In the College Football Playoff Era, Is It Time to Ban FCS Opponents?

[centennial]

Not sure if he is trying to insult FCS schools or Baylor.. I still don't see this coming true. The SOS for P5 is good enough to get them into CFP without dropping FCS.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2399645-in-the-college-football-playoff-era-is-it-time-to-ban-fcs-opponents

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think it is. There's simply no reason for the P5 team to continue to schedule FCS teams. The fans/alums who are paying ridiculous prices for tickets and parking don't want these games. There's plenty of quasi-FCS teams bumbling around in the G5 these days to schedule on home coming. Sure they might cost more but in the grand scheme of things we're talking a small amount of money.

I think ultimately it will happen which will benefit both levels. Play your peers!!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The article is spot on. The difference between a FBS and FCS team is much more than the "B" and the "C". I agree that a more nuanced approach to these games is needed.

The Power 5 is a joke. Iowa State and Kansas are Power 5 teams.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The article is spot on. The difference between a FBS and FCS team is much more than the "B" and the "C". I agree that a more nuanced approach to these games is needed.

The Power 5 is a joke. Iowa State and Kansas are Power 5 teams.

They are definitely power 5 teams. On the field success is only a small part of it. There's always going to be good teams, middling teams and bad teams. The Jayhawks and Cyclones just happen to fall into the bad teams category more often than not. Even so, Kansas has won a major bowl game and finished with a Top 10 ranking in the last 10 years. That's still more than 75% of the P5 can say.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

There is a reason P5 teams play G5 and FCS teams. It's not out of the goodness of their hearts. The top P5 programs have good enough conference schedules that their non-conference schedule doesn't matter. The lesser P5s aren't going to plan their schedule around the possibility of a playoff spot.

The only way FCS games will be banned is if fans of the major schools vote with their wallet. And that's not going to happen any time soon.

[bonarae]

Hmm, the P5 have more than enough G5 teams available for scheduling. Let the G5 continue to schedule FCS teams. However, P5 vs. FCS should be more like every once in a while, not every other year or so.

[DFW HOYA]

People don't want to hear it, the direction is clear.

P5 wil schedule P5 teams wherever possible and will be "encouraged" by ESPN to do so for strength of schedule.

G5 teams will schedule down to I-AA for guarantee games but focus on G5 teams.

[OSBF]

I think it is. There's simply no reason for the P5 team to continue to schedule FCS teams. The fans/alums who are paying ridiculous prices for tickets and parking don't want these games. There's plenty of quasi-FCS teams bumbling around in the G5 these days to schedule on home coming. Sure they might cost more but in the grand scheme of things we're talking a small amount of money.

I think ultimately it will happen which will benefit both levels. Play your peers!!

SPOT ON

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Can we all stop pretending the "P5" that has the slightest chance of making this phony playoff is more than about 12 teams TOTAL?

The Purdue's and Oregon States of the world are still going to need to make bowl games to think that their season is a success. That means getting "easy" wins on the schedule.

[frozennorth]

Threads like this are why ndsu needs to move up soon.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Had the Big XII had a championship game, either Baylor or TCU would have gotten the final spot. That had so much more to do with their snub than "schedule strength" or scheduling FCS teams.

Nothing would have helped Baylor's "schedule strength" more than having a win over TCU for the Big XII championship. Much more than scheduling, say, 2-10 Indiana over Incarnate Word.

Nothing to see here.

[mainejeff]

Sorry but I'll take $750K and games at BC and Tulane anyday over meaningless games vs. Bryant, Central Connecticut, Monmouth, etc, etc...... or even worse.......some D2 school.

[dgtw]

A lot of FCS schools would not be able to keep going if not for the annual FBS pay days.


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[FargoBison]

Threads like this are why ndsu needs to move up soon.

Completely agree.

NDSU belongs with the G5 if this is the future of the FCS.

[IBleedYellow]

Threads like this are why ndsu needs to move up soon.

You do that. I'll be waiting to see the results.

[FargoBison]

A lot of FCS schools would not be able to keep going if not for the annual FBS pay days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, programs will either fold or there will be a push to cut scholarships across the FCS. Probably both.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Really failing to see how P5 scheduling more games with themselves makes the G5 any more attractive a proposition. In fact, P5 teams want FCS home games because 1) they're guaranteed home games, 2) they come cheaper than G5 games, and 3) they keep the price down for guarantees, because when negotiating with a G5 team for a home game, the P5 school can just say "well, Indiana State wants to play that same weekend, and their guarantee demands are only $200K..."

[centennial]

Why FCS games would not go away for the near future-
- 1 FCS game counts and outside of maybe 20 teams(they want the NC) everyone else wants to make some kind of bowl game
- FCS games are cheaper
- G5 prices are through the roof, an extra $500k+ every season gives the teams more money to spend on recruiting, equipment etc.
- Only the top P5 teams are profitable, most of them work on student, state subsidies
- Beating a good FCS team is still better than beating Florida Atlantic, Eastern Michigan et al..
For FCS fans- we get to experience big time football, have a chance at upsetting a higher level team, chance to travel, and some FCS schools really need the money.

[Hood]

If not for FCS games some people would never get to go to P5 games. I have to chuckle every time my Facebook feed is flooded with friends at the FCS @ LSU game. I comment every time (because I'm a butt), "Yeah, you're only able to get tickets because no one that understands football wants to see a drubbing." (Would like to see some FCS team knock them off, but I digress)

[Twentysix]

If not for FCS games some people would never get to go to P5 games. I have to chuckle every time my Facebook feed is flooded with friends at the FCS @ LSU game. I comment every time (because I'm a butt), "Yeah, you're only able to get tickets because no one that understands football wants to see a drubbing." (Would like to see some FCS team knock them off, but I digress)

Get them on the schedule ;)

[walliver]

I get tired of these repetitive threads.

Basically, big-time college fans want to see games against other big-time teams. ESPN wants big-time matchups every week. The fans of the big-time programs know that ULL, ULM, Directional Michigan, UNCC, F?U and Nevada are not big-time programs and would be hard pressed to justify how playing these teams over FCS teams is any real improvement.

Most of these arguments are created by G5 fans who hope to drive out FCS teams and reduce competition for FBS games and hopefully get more money.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I get tired of these repetitive threads.

Basically, big-time college fans want to see games against other big-time teams. ESPN wants big-time matchups every week. The fans of the big-time programs know that ULL, ULM, Directional Michigan, UNCC, F?U and Nevada are not big-time programs and would be hard pressed to justify how playing these teams over FCS teams is any real improvement.

Most of these arguments are created by G5 fans who hope to drive out FCS teams and reduce competition for FBS games and hopefully get more money.

The trouble is the P5 proposals are coming up with drivel like TCU/Colorado and Stanford/Vanderbilt (two actual series announced this week), which pretty much quelches the argument that this is about "big-time matchups" suitable for a week of hype on ESPN. It's about keeping the money in the family and reducing out-of-conference opporunitities for non-P5 teams. Unfortunately for the G5, the math dictates that they are still much bigger losers in this game than FCS, because it is much more likely that Cal is giving up, say, a home-and-home with San Jose State rather than home games vs. UC Davis and Cal Poly (which was also announced this week).

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The trouble is the P5 proposals are coming up with drivel like TCU/Colorado and Stanford/Vanderbilt (two actual series announced this week), which pretty much quelches the argument that this is about "big-time matchups" suitable for a week of hype on ESPN. It's about keeping the money in the family and reducing out-of-conference opporunitities for non-P5 teams.

Obviously SU-VU and TCU-CU aren't going to be prime time ESPN1 games, but those games will take TV priority over most games that involve at least one G5 team.

I feel pretty sure ESPN salivates at the thought of more P5-P5 non-conference games created by fiat.

The problem (I would think) comes in that TV money is split across conferences and I would think for non-conference games what the schools get to take home gets diluted even more.

Like I said, as long as upper-level P5s can make millions from playing FCS and G5 schools and as long as lower-level P5s can continue to get bowl bids off of G5 and FCS games nothing will change.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Obviously SU-VU and TCU-CU aren't going to be prime time ESPN1 games, but those games will take TV priority over most games that involve at least one G5 team.

I feel pretty sure ESPN salivates at the thought of more P5-P5 non-conference games created by fiat.

ESPN will be in for a rotten surprise, then, when people still don't care, the games are played in more empty stadiums than usual, and the TV ratings barely budge. Nobody gives a flying tart about Stanford/Vandy except Stanford fans wondering whether the Cardinal will beat them 35-0, 42-0, or perhaps if they give up a late touchdown to help the Commodores cover the 42 point spread. As for Vandy fans spending their hard-earned cash to fly out to Palo Alto, good luck with that.

And ESPN probably won't be carrying the game, I'm guessing - it will be the Pac-12 Network, which would get the same Stanford fans watching the game as if it were Stanford/UC Davis playing. What are the odds that Vandy fans will be calling their cable TV providers to carry the Pac 12 Network for one, singular, likely humiliating loss vs. Stanford? Few, if any.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

ESPN will be in for a rotten surprise, then, when people still don't care, the games are played in more empty stadiums than usual, and the TV ratings barely budge. Nobody gives a flying tart about Stanford/Vandy except Stanford fans wondering whether the Cardinal will beat them 35-0, 42-0, or perhaps if they give up a late touchdown to help the Commodores cover the 42 point spread. As for Vandy fans spending their hard-earned cash to fly out to Palo Alto, good luck with that.

And ESPN probably won't be carrying the game, I'm guessing - it will be the Pac-12 Network, which would get the same Stanford fans watching the game as if it were Stanford/UC Davis playing. What are the odds that Vandy fans will be calling their cable TV providers to carry the Pac 12 Network for one, singular, likely humiliating loss vs. Stanford? Few, if any.

You are absolutely right that having more P5-P5 games doesn't mean they'll all be on TV. I just think ESPN would like to have more options and in most cases would prefer to televise these type of games over MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt conference games.

But yeah, that's another reason why a ban on FCS opponents won't happen. I think it would benefit ESPN, but it's a bad deal for P5 teams. The chance for Vanderbilt and Purdue to get more Thursday night games just won't cut it for them.

[Herder]

Hmm, the P5 have more than enough G5 teams available for scheduling. Let the G5 continue to schedule FCS teams. However, P5 vs. FCS should be more like every once in a while, not every other year or so.

You are forgetting the "Wins" equation when you say that P5s should only play G5s. When your objective is a Win, playing FCS gives most P5s a better W opportunity. Likewise, some G5s want no part of an embarrassing FCS L.

[dgtw]

If FBS teams only played FBS teams, would it be mathematically possible for all of them to play a full 12 game schedule? Taking into account how many non-conference games everyone plays.


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[Go...gate]

Sorry but I'll take $750K and games at BC and Tulane any day over meaningless games vs. Bryant, Central Connecticut, Monmouth, etc, etc...... or even worse.......some D2 school.

Amen.

[Go Green]

Sorry but I'll take $750K and games at BC and Tulane anyday over meaningless games vs. Bryant, Central Connecticut, Monmouth, etc, etc...... or even worse.......some D2 school.

Really?

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/092014aaa.html

[Sitting Bull]

Really?

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/092014aaa.html

Yes, really.

I dont really care about the dollar amount - but the basic point, playing UVA, NC State or Va Tech once a year - is far preferable to adding one more FCS OOC.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Sorry but I'll take $750K and games at BC and Tulane anyday over meaningless games vs. Bryant, Central Connecticut, Monmouth, etc, etc...... or even worse.......some D2 school.

You do realize how hypocritical that statement is?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yes, really.

I dont really care about the dollar amount - but the basic point, playing UVA, NC State or Va Tech once a year - is far preferable to adding one more FCS OOC.

I think it's hilarious how some fans don't like OOC games against their peers and would rather lose a game against a non-peer. The Tribe are FCS for a reason! You had a chance at big-time football and decided against it. Play your peers.

[Go Green]

Yes, really.

I dont really care about the dollar amount - but the basic point, playing UVA, NC State or Va Tech once a year - is far preferable to adding one more FCS OOC.

Suit yourself. http://www.hokiesports.com/football/recaps/20140830aaa.html

But I acknowledge that at first, I wasn't enthusiastic about playing NEC teams.

And then they beat us. Twice.

Now I want to kick their asses.

[frozennorth]

I think it's hilarious how some fans don't like OOC games against their peers and would rather lose a game against a non-peer. The Tribe are FCS for a reason! You had a chance at big-time football and decided against it. Play your peers.

some of us don't beleive that divisional classification should limit the quality of football played or the type of challenges given to their programs. You have a D2 mindset.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

some of us don't beleive that divisional classification should limit the quality of football played or the type of challenges given to their programs. You have a D2 mindset.

It's more of a FCS fan with a FBS mindset.

I see FCS fans knock D2 games but tout the greatness of FBS contests. It works both ways....

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It's more of a FCS fan with a FBS mindset.

I see FCS fans knock D2 games but tout the greatness of FBS contests. It works both ways....

The Gulf between FCS and DII is immensely greater than FCS/FBS. Even just talking about schollys the difference between 85 and 63 isn't a bad as 63 and 36.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The Gulf between FCS and DII is immensely greater than FCS/FBS. Even just talking about schollys the difference between 85 and 63 isn't a bad as 63 and 36.

I disagree with that. The gap from the SEC to the MVFC is FAR FAR greater than that of the MVFC than the best D2 leagues. From facilities, to alumni donations, coaching salaries etc..

[DFW HOYA]

The Gulf between FCS and DII is immensely greater than FCS/FBS. Even just talking about schollys the difference between 85 and 63 isn't a bad as 63 and 36.

Or even 60 vs. 0...

[centennial]

I disagree with that. The gap from the SEC to the MVFC is FAR FAR greater than that of the MVFC than the best D2 leagues. From facilities, to alumni donations, coaching salaries etc..
Coaching salaries yes, facilities yes. Level of football- no.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cf2014&c=1

[Go...gate]

Suit yourself. http://www.hokiesports.com/football/recaps/20140830aaa.html

But I acknowledge that at first, I wasn't enthusiastic about playing NEC teams.

And then they beat us. Twice.

Now I want to kick their asses.

Let's be honest. Dartmouth has made a point of watering down their schedule in recent years.

[Go...gate]

You do realize how hypocritical that statement is?

Why is it hypocritical?

[Go...gate]

some of us don't beleive that divisional classification should limit the quality of football played or the type of challenges given to their programs. You have a D2 mindset.

Why not step up against the best possible competition?

[bonarae]

I dont really care about the dollar amount - but the basic point, playing UVA, NC State or Va Tech once a year - is far preferable to adding one more FCS OOC.

I prefer this type of schedule to the current schedule the Ivies are currently playing... xsmhx


I think it's hilarious how some fans don't like OOC games against their peers and would rather lose a game against a non-peer. The Tribe are FCS for a reason! You had a chance at big-time football and decided against it. Play your peers.

Or in other words, the Ivies were "forced" to end their association with that type... xsmhx


some of us don't beleive that divisional classification should limit the quality of football played or the type of challenges given to their programs. You have a D2 mindset.

Him having a D-II mindset? I am not one of them, but I believe that playing down (as some schools do) doesn't give as much of a challenge as an FBS opponent.


It's more of a FCS fan with a FBS mindset.

I see FCS fans knock D2 games but tout the greatness of FBS contests. It works both ways....

This one seals it.


Let's be honest. Dartmouth has made a point of watering down their schedule in recent years.

So did the other Ivies, but the question is - who started the Ivy scheduling watering down trend? Did Harvard begin it?


Why not step up against the best possible competition?

Define "possible competition". Most FCS programs are allowed scheduling against FBS teams, but some of the FBS want to close their doors to us. D-II and D-III teams are only allowed up to 11 and 10 games respectively, and some in D-II and many in D-III have more than enough available competition for them within their division. Some FCS teams play NAIA, USCAA, and even ASCAA games to fill in their schedules, despite some teams needing available FCS competition on those dates. That's the irony of not having regulation.

[Go Green]

Let's be honest. Dartmouth has made a point of watering down their schedule in recent years.

Never said otherwise.

But it seems to have worked. We've gotten a lot more wins both in and out of conference since the downgrading. And winning is fun.

[Go Green]

Why not step up against the best possible competition?

Because its generally no fun losing games 42-7.

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2010/09/time_not_on_its_side_but_syrac.html

We will see how the PL does in the next few years with its FBS games. My guess is that a lot of them will be ugly.

[bonarae]

We will see how the PL does in the next few years with its FBS games. My guess is that a lot of them will be ugly.

I'm afraid it may be but it will guarantee much more national exposure for the PL teams.

- - - Updated - - -


But it seems to have worked. We've gotten a lot more wins both in and out of conference since the downgrading. And winning is fun.

As for Harvard, though, the watering down of the schedule created more unanswerable questions...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Why is it hypocritical?

The fact that he wants to be the little guy reaching for the stars by playing up yet looks down upon D2 schools doing the same thing.....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Why not step up against the best possible competition?

Then move back to FBS!

[Sitting Bull]

I think it's hilarious how some fans don't like OOC games against their peers and would rather lose a game against a non-peer. The Tribe are FCS for a reason! You had a chance at big-time football and decided against it. Play your peers.

Wow, you just totally miss the point.

We are talking one game here. We play 10 FCS games of 11 every year. W&M is perfect for FCS and I like OOC games with other FCS programs - Ivy, Patriot, Southern, etc.

That doesn't mean you should be restricted against a local and traditional rival just because they play FBS. We have played more games in our history against UVA, Tech or NC State than all our games combined against Patriot or Ivy teams. The games are competitive. We beat UVA five years ago by 12 points. There were 57,000 people there, UVA's top gate game of that season. There were near 3,000 Tribe fans there who had a great night and a memory for a lifetime.

[Sitting Bull]

Suit yourself. http://www.hokiesports.com/football/recaps/20140830aaa.html

But I acknowledge that at first, I wasn't enthusiastic about playing NEC teams.

And then they beat us. Twice.

Now I want to kick their asses.

I was at the Tech game. Going into the 4th quarter, it was 20-9.

The previous year we took West Virginia to the wire, losing 24-17.

The year before that, we lost at Maryland 7-6.

In 2009, we beat UVA 26-14. The following year, we lost a late lead to UNC and lost 21-17.

Our history in these games have not been lopsided and the school and fans enjoy them - one each year.

There is no desire to compete full season at this level.

[SUPharmacist]

The fact that he wants to be the little guy reaching for the stars by playing up yet looks down upon D2 schools doing the same thing.....

I don't think anyone is looking down on the D2 schools, I think people are looking down at the FCS schools scheduling them. Still hypocritical if we expect FBS to schedule down, but a different scenario especially comparing the bowl system and limited playoff to the true playoffs you see at the FCS level.

[Go Green]

So did the other Ivies, but the question is - who started the Ivy scheduling watering down trend? Did Harvard begin it?





All Ivies have downgrade schedules at various points in their history--almost always because the games were noncompetitive.

Harvard is really the only example I can think of that downgraded its schedule for no apparent reason.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Wow, you just totally miss the point.

We are talking one game here. We play 10 FCS games of 11 every year. W&M is perfect for FCS and I like OOC games with other FCS programs - Ivy, Patriot, Southern, etc.

That doesn't mean you should be restricted against a local and traditional rival just because they play FBS. We have played more games in our history against UVA, Tech or NC State than all our games combined against Patriot or Ivy teams. The games are competitive. We beat UVA five years ago by 12 points. There were 57,000 people there, UVA's top gate game of that season. There were near 3,000 Tribe fans there who had a great night and a memory for a lifetime.

I understand W&M wanting to play some of their regional FBS foes. Still, you must understand that 80%+ of those FBS fan bases do not want to see their team play a FBS or a D2 team as some would believe the Tribe are. Temple, yes one of dregs of college football, fans complain for the most part about FCS games minus Villanova. There's still a vocal minority that don't want us to play the Wildcats.

I'm not completely against FCS vs FBS games but I'm also not a huge fan. The PL schools don't need "money" so their FBS games will be respectable. What kills me are the complete mis-matches like the annual November SEC FCS homecoming weekend. These games should not be subsidizing broke D1 athletic departments. For once I'd like to see Saban game plan the hell out of their FCS opponent and see what happens. I think a legit Top 5 Alabama team could beat a middling FCS team by 100 with a LSU/Auburn game prep. I also think they could exact a physical pounding that could have lasting effect on the FCS team. I'd like to see it happen but sportsmanship would prevent it....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

People forget that the difference between D-II and D-I isn't just number of football scholarships. It's spending on athletic programs, overall facilities, athlete academic support... FCS is a lot more similar to FBS (yes, even the "schools with a waterfall in the locker room" schools) than D-II to D-I schools. In fact, that gulf is why the Dayton Rule exists.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

People forget that the difference between D-II and D-I isn't just number of football scholarships. It's spending on athletic programs, overall facilities, athlete academic support... FCS is a lot more similar to FBS (yes, even the "schools with a waterfall in the locker room" schools) than D-II to D-I schools. In fact, that gulf is why the Dayton Rule exists.

I'd like to see the stats that support that argument. The athletic budgets of the P5 dwarf the better FCS conferences. Only the PL and IL can likely keep it respectable against the MWC and AAC. Does the entire Southland Conference's budget equal that of Texas or Texas A&M?

Montana State football facilities feel like IUP or West Chester. Not Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State or Notre Dame. Likewise with Lehigh, Colgate, Towson, Delaware, UNH, NDSU, Albany etc.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd like to see the stats that support that argument. The athletic budgets of the P5 dwarf the better FCS conferences. Only the PL and IL can likely keep it respectable against the MWC and AAC. Does the entire Southland Conference's budget equal that of Texas or Texas A&M?

Montana State football facilities feel like IUP or West Chester. Not Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State or Notre Dame. Likewise with Lehigh, Colgate, Towson, Delaware, UNH, NDSU, Albany etc.

https://www.udayton.edu/education/_resources/img/featurebrands/hss/wellnes2.jpg

http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnfull/20141219/165562

http://www.hastingschivetta.com/assets/U-of-Dayton-RecPlex-square-07-460x460.jpg

To keep up with trends for modern recreation and fitness facilities, the University of Dayton has completed a 129,540-square-foot Fitness and Recreation Complex, nicknamed the “RecPlex.”

http://schooldesigns.com/Project-Details.aspx?Project_ID=2545


http://schooldesigns.com/Portals/0/SD_Images/Projects/608asu118e.jpg

Are these D-II facilities? You tell me.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

How about the simple one, number of scholarships?

FBS: 85 full scholarships
FCS: 63 spread among 85 players (see that D-I commonality?)
D-II: 36 scholarships (which I assume can be partials)

How many of the D-II schools even fund the full 36? I've always heard most of the PA schools don't, is that true? If so, that makes the gulf even wider between FCS and D-II!

The fact that most FBS schools don't want to play FCS schools is part of the national media spread ignorance that makes them think we're D-II. I've attended every UNH game against an FBS school except one since 2004 and the entitlement feeling by most of the fan bases was sickening. It was incredible watching MAC school's fans act like they were a P5 powerhouse just because they had 22 more scholarships. I doubt too many people at Ball State or Central Michigan feel that way any longer because they've had multiple games with FCS schools that shot down their superiority complex. Yes, they had the advantage of more scholarships, bigger stadiums, slightly higher budgets, etc., but there wasn't a huge talent gap on the gridiron. Now games with Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Ohio State, etc. are another story. Then again GA Southern did beat Florida. Having experienced UNH's wins over Rutgers and Northwestern, I can imagine that GaSoU fans would endure 9 losses in 10 years to get that one win.

[PAllen]

I don't see the hypocrisy. I hate it when schools schedule down, but love when they schedule up. It's all a matter of perspective. I think that it's not a good thing for the higher tier school and it's a downright embarrassment for the Alabamas and LSUs of the world. However, it's a great thing for the lower tier school when it's a regional and/or traditional opponent. IMO, the West Chester/UD thing was a good thing for West Chester while it was a bad thing for UD. The same with the Navy/UD games, except that this time, it's a good/great thing for UD while being a bad thing for Navy. I'm thrilled that Lehigh is playing Navy, but hate it when Purdue plays FCS midwest state of the year. If I were a fan of said FCS school, I would love it.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

https://www.udayton.edu/education/_resources/img/featurebrands/hss/wellnes2.jpg

http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnfull/20141219/165562

http://www.hastingschivetta.com/assets/U-of-Dayton-RecPlex-square-07-460x460.jpg

To keep up with trends for modern recreation and fitness facilities, the University of Dayton has completed a 129,540-square-foot Fitness and Recreation Complex, nicknamed the “RecPlex.”

http://schooldesigns.com/Project-Details.aspx?Project_ID=2545


http://schooldesigns.com/Portals/0/SD_Images/Projects/608asu118e.jpg

Are these D-II facilities? You tell me.

Dayton is in the A10 for athletics EXCEPT football. Their hoops program receives tremendous support from both the university and community. Dayton as a whole has very little in common with most FCS programs. Why don't you mention Butler's Big East facilities? Either way, I think GVSU matches up quite well.

Grand Valley State
http://www.mattmitchellgvsu.com/wp-content/gallery/lubbers-stadium/gvsu-aerial-75.jpg


Rec Center
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/grva/graphics/auto/reccourts.jpg

Indoor Practice Facility....
http://www.erhardtcc.com/erhardt/media/ErhardtMedia/ProjectImages/Large/GVSU-Kelly-Family-Sports-Center-Interior-1-Allendale,-MI-Erhardt-Construction.jpg?width=630&height=419&ext=.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Dayton is in the A10 for athletics EXCEPT football. Their hoops program receives tremendous support from both the university and community. Dayton as a whole has very little in common with most FCS programs. Why don't you mention Butler's Big East facilities? Either way, I think GVSU matches up quite well.

They do, but the point here is A-10 schools and Big East schools have FCS programs, and their training facilities more resemble the P5 training facilities than most of what D-II provides.

GVSU is a case unique in and of itself, as is Wisconsin-Whitewater. There is an EXCELLENT case to be made that they are not among peers and should almost be forced to reclassify upwards, large state schools that more resemble D-I schools.

[FargoBison]

GVSU is the exception not the rule....kind of like NDSU, JMU and Montana in the FCS.

[bonarae]

People forget that the difference between D-II and D-I isn't just number of football scholarships. It's spending on athletic programs, overall facilities, athlete academic support... FCS is a lot more similar to FBS (yes, even the "schools with a waterfall in the locker room" schools) than D-II to D-I schools. In fact, that gulf is why the Dayton Rule exists.

Hmm, can you compare the average budgets of the following: FBS, FCS, non-football D-I, D-II football, non-football D-II, D-III football, and non-football D-III? That'll nail the argument.


I don't see the hypocrisy. I hate it when schools schedule down, but love when they schedule up. It's all a matter of perspective. I think that it's not a good thing for the higher tier school and it's a downright embarrassment for the Alabamas and LSUs of the world. However, it's a great thing for the lower tier school when it's a regional and/or traditional opponent. IMO, the West Chester/UD thing was a good thing for West Chester while it was a bad thing for UD. The same with the Navy/UD games, except that this time, it's a good/great thing for UD while being a bad thing for Navy. I'm thrilled that Lehigh is playing Navy, but hate it when Purdue plays FCS midwest state of the year. If I were a fan of said FCS school, I would love it.

Compromise, compromise...


The fact that most FBS schools don't want to play FCS schools is part of the national media spread ignorance that makes them think we're D-II. I've attended every UNH game against an FBS school except one since 2004 and the entitlement feeling by most of the fan bases was sickening. It was incredible watching MAC school's fans act like they were a P5 powerhouse just because they had 22 more scholarships. I doubt too many people at Ball State or Central Michigan feel that way any longer because they've had multiple games with FCS schools that shot down their superiority complex. Yes, they had the advantage of more scholarships, bigger stadiums, slightly higher budgets, etc., but there wasn't a huge talent gap on the gridiron. Now games with Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Ohio State, etc. are another story. Then again GA Southern did beat Florida. Having experienced UNH's wins over Rutgers and Northwestern, I can imagine that GaSoU fans would endure 9 losses in 10 years to get that one win.

We don't understand and we might not get to understand why FBS fans have always belittled us FCS fans. Superiority complex, I believe?


They do, but the point here is A-10 schools and Big East schools have FCS programs, and their training facilities more resemble the P5 training facilities than most of what D-II provides.

GVSU is a case unique in and of itself, as is Wisconsin-Whitewater. There is an EXCELLENT case to be made that they are not among peers and should almost be forced to reclassify upwards, large state schools that more resemble D-I schools.

First paragraph: First scrap the Dayton rule, and we'll see what'll happen to the smaller schools... xrulesx

Second paragraph: GVSU and UWW are content with what they are in now, as some of their programs have down years in their divisions too. But UWW should really move up to D-II first. (Even their bowling program is competitive with Neb and Vandy right now.)

[AmsterBison]

We don't understand and we might not get to understand why FBS fans have always belittled us FCS fans. Superiority complex, I believe?

Why should we care what these FCS-belittling FBS fans think? College football fanbases are almost all regional - win your market and everything else is gravy.

There is a lot of intra-FBS belittlement going on.
\

[DeltaDevil662]

Because its generally no fun losing games 42-7.

No one will convince me it's more fun to win 49-14 against a D2 opponent than getting the starters pulled on you in a 42-0 game against a FBS opponent at the start of the 3rd Quarter. The same disdain some people on here show for D2 opponents the FBS schools show towards us.

I know players don't care and want to play against who is on the schedule but everyone else does.

As far as the question posed in the title of the thread, wait until a team is left off because they played UNI while another team played NIU. The SEC can get away with it now because of the rep of the league but it's going to happen sooner than later (and that will force them to go to 8 teams)

[DFW HOYA]

They do, but the point here is A-10 schools and Big East schools have FCS programs, and their training facilities more resemble the P5 training facilities than most of what D-II provides.

Not for a couple of years. Georgetown training shares a walled off space in the campus rec center.

http://www.guhoyas.com/ot/strength_facilities_equipment.html

[Bisonwinagn]

People don't want to hear it, the direction is clear.

P5 wil schedule P5 teams wherever possible and will be "encouraged" by ESPN to do so for strength of schedule.

G5 teams will schedule down to I-AA for guarantee games but focus on G5 teams.

Let me clarify. It's strength of TV ratings. There is absolutely no impact on a teams ability to make the playoff it plays an FCS or MAC school. Non conference games are irrelevant to P5 schools and if I was an AD I wouldn't schedule a game that I probably lose.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let me clarify. It's strength of TV ratings. There is absolutely no impact on a teams ability to make the playoff it plays an FCS or MAC school. Non conference games are irrelevant to P5 schools and if I was an AD I wouldn't schedule a game that I probably lose.

Nice try. 2012 Lehigh went 10-1 with 10 wins against FCS competition. They stayed at home. Wofford "played a FBS team tough" and made the playoffs.

[Bisonwinagn]

Nice try. 2012 Lehigh went 10-1 with 10 wins against FCS competition. They stayed at home. Wofford "played a FBS team tough" and made the playoffs.

That's like comparing Boise State to Alabama. Apples to Oranges.

[Seawolf97]

Personally I'm happy with our future games against Toledo, Temple and USF . I can see us playing more MAC teams , maybe a service academy or an ACC team going forward.

[Catatonic]

FBS schools have a record of 2028-423-18 (.824) vs. FCS schools (through 2013). Most FCS wins come against G5 opponents, disproportionately from the lower tier G5 conferences such as the Sun Belt and Mid-America. Wins against p5 schools are rare, and wins vs good teams from the better G5 conferences are almost as rare.

Such games make economic sense for P5 schools but do little to generate fan interest from P5 school season ticket holders. FCS school fans seem to like the idea of playing up, for sure. Abilene just announced a future game against Baylor (2018) and our fans are already talking up the game and making plans to attend. I agree with the previous poster who said that no changes are likely unless FCS games are dropped as counters by a vote of P5 schools.

[kperk014]

I know we aren't a typical D2 program but North Alabama is .500 against FCS and 1-0 against FBS in the modern era and should have and would have moved up 20 years ago if not for hosting the D2 National Championship Game for 28 years. We average 9,000 to 12,000 fans per game which is more in tune with mid-level FCS. The Lions last three games against FCS were a last minute three point loss at Youngstown State during their back-to-back National Championship run, a solid win over a play-off bound Jacksonville State and a double overtime loss to the Gamecocks in 2013. There's not that much difference in front line talent between good FCS and good D2 and on a given Saturday, North Alabama or similar D2 teams can give top FCS schools all they want and sometimes win, as evidenced by Colorado-Pueblo's pounding of Sam Houston this past season. Could D2 do that every week. No. Attrition would quickly take it's toll and with no one to fill in for the injured it would be all over.

I've always been an outspoken proponent of moving up but I'm not so sure anymore. The future of FCS is largely unknown because so, so many programs are at the mercy of whatever the big boys decide to do. Ever since the inception of Title IX that says a school has to spend an equal amount on sports that draw only mothers and daddies, it's put a major strain on the revenue producing sports. Without at least one big pay day per season, I'm not sure moving up would be worth it financially. Having grown up during the years when UNA played Jacksonville State, Troy, UT-Martin, Southeastern La, Nichols State and Alabama A&M, there's still a strong desire to go back to playing with the schools we were more closely associated with.

[BisonFan02]

I know we aren't a typical D2 program but North Alabama is .500 against FCS and 1-0 against FBS in the modern era and should have and would have moved up 20 years ago if not for hosting the D2 National Championship Game for 28 years. We average 9,000 to 12,000 fans per game which is more in tune with mid-level FCS. The Lions last three games against FCS were a last minute three point loss at Youngstown State during their back-to-back National Championship run, a solid win over a play-off bound Jacksonville State and a double overtime loss to the Gamecocks in 2013. There's not that much difference in front line talent between good FCS and good D2 and on a given Saturday, North Alabama or similar D2 teams can give top FCS schools all they want and sometimes win, as evidenced by Colorado-Pueblo's pounding of Sam Houston this past season. Could D2 do that every week. No. Attrition would quickly take it's toll and with no one to fill in for the injured it would be all over.

I've always been an outspoken proponent of moving up but I'm not so sure anymore. The future of FCS is largely unknown because so, so many programs are at the mercy of whatever the big boys decide to do. Ever since the inception of Title IX that says a school has to spend an equal amount on sports that draw only mothers and daddies, it's put a major strain on the revenue producing sports. Without at least one big pay day per season, I'm not sure moving up would be worth it financially. Having grown up during the years when UNA played Jacksonville State, Troy, UT-Martin, Southeastern La, Nichols State and Alabama A&M, there's still a strong desire to go back to playing with the schools we were more closely associated with.

http://www.gobison.com/images/2005/6/28/rp_primary_JeffBentrim1985SlipsTacklePalmBowl.jpg

http://www.gobison.com/sports/1985/12/14/178134263.aspx?id=1707

[AmsterBison]

I know we aren't a typical D2 program but North Alabama is .500 against FCS and 1-0 against FBS in the modern era and should have and would have moved up 20 years ago if not for hosting the D2 National Championship Game for 28 years. We average 9,000 to 12,000 fans per game which is more in tune with mid-level FCS. The Lions last three games against FCS were a last minute three point loss at Youngstown State during their back-to-back National Championship run, a solid win over a play-off bound Jacksonville State and a double overtime loss to the Gamecocks in 2013. There's not that much difference in front line talent between good FCS and good D2 and on a given Saturday, North Alabama or similar D2 teams can give top FCS schools all they want and sometimes win, as evidenced by Colorado-Pueblo's pounding of Sam Houston this past season. Could D2 do that every week. No. Attrition would quickly take it's toll and with no one to fill in for the injured it would be all over.

You sound like an NDSU fan from ten years ago. Good luck whatever North Alabama decides. Don't suppose there is room in the OVC for UNA right now, is there? It'd be good to see Jacksonville State and North Alabama playing again.

[kperk014]

It was so disappointing that the worst team we had during that time period would be the one to make it to the championship game. The '83 team was by far the best with an explosive offense that scored more than 100 points more than the '85 team in fewer games but lost to Central State by three in something I can only describe as a cross between a monsoon and a hurricane complete with tornado warnings. I think the '85 team's defense scored as many points as the offense did. That's football. xdrunkyx

[kperk014]

You sound like an NDSU fan from ten years ago. Good luck whatever North Alabama decides. Don't suppose there is room in the OVC for UNA right now, is there? It'd be good to see Jacksonville State and North Alabama playing again.

The game with NDSU showed a philosophy the Lions used 8 years later to begin a back to back to back run. Power running with just enough passing to keep the defense honest and a big, dominating defense. As Skynyrd said: Nuthin' fancy.

[Catatonic]

I know we aren't a typical D2 program but North Alabama is .500 against FCS and 1-0 against FBS in the modern era and should have and would have moved up 20 years ago if not for hosting the D2 National Championship Game for 28 years. We average 9,000 to 12,000 fans per game which is more in tune with mid-level FCS. The Lions last three games against FCS were a last minute three point loss at Youngstown State during their back-to-back National Championship run, a solid win over a play-off bound Jacksonville State and a double overtime loss to the Gamecocks in 2013. There's not that much difference in front line talent between good FCS and good D2 and on a given Saturday, North Alabama or similar D2 teams can give top FCS schools all they want and sometimes win, as evidenced by Colorado-Pueblo's pounding of Sam Houston this past season. Could D2 do that every week. No. Attrition would quickly take it's toll and with no one to fill in for the injured it would be all over.

I've always been an outspoken proponent of moving up but I'm not so sure anymore. The future of FCS is largely unknown because so, so many programs are at the mercy of whatever the big boys decide to do. Ever since the inception of Title IX that says a school has to spend an equal amount on sports that draw only mothers and daddies, it's put a major strain on the revenue producing sports. Without at least one big pay day per season, I'm not sure moving up would be worth it financially. Having grown up during the years when UNA played Jacksonville State, Troy, UT-Martin, Southeastern La, Nichols State and Alabama A&M, there's still a strong desire to go back to playing with the schools we were more closely associated with.

Didn't UNA do a self study to determine costs/benefits of a move to D1 a couple of years ago? My recollection is the recommendation was to seek D1 conference affiliation? Whatever happened with that? I know the Southland chose to add additional Texas schools rather than expand its footprint eastward to Alabama, although as I recall the Louisiana schools favored UNA. Not sure about the OVC, the other logical option for y'all.

[centennial]

Didn't UNA do a self study to determine costs/benefits of a move to D1 a couple of years ago? My recollection is the recommendation was to seek D1 conference affiliation? Whatever happened with that? I know the Southland chose to add additional Texas schools rather than expand its footprint eastward to Alabama, although as I recall the Louisiana schools favored UNA. Not sure about the OVC, the other logical option for y'all.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/2011-06-14-north-alabama-division-I_n.htm
Seems like they should be an FCS independent soon.. Can any UNA fan confirm?

[kperk014]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/2011-06-14-north-alabama-division-I_n.htm
Seems like they should be an FCS independent soon.. Can any UNA fan confirm?

We raised the $3 million application fee quickly. Then the OVC, for whatever reason, instituted a "no D2" expansion rule. I don't believe you can move up anymore as an independent as I think Jax State did. You have to have a conference invite and right now it seems everyone has frozen expansion plans because of the cloudy future. I know coach Wallace quickly cleaned up the mess Bowden made going with predominantly high school recruiting classes with a few jucos here and there. He is diligently working to raise the GPA in preparation. New facilities are being built and others upgraded. The Muscle Shoals area has a population of about 145,000 and they've gotten some of the music people involved and Huntsville is only 60 miles away with a metro population of over 430,000. It is second to Florence as home to the most students at UNA. We have a good situation and why no one has wanted to roll the dice (and it really wouldn't be a roll of the dice) on UNA is strange to say the least unless there's a lot of back room politics going on. How many D2s have moved up with three national championships in football, two in basketball, one in volleyball and dozens of NCAA appearances in all sports on their resumes?

[BisonFan02]

We raised the $3 million application fee quickly. Then the OVC, for whatever reason, instituted a "no D2" expansion rule. I don't believe you can move up anymore as an independent as I think Jax State did. You have to have a conference invite and right now it seems everyone has frozen expansion plans because of the cloudy future. I know coach Wallace quickly cleaned up the mess Bowden made going with predominantly high school recruiting classes with a few jucos here and there. He is diligently working to raise the GPA in preparation. New facilities are being built and others upgraded. The Muscle Shoals area has a population of about 145,000 and they've gotten some of the music people involved and Huntsville is only 60 miles away with a metro population of over 430,000. It is second to Florence as home to the most students at UNA. We have a good situation and why no one has wanted to roll the dice (and it really wouldn't be a roll of the dice) on UNA is strange to say the least unless there's a lot of back room politics going on. How many D2s have moved up with three national championships in football, two in basketball, one in volleyball and dozens of NCAA appearances in all sports on their resumes?

I know of one.....


DI
Football NCAA FCS Champs(4)
2011 17-6 Win vs SHSU 1/7/2012 Frisco, Texas
2012 39-13 Win vs SHSU 1/5/2013 Frisco, Texas
2013 35-7 Win vs Towson 1/4/2014 Frisco, Texas
2014 29-27 Win vs Illinois State 1/10/2015 Frisco, Texas

2006-2007(1 League)
Football Great West Champs

2007-2008(5 League)
Men's Track Summit League Indoor Champs
Men's Track Summit League Outdoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Outdoor Champs
Softball-Summit League Champs(Ineligible for postseason due to transition)

2008-2009(5 League, 3 Tournament)
Men's Basketball- Summit League Champs and Summit League Tournament Champs
-NCAA Tournament(74-84 Loss vs Kansas)
Men's Track Summit League Indoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
-Tied for 56th at NCAA Championships
Women's Track- Summit League Outdoor Champs(Tied for 36th at NCAA Championships)
Volleyball- Summit League Champs and Summit League Tournament Champs(NCAA tournament 0-3 Loss at Minnesota)
Softball- Summit League Tournament Champs
-Norman Regional(1-0 Win vs Oklahoma, 3-2 Win vs Tulsa, 4-1 Win vs Tulsa)
--Super Regional(0-3 Loss vs Arizona State, 0-11 Loss vs Arizona State)

2009-2010(6 League, 1 Tournament)
Men's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Men's Track Summit League Outdoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Outdoor Champs
Soccer- Summit League Champs(shared)
Softball-Summit League Tournament Champs(Seattle Regional 0-3 Loss vs Washington, 1-5 Loss vs Nebraska)
Volleyball-Summit League Champs

2010-2011(5 League, 2 Tournament)
Soccer- Summit League Tournament Champs
-NCAA Tournament(1 - 1 Loss 2OT[3-4 on PKs] vs Texas A&M)
Volleyball-Summit League Champs(shared) and Tournament Champs
-NCAA tournament(0-3 Loss vs Minnesota)
Men's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Men's Track-Summit League Outdoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Outdoor Champs(NCAA Tied for 51st at nationals)
Softball- Summit League Tournament Champs(Tempe Regional: ASU 0-10 L, SDSU 4-5 L)

2011-2012(1 National Title, 7 League and 2 Tournament)
Women's Cross Country- Summit League Champs(13th place out of 28 teams at Midwest Regional)
Volleyball- Summit League Champs and Tournament Champs(0-3 L at Minnesota)
Football- MVFC Champs(shared)
Football- FCS National Champs(26-14 W vs JMU, 24-0 W vs Lehigh, 35-7 W vs GSU and 17-6 W vs SHSU)
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs(Tied for 40th at NCAA nationals)
Softball-Summit League Champs and Tournament Champs(Tuscon regional 0-11 L vs Arizona, 9-7 W vs Hawaii, 4-8 L vs Notre Dame)
Women's Track- Summit League Outdoor Champs
Men's Track- Summit League Outdoor Champs

2012-2013(1 national title, 8 League)
Women's Cross Country- Summit League Champs(7th place at the Midwest Regional)
Football- MVFC Champs
Football- FCS National Champs(28-3 W vs SDSU, 14-7 W vs Wofford, 23-20 W vs GSU and 39-13 W vs SHSU)
Wrestling- Western Wrestling Conference Champs(30th place at NCAA Championships, Trent Sprenkle All-American)
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Women's Golf- Summit League Champs
Softball- Summit League Champs
Men's Track Summit League Outdoor Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Outdoor Champs

2013-2014(1 National, 7 League, 4 tournament)
Women's Cross Country- Summit League Champs
Football- MVFC Champs
Football- FCS National Champs(38-7 W vs Furman, 48-14 W vs CCU, 52-14 W vs UNH and 35-7 W vs Towson)
Basketball- Summit Champs and Summit League Tournament Champs(80-75 OT W vs Oklahoma and 44-63 L vs San Diego State)
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Wrestling- NCAA West Regional / WWC Tournament Champs(Steven Monk All-American)
Softball- Summit League Champs and Summit Tournament Champs(5-2 W vs Auburn, 1-4 L vs Minnesota and 0-1 L vs Auburn)
Men's Track Summit League Outdoor Champs(Shared)
Women's Track Summit League Outdoor Champs
Baseball- Summit League Tournament Champs(1-2 L vs Oregon State and 1-2 L vs UNLV)

2014-2015(1 National, 4 League, 2 Tournament)
Football-MVFC Champs(Shared)
Football- FCS National Champs(27-24 W vs SDSU, 39-32 W vs CCU, 35-3 W vs SHSU and 29-27 W vs Illinois State)
Wrestling- Western Wrestling Conference Champs and NCAA West Regional / WWC Tournament Champs
Women's Track- Summit League Indoor Champs
Men's Basketball- Summit League Champs(Shared) and Summit League Tournament Champs

DII
Baseball NCC Champs(3)
1969
1973
2004

Football NCAA College Division Champs(3)
1965(poll)
1968(poll)
1969(poll)

Football NCAA DII Champs(5)
1983
1985
1986
1988
1990

Football NCC Champs(26)
1925
1932
1935
1964
1965
1966
1967
1968
1969
1970
1972
1973
1974
1976
1977
1981
1982
1983
1984
1985
1986
1988
1990
1991
1992
1994

Men's Basketball NCC Champs(10)
1931-1932
1932-1933
1939-1940
1940-1941
1941-1942
1951-1952
1953-1954
1970-1971
1980-1981
1994-1995

Men's Cross Country NCAA Champs(1)
1972
Men's Cross Country NCC Champs(5)
1927
1928
1971
1973
1982

Men's Golf NCC Champs(9)
1940
1955
1961
1962
1969
1978
1987
1988
1990

Men's Indoor Track NCC Champs(17)
1971
1972
1979
1980
1983
1984
1985
1986
1990
1993
1994
1995
1996
1999
2000
2001
2003
2004

Men's Outdoor NCC Champs(23)
1971
1972
1980
1983
1984
1985
1986
1988
1989
1990
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
1999
2001
2002
2003
2004

Men's Tennis NCC Champs(5)
1931
1956
1963
1964

Wrestling NCAA tournament Champs (4)
1988
1998
2000
2001
Wrestling NCC tournament Champs(17)
1979
1982
1983
1984
1985
1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
1992
1993
1994
1998
2001
2002
2004

Women's Basketball NCAA Champs(5)
1990-1991
1992-1993
1993-1994
1994-1995
1995-1996
Women's Basketball NCC Champs(11)
1986-1987
1987-1988
1988-1989(shared)
1991-1992
1992-1993(shared)
1994-1995
1995-1996
1996-1997
1999-2000
2003-2004

Women's Cross Country NCC Champs(6)
1983
1985
1993
1997
1998
1999

Women's Indoor NCAA Champs(1)
2002
Women's Indoor NCC Champs(16)
1984
1985
1986
1987
1988
1989
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
Women's Outdoor NCC Champs(15)
1985
1986
1988
1989
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003

Women's Tennis NCC Champs(1)
1983

Softball NCAA Champs(1)
2000
Softball NCC Champs(2)
1999
2002

Volleyball NCC Champs(11)
1981
1982
1988
1989
1990
1991
1992
1998
1999
2001
2002
2003(Shared)

[kperk014]

Ok, that's one. What is NCC?

[BisonFan02]

Ok, that's one. What is NCC?

North Central Conference (conference champs)

[FargoBison]

Ok, that's one. What is NCC?

The greatest DII conference the ever existed....RIP NCC.

[kperk014]

The greatest DII conference the ever existed....RIP NCC.

xsmiley_wix Looking at those stats, it doesn't really look like it.

[BisonFan02]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Central_Conference

[kperk014]

It looks like it was always EXTREMELY top heavy judging from the fact that it looks like you guys won the conference in just about everything every year.

[kperk014]

The GSC hasn't been bad either with 49 team National Championships in 13 different sports spread out among nine schools.

http://www.gscsports.org/sports/2010/12/9/GSC%20History.aspx?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

We raised the $3 million application fee quickly. Then the OVC, for whatever reason, instituted a "no D2" expansion rule. I don't believe you can move up anymore as an independent as I think Jax State did. You have to have a conference invite and right now it seems everyone has frozen expansion plans because of the cloudy future. I know coach Wallace quickly cleaned up the mess Bowden made going with predominantly high school recruiting classes with a few jucos here and there. He is diligently working to raise the GPA in preparation. New facilities are being built and others upgraded. The Muscle Shoals area has a population of about 145,000 and they've gotten some of the music people involved and Huntsville is only 60 miles away with a metro population of over 430,000. It is second to Florence as home to the most students at UNA. We have a good situation and why no one has wanted to roll the dice (and it really wouldn't be a roll of the dice) on UNA is strange to say the least unless there's a lot of back room politics going on. How many D2s have moved up with three national championships in football, two in basketball, one in volleyball and dozens of NCAA appearances in all sports on their resumes?

Hopefully things work out for Wallace in his return to UNA. He seems to have the program headed back in the right direction.

Why he took the Temple job I'll never know. Well, I guess if you're a D2 coach and a BCS school calls you it's hard not to listen. Even so, he walked into a complete disaster at Temple. Wallace actually had us heading in the right direction in the early 2000's before our administration tried to kill the program on him.

[kperk014]

Hopefully things work out for Wallace in his return to UNA. He seems to have the program headed back in the right direction.

Why he took the Temple job I'll never know. Well, I guess if you're a D2 coach and a BCS school calls you it's hard not to listen. Even so, he walked into a complete disaster at Temple. Wallace actually had us heading in the right direction in the early 2000's before our administration tried to kill the program on him.

Amen. I used to talk with folks on their board in the late 90s. I was really pulling for them, of course because of Bobby but I've always been a fan of the underdog. They were just some missed field goals and a few bad breaks from getting over the .500 mark at one time and let's face it, that was back in the heyday of the Big East football-wise. If they had been in the MAC at that time, things would have been much different. When the Big East started talking about booting them because of low attendance, I told my brother it was over. How are you going to recruit against all the powers in that part of the country when you couldn't tell a player whether you would still have a conference or not. That's why he HAD to go heavy on jucos at that time and drew a lot of criticism. I can tell you this for a fact, he was proud to be an Owl and stilll has fond memories even though the last few years had to be utter torture for someone not used to losing. I hope everything goes well for you guys up there.