said. “Obviously I need to bring to the board of trustees the estimated cost, how we’re going to ultimately pay for it. At this point I don’t know if I’ll call a special meeting of the board of trustees to address that or whether we’ll handle it at the October meeting.”

Let's be real...he already knows how he is paying for it. I work with enough CEO's to know you don't make a public statement like this unless you have the Board behind you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Only LFN has a plan. He shall rule...and all shall obey.

Do you really think they don't have some sort of plan, and a ton of Moglia contacts with $$$$?! Not that I am advocating the move...but man, you are insufferable at times.

How's this for a plan: http://www.thestate.com/sports/article33179568.html


CCU WILL BEGIN THE PROCESS IMMEDIATELY OF EXPANDING BROOKS STADIUM FROM 9,214 SEATS TO MORE THAN 20,000, COMPLETING THE LOWER BOWL ON THE END OF THE FIELD THAT CONNECTS TO ADKINS FIELD HOUSE AND ADDING A SECOND LEVEL ON THE SIDE CLOSEST TO S.C. HIGHWAY 544
“As soon as the official press conference is done I will have my CFO begin the paperwork to start the process [of stadium expansion],” DeCenzo said. “Obviously I need to bring to the board of trustees the estimated cost, how we’re going to ultimately pay for it. At this point I don’t know if I’ll call a special meeting of the board of trustees to address that or whether we’ll handle it at the October meeting.”

Let's be real...he already knows how he is paying for it. I work with enough CEO's to know you don't make a public statement like this unless you have the Board behind you.



Nowhere in that article does it say how much money it will take to fully finance this operation, nor does it say what the impact might have towards student fees or subsidies.

It's not frightening to anyone that the BOT hasn't even seen the bill yet?

[APaladindad]

[QUOTE=clenz;2244814]For better or worse the issue with Liberty is they are an online diploma mill that is founded, and still runs on, extremist conservative Christian values.
I will not comment on your opinions regarding the football section but I find your personal attack on LU's Christian values offensive. I also have visited the campus on many occasions and My niece graduated from that school with a fine degree and is doing very well in the private sector, I also have 2 employees that also have degrees from that school and they are very competent productive employees. Also my experience would tell me that alumni of a diploma mill would not be attending football games or be in a financial position to support the institution athletically or in other ways.

Say what you will about the football team but leave your uninformed opinions and name calling about extremist Christian values off this football board!

[Dane96]

Nowhere in that article does it say how much money it will take to fully finance this operation, nor does it say what the impact might have towards student fees or subsidies.

It's not frightening to anyone that the BOT hasn't even seen the bill yet?

1- Just because it is not in the article...doesn't mean they don't have a reasonable plan.
2- Unless he is nuts, he already has a straw poll backing of the BOT. Color me shocked.

But, most importantly, WHO CARES- It's not your (our) money.

[FargoBison]

I am not sure why the NCAA needs to stop anything. CCU is a DI member in good standing, with a plan to meet FBS requirements. Why can't the Belt add them and why does the NCAA need to intervene?

It isn't the NCAA's responsibility to save schools/conferences from themselves. If the NCAA wanted to bring up the most worthy additions and keep out the unworthy, they would have a completely different process for schools that want to transition into the FBS. At the end of the day CCU is joining the Sun Belt because they are the best fit for that conference, not the FBS.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Man LFN, you do some really off the wall stuff that again seems way too emotional for a topic like this. Hell, I'm just talking about the thread title. xlolx

[bluehenbillk]

Outside of Liberty I'd love to see a list of "qualified" schools there are that "want" to goto FBS.

It's a small list. Please include what league(s) they'd be moving up to....

[Sandlapper Spike]

I think JMU would like to move up. Depending on your definition of "qualified", that school would seem to fit the bill.

Other schools interested in FBS include Jacksonville State, Missouri State, and Eastern Kentucky. There are probably half a dozen other institutions that might make the move, if there was relatively unfettered access.

As for what league, that strikes me as an unnecessary requirement for being an FBS school. This is particular true when you consider there are currently 4 FBS independents (and one of them is UMass).

[Bisonator]

I personally think that any school should be able to participate at any level as long as they do not exceed scholarship limits and fall all rules at the level they choose. It is not for the NCAA to determine who is qualified. If Liberty, NDSU or Davidson chooses to compete for a bowl bid instead of a playoff bid at a lower level, the NCAA has no legitimate reason to stop them.

I have no doubt that Liberty could sue their way into FBS. The FBS 10 (P5+G5) is an obvious cartel, and the NCAA's policies are blatantly anti-competitive. If they choose to do so, however, making up a decent schedule would be extremely difficult.

I agree. I think the NCAA is going to have to remove the clause that requires an FBS conference invite. Especially when they already have independents at the FBS level. I honestly don't understand how that clause could be legal. Not saying that moving up as an independent would be a wise move but it should be the individual institutions decision not some good old boys club. If 8-10 FCS schools are willing to move up together and form another conference why should they be denied that ability? It's all about money.

[Sycamore62]

I say play at whatever level you want. I don't think you should need an invite either. And I thought universities were where you were supposed to have extremist views being taught. Its about the only place where they actually work.

[RedFlash]

I think Coastal is simply positioning itself for the next phase of college football realignment - where the P5 schools break away and form their own level of college football and the AAC, C-USA, MAC, Mountain West and Sun Belt form a separate level between that and the FCS.

[BisonBacker]

[QUOTE=clenz;2244814]For better or worse the issue with Liberty is they are an online diploma mill that is founded, and still runs on, extremist conservative Christian values.
I will not comment on your opinions regarding the football section but I find your personal attack on LU's Christian values offensive. I also have visited the campus on many occasions and My niece graduated from that school with a fine degree and is doing very well in the private sector, I also have 2 employees that also have degrees from that school and they are very competent productive employees. Also my experience would tell me that alumni of a diploma mill would not be attending football games or be in a financial position to support the institution athletically or in other ways.

Say what you will about the football team but leave your uninformed opinions and name calling about extremist Christian values off this football board!

Agreed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Outside of Liberty I'd love to see a list of "qualified" schools there are that "want" to goto FBS.

It's a small list. Please include what league(s) they'd be moving up to....

Why should they need to? That's the issue.

[BisonBacker]

I think Coastal is simply positioning itself for the next phase of college football realignment - where the P5 schools break away and form their own level of college football and the AAC, C-USA, MAC, Mountain West and Sun Belt form a separate level between that and the FCS.

I agree with this completely. My only concern is when (not if) that happens what if any roadblocks will there be for teams that are still FCS going to have to overcome? There's a reason schools like App State, Go. Southern and now Coastal are making this switch now. I just don't want to see NDSU make the same mistake they did when they stayed DII back in the 70's and got left behind. NDSU has more than made up that ground but now the FCS is feeling the same as the old DII back in the day. All the top dogs are moving on. Wish I had the crystal ball that would show just when it will happen and what if any roadblocks the NDSU's and Montana's & the rest of the top of the current FCS will have to overcome to stay relevant at that second tier.

[RedFlash]

I agree with this completely. My only concern is when (not if) that happens what if any roadblocks will there be for teams that are still FCS going to have to overcome? There's a reason schools like App State, Go. Southern and now Coastal are making this switch now. I just don't want to see NDSU make the same mistake they did when they stayed DII back in the 70's and got left behind. NDSU has more than made up that ground but now the FCS is feeling the same as the old DII back in the day. All the top dogs are moving on. Wish I had the crystal ball that would show just when it will happen and what if any roadblocks the NDSU's and Montana's & the rest of the top of the current FCS will have to overcome to stay relevant at that second tier.

I think NDSU will be fine in this situation - as they'll most likely have the ability to choose between the FCS and any new mid-level that is formed. Where I could see roadblocks are the programs typically ranked in the high/mid teens who would like to be part of this new level, but there simply won't be enough chairs when the music stops.

[2ram]

i agree that ccu is nuts. but i don't think the reason they moved was because of they were geographically desirable to the sunbelt, rather because of joe moglia. the form TD ameritrade CEO swings a heavy ax and didn't get to where he is in life without being able to sell, sell, sell.

he didn't want to be an FCS coach, he's bigger than that. so he sold the sunbelt on CCU being a good selection, despite attendance/capacity numbers saying it ain't so. moglia could probably raise the cash for the stadium himself, but he'll still need to find people to sit in it...

in addition to that opinion, i'm of the opinion that schools that barely pack in 15-20k per game are really FCS schools masquerading as FBS... but the truth is that college football is already evolving/recognizing there are finer strata within the overall landscape than just FBS, FCS and everyone else. the P5/G5 distinction is tacit acknowledgement of that, and that stratification will only continue over the next few years.

the sunbelt is glorified FCS. i suppose there's nothing wrong with that in the end. after all, even within the FCS ranks, i think we all realize there are true FCS teams, FCS contenders (the PL until scholarships were offered) then there are pretenders... and then there's the ivy league...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I say play at whatever level you want. I don't think you should need an invite either. And I thought universities were where you were supposed to have extremist views being taught. Its about the only place where they actually work.

I think there needs to be an alternate way to have schools "be" FBS rather than this by invitation only method, but any alternate way needs to really have standards so that a debt crisis doesn't happen or there is undue burden on students. What's wrong with a requirement to make your financing plan public, especially if it's a state-subsidized school? At least that way public officials would have to answer questions on how much they are jacking up student fees (if that's what they're doing), how much bond/debt financing they're going to have to do, whether their financial plan to sell 5,000 luxury boxes at games for $10,000 a pop is a realistic plan or just a fantasy.

Currently I think CCU is at much greater risk of failure than most people seem to realize. At least when App and Georgia Southern moved to the Sun Belt they had feasibility studies that said that it was possible. Also, they didn't need to make any changes to their stadiums to make them FBS compliant. These are two enormous checkmarks that they had that CCU does not.

[Missingnumber7]

I think NDSU will be fine in this situation - as they'll most likely have the ability to choose between the FCS and any new mid-level that is formed. Where I could see roadblocks are the programs typically ranked in the high/mid teens who would like to be part of this new level, but there simply won't be enough chairs when the music stops.

I think that we are still a long ways from this being shaken out. It took the BCS quite a while to figure out how screwed up it was. They will play with the playoff a few times until they think they have it perfect. The issue being that the 2nd tier needs to have a playoff as well. And have an opportunity for a national championship. It also needs to be affordable for the universities. A different scholarship number and abaility to pay FCOA obviously are goint to exist, but how long until some of the Mid to bottom of the G5 bankrupt themselves and realize that this is the issue is beyond me.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think that we are still a long ways from this being shaken out. It took the BCS quite a while to figure out how screwed up it was. They will play with the playoff a few times until they think they have it perfect. The issue being that the 2nd tier needs to have a playoff as well.

They already do.

[Missingnumber7]

I think there needs to be an alternate way to have schools "be" FBS rather than this by invitation only method, but any alternate way needs to really have standards so that a debt crisis doesn't happen or there is undue burden on students. What's wrong with a requirement to make your financing plan public, especially if it's a state-subsidized school? At least that way public officials would have to answer questions on how much they are jacking up student fees (if that's what they're doing), how much bond/debt financing they're going to have to do, whether their financial plan to sell 5,000 luxury boxes at games for $10,000 a pop is a realistic plan or just a fantasy.

Currently I think CCU is at much greater risk of failure than most people seem to realize. At least when App and Georgia Southern moved to the Sun Belt they had feasibility studies that said that it was possible. Also, they didn't need to make any changes to their stadiums to make them FBS compliant. These are two enormous checkmarks that they had that CCU does not.

While I agree that money is a huge lynchpin in this whole ordeal, I don't think a feasibility study is going to make the difference between success and failure. I am sure that UMASS had a feasibility study and didn't imagine it going this direction.

[Missingnumber7]

They already do.

P5 has a playoff system, the G5 gets relegated to bowls, the FCS once again has a playoff system. There is no chance that a G5 team EVER gets into the playoff. Thus the 2nd tier does not have a playoff system.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

While I agree that money is a huge lynchpin in this whole ordeal, I don't think a feasibility study is going to make the difference between success and failure. I am sure that UMASS had a feasibility study and didn't imagine it going this direction.

Feasibility studies were a central part of the brouhaha about UAB killing its program then reinstating it. The most key part of it being public scrutiny. UAB basically announced they were killing the sport based on the Carr associates report that was not made public until after the fact, when it was then thoroughly discredited - I and many others took one look at it and said "if you stop football, you're not going to continue to get that $2M check from Conference USA".

CCU has had zero public scrutiny of their entire plan.

[Missingnumber7]

CCU has had zero public scrutiny of their entire plan.


Other than you?

[2ram]

Other than you?

i think he means more along the lines of, since there is no plan, there is no scrutiny.

[RedFlash]

i think he means more along the lines of, since there is no plan, there is no scrutiny.

I think Missingnumber7 meant that LFN was the only person scrutinizing Coastal's decision.

[2ram]

I think Missingnumber7 meant that LFN was the only person scrutinizing Coastal's decision.

well he did say plan, and since the point of lfn's blog was that there is no plan... he should have said decision.

words! meaning!

[Missingnumber7]

i think he means more along the lines of, since there is no plan, there is no scrutiny.

I think there will be plenty of scrutiny, just give it time. Many of us saw the writing on the wall and most here would think that this was the direction they wanted to head. I think there will be plenty of backlash or at least someone complaining about where the money is going to come from after the fact as there usually is.

[jmrepak]

I know for a lot of you this will be TL;DR, and that’s fair.

LFN clearly has no knowledge of the history and inner workings of Coastal, the Administration or the funding mechanisms the school uses. Let me clarify a few points. First, the President has the full support of the Board in almost every venture he starts because of the track record of success he’s had has been nothing short of amazing. He took over a school that had been fiscally mismanaged and out of compliance with state procurement procedures by the previous Administration and did amazing things including: doubling the acreage and building footprint at the University, develop all new athletic facilities with the exception of football (new in '03) and track which is in the works, increasing the enrollment by 50% while holding steady or increasing academic acceptance standards, freezing in-state tuition for 3 years, increasing the freshman retention rate, growing the endowment by 25%, adding the first PhD program, adding a handful of new Masters programs, adding new residence halls and the list continues to go on, and on, and on. His success earned him wide support and admiration. Additionally, he made one of the most out of the box hiring decisions for a football coach anyone has ever seen and caught hell publicly and privately for it for a long time. That’s the same decision that has ended up being one of his best. EDIT: Almost forgot his most recent achievement. Getting us into the SUNBELT.

The board has already stated that they will not allow student fees to increase to pay for this change through the Chairman and we have also gotten a commitment from the Administration that doing so isn't even on the table. Further, for those that think Moglia is giving to the program he is not. He almost definitely will when he decides to leave/retire, but he isn’t today. It’s been assumed that he made a couple of phone calls to help us with a sponsorship from TD Bank (different entity than TD Ameritrade) but that money was used to improve the front entrance to our sports complex, create green initiatives across campus and to add teal turf to the field.
Most of the funding for our growth has come from other private donors and the voters of Horry County. Horry County approved a 1% sales tax increase across the board. That funding has created over $50 million in investment for the University over the last 5-8 years and has also contributed to significant investment in our public school system and local technical college. I also believe that the Administration will rightfully assume that the additional exposure and recognition this move creates for Coastal will lead to a better percentage of state funding to our University. Currently, we only receive 4.5-5% of our budget from the state while the other two big players (SCar and Clemson) are better than 10%. Our President said at one point that what matters at a University is academic quality, but the front door that people see from the road is a quality athletic program. He was right then and is still right today.

I’ll tell you this. If Coastal was a stock, I’d be buying.

The photos of the entrance are too large to post here, but they are on a thread at CoastalFans...http://www.coastalfans.com/forum/index.php?topic=58344.30

[IBleedYellow]

I know for a lot of you this will be TL;DR, and that’s fair.

LFN clearly has no knowledge of the history and inner workings of Coastal, the Administration or the funding mechanisms the school uses. Let me clarify a few points. First, the President has the full support of the Board in almost every venture he starts because of the track record of success he’s had has been nothing short of amazing. He took over a school that had been fiscally mismanaged and out of compliance with state procurement procedures by the previous Administration and did amazing things including: doubling the acreage and building footprint at the University, develop all new athletic facilities with the exception of football (new in '03) and track which is in the works, increasing the enrollment by 50% while holding steady or increasing academic acceptance standards, freezing in-state tuition for 3 years, increasing the freshman retention rate, growing the endowment by 25%, adding the first PhD program, adding a handful of new Masters programs, adding new residence halls and the list continues to go on, and on, and on. His success earned him wide support and admiration. Additionally, he made one of the most out of the box hiring decisions for a football coach anyone has ever seen and caught hell publicly and privately for it for a long time. That’s the same decision that has ended up being one of his best. EDIT: Almost forgot his most recent achievement. Getting us into the SUNBELT.

The board has already stated that they will not allow student fees to increase to pay for this change through the Chairman and we have also gotten a commitment from the Administration that doing so isn't even on the table. Further, for those that think Moglia is giving to the program he is not. He almost definitely will when he decides to leave/retire, but he isn’t today. It’s been assumed that he made a couple of phone calls to help us with a sponsorship from TD Bank (different entity than TD Ameritrade) but that money was used to improve the front entrance to our sports complex, create green initiatives across campus and to add teal turf to the field.
Most of the funding for our growth has come from other private donors and the voters of Horry County. Horry County approved a 1% sales tax increase across the board. That funding has created over $50 million in investment for the University over the last 5-8 years and has also contributed to significant investment in our public school system and local technical college. I also believe that the Administration will rightfully assume that the additional exposure and recognition this move creates for Coastal will lead to a better percentage of state funding to our University. Currently, we only receive 4.5-5% of our budget from the state while the other two big players (SCar and Clemson) are better than 10%. Our President said at one point that what matters at a University is academic quality, but the front door that people see from the road is a quality athletic program. He was right then and is still right today.

I’ll tell you this. If Coastal was a stock, I’d be buying.

The photos of the entrance are too large to post here, but they are on a thread at CoastalFans...http://www.coastalfans.com/forum/index.php?topic=58344.30

This is great, and exactly what I would have expected from all the research I've done about Coastal.


However, LFN won't read it, or will simply ignore it, since it doesn't beat to the same drum and notion that he has. All of your effort is for naught, I'm afraid.

[BisonBacker]

I know for a lot of you this will be TL;DR, and that’s fair.

LFN clearly has no knowledge of the history and inner workings of Coastal, the Administration or the funding mechanisms the school uses. Let me clarify a few points. First, the President has the full support of the Board in almost every venture he starts because of the track record of success he’s had has been nothing short of amazing. He took over a school that had been fiscally mismanaged and out of compliance with state procurement procedures by the previous Administration and did amazing things including: doubling the acreage and building footprint at the University, develop all new athletic facilities with the exception of football (new in '03) and track which is in the works, increasing the enrollment by 50% while holding steady or increasing academic acceptance standards, freezing in-state tuition for 3 years, increasing the freshman retention rate, growing the endowment by 25%, adding the first PhD program, adding a handful of new Masters programs, adding new residence halls and the list continues to go on, and on, and on. His success earned him wide support and admiration. Additionally, he made one of the most out of the box hiring decisions for a football coach anyone has ever seen and caught hell publicly and privately for it for a long time. That’s the same decision that has ended up being one of his best. EDIT: Almost forgot his most recent achievement. Getting us into the SUNBELT.

The board has already stated that they will not allow student fees to increase to pay for this change through the Chairman and we have also gotten a commitment from the Administration that doing so isn't even on the table. Further, for those that think Moglia is giving to the program he is not. He almost definitely will when he decides to leave/retire, but he isn’t today. It’s been assumed that he made a couple of phone calls to help us with a sponsorship from TD Bank (different entity than TD Ameritrade) but that money was used to improve the front entrance to our sports complex, create green initiatives across campus and to add teal turf to the field.
Most of the funding for our growth has come from other private donors and the voters of Horry County. Horry County approved a 1% sales tax increase across the board. That funding has created over $50 million in investment for the University over the last 5-8 years and has also contributed to significant investment in our public school system and local technical college. I also believe that the Administration will rightfully assume that the additional exposure and recognition this move creates for Coastal will lead to a better percentage of state funding to our University. Currently, we only receive 4.5-5% of our budget from the state while the other two big players (SCar and Clemson) are better than 10%. Our President said at one point that what matters at a University is academic quality, but the front door that people see from the road is a quality athletic program. He was right then and is still right today.

I’ll tell you this. If Coastal was a stock, I’d be buying.

The photos of the entrance are too large to post here, but they are on a thread at CoastalFans...http://www.coastalfans.com/forum/index.php?topic=58344.30

Not that the rest of your post isn't valid but this point is true for any university. I wish the asshats in Bismarck would take off their blinders and see this. Then again they probably already do but to acknowledge this they would have to support Both of the States big schools equally or at least the funding disparities would be under brighter light and bigger microscope. Given what NDSU has done with those disparities in place and still excelled beyond belief I can only imagine how much of a bigger lead NDSU would have regionally over any other school than they already do if they had equal funding. Oh well best of luck to Coastal. Sorry to see you go.

[Missingnumber7]

Not that the rest of your post isn't valid but this point is true for any university. I wish the asshats in Bismarck would take off their blinders and see this. Then again they probably already do but to acknowledge this they would have to support Both of the States big schools equally or at least the funding disparities would be under brighter light and bigger microscope. Given what NDSU has done with those disparities in place and still excelled beyond belief I can only imagine how much of a bigger lead NDSU would have regionally over any other school than they already do if they had equal funding. Oh well best of luck to Coastal. Sorry to see you go.

The biggest problem said asshats have right now is that the majority of them keep having Butthockey thrown in their faces.

[BisonBacker]

Yes and NDSU even though we have nothing to do with it suffer for it. But in all honesty that wouldn't make a difference if that subject had never been brought up or was ever resolved. Many of them graduated from un_ and would do anything to keep NDSU within arms reach of their beloved alma mater. Watching the shatshow up North after we announced the move up has been great comedy. They are no leaders that's for sure.

[344Johnson]

Not that the rest of your post isn't valid but this point is true for any university. I wish the asshats in Bismarck would take off their blinders and see this. Then again they probably already do but to acknowledge this they would have to support Both of the States big schools equally or at least the funding disparities would be under brighter light and bigger microscope. Given what NDSU has done with those disparities in place and still excelled beyond belief I can only imagine how much of a bigger lead NDSU would have regionally over any other school than they already do if they had equal funding. Oh well best of luck to Coastal. Sorry to see you go.

So you want to take the taxpayer dollars and pump it into athletics. Got it.

[BisonBacker]

So you want to take the taxpayer dollars and pump it into athletics. Got it. You clearly don't read well. Go have some milk and cookies and let the adults discuss this.

[Missingnumber7]

So you want to take the taxpayer dollars and pump it into athletics. Got it.

Reading comprehension at its finest.

[wapiti]

And the NCAA should force the Pioneer conference to Division 2 and the IVY to play in the playoffs.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

So you want to take the taxpayer dollars and pump it into athletics. Got it.


Go sit in the corner junior.

[344Johnson]

You clearly don't read well. Go have some milk and cookies and let the adults discuss this.


Reading comprehension at its finest.

You clearly think there is a witch hunt or vendetta against NDSU from the state of ND. There isn't. NDSU would do what most institutions do when you give them more money, piss it away.

[BisonBacker]

You clearly think there is a witch hunt or vendetta against NDSU from the state of ND. There isn't. NDSU would do what most institutions do when you give them more money, piss it away.

un_ seems to do that very well. As far as the facts of funding it's no debate. Per student NDSU has been consistently underfunded for decades in comparison to un_. You don't like the truth but you can't argue with facts.

[344Johnson]

un_ seems to do that very well. As far as the facts of funding it's no debate. Per student NDSU has been consistently underfunded for decades in comparison to un_. You don't like the truth but you can't argue with facts.

Instead of complaining about UND or others getting more money, why not talk to your local congressman? I went to NDSU as well. I just don't have delusions of grandeur about what NDSU would be with more money.

[walliver]

... I also believe that the Administration will rightfully assume that the additional exposure and recognition this move creates for Coastal will lead to a better percentage of state funding to our University. Currently, we only receive 4.5-5% of our budget from the state while the other two big players (SCar and Clemson) are better than 10%. Our President said at one point that what matters at a University is academic quality, but the front door that people see from the road is a quality athletic program. He was right then and is still right today.

...

Your post was rational until you reached this conclusion. The state of SC is not going to increase funding due to a move to the Sun Belt. There are four politically powerful schools receiving a lot of state money; USC, Clemson, The Citadel, and MUSC. Of those four, one is FCS and another has no athletic program. CCU's state funding will remain on par with C of C, USC-Upstate and most of the rest of the state schools, without regard to its athletic reputation or community support.

[BisonBacker]

Instead of complaining about UND or others getting more money, why not talk to your local congressman? I went to NDSU as well. I just don't have delusions of grandeur about what NDSU would be with more money.

Nice deflection on the funding disparity.

[344Johnson]

Nice deflection on the funding disparity.

There was no deflection. UND gets more. So do others. Write your congressman.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I know for a lot of you this will be TL;DR, and that’s fair.

LFN clearly has no knowledge of the history and inner workings of Coastal, the Administration or the funding mechanisms the school uses. Let me clarify a few points. First, the President has the full support of the Board in almost every venture he starts because of the track record of success he’s had has been nothing short of amazing. He took over a school that had been fiscally mismanaged and out of compliance with state procurement procedures by the previous Administration and did amazing things including: doubling the acreage and building footprint at the University, develop all new athletic facilities with the exception of football (new in '03) and track which is in the works, increasing the enrollment by 50% while holding steady or increasing academic acceptance standards, freezing in-state tuition for 3 years, increasing the freshman retention rate, growing the endowment by 25%, adding the first PhD program, adding a handful of new Masters programs, adding new residence halls and the list continues to go on, and on, and on. His success earned him wide support and admiration. Additionally, he made one of the most out of the box hiring decisions for a football coach anyone has ever seen and caught hell publicly and privately for it for a long time. That’s the same decision that has ended up being one of his best. EDIT: Almost forgot his most recent achievement. Getting us into the SUNBELT.

The board has already stated that they will not allow student fees to increase to pay for this change through the Chairman and we have also gotten a commitment from the Administration that doing so isn't even on the table. Further, for those that think Moglia is giving to the program he is not. He almost definitely will when he decides to leave/retire, but he isn’t today. It’s been assumed that he made a couple of phone calls to help us with a sponsorship from TD Bank (different entity than TD Ameritrade) but that money was used to improve the front entrance to our sports complex, create green initiatives across campus and to add teal turf to the field.
Most of the funding for our growth has come from other private donors and the voters of Horry County. Horry County approved a 1% sales tax increase across the board. That funding has created over $50 million in investment for the University over the last 5-8 years and has also contributed to significant investment in our public school system and local technical college. I also believe that the Administration will rightfully assume that the additional exposure and recognition this move creates for Coastal will lead to a better percentage of state funding to our University. Currently, we only receive 4.5-5% of our budget from the state while the other two big players (SCar and Clemson) are better than 10%. Our President said at one point that what matters at a University is academic quality, but the front door that people see from the road is a quality athletic program. He was right then and is still right today.

I’ll tell you this. If Coastal was a stock, I’d be buying.

The photos of the entrance are too large to post here, but they are on a thread at CoastalFans...http://www.coastalfans.com/forum/index.php?topic=58344.30

To summarize (and I'm being pretty generous here) your justification for CCU's lack the public "plan" for your move to FBS is a link to the coastalfans message board consisting of a bunch of pretty pictures of the new entrance to the TD sports complex.

Marketing major?

Of course, a marketing brochure is not a plan.


Most of the funding for our growth has come from other private donors and the voters of Horry County. Horry County approved a 1% sales tax increase across the board. That funding has created over $50 million in investment for the University over the last 5-8 years and has also contributed to significant investment in our public school system and local technical college. I also believe that the Administration will rightfully assume that the additional exposure and recognition this move creates for Coastal will lead to a better percentage of state funding to our University. Currently, we only receive 4.5-5% of our budget from the state while the other two big players (SCar and Clemson) are better than 10%. Our President said at one point that what matters at a University is academic quality, but the front door that people see from the road is a quality athletic program. He was right then and is still right today.

So... tax increases may be paying for some portion of this? The only thing that is known for certain is that it costs more money to play FBS football in a bigger stadium (a requirement for meeting the NCAA minimums) with FCOA. That means a need for more money. You're saying that tax revenue has been at a bare minimum a big part of their growth. I can accept that. However, are the residents OK with increasing that tax to fund the athletic department?

Of course we're all talking about this hypothetically because nobody associated with Coastal has released a plan.

- - - Updated - - -


Your post was rational until you reached this conclusion. The state of SC is not going to increase funding due to a move to the Sun Belt. There are four politically powerful schools receiving a lot of state money; USC, Clemson, The Citadel, and MUSC. Of those four, one is FCS and another has no athletic program. CCU's state funding will remain on par with C of C, USC-Upstate and most of the rest of the state schools, without regard to its athletic reputation or community support.

Hmmm. That leaves private donors.... or tax increases.

[BisonBacker]

There was no deflection. UND gets more. So do others. Write your congressman.
I went to NDSU but I reside in Minnesota the state of higher taxes so writing a ND congressman will do no good.

[Sycamore62]

It seems like people criticizing this move think it was like some encyclopedia salesman stopped at the door of the President's house and sold him a new set of books when he had no money and then also upsold him a vacuum and some knives and signed him up as a Jehovah's Witness.

I doubt that CC didn't already have aspirations or a plan to move up.

[FormerPokeCenter]

For better or worse the issue with (Insert Sunbelt Conference Member of your Choice here) is they are a diploma mill.


Fixed it for you...

[jmrepak]

That is a completely incorrect summary. The pictures were an example of what the donation from TD Bank went to and had nothing to do with the justification of moving up to FBS.

The sales tax increase was on the ballot and voted on by the taxpayers in an extremely Conservative area. The sales tax revenue was used to pay for Academic enhancements. I cannot comment as to whether or not it is approved for those funds to be used for athletic facility upgrades. Not presenting the plan publicly and not having one are two very different issues entirely. There is no doubt in mind that there is a plan together based on how well I know Dr. DeCenzo.

By the way, Finance and Accounting Undergrad with an MBA from UofRichmond.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That is a completely incorrect summary. The pictures were an example of what the donation from TD Bank went to and had nothing to do with the justification of moving up to FBS.

The sales tax increase was on the ballot and voted on by the taxpayers in an extremely Conservative area. The sales tax revenue was used to pay for Academic enhancements. I cannot comment as to whether or not it is approved for those funds to be used for athletic facility upgrades. Not presenting the plan publicly and not having one are two very different issues entirely. There is no doubt in mind that there is a plan together based on how well I know Dr. DeCenzo.

By the way, Finance and Accounting Undergrad with an MBA from UofRichmond.

One way to erase any doubt is to publish the plan.

[proasu89]

Not positive but I think I read in this thread where Sun Belt schools are diploma mills? xlolx

[FargoBison]

Not positive but I think I read in this thread where Sun Belt schools are diploma mills? xlolx

I think Liberty was the only school getting called out for being that but maybe I am wrong.

[jmrepak]

It also came to light today that the Sun Belt actually approached us 3 years ago when we announced our plans to look for a new conference and the Pres. didn't think we were ready so we politely declined. While we didn't intend to push to FBS initially, we have been working on an athletics program shift and a conference move for the 3 years since. We didn't move without preparation. We've moved with intent and strategy and made our overall athletics profile strong enough to attract an FBS invite even if we didn't state that goal publicly. It was really the only option after the SoCon and CAA told us they weren't interested.

As far as publishing the plan goes I'm sure that will come in time. There really isn't a need at this point to prove it to anyone. Besides a large part of the planning and budgeting of the shifts by other teams going FCS to FBS involved those schools having a large increase in athletics budget to support the minimum of 16 sports and add enough women's teams to meet Title IX. We're already there (with the addition of our proposed Sand Volleyball team for Title IX purposes). Our travel budget will go up as will our gameday operations budget with a larger stadium. We will also see more expenses with the FCOA payments. However, all of that and more will be covered with the dramatic increase we will get in funding through the FBS structure and the Sun Belt TV rights. My best guess is a funding increase of about $1.5 million ($500k more in TV rights and $1m from the FBS and CFP system) from conference affiliation alone. Add on top of that increased ticket revenue, increased advertising dollars, potentially more state funding (based on my first statement) and an increasingly engaged donor base and you have a very compelling business case for the move as long as the team can continue to be successful and attract a growing fan base over the next decade (which shouldn't be hard since we are the 2nd fastest growing metro area in the country - http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/article16828880.html).

[Cocky]

I think Liberty was the only school getting called out for being that but maybe I am wrong.
troy uses a similar model

[Sandlapper Spike]

, potentially more state funding (based on my first statement)

I don't think Coastal Carolina is going to get one extra dollar from the State of South Carolina just because its football team is moving from the FCS to FBS. If anything, some of the legislators will look at the ramped-up department of athletics and conclude the school needs less money from the state.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think Coastal Carolina is going to get one extra dollar from the State of South Carolina just because its football team is moving from the FCS to FBS. If anything, some of the legislators will look at the ramped-up department of athletics and conclude the school needs less money from the state.

There is some precedent about this. Recently Virginia signed into law (one I dont' agree with, FWIW) forcing schools to limit to amount a college athletic department can be funded on student fees. No such law exists in South Carolina, but it's worth mentioning that states have started doing this.

[Sandlapper Spike]

This isn't quite the same thing -- at least, I don't think it is. He isn't talking as much about athletic fees as he is general budgeting (if I'm wrong about that, he can correct me).

I can understand where Virginia is coming from on the student fees, to be honest, but there is no doubt it makes things tougher for schools not getting P5 TV money. South Carolina is probably not at that point yet where such a law would come to pass.

[DoWe]

I just hope CCU releases their plan soon so LFN can move from calling for it to disparaging it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I just hope CCU releases their plan soon so LFN can move from calling for it to disparaging it.

I can't disparage something I haven't seen. Perhaps it is a great plan.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Yeah.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/09/ncaa-should-stop-sun-belts-madness-of.html

What schools did they take who were not ready? CCU is now ready and the last two before them were as well. Liberty is the only school not invited who has a real beef. I expect Liberty, James Madison, Eastern Kentucky, and above 5 other FCS programs to be pushing FBS heavily over the next several years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What schools did they take who were not ready? CCU is now ready and the last two before them were as well. Liberty is the only school not invited who has a real beef. I expect Liberty, James Madison, Eastern Kentucky, and above 5 other FCS programs to be pushing FBS heavily over the next several years.

Georgia State for sure. Can also make a case for Louisiana-Monroe still not really being an FBS program either.

To be clear, App State and Georgia Southern had more than enough support and resources to become FBS schools. They also had feasibility reports that said so. If memory serves as well, they also made vows not to increase student fees. Not sure about that last one but I think so.

[Sycamore62]

Thanks to this thread, I have gone from not caring if CC even had a school to rooting for them to win the SBC and make a BCS bowl the first year they are eligible.

nice work assholes

[bkrownd]

The current state of the FCS today is really a shell of what it used to be 20 or so years ago, even 15 years ago. Our current National Champion was D-II when the poaching all began.

Well, if you look back about 20 years ago in 1994 the I-AA champion YSU only managed to beat D2 champion North Alabama by 3 points.

[rokamortis]

Thanks to this thread, I have gone from not caring if CC even had a school to rooting for them to win the SBC and make a BCS bowl the first year they are eligible.

nice work assholes

This thread is pretty pointless but I had to comment because I love your post. Thank you!

[Apphole]

FBS and Sun Belt discussion are quickly moved from the main AGS page, unless it's defamatory of course.

Georgia State is the only move-up who clearly couldn't cut the mustard.

[AshevilleApp2]

FBS and Sun Belt discussion are quickly moved from the main AGS page, unless it's defamatory of course.

Georgia State is the only move-up who clearly couldn't cut the mustard.

Okay, I guess we are allowed to start threads in the Other Sports page though. Good win by App yesterday, but there shouldn't be a thread about it on the FCS page. I sort of see your point though, because this is a typical LFN rant against FBS.

[Apphole]

Okay, I guess we are allowed to start threads in the Other Sports page though. Good win by App yesterday, but there shouldn't be a thread about it on the FCS page. I sort of see your point though, because this is a typical LFN rant against FBS.
I'm not surprised that LFN is still grinding his ax, but this summer I asked for insight on Bohl on the main page since App is playing Wyoming, the thread got moved, and I got admonished.

85 posts on a thread with FBS in the title and it flies just fine because it's mostly people piling on the Sun Belt.

[AshevilleApp2]

I'm not surprised that LFN is still grinding his ax, but this summer I asked for insight on Bohl on the main page since App is playing Wyoming, the thread got moved, and I got admonished.

85 posts on a thread with FBS in the title and it flies just fine because it's mostly people piling on the Sun Belt.

Good point. But you've moved on, right? :)

[clenz]

I'm not surprised that LFN is still grinding his ax, but this summer I asked for insight on Bohl on the main page since App is playing Wyoming, the thread got moved, and I got admonished.

85 posts on a thread with FBS in the title and it flies just fine because it's mostly people piling on the Sun Belt.
Neither Bohl, nor App State, have been FCS for 2 seasons now.

No reason to have that posted there.

Threads about current FCS teams potentially moving Sun Belt/FBS is relevant there.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The Patriot League had more FBS wins this weekend than the Sun Belt.

The conference's two wins came against Howard and Gardner-Webb

Ohio 48 Idaho 25
Charlotte 23 Georgia State 20
Georgia 51 UL-Monroe 14
App State State 49 Howard 0
South Alabama 33 Gardner-Webb 23
NC State 49 Troy 21
Kentucky 40 UL-Lafayette 33
Florida 61 NM State 13
West Virginia 44 Georgia Southern 0
Florida State 59 Texas State 16
USC 55 Arkansas State 6

xeyebrowx

[BisonFan02]

The Patriot League had more FBS wins this weekend than the Sun Belt.

The conference's two wins came against Howard and Gardner-Webb

Ohio 48 Idaho 25
Charlotte 23 Georgia State 20
Georgia 51 UL-Monroe 14
App State State 40 Howard 0
South Alabama 33 Gardner-Webb 23
NC State 49 Troy 21
Kentucky 40 UL-Lafayette 33
Florida 61 NM State 13
West Virginia 44 Georgia Southern 0
Florida State 59 Texas State 16
USC 55 Arkansas State 6

xeyebrowx

Sunbelt Football: Hey! You guys can play us on top of 1 FCS team for bowl eligibility!

[AshevilleApp2]

The Patriot League had more FBS wins this weekend than the Sun Belt.

The conference's two wins came against Howard and Gardner-Webb

Ohio 48 Idaho 25
Charlotte 23 Georgia State 20
Georgia 51 UL-Monroe 14
App State State 40 Howard 0
South Alabama 33 Gardner-Webb 23
NC State 49 Troy 21
Kentucky 40 UL-Lafayette 33
Florida 61 NM State 13
West Virginia 44 Georgia Southern 0
Florida State 59 Texas State 16
USC 55 Arkansas State 6

xeyebrowx

Appalachian State 49-0 over Howard. Accuracy please. xeyebrowx

And in fairness, I see only two games that might have been expected to turn out differently, and that was Kentucky/ULL, and Georgia State/UNCC.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Appalachian State 49-0 over Howard. Accuracy please. xeyebrowx

And in fairness, I see only two games that might have been expected to turn out differently, and that was Kentucky/ULL, and Georgia State/UNCC.

Good catch!

It's the complete lack of competitiveness that is disturbing. These are FBS teams and the scores look like the MEAC/SWAC vs FBS outcomes. Georgia Southern came into the season with a little momentum and got absolutely crushed in Morgantown. That game wasn't close from the start.

Georgia Southern-WMU next weekend is really the only chance for a SBC FBS win. Taking away the NM State-Georgia State conference game dumpster fire the league could very easily go two weeks without a single OOC FBS win as a FBS conference......let that sink in.....

[AshevilleApp2]

Good catch!

It's the complete lack of competitiveness that is disturbing. These are FBS teams and the scores look the MEAC/SWAC vs FBS outcomes. Georgia Southern came into the season with a little momentum and got absolutely crushed in Morgantown. That game wasn't close from the start.

Georgia Southern-WMU next is really the only chance for a SBC FBS win. Taking away the NM State-Georgia State conference game dumpster fire the league could very easily go two weeks without a FBS win as a FBS conference......let that sink in.....

I see your point, but look at the opponents the SBC teams faced in week one. Some pretty big hitters there. And do you think the SBC should go back to FCS?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I see your point, but look at the opponents the SBC teams faced in week one. Some pretty big hitters there. And do you think the SBC should go back to FCS?

But you have to be at least competitive in some of those games as FBS programs. When you're simply taking a beating for a paycheck you're operating like a broke FCS program.

I don't think the SBC should necessarily go back to FCS. Just like I don't think the PFL should go to D2. Both conferences serve the purpose of being a home to lost souls in D1 football. The ceiling for these teams is so low....

[BisonFan02]

Conference Schedules:

App St.

Host Georgia Southern, Troy, Ark St., and UL Lafayette
On the road at Georgia St., UL Monroe, Idaho, and South Alabama

NDSU:

Host Northern Iowa, USD, Western Ill, and Missouri St.
On the road at South Dakota State, Indiana St., Southern Ill, and Youngstown St.

Wanna trade?

[AshevilleApp2]

But you have to be at least be competitive in some of those games FBS programs. When you're simply taking a beating for a paycheck you're operating like a broke FCS program.

I don't think the SBC should necessarily go back to FCS. Just like I don't think the PFL should go to D2. Both conferences serve the purpose of being a home to lost souls in D1 football. The ceiling for these teams is so low....

xlolx Or maybe too high and trying to find a way up? However misbegotten? I'll be more convinced of the move after App plays Old Dominion in a couple of weeks.

[clenz]

Conference Schedules:

App St.

Host Georgia Southern, Troy, Ark St., and UL Lafayette
On the road at Georgia St., UL Monroe, Idaho, and South Alabama

NDSU:

Host Northern Iowa, USD, Western Ill, and Missouri St.
On the road at South Dakota State, Indiana St., Southern Ill, and Youngstown St.

Wanna trade?
Maybe he'd rather trade with UNI

Host - Eastern Washington, Western Illinois, South Dakota, Indiana State, Southern Illinois
Vistit - Iowa State, Cal Poly, Illinois State, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Missouri State

[AshevilleApp2]

Conference Schedules:

App St.

Host Georgia Southern, Troy, Ark St., and UL Lafayette
On the road at Georgia St., UL Monroe, Idaho, and South Alabama

NDSU:

Host Northern Iowa, USD, Western Ill, and Missouri St.
On the road at South Dakota State, Indiana St., Southern Ill, and Youngstown St.

Wanna trade?

Honestly still trying to get a feel for the new landscape, so I can't answer that accurately. Remember that pride goes before the downfall, however. Y'all are ripe for it.

[AshevilleApp2]

Maybe he'd rather trade with UNI

Host - Eastern Washington, Western Illinois, South Dakota, Indiana State, Southern Illinois
Vistit - Iowa State, Cal Poly, Illinois State, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Missouri State

Win a Championship and talk to me. Jason Hunter.

[clenz]

Win a Championship and talk to me. Jason Hunter.
I take the the standard weak ass cop out answer means you wouldn't rather play that schedule?

Honest question - who wins a national title at their respective level next...UNI or ASU?

[BisonFan02]

Honestly still trying to get a feel for the new landscape, so I can't answer that accurately. Remember that pride goes before the downfall, however. Y'all are ripe for it.

Not sure where you are going there...the MVFC is ripe for a downfall? If it is NDSU hubris, you've got the wrong guy. I'm a bit of a social pariah amongst Bison fans and actually picked against NDSU out in Missoula. xlolx

[Hammer Head]

Conference membership is about more than football. Coastal's overall athletic program stacks up with any in the SB. They're going to expand the stadium to 20K and a FBS schedule will appeal to more people in the Myrtle Beach area. Home games with App and Ga Southern will pack the place. The writer is acting like a kid who's upset because his neighbor with all the cool toys he plays with is moving from the neighborhood.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Conference membership is about more than football. Coastal's overall athletic program stacks up with any in the SB. They're going to expand the stadium to 20K and a FBS schedule will appeal to more people in the Myrtle Beach area. Home games with App and Ga Southern will pack the place. The writer is acting like a kid who's upset because his neighbor with all the cool toys he plays with is moving from the neighborhood.

We have no idea if the Myrtle Beach area has any appetite for Sun Belt or FBS football because nobody has asked them, nor have the existing crowds at CCU games given any indications that the Myrtle Beach area will.

[gotts]

We have no idea if the Myrtle Beach area has any appetite for Sun Belt or FBS football because nobody has asked them, nor have the existing crowds at CCU games given any indications that the Myrtle Beach area will.

Is LFN a for-profit business or a hobby-type blog? Asking for a friend.

[jsnow84]

Conference membership is about more than football. Coastal's overall athletic program stacks up with any in the SB. They're going to expand the stadium to 20K and a FBS schedule will appeal to more people in the Myrtle Beach area. Home games with App and Ga Southern will pack the place. The writer is acting like a kid who's upset because his neighbor with all the cool toys he plays with is moving from the neighborhood.

Delusional thinking. People in Myrtle Beach, who are mostly transient and retired people don't care about watching a SBC game any more than they care about a BSC game. They are a big fish in a little pond and their fans don't turn out now at all. They are getting ready to be a little fish in a slightly bigger pond, won't end well I am afraid.

[AshevilleApp2]

I take the the standard weak ass cop out answer means you wouldn't rather play that schedule?

Honest question - who wins a national title at their respective level next...UNI or ASU?

You win on that! Jury is still out on the schedule. I really don't know much about the SBC, but I'm learning.

[Hammer Head]

Relatives who moved to MB a year ago saying Coastal's move is the talk of the town among locals. Not many cared or even knew much about FCS. People are excited about the move up.

[Beachdude]

As a MB resident who is neither retirement age or transient (sorry to break that news to you jsnow84), I concur with Hammer Head. CCU has had to live in the shadow of Clemson and the Gamecocks their entire football existence (as well as all other FCS colleges in the state). FBS rules in SC so the Coastal move from FCS will/has renewed a football spark in the locals here. Not to mention the interest that will be generated in the entire coastal region, where the population will only have to drive around an hour to watch FBS football as opposed to 3 hours for the chance to possibly get tickets to Clemson or USC in the nosebleed seats, if lucky enough.

[KPSUL]

Relatives who moved to MB a year ago saying Coastal's move is the talk of the town among locals. Not many cared or even knew much about FCS. People are excited about the move up.

It's not like CCU will be playing competitive games with Alabama and South Carolina in two years. Local fans are not going to see playing Troy, App St. or Georgia State any more compelling than playing Liberty, Presby or Charleston Southern.

[proasu89]

That lowly Sun Belt seems to be doing ok 👍

[Professor Chaos]

I'd say the Sun Belt's success relative to G5 standards is just more proof that there isn't much of a gap between the elite in the FCS and the average G5 program.

[proasu89]

I'd say the Sun Belt's success relative to G5 standards is just more proof that there isn't much of a gap between the elite in the FCS and the average G5 program.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your post, just wanted to address the title of the thread. Very few here will admit it but I believe us, CCU, GSU,and GS proved to be more than qualified.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I'd say the Sun Belt's success relative to G5 standards is just more proof that there isn't much of a gap between the elite in the FCS and the average G5 program.

I think it's a testament to the greatness of the history of the FCS that a league largely made up of move-uppers has surpassed a pair of leagues made largely up of teams that are supposedly sleeping giants because they're in big markets and FBS lifers (I'm talking about the MAC and CUSA). It's funny now to look back on realignment discussion and see people who didn't want FCS move-ups and those that scoffed at Coastal moving up.

My dream conference now would be to get Marshall to join the Sun Belt as a full member and NDSU as a football-only member. That would be the conference of who's who in FCS history that could probably overtake the Mountain West and get in the AAC's mirror.

[FUBeAR]

I think it's a testament to the greatness of the history of the FCS that a league largely made up of move-uppers has surpassed a pair of leagues made largely up of teams that are supposedly sleeping giants because they're in big markets and FBS lifers (I'm talking about the MAC and CUSA). It's funny now to look back on realignment discussion and see people who didn't want FCS move-ups and those that scoffed at Coastal moving up.

My dream conference now would be to get Marshall to join the Sun Belt as a full member and NDSU as a football-only member. That would be the conference of some of the who's who in FCS history that could probably overtake the Mountain West and get in the AAC's mirror.
FYP

[katss07]

Texas State still sucks

[MarkCCU]

It's not like CCU will be playing competitive games with Alabama and South Carolina in two years. Local fans are not going to see playing Troy, App St. or Georgia State any more compelling than playing Liberty, Presby or Charleston Southern.
I'm 5 years late...but that's just wrong. Playing the worst team in the FBS would be more compelling than playing Presby. CSU didn't become competitive until later and even then, it was more fun to play an App State or GSU. Liberty was a fun rivalry but we've made some new ones. The move up has been a good thing for the school and its fan base.


Btw - SUPER excited to play Georgia State tomorrow and go 6-0

[DFW HOYA]

I Very few here will admit it but I believe us, CCU, GSU,and GS proved to be more than qualified.

How are we defining qualified?

[Anthony215]

How are we defining qualified?

All of the schools listed above have made Bowl Games and received national press for their progress since moving up unlike past FCS move up programs like UMASS and UCONN who are both independent and probably at risk of needing to drop their programs.

[EKU05]

How are we defining qualified?

I mean, isn't CCU in the top 25 right now? It seems like they've been more successful than virtually anyone believed they would be. I'd love to take a sour grapes position here since EKU was the runner-up for that SBC spot, but they've done well. I still believe we were the better candidate except for two things the SBC really values:

1. Baseball facilities. Ours have since been dramatically upgraded, but there's no doubt that CCU has the better program by far.

2. Location. Frankly, choosing CCU was probably as much about people like Myrtle Beach as anything else.

[BEAR]

I mean, isn't CCU in the top 25 right now? It seems like they've been more successful than virtually anyone believed they would be. I'd love to take a sour grapes position here since EKU was the runner-up for that SBC spot, but they've done well. I still believe we were the better candidate except for two things the SBC really values:

1. Baseball facilities. Ours have since been dramatically upgraded, but there's no doubt that CCU has the better program by far.

2. Location. Frankly, choosing CCU was probably as much about people like Myrtle Beach as anything else.

Hey I noticed that EKU announcers on several occasions the other night kept bringing up where the football players transferred from in our game with you. I heard Notre Dame etc...so I thought I would look up your roster and you DO have about a dozen FBS transfers!

My question is do you think EKU would get those FBS transfers if they went FBS? Not that getting that many translates to success (see SFA) but wouldn't your team now be head hunting SBC level talent instead of getting those upper FBS transfers?

Just wondering how that would likely work. Not that UCA has any plans to move anywhere UP. We tend to take Community College transfers and high school kids more often than FBS.

[DFW HOYA]

All of the schools listed above have made Bowl Games and received national press for their progress since moving up unlike past FCS move up programs like UMASS and UCONN who are both independent and probably at risk of needing to drop their programs.

UConn was invited to six bowls since it moved up, most recently in 2015.

[EKU05]

Hey I noticed that EKU announcers on several occasions the other night kept bringing up where the football players transferred from in our game with you. I heard Notre Dame etc...so I thought I would look up your roster and you DO have about a dozen FBS transfers!

My question is do you think EKU would get those FBS transfers if they went FBS? Not that getting that many translates to success (see SFA) but wouldn't your team now be head hunting SBC level talent instead of getting those upper FBS transfers?

Just wondering how that would likely work. Not that UCA has any plans to move anywhere UP. We tend to take Community College transfers and high school kids more often than FBS.

First of all, that was a heck of a game last week, and we were really fortunate to come out with a win against what I know is a pretty good Central Arkansas team. I'm kind of dreading the rematch at your place now!

I think your question is a complicated one, because it seems like the rules are about to change with the one-time transfer to anywhere without sitting out coming down the pipe. That will probably mean fewer FBS transfers for everyone.

I think we'd still get some, and we're in the first year under a new coaching staff right now so it will be interesting to see what their long-term recruiting strategy is. In fact, if you can transfer penalty free then G5 schools may be the new trendy destination in place of FCS, but it's hard to say. FCS and G5 schools alike are likely to get poached of some top talent if they can go P5 and play immediately.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UConn was invited to six bowls since it moved up, most recently in 2015.

Not to mention they made a New Years Bowl Game. Fiesta Bowl versus Oklahoma which was about as even a matchup as Monmouth going to JMU last year. But they made a major bowl game as Big East champs.

The real sham about "moving up" to FBS and "making bowl games" is that the G5 teams all end up getting matched up in bowl games against one another. It's not like you win the Sun Belt or C-USA and find yourself getting to play an SEC or Big 12 team. 6-6 teams from those leagues for the most part end up in bowl games against each other.

But App State and Georgia Southern have both done very well since moving up -- good for them and their fans. CCU making the Top 25 is a huge accomplishment. They really came out of nowhere.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think it's a testament to the greatness of the history of the FCS that a league largely made up of move-uppers has surpassed a pair of leagues made largely up of teams that are supposedly sleeping giants because they're in big markets and FBS lifers (I'm talking about the MAC and CUSA). It's funny now to look back on realignment discussion and see people who didn't want FCS move-ups and those that scoffed at Coastal moving up.

My dream conference now would be to get Marshall to join the Sun Belt as a full member and NDSU as a football-only member. That would be the conference of who's who in FCS history that could probably overtake the Mountain West and get in the AAC's mirror.

I've posted it before but I think having the following schools all together in the Sun Belt Conference would be a great league:

App State
Georgia Southern
Marshall
Western Kentucky
JMU
Middle Tennessee
Georgia State
Coastal Carolina
Troy
Arkansas State
ULL
ULM

It used to be that the Sun Belt was the bottom rung of the FBS latter, and during waves of conference expansion, some members would "graduate" to C-USA. Now the Sun Belt is not only a more cohesive conference but also stronger IMO. And only getting better. The league I just put together is for the most part an Appalachian/interior South league. Then C-USA would become more of a Gulf Coast urban coastal conference.

[jajfitz]

UConn was invited to six bowls since it moved up, most recently in 2015.

Using the "we made a bowl" argument is totally useless. Bowls used to be a reward for a very good season. Now, 80% of them are exhibition games between teams that might bring a little money with them.

[slycat]

Texas State still sucks

Yeah but it's been a lot more fun. Hosting Texas Tech, Houston, Navy and next year Baylor and Arizona St soon makes the move enjoyable.

[katss07]

Yeah but it's been a lot more fun. Hosting Texas Tech, Houston, Navy and next year Baylor and Arizona St soon makes the move enjoyable.
I'm sure... losing to Louisiana-Monroe and South Alabama seems much more enjoyable than losing to Sam and McNeese.

Jokes aside, I hope you guys kick Baylor's ass next year. Seen quite a bit of Texas State on ESPN recently, seems like at the very least TXST is getting tons of national exposure. The updated stadium looks great, hopefully SHSU can get over to San Marcos for a game sometime soon. Renew the old rivalry.

[katss07]

I've posted it before but I think having the following schools all together in the Sun Belt Conference would be a great league:

App State
Georgia Southern
Marshall
Western Kentucky
JMU
Middle Tennessee
Georgia State
Coastal Carolina
Troy
Arkansas State
ULL
ULM

It used to be that the Sun Belt was the bottom rung of the FBS latter, and during waves of conference expansion, some members would "graduate" to C-USA. Now the Sun Belt is not only a more cohesive conference but also stronger IMO. And only getting better. The league I just put together is for the most part an Appalachian/interior South league. Then C-USA would become more of a Gulf Coast urban coastal conference.
We joke about the Sun Belt, but in reality they've been better than Conference USA for quite some time now. The one thing you can say about the SBC is they weren't happy with their conference and they took steps to fix the issue. It used to be a far flung joke. Now it's a strong, regional Go5 league. That's commendable. Kicking out Idaho and NMSU was a great decision, and it made a ton of sense to bring on App State and GA Southern. Has anyone seen the updates to Kidd Brewer recently? No more track, endzone seating. It looks like a big time Go5 stadium. With the updated facility and success they're having on the field, it's not crazy to think they could find themselves in the AAC sometime down the road. It speaks to the strength of the upper-echelon FCS programs. They can move up and have success right away. I have no doubt that a school like JMU could do the same. At this point for transitional schools, the Sun Belt is significantly more desirable than the MAC or CUSA. That's a far cry from where they were 10 years ago.

Now if only they could get rid of ULM.

[Anthony215]

We joke about the Sun Belt, but in reality they've been better than Conference USA for quite some time now. The one thing you can say about the SBC is they weren't happy with their conference and they took steps to fix the issue. It used to be a far flung joke. Now it's a strong, regional Go5 league. That's commendable. Kicking out Idaho and NMSU was a great decision, and it made a ton of sense to bring on App State and GA Southern. Has anyone seen the updates to Kidd Brewer recently? No more track, endzone seating. It looks like a big time Go5 stadium. With the updated facility and success they're having on the field, it's not crazy to think they could find themselves in the AAC sometime down the road. It speaks to the strength of the upper-echelon FCS programs. They can move up and have success right away. I have no doubt that a school like JMU could do the same. At this point for transitional schools, the Sun Belt is significantly more desirable than the MAC or CUSA. That's a far cry from where they were 10 years ago.

Now if only they could get rid of ULM.

What is the issue at ULM? To me their facilities seems to look up to par why can't they recruit better talent like the Ragin Cajun of Louisiana???

[katss07]

What is the issue at ULM? To me their facilities seems to look up to par why can't they recruit better talent like the Ragin Cajun of Louisiana???
Maybe you're looking at a different Malone Stadium than I am... it might be the worst FBS stadium I've ever seen. ULM is complete ass. They've had one winning season in the past 25 years. They're basically operating on a D2 budget. If Viator can't get it done there, I don't think anyone will. They should just pull an Idaho and come home to the Southland.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Maybe you're looking at a different Malone Stadium than I am... it might be the worst FBS stadium I've ever seen. ULM is complete ass. They've had one winning season in the past 25 years. They're basically operating on a D2 budget. If Viator can't get it done there, I don't think anyone will. They should just pull an Idaho and come home to the Southland.

I knew they weren't lighting the world on fire in Monroe but I had no idea it was that bad. Maybe they SHOULD come back home to FCS in that case. Then you can sub Louisiana Tech for them in my mock Sun Belt Conference.

[NY Crusader 2010]

We joke about the Sun Belt, but in reality they've been better than Conference USA for quite some time now. The one thing you can say about the SBC is they weren't happy with their conference and they took steps to fix the issue. It used to be a far flung joke. Now it's a strong, regional Go5 league. That's commendable. Kicking out Idaho and NMSU was a great decision, and it made a ton of sense to bring on App State and GA Southern. Has anyone seen the updates to Kidd Brewer recently? No more track, endzone seating. It looks like a big time Go5 stadium. With the updated facility and success they're having on the field, it's not crazy to think they could find themselves in the AAC sometime down the road. It speaks to the strength of the upper-echelon FCS programs. They can move up and have success right away. I have no doubt that a school like JMU could do the same. At this point for transitional schools, the Sun Belt is significantly more desirable than the MAC or CUSA. That's a far cry from where they were 10 years ago.

Now if only they could get rid of ULM.

When the AAC adds a new member to replace UCONN, they will be likely looking at schools in bigger markets than Boone, NC or Statesboro, GA. More likely you see the likes of Charlotte or UAB getting the nod. Or possibly Rice because of relationship with existing members. Remember the AAC is also looking to replace it's flagship BASKETBALL school in the aforementioned UCONN. Quality of Men's Basketball will absolutely be a factor in who they bring in.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

When the AAC adds a new member to replace UCONN, they will be likely looking at schools in bigger markets than Boone, NC or Statesboro, GA. More likely you see the likes of Charlotte or UAB getting the nod. Or possibly Rice because of relationship with existing members. Remember the AAC is also looking to replace it's flagship BASKETBALL school in the aforementioned UCONN. Quality of Men's Basketball will absolutely be a factor in who they bring in.

I think the market factor has proven to be overblown. It's about compelling matchups nothing more, nothing less at this point. App State should absolutely be on the AAC's radar. Academically they're more of a regional school BUT they offer name recognition, quality facilities, a strong identity/comfortably in what/who they are and a track record of success in sports (non-revenue) outside of football.

The AAC absolutely has to step up their game when it comes to men's basketball. What figured to be the conference's bread and butter had turned into a head scratching enigma. The mess at Wichita State likely won't help. Temple has gone from bubblelicious to being ranked #149 in the preseason CBS poll. That's an embarrassment. And with Dunphy as our AD there doesn't figure to be a whole lot of energy invested to expedite a return to the Top 25. Our football program also continues to spiral into the abyss thanks to the rushed hiring of the uninspiring Rod Carey.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

No question App State and Georgia Southern help to raise the bar for SBC football. The fact those two came from FCS and immediately found success sounded the alarms around the conference. With that said, I'm still not sure what the ultimate ceiling is for most of these teams are due to coaching turnover and resource issues at several member institutions. The on the field product has surpassed Conference USA top to bottom although Marshall remains one of the top G5 programs.

I'm watching the MAC start their season right now. Without question the quality of play within the MAC has fallen off the last 3-4 years (as the league went heavy on the weeknight games) yet the league remains healthy in terms of academics, membership stability and leadership. I think the MAC schools have considerably more "pull" in their states/geographical footprint than the CUSA and SBC schools do; generally speaking. The MAC 's stability is definitely superior to that of the AAC and arguably better than the MWC. Boise State literally sued the MWC recently. That's never good....xeyebrowx

ESPN has done an excellent job showcasing the conference's resumption tonight. The weeknight games don't seem "as weird" in 2020. In a way MACtion almost feels "normal"...

[walliver]

No question App State and Georgia Southern help to raise the bar for SBC football. The fact those two came from FCS and immediately found success sounded the alarms around the conference. With that said, I'm still not sure what the ultimate ceiling is for most of these teams are due to coaching turnover and resource issues at several member institutions. The on the field product has surpassed Conference USA top to bottom although Marshall remains one of the top G5 programs.

I'm watching the MAC start their season right now. Without question the quality of play within the MAC has fallen off the last 3-4 years (as the league went heavy on the weeknight games) yet the league remains healthy in terms of academics, membership stability and leadership. I think the MAC schools have considerably more "pull" in their states/geographical footprint than the CUSA and SBC schools do; generally speaking. The MAC 's stability is definitely superior to that of the AAC and arguably better than the MWC. Boise State literally sued the MWC recently. That's never good....xeyebrowx

ESPN has done an excellent job showcasing the conference's resumption tonight. The weeknight games don't seem "as weird" in 2020. In a way MACtion almost feels "normal"...

The MAC is the only G5 conference that makes geographic sense (other than Buffalo). The Mountain West is spread out by necessity, but the AAC, CUSA and SBC are geographic disasters. Widespread conferences like the ACC make some sense because of TV money, but the TV money is peanuts at G5 level.

I don't see App State moving to the AAC any time soon. They have rarely been good as basketball and bring little to the table. ECU is struggling in the AAC and is slashing its athletics budget while trying to keep the facade of being a P6 team. I could easily see App moving to a reorganized CUSA with UNCC and ODU, much more natural rivals than far flung teams in the Central Time Zone.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The MAC is the only G5 conference that makes geographic sense (other than Buffalo). The Mountain West is spread out by necessity, but the AAC, CUSA and SBC are geographic disasters. Widespread conferences like the ACC make some sense because of TV money, but the TV money is peanuts at G5 level.

I don't see App State moving to the AAC any time soon. They have rarely been good as basketball and bring little to the table. ECU is struggling in the AAC and is slashing its athletics budget while trying to keep the facade of being a P6 team. I could easily see App moving to a reorganized CUSA with UNCC and ODU, much more natural rivals than far flung teams in the Central Time Zone.

Buffalo is probably just as close to the Ohio and Michigan schools as Northern Illinois is.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think the market factor has proven to be overblown. It's about compelling matchups nothing more, nothing less at this point. App State should absolutely be on the AAC's radar. Academically they're more of a regional school BUT they offer name recognition, quality facilities, a strong identity/comfortably in what/who they are and a track record of success in sports (non-revenue) outside of football.

The AAC absolutely has to step up their game when it comes to men's basketball. What figured to be the conference's bread and butter had turned into a head scratching enigma. The mess at Wichita State likely won't help. Temple has gone from bubblelicious to being ranked #149 in the preseason CBS poll. That's an embarrassment. And with Dunphy as our AD there doesn't figure to be a whole lot of energy invested to expedite a return to the Top 25. Our football program also continues to spiral into the abyss thanks to the rushed hiring of the uninspiring Rod Carey.

I agree with you in general, especially when it comes to mid-major level sports. But the AAC is a conference that is trying to be a "best of the rest" league outside of the P5 in basketball AND football, and at that level, TV markets and long term potential matter more than bringing in the warmest body.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The MAC is the only G5 conference that makes geographic sense (other than Buffalo). The Mountain West is spread out by necessity, but the AAC, CUSA and SBC are geographic disasters. Widespread conferences like the ACC make some sense because of TV money, but the TV money is peanuts at G5 level.

I don't see App State moving to the AAC any time soon. They have rarely been good as basketball and bring little to the table. ECU is struggling in the AAC and is slashing its athletics budget while trying to keep the facade of being a P6 team. I could easily see App moving to a reorganized CUSA with UNCC and ODU, much more natural rivals than far flung teams in the Central Time Zone.

C-USA is a geographic disaster. Sun Belt used to be when Idaho and NM State were in the league but IMO the SBC has built the right way for a low-level FBS conference. App State would be stupid to leave for C-USA. In fact, there are a couple CUSA schools I think should look to come back to the Sun Belt (WKU, MTSU).

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Buffalo is probably just as close to the Ohio and Michigan schools as Northern Illinois is.

I think Buffalo fits in quite well honestly. It's a large, comprehensive, public "Great Lakes" university which matches the profile of the MAC. UB is an easy 3.5 hour trip down I90 to Kent State and Akron. It's also an AAU school that basically serves as the flagship of the SUNY system. Although, Stony Brook is making a strong claim to that given the school's proximity to NYC.

The MAC has nationally viable schools. I spend a decent amount of time in Ohio (lived in Youngstown when I was little) and the joke is something along the lines for every 20 Ohio State grads there's 1 Miami (OH) grad supervising them.

[OhioHen]

the joke is something along the lines for every 20 Ohio State grads there's 1 Miami (OH) grad supervising them.

Best school in the state vs. THE Ohio State diploma mill.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think Buffalo fits in quite well honestly. It's a large, comprehensive, public "Great Lakes" university which matches the profile of the MAC. UB is an easy 3.5 hour trip down I90 to Kent State and Akron. It's also an AAU school that basically serves as the flagship of the SUNY system. Although, Stony Brook is making a strong claim to that given the school's proximity to NYC.

The MAC has nationally viable schools. I spend a decent amount of time in Ohio (lived in Youngstown when I was little) and the joke is something along the lines for every 20 Ohio State grads there's 1 Miami (OH) grad supervising them.

Buffalo is as much the "flagship" SUNY school as Lock Haven is the flagship PA school. Binghamton and Stony Brook 1 & 2 for sure.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Buffalo is as much the "flagship" SUNY school as Lock Haven is the flagship PA school. Binghamton and Stony Brook 1 & 2 for sure.

SUNY Buffalo is right there with Stony Brook in terms of academic offerings and AAU affiliation. Buffalo has the most research funding (R1 level) and largest endowment of any SUNY school. I definitely think it's a step ahead of Binghamton despite Binghamton having the "public Ivy" reputation.

[NY Crusader 2010]

SUNY Buffalo is right there with Stony Brook in terms of academic offerings and AAU affiliation. Buffalo has the most research funding (R1 level) and largest endowment of any SUNY school. I definitely think it's a step ahead of Binghamton despite Binghamton having the "public Ivy" reputation.

It's been 15 years since I applied to colleges but at least as of 2005 the grades and test scores needed to get into Binghamton were considerably more substantial than those needed to get into Buffalo. Stony Brook and Albany were both considered decent schools (roughly on par with like a JMU, UMASS or Delaware). Didn't know many people from NYC or Westchester who applied or attended Buffalo so maybe the school's reputation is stronger upstate or in Great Lakes Region.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It's been 15 years since I applied to colleges but at least as of 2005 the grades and test scores needed to get into Binghamton were considerably more substantial than those needed to get into Buffalo. Stony Brook and Albany were both considered decent schools (roughly on par with like a JMU, UMASS or Delaware). Didn't know many people from NYC or Westchester who applied or attended Buffalo so maybe the school's reputation is stronger upstate or in Great Lakes Region.

I grew up less than an hour from Binghamton. It's a school with very little fanfare despite its reputation as a "Public Ivy" (I considered it for grad school). For whatever reason(s) it does not generate much excitement. Granted, I think that could be said for basically all (most?) of the SUNY's. The campus is "ok" by SUNY standards (Buffalo's is horrific) but still lags way behind similar public institutions. Being in Binghamton (technically Vestel) doesn't help either imo.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Game Day heading to Conway for #14 Coastal Carolina vs Liberty. And 2020 just got weirder...

Seriously, mad props to CCU and the Sun Belt in finding true national relevancy at the FBS level. I have to think the folks in Harrisonburg, VA are taking notice?

[DFW HOYA]

I grew up less than an hour from Binghamton. It's a school with very little fanfare despite its reputation as a "Public Ivy" (I considered it for grad school). For whatever reason(s) it does not generate much excitement. Granted, I think that could be said for basically all (most?) of the SUNY's. The campus is "ok" by SUNY standards (Buffalo's is horrific) but still lags way behind similar public institutions. Being in Binghamton (technically Vestel) doesn't help either imo.

Maybe the real story is that SUNY is a poor excuse for a top-tier state university program. Where other states have invested in flagship universities as economic drivers for their state and the ability to reverse the brain drain to other states, the government in Albany relied on private schools (Columbia, NYU, Cornell) to represent the state's academic prowess. The academic collapse of CCNY in the 1970's didn't help, either.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Maybe the real story is that SUNY is a poor excuse for a top-tier state university program. Where other states have invested in flagship universities as economic drivers for their state and the ability to reverse the brain drain to other states, the government in Albany relied on private schools (Columbia, NYU, Cornell) to represent the state's academic prowess. The academic collapse of CCNY in the 1970's didn't help, either.

I've always looked at Syracuse as the unofficial school of New York. The school is geographically located while maintaining a strong influence in NYC. Academically it is "very good" without being overly selective. If nothing else, I believe the school has successfully marketed itself as "New York's School/Team".

I'm with you that the folks in the Capital District have failed the SUNY system in terms of establishing at least one truly nationally recognized flagship university. It's freakin' New York!! Instead the state has basically tossed resources of varying levels at Buffalo, Stony Brook, Albany and Binghamton. The end result has been 4 schools that live in the shadow's of Colgate, Syracuse, Columbia, Cornell, Fordham, Hamilton, Union, Marist, Renssalear etc.

[caribbeanhen]

I've always looked at Syracuse as the unofficial school of New York. The school is geographically located while maintaining a strong influence in NYC. Academically it is "very good" without being overly selective. If nothing else, I believe the school has successfully marketed itself as "New York's School/Team".

I'm with you that the folks in the Capital District have failed the SUNY system in terms of establishing at least one truly nationally recognized flagship university. It's freakin' New York!! Instead the state has basically tossed resources of varying levels at Buffalo, Stony Brook, Albany and Binghamton. The end result has been 4 schools that live in the shadow's of Colgate, Syracuse, Columbia, Cornell, Fordham, Hamilton, Union, Marist, Renssalear etc.

how could you not mention the prestigious Long Island University aka CW in your Post....

[DFW HOYA]

I've always looked at Syracuse as the unofficial school of New York. The school is geographically located while maintaining a strong influence in NYC. Academically it is "very good" without being overly selective. If nothing else, I believe the school has successfully marketed itself as "New York's School/Team".

The whole "New York's School/Team" is much more recent and is a byproduct of Syracuse basketball under Jim Boeheim. It's a little like saying that Penn State is Philadelphia's team. (BTW, Penn State is an hour closer to Philadelphia than Syracuse is to New York City.)

There is no "New York team". It was once Columbia (e.g., "Who Owns New York?" C-O-L-U-M-B-I-A!") or NYU, not anymore. It's not Notre Dame or Army. It's not Rutgers.

And it's not these guys, either.

https://www.courant.com/resizer/z32OteCXv_nF2sS--LN-HvifNCA=/415x553/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/BTMLYZ5WPNE4ZJO7O6LT5VJQNA.jpg

[unknown3]

Game Day heading to Conway for #14 Coastal Carolina vs Liberty. And 2020 just got weirder...

Seriously, mad props to CCU and the Sun Belt in finding true national relevancy at the FBS level. I have to think the folks in Harrisonburg, VA are taking notice?

Especially since it was said that they turned the Sunbelt down. Ironnyyyyyyy.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The whole "New York's School/Team" is much more recent and is a byproduct of Syracuse basketball under Jim Boeheim. It's a little like saying that Penn State is Philadelphia's team. (BTW, Penn State is an hour closer to Philadelphia than Syracuse is to New York City.)

There is no "New York team". It was once Columbia (e.g., "Who Owns New York?" C-O-L-U-M-B-I-A!") or NYU, not anymore. It's not Notre Dame or Army. It's not Rutgers.

And it's not these guys, either.

https://www.courant.com/resizer/z32OteCXv_nF2sS--LN-HvifNCA=/415x553/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/BTMLYZ5WPNE4ZJO7O6LT5VJQNA.jpg

I was thinking more along the lines that due to Syracuse's location in CNY it pulls in students from all corners of the state while having a fairly strong alumni presence in NYC despite being 4+ hours away. To me the 'Cuse is the "unofficial" school of New York State. Casual average joe sports fans rarely gravitate towards private schools but Syracuse has always had a very strong Wal-Mart sweatshirt following. I grew up 2 hours south of Syracuse and fell in love with the Carrier Dome experience as a kid and have been a fan/supporter ever since. Miami, Duke and USC are the only other secular private schools that have a fairly broad (regional/national) following these days. The Ivies use to be those schools back in the day.

Much like Philly and Chicago no one school is ever going to win over NYC. Syracuse, UConn, St. John's, Seton Hall, Rutgers and even Fordham can capture NYC's attention and garner their support for moments at a time but no one is ever going to be able to establish themselves long term this day in age. I would say that Penn State is the most popular school in Philly and that's coming from a Big 5 alum. Although, it really doesn't matter that much given how much of a pro sports town Philly has become. Most Philadelphians don't identify with the white collar Mainliners or 1% Ivy Leaguers, Temple athletics lost its personality when Chaney retired (Georgetown knows the pain), St. Joe's and La Salle have their 15 seconds every decade or so and Drexel is the forgotten school without a campus.

[Libertine]

Game Day heading to Conway for #14 Coastal Carolina vs #25 Liberty. And 2020 just got weirder...

Seriously, mad props to CCU and the Sun Belt in finding true national relevancy at the FBS level. I have to think the folks in Harrisonburg, VA are taking notice?

FIFY :)

Two ex-pats from the Big South in the FBS top 25. 2020 is indeed weird.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I've always looked at Syracuse as the unofficial school of New York. The school is geographically located while maintaining a strong influence in NYC. Academically it is "very good" without being overly selective. If nothing else, I believe the school has successfully marketed itself as "New York's School/Team".

I'm with you that the folks in the Capital District have failed the SUNY system in terms of establishing at least one truly nationally recognized flagship university. It's freakin' New York!! Instead the state has basically tossed resources of varying levels at Buffalo, Stony Brook, Albany and Binghamton. The end result has been 4 schools that live in the shadow's of Colgate, Syracuse, Columbia, Cornell, Fordham, Hamilton, Union, Marist, Renssalear etc.

SUNY system was set up in a way where each school would have it's own specialty as opposed to a flagship school that would be the across-the-board academic creme de la creme. Athletically, the SUNY schools across the board were very late coming to the D-I game. All were D-II or D-III until at least 1990 or so. We DID have a land-grant school in our state at one point, Cornell University. I believe it was 100% public when it was founded, now 33% SUNY (Aggie and Labor Relations programs) and 67% private (Arts & Sciences, Hotel School, Engineering, basically everything else). So Cornell could've been our Penn State or our UVA had it fully remained a state school.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Lehigh Owl -- to more or less echo what DFW said, Syracuse does have a lot of subway alumni in CNY and along I-90. They are effectively the de facto "pro basketball team" for Bills Country.

NYC is such a melting pot of outsiders and transplants that there really is no "NYC's team". IF I had to guess which college football team had the most organic, non-alum local support, it would be Notre Dame. NYC is very unique in that essentially every P5 school has it's own "home bar" where a couple hundred of the NYC alumni base travel to every Saturday to watch their team. From Alabama to Nebraska to Colorado to UCF, every major school has its designated spot where the alumni association negotiates pitcher and shot specials and appetizer deals with bar management in exchange for promising to fill one floor (or the party room) of the establishment every Saturday in the fall (+ major basketball games) with their teams' game on every TV with audio. Every NFL fan base has their own "home bar" as well. As of 2019, I could probably name more than half of them.

But in a nutshell, that's why NYC has never developed a "bandwagon" college football team, in addition to being a major pro sports town. If for whatever reason I moved to Fort Collins, CO, I'd probably turn into somewhat of a CSU fan -- same if for whatever reason I moved to Spokane I'd likely jump onto the WSU bandwagon. But in NYC, college grads come here from all over the country and just continue to follow their own teams because it's so easy and convenient. All you have to do is ask someone, "Hey, where's the Michigan bar??" And the answer will be "Professor Thom's on 13th Street".

On a side-note, the non-partisanship of sports fans in NYC can at times get annoying. It's not rare where you'll walk into a sports bar with like 20 monitors and the local team might not even be on, let alone being the game that's on the audio. Thankfully, in my home borough of the Bronx this isn't as much of a problem, but in tourist/transplant-infested Manhattan, it is. I remember one time I walked into a bar in lower Manhattan in October and they refused to put the sound on for a Yankees ALCS Game because there was a TNF Steelers-Titans game on and a handful of patrons were really into the game because of "fantasy implications".

[NY Crusader 2010]

Game Day heading to Conway for #14 Coastal Carolina vs Liberty. And 2020 just got weirder...

Seriously, mad props to CCU and the Sun Belt in finding true national relevancy at the FBS level. I have to think the folks in Harrisonburg, VA are taking notice?

Great for the 2 programs. Too bad that unless one of them finishes as the #1 G5, they'll still wind up in a bowl game against the MAC.

[unknown3]

Or CUSA, or the AAC with a nice payout. They're getting more press likely just from being ranked than they had all of the time they were in the Big South. Sunbelt or not, that's where the W comes.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Or CUSA, or the AAC with a nice payout. They're getting more press likely just from being ranked than they had all of the time they were in the Big South. Sunbelt or not, that's where the W comes.

For 99% of G5 the regular season is where you make your mark nationally. The bowl system is extremely flawed when it comes to giving the top 5 G5 squads bowl games against "peer (based on rankings) P5 teams. I'd love to see Coastal get a matched up with Georgia or Miami in a New Year's 6 game or in one of the other traditional bowls.

- - - Updated - - -


Great for the 2 programs. Too bad that unless one of them finishes as the #1 G5, they'll still wind up in a bowl game against the MAC.

Odds are Coastal Carolina will get screwed xsmhx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh Owl -- to more or less echo what DFW said, Syracuse does have a lot of subway alumni in CNY and along I-90. They are effectively the de facto "pro basketball team" for Bills Country.

NYC is such a melting pot of outsiders and transplants that there really is no "NYC's team". IF I had to guess which college football team had the most organic, non-alum local support, it would be Notre Dame. NYC is very unique in that essentially every P5 school has it's own "home bar" where a couple hundred of the NYC alumni base travel to every Saturday to watch their team. From Alabama to Nebraska to Colorado to UCF, every major school has its designated spot where the alumni association negotiates pitcher and shot specials and appetizer deals with bar management in exchange for promising to fill one floor (or the party room) of the establishment every Saturday in the fall (+ major basketball games) with their teams' game on every TV with audio. Every NFL fan base has their own "home bar" as well. As of 2019, I could probably name more than half of them.

But in a nutshell, that's why NYC has never developed a "bandwagon" college football team, in addition to being a major pro sports town. If for whatever reason I moved to Fort Collins, CO, I'd probably turn into somewhat of a CSU fan -- same if for whatever reason I moved to Spokane I'd likely jump onto the WSU bandwagon. But in NYC, college grads come here from all over the country and just continue to follow their own teams because it's so easy and convenient. All you have to do is ask someone, "Hey, where's the Michigan bar??" And the answer will be "Professor Thom's on 13th Street".

On a side-note, the non-partisanship of sports fans in NYC can at times get annoying. It's not rare where you'll walk into a sports bar with like 20 monitors and the local team might not even be on, let alone being the game that's on the audio. Thankfully, in my home borough of the Bronx this isn't as much of a problem, but in tourist/transplant-infested Manhattan, it is. I remember one time I walked into a bar in lower Manhattan in October and they refused to put the sound on for a Yankees ALCS Game because there was a TNF Steelers-Titans game on and a handful of patrons were really into the game because of "fantasy implications".

I went to a WVU bar in Manhattan with my friend and his Mountaineer fiance' a few years ago before a ND-Cuse night game at the Meadowlands. NYC is such a unique place given its diversity that college sports will always be spread thin.

Philly is the same way just on a smaller level. The unique thing about the major northeast metro areas is the influence of small, private colleges/universities. There's tremendous undergrad diversity; especially at the mid to upper mgt levels. Things become more homogenous when it comes to Masters and Phd's because a lot the alumni from those small, undergrad centric LA schools funneled into either Penn, NYU ,Stanford, U of Chicago, Harvard, Columbia, Georgetown, George Washington etc. or they ended up at Penn State, Boston U., Lehigh, Fordham, Temple, Delaware, Drexel, Uconn, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, Stony Brook, Maryland etc.

Once you get west of Chicago the influence of state U's becomes much more prevalent. I honestly haven't spent much time down south but given how many yankees have migrated to Charlotte and Atlanta I have to think the elite private school influence exists. Especially when you factor in Duke, Wake Forest, Davidson, Furman, Washington & Lee, Wofford, Spelman, University of the South etc.

[DFW HOYA]

Once you get west of Chicago the influence of state U's becomes much more prevalent. I honestly haven't spent much time down south but given how many yankees have migrated to Charlotte and Atlanta I have to think the elite private school influence exists. Especially when you factor in Duke, Wake Forest, Davidson, Furman, Washington & Lee, Wofford, Spelman, University of the South etc.

I would argue the opposite. The flagship southern schools are stronger today than they have ever been. Charlotte is a UNC city through and through; statewide, Duke is no better than fourth among the schools in impact precisely because most of its alumni have left the state. The UGA degree is more powerful in Atlanta than anyone at Emory or even Georgia Tech. Once you get out of midtown New Orleans, Tulane's influence disappears in a state of purple and gold.

If you want to discuss a city where a private school runs the city's business, go to Los Angeles. UCLA might have Westwood but the influencers are USC grads.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I would argue the opposite. The flagship southern schools are stronger today than they have ever been. Charlotte is a UNC city through and through; statewide, Duke is no better than fourth among the schools in impact precisely because most of its alumni have left the state. The UGA degree is more powerful in Atlanta than anyone at Emory or even Georgia Tech. Once you get out of midtown New Orleans, Tulane's influence disappears in a state of purple and gold.

Like I said, I haven't spent much time down there. I was just guessing based on the transient population in those two cities combined with nationally prominent private schools (i forgot Vanderbilt). With that said, State U pride is more entrenched in the south than anywhere in the country imo.

ESPN.com has a great article on the demise of the SWC. Today marks the 25th anniversary of the conference's final football game. In many ways the story covers a lot of what we're talking about; just on a smaller level. That's what got my mind wondering....

[NY Crusader 2010]

For 99% of G5 the regular season is where you make your mark nationally. The bowl system is extremely flawed when it comes to giving the top 5 G5 squads bowl games against "peer (based on rankings) P5 teams. I'd love to see Coastal get a matched up with Georgia or Miami in a New Year's 6 game or in one of the other traditional bowls.

- - - Updated - - -



Odds are Coastal Carolina will get screwed xsmhx

The system isn't "flawed". It's RIGGED!!!!!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Sounds like Liberty might not able to play due to Covid issues? BYU to fill in?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30438565/sources-covid-19-issues-jeopardize-liberty-coastal-carolina-game-byu-option-fill-in

[Libertine]

Sounds like Liberty might not able to play due to Covid issues? BYU to fill in?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30438565/sources-covid-19-issues-jeopardize-liberty-coastal-carolina-game-byu-option-fill-in

Yeah, it's officially official. 2020 continues to top itself. xsalutex

https://twitter.com/LibertyFootball/status/1334507330684284929

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

First, let me say the Coastal Carolina-BYU game was absolutely awesome! Easily one of the best games of the year. With that said, it honesty felt like a FCS playoff game given the size of the stadium, crowd, time of year, "do or die" stakes, last minute matchup etc. And I don't think that's a bad thing or demeaning...

[tigonian02]

Great game Coastal. The sunbelt has taken over (at this moment) the top G5 conference spot.

http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf.html

[Bisonoline]

Great game.

[Mocs123]

Jamey Chadwell is making himself a lot of money this year, as he'll absolutely get snatched up by a P5 school. I thought he did a great job at Charleston Southern as well and was quite displeased when our then AD Blackburn picked Tom Arth over Chadwell for the Chattanooga job in 2017.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Jamey Chadwell is making himself a lot of money this year, as he'll absolutely get snatched up by a P5 school. I thought he did a great job at Charleston Southern as well and was quite displeased when our then AD Blackburn picked Tom Arth over Chadwell for the Chattanooga job in 2017.

There's a job open up the road in Columbia. Have to think he'd be a top, top candidate. Hopefully South Carolina changes their top job requirement "Must have been the previous had coach at Florida".

[NY Crusader 2010]

Great game Coastal. The sunbelt has taken over (at this moment) the top G5 conference spot.

http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf.html

Good for the Sun Belt. Solid, geographically-logical conference made up of like-minded schools when it comes to the relevance of football. 12 years ago, this league was a laughingstock and would be behind the MVC and CAA in conference rankings.

I've said it a couple times before => A few of the schools that "graduated" from the bottom-tier Sun Belt to C-USA over the years should think about going back. Talking to you MTSU and WKU. Marshall would be a good fit too.

[Sir William]

There's a job open up the road in Columbia. Have to think he'd be a top, top candidate. Hopefully South Carolina changes their top job requirement "Must have been the previous had coach at Florida".

Gamecocks hired Shane Beamer yesterday.

[tigonian02]

Gamecocks hired Shane Beamer yesterday.
Yeah, gamecocks did what gamecocks do. This is another example of the coaching fraternity clearly failing (or I guess succeeding if you’re Shane Beamer).

[tigonian02]

Good for the Sun Belt. Solid, geographically-logical conference made up of like-minded schools when it comes to the relevance of football. 12 years ago, this league was a laughingstock and would be behind the MVC and CAA in conference rankings.

I've said it a couple times before => A few of the schools that "graduated" from the bottom-tier Sun Belt to C-USA over the years should think about going back. Talking to you MTSU and WKU. Marshall would be a good fit too.
The issue now with those schools is that it’s now on the Sunbelts terms. At this point only Texas State would have reason to leave the Sunbelt for CUSA. The Sunbelt no longer wants MTSU, WKU, or either of the F_U twins. Marshall and USM would probably get in with little resistance as a pair. UAB, and possibly LTech would be alternatives. A big issue is money. In terms of getting paid, 10 is the perfect number of football schools. Moving up to 12 dilutes the pot and so we’d need the right teams if we ever expand.

[DFW HOYA]

In the end it's not about conference rankings but TV. The Sun Belt TV package is negligible: $100K per school per year. Conference USA isn't exactly the SEC, but it's per school payout is twice that of the Belt.

[NY Crusader 2010]

In the end it's not about conference rankings but TV. The Sun Belt TV package is negligible: $100K per school per year. Conference USA isn't exactly the SEC, but it's per school payout is twice that of the Belt.

There you go. The reason WKU isn't trying to bash the door down to get back in. Because the general public hasn't yet caught on to how just quite how "blah" of a football conference CUSA has become since Louisville, Cincinnati, ECU, South Florida and TCU left 15 years ago, their TV contract remains much more valuable than that of a league that plays considerably better football.

[tigonian02]

In the end it's not about conference rankings but TV. The Sun Belt TV package is negligible: $100K per school per year. Conference USA isn't exactly the SEC, but it's per school payout is twice that of the Belt.

That $100k per year per school is old. The new deal is is between $350-$500k per school. Still pennies to the AAC, but very similar to CUSA. With the CFP distributions, and the G5 ranking money, the Sunbelt actually makes more money than CUSA, with a debatably better tv deal.

[Mocs123]

My guess is the TV contracts with conferences will go down next time they are renewed. ESPN overpaid and they really felt the effects of it this year.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

In the end it's not about conference rankings but TV. The Sun Belt TV package is negligible: $100K per school per year. Conference USA isn't exactly the SEC, but it's per school payout is twice that of the Belt.


It's closer to Half a million per school now, and CUSA somewhat less.

[DFW HOYA]

It's closer to Half a million per school now, and CUSA somewhat less.

I found some more articles which confirm this--thanks for the update.

[Nor Eastern]

The real boon for the Sun Belt media contract is not the money, it's the total backing of ESPN. MWC moved to Fox and ESPN has been pushing the Sun Belt games this year since they've had openings. The SBC has had its most aired season ever. CUSA has been regulated to Stadium, ESPN+, and a handful of other games scattered around. Sun Belt has been on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, many many times. Not only that, but with ESPN owning the SBC media rights it makes sense for their on air talent to push that league more than the MWC and CUSA teams.

[tigonian02]

The real boon for the Sun Belt media contract is not the money, it's the total backing of ESPN. MWC moved to Fox and ESPN has been pushing the Sun Belt games this year since they've had openings. The SBC has had its most aired season ever. CUSA has been regulated to Stadium, ESPN+, and a handful of other games scattered around. Sun Belt has been on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, many many times. Not only that, but with ESPN owning the SBC media rights it makes sense for their on air talent to push that league more than the MWC and CUSA teams.
In terms of 2020, I totally agree with this. The money added is nice, but the exposure is invaluable. The sunbelt won’t get this same exposure next year, but it will still be well up from 2018 (2019 also saw an increase in exposure).

[Nor Eastern]

In terms of 2020, I totally agree with this. The money added is nice, but the exposure is invaluable. The sunbelt won’t get this same exposure next year, but it will still be well up from 2018 (2019 also saw an increase in exposure).


With the MWC moving all content to CBSSN/FS1 it leaves a lot of holes to fill. Add the fact that ACCN took away a chunk of ACC's tier 2 games too. ESPN has a lot more inventory to fill and the Sun Belt is going to benefit from that.


There's a thread in the Sun Belt board about TV raitings. CCU vs BYU was the highest rated game since 2015 on ESPNU and 5th highest for that network ever. A Friday night conference game between App and Louisiana brought in over a 1 million viewers. Which is a lot more than games around this point in the season last year involving ACC and MWC teams.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-912352.html

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

With the MWC moving all content to CBSSN/FS1 it leaves a lot of holes to fill. Add the fact that ACCN took away a chunk of ACC's tier 2 games too. ESPN has a lot more inventory to fill and the Sun Belt is going to benefit from that.


There's a thread in the Sun Belt board about TV raitings. CCU vs BYU was the highest rated game since 2015 on ESPNU and 5th highest for that network ever. A Friday night conference game between App and Louisiana brought in over a 1 million viewers. Which is a lot more than games around this point in the season last year involving ACC and MWC teams.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-912352.html

Marty Smith just said an analytics team at CCU estimated the school "earned" 40 million dollars on December 5th in media exposure and name recognition.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The real boon for the Sun Belt media contract is not the money, it's the total backing of ESPN. MWC moved to Fox and ESPN has been pushing the Sun Belt games this year since they've had openings. The SBC has had its most aired season ever. CUSA has been regulated to Stadium, ESPN+, and a handful of other games scattered around. Sun Belt has been on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, many many times. Not only that, but with ESPN owning the SBC media rights it makes sense for their on air talent to push that league more than the MWC and CUSA teams.

ESPN has really helped the MAC's and now the SBC's, aka Fun Belt, overall exposure and recognition. The MAC always had a unique identity given its ties to the Big 10. The conference's overall success in the late 90's to up until the 2-3 years along with prominent NFL players always kept it relevant. I'm of the belief that in some ways "selling out" to ESPN and accepting weeknight games did significantly erode the game day experience for fans and alums, hurt recruiting a bit which led to a diminished on-field product. These are, for the most part, schools located within shouting distances of large Midwest metro areas so not only are they accessible, they have influence.

I'm hoping a disconnect doesn't happen between supporters and the football program within the SBC due to the weeknight games. Not to mention there's going to be a %, even it's fairly small, that won't be attending games even when things do return to normal for various reasons; economic, still concerned about health, moved onto something else etc. Georgia Southern and App State (like Toledo, WMU and NIU) have worthy atmospheres that I'd hate to see compromised. Maintaining the fan's, alum's and local community's intimate connection to the program and school is crucial.

My stance has always been if you can play, have a respectable culture, decent academics and invest in football in a "reasonable capacity" then you're a FBS program. The SBC, MAC and CUSA all have worthy FBS programs. It's the bottom feeders (programs that are more FCS) that really drags down the conference's reputation. It gives the detractors, aka mostly the ignorant, ammo to hold the CCU's, App State's, Louisiana's, Buffalo's, hell even Cincinnati's of the world hostage when it comes to legitimate national respect. I do believe if the playoff system was around 10 years ago at least one Boise State and TCU team would have made it. Boise State built up enough equity to make the title game in 2010 had their kicker not missed some crucial FG's against Nevada. As fate and G5 purgatory had it the 11-1 Broncos were relegated to the Las Vegas Bowl.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I do believe if the playoff system was around 10 years ago at least one Boise State and TCU team would have made it. Boise State built up enough equity to make the title game in 2010 had their kicker not missed some crucial FG's against Nevada. As fate and G5 purgatory had it the 11-1 Broncos were relegated to the Las Vegas Bowl.

When I say the system is rigged, this is it right there. Sort of how last year App State's loss to Georgia Southern dropped them all the way from playing Penn State in the Cotton Bowl to playing UAB in the R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl. Hey, it least they were in the Superdome so they could pretend they were in the Sugar Bowl.

[tigonian02]

When I say the system is rigged, this is it right there. Sort of how last year App State's loss to Georgia Southern dropped them all the way from playing Penn State in the Cotton Bowl to playing UAB in the R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl. Hey, it least they were in the Superdome so they could pretend they were in the Sugar Bowl.
One problem that I have with the bowl system is that all the bowls are now contracted out to the conferences. The Sunbelt is tied to specific bowls and unless you make the access bowl or some other absolutely exceptionally great season, then you end up in a contract bowl. I believe App had to decline an invite to the belk bowl last year because of some contractual obligations.

[NY Crusader 2010]

One problem that I have with the bowl system is that all the bowls are now contracted out to the conferences. The Sunbelt is tied to specific bowls and unless you make the access bowl or some other absolutely exceptionally great season, then you end up in a contract bowl. I believe App had to decline an invite to the belk bowl last year because of some contractual obligations.

Even eschewing conference ties, the system is rigged because it's based on who's going to bring the most fans, not "who had the better season". This is why a 7-5 Michigan or Penn State will always get into a "better" bowl game than a 9-3 Northwestern (unless N'western wins the league and gets the automatic Rose Bowl berth). Same logic applies to Boston College in the ACC. Because they bring less fans than say, a Louisville or FSU would with same record, they end up in obscure bowl games all the time.

Severing conference ties as you said, would help SOME G5 teams get into better bowl games. I'm sure the Belk Bowl knew upstart Appalachian would bring more support than say, a jaded Virginia Tech or UNC fan base. But since the league is tied to ACC versus AAC or whatever it is, they have to invite from those conferences first unless no one is available with a 6-6 record or better.

[Nor Eastern]

Severing conference ties as you said, would help SOME G5 teams get into better bowl games. I'm sure the Belk Bowl knew upstart Appalachian would bring more support than say, a jaded Virginia Tech or UNC fan base. But since the league is tied to ACC versus AAC or whatever it is, they have to invite from those conferences first unless no one is available with a 6-6 record or better.


That's one of the perks of the ESPN Bowl Pool. The conferences signed up for Bowl Pool slots. That way ESPN can make a better match-up rather than force schools to go to certain bowls. Now it isn't perfect. But it is better than nothing. A plus for the Belt (even though they don't have a P5 bowl tie-in) is their bowls are all pretty much within the conference footprint (Orlando, Myrtle, Mobile, Montgomery, New Orleans, Boca) which lets the fans travel and all are usually weekend games which bring in more TV eyeballs.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That's one of the perks of the ESPN Bowl Pool. The conferences signed up for Bowl Pool slots. That way ESPN can make a better match-up rather than force schools to go to certain bowls. Now it isn't perfect. But it is better than nothing. A plus for the Belt (even though they don't have a P5 bowl tie-in) is their bowls are all pretty much within the conference footprint (Orlando, Myrtle, Mobile, Montgomery, New Orleans, Boca) which lets the fans travel and all are usually weekend games which bring in more TV eyeballs.

I think the bowl draws in general are awful for the G5. First, there's way too many bowls. A LOT of people agree with that. One potential "positive" from Covid 19 is that some of these "ESPN creata bowls" disappear. I'd be much happier with maybe 3-4 AAC bowl ties as long as it ensures that the 9 or 10 win Top 25ish teams are pitted against a "peer" team in terms of quality. If that means that a 7-5 or maybe 8-4 Temple teams stays home so be it; get better.

I'm also from the era, I'm getting old, when bowl games were about going to a unique, "far away" destination to play against a quality, often intersectional opponent. For some schools like Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan and Oklahoma they were pretty much yearly events but for a lot of schools they weren't. So when you did make a bowl not only was there legitimate excitement, there was far greater to desire to travel and attend due to the novelty. I'll never forget Kansas State overtaking over Tempe when they made their first BCS game in 1997 (Fiesta against Syracuse) or Wisconsin fans traveling to Pasadena in droves in the 90's. Hell, I'd settle for a 10-2 Temple team against a 9-3 Oklahoma State team in the Alamo Bowl or 9-3 Temple vs 9-3 UCLA in the Holiday Bowl. Much better than AAC conference champ Temple vs Toledo in the Boca Bowl...lol....trash. Slap in the face for both schools...

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think the bowl draws in general are awful for the G5. First, there's way too many bowls. A LOT of people agree with that. One potential "positive" from Covid 19 is that some of these "ESPN creata bowls" disappear. I'd be much happier with maybe 3-4 AAC bowl ties as long as it ensures that the 9 or 10 win Top 25ish teams are pitted against a "peer" team in terms of quality. If that means that a 7-5 or maybe 8-4 Temple teams stays home so be it; get better.

I'm also from the era, I'm getting old, when bowl games were about going to a unique, "far away" destination to play against a quality, often intersectional opponent. For some schools like Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan and Oklahoma they were pretty much yearly events but for a lot of schools they weren't. So when you did make a bowl not only was there legitimate excitement, there was far greater to desire to travel and attend due to the novelty. I'll never forget Kansas State overtaking over Tempe when they made their first BCS game in 1997 (Fiesta against Syracuse) or Wisconsin fans traveling to Pasadena in droves in the 90's. Hell, I'd settle for a 10-2 Temple team against a 9-3 Oklahoma State team in the Alamo Bowl or 9-3 Temple vs 9-3 UCLA in the Holiday Bowl. Much better than AAC conference champ Temple vs Toledo in the Boca Bowl...lol....trash. Slap in the face for both schools...

The only way you get better draws for G5s is if you reduce the number of P5 bowls (which isn't happening). Reducing the number of G5 bowls does nothing but limit opportunities for TV exposure for G5s.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The only way you get better draws for G5s is if you reduce the number of P5 bowls (which isn't happening). Reducing the number of G5 bowls does nothing but limit opportunities for TV exposure for G5s.

The TV exposure for the lesser bowl games is rather irrelevant imo. They're basically nothing more background music during the holidays. Sure people watch but they're not engaged enough to remember who played 3 days, err 7 bowls later. For the G5 it's all about the regular season. That's when you make your bread in terms of exposure, rankings and staying power. CCU-BYU will blow away any bowl game either team plays in in terms exposure dollars, increased applicants (Flutie Effect), new and/or more influential donors. Sadly, due to over saturation some of these bottom tier bowl games have proven to be money losers for lesser programs.

Not to mention, bowl season for G5 programs usually means coaching defections. Temple's had skeleton staffs/interim coaches far too often for these holiday exhibitions.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The TV exposure for the lesser bowl games is rather irrelevant imo. They're basically nothing more background music during the holidays. Sure people watch but they're not engaged enough to remember who played 3 days, err 7 bowls later. For the G5 it's all about the regular season. That's when you make your bread in terms of exposure, rankings and staying power. CCU-BYU will blow away any bowl game either team plays in in terms exposure dollars, increased applicants (Flutie Effect), new and/or more influential donors. Sadly, due to over saturation some of these bottom tier bowl games have proven to be money losers for lesser programs.

Not to mention, bowl season for G5 programs usually means coaching defections. Temple's had skeleton staffs/interim coaches far too often for these holiday exhibitions.

One thing I always hated about the bowl season was the fact that the college football coaching carousel takes place in large part, after the regular season but before post-season games are played. To my knowledge this is the only sport where this sort of thing happens. NCAA (or whatever governing body winds up running the top level of CFB) should put some kind of moratorium on courting/negotiating with personnel still engaged in their season. Sort of like how "tampering" is penalized in the pro sports and how free agency doesn't start until the days following the postseason's conclusion.

I know there's a reason for this "necessary evil" -- it has something to do with the tight window between the bowl season and national signing day. But maybe there's a way to push that back a month?

[NY Crusader 2010]

That's one of the perks of the ESPN Bowl Pool. The conferences signed up for Bowl Pool slots. That way ESPN can make a better match-up rather than force schools to go to certain bowls. Now it isn't perfect. But it is better than nothing. A plus for the Belt (even though they don't have a P5 bowl tie-in) is their bowls are all pretty much within the conference footprint (Orlando, Myrtle, Mobile, Montgomery, New Orleans, Boca) which lets the fans travel and all are usually weekend games which bring in more TV eyeballs.

Not to mention, once you get past the major New Year's classic bowl games, for the most part these bowls are looking for the most local option. And often the tie-in reflects the conference of the most local school -- in some cases that school's home stadium. Hawaii will never be in a bowl game other than the Hawaii bowl with the exception of their "100 year team" that got rocked by UGA in the Sugar Bowl. New Mexico will end up in the New Mexico Bowl when .500. Navy recently played at home in the Military Bowl -- and if the Mids aren't available they'll bring a local like Maryland or Va Tech. The Music City Bowl will always pull in Vanderbilt, Tennessee or Kentucky if available. You can go on and on.

[DFW HOYA]

Not to mention, once you get past the major New Year's classic bowl games, for the most part these bowls are looking for the most local option. And often the tie-in reflects the conference of the most local school -- in some cases that school's home stadium. Hawaii will never be in a bowl game other than the Hawaii bowl with the exception of their "100 year team" that got rocked by UGA in the Sugar Bowl. New Mexico will end up in the New Mexico Bowl when .500. Navy recently played at home in the Military Bowl -- and if the Mids aren't available they'll bring a local like Maryland or Va Tech. The Music City Bowl will always pull in Vanderbilt, Tennessee or Kentucky if available. You can go on and on.

Another factor that plays against Eastern schools. The Pinstripe Bowl at Yankee Stadium and the ill-fated Fenway Park game this year doesn't support the number of teams in the region. In Texas, there are 12 I-A teams and seven bowl games (Cotton, Sun, Texas, Alamo, Armed Forces, First Responder, Frisco). If you're over .500 and not play on Jan.1, chances are good you can play close to home.

Time for the "Polar Bowl"? xlolx

[NY Crusader 2010]

Another factor that plays against Eastern schools. The Pinstripe Bowl at Yankee Stadium and the ill-fated Fenway Park game this year doesn't support the number of teams in the region. In Texas, there are 12 I-A teams and seven bowl games (Cotton, Sun, Texas, Alamo, Armed Forces, First Responder, Frisco). If you're over .500 and not play on Jan.1, chances are good you can play close to home.

Time for the "Polar Bowl"? xlolx

The Pinstripe Bowl does best when you get the biggest Big Ten team possible -- the two best draws were 2013 (Rutgers-Notre Dame) and 2014 (Penn State-BC). After that the "best crowd" was when Wisconsin played Miami two years ago. Whole stadium was Wisconsin red, though the energy level quieted down in a 35-3 win. A lot of Badger fans had already planned NY trips for that week because it just so happened that the Packers played the Jets the previous Sunday in the Meadowland (I also happened to go to that one). The thing with New York is that, even though it's not a "college football town", there are thousands of alum from most of the major Big Ten schools as well as the private ACC schools (including ND) that often end up in this game.

A bowl game in Boston is basically putting the eggs in the basket of assuming that BC or UCONN are going to have a winning record. Or try and work out a service academy tie-in. UMass hasn't even sniffed the 6-win yet but would pretty much automatically play in that Fenway bowl if they did.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple has played in 7 bowl games (Military/Eagle Bank in DC 3x, New Mexico, Boca Raton, Gasparilla in Tampa and Independence in Shreveport) since Golden turned around the program. In 2010 the Owls went 8-4 but did not get a bowl invite. DC is about 4.5 hours from where I've spent a good chunk of the last 12 years so accessibility was not an issue for three of those. I did want to go the Eagle Bank Bowl against UCLA in 2009 (our first) but work and holiday logistics prevented that. The only other game I had serious interest in was the Independence Bowl against Duke in 2018. It was a bowl with some history against a pretty good team that had a marquee player, Daniel Jones. Plus, I've never been to Louisiana! However, when Geoff Collins bailed for Georgia Tech and Ed Foley was again named HC for the bowl game I quickly opted out. Foley was named the interim against Wake Forest two years prior when we fell behind 31-7 in the second quarter so I knew the writing was on the wall. No way in hell that happens if Rhule is still there!

In that same time frame I've been to 3 Lehigh playoff games; Delaware 2010, Towson 2011 and UNH 2016. Had Lehigh been a legit playoff team in 2017 I would have traversed the Long Island nightmare to attend the SBU game. I also went to the Colgate-JMU playoff game in 2018.

That basically sums up my excitement when it comes to G5 bowl games.

[DFW HOYA]

In that same time frame I've been to 3 Lehigh playoff games; Delaware 2010, Towson 2011 and UNH 2016. Had Lehigh been a legit playoff team in 2017 I would have traversed the Long Island nightmare to attend the SBU game. I also went to the Colgate-JMU playoff game in 2018. That basically sums up my excitement when it comes to G5 bowl games.

Bucknell or Georgetown fans have not seen any playoff games. Ever.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I believe Bucknell had the misfortune of having their only Patriot League Championship fall the year before we eliminated the postseason ban. 1997 IIRC. Colgate was our first playoff participant the following year, not counting Holy Cross' 1983 playoff appearance which occurred before the formation of the Patriot League.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Bucknell or Georgetown fans have not seen any playoff games. Ever.

Both had their chance! In 1997, Bucknell was 10-0 and ranked #24 heading into the season finale, aka the PL Title Game, against Colgate. Sadly for the Bison, their moment to immediately establish a national presence in the PL's maiden voyage into the playoffs did not go well. The 6-4 Raiders rolled to a 48-14 victory in Hamilton. That would be the first of 3 straight 1-AA playoff appearances for the Raiders. The fortunes of both programs may have changed forever that November day in Hamilton. From that point on, Colgate was a PL power and Bucknell an also ran at best.

Georgetown had a similar opportunity against Lehigh in 2011 and came up well short. The sad reality is, the commitment needed to challenge for PL titles and at large bids simply hasn't been there at Bucknell and Georgetown.

Bucknell's lone PL title team, 1996, posted a seemingly fitting 6-5 record. The Bison went 1-4 in the OOC that included losing to #22 W&M 47-0 and Harvard 30-7.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm eagerly waiting for some of these final G5 bowl pairings to be announced. Who got screwed and who REALLY got screwed?

Cincinnati will play UGA in the Peach Bowl.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Undefeated AP #9 Coastal Carolina will be Liberty in the Cure Bowl...what a bunch of garbage.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Looks a FCS'ish/G5'ish Playoff Bracket without anyone officially saying so...xcoffeex

Myrtle Beach Bowl
Appalachian State (8-3) vs North Texas (4-5)

Idaho Potato Bowl
Tulane (6-5) vs Nevada (6-2)

Boca Raton Bowl
UCF (6-3) vs #16 BYU (10-1)

New Orleans Bowl
La Tech (5-4) vs Georgia Southern (7-5, 12 games?!?!)

Montgomery Bowl
Memphis (7-3) vs Florida Atlantic (5-3)

New Mexico Bowl
Hawaii (4-4) vs Houston (3-4), junk...

Camelia Bowl
Marshall (7-2) vs Buffalo (5-1)

Cure Bowl
Liberty (9-1) vs #12 Coastal Carolina (11-0)

First Responder Bowl
#19 Louisiana (9-1) vs UT-San Antonio (7-4)

LendingTree Bowl
WKU (5-6) vs Georgia State (5-4)

Arizona Bowl
Ball State (6-1) vs #22 San Jose State (6-0)

[NY Crusader 2010]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- Coastal gets the reward of facing Liberty for all their efforts this season. YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!!!

Literally, you spend all that money to go FBS, are on the verge of the possibility of a New Year's Bowl as the #2 G5 team in the country.

And you wind up in a bowl game no one has ever heard of against another school that moved up from the same FCS conference you were both in 5 years ago.

[DFW HOYA]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- Coastal gets the reward of facing Liberty for all their efforts this season. YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!!!
Literally, you spend all that money to go FBS, are on the verge of the possibility of a New Year's Bowl as the #2 G5 team in the country.
And you wind up in a bowl game no one has ever heard of against another school that moved up from the same FCS conference you were both in 5 years ago.

Coastal wasn't going to a New Year's bowl. The Sun Belt championship game was canceled and Cincinnati was not going to be cut out of the G-6 at-large, even with a loss.

The Sun Belt doesn't get a great selection of bowls. The New Orleans and Cure Bowls are the best of a collection of misfit toys that included the Idaho Potato, First Responder, Frisco (cancelled), Myrtle Beach (at their home stadium), and New Mexico (moved to Frisco, TX). Playing in Orlando on Dec. 26 is much better than Boise, Albuquerque or even Frisco in December, and certainly better than a game at your home stadium. They'll get plenty of coverage as the lead of the five bowls that Saturday.

And guess what? this is what Coastal wanted when they left I-AA--a Top 20 berth in four seasons is remarkable, even under these circumstances. And that's why teams want to move up from the no-wattage world of NCAA playoffs to a bowl game. Even Holy Cross fans would be more excited about seeing their team before 20,000 in Orlando in December and nationwide TV, than playing in Long Branch NJ before an announced crowd of 2,817.

[Daytripper]

Coastal wasn't going to a New Year's bowl. The Sun Belt championship game was canceled and Cincinnati was not going to be cut out of the G-6 at-large, even with a loss.

The Sun Belt doesn't get a great selection of bowls. The New Orleans and Cure Bowls are the best of a collection of misfit toys that included the Idaho Potato, First Responder, Frisco (cancelled), Myrtle Beach (at their home stadium), and New Mexico (moved to Frisco, TX). Playing in Orlando on Dec. 26 is much better than Boise, Albuquerque or even Frisco in December, and certainly better than a game at your home stadium. They'll get plenty of coverage as the lead of the five bowls that Saturday.

And guess what? this is what Coastal wanted when they left I-AA--a Top 20 berth in four seasons is remarkable, even under these circumstances. And that's why teams want to move up from the no-wattage world of NCAA playoffs to a bowl game. Even Holy Cross fans would be more excited about seeing their team before 20,000 in Orlando in December and nationwide TV, than playing in Long Branch NJ before an announced crowd of 2,817.

This is why the P5 split will happen and is best for everybody concerned. Those P5 weaklings like Kansas and Vanderbilt can still pretend they are relevant. Everybody else, including Coastal, Liberty, NDSU and other G5 and Top flight FCS football programs can fight it out in a kick ass playoff scenario.

[DFW HOYA]

This is why the P5 split will happen and is best for everybody concerned.

Except it won't be five. Maybe four.

In 2013, the Big East lost its seat at the table when the music stopped. In 2024, the Big 12 will once the Pac-12 places a call to Texas and Oklahoma.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This is why the P5 split will happen and is best for everybody concerned. Those P5 weaklings like Kansas and Vanderbilt can still pretend they are relevant. Everybody else, including Coastal, Liberty, NDSU and other G5 and Top flight FCS football programs can fight it out in a kick ass playoff scenario.

The split happened years ago. The first evolution process, or at least modern day change, was the formation of 1-A and 1-AA. The second phase came with the Ivy League demoting itself to 1-AA and BYU winning the national title in 1984. Getting the Ivy League and its unique ideology out of the room definitely created a sigh of relief. Also, BYU's 1984 National Title ruffled a lot power program feathers. The Cougars beat one ranked team in the regular season, played in the good but far from great WAC and capped a 13-0 season by beating 6-5 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl. The fact BYU was named consensus National Champs over 11-1 Washington got the ball rolling to ensure an an "outsider" would have very difficult to nearly impossible path to the title. It worked because it hasn't happened since. Even the SWC's best teams were relegated to second class citizen status towards the end of the conference's existence. Texas A&M entered the 1992 Cotton Bowl undefeated against Notre Dame with zero shot at the title. In 1993 they were 10-1 and ranked #5 against a 4th ranked a ND team who still did have title hopes.

By the early to mid 90's the power conference hierarchy was established leaving ND as the only national viable independent. That allowed for the creation of the Bowl Alliance ( aka Power Conference alliance) which evolved into the BCS aka BCS conference, non-BCS conference.

I really don't see some merger of G5 and FCS because there remains a large chasm when it comes to funding, facilities, university mission etc. Plus, I still can't see the administrators/state government in the Big 10 leaving the MAC schools behind.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Except it won't be five. Maybe four.

In 2013, the Big East lost its seat at the table when the music stopped. In 2024, the Big 12 will once the Pac-12 places a call to Texas and Oklahoma.

I think it's "more likely" that disgruntled Nebraska and A&M return to the Big 12 than Texas and OU leave for the PAC 12. With that said, I'd put the odds at 100/1 and 110/1 respectively that either scenario occurs...

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think it's "more likely" that disgruntled Nebraska and A&M return to the Big 12 than Texas and OU leave for the PAC 12. With that said, I'd put the odds at 100/1 and 110/1 respectively that either scenario occurs...

Zero shot Nebraska and A&M go back to the Big 12.

About a decade ago, there were rumblings about the Texas and Oklahoma schools going west.

I could see possibly => Texas and Oklahoma to the Big Ten and OK State, Texas Tech to the Pac 12.

Then you'd have some kind of hybrid MWC/SWC Conference that could start brewing with the likes of Baylor, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Colorado State, Boise, Houston

[NY Crusader 2010]

This is why the P5 split will happen and is best for everybody concerned. Those P5 weaklings like Kansas and Vanderbilt can still pretend they are relevant. Everybody else, including Coastal, Liberty, NDSU and other G5 and Top flight FCS football programs can fight it out in a kick ass playoff scenario.

I think you will see more of a G7 than a G5 with current setup. Mountain West and AAC will stay in the top division along with Army, Notre Dame and BYU. Longtime "major college" football participant Rice will need to get to the chopper or wind up in our division.

Welcome home UCONN and UMASS along with the MAC, Sun Belt and C-USA.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Zero shot Nebraska and A&M go back to the Big 12.

About a decade ago, there were rumblings about the Texas and Oklahoma schools going west.

I could see possibly => Texas and Oklahoma to the Big Ten and OK State, Texas Tech to the Pac 12.

Then you'd have some kind of hybrid MWC/SWC Conference that could start brewing with the likes of Baylor, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Colorado State, Boise, Houston

I personally think both options have zero chance of happening. I simply don't see the Texas and California schools ever co-existing. Way too different ideology.....

[Professor]

Seems like an anti bowl crowd lol

[katss07]

Zero shot Nebraska and A&M go back to the Big 12.

About a decade ago, there were rumblings about the Texas and Oklahoma schools going west.

I could see possibly => Texas and Oklahoma to the Big Ten and OK State, Texas Tech to the Pac 12.

Then you'd have some kind of hybrid MWC/SWC Conference that could start brewing with the likes of Baylor, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Colorado State, Boise, Houston
Zero chance Oklahoma legislation allows OU to ditch Okie State. None.

The Big 12 is in a much better spot than it was when those PAC-16/Big East rumors came about in 2010. If anything, they'll be adding schools during the next realignment. And it's not like the pool of schools to choose from is thin: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, SMU, Colorado State, New Mexico are all teams that wanted in when they looked into expansion a few years ago, not to mention the persistent rumor that Arizona and Arizona State could look east to the Big 12.

Texas isn't leaving the Big 12 any time soon, they love the power they have too much. And, especially if it expands, the conference isn't in a position where it could lose it's key members.

[DFW HOYA]

The Big 12 is in a much better spot than it was when those PAC-16/Big East rumors came about in 2010. If anything, they'll be adding schools during the next realignment. And it's not like the pool of schools to choose from is thin: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, SMU, Colorado State, New Mexico are all teams that wanted in when they looked into expansion a few years ago, not to mention the persistent rumor that Arizona and Arizona State could look east to the Big 12.

If the Big 12 really was serious about SMU, that school would need to take a decided step up in football funding and to either move games back off campus (Cotton Bowl) or expand Ford Stadium to 45,000 or more. The same should also apply to Cincinnati, where Nippert Stadium is 40,000 in name only.

[katss07]

If the Big 12 really was serious about SMU, that school would need to take a decided step up in football funding and to either move games back off campus (Cotton Bowl) or expand Ford Stadium to 45,000 or more. The same should also apply to Cincinnati, where Nippert Stadium is 40,000 in name only.
SMU has the second largest football budget of any non P5 school, and second in the AAC. SMU has also seen almost double the private donations they were at in 2012 (these are reports from 2016, most recent that can be found considering SMU is private). Adding TCU was a success. SMU could bring the same. Cincinnati functioned fine as a BCS program for years in the Big East. I don't see why they couldn't do it again, although admittedly I haven't done a deep dive into the pros and cons of each school (simply looked at an article from the time to list off teams).

Regardless of how you feel about each candidate though, the Big 12 is stronger today than it was then, and is in no position to lose their conference powers. Adding schools would likely stabilize it even more if they choose that route. But I believe it'll be fine regardless. And I agree with the point that Texas and California schools might not function well together and will look to avoid that.

[Sitting Bull]

No one from Georgetown should ever mock ANYONE about football attendance, paid or otherwise. There is no bigger joke in “D1” football than the Hoyas.

[DFW HOYA]

No one from Georgetown should ever mock ANYONE about football attendance, paid or otherwise. There is no bigger joke in “D1” football than the Hoyas.

Thanks for your thoughts, but attendance at Georgetown is a direct result of insufficient seating and, not to be underestimated, insufficient transportation options to get there. There are less than 100 surface parking spaces on the campus and many people choose simply not to make an effort to attend given the difficulty in getting to the campus and/or parking in lots away from the campus that are significantly overpriced. Losing doesn't help, either. Neither does playing opponents most Georgetown alumni and/or DC residents have little or no awareness of.

Would that Georgetown play its games at Audi Field, more people would choose to attend. Perhaps you should learn a little more about the program before casually dismissing it otherwise.

I have seen SMU games as far back as 1979 when Russ Potts marketed it as "Mustang Mania". (That first game I attended drew 49,000 to see them play Rice.) From Texas Stadium to Ownby Stadium, back to the Cotton Bowl and then at Ford Stadium since 2000, the decline of student and alumni support in terms of attendance over the last 40 years is striking, and as such Ford was built with a decided non-P5 approach, much like Yulman Stadium at Tulane. I have seen games at Ford where SMU might not have had 4,000 in the seats there.

Were SMU to ever be considered for P-5 and to draw crowds comparable to TCU or Baylor, they have to significantly up their game in the seats and in the budget. As for budgets, here is a 2019 EADA comparison between operating expenses between the two local schools:

SMU: $3,480,874
TCU: $7,263,838

By comparison, neither Georgetown or W&M is in this conversation:

Georgetown: $508,646
William & Mary: $901,580

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Zero chance Oklahoma legislation allows OU to ditch Okie State. None.

The Big 12 is in a much better spot than it was when those PAC-16/Big East rumors came about in 2010. If anything, they'll be adding schools during the next realignment. And it's not like the pool of schools to choose from is thin: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, SMU, Colorado State, New Mexico are all teams that wanted in when they looked into expansion a few years ago, not to mention the persistent rumor that Arizona and Arizona State could look east to the Big 12.

Texas isn't leaving the Big 12 any time soon, they love the power they have too much. And, especially if it expands, the conference isn't in a position where it could lose it's key members.

Cincinnati has all the pre-reqs to be a "power conference" program. Athletically, they have an excellent tradition in men's basketball and football has been nationally viable for 20 years. Their basketball facility, 5/3 Arena, recently saw a significant renovation that positions it among the nicest digs in college hoops. Nippert Stadium is not very big but it has historical significance and offers great theater; Bobby Dodd is fair comparison. They also have access to Paul Brown Stadium for bigger games. Oklahoma traveled there a few years ago. More importantly, it's a school with an endowment over a billion dollars and some top notch undergrad and professional level programs. Ohio State alums might think they are the only thing that matters in the state but the reality is outside of that land of delusion U of Cincinnati and Miami (OH) have significant respect in places where it matters. One could argue Ohio U. has inched closer to that table. Heck, even Akron, Kent State, Toledo, YSU have influential people. Jim Tressel is still the president of YSU!

Temple remains to this day the only program to be booted from a BCS/P5 conference due to ineptitude. Perhaps we could spin that to our advantage down the road. Like, Cincinnati, we have a lot to offer; basically the Pitt of Eastern PA.

I went to the JMU board and did some browsing. Seems like there's a reasonable, definitely not overwhelming, desire to be in FBS. In hindsight the SBC was a "better than we thought" opportunity. With that said, I understand why some preferred the MAC instead. While I get the concern over being left in limbo I firmly believe life as FCS power is just as good as being one of the top 10-15 G5 programs given how broken Division 1 college football is.

The Dukes need to get their men's hoops program together. NDSU's is way WAY better! The Bison also have a good wrestling program.

[Libertine]

I have seen games at Ford where SMU might not have had 4,000 in the seats there.

Were SMU to ever be considered for P-5 and to draw crowds comparable to TCU or Baylor, they have to significantly up their game in the seats and in the budget.

You're not wrong, Hoya, but SMU is a little bit of a unique situation. SMU's football tailgating scene is off the charts, drawing more attendance than the actual football game, and their stadium is kind of wedged into a high-end residential neighborhood. SMU takes advantage of this by requiring purchase of a game ticket to enter the only tailgating area available and, as a result, official paid (and legitimate) attendance is often 3x-4x actual butts in the bleachers. For SMU to up their game in the seats without killing that particular golden goose would be a lot more complicated for them than a lot of other places.

[Sitting Bull]

DFW, I wasn’t trying to pick a bone. I’ve been on GUs campus. I have seen what you offer as a D1 football stadium. It’s not a serious attempt. I just thought it was a bit over the top when you took shots at Holy Cross attendance.

[DFW HOYA]

DFW, I wasn’t trying to pick a bone. I’ve been on GUs campus. I have seen what you offer as a D1 football stadium. It’s not a serious attempt.

Coming in 2021. Zable it's not, but anything's better than what they had.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWId7F962Tk&feature=youtu.be

Bottom line, it's not easy to fill seats with 19 losing seasons in its last 20, and with no discernible opponents to schedule. Could games with UConn, Villanova or W&M sell more seats than Bucknell and Marist? I would hope so, but it would be better served at a place like this:
https://aviewfrommyseat.com/wallpaper/Red22jlj-20200208201048.jpg

[Daytripper]

If the Big 12 really was serious about SMU, that school would need to take a decided step up in football funding and to either move games back off campus (Cotton Bowl) or expand Ford Stadium to 45,000 or more. The same should also apply to Cincinnati, where Nippert Stadium is 40,000 in name only.

I don't think that stadium capacity will be as much of litmus test for conference/division affiliation in the future. Attendance was shrinking before pandemic. I don't think that trend will reverse course after it is over. While Alabama, Ohio State, TAMU and NDSU will continue to pack a huge stadium, other FCS, G5 and other FBS won't. What's the point of a 50,000 capacity stadium if you only have 30,000 people there? Stadiums/facilities in the future should be about quality, not size.

[katss07]

SMU wouldn't even have the smallest P5 stadium if they were to join the Big 12 without expanding.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I don't think that stadium capacity will be as much of litmus test for conference/division affiliation in the future. Attendance was shrinking before pandemic. I don't think that trend will reverse course after it is over. While Alabama, Ohio State, TAMU and NDSU will continue to pack a huge stadium, other FCS, G5 and other FBS won't. What's the point of a 50,000 capacity stadium if you only have 30,000 people there? Stadiums/facilities in the future should be about quality, not size.

Great point, especially at the G5 level.

20 years ago, one of the "requirements" to move up to I-A was to have a 30,000 seat stadium. I'm sorry but there's no need for Buffalo or Middle Tennessee to have stadiums this big.

In college basketball, you'll notice that most smaller schools that build new arenas are modernizing but in some cases actually shrinking capacity.

[Mocs123]

I'll give one data point on that - our stadium seats ~20K and we average half that for home games. I attended an away game at ETSU a couple of years ago and even though their stadium only seats 7K it was a sellout (so they said, but it was 90% full for sure) and there felt like there were more people there then at a UTC game even though we have 3K more people there.

If we were building a new stadium today, I'd propose a 10K seat stadium. I'd rather have standing room only then have most games half capacity. The same goes for our basketball arena. We have a 11K capacity arena that really should be 5K capacity. The last time I remember us having much more than 5K was nearly 25 years ago. Most games are more like 3K-3.5K.

[DFW HOYA]

What's the point of a 50,000 capacity stadium if you only have 30,000 people there? Stadiums/facilities in the future should be about quality, not size.

If you don't think there will ever come a time when you can sell the extra seats and/or attract an opponent that can do so, then build small (e.g., Richmond). If you're optimistic about the future (James Madison), you go big.

And you can rest assured Jackson State is glad they didn't settle on some smaller replacement for Veterans Memorial Stadium back in 2013 when the domed stadium plan fell short.

[lionsrking2]

I'll give one data point on that - our stadium seats ~20K and we average half that for home games. I attended an away game at ETSU a couple of years ago and even though their stadium only seats 7K it was a sellout (so they said, but it was 90% full for sure) and there felt like there were more people there then at a UTC game even though we have 3K more people there.

If we were building a new stadium today, I'd propose a 10K seat stadium. I'd rather have standing room only then have most games half capacity. The same goes for our basketball arena. We have a 11K capacity arena that really should be 5K capacity. The last time I remember us having much more than 5K was nearly 25 years ago. Most games are more like 3K-3.5K.

We've been criticized for years for not expanding Strawberry Stadium (7,408 permanent/10k with standing room) but it's perfect for our needs and only takes about 4k to create good atmosphere due to being tight quarters, close to the field, and steep slope on each side. When it's packed — as it was for Nicholls last year — it's a great atmosphere. I wouldn't mind closing in an end zone or creating a berm, but any future facility upgrades should lean stronger towards fan experience than towards capacity.

[Daytripper]

We've been criticized for years for not expanding Strawberry Stadium (7,408 permanent/10k with standing room) but it's perfect for our needs and only takes about 4k to create good atmosphere due to being tight quarters, close to the field, and steep slope on each side. When it's packed — as it was for Nicholls last year — it's a great atmosphere. I wouldn't mind closing in an end zone or creating a berm, but any future facility upgrades should lean stronger towards fan experience than towards capacity.

I think this is going to be Sam Houston's philosophy moving forward. At least I hope it is.

[Mocs123]

I think I've read that Montana has used the philosophy to not expand past demand in the past and while they may not be the typical FCS school being the primary state school, I think they have done that right, rather than just adding 20K seats that might sit vacant.