MEAC/SWAC Bowl Payout

[superman7515]

MEAC/SWAC Celebration Bowl will pay out $1,000,000 to each conference.

The representative from the MEAC/SWAC will receive $200,000 in tickets to the game that they must sell in order to make a portion of their own payout. And by the way, all of the complimentary tickets for the band, cheerleaders, admin, President, players guests, etc must come from the $200,000 in free tickets that were given to them, so the more family, friends, and band you bring, the smaller your payout is. Everyone knows that HBCU's typically have pretty large bands. Here's the breakdown from a very knowledgable former front office guy over on MFZ...



For simplicity's sake, let's say that Norfolk State was sent 8,000 tickets @ $25 each for the Celebration Bowl. That gives them the potential to make $200,000 if they sell ALL of their tickets before the game.

HOWEVER, out of those 8,000 tickets you will have to use some of them for your Player Guest List, the athletic department's traveling party, the President's Office traveling party, your marching band and some of your key sponsors who have "postseason tickets" in their sponsorship contracts.

The two big items are the marching band and the Player Guest List.

The Rule of Thumb for seating a marching band is that they take up 3 seats per instrument. Let's say that your band is marching 300 people...that's 900 seats that you have to "kill" (lock up and let your auditors destroy so that they can't be accidently sold).

All marching band personnel who do not have instruments (directors, advisors, music department personnel) need an additional 40 tickets.

Now, let's assume that all 65 players have the allotted four (4) guests on the list. That's 260 tickets that you can't sell.

Your President's office requests 120 tickets.

Your AD needs 80 tickets for various people that he/she needs to take care of...including athletic department staff.

Your SID needs 20 tickets to take care of media obligations.

Your marketing people need 140 tickets to take care of obligations in sponsorship contracts.

All of your coaches have tickets written into their contracts...starting with the head coach, who has 20 per game. Including the training staff and assistant coaches, they need 80 tickets.

Just using these conservative numbers, you are already out of 1,640 tickets for a loss of $41,000...and you still haven't housed your players, band and cheerleaders in hotels, fed your players, band and cheerleaders, paid for bus transportation or sold one single ticket.


Of the remaining $800,000... That is going to be split either 80/20 or 70/30 between the participating school and the remaining schools and MEAC office. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it goes 80/20 and the participating school gets the biggest possible share of the cash payout. That equates to $640,000 in cash. Of course, you also have to feed and house the players, band, cheerleaders, etc for for 2 weeks after the semester is over, so you can take a pretty big bite out of that with all of those additional costs. All costs are the responsibility of the participating teams, no costs will be handled by sponsors, ESPN, etc. Food alone, going with a budget of $40 a day per player, with 100 people on the team (it's a bowl game, so everyone gets to go), there's $40,000 for the 10 days on campus for practice before travelling to Atlanta, and you haven't fed the band and cheerleaders yet, nor housed anyone. And if you didn't sell all of your $200,000 in tickets, then you might face cost overruns that need to be paid for out of the cash disbursement. Taking the $200,000 in tickets seems to be a risky endeavor, especially if someone like a Morgan State or Delaware State wins the conference, there is no way they approach $200,000 in ticket sales and the travel costs are going to be considerably higher because there's no way you can reasonably ask those teams to bus everyone to Atlanta.

Anyway, that leaves $160,000 left to distribute to the rest of the conference. I'm sure the front office will take a cut, but even if they were suddenly altruistic enough to give away the entire 20%, that's only $16,000 for the remaining schools. So a team like SC State or NC A&T had their national title dreams taken away by teams like Delaware State and Savannah State for $16,000... Ouch.

The payout should still be north of $500,000 for the participating team, so that's nothing to sneeze at, but it's also not the windfall that was hinted at. And with only $16,000 to everyone that doesn't make the bowl game, there could be some hard feelings in the halls.

[WestCoastAggie]

ESPN is paying for the participating schools' band & cheerleaders (2 night stay + food & possible entrance into the game). So any comp tix won't be for their use. Also, nothing has been finalized.

[PAllen]

The last thing that ESPN wants is for these teams to leave their large bands, flag squads, and cheerleaders at home. I'm guessing that ESPN will cover whatever it takes to get those portions of the "game experience" to the game willingly. ESPN really doesn't want an empty stadium with no big flashy bands. They want it to look like the Bayou Classic not a first or second round playoff game.

[WileECoyote06]

MEAC/SWAC Celebration Bowl will pay out $1,000,000 to each conference.

The representative from the MEAC/SWAC will receive $200,000 in tickets to the game that they must sell in order to make a portion of their own payout. And by the way, all of the complimentary tickets for the band, cheerleaders, admin, President, players guests, etc must come from the $200,000 in free tickets that were given to them, so the more family, friends, and band you bring, the smaller your payout is. Everyone knows that HBCU's typically have pretty large bands. Here's the breakdown from a very knowledgable former front office guy over on MFZ...



Of the remaining $800,000... That is going to be split either 80/20 or 70/30 between the participating school and the remaining schools and MEAC office. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it goes 80/20 and the participating school gets the biggest possible share of the cash payout. That equates to $640,000 in cash. Of course, you also have to feed and house the players, band, cheerleaders, etc for for 2 weeks after the semester is over, so you can take a pretty big bite out of that with all of those additional costs. All costs are the responsibility of the participating teams, no costs will be handled by sponsors, ESPN, etc. Food alone, going with a budget of $40 a day per player, with 100 people on the team (it's a bowl game, so everyone gets to go), there's $40,000 for the 10 days on campus for practice before travelling to Atlanta, and you haven't fed the band and cheerleaders yet, nor housed anyone. And if you didn't sell all of your $200,000 in tickets, then you might face cost overruns that need to be paid for out of the cash disbursement. Taking the $200,000 in tickets seems to be a risky endeavor, especially if someone like a Morgan State or Delaware State wins the conference, there is no way they approach $200,000 in ticket sales and the travel costs are going to be considerably higher because there's no way you can reasonably ask those teams to bus everyone to Atlanta.

Anyway, that leaves $160,000 left to distribute to the rest of the conference. I'm sure the front office will take a cut, but even if they were suddenly altruistic enough to give away the entire 20%, that's only $16,000 for the remaining schools. So a team like SC State or NC A&T had their national title dreams taken away by teams like Delaware State and Savannah State for $16,000... Ouch.

The payout should still be north of $500,000 for the participating team, so that's nothing to sneeze at, but it's also not the windfall that was hinted at. And with only $16,000 to everyone that doesn't make the bowl game, there could be some hard feelings in the halls.

SC State allegedly voted for the game, and Savannah State against.

[superman7515]

SC State allegedly voted for the game, and Savannah State against.

Yeah, I was just using it as example, although in Savannah's case I would have just taken the cash, haha.

If nothing else, it's going to be a wild ride once this contract gets to a state school where someone can FOIA what it entails. A lot still in flux, so maybe it turns out better than it initially sounds.

[DSUrocks07]

Yeah, I was just using it as example, although in Savannah's case I would have just taken the cash, haha.

If nothing else, it's going to be a wild ride once this contract gets to a state school where someone can FOIA what it entails. A lot still in flux, so maybe it turns out better than it initially sounds.
One can only hope so at this point...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Man, it's more like the Sun Belt than I thought xlolx xlolx xlolx

If Delaware State won the conference, could they refuse to play in the game? It seems like a distinct possibility that such a school might determine that it is a better deal not to play.

[BluBengal07]

well, looking forward to the publication of details. xcoffeex

[AshevilleApp2]

Man, it's more like the Sun Belt than I thought xlolx xlolx xlolx

If Delaware State won the conference, could they refuse to play in the game? It seems like a distinct possibility that such a school might determine that it is a better deal not to play.

How much has Lehigh netted from their playoff participation lately? Or ever?

[centennial]

Let's say the payout is $30k per team, which is a generous estimate. What does $30k do for a D1 football team in 2015? Nothing.
The winners of the MEAC and SWAC should net around $4-500k. Does 500k actually allow these schools to get better? Possibly. However, you cannot count that as a revenue stream and must look at it as a minor windfall situation. You will not win every year and the lower ranked teams, some of them have close to no chance of winning.
There is a huge factor of advertising that does help but when the product on the field is subpar, the game will seem more novelty with bands, cheerleaders etc. Overall this is a poorly conceived idea. It could have been better with lets say $5 million and the winning schools getting an extra 100k. I question the leadership of MEAC to go with this plan. The correct course of action would be to recruit better, raise the level of football and get more sponsorship, donations.

[number1]

Let's say the payout is $30k per team, which is a generous estimate. What does $30k do for a D1 football team in 2015? Nothing.
The winners of the MEAC and SWAC should net around $4-500k. Does 500k actually allow these schools to get better? Possibly. However, you cannot count that as a revenue stream and must look at it as a minor windfall situation. You will not win every year and the lower ranked teams, some of them have close to no chance of winning.
There is a huge factor of advertising that does help but when the product on the field is subpar, the game will seem more novelty with bands, cheerleaders etc. Overall this is a poorly conceived idea. It could have been better with lets say $5 million and the winning schools getting an extra 100k. I question the leadership of MEAC to go with this plan. The correct course of action would be to recruit better, raise the level of football and get more sponsorship, donations.

What's stopping them from doing that? Choosing to do a bowl game instead of the playoffs should not hinder them from doing those things. You can still schedule the "powerhouse " FCS schools for the non-conference schedule.

[centennial]

What's stopping them from doing that? Choosing to do a bowl game instead of the playoffs should not hinder them from doing those things. You can still schedule the "powerhouse " FCS schools for the non-conference schedule.
Misplaced priorities? Bad leadership? No good FCS will want to visit without good level of football. At this point the MEAC/SWAC outside of the top few teams are bodybag home games.

[BluBengal07]

there are many programs that are dead weights in many fcs conferences. just relevant through association. however, in a lot of cases, FCS is somewhat relevant through association; football. xcoffeex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

in the FCS championship game, since it's an NCAA-sponsored event, the travel party (at least back in 2013) was 145 people and had their travel expenses covered, including a stipend to cover accommodations.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/680-while-bowls-struggle-to-sell-out-fcs-championship-sells-out-in-days

I know bands are not a part of this equation, but I believe NDSU paid for the band to attend the last two years (correct me if I'm wrong).

[PAllen]

Seriously? You people think that the vast majority of MEAC/SWAC schools give a crap whether the FCS "elite" want to visit for a home game? News flash, most of the fan bases and boosters in all of FCS combined don't give a crap whether or not NDSU wants to come for a visit. FCS is all about small school rivalries and teams that your fanbase has heard of before. That usually comes from having a historical tie. in most HBCU cases, that's other HBCUs. Alabama A&M gets more out of playing Tuskegee than they ever would out of playing Delaware or Montana. I likeFCS football, but you guys who think you're the Ohio State, Alabama, or LSU of this subdivision need to realize that that type of prestige doesn't translate at this level no matter how good of a program you have.

[PAllen]

in the FCS championship game, since it's an NCAA-sponsored event, the travel party (at least back in 2013) was 145 people and had their travel expenses covered, including a stipend to cover accommodations.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/680-while-bowls-struggle-to-sell-out-fcs-championship-sells-out-in-days

I know bands are not a part of this equation, but I believe NDSU paid for the band to attend the last two years (correct me if I'm wrong).

Could be, but it appears that ESPN actually cares about presenting this MEAC/SWAC Bowl so that changes everything.

[BluBengal07]

Seriously? You people think that the vast majority of MEAC/SWAC schools give a crap whether the FCS "elite" want to visit for a home game? News flash, most of the fan bases and boosters in all of FCS combined don't give a crap whether or not NDSU wants to come for a visit. FCS is all about small school rivalries and teams that your fanbase has heard of before. That usually comes from having a historical tie. in most HBCU cases, that's other HBCUs. Alabama A&M gets more out of playing Tuskegee than they ever would out of playing Delaware or Montana. I likeFCS football, but you guys who think you're the Ohio State, Alabama, or LSU of this subdivision need to realize that that type of prestige doesn't translate at this level no matter how good of a program you have.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55579967.jpg

[clenz]

So...

This is all just a numbers game to make losing money look like not losing money, just like the bowl system?

Gotcha.

[WestCoastAggie]

So since I was the person that started that fire on the other side, let me attempt to clear it up.

Yes, information was given out during an Alumni meeting in Greensboro, NC. In this Meeting, it was said by A&T Officials that the MEAC champ was getting $200,000 in tickets. It was also mentioned that the remaining $800,000 would be split either 70/30 or 80/20 in favor of the participating team and ESPN will pay for the school's band and cheerleaders travel and boarding in Atlanta (two nights & food).

In essence, if everything goes perfect (80/20 split and the school sells the full allotment of tickets), the school can bring in up to $840,000 in gross revenue. That's in the ball park north of 10% of some of the budgets in the MEAC.

Honestly, this game benefits those schools that have alumni within a 2 to 3 hour travel time (car or plane) to Atlanta. MEAC north teams would have expenses from keeping the dorms open a week during winter break to the extensive travel of their travel party, and would have trouble unloading $200K worth of tickets in a week's time.

It was also mentioned, especially about the last part, that aside from the $200,000 in tickets, nothing else was agreed upon and no contract was given to the schools nor was signed by any of the Co-CEO's.

IMHO, if A&T can get $640,000 & $200,000 in tickets, that would be a pretty decent amount of change for giving up the AQ. It emotionally stings but financially, it makes plenty of sense.

But this whole thing is just fluid...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So, nobody sees anything wrong about the conferences dumping $200,000 worth of tickets on a school, calling it a "payout" and then giving them a week to sell every ticket in order to make money?

The next step will probably doing the same trick the bowls do, forcing the schools to sell every ticket. That will make the conf* I mean the bowl a lot of extra change.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It is very hard to imagine schools not named Howard, FAMU, NCAT, and NC Central being able to approach selling $200,000 worth of tickets for anything on such short notice. I don't even think BCU or Hampton could.

[WestCoastAggie]

It is very hard to imagine schools not named Howard, FAMU, NCAT, and NC Central being able to approach selling $200,000 worth of tickets for anything on such short notice. I don't even think BCU or Hampton could.

You'd want to take Howard off of that list!

[WileECoyote06]

You'd want to take Howard off of that list!

I love my school, but we can't sell that many tickets either under short notice. You're talking FAMU, A&T, and SCSU, tops.

[WestCoastAggie]

I love my school, but we can't sell that many tickets either under short notice either. You're talking FAMU, A&T, and SCSU, tops.

A&T & SCSU only had 24K in the Georgia Dome last September. Most of those fans were Bulldogs.

[superman7515]

No offense intended to my home state, you wouldn't sell $10,000 in tickets to Hornets fans (especially with a weeks notice) if DelState makes it, and I'd be willing to bet any amount of money you can come up with. As they say in Sussex, "Ain't gon' happen." The school might be able to buy up a crap load and hand them out to donors, friends of the President, some sponsors, etc... But you aren't selling worth a damn in Dover.

[walliver]

This game appears to exist for ESPN purposes.
It seems like each team gets $200,000 worth of tickets. So a total of $400,000 worth of tickets is given away for free by the sponsors. Since fans of the schools involved will likely buy from their own schools, there will likely not be a lot of other tickets sold. This suggests very little revenue from ticket salesto those putting on the game.

It would appear that almost all revenue would come from ESPN and corporate sponsors.

I am somewhat surprised by the potential distribution of the cash receipts. 70/30 or 80/20 in favor of the participating team doesn't seem to give a lot of benefits to other conference members. Although 1/8th to 1/12th of 20% of $600,000 is more than teams get for the FCS playoffs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://thetandd.com/print-specific/column/celebration-bowl-has-drawbacks-benefits/article_ea70ae9c-bdfb-5425-a16d-f24fe8bc4b4d.html


The bowl game won’t be a relief in regards to travel. Teams will have to come out of pocket to gas up buses, house and feed players, coaches and support staffs for multiple days, and that becomes quite the expensive proposition when your traveling party could check in at 100 people.

While the exact terms of bowl contract haven’t been made publicly available, a long-standing arrangement that bowl games often have with participating teams is the sale of tickets. If, say, South Carolina State was to win the MEAC this season, the school would be forced to purchase a large block of tickets, certainly a four-digit number, possibly five. If those tickets were sold, S.C. State would be able to keep the revenue. If those tickets went unsold, the school would eat the cost, although unsold tickets are sometimes offset by a supplement from the institution’s member conference.


That cool million split 12 ways suddenly goes very quickly.

[BluBengal07]

so much knowledge of the unknown. so little knowledge of the known. xcoffeex

[WestCoastAggie]

so much knowledge of the unknown. so little knowledge of the known. xcoffeex

Por Que?

[Missingnumber7]

Growing dissatisfaction with playoff revenues among conference administrators was one of the key factors in the move to the bowl game model. A playoff berth often saddled the limited-resource institutions with the added cost of an additional road trip, and even in the rare instance of a MEAC school serving as a host site, the NCAA’s siphoning off of 75 percent of the game’s revenues sometimes left host teams in the red.

Hmmmm...me thinks that he doesn't understand that NCAA pays travel cost for a limited amount of people...or maybe the schools have an issue limiting who gets to go with the team. Either way thats a pretty lame reason.

I get the second half the comment, but really how long will this last if they are paying travel. Don't judge the first two years of the game when the novelty is still great...judge this in the 5th year when people stop coming to a late season home game because they would rather to to Atlanta, or when they decide that its better to sit at home and watch it on TV instead of going to Atlanta for the 2nd or 3rd year in a row.

Don't get me wrong...I don't think this is a terrible thing. And they are playing it at the right time when there is dwindling games on TV and much of the consumer base (FB fans) will watch anything that closely resembles a game on TV.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I dunno, all this carving up of the NCAA money turkey by the MEAC and SWAC makes me think that maybe a reorganization of the MEAC and SWAC might be a better idea:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/04/arguments-over-bowl-payouts-makes-me.html

[WileECoyote06]

Well the main issue with your realignment is that four of the schools you put in the 'bowl' conference were allegedly against the bowl (A&T, NCCU, FAMU, SSU).

[WestCoastAggie]

Any Big South members close to the front office or to their AD's? I got some questions I want to ask you? Just PM me, please! Thanks!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well the main issue with your realignment is that four of the schools you put in the 'bowl' conference were allegedly against the bowl (A&T, NCCU, FAMU, SSU).

Fair enough. Ironically they are the only ones IMO that could potentially bring enough fans to make it somewhat profitable. If they have doubts...

[BluBengal07]

One thing that is being overlooked in the recent convo is that fans are already in the area. This game could pencil in 35-40k in attendance without worry. the last Atlanta Football Classic that was between MEAC and SWAC brought in more thank 41k. it was averaging over 50k before that (during tracking). folks will show up. what helps is that SWAC fans travel and are local.
last year band competition at the Georgia Dome (HBoB) brought it 50k fans. schools didn't bring fans to travel.

[centennial]

One thing that is being overlooked in the recent convo is that fans are already in the area. This game could pencil in 35-40k in attendance without worry. the last Atlanta Football Classic that was between MEAC and SWAC brought in more thank 41k. it was averaging over 50k before that (during tracking). folks will show up. what helps is that SWAC fans travel and are local.
last year band competition at the Georgia Dome (HBoB) brought it 50k fans. schools didn't bring fans to travel.
Let's be clear, even if you can get 40k folks to this bowl(big if), the issue is that this isn't a good deal for the schools in the MEAC. They have also further self segregated themselves from historic white schools along with the SWAC. Winning in the playoffs is a better deal(quarterfinal onwards). Rivalries can be left to the regular season.

[BluBengal07]

Let's be clear, even if you can get 40k folks to this bowl(big if), the issue is that this isn't a good deal for the schools in the MEAC. They have also further self segregated themselves from historic white schools along with the SWAC. Winning in the playoffs is a better deal(quarterfinal onwards). Rivalries can be left to the regular season.

as stated, i was responding to a different point. 40k is my high end for the inaugural game. this will greatly depend on who's in it. however, a possible "big if" for any other FCS conferences tried to succeed. playoffs might be a better deal, it might not be a better deal, but this is not a rivalry situation. we'll see how things turn out for the conferences.

[PAllen]

Let's be clear, even if you can get 40k folks to this bowl(big if), the issue is that this isn't a good deal for the schools in the MEAC. They have also further self segregated themselves from historic white schools along with the SWAC. Winning in the playoffs is a better deal(quarterfinal onwards). Rivalries can be left to the regular season.

In what sense? The schools involved certainly get more exposure playing in this game than they do in a quarterfinal or semi final game. From a financial standpoint, the bowl seems like a clear winner. When's the last time a MEAC team even made it to a quarterfinal anyway?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In what sense? The schools involved certainly get more exposure playing in this game than they do in a quarterfinal or semi final game. From a financial standpoint, the bowl seems like a clear winner. When's the last time a MEAC team even made it to a quarterfinal anyway?

ESPNU vs. ESPN2, mostly. The MEAC/SWAC game does not have a guarantee as to which ESPN the game will be broadcast on, a huge point. If it's on ESPN, that's a big deal. If it's on ESPNU, not so much.

As for being a "financial winner", that depends on who you are. NCA&T, clearly, you could see a huge amount of $. Delaware State, not so much.

[centennial]

In what sense? The schools involved certainly get more exposure playing in this game than they do in a quarterfinal or semi final game. From a financial standpoint, the bowl seems like a clear winner. When's the last time a MEAC team even made it to a quarterfinal anyway?
How many bowl games make profits? Even though by that standard this is a better deal, IMO this is no better than MEAC to rest of FCS/ lower FBS home game where they make 200k-400k. You think one bowl game will actually make a difference? Many FBS schools go to bowl games every year and end up losing money, and don't even get much publicity. I don't expect ESPN to promote this game outside of a few advertisements and a 10 second segment on sports center for the winner.

[BluBengal07]

How many bowl games make profits? Even though by that standard this is a better deal, IMO this is no better than MEAC to rest of FCS/ lower FBS home game where they make 200k-400k. You think one bowl game will actually make a difference? Many FBS schools go to bowl games every year and end up losing money, and don't even get much publicity. I don't expect ESPN to promote this game outside of a few advertisements and a 10 second segment on sports center for the winner.

Thank you for your option.
i don't know much able MEAC numbers, but i don't believe they're pulling numbers like lower FBS with home game profits, and much of FCS. i'm pretty sure the bowl game is planned to be played more than one year, where gains are stacked. it's not the lottery or the SEC. lol; we're not FBS, but yeah, there are many FBS school are not making money with bowl participation(like most of the playoff games in FCS); I don't believe ESPN will be the only outlet that will be marketing this game(the participating school advertisement, the conference advertisement, regional advertisement, local advertisement) I will only see it though social media and a few ESPN segments xdontknowxbut yeah, ESPN might be the only outlet that might reach you though.
thanks for the FCS support. this could be a winner or a loser, but here we go!xbeerchugx

[AshevilleApp2]

Thank you for your option.
i don't know much able MEAC numbers, but i don't believe they're pulling numbers like lower FBS with home game profits, and much of FCS. i'm pretty sure the bowl game is planned to be played more than one year, where gains are stacked. it's not the lottery or the SEC. lol; we're not FBS, but yeah, there are many FBS school are not making money with bowl participation(like most of the playoff games in FCS); I don't believe ESPN will be the only outlet that will be marketing this game(the participating school advertisement, the conference advertisement, regional advertisement, local advertisement) I will only see it though social media and a few ESPN segments xdontknowxbut yeah, ESPN might be the only outlet that might reach you though.
thanks for the FCS support. this could be a winner or a loser, but here we go!xbeerchugx



Best of luck. The only sure thing is change. xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thank you for your option.
i don't know much able MEAC numbers, but i don't believe they're pulling numbers like lower FBS with home game profits, and much of FCS. i'm pretty sure the bowl game is planned to be played more than one year, where gains are stacked. it's not the lottery or the SEC. lol; we're not FBS, but yeah, there are many FBS school are not making money with bowl participation(like most of the playoff games in FCS); I don't believe ESPN will be the only outlet that will be marketing this game(the participating school advertisement, the conference advertisement, regional advertisement, local advertisement) I will only see it though social media and a few ESPN segments xdontknowxbut yeah, ESPN might be the only outlet that might reach you though.
thanks for the FCS support. this could be a winner or a loser, but here we go!xbeerchugx

Two years ago NCAT (13,574) was in the top tier of FCS in terms of attendance, with South Carolina State (11,880) and FAMU (11,170) not far behind. But then there's Delaware State (2,110), Howard (3,809), and Savannah State (3,804) in the same conference. It's not hard to see FAMU/Southern as a big deal in Atlanta, but what about MVSU/Delaware State?

It's hard to say what "profits" are in terms of home games, but it seems fair to say FAMU and NCAT pull in more revenue for home games than Delaware State. But it's also near-certain that these revenues do not outpace the costs of running a football program. And you can't assume you're going to be in this championship game every year, i.e. you can't put it in your August budget that you're going to get 3/4 of a million $ from the title game. You can put two FBS checks at $200K in there, however, assuming you've scheduled those games.

[GAD]

Thank you for your option.
i don't know much able MEAC numbers, but i don't believe they're pulling numbers like lower FBS with home game profits, and much of FCS. i'm pretty sure the bowl game is planned to be played more than one year, where gains are stacked. it's not the lottery or the SEC. lol; we're not FBS, but yeah, there are many FBS school are not making money with bowl participation(like most of the playoff games in FCS); I don't believe ESPN will be the only outlet that will be marketing this game(the participating school advertisement, the conference advertisement, regional advertisement, local advertisement) I will only see it though social media and a few ESPN segments xdontknowxbut yeah, ESPN might be the only outlet that might reach you though.
thanks for the FCS support. this could be a winner or a loser, but here we go!xbeerchugx
The thing is we don't need ESPN to promote this game, they don't promote Bama State vs. AAMU, FAMU vs. BCU, Southern vs. Grambling, Jackson State vs Alcorn, Tenn. State vs Jackson State etc. etc. and this are the best drawing games in FCS easily.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you're hoping ESPN will do any promotion for you aside from broadcasting the game, take it from me, expect to be disappointed.

[BluBengal07]

Two years ago NCAT (13,574) was in the top tier of FCS in terms of attendance, with South Carolina State (11,880) and FAMU (11,170) not far behind. But then there's Delaware State (2,110), Howard (3,809), and Savannah State (3,804) in the same conference. It's not hard to see FAMU/Southern as a big deal in Atlanta, but what about MVSU/Delaware State?

It's hard to say what "profits" are in terms of home games, but it seems fair to say FAMU and NCAT pull in more revenue for home games than Delaware State. But it's also near-certain that these revenues do not outpace the costs of running a football program. And you can't assume you're going to be in this championship game every year, i.e. you can't put it in your August budget that you're going to get 3/4 of a million $ from the title game. You can put two FBS checks at $200K in there, however, assuming you've scheduled those games.

ok, i see your concern, but let's look a the "short term" reality, MVSU/Delaware State will not be in 2015's game and a good chance not the 2016 and a few others. LOL, not hating, just saying.

[walliver]

If you're hoping ESPN will do any promotion for you aside from broadcasting the game, take it from me, expect to be disappointed.

ESPN promotion is vastly over-rated IMHO. They can promote the New Orleans Bowl all they want and nothing happens. Football junkies with nothing else to do will watch it, but the game won't win it's time slot.

This game is a niche product, appealing primarily to African-Americans who follow HBCU football. The game will be attended by the same group of people who attend the "classics". Heavy promotion by ESPN won't bring in new fans, and lack of promotion by ESPN won't cause fans who care to keep away.

This game will likely out-draw the FCS Championship game at the gate. It will get a nicer time slot and have higher TV ratings also. We have gone through a period where the FCS championship has sold tickets well, but that has not always been the case (in 1986 GSU played Arkansas State in front of 4419 fans in Tacoma, Washington). Prior to ASU's run a decade ago, there were thousands of empty seats in Chattanooga. With ASU within a reasonable drive of Boone (and Charlotte) attendance was up. The games in Frisco have benefitted from hosting Texas teams, and of course the folks from South Canada State travelling to somewhere warm. A final between two smaller or more distant schools will likely not fill the stands (and have thousands of NDSU fans dumping their tickets on StubHub).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Football_Championship

[Missingnumber7]

ESPN promotion is vastly over-rated IMHO. They can promote the New Orleans Bowl all they want and nothing happens. Football junkies with nothing else to do will watch it, but the game won't win it's time slot.

This game is a niche product, appealing primarily to African-Americans who follow HBCU football. The game will be attended by the same group of people who attend the "classics". Heavy promotion by ESPN won't bring in new fans, and lack of promotion by ESPN won't cause fans who care to keep away.

This game will likely out-draw the FCS Championship game at the gate. It will get a nicer time slot and have higher TV ratings also. We have gone through a period where the FCS championship has sold tickets well, but that has not always been the case (in 1986 GSU played Arkansas State in front of 4419 fans in Tacoma, Washington). Prior to ASU's run a decade ago, there were thousands of empty seats in Chattanooga. With ASU within a reasonable drive of Boone (and Charlotte) attendance was up. The games in Frisco have benefitted from hosting Texas teams, and of course the folks from South Canada State travelling to somewhere warm. A final between two smaller or more distant schools will likely not fill the stands (and have thousands of NDSU fans dumping their tickets on StubHub).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Football_Championship

You really can't compare having a game in an NFL stadium to the 20K seat Frisco stadium. And then on top of it matching it with a set, small group of possibilities of teams. If you said that the FCS Championship game would be the winners of CAA/MVFC/Big Sky/Southland every year and knew that it would be one of two conferences you would have more people attend.

Like was said before...bring one non known commodity or poor drawing team and this is going to be a lot less of a good idea than it seemed at the begining.

This is great for the teams involved...but it has little if anything to do with FCS football other than both conferences admitting that they don't have the means to compete with the top tier of the FCS. And for the most part the product on the field will show. Just my opinion.

[WileECoyote06]

The thing is we don't need ESPN to promote this game, they don't promote Bama State vs. AAMU, FAMU vs. BCU, Southern vs. Grambling, Jackson State vs Alcorn, Tenn. State vs Jackson State etc. etc. and this are the best drawing games in FCS easily.

Those are all longstanding rivalries between schools. They are going to get good attendance either way. This game may match-up teams with little more in common than the fact they are HBCUs. So they're praying for local support and a dream match-up; at least for the first three or four games. Or they're dependent on the SWAC fan base to travel, because outside of FAMU/SCSU/A&T and to a lesser extent Howard there is little indication that any another MEAC school will get you 10K+ fans in the dome.

[BluBengal07]

You really can't compare having a game in an NFL stadium to the 20K seat Frisco stadium. And then on top of it matching it with a set, small group of possibilities of teams. If you said that the FCS Championship game would be the winners of CAA/MVFC/Big Sky/Southland every year and knew that it would be one of two conferences you would have more people attend.

Like was said before...bring one non known commodity or poor drawing team and this is going to be a lot less of a good idea than it seemed at the begining.

This is great for the teams involved...but it has little if anything to do with FCS football other than both conferences admitting that they don't have the means to compete with the top tier of the FCS. And for the most part the product on the field will show. Just my opinion.

but all the other teams have the means to compete. LMAO, ok.

good thing you point this out.... if the FCS Champion is of the two best football programs that FCS has to offer, why is it continuously hosted in unknown city with a smedium stadium? Can't get into NRG Statium, which is up the highway in Houston? if there is a demand, feed the demand, since it's such a large population of conferences (wait, that's where the SWAC Champion is located)

[centennial]

but all the other teams have the means to compete. LMAO, ok.

good thing you point this out.... if the FCS Champion is of the two best football programs that FCS has to offer, why is it continuously hosted in unknown city with a smedium stadium? Can't get into NRG Statium, which is up the highway in Houston? if there is a demand, feed the demand, since it's such a large population of conferences (wait, that's where the SWAC Champion is located)
This is exactly why... They are the best, not the biggest or the ones with most fans. The demand only stems if there are bigger schools with fan interest in the mix like JMU, Montana, NDSU etc. What happens when 2 smaller fan base schools land into the FCS finals? 22k with SRO is a good tradeoff to make sure that the stadium doesn't look empty in such cases. Otherwise we would be in the same situation as the Celebration Bowl hoping that a school like Grambling or FAMU make it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The larger point is this: do you want the postseason to crown a championship for the best team in the subdivision, or do you want the postseason to be a moneymaking event? The FCS Championship is there to crown a champion, with enough revenues to cover the costs of going there. The Celebration Bowl is an attempt to be a moneymaking event, either small (member of the MEAC/SWAC) or larger (the conference champions).

If Lehigh were to make it to the FCSNCG, I know for a fact the athletic department wouldn't be relying on that game to directly make the school money. They might get more donations, a banner to hang, more interest in the program with both alumni and the local area. They'd also like the extra cost/inconvenience covered, too. But they wouldn't be relying on that game to balance the books. This is why Lehigh is very happy to compete for the FCSNCG.

[Herder]

Seriously? You people think that the vast majority of MEAC/SWAC schools give a crap whether the FCS "elite" want to visit for a home game? News flash, most of the fan bases and boosters in all of FCS combined don't give a crap whether or not NDSU wants to come for a visit. FCS is all about small school rivalries and teams that your fanbase has heard of before. That usually comes from having a historical tie. in most HBCU cases, that's other HBCUs. Alabama A&M gets more out of playing Tuskegee than they ever would out of playing Delaware or Montana. I likeFCS football, but you guys who think you're the Ohio State, Alabama, or LSU of this subdivision need to realize that that type of prestige doesn't translate at this level no matter how good of a program you have.

What a BS brand of football this is turning out to be. Everyone playing their weak neighbors and worrying more about bands than quality of football. Georgia Southern, App State . . . come back or take us with you! It's a race to the bottom (well a walk, a race would actually be competitive, and we can't have that) led by the MEAC/SWAC! Maybe they could just end the game in the 3rd quarter so no one gets hurt or has to lose. just shake hands coming out of the tunnel after a good halftime show, and the fans can head back outside to the parking lot for another hot dog. Decent FCS conferences cannot separate themselves fast enough from this trash level of football, celebration games, and this mentality.

[Missingnumber7]

but all the other teams have the means to compete. LMAO, ok.

good thing you point this out.... if the FCS Champion is of the two best football programs that FCS has to offer, why is it continuously hosted in unknown city with a smedium stadium? Can't get into NRG Statium, which is up the highway in Houston? if there is a demand, feed the demand, since it's such a large population of conferences (wait, that's where the SWAC Champion is located)

You can't compete for the championship at the level you are playing so essentially you are taking your ball and going home.

Take the bands away and lets see who comes to watch that football.

[BluBengal07]

You can't compete for the championship at the level you are playing so essentially you are taking your ball and going home.

Take the bands away and lets see who comes to watch that football.

and that's a problem, there is not a lot of similar level FCS games put into place to prove this point. that is a leadership problem; problem of don't want to or can't. with a mindset of the upper FCS, it's very easy to have a bias option.
if the bands are taken away, it will just be another FCS game folks are sitting through, with the same numbers in the stands as a general FCS game. this has been proven.

[AggieManiac704]

sigh.....

[number1]

I have to ask the non-SWAC and MEAC fans posting in here this question. Why are you so worried about this decision. If the SWAC and MEAC want to participate in this bowl game, so be it. Why nitpick and complain about something that really doesn't affect any of your schools? If a school doesn't want to participate in the playoffs in favor of a bowl game, why do you see it necessary to try and criticize and degrade the schools that make that decision? They are ultimately making the decisions based on what appeals most to MAJORITY of their fan base and alumni, and not to appease folks that have nothing to do with our schools.

[PAllen]

I have to ask the non-SWAC and MEAC fans posting in here this question. Why are you so worried about this decision. If the SWAC and MEAC want to participate in this bowl game, so be it. Why nitpick and complain about something that really doesn't affect any of your schools? If a school doesn't want to participate in the playoffs in favor of a bowl game, why do you see it necessary to try and criticize and degrade the schools that make that decision? They are ultimately making the decisions based on what appeals most to MAJORITY of their fan base and alumni, and not to appease folks that have nothing to do with our schools.

Partly because many of us want to see more participation in the playoffs, not less. But mostly because it threatens the little bubble many are comfortable with in the FCS playoffs. I would rather see the SWAC and MEAC as full participants in the subdivision championship along with the Ivy League, but I can't really blame them when there is the chance at something like this instead of getting sent to somewhere none of their fans have heard of or giving away half of that year's budget in order to host a game against said team that no one has ever heard of.

[BluBengal07]

But then there is a scab of individuals, faithfuls here, that present such hate and ill feeling against MEAC and SWAC. Even during the time of participation, there was rare occurrences of positive remarks of their participation, and mostly negative. Folks complain when they're there, they complain when they aren't.
Sometimes, hate is an indicator of fear.

[BisonFan02]

I have to ask the non-SWAC and MEAC fans posting in here this question. Why are you so worried about this decision. If the SWAC and MEAC want to participate in this bowl game, so be it. Why nitpick and complain about something that really doesn't affect any of your schools? If a school doesn't want to participate in the playoffs in favor of a bowl game, why do you see it necessary to try and criticize and degrade the schools that make that decision? They are ultimately making the decisions based on what appeals most to MAJORITY of their fan base and alumni, and not to appease folks that have nothing to do with our schools.

Genuinely...couldn't really care less what the SWAC/MEAC does in regards to bowls/classics...I would just rather them stop calling it FCS football..similar to my feelings about non scholly Pioneer football. Other than wanting to play DI in non-football sports, there is zero reason these programs should be included in the FCS ranks.

[Bisonoline]

But then there is a scab of individuals, faithfuls here, that present such hate and ill feeling against MEAC and SWAC. Even during the time of participation, there was rare occurrences of positive remarks of their participation, and mostly negative. Folks complain when they're there, they complain when they aren't.
Sometimes, hate is an indicator of fear.

You really didn't post that??????

[Missingnumber7]

I have to ask the non-SWAC and MEAC fans posting in here this question. Why are you so worried about this decision. If the SWAC and MEAC want to participate in this bowl game, so be it. Why nitpick and complain about something that really doesn't affect any of your schools? If a school doesn't want to participate in the playoffs in favor of a bowl game, why do you see it necessary to try and criticize and degrade the schools that make that decision? They are ultimately making the decisions based on what appeals most to MAJORITY of their fan base and alumni, and not to appease folks that have nothing to do with our schools.

Then why play NCAA FCS football? Why not run off on your own? Honestly I have no issue with the game great for you guys another opportunity to share a cultural experience with the nation. But doing it in the name of selling it as a great football game I don't really see it as that. If you want to participate in a bowl game there is a completely separate division for that. You participate in the Football Championship Subdivision. Just my opinion.

[number1]

But then there is a scab of individuals, faithfuls here, that present such hate and ill feeling against MEAC and SWAC. Even during the time of participation, there was rare occurrences of positive remarks of their participation, and mostly negative. Folks complain when they're there, they complain when they aren't.
Sometimes, hate is an indicator of fear.

"Humanity has always feared that which is different"

- Magneto (X-Men Days of Future Past)

[number1]

Then why play NCAA FCS football? Why not run off on your own? Honestly I have no issue with the game great for you guys another opportunity to share a cultural experience with the nation. But doing it in the name of selling it as a great football game I don't really see it as that. If you want to participate in a bowl game there is a completely separate division for that. You participate in the Football Championship Subdivision. Just my opinion.
Thank you for your opinion, but we will continue playing D-I FCS football and supporting our championship game and newly formed bowl game. This can only be good news for all of the FCS. Any increase in possible exposure for fellow FCS teams should be celebrated on here whether it involves the playoffs or not. Who knows what future opportunities this could possibly lead to down the road?

[BisonFan02]

Thank you for your opinion, but we will continue playing D-I FCS football and supporting our championship game and newly formed bowl game. This can only be good news for all of the FCS. Any increase in possible exposure for fellow FCS teams should be celebrated on here whether it involves the playoffs or not. Who knows what future opportunities this could possibly lead to down the road?

See bold. Nothing fellow about the SWAC/MEAC championships and the FCS playoff teams other than you guys count as a DI win....that's all.

[clenz]

Thank you for your opinion, but we will continue playing D-I FCS football and supporting our championship game and newly formed bowl game. This can only be good news for all of the FCS. Any increase in possible exposure for fellow FCS teams should be celebrated on here whether it involves the playoffs or not. Who knows what future opportunities this could possibly lead to down the road?
I would prefer that the quality of play from the SWAC and MEAC don't represent the FCS to the general public, that's been part of the issue the past few years when it comes to fighting the image that the FCS isn't very good.

The tape delayed MEAC games on ESPN, or even the live games, are just....just....well....how do I say this nicely?


It's not good. The MEAC and the SWAC are poor representations of the quality of football played at the FCS level.

Throw on top of that Jay Williams being the "voice" of the FCS and we've got a perfect storm of garbage FCS being broadcast as top level FCS quality.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have to ask the non-SWAC and MEAC fans posting in here this question. Why are you so worried about this decision. If the SWAC and MEAC want to participate in this bowl game, so be it. Why nitpick and complain about something that really doesn't affect any of your schools? If a school doesn't want to participate in the playoffs in favor of a bowl game, why do you see it necessary to try and criticize and degrade the schools that make that decision? They are ultimately making the decisions based on what appeals most to MAJORITY of their fan base and alumni, and not to appease folks that have nothing to do with our schools.

FCS is a community. By electing not to play in the playoffs, you're purposely separating yourselves from that community. You say you want to be included in the community, but then you make a financial decision (I suppose) and elect not to participate, so how can't any other school's fans, who are playing in the FCS community, be a bit irked by it? If you want to say you're a participant in the community, participate in their championship!

Incidentally, this is the exact same thing that FCS folks have been saying about the Ivy League since the dawn of the subdivision, so don't think you're singled out.

[WileECoyote06]

sigh.....

Pretty much.

[Herder]

But then there is a scab of individuals, faithfuls here, that present such hate and ill feeling against MEAC and SWAC. Even during the time of participation, there was rare occurrences of positive remarks of their participation, and mostly negative. Folks complain when they're there, they complain when they aren't.
Sometimes, hate is an indicator of fear.


Participation by the MEAC/SWAC/Ivy would help the FCS championship become more meaningful, the separatist mentality of the SWAC/MEAC is destructive. That is my issue. If I was the ncaa chair for the FCS championship, I would request that the SWAC/MEAC play their championship game in early December, and slot the champion into the playoffs, even it meant a 1st round bye. Inclusion is good for everyone.

Heck, pair the SWAC champion vs. the MEAC champion every year in round 1 of the playoffs. That could be your Celebration game, with a specific date in the books 12 months in advance. Heck, one of the leagues would even get a playoff win every year. That would help recruiting for those leagues.

Do something, it's 2015 . . . end segregation. Hate & Fear? . . . Get over yourself. You have chosen the path of exclusion, not the rest of the FCS.

[clenz]

FCS is a community. By electing not to play in the playoffs, you're purposely separating yourselves from that community. You say you want to be included in the community, but then you make a financial decision (I suppose) and elect not to participate, so how can't any other school's fans, who are playing in the FCS community, be a bit irked by it? If you want to say you're a participant in the community, participate in their championship!

Incidentally, this is the exact same thing that FCS folks have been saying about the Ivy League since the dawn of the subdivision, so don't think you're singled out.
This is exactly my thoughts as well. I think I've said it on this thread, or another one. I feel the same way about the SWAC.

It's why when I turn in my AGS ballot I have not included SWAC (not that any SWAC team has been close to getting votes) or Ivy teams (though I'm debating changing my Ivy policy for this coming season with some regulations in place). The MEAC has been added to my list. I vote on playoff conferences. The way the SWAC and Ivy have separated themselves from the FCS has led me to not believe they would be top 25 teams. I've watched the MEAC get rankings after rankings after rankings and bid after bid after bid into the playoffs only to be proven they are inferior every single time in the playoffs.

The MEAC/SWAC/Ivy can do what they want to separate themselves, but I also feel that in doing so they lose every right to bitch about being treated as separates

[kdinva]

Inclusion is good for everyone.......Heck, pair the SWAC champion vs. the MEAC champion every year in round 1 of the playoffs.

That is a fine idea......but would the SWAC get rid of their Champ. game, or move it to the 3rd Saturday in November? I am guessing "no" to the idea.

[Missingnumber7]

If you start pairing conference champs then you might as well just regionalize like D2. And when you start regionalizing your start limiting your options.

[clenz]

If you start pairing conference champs then you might as well just regionalize like D2.
Why?

They want this game so they get paired. Not going to happen across the board

[Missingnumber7]

Was just trying to point out how ridiculous guarenteeing pairing two conferences the conference their first round opponent would be from is.

[centennial]

Pairing them up and putting the Celebration Bowl winner in the FCS 2nd round is a solid idea. The problem is two fold, perception and pragmatism; neither the SWAC, MEAC, or the NCAA are pragmatic enough for this. Secondly, perception- when the HBCU champion gets blasted by the 4th place MVFC, CAA teams.

[WileECoyote06]

The FCS playoffs are already highly regionalized.

[Missingnumber7]

The FCS playoffs are already highly regionalized.

No where near how D2 is regionalized.

[PAllen]

Better to be regionalized than marginalized.

[clenz]

No where near how D2 is regionalized.
It's not regionalizing because it's not a "playoff" game between the SWAC/MEAC in this case.

The winner gets in to the playoffs. I know the FCS has a thing against conference title games but this is something that is a little different

[Missingnumber7]

It's not regionalizing because it's not a "playoff" game between the SWAC/MEAC in this case.

The winner gets in to the playoffs. I know the FCS has a thing against conference title games but this is something that is a little different

Then allow every conference to play a championship game...not that every conference would.

Like I said before this is a we are taking our ball and going home type of thing. I would be interested to see who approached who to start this, because I'm willing to bet it wasn't ESPN approaching the conferences.

[clenz]

Then allow every conference to play a championship game...not that every conference would.

Like I said before this is a we are taking our ball and going home type of thing. I would be interested to see who approached who to start this, because I'm willing to bet it wasn't ESPN approaching the conferences.
Listen, I'm all for keeping them out and not allowing a chance at an at large berth.

You seem rather upset that the MEAC and SWAC are doing they see as beneficial for them and don't give a damn how you're school feels about it. Get over it.

[Missingnumber7]

Listen, I'm all for keeping them out and not allowing a chance at an at large berth.

You seem rather upset that the MEAC and SWAC are doing they see as beneficial for them and don't give a damn how you're school feels about it. Get over it.

Upset that they are playing a game that means absolutely nothing...nah. Good for them, hope they line their pockets with money.

I'm more upset that the brand of football they play is going to get on the ESPN family, yet the MVFC which has great games all season long fights to be on even ESPN3. And thats why the who approached whom thing is interesting to me.

And as far as the keeping them out of the playoffs...its good for the Big Sky/MVFC/CAA/Southland as they will more than likely be the conferences that grab that extra at large.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I can't be the only one who potentially sees this as a gateway to eventually reclassifying both the MEAC and SWAC to the D-II level, right?

That guaranteed money would look a lot better in Division II, with fewer sports to worry about and lower overall costs. And the ADs and conference people shouldn't care because their paychecks will remain the same with ESPN. Furthermore, whether D-I or D-II, the game will probably pull in the same ratings and same audience, so for ESPN it's probably not a dealbreaker if they're D-I or D-II.

[PAllen]

I can't be the only one who potentially sees this as a gateway to eventually reclassifying both the MEAC and SWAC to the D-II level, right?

That guaranteed money would look a lot better in Division II, with fewer sports to worry about and lower overall costs. And the ADs and conference people shouldn't care because their paychecks will remain the same with ESPN. Furthermore, whether D-I or D-II, the game will probably pull in the same ratings and same audience, so for ESPN it's probably not a dealbreaker if they're D-I or D-II.

Actually, it probably would be a deal breaker (at least for flagship coverage) if they drop to D-II. Why would anybody even want that to happen anyway? All this not much money talk is hilarious to me. How much is that guaranteed money for making the playoffs again? How much does the rest of the conference get? Yeah, this may not be a fantastic deal for all the MEAC and SWAC teams, but it sure beats the hell out of what the FCS playoffs offer. They get paid for a shot at greater exposure than the playoffs offer. If you don't like it, why don't you come up with ideas for making the FCS playoffs better rather than constantly coming down on folks who found and chose a different path?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Actually, it probably would be a deal breaker (at least for flagship coverage) if they drop to D-II. Why would anybody even want that to happen anyway? All this not much money talk is hilarious to me. How much is that guaranteed money for making the playoffs again? How much does the rest of the conference get? Yeah, this may not be a fantastic deal for all the MEAC and SWAC teams, but it sure beats the hell out of what the FCS playoffs offer. They get paid for a shot at greater exposure than the playoffs offer. If you don't like it, why don't you come up with ideas for making the FCS playoffs better rather than constantly coming down on folks who found and chose a different path?

You mean like the time I proposed that the powers that run FCS shop around for a better TV deal so that Fox Sports 1, NBC Sports Network or CBS Sports Network televise more games? The time when I said, by shopping it to a different network you'd guarantee that it would get better promotion than it would on ESPN, who have proven time and again that they don't promote it the way they should? That time?

You're also falling into the trap that the postseason HAS to be a moneymaking operation rather than a cost-covering operation. Judge the playoffs as a cost-covering operation, and then it comes out very well. There hasn't been any team put into the poorhouse by FCS playoff participation. And yes, that includes the MEAC.

[clenz]

Actually, it probably would be a deal breaker (at least for flagship coverage) if they drop to D-II. Why would anybody even want that to happen anyway? All this not much money talk is hilarious to me. How much is that guaranteed money for making the playoffs again? How much does the rest of the conference get? Yeah, this may not be a fantastic deal for all the MEAC and SWAC teams, but it sure beats the hell out of what the FCS playoffs offer. They get paid for a shot at greater exposure than the playoffs offer. If you don't like it, why don't you come up with ideas for making the FCS playoffs better rather than constantly coming down on folks who found and chose a different path?
If you can't make money on the playoffs you aren't doing it right.

[WileECoyote06]

Then allow every conference to play a championship game...not that every conference would.

Like I said before this is a we are taking our ball and going home type of thing. I would be interested to see who approached who to start this, because I'm willing to bet it wasn't ESPN approaching the conferences.

You'd probably lose money then. ESPN has had this offer on the table for a few years now. The last group of MEAC presidents didn't desire to give up the post-season bid. Only a few of those presidents/chancellors remain.

[number1]

FCS is a community. By electing not to play in the playoffs, you're purposely separating yourselves from that community. You say you want to be included in the community, but then you make a financial decision (I suppose) and elect not to participate, so how can't any other school's fans, who are playing in the FCS community, be a bit irked by it? If you want to say you're a participant in the community, participate in their championship!

Incidentally, this is the exact same thing that FCS folks have been saying about the Ivy League since the dawn of the subdivision, so don't think you're singled out.

I don't want to start an argument, but a simple task as pushing the playoffs back one week might have made a huge difference prior to the start of the SWAC Championship game. Once that conference title game started, there was no way the SWAC was going to look back. Especially when it started with the SWAC's dream matchup for a title game.(SU vs. Jackson State)

I already know the responses, " Who are we to demand the NCAA to push back games 1 week just for us" and so on.........but that would have been a huge obstacle eliminated.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't want to start an argument, but if the NCAA wanted our participation, a simple task as pushing the playoffs back one week might have made a huge difference prior to the start of the SWAC Championship game. Once that conference title game started, there was no way the SWAC was going to look back. Especially when it started with the SWAC's dream matchup for a title game.(SU vs. Jackson State)

Here's how it all went down:


DATE: DEC. 1, 1998

SWAC VOTES TO CONSIDER FOOTBALL TITLE GAME


BILOXI, Miss. -- The athletics directors here at the Southwestern Athletic Conference's annual Winter Meetings on Tuesday voted to consider holding a football championship game when divisional play starts in the league next fall.


By a unanimous vote, the athletics directors agreed to the championship game concept with the understanding that league commissioner Rudy Washington would have to lobby the NCAA to permit such a contest. If it's implemented, the SWAC title game would be played the second week in December and the winner would advance to the McDonald's Heritage Bowl to play a representative from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference.


"A SWAC championship game in football would have tremendous financial ramifications," said Washington. "We're excited about this idea and we think with the interest that already exists in football in the SWAC, a championship game would be enormous."


With Alabama A&M University expected to be eligible to compete for SWAC championships after July 1, 1999, the list of teams competing for various championships will increase to 10 teams. Consequently, all of the league's sports will be broken into divisions starting next fall. The new Eastern Division will consist of Alabama A&M, Alabama State, Alcorn State, Jackson State and Mississippi Valley State. The Western Division will be comprised of Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Grambling State, Prairie View A&M, Southern-Baton Rouge and Texas Southern.


"I'm looking forward to this new concept," said Mississippi Valley State athletics director Chuck Prophet, who serves as chairman of the SWAC Athletics Directors Committee. "The fact that this proposal passed unanimously indicates the tremendous interest that'll be generated in the championship game."

http://www.mindspring.com/~asalh/swac-8.html

A salient point here: The SWAC presidents themselves determined the date of the game, which was the second week in December. At the time, that put the game during what was then the FCS semifinals. In other words, once the SWAC presidents themselves decided that it was to be then, there was never any thought as to integrating it into the FCS playoffs in any way shape or form.

[number1]

Upset that they are playing a game that means absolutely nothing...nah. Good for them, hope they line their pockets with money.

I'm more upset that the brand of football they play is going to get on the ESPN family, yet the MVFC which has great games all season long fights to be on even ESPN3. And thats why the who approached whom thing is interesting to me.

And as far as the keeping them out of the playoffs...its good for the Big Sky/MVFC/CAA/Southland as they will more than likely be the conferences that grab that extra at large.

You know that sounds like jealousy right? I am guessing ESPN is interested in the culture and atmosphere these games provide and feel they are exposing the country to a different and unique environment that isn't present in any of the big FBS games they broadcast. And yes, it's more than just the bands. Southern has 7,000 students but has always been in the Top 25 in FCS attendance, and is involved in a number of the top attended games including outdrawing some FBS schools. You have Alcorn and Southern meet in the SWAC Championship Game each with 7,000 and fewer students, yet had 36,000 in attendance at the game(and it was a great event) which was more than all of the Group of 5 championship games and the Pac-12 Championship game and was far better than a good deal of bowl games. When you see those numbers, you have to be interested in how it's possible.

The quality of play has been getting better each season in the SWAC thanks to facility upgrades and better coaches being hired by our schools. I know my team is just starting to get back on its feet after having a string of our worst seasons in school history.

[number1]

Here's how it all went down:



http://www.mindspring.com/~asalh/swac-8.html

A salient point here: The SWAC presidents themselves determined the date of the game, which was the second week in December. At the time, that put the game during what was then the FCS semifinals. In other words, once the SWAC presidents themselves decided that it was to be then, there was never any thought as to integrating it into the FCS playoffs in any way shape or form.
I said prior to the creation of the SWAC Championship Game. Quite a few times in the 90s, the SWAC sent its runner-up to the playoffs because the champion was playing in the Bayou Classic which is the same weekend as the start of the playoffs. Think about this, 5 of the first 6 SWAC Championship Games were won by either Southern or Grambling, and the one they didn't win was a close loss by Southern. So realistically we would have had 5-6 more seasons of sending our runner-up and in some instances our 3rd best team to the playoffs due to that conflict. Looking at that, of course the championship game seemed like a great venture for the league. Fan interest has been pretty solid through the years for the game, including years where you didn't have the ideal matchups.

[PAllen]

You mean like the time I proposed that the powers that run FCS shop around for a better TV deal so that Fox Sports 1, NBC Sports Network or CBS Sports Network televise more games? The time when I said, by shopping it to a different network you'd guarantee that it would get better promotion than it would on ESPN, who have proven time and again that they don't promote it the way they should? That time?

You're also falling into the trap that the postseason HAS to be a moneymaking operation rather than a cost-covering operation. Judge the playoffs as a cost-covering operation, and then it comes out very well. There hasn't been any team put into the poorhouse by FCS playoff participation. And yes, that includes the MEAC.

Actually, I meant suggestions that have a chance of actually happening. The FCS playoffs are sold to ESPN as part of the championship package rights that include wrestling, etc. Until stadiums start getting packed in and viewership gets a bit better, nobody's going to pay for the rights to broadcast the FCS playoffs. Most of the early round games would have trouble competing with infomercials for viewership.

[WestCoastAggie]

Upset that they are playing a game that means absolutely nothing...nah. Good for them, hope they line their pockets with money.

I'm more upset that the brand of football they play is going to get on the ESPN family, yet the MVFC which has great games all season long fights to be on even ESPN3. And thats why the who approached whom thing is interesting to me.

And as far as the keeping them out of the playoffs...its good for the Big Sky/MVFC/CAA/Southland as they will more than likely be the conferences that grab that extra at large.

ESPN already brings many eyeballs of the demographic that FCS targets. FBS football corners the TV market and the 18 - 35 White Male & 25 - 54 White Male demographics.

HBCU Football is still a unique brand of sport that generates interest from a market that ESPN wants to get: Black Families and Black Women. FCS Football only garners a small fraction of the 18 - 34 & 25 - 54 White Male Demos.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I said prior to the creation of the SWAC Championship Game. Quite a few times in the 90s, the SWAC sent its runner-up to the playoffs because the champion was playing in the Bayou Classic which is the same weekend as the start of the playoffs. Think about this, 5 of the first 6 SWAC Championship Games were won by either Southern or Grambling, and the one they didn't win was a close loss by Southern. So realistically we would have had 5-6 more seasons of sending our runner-up and in some instances our 3rd best team to the playoffs due to that conflict. Looking at that, of course the championship game seemed like a great venture for the league. Fan interest has been pretty solid through the years for the game, including years where you didn't have the ideal matchups.

Fair enough. Ironically a 24 team playoff would have suited the SWAC better back then, because then the SWAC champ, if it involved Alabama State, Grambling or Southern, could have been just inserted after the 1st round - maybe something could have been worked out. I still continue to believe, if the SWAC and MEAC abandoned the SCG and the Celebration Bowl concepts, the SWAC and MEAC could still have Thanksgiving games and have something be able to be worked out for playoff participation. I don't think people have a problem with the Bayou Classic and Turkey Day classics - just the SCG and Heritage Bowl that are games that obviously are not conducive to playoff participation.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Actually, I meant suggestions that have a chance of actually happening. The FCS playoffs are sold to ESPN as part of the championship package rights that include wrestling, etc. Until stadiums start getting packed in and viewership gets a bit better, nobody's going to pay for the rights to broadcast the FCS playoffs. Most of the early round games would have trouble competing with infomercials for viewership.

We will never know if anyone will pay for the rights to the FCS playoffs because IMO nobody has seriously tried to shop the rights to broadcast them. And for "stadiums getting packed in", have you actually watched the game in Frisco? If they weren't three sellouts, they were damned close.

Semifinal attendance/viewership is like a box of chocolates. If it's in Montana, Eastern Washington, NDSU, they'll be packed houses. At UNH, Villanova, not so much.

[Missingnumber7]

ESPN already brings many eyeballs of the demographic that FCS targets. FBS football corners the TV market and the 18 - 35 White Male & 25 - 54 White Male demographics.

HBCU Football is still a unique brand of sport that generates interest from a market that ESPN wants to get: Black Families and Black Women. FCS Football only garners a small fraction of the 18 - 34 & 25 - 54 White Male Demos.

Never thought about it from that angle.

[centennial]

Actually, I meant suggestions that have a chance of actually happening. The FCS playoffs are sold to ESPN as part of the championship package rights that include wrestling, etc. Until stadiums start getting packed in and viewership gets a bit better, nobody's going to pay for the rights to broadcast the FCS playoffs. Most of the early round games would have trouble competing with infomercials for viewership.
I am going to argue that outside of ESPN 3 games that help hardcore fans watch more games, ESPN is bad for the FCS. ESPN wants a specific narrative where the P5 schools are gods, and the rest are nobodies. Imagine a deal with CBS, NBC or ABC which actually gets promoted in the correct way. ESPN pays $500 million a year for CFP. Even if we could get 1/10th of that it would greatly benefit all schools and NCAA. There are two problems here, NCAA has inept leadership that causes them to sell bulk right, they make most of their money from the Big Dance. Additionally, ESPN might drop ESPN 3 games if this happens.

This makes me question the leadership at ESPN as well, they keep mentioning FBS games during FCS games, talk a LOT about transfers playing in the games. Perhaps it is in ESPN's interest to promote the FCS, it gets them more viewership, and the whole game is about how many people watch their networks.

[WestCoastAggie]

I am going to argue that outside of ESPN 3 games that help hardcore fans watch more games, ESPN is bad for the FCS. ESPN wants a specific narrative where the P5 schools are gods, and the rest are nobodies. Imagine a deal with CBS, NBC or ABC which actually gets promoted in the correct way. ESPN pays $500 million a year for CFP. Even if we could get 1/10th of that it would greatly benefit all schools and NCAA. There are two problems here, NCAA has inept leadership that causes them to sell bulk right, they make most of their money from the Big Dance. Additionally, ESPN might drop ESPN 3 games if this happens.

This makes me question the leadership at ESPN as well, they keep mentioning FBS games during FCS games, talk a LOT about transfers playing in the games. Perhaps it is in ESPN's interest to promote the FCS, it gets them more viewership, and the whole game is about how many people watch their networks.

There is a major ceiling for FCS in terms of television. White men are already being drawn into ESPN and other networks by FBS Football. It's my understanding that ESPN makes no money off of advertising from an FCS game outside of the MEAC/SWAC contract they have. If we want FCS Football to generate money for networks, it will have to be at the expense of FBS games, which will be very difficult to do.

[PAllen]

We will never know if anyone will pay for the rights to the FCS playoffs because IMO nobody has seriously tried to shop the rights to broadcast them. And for "stadiums getting packed in", have you actually watched the game in Frisco? If they weren't three sellouts, they were damned close.

Semifinal attendance/viewership is like a box of chocolates. If it's in Montana, Eastern Washington, NDSU, they'll be packed houses. At UNH, Villanova, not so much.

Nobody's going to pay for the rights to televise something that they can't sell ads for. ESPN doesn't make money on the ad sales for the FCS Championship. Do you really think that Fox, CBS, or NBC would magically be able to sell more ads at a higher price for the same product?

Yeah, the championship game was packed in the years when NDSU was there, especially when their opponent was a local team. How about the first three rounds? How about other years? If you're cherry picking the last few years, why not go back to the Chattanooga games with App St playing, or heck, the Marshall Invitational years?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In terms of advertising for the FCSNCG, praytell, has ESPN actually made an effort to sell advertising for it? It's not like they've done a bang-up job hyping up its existence, so why on earth would anyone expect them to go whole hog in regards to getting advertising?

Perhaps a network that cares to actually push the product might actually do a better job making money from it, but since the powers of FCS won't shop it around, we'll never know.

[PAllen]

A couple of questions for the masses. Do we know for sure that the FCS powers that be haven't shopped the FCS playoffs around and come back empty? Who are these mysterious networks that everyone refers to that are going to spend large amounts of money promoting the FCS playoffs and are just itching to get a chance at that potential ad revenue?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A couple of questions for the masses. Do we know for sure that the FCS powers that be haven't shopped the FCS playoffs around and come back empty? Who are these mysterious networks that everyone refers to that are going to spend large amounts of money promoting the FCS playoffs and are just itching to get a chance at that potential ad revenue?

Not so mysterious. CBS Sports Network, Fox Sports 1, NBC Sports Network. All of whom have broadcast games involving FCS teams during the regular season, so the concept of them showing games involving FCS teams is hardly a foreign thing. All of these networks are looking for content just like ESPN. All have a national reach and are trying to catch ESPN.

[centennial]

There is a major ceiling for FCS in terms of television. White men are already being drawn into ESPN and other networks by FBS Football. It's my understanding that ESPN makes no money off of advertising from an FCS game outside of the MEAC/SWAC contract they have. If we want FCS Football to generate money for networks, it will have to be at the expense of FBS games, which will be very difficult to do.
What's the difference between lower G5 games/bowls and the FCS? To the average football fan anyone outside of the big boys is insignificant. At that point a game between North Dakota State and Illinois State is as inciting as one between Bowling Green and Georgia Southern. The reason ESPN is not making much money on the FCS playoffs (which stands unsubstantiated without a link) is that they refuse to promote it. They could easily hype it up, that would cause more casual football fans to give a damn + should help attendance.

[GAD]

Not so mysterious. CBS Sports Network, Fox Sports 1, NBC Sports Network. All of whom have broadcast games involving FCS teams during the regular season, so the concept of them showing games involving FCS teams is hardly a foreign thing. All of these networks are looking for content just like ESPN. All have a national reach and are trying to catch ESPN.
Most of those networks are probably broadcasting basketball games, they are not going to pull basketball games involving P5 teams to show games that involve teams most people have never even heard of playing in empty stadiums

[WestCoastAggie]

What's the difference between lower G5 games/bowls and the FCS? To the average football fan anyone outside of the big boys is insignificant. At that point a game between North Dakota State and Illinois State is as inciting as one between Bowling Green and Georgia Southern. The reason ESPN is not making much money on the FCS playoffs (which stands unsubstantiated without a link) is that they refuse to promote it. They could easily hype it up, that would cause more casual football fans to give a damn + should help attendance.

They refuse to promote it because the return on investment just isn't there.

[BluBengal07]

xcoffeex eleven pages....

[WileECoyote06]

xcoffeex eleven pages....

Still shorter than the topics on meacfanszone and onnidan. xlolx

[jstate83]

Upset that they are playing a game that means absolutely nothing...nah. Good for them, hope they line their pockets with money.

I'm more upset that the brand of football they play is going to get on the ESPN family, yet the MVFC which has great games all season long fights to be on even ESPN3. And thats why the who approached whom thing is interesting to me.

And as far as the keeping them out of the playoffs...its good for the Big Sky/MVFC/CAA/Southland as they will more than likely be the conferences that grab that extra at large.

You don't care then why are you protesting a decision made by 2 conferences that have no effect on you. When the MEAC would get a bid, I'll bet you are the type that would say they taking another worthy teams spot in the playoffs. Now that they are going another way, you here complaining at 100mph. You claim you don't care...............Prove it. Just say good luck and stop foaming at the mouth about it.

[jstate83]

I can't be the only one who potentially sees this as a gateway to eventually reclassifying both the MEAC and SWAC to the D-II level, right?

That guaranteed money would look a lot better in Division II, with fewer sports to worry about and lower overall costs. And the ADs and conference people shouldn't care because their paychecks will remain the same with ESPN. Furthermore, whether D-I or D-II, the game will probably pull in the same ratings and same audience, so for ESPN it's probably not a dealbreaker if they're D-I or D-II.

LOL.................. The SWAC has not participated in the playoffs since the SCG was created in 1999.
Last time I looked, not one school has dropped to D2 yet so why would you think this game is a "gateway" to our conferences dropping to D2?

Just asking?

[BluBengal07]

let's see who will post this "update" of more unofficial detailed information....xblahx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LOL.................. The SWAC has not participated in the playoffs since the SCG was created in 1999.
Last time I looked, not one school has dropped to D2 yet so why would you think this game is a "gateway" to our conferences dropping to D2?

Just asking?

It is a guaranteed revenue stream. Higher revenues plus lowering costs (i.e. dropping to D-II) may provide the funding necessary to sustain athletics at these schools. Since a drop to D-II is unlikely to take the bowl game off the table (and is unlikely to affect ESPN's financing of the game), it seems like the schools could drop to D-II to lower expenses yet still keep the same money.

[Pinnum]

It is a guaranteed revenue stream. Higher revenues plus lowering costs (i.e. dropping to D-II) may provide the funding necessary to sustain athletics at these schools. Since a drop to D-II is unlikely to take the bowl game off the table (and is unlikely to affect ESPN's financing of the game), it seems like the schools could drop to D-II to lower expenses yet still keep the same money.

They would have to drop the whole conference, in all sports, which would mean the conference would not be getting their minimum one unit payout in NCAA basketball money and would not get a spot for the regular season conference champ in the NIT which also has basketball unit payouts. This past year's NCAA tournament had a single unit valued at $1.6MM. For comparison, since the unit allocations started, the SWAC has earned 32 units compared to the Patriot League which has earned 27 units.

The SWAC schools already don't put much funding into their athletic departments so they wouldn't likely reduce spending too much by a move to D2 but they would substantially lose revenue by the move. And that is not even including the guarantees the basketball teams bring in or the exposure the schools get from the games which for schools like Texas Southern, this past season, were substantial.

[BluBengal07]

historically "SWAC schools already don't put much funding into their athletic departments" but Alabama State has one of the better football stadiums and football facilities in FCS(which was posted here). PVAM just just broke ground on a new open-air stadium(which is posted here). Jackson State seems to be working on some kind of on campus football stadium in some near futurexnutsx(which was posted here) UAPB's stadium is under 10 years old, Texas Southern has a fairly (football) stadium with the city of Houston(might of been posted here), Southern as recently renovated their basketball arena(i believe).

UPDATE... Mississippi Valley State just started major renovations of their basketball facility, which hasn't been touched since 1977. this should be ready by the 2015 basketball season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

historically "SWAC schools already don't put much funding into their athletic departments" but Alabama State has one of the better football stadiums and football facilities in FCS. PVAM just just broke ground on a new open-air stadium. Jackson State seems to be working on some kind of on campus football stadium in some near futurexnutsx UAPB's stadium is under 10 years old, Texas Southern has a fairly (football) stadium with the city of Houston, Southern as recently renovated their basketball arena(i believe).

A fair point, though Alabama State has also been sniffing around a potential FBS move, too.

[BluBengal07]

A fair point, though Alabama State has also been sniffing around a potential FBS move, too.

but Alabama State has MUCH bigger things to be worrying about....xrulesx

[Panther88]

let's see who will post this "update" of more unofficial detailed information....xblahx

lol Right.

[superman7515]

but Alabama State has MUCH bigger things to be worrying about....xrulesx

Man hasn't even coached a game and Brian Jenkins already has set up shop in your head. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.columbiatribune.com/sports/mu_football/citrus-bowl-trip-cost-mu-million/article_da1c8152-35db-5275-b562-56757ee5dd1a.html#.VTU-bzwpB60.twitter

What might be of interest:



Missouri reported 445 people in its Citrus Bowl traveling party, including 300 on the team and staff who stayed 11 days, 125 from the band and cheerleaders who stayed four and 20 in an “official party” of faculty and athletic department officials that also stayed four.

The department reported $885,982 of expenses for transporting its traveling party, as well as $559,799 for meals and lodging.

Missouri received 9,022 tickets for the game and sold 2,964, according to the document. It had to absorb the cost of 6,058 tickets at a total of $538,530.

Now MEAC and SWAC teams aren't on the hook for guaranteed tickets, so they wouldn't be at a "loss" the way Mizzou was here. However, what's pertinent here is that Mizzou sold 3,000 tickets, ballpark, to their postseason event (with a cost, on average of $88.80 a ticket). If the Celebration Bowl prices their tickets at $88.80 on average and a school can convince 3,000 fans to attend, they'll receive $266,400 in ticket revenue in this way, if my understanding is correct.

Are the MEAC and SWAC champions going to average more than 3,000 fans in this way, or are they going to average a higher ticket price? It doesn't seem reasonable to me to assume that they will average more, either through higher prices or more fans buying tickets at $88.80 per seat (on average).

Of course this is also only in regards to revenue. Extra costs of attending the game, travel parties, keeping the school open over Christmas break, etc., isn't included in this, so that $266,400 is not pure profit, either.

Also of note is the travel party from Mizzou. They made it bigger and spent a lot more $$ to attend the bowl. Not that I'm saying the expenses would be the same as Mizzou's here, but it seems pretty reasonable that increasing the travel parties and furnishing hotel accommodations and meals will eat up a lot of that $266,400 as well.

[WestCoastAggie]

Decks Avatar Decks
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Is the A&T administration the only ones providing information to supporters on the MEAC side? Anyways here's some additional info (paraphrased) as has been passed down:



1. The title of "Celebration Bowl" probably will be changed as soon as a corporate title sponsor is signed.

2. The MEAC did try to negotiate the contract to include the runner up in order to keep the AQ. Champion vs champion is the only format espn would agree to.

3. Other FCS conferences are very upset with the MEAC for giving up the AQ. Good luck on getting an at-large bid because it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

4. There are concerns about selling $200k in tickets a week before Xmas but there will be no chargeback on unsold tickets. Minimum net profit should be around $460k for the MEAC rep including expenses.

5. No one (presidents / AD's, etc) is allowed to discuss the vote. Everyone is under a mandate from the C.O.P to show support for the game in all public remarks. Do not expect to see any AD or coach speak against this game.

6. Won't know until next year if this will affect MEAC recruiting (question was asked).


Read more: http://meacfanszone.proboards.com/thread/28098/additional-celebration-bowl-info#ixzz3XsMypwsL

[clenz]

http://www.columbiatribune.com/sports/mu_football/citrus-bowl-trip-cost-mu-million/article_da1c8152-35db-5275-b562-56757ee5dd1a.html#.VTU-bzwpB60.twitter

What might be of interest:




Now MEAC and SWAC teams aren't on the hook for guaranteed tickets, so they wouldn't be at a "loss" the way Mizzou was here. However, what's pertinent here is that Mizzou sold 3,000 tickets, ballpark, to their postseason event (with a cost, on average of $88.80 a ticket). If the Celebration Bowl prices their tickets at $88.80 on average and a school can convince 3,000 fans to attend, they'll receive $266,400 in ticket revenue in this way, if my understanding is correct.

Are the MEAC and SWAC champions going to average more than 3,000 fans in this way, or are they going to average a higher ticket price? It doesn't seem reasonable to me to assume that they will average more, either through higher prices or more fans buying tickets at $88.80 per seat (on average).

Of course this is also only in regards to revenue. Extra costs of attending the game, travel parties, keeping the school open over Christmas break, etc., isn't included in this, so that $266,400 is not pure profit, either.

Also of note is the travel party from Mizzou. They made it bigger and spent a lot more $$ to attend the bowl. Not that I'm saying the expenses would be the same as Mizzou's here, but it seems pretty reasonable that increasing the travel parties and furnishing hotel accommodations and meals will eat up a lot of that $266,400 as well.
You ever read Death to the BCS?

A Yahoo run down of the book
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/UConn-made-the-BCS-and-all-it-got-was-this-loom?urn=ncaaf-296921

A couple quick notes from that link


The Fiesta Bowl distributed 17,500 tickets to UConn, and the school is responsible to sell them all. The cheapest of those tickets cost $111 (in the lower end zone) and can cost as much as $268 for club level.

[…] a total of 550 rooms at three different hotels ranging in price from $125-225 a night, not including tax, with blocks reserved for either three or seven nights. Additional expenses include a chartered flight and meals for the team, staff and 300-member band, as well as a $100,000 bonus to coach Randy Edsall, and smaller bonuses for assistants, per their contracts, for getting the team to a BCS bowl.

Cost of any tickets or hotel rooms that go unfilled are absorbed by the university, with the exception of the 150 rooms at the Westin Kierland Resort and Spa, where UConn is on the hook for only half of money owed on unsold rooms at the $225-a-night hotel.
Whether UConn maximizes its revenue opportunity will depend on the amount of tickets it can sell. The school will almost certainly take a bath. As of Monday night, only 4,000 tickets had been sold, meaning UConn was still holding roughly $2.5 million in unsold tickets.




When Florida won the BCS championship in 2008, the university's profit from the advertised $17 million payday amounted to $47,000 (http://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/01/post_160.html) – and that was with in-state travel, to Miami (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/teams/mmi/). The Gators took a loss (http://articles.ocregister.com/2007-12-26/sports/24682008_1_bowl-s-payout-bowl-committees-baby-sitters) on their 2006 BCS title trip to Glendale, as did their opponent, Ohio State (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/teams/oob/).

More fun quotes - http://www.sbnation.com/2009/12/17/1645494/bcs-games-full-of-white-elephants


The Big East's payout to West Virginia for its trip to the 2008 Fiesta Bowl was $2,425,600, but the team's expenses totaled $3,495,000. That's a loss of $1,069,400 (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/college/s_657537.html?feed=15).↵Florida and Ohio State ran up more than $5 million in expenses in the 2007 BCS title game, finishing with a combined deficit of more than $600,000 (http://www.ocregister.com/sports/bowl-88141-schools-last.html).
Texas A&M racked up losses of $489,978 for its trip to the 2006 Holiday Bowl.

Ball State lost $142,398 (http://www.thewizofodds.com/the_wiz_of_odds/2009/05/ball-states-gmac-bowl-bill-14239807.html) on its appearance last season in the GMAC Bowl.

Northern Illinois reported a loss of $154,125 (http://www.thewizofodds.com/the_wiz_of_odds/2009/04/northern-illinois-stuck-with-154125-bowl-bill.html) for its trip last year to the Independence Bowl. That's considerably better than the $317,898 it lost for an appearance in the 2006 Poinsettia Bowl.

Ohio lost $277,550 for its trip to the 2007 GMAC Bowl. The university dipped into general reserve funds to pay the tab, weeks after the school dropped track, swimming and lacrosse. Funding those sports cost less than $200,00 annually.



The SWAC and MEAC better hope that they are never forced to sell tickets

[BluBengal07]

Man hasn't even coached a game and Brian Jenkins already has set up shop in your head. xlolxOMG, that is the funniest thiing i've heard in awhile. i'm busting a guts inside here at work(showing no emotion externally) i am in no way speaking about the football team[they're paperboys(only look good on paper)]. i'm talking about the university itself. crap super, you just made my day.

[GAD]

You ever read Death to the BCS?

A Yahoo run down of the book
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/UConn-made-the-BCS-and-all-it-got-was-this-loom?urn=ncaaf-296921

A couple quick notes from that link





More fun quotes - http://www.sbnation.com/2009/12/17/1645494/bcs-games-full-of-white-elephants





The SWAC and MEAC better hope that they are never forced to sell tickets
Selling tickets is not a problem in the SWAC we do that better than anybody in FCS

[clenz]

Selling tickets is not a problem in the SWAC we do that better than anybody in FCS
Each school could sell 15-20K tickets, at full face value, in less than a week?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Selling tickets is not a problem in the SWAC we do that better than anybody in FCS *

* if you are not Delaware State, Mississippi Valley State, Alcorn State....

[BluBengal07]

regurgitating the unnecessary and unrealistic to create fault and forgetting thousands of people outside of the universities attends games like this to support and enjoy.

Delaware State is not SWAC and Alcorn State brought very strong numbers to 2014 SCG in Texas, and they are not a true traveling fan base. xcoffeex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

regurgitating the unnecessary and unrealistic to create fault and forgetting thousands of people outside of the universities attends games like this to support and enjoy.

Delaware State is not SWAC and Alcorn State brought very strong numbers to 2014 SCG in Texas, and they are not a true traveling fan base. xcoffeex

It's "unnecessary and unrealistic" to think MVSU, DSU or Alcorn State might be in the title game?

Certainly people without an alumni tie to the universities would attend the Celebration Bowl, as independent fans will attend a low-level FBS bowl like the Citrus Bowl. However the ticket sales that go into the "profit" for the schools are sold through the university, so those are ostensibly going to fans of the school in question.

[GAD]

Each school could sell 15-20K tickets, at full face value, in less than a week?
No, but Jackson State, Southern, Grambling, could sell 20K Alabama State and Alcorn could do 15K
keep in mind the SWAC champ game has gone over 30K the past 3 seasons

[BluBengal07]

It's "unnecessary and unrealistic" to think MVSU, DSU or Alcorn State might be in the title game?

Certainly people without an alumni tie to the universities would attend the Celebration Bowl, as independent fans will attend a low-level FBS bowl like the Citrus Bowl. However the ticket sales that go into the "profit" for the schools are sold through the university, so those are ostensibly going to fans of the school in question.

just speaking that DSU is not SWAC. anything is possible overall, but the current review/discussion is based off of the first bowl game(which details can change soon after), which DSU(from MEAC), Valley and maybe Alcorn won't be in for 2015. never had said never.

[GAD]

* if you are not Delaware State, Mississippi Valley State, Alcorn State....
Alcorns side at the SWAC Champ game
https://youtu.be/H2T2EdRNqbA

[BluBengal07]

Alcorns side at the SWAC Champ game
https://youtu.be/H2T2EdRNqbA

i am not going to click on that.xrotatehx

[GAD]

i am not going to click on that.xrotatehx
It pains me to look at it

[centennial]

Selling tickets is not a problem in the SWAC we do that better than anybody in FCS
MVFC and SWAC are neck to neck. Cannot find the 2014 numbers anymore, for 2013 SWAC is slightly better.

[BluBengal07]

MVFC and SWAC are neck to neck. Cannot find the 2014 numbers anymore, for 2013 SWAC is slightly better.

for 2013, it's #1 SWAC, #2 Southern #3 MVFC in avg game attendance, but as total folks showing up, MVFC is ahead of Southern. (i can't get onto NCAA.org at work. sports related, but got the detail from my cell. :()

[clenz]

for 2013, it's #1 SWAC, #2 Southern #3 MVFC in avg game attendance, but as total folks showing up, MVFC is ahead of Southern. (i can't get onto NCAA.org at work. sports related, but got the detail from my cell. :()
The Southern will fall big time in 2014 with the loss of App State and Georgia Southern...

SWAC - 55 games 682,841 total 12,412 avg
SoCon - 51 games 592,778 total 11,623 avg
MVFC 62 games 664,775 total 10,722 average

MVFC had 5 in the top 25 for attendance
SWAC had 4 in the top 25 for attendance

[clenz]

This past season, using conference website stats

MVFC was 10,700 average for home games
SWAC was 9,496 average for home games

MVFC was 13,664 for all games played
SWAC was 13,619 for all games played

[Herder]

Can someone please explain to me the value of winning the SWAC championship? Why wouldn't the SWAC champion want to pursue at National Championship?

Name one other conference championship that really means anything at compared to competing for a national championship? Should Ohio State just end their season and celebrate after winning a B1G title, or is it just a stepping stone to the NC? B1G championship is just a stepping stone really, a necessary but meaningless goal.

Why would a SWAC championship be more important than a NC? Who in their right mind thinks this way? Why wouldn't you build you conf championship into a pre playoff game? Explain

[CasualFan]

Can someone please explain to me the value of winning the SWAC championship? Why wouldn't the SWAC champion want to pursue at National Championship?

Name one other conference championship that really means anything at compared to competing for a national championship? Should Ohio State just end their season and celebrate after winning a B1G title, or is it just a stepping stone to the NC? B1G championship is just a stepping stone really, a necessary but meaningless goal.

Why would a SWAC championship be more important than a NC? Who in their right mind thinks this way? Why wouldn't you build you conf championship into a pre playoff game? Explain
Money. Take a look at that you-tube video, and count the paying fans. Now think how much better odds you have of getting to that game.

[Pinnum]

It's not just money.

The SWAC, much like the Ivy League, is very focused on preserving rivalries. The Conference centric model is great for preserving rivalries which helps to keep regular season attendance high.

Additionally, as a conference with many member schools struggling with APR, as a result of their mission of providing education to a large pool of first generation, low income, students, offering a championship quality opportunity and experience without the added distractions from an lengthy season from tournament advancement, the school is able to best serve their students.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Can someone please explain to me the value of winning the SWAC championship? Why wouldn't the SWAC champion want to pursue at National Championship?

Name one other conference championship that really means anything at compared to competing for a national championship? Should Ohio State just end their season and celebrate after winning a B1G title, or is it just a stepping stone to the NC? B1G championship is just a stepping stone really, a necessary but meaningless goal.

Why would a SWAC championship be more important than a NC? Who in their right mind thinks this way? Why wouldn't you build you conf championship into a pre playoff game? Explain

A SWAC championship and this Celebration Bowl is a promise of money to pay the athletic departments of their underfunded members. It's a financial decision.

When FCS schools elect to play for a national, D-I championship in FCS, it's a competition decision. It's not in and of itself a million-dollar payday for the participants.

Ohio State isn't hurting for money. They (and the rest of the members of the P5) elected to make a plus-one playoff, not-all-members-of-FBS-need-apply in order to make even more money. I get the impression if the B1G felt they would make more money without the CFP, they'd put it in the dumpster tomorrow.

[clenz]

Can someone please explain to me the value of winning the SWAC championship? Why wouldn't the SWAC champion want to pursue at National Championship?

Name one other conference championship that really means anything at compared to competing for a national championship? Should Ohio State just end their season and celebrate after winning a B1G title, or is it just a stepping stone to the NC? B1G championship is just a stepping stone really, a necessary but meaningless goal.

Why would a SWAC championship be more important than a NC? Who in their right mind thinks this way? Why wouldn't you build you conf championship into a pre playoff game? Explain
Money..


But from a competition stand point it gives the SWAC/MEAC title winners the illusion of being competitive across the FCS. The SWAC/MEAC no longer have to field recruits to try to compete with the CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, etc... They only have to be the best in their conference. They no longer have to worry about being able to beat anyone other than other MEAC/SWAC teams. They also no longer have to prove they are quality with the FCS or not.

[Pinnum]

Money..


But from a competition stand point it gives the SWAC/MEAC title winners the illusion of being competitive across the FCS. The SWAC/MEAC no longer have to field recruits to try to compete with the CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, etc... They only have to be the best in their conference. They no longer have to worry about being able to beat anyone other than other MEAC/SWAC teams. They also no longer have to prove they are quality with the FCS or not.

I agree. I also it makes the schools look like they have more in common with FBS programs. Since most fans and recruits are ignorant to a lot of the administration they will look at the teams that trying to play in a bowl game and the teams trying to make the FCS playoffs and see the SWAC in the former camp.

[number1]

It pains me to look at it
Should have posted the ending from the 2013 SWAC title game. lol

[number1]

Can someone please explain to me the value of winning the SWAC championship? Why wouldn't the SWAC champion want to pursue at National Championship?

Name one other conference championship that really means anything at compared to competing for a national championship? Should Ohio State just end their season and celebrate after winning a B1G title, or is it just a stepping stone to the NC? B1G championship is just a stepping stone really, a necessary but meaningless goal.

Why would a SWAC championship be more important than a NC? Who in their right mind thinks this way? Why wouldn't you build you conf championship into a pre playoff game? Explain

1. The conference championship can't be a pre-playoff game because the dates wouldn't line up for the winner to make the playoffs. Remember the Bayou Classic is the same weekend as the start of the playoffs.

2. Go review clips of the 2013 and 2014 SWAC Championship games, and review the atmosphere of the game from the fans and players. Now tell me if that same atmosphere would be present against Sam Houston State or Northern Iowa.(teams our fans never heard of and don't care for our teams to play) And no folks, this has nothing to do with the bands.

[OhioHen]

Can someone please explain to me the value of winning the SWAC championship? Why wouldn't the SWAC champion want to pursue at National Championship?

Name one other conference championship that really means anything at compared to competing for a national championship? Should Ohio State just end their season and celebrate after winning a B1G title, or is it just a stepping stone to the NC? B1G championship is just a stepping stone really, a necessary but meaningless goal.

Why would a SWAC championship be more important than a NC? Who in their right mind thinks this way? Why wouldn't you build you conf championship into a pre playoff game? Explain

Self-imposed segregation.

[walliver]

Self-imposed segregation.

The value of winning the SWAC is the same as the value of winning the Ivy League. To those involved, it means a lot.

It doesn't bother me that the Ivies don't come to our hoe-down. It doesn't bother me that the SWAC doesn't participate. I won't miss the MEAC if they leave. I tolerate the Pioneer League's participation.

I don't quite understand why uninvolved people are so upset over this game. I suspect much of the wrath comes from people who are jealous that HBCU "classics" and similar games outdraw the FCS playoffs. The reality is that the SWAC and MEAC represent of highest level of HBCU football. FCS represents the second highest level of college football. That is reflected in attendance numbers and TV ratings.

It is not something worth arguing about, as both are overshadowed by the P5 and their "College Football Playoff".

[clenz]

The value of winning the SWAC is the same as the value of winning the Ivy League. To those involved, it means a lot.

It doesn't bother me that the Ivies don't come to our hoe-down. It doesn't bother me that the SWAC doesn't participate. I won't miss the MEAC if they leave. I tolerate the Pioneer League's participation.

I don't quite understand why uninvolved people are so upset over this game. I suspect much of the wrath comes from people who are jealous that HBCU "classics" and similar games outdraw the FCS playoffs. The reality is that the SWAC and MEAC represent of highest level of HBCU football. FCS represents the second highest level of college football. That is reflected in attendance numbers and TV ratings.

It is not something worth arguing about, as both are overshadowed by the P5 and their "College Football Playoff".
At this point this is essentially my exact feelings.

If the SWAC and MEAC want to take their ball and segregate themselves then so be it. I just feel they lose all right to bitch and moan about anything related to being segregated from the FCS that might negatively impact them. The reality is that the SWAC and MEAC are D2 caliber conferences...not even necessarily high D2. The further they can segregate themselves away from being the "face of the FCS" on ESPN the better, IMO. That includes Jay Williams.

The Ivy, well, same with them. Though I would love to see the Ivy's participate in the playoffs and actually be a true member of the FCS community and not just "FCSINO". I know people think they could compete for the FBS national title (you're absolutely nuts if you actually believe that...then again these same people probably still believe Army and Navy could win a title if they wanted too) but I'm not sure how they actually compare to the FCS right now. They play each, the NEC and the Patriot. We all know how the Patriot and NEC compare to the rest of the FCS. I think it'd be great for the FCS if the Ivy pulled their postseason ban.

That Pioneer is what it is. I will tolerate them. They are well over a decade away from contenting for a playoff victory - yet still closer than the MEAC or SWAC, IMO. They want a bid and are an FCS conference, I don't see why they can't/shouldn't have one.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The FCS playoffs are hurt by the self-segregation of the MEAC, SWAC and Ivy Leagues because it makes the FCS playoffs more homogeneous and less diverse. If they chose to participate in the FCS playoffs it would be a huge step forward in having them feel more like the NCAA tournament in men's basketball, a huge tournament where the biggest and the smallest, public/private, HBCU/not, all get a fair shot at the championship. Instead, we're going to probably get one or two more Youngstown State-type teams instead of teams like FAMU in the playoffs. That's boring, just as if the MEAC, SWAC and Ivy Leagues left the men's basketball tournament and 3 more P5 teams hovering around .500 took their place.

The FCS playoffs are strongest when the SWAC, Ivy, and MEAC are all sending their champions there, and facing off against the best teams in the subdivision - same as the NEC, PFL, and every possible AQ-qualifying conference. When conference choose to segregate themselves, whether due to a money chase (SWAC, MEAC) or hypocritical legacy and philosophical reasons (Ivy), the playoffs are hurt.

[kdinva]

The FCS playoffs are strongest when the SWAC, Ivy, and MEAC are all sending their champions there, and facing off against the best teams in the subdivision - same as the NEC, PFL, and every possible AQ-qualifying conference. When conference choose to segregate themselves, whether due to a money chase (SWAC, MEAC) or hypocritical legacy and philosophical reasons (Ivy), the playoffs are hurt.

xthumbsupx

[clenz]

You do realize the total record of the SWAC and MEAC in the playoffs is something like 6-49 with no wins since 1999, right?

How does having 2 conferences, that can't win playoff games, in the playoffs (along with the PFL, which is years away with it's best case scenario, and NEC who has 1 win) make it better?

Why should a 4th place MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, or SLC team get in before a second (or first if the MEAC maintains an AL)? Because they are better teams.

Would it be nice to have all FCS conferences play nicely with each other? Sure. I'm not convinced that makes the playoffs better from a competitive stand point.

[WileECoyote06]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/52191063.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You do realize the total record of the SWAC and MEAC in the playoffs is something like 6-49 with no wins since 1999, right?

How does having 2 conferences, that can't win playoff games, in the playoffs (along with the PFL, which is years away with it's best case scenario, and NEC who has 1 win) make it better?

Why should a 4th place MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, or SLC team get in before a second (or first if the MEAC maintains an AL)? Because they are better teams.

Would it be nice to have all FCS conferences play nicely with each other? Sure. I'm not convinced that makes the playoffs better from a competitive stand point.

Why should UNI be in the men's basketball tournament? They don't have a chance of winning, right? They haven't won before?

Does UNI's presence in the tourney make it better, or worse? Do they have the capability of making a run, and maybe winning?

Of course UNI should be in the men's basketball tournament. And the MEAC, SWAC and Ivy, PFL, and NEC should be in the FCS playoffs for the same reasons.

[clenz]

Why should UNI be in the men's basketball tournament? They don't have a chance of winning, right? They haven't won before?

Does UNI's presence in the tourney make it better, or worse? Do they have the capability of making a run, and maybe winning?

Of course UNI should be in the men's basketball tournament. And the MEAC, SWAC and Ivy, PFL, and NEC should be in the FCS playoffs for the same reasons.
UNI has more NCAA tournament wins this year than the SWAC ever had in their 19 playoff games and more than the SWAC has had since I was in JR high and Y2K hysteria was at it's peak.

The NEC, which has had a bid for 6 years, has more wins than the SWAC ever or MEAC since 1999


Terrible arguement


I'm not arguing for anyone to lose a bid. I'm saying if you want to exclude yourself because you can't win then why should "we" be sad and let you back in?


Face it, the MEAC did this because they finally realized they couldn't win in the FCS playoffs. The money thing is their story though.

Same reason the SWAC left the playoffs after going 0-19

[centennial]

My feeling is similar. The MEAC has realized that they cannot be successful in the FCS at the current funding levels. It makes perfect sense for them not to want to stick around. It does astound me that colleges that fought against segregation decide to self segregate to keep appearances.

[AggieManiac704]

xbawlingx

[Panther88]

My feeling is similar. The MEAC has realized that they cannot be successful in the FCS at the current funding levels. It makes perfect sense for them not to want to stick around. It does astound me that colleges that fought against segregation decide to self segregate to keep appearances.

No one is self-segregating *smh*. I see 2 conferences doing what is financially in their best interests, while satisifying their current fanbases and/or alumni. Isn't that what all the "bowl" hoopla is about as well? And FTR, there is no such animal as "integration," so please use the "A" word that most of us use today.

[clenz]

No one is self-segregating *smh*. I see 2 conferences doing what is financially in their best interests, while satisifying their current fanbases and/or alumni. Isn't that what all the "bowl" hoopla is about as well? And FTR, there is no such animal as "integration," so please use the "A" word that most of us use today.
You do know the definition of segregation?

It's pretty much exactly what is happening.

The ivy did the same. It's not a race thing

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[DEX]

xbawlingx


Are you shedding tears over the MEAC's decision to give up the AQ or the fact we are likely on our way out of the conference?

[GAD]

No one is self-segregating *smh*. I see 2 conferences doing what is financially in their best interests, while satisifying their current fanbases and/or alumni. Isn't that what all the "bowl" hoopla is about as well? And FTR, there is no such animal as "integration," so please use the "A" word that most of us use today.
It always our fault, no one ever ask the NCAA why they started the playoffs on a weekend we traditionally played our biggest games on

[superman7515]

No one cares about the MEAC/SWAC... MEAC/SWAC decide to do their own thing... A couple of months, four threads, and several hundred posts later, everyone is still talking about the two conferences that supposedly no one cares about. xlolx

http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b1/b1e9d19c_Charlie-Sheen-Winning-Duh.jpeg

[dbackjon]

Are you shedding tears over the MEAC's decision to give up the AQ or the fact we are likely on our way out of the conference?

To where?

[WestCoastAggie]

To where?

We are talking to other FCS Conferences currently to see where we fit the best to succeed.

[Pinnum]

We are talking to other FCS Conferences currently to see where we fit the best to succeed.

Pioneer seems like the best fit. Would the MEAC allow for you to stay in the conference for all sports but defect for football?

[Panther88]

It always our fault, no one ever ask the NCAA why they started the playoffs on a weekend we traditionally played our biggest games on

I don't pay it any attention other than ensuring that the confs do what is in their best interests to survive this financial firestorm that's occurring.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't pay it any attention other than ensuring that the confs do what is in their best interests to survive this financial firestorm that's occurring.

This is actually one of my points. If the SWAC/MEAC ever feel they need to reclassify - or their hand is forced, somehow - this ESPN money will remain.

[WestCoastAggie]

Pioneer seems like the best fit. Would the MEAC allow for you to stay in the conference for all sports but defect for football?

PFL? Really? We offer scholarships? xeyebrowx

[Pinnum]

PFL? Really? We offer scholarships? xeyebrowx

I think the MEAC/SWAC is a good fit and I actually think a move to a NEC wouldn't serve the school very well and I am not sure that a higher level conference would yield enough consistent success to excite the fan base and allow for recruitment over other MEAC programs.

I am trying to think of this as a University strategic decision rather than a football centric decision that I am not sure will help the school as much. A move to the Pioneer would allow the football aid to be redistributed to the general scholarship fund which would serve the school well in the current climate that is effecting a lot of the MEAC/SWAC schools. The Pioneer would allow for conference success while also allowing access to the playoffs.

Though, that was less my point. If the Aggies are set on leaving the MEAC, will they have to leave for all sports? I am not sure what conference would be a good fit for them.

[clenz]

Is the NEC really an institutional fit?

[WestCoastAggie]

I think the MEAC/SWAC is a good fit and I actually think a move to a NEC wouldn't serve the school very well and I am not sure that a higher level conference would yield enough consistent success to excite the fan base and allow for recruitment over other MEAC programs.

I am trying to think of this as a University strategic decision rather than a football centric decision that I am not sure will help the school as much. A move to the Pioneer would allow the football aid to be redistributed to the general scholarship fund which would serve the school well in the current climate that is effecting a lot of the MEAC/SWAC schools. The Pioneer would allow for conference success while also allowing access to the playoffs.

Though, that was less my point. If the Aggies are set on leaving the MEAC, will they have to leave for all sports? I am not sure what conference would be a good fit for them.


Okay...

[WestCoastAggie]

Is the NEC really an institutional fit?

Umm... No.

[AggieManiac704]

Are you shedding tears over the MEAC's decision to give up the AQ or the fact we are likely on our way out of the conference?

I'm quite fine with us leaving if the offer comes.
Will drop a thug tear for the AQ though. Hate that stipulation... the bowl game is an awesome idea. But the AQ loss is fuggin atrocious b.

[clenz]

Umm... No.
Pretty much what I figured

[FargoBison]

NC A&T could join the Big South, perhaps park the rest of their sports in the ASun.

[813Jag]

NC A&T could join the Big South, perhaps park the rest of their sports in the ASun.
Why not go all sports in the Big South?

[FargoBison]

Why not go all sports in the Big South?

That could work as well I guess, whatever the case any school that wants to leave the MEAC has some options.

If a group of MEAC schools moved together, they could maybe even go to the ASun and create a new FCS league.

[OnGRattler]

That could work as well I guess, whatever the case any school that wants to leave the MEAC has some options.

If a group of MEAC schools moved together, they could maybe even go to the ASun and create a new FCS league.
Or the defected MEAC members could be added with current A-Sun members who sponsor football (I believe kennessaw st and jaxu) and push for the conference office to sponsor FCS football and take the MEAC's AQ.

[clenz]

I don't see Jacksonville going scholarship ball.

KSU would make for an interesting case study though with feeling comfortably in the ASUN for all sports if that happened or more comfortable going Big South fully

[FargoBison]

Nobody's going to pay for the rights to televise something that they can't sell ads for. ESPN doesn't make money on the ad sales for the FCS Championship. Do you really think that Fox, CBS, or NBC would magically be able to sell more ads at a higher price for the same product?

Yeah, the championship game was packed in the years when NDSU was there, especially when their opponent was a local team. How about the first three rounds? How about other years? If you're cherry picking the last few years, why not go back to the Chattanooga games with App St playing, or heck, the Marshall Invitational years?

You don't think ESPN is selling ads for a game that draws 1.5 million viewers? The FCS title game had 1.5 million viewers, NDSU-CCU also had 1.5 million viewers and NDSU-SHSU 750k viewers. They are loving those numbers and making money off of them, both of the NDSU games with 1.5 million viewers were the third highest rated show on ESPN's family networks for that day, heck they were the third highest rated show on cable sports TV for the day. Why do you think ESPN expanded to include an FCS kickoff game? It is something they can sell.

FCS football can be sold to TV networks. It is just a number of groups with interest in the FCS do an awful job at selling it.

[OnGRattler]

You don't think ESPN is selling ads for a game that draws 1.5 million viewers? The FCS title game had 1.5 million viewers, NDSU-CCU also had 1.5 million viewers and NDSU-SHSU 750k viewers. They are loving those numbers and making money off of them, both of the NDSU games with 1.5 million viewers were the third highest rated show on ESPN's family networks for that day, heck they were the third highest rated show on cable sports TV for the day. Why do you think ESPN expanded to include an FCS kickoff game? It is something they can sell.

FCS football can be sold to TV networks. It is just a number of groups with interest in the FCS do an awful job at selling it.
100% agree.

[Bisonoline]

You don't think ESPN is selling ads for a game that draws 1.5 million viewers? The FCS title game had 1.5 million viewers, NDSU-CCU also had 1.5 million viewers and NDSU-SHSU 750k viewers. They are loving those numbers and making money off of them, both of the NDSU games with 1.5 million viewers were the third highest rated show on ESPN's family networks for that day, heck they were the third highest rated show on cable sports TV for the day. Why do you think ESPN expanded to include an FCS kickoff game? It is something they can sell.

FCS football can be sold to TV networks. It is just a number of groups with interest in the FCS do an awful job at selling it.

The thing is the playoffs and the FCS Championship game came with the package they purchased. Its taken them awhile tofigure out that there is interest in the FCS level playoffs and Championship. I think a lot of their interest was piqued because of NDSUs following.

[FargoBison]

The thing is the playoffs and the FCS Championship game came with the package they purchased. Its taken them awhile tofigure out that there is interest in the FCS level playoffs and Championship. I think a lot of their interest was piqued because of NDSUs following.

They knew there was plenty of interest long before NDSU's run, the Montana-App State playoff game in 2009 had 2.5 million viewers.

The FCS playoffs are something that can be sold and always have been, it is just the NCAA and the FCS powers that be do a horrendous job of selling it and growing it.

Honestly, I think the FCS would have been better served to have been like the FBS and kept the NCAA out of the playoff completely.

[Bisonoline]

They knew there was plenty of interest long before NDSU's run, the Montana-App State playoff game in 2009 had 2.5 million viewers.

The FCS playoffs are something that can be sold and always have been, it is just the NCAA and the FCS powers that be do a horrendous job of selling it and growing it.

Honestly, I think the FCS would have been better served to have been like the FBS and kept the NCAA out of the playoff completely.

I agree. if they would have put it in private hands like a bowl game they would have been beating the promotion drums. Look at FBS even with crappy attendance to most of the games there are new cities every year trying to sponsor a bowl game.
But the fact remains ESPN owns the rights to the games and they own a few bowl games already. So the question is why hasn't ESPN been selling this game?

[dbackjon]

Honestly, I think the FCS would have been better served to have been like the FBS and kept the NCAA out of the playoff completely.


100% Disagree.

[FargoBison]

100% Disagree.

The NCAA does an abysmal job with the playoffs. Robs the schools that actually pack in fans blind, doesn't do a thing to promote it, TV deal is lackluster....it is a joke.

Would love to see the top of the FCS and G5 merge and do their own thing.

[Pinnum]

The NCAA does an abysmal job with the playoffs. Robs the schools that actually pack in fans blind, doesn't do a thing to promote it, TV deal is lackluster....it is a joke.

Would love to see the top of the FCS and G5 merge and do their own thing.

I am curious why you say that. The 2014 FCS championship was watched by 1.4M people which I consider a very good performance considering Utah and Oregon State's Pac 12 meeting was only watched by 84k on Fox Sports 1. I think ESPN does well at promoting the championship given all their other programing they must also promote. They also get very strong ratings for the D2 and D3 championships. Though, I believe people are curious and drown to them due to the novelty and the fact that they are championships. Do you think ESPN is doing less promotion of the FCS championship than they are for the Camellia Bowl with Southern Alabama and Bowling Green watched by 1.1M or the Boca Raton Bowl with Marshall and Northern Illinois watched by 2.25M?

Just being on ESPN2 is a huge boost in distribution. I am not sure of any other network other than broadcast that would be able to get such great distribution. Even Fox Sports 1 wouldn't draw as well (as evident by the Utah/Oregon State game).

Also, what do you mean by a G5/FCS merger and how would you propose structuring it?

[FargoBison]

I am curious why you say that. The 2014 FCS championship was watched by 1.4M people which I consider a very good performance considering Utah and Oregon State's Pac 12 meeting was only watched by 84k on Fox Sports 1. I think ESPN does well at promoting the championship given all their other programing they must also promote. They also get very strong ratings for the D2 and D3 championships. Though, I believe people are curious and drown to them due to the novelty and the fact that they are championships. Do you think ESPN is doing less promotion of the FCS championship than they are for the Camellia Bowl with Southern Alabama and Bowling Green watched by 1.1M or the Boca Raton Bowl with Marshall and Northern Illinois watched by 2.25M?

Just being on ESPN2 is a huge boost in distribution. I am not sure of any other network other than broadcast that would be able to get such great distribution. Even Fox Sports 1 wouldn't draw as well (as evident by the Utah/Oregon State game).

Also, what do you mean by a G5/FCS merger and how would you propose structuring it?

The NCAA just shovels the FCS playoffs into this massive package of postseason events, that is what the sell ESPN and the playoffs are just a small piece of it. The coverage of it mostly non-existent, no TV games at all the first two rounds. The FCS would be better off doing it all by itself. Selling it alone and working hard to promote and grow it.

The NCAA does nothing to grow the event, in fact they punish the most successful schools. If you are an NDSU or Montana or in past a program like GSU or App State....you pack your stadium and the NCAA walks away with a massive amount of the gate. It is a joke, I would be fine with it if the I felt the NCAA was doing more to grow subdivision but I don't get that feeling at all.

G5/FCS merger would only happen if the G5 decided to do its own playoff. Which could happen if the P5 continues to spend more and more while limiting the G5 when it comes to the playoff. None of those conferences would want to go down to the FCS, so they would look at doing their own thing which would be smart since the NCAA is clueless in growing the FCS brand.

[Pinnum]

So you want to set up a new association just for FCS football?

ESPN will expand the coverage when the ratings warrant it. I am not sure the new association would do anything more. The NCAA is very good at maximizing profits which is why they bundle championship TV contracts. It helps to mitigate risk and doesn't cripple a championship when there is a low rating.

You want the host school to keep more money for hosting? Where would the travel reimbursements come from? Also, who would fund the new association to have a staff to represent the association in media deals? Since the FCS Championships is currently not profitable, I am not sure why you think FCS Championship would be of a higher quality if autonomous from the NCAA.

[FargoBison]

So you want to set up a new association just for FCS football?

ESPN will expand the coverage when the ratings warrant it. I am not sure the new association would do anything more. The NCAA is very good at maximizing profits which is why they bundle championship TV contracts. It helps to mitigate risk and doesn't cripple a championship when there is a low rating.

You want the host school to keep more money for hosting? Where would the travel reimbursements come from? Also, who would fund the new association to have a staff to represent the association in media deals? Since the FCS Championships is currently not profitable, I am not sure why you think FCS Championship would be of a higher quality if autonomous from the NCAA.

I don't think the ratings are the problem, I've seen the ratings and they are very strong. ESPN has to be very happy. I think the problem is that the NCAA doesn't fight for the FCS, the FCS TV rights are just a smaller part of a bigger deal the involves TV coverage for a vast number of NCAA postseason events.

As for the separate association I think in the past it might have made sense but some of the stronger programs have left and I am not sure it could be done now that I think about it. A merger of the G5 and top of the FCS could easily pull it off though.

As for the cut the NCAA gets, I already said that I don't want more for the host school. I just want more invested back into increasing promotion and coverage of the playoff. I think if you are an NDSU or Montana like program cutting a very large check that is the least that could be done. Right now there is no promotion at all and coverage doesn't exist for the first two rounds. Instead of investing in the playoff the NCAA just expanded it and made it more bloated and expensive.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Since we're on the topic, if ESPN has been such a great curator of the playoffs, how come at least two games of every round are not televised on an ESPN Network? I'm not saying they all need to be on the flagship. But ESPN is paying to have a staff to call the game for ESPN3, why don't they at least carry these games on ESPNews or ESPN Classic?

This could be done easily at no additional cost by ESPN. It might even make them more money on the asset. Yet they don't. Why?

It is a copout to say "ESPN will expand the coverage when the ratings warrant it". They have the capability tomorrow to take something they produce, put it on one of their networks that already deliver microscopic ratings, and do better. It's more accurate that ESPN doesn't appear to be managing the asset they already have in a proper way. That's why I think it's a great idea to shop around the coverage to a suite of networks that really want it. I frankly think a different set of networks will simply care more and give FCS more.

FCS doesn't need a new association, but the association that's there shouldn't settle for potato chips when roast beef could be a potential offering somewhere else.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Where would the travel reimbursements come from?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/04/ncaa-reaches-14-year-deal-with-cbsturner/1#.VUWdePlVhBc


The NCAA announced it has reached a 14-year, nearly $11 billion agreement with CBS and Turner Sports for the TV rights to a 68-team tournament -- up three teams from the current 65. Negotiations with CBS/Turner, ESPN and Fox Sports initially had targeted a 96-team bracket.

Selling a couple ivory backscratchers ought to do it.

[FargoBison]

Here the TV ratings for last year's FCS playoffs....

NDSU-ISU 1.45 million viewers...#1 telecast on ESPN2 for that week by about 1 million viewers over the next highest rated telecast.
NDSU-CCU 1.45 million viewers....#10 telecast on ESPN for that week beating out a number of NBA games and marquee college basketball games
NDSU-SHSU 790k viewers...#1 telecast on ESPN2 for that week
UNH-Chatty 675k viewers....#2 telecast on ESPN2 for that week
ISU-UNH 370k viewers.....#2 telecast on ESPNU for that week(barely edged out by another college football game, but much stronger then #3 telecast for the week)

Ratings are not the problem here, the FCS playoffs are doing well with basically no promotion at all.

[GAD]

They knew there was plenty of interest long before NDSU's run, the Montana-App State playoff game in 2009 had 2.5 million viewers.

The FCS playoffs are something that can be sold and always have been, it is just the NCAA and the FCS powers that be do a horrendous job of selling it and growing it.

Honestly, I think the FCS would have been better served to have been like the FBS and kept the NCAA out of the playoff completely.
The SWAC suggested this the year after the BCS formed... but nobody wanted to listen

[Pinnum]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/04/ncaa-reaches-14-year-deal-with-cbsturner/1#.VUWdePlVhBc



Selling a couple ivory backscratchers ought to do it.

I am not sure if you're being serious of facetious since you were previously saying how the NCAA doesn't pay but the hosts pay for travel. So are you now admitting the host doesn't pay and that the NCAA subsidizes the championships?

Also, I was asking where it would come from in FargoBison's proposal. I know exactly how it works currently.

[Pinnum]

BisonFan -

How do you propose more promotion? Networks are going to try to get the maximum viewership and revenue for their inventory. If you have two properties and you have shown that when you use your limited on air time to promote a property you're able to get a 20% raise in viewership, do you promote the FCS championship and try to get it to 1.5M viewers or something else that you think you'll get to 2.2M?

If you want to shop the championship around then the FCS presidents can ask the NCAA to split it off and shop it as its own event. However, I don't think the Presidents would actually be supportive of it. With the exception of just a few schools in FCS the majority of the schools are not football centric and they also have an interest in the other sports the NCAA sponsors championship.

From what I have seen, Fox Sports 1 is the only prospective network to pick up the event at this time. NBCSN or CBSSN would be the next prospects. All four of these networks bump to their broadcast network when it is viable or they are lacking of inventory. H

However, that time of year leads to a lot of competition with other inventory that the networks made a significant investment into developing. If you're a network and you have a contract for just a few games with one event or a whole season with another you make the investment into the season. This is why they would be more willing to show a lower rated college basketball game than a playoff FCS game. I also recall hearing that ESPN was overbuying college bowl games to ensure that FS1 would struggle with getting quality inventory. I would suspect that ESPN gave network guarantees that ensured the bowl games were on ESPN rather than ESPNU or ESPNnews. I do recall that ESPN thought the bowl game market was saturated and had a concerns that there wouldn't be enough interest in all the games when they made the play to be the one stop shop for bowl games. What they found was that people don't have to care about the games but they will tune in to watch the bow games simply because they are during the holidays and the other alternative for people is having to talk to family.

However, following the ratings for various networks and leagues we all know that getting the right distribution deal is important. FCS presidents are more conferenced with distribution since they will not see revenue sharing from the TV deal. As a result, you want to be on a network that will get the most exposure nationally. There is no better network than ESPN for doing that. Would doubling the number of games shown on TV grow FCS following if they were on a regional sports network or a network like CBSSN? While it could draw in more of the current fans and make them more interested, I doubt the ratings would be anywhere near where they currently are and I don't think many FCS presidents are actually concerned with growing FCS's fan base. Most Presidents are only concerned with their program and as a result the top schools often would rather be seen on a major network getting their school some national branding than getting more FCS schools a little bit of exposure and sacrificing themselves at the same time.

Personally, I think ESPN has been good for FCS and I think FCS has seen great growth with ESPN. At the same time, I think FCS took a hit due to teams like Appalachian State and UMass moving up and not finding as much success as some might have expected. If more transitioning teams found some success like GSU then there would likely be more people interested in FCS but a lot of former FCS fans at these schools like to talk about how much greater FBS is and cite the difference to back up that assertion.

With all that said, if FCS Presidents wanted to explore a new deal with another network I wouldn't oppose it but when I look at ratings like Big East Basketball and how they were so weak on FS1, I am skeptical. I mean, honestly, I will turn to ESPN/ESPN2 or broadcast networks long before I ever think of looking to see what is on any of the other national or regional sports networks. It is only if those other networks haven't interested me will I bother looking at what else is available. Without knowing how many of the 1.4M viewers are FCS fans rather than people that just tuned in for the football game when they turned on their go to sports channels it is hard to compare the prospect of another network.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

On December 13th, 2014 there was exactly one FBS game on TV: Army vs. Navy, on network television.

There were, however, four Division I football games on. (Coastal/NDSU, Sam Houston/Villanova, Illinois St/Eastern Washington.) (Chatty/UNH was on Friday.)

Coastal/NDSU was on the air, but SHSU/Villanova and Illinois State/EWU were not, they were relegated to ESPN3.

The competition on TV that day on ESPN networks were:

"Holiday hoops"
NCAA Women's Volleyball regional finals
Pop Warner Midget Super Bowl
Five other men's hoops games involving P5 teams

Let's assume for a moment that ESPN honestly thinks the "Pop Warner Midget Super Bowl" will outdraw a Division I playoff game in viewership, which I don't. Let's assume for coverage of the women's volleyball "super regionals", ESPN's hands were tied. Let's assume ESPN believes that a December men's hoops game of Wichita State vs. Detroit Mercy (one of the actual games in question) would out-strip Illinois State/Eastern Washington for viewership, which I don't. Even with these three assumptions, this list of ESPN coverage options does not include ESPN properties ESPN Classic or ESPN News. ESPN could have elected to put both games on TV on one of these two networks (just like they had elected to do with sundry FBS game during the course of the regular season) but did not. They already had committed to put the game on ESPN3, had a broadcast team, and everything - they simply didn't bother to air it. They could have increased their ratings on these properties, but didn't.

From this, it is my conclusion that ESPN is simply not trying hard enough.

Though the previous week was more difficult for ESPN to put on multiple playoff games, the truth is, if you include ESPNews and ESPN Classic, there was certainly an added opportunity to televise FCS playoff games on these two channels. In fact, ESPNews televised LaSalle vs. Temple from 12-2.

[Pinnum]

From this, it is my conclusion that ESPN is simply not trying hard enough.


You think ESPN is not maximizing their profitability on their inventory?

That is possible. If true, the other sports networks will begin to increase their market share and they will soon acquire the rights to neglected inventory.

Time will tell...

For the record, the Wichita State vs Detroit game captured a 0.1 rating with 88k average viewers on ESPNU and was used to draw in viewers for the St Bonaventure at Pitt basketball game that followed. This is due to the ACC contract with ESPN and ESPN's effort to maximize the contract.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You think ESPN is not maximizing their profitability on their inventory?

That is possible. If true, the other sports networks will begin to increase their market share and they will soon acquire the rights to neglected inventory.

Precisely. That's all I'm asking the FCS leadership to consider. And IMVHO I do consider the FCS playoffs "neglected inventory" and I believe a fair number of the people on AGS do as well.

ESPN has been casting off "neglected inventory" for quite a while now and other networks have been gobbling it up. Big East basketball (FS1) and EPL soccer (NBC Sports Network) are two high-profile sports that are examples. Not that I'm saying that the FCS football playoffs are on that same level, but it's more to prove a point that entire business models can be based on assets that ESPN didn't develop.

[Pinnum]

Precisely. That's all I'm asking the FCS leadership to consider. And IMVHO I do consider the FCS playoffs "neglected inventory" and I believe a fair number of the people on AGS do as well.

ESPN has been casting off "neglected inventory" for quite a while now and other networks have been gobbling it up. Big East basketball (FS1) and EPL soccer (NBC Sports Network) are two high-profile sports that are examples. Not that I'm saying that the FCS football playoffs are on that same level, but it's more to prove a point that entire business models can be based on assets that ESPN didn't develop.

The problem is no one watches FS1. The Big East ratings are horrible. The Big East Conference Championship game between Villanova and Xavier was played in a primetime slot and watched by only 414,000. All this despite the Big East Conference having a presence in major markets with great name recognition as a conference and as individual members. The game was likely only watched by those that would go out of their way to watch the game anyways.

For comparison, the America East Championship between Stony Brook and Albany was watched by 331,000 on ESPN2 in a morning tip-off. Other conferences that that Big East should have better ratings than for a championship game are the Atlantic 10 (1,5597,000) and the American Athletic Conference (1,554,000). Also notable that the viewership was a drop of 88% from the 2012 Big East Championship on ESPN.

When you start actually looking at the ratings you see that people don't watch these other networks. They paid big money for the inventory because they needed things that would attract the loyal fans and they are getting the loyal Big East fans but they are not getting the general sports fans. That will likely change as time passes but as of right now ratings will likely be a lot lower if moved to FS1.

[DFW HOYA]

ESPN has been casting off "neglected inventory" for quite a while now and other networks have been gobbling it up. Big East basketball (FS1) and EPL soccer (NBC Sports Network) are two high-profile sports that are examples.

Big East basketball wasn't cast off by ESPN.

[Pinnum]

Big East basketball wasn't cast off by ESPN.

That's for sure! Fox paid a TON of money for it in a bidding war.

[DFW HOYA]

The short story of the bid:

1. ESPN had first right of refusal to what the Big East (the conference headquartered in Providence) would get on the market. It offered $180M per year ($2.4M per school if it did not play I-A football, $13.8M if it did). Mark Nordenberg, chancellor of Pitt, chaired the committee which recommended the Big East turn down the deal. (Funny that, given that he was also in talks with the ACC without the knowledge of the other parties...)

2. NBC was prepared to offer $200-250M a year, but ESPN directed Syracuse and Pitt to join the ACC where it held the media rights at $16M per school per year.

3. In December, seven Big East schools announced they was leaving but ESPN apparently didn't notice that they didn't have anywhere to go and didn't see fit to offer them a deal.

4. With a vastly depleted product, NBC dropped its bid from $200 million a year to $20 million ($1.8 per school) to Big East R.I. (now AAC). ESPN gladly exercises its right of refusal and saves about $160 million.

4. The seven basketball schools incorporate in N.Y. and unbenowst to ESPN, buy the name, history and MSG rights from the AAC for TV credits which would have otherwise been tied up in litigation. As it is a new company, ESPN does not have a right of first refusal on Fox's $500 million, 12 year offer.

Bottom line:
-- Georgetown, Villanova, et al. went from $2.4M per year (original bid) to $4.2M (Fox)
-- Butler and Xavier went from $150K (A-10) to to $4.2M (Fox)
-- Syracuse and Pitt went from $13.8M (original bid) to $16M in the ACC.
-- UConn, USF, and Cincinnati went from $13.8M (original bid) to just $1.8M in the AAC.
-- Fox gets lots of content for its new network.
-- ESPN gets more viewers for the ACC but still is angry over letting the MSG tournament rights get sold to Fox.
-- The AAC gets second class status.
-- NBC remains on the fringe in major college basketball.

[FargoBison]

I think moving to Fox would be great, Fox is really the only viable alternative since they have the means to televise the games on multiple networks. You could have early round games games on regional networks or Fox college sports...bump it up to FS1 or FS2 and maybe even put the title game on the main Fox channel if ratings demanded it.

The main problem with ESPN is they have so much inventory. Multiple college conferences, basically all of the bowls and then there is the NBA. I think ESPN doesn't really value the FCS playoffs at all, they don't need the FCS and it is probably more important to give attention to more important conferences or leagues. Maybe Fox would, when bowl season starts they have nothing in regards to football. The FCS could fill that void.

I don't really care if ratings take a hit, I would rather have a more coverage. ESPN is doing a lousy job at it.

[Pinnum]

I think moving to Fox would be great, Fox is really the only viable alternative since they have the means to televise the games on multiple networks. You could have early round games games on regional networks or Fox college sports...bump it up to FS1 or FS2 and maybe even put the title game on the main Fox channel if ratings demanded it.

The main problem with ESPN is they have so much inventory. Multiple college conferences, basically all of the bowls and then there is the NBA. I think ESPN doesn't really value the FCS playoffs at all, they don't need the FCS and it is probably more important to give attention to more important conferences or leagues. Maybe Fox would, when bowl season starts they have nothing in regards to football. The FCS could fill that void.

I don't really care if ratings take a hit, I would rather have a more coverage. ESPN is doing a lousy job at it.

That's fair.

Sometimes energizing the fans you already have can be a better strategy than expanding to meet the general fan. I think ESPN is better from a marketing standpoint but I could see strengthening the FCS rivalries and building more fan interest in the teams eliminated in the first and second round from an expanded TV contract.

What is better 5M people watching a combined 5 games on ESPN networks or 4M people watching a combined 10 games on FS1? There is likely to be less unique viewers with FS1 in addition to total viewers but may make some more FCS fans even more rabid which will allow them to become influencers which may build the fan base further.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with looking to go another way but I do think ESPN has been the best network for distribution and market penetration. But I admit there is the possibility that if you sacrifice a few years it will pay off down the road. My one concern is that FCS keeps developing fan bases just to watch them graduate to FBS and it never really helps the group in the manner it was intended.

[dbackjon]

The NCAA does an abysmal job with the playoffs. Robs the schools that actually pack in fans blind, doesn't do a thing to promote it, TV deal is lackluster....it is a joke.

Would love to see the top of the FCS and G5 merge and do their own thing.


If you want to play with the G5 - go FBS. They don't want to be associated with FCS, so good luck with that.

What do you want them to do? They put on the playoffs, cover travel costs, etc. Without the playoffs put on by the NCAA, no one would have heard of NDSU. So quit yer bitchin. The NCAA owes NDSU nothing - on the contrary, NDSU should be happy that the schools that have been IAA/FCS for the decades before NDSU moved up from DII were around and had the foresight to set up the playoffs and grow them.

[FargoBison]

If you want to play with the G5 - go FBS. They don't want to be associated with FCS, so good luck with that.

What do you want them to do? They put on the playoffs, cover travel costs, etc. Without the playoffs put on by the NCAA, no one would have heard of NDSU. So quit yer bitchin. The NCAA owes NDSU nothing - on the contrary, NDSU should be happy that the schools that have been IAA/FCS for the decades before NDSU moved up from DII were around and had the foresight to set up the playoffs and grow them.

The G5 might face a reality sometime that they can't keep pace with the P5, that could open their minds in the future. Not saying it will happen tomorrow but down the road who knows.

As for the NCAA, I don't think they do a great job with the playoffs. I never said they owed NDSU a damn thing, I never asked for anything but more coverage and promotion of the playoffs throughout this entire thread. As for NDSU being nothing without the NCAA FCS playoffs, give a break with that BS. Our FBS wins have given us just as much exposure as the playoff games.

I don't think NDSU should be happy that a lot of the schools that built the FCS have left. I want schools to stick around, I want to grow the FCS playoffs but if the NCAA doesn't make it a priority nothing will change. They run the playoffs, not NDSU or the MVFC or anyone else. The buck stops with them.

[number1]

The short story of the bid:

1. ESPN had first right of refusal to what the Big East (the conference headquartered in Providence) would get on the market. It offered $180M per year ($2.4M per school if it did not play I-A football, $13.8M if it did). Mark Nordenberg, chancellor of Pitt, chaired the committee which recommended the Big East turn down the deal. (Funny that, given that he was also in talks with the ACC without the knowledge of the other parties...)

2. NBC was prepared to offer $200-250M a year, but ESPN directed Syracuse and Pitt to join the ACC where it held the media rights at $16M per school per year.

3. In December, seven Big East schools announced they was leaving but ESPN apparently didn't notice that they didn't have anywhere to go and didn't see fit to offer them a deal.

4. With a vastly depleted product, NBC dropped its bid from $200 million a year to $20 million ($1.8 per school) to Big East R.I. (now AAC). ESPN gladly exercises its right of refusal and saves about $160 million.

4. The seven basketball schools incorporate in N.Y. and unbenowst to ESPN, buy the name, history and MSG rights from the AAC for TV credits which would have otherwise been tied up in litigation. As it is a new company, ESPN does not have a right of first refusal on Fox's $500 million, 12 year offer.

Bottom line:
-- Georgetown, Villanova, et al. went from $2.4M per year (original bid) to $4.2M (Fox)
-- Butler and Xavier went from $150K (A-10) to to $4.2M (Fox)
-- Syracuse and Pitt went from $13.8M (original bid) to $16M in the ACC.
-- UConn, USF, and Cincinnati went from $13.8M (original bid) to just $1.8M in the AAC.
-- Fox gets lots of content for its new network.
-- ESPN gets more viewers for the ACC but still is angry over letting the MSG tournament rights get sold to Fox.
-- The AAC gets second class status.
-- NBC remains on the fringe in major college basketball.
Wow, UCONN, USF, and Cincy got messed over.

[centennial]

That's fair.

Sometimes energizing the fans you already have can be a better strategy than expanding to meet the general fan. I think ESPN is better from a marketing standpoint but I could see strengthening the FCS rivalries and building more fan interest in the teams eliminated in the first and second round from an expanded TV contract.

What is better 5M people watching a combined 5 games on ESPN networks or 4M people watching a combined 10 games on FS1? There is likely to be less unique viewers with FS1 in addition to total viewers but may make some more FCS fans even more rabid which will allow them to become influencers which may build the fan base further.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with looking to go another way but I do think ESPN has been the best network for distribution and market penetration. But I admit there is the possibility that if you sacrifice a few years it will pay off down the road. My one concern is that FCS keeps developing fan bases just to watch them graduate to FBS and it never really helps the group in the manner it was intended.
Best case scenario would be ESPN promoting more games. I am not sure I see that happening. No one else has the kind of reach as ESPN. Fox would not even come close.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Wow, UCONN, USF, and Cincy got messed over.

I think they are getting significant money for the next couple of years from the old Big East shares and other settlement funds, but that will eventually dry up. Then the reality of the AAC's television contract hits home.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hopefully the news of ESPN and Bill Simmons parting ways will finally put an end to the idea that brains are always behind business decisions in Bristol.

[superman7515]

A few people might want to look into this... xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVWD4AcKw5M

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I want to grow the FCS playoffs but if the NCAA doesn't make it a priority nothing will change.

xthumbsupx

[walliver]

Most FCS schools draw an average attendance between 5,000 to 15,000. In 2014, 10 schools drew more than 15K, and a whopping 38 drew below 5K per game. Playoff attendance at many schools is even lower than regular season attendance. Of the 10 schools drawing over 15K, 3 do not participate in the playoffs. Unless the 7 remaining large attendance schools are seeded in the playoffs, FCS playoff attendance is going to be low - promotion isn't going to change that. The NCAA and ESPN don't actively promote the FCS playoffs because the fanbase just isn't there. The only way this is going to change is if advertisers begin demanding time on FCS broadcasts, and that isn't likely to happen unless the Ivy League and the SWAC choose to participate.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

A few people might want to look into this... xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVWD4AcKw5M

FYI...

The racism agent in this skit (Billy Sorrells) is a Texas Southern alum and lived across the street from me before moving to Los Angeles.

[BisonFan02]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iCd6UHR-3I

[BluBengal07]

this inaugural game will be interesting.