2 reasons why the North dominates FCS football

[Bisonator]

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/12/22/7430243/fcs-football-north-dakota-state-illinois-state

[NY Crusader 2010]

One major factor that makes this the case is that people in the South care a lot more about football than people in the North. Therefore, even though the product on the field may be the same, more people will come to watch in Alabama than will in New Hampshire. As a result, it makes sense for Troy to build a 30K seat stadium and move to FBS while UNH sits pretty in the CAA in its 6,500 seat dungeon. Because the towns, cities and school alumni are more football crazy in the southeast, the medium-sized state schools down there play in Conference USA and the Sun Belt, FBS conferences. Meanwhile, schools up North with comparable talent draw half the fans and stay on this side of the fence.

Another measuring stick: look at high school football in NY/NJ versus anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon. Could Bergen Catholic (NJ), Canisius (Buffalo) and Don Bosco Prep (NJ) matchup with Hoover High (AL), Naples (FL) and Permian (TX)? Probably but they don't draw 1/10th of the guys down South.

[BEAR]

Division II is dominated by northern teams like Pitts. State while the FBS is dominated by southern teams like Bama etc. The lower divisions really do have a dominance because all the talent goes to southern FBS.

[UNH Fanboi]

One major factor that makes this the case is that people in the South care a lot more about football than people in the North. Therefore, even though the product on the field may be the same, more people will come to watch in Alabama than will in New Hampshire. As a result, it makes sense for Troy to build a 30K seat stadium and move to FBS while UNH sits pretty in the CAA in its 6,500 seat dungeon. Because the towns, cities and school alumni are more football crazy in the southeast, the medium-sized state schools down there play in Conference USA and the Sun Belt, FBS conferences. Meanwhile, schools up North with comparable talent draw half the fans and stay on this side of the fence.

Another measuring stick: look at high school football in NY/NJ versus anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon. Could Bergen Catholic (NJ), Canisius (Buffalo) and Don Bosco Prep (NJ) matchup with Hoover High (AL), Naples (FL) and Permian (TX)? Probably but they don't draw 1/10th of the guys down South.

The top NJ catholic schools have been playing top schools from FL, CA and elsewhere for several years now and have gotten many wins. They absolutely match up with those schools and are often better than them.

[Bisonoline]

I thought the answer was our northern SPEED!!!!xnodx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The schools in the north as a whole, imo, have more money than those in the south. Several of the Southern public schools are grossly underfunded. Where as in the North, several are flagship institutions or have considerable $$ due a richer state schools system.

I think it's interesting that California and Florida historically have very little impact on FCS football...

[danefan]

The top NJ catholic schools have been playing top schools from FL, CA and elsewhere for several years now and have gotten many wins. They absolutely match up with those schools and are often better than them.

The NJ teams are routinely the favorite in those games. Plus they also have shown they can draw 10,000+ for high school games.

It wasn't too long ago that Don Bosco had 5 Army All Anericans on the same team. I believe it was and is a record.

[KPSUL]

Many of the best FCS teams from the south have moved to FBS the last several years: App. State, GA Southern and Old Dominion. If those teams were still in FBS you probably couldn't make that claim.

Did you post this just to get CitDog all fired up?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I wonder why the article says the North repped in all NC games since 2002 when Montana won it all in 2001 and was in it in 2000?

[bonarae]

Division II is dominated by northern teams like Pitts. State while the FBS is dominated by southern teams like Bama etc. The lower divisions really do have a dominance because all the talent goes to southern FBS.

I agree with this. Division II is usually dominated by Midwestern teams... while Division III is dominated by Midwestern teams as well - the usual participants in the Stagg Bowl, Whitewater and Mount Union, are in the Midwest, though from time to time, Johns Hopkins and less often, a surprise team like Gallaudet (deaf-oriented college) or MIT makes it in the Road to Salem. I am looking forward to the year Chicago finally returns to postseason football in more than 80 years.


One major factor that makes this the case is that people in the South care a lot more about football than people in the North. Therefore, even though the product on the field may be the same, more people will come to watch in Alabama than will in New Hampshire. As a result, it makes sense for Troy to build a 30K seat stadium and move to FBS while UNH sits pretty in the CAA in its 6,500 seat dungeon. Because the towns, cities and school alumni are more football crazy in the southeast, the medium-sized state schools down there play in Conference USA and the Sun Belt, FBS conferences. Meanwhile, schools up North with comparable talent draw half the fans and stay on this side of the fence.

Another measuring stick: look at high school football in NY/NJ versus anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon. Could Bergen Catholic (NJ), Canisius (Buffalo) and Don Bosco Prep (NJ) matchup with Hoover High (AL), Naples (FL) and Permian (TX)? Probably but they don't draw 1/10th of the guys down South.

Case #2: Catholic football teams in the Northeast, Florida and California are at almost the same level of support as the public school football teams in the South. While there are public school teams in the former regions who are often at the same level as the former teams, usually the Catholic teams have more support.


I think it's interesting that California and Florida historically have very little impact on FCS football...

California: Many schools in the state university system (and some private schools) discontinued their football programs (majority were in the FCS) in the time span of 1980-2005. UC Davis and Sacramento State are doormats in the BSC, while Cal Poly either isn't coached very well or has been hindered by bad luck (i.e. off-the-field problems and last-second adjustments in games). San Diego has been cursed by its late declaration of not being eligible for the Road to Frisco whenever they have a winning record. xsmhx

Florida: The two upstart FBS programs there (FAU and FIU) started their football lives in the FBS. The two FCS programs in the state are both HBCU's and have had hard times in the playoffs.

[Catsfan90]

I think its interesting about how they discuss recruits being overlooked. UNH has always primarily recruited in the mid Atlantic area and has had some outstanding success. When a recruit is overlooked, they come to the FCS with a chip on their shoulder.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't buy the article's central thesis, unless the MAC doesn't really exist and is just a figment of my imagination.

And a cursory look at NDSU's roster shows that the Bison hardly settle on local talent only, unless Arizona, Florida, and Hawai'i are now suddenly in the midwest and nobody told me.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't buy the article's central thesis, unless the MAC doesn't really exist and is just a figment of my imagination.

And a cursory look at NDSU's roster shows that the Bison hardly settle on local talent only, unless Arizona, Florida, and Hawai'i are now suddenly in the midwest and nobody told me.
What percentage are you talking about there? Did I miss it where it said "exclusively" or could we assume they probably meant primarily in any given situation here?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What percentage are you talking about there? Did I miss it where it said "exclusively" or could we assume they probably meant primarily in any given situation here?


There are two major reasons for the North's success. The first is recruiting. While the South produces far better athletes (http://www.cornnation.com/2014/2/12/5404912/college-football-recruits-2002-2014-map-location), the South is also more heavily recruited. It makes sense for an FBS coach to spend more time recruiting Alabama than, say, North Dakota. But that means coaches are going to miss good players more often in the North.

That's to the advantage of the Northern FCS schools, who are going to see kids in their backyard get overlooked more often than the Southern FCS schools.

"It's almost like the South gets strip-mined," Maine coach Jack Cosgrove told me last year (http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2014/01/03/in-the-fcs-its-the-north-that-reigns/) in an article for the Wall Street Journal. "There are not a lot of players available, and I guess it forces the FCS schools to really recruit where they are."

The article doesn't give percentages, but it gives the impression that teams like NDSU are only/mostly recruiting ND, SD, and Minnesota, which is ridiculous. A not insignificant number of their kids come from Nebraska.

[Bisonwinagn]

I agree the BCS schools don't spend a lot of time recruiting in the north which is why some very good players get overlooked. Also the lower tier players in the south are overrated by scouts and end up on FBS rosters when they really shouldn't be. It's a combination of both.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The article doesn't give percentages, but it gives the impression that teams like NDSU are only/mostly recruiting ND, SD, and Minnesota, which is ridiculous. A not insignificant number of their kids come from Nebraska.

I guess you are reading something differently than I am cuz I ain't getting what you are out of it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I guess you are reading something differently than I am cuz I ain't getting what you are out of it.

That could be. I'm seeing "kids in their backyard more often getting overlooked" and also seeing NDSU has 17 kids on their roster from North Dakota. If you define NDSU's "backyard" as "any state north of Kansas" then point taken. But NDSU obviously spends a lot of time in other markets looking for talent than North Dakota, i.e. Nebraska, Florida, now Arizona.

NDSU isn't alone. The reason UNH is so good is not because they've suddenly gotten a boatload more talent in New Hampshire. They've instead found rich veins of talent in the Lehigh Valley, Florida, and other places. You can of course try to define UNH's "backyard" as being the Lehigh Valley, or the "East" as their backyard, but I don't.

Furthermore, when App got all that great talent, wasn't all the talk about how guys like Armanti Edwards were overlooked, that there was so much talent spilling out of the South? Now App is gone and suddenly the South is strip-mined of talent (Cosgrove's words)?

The point is NDSU and UNH are very good because they've found veins of talent that were undiscovered. That's no accident. They're excellent football programs. And these veins of talent are not in North Dakota or New Hampshire.

[Sycamore62]

I've always thought the term southern speed and a link from one of the above links are basically a socially acceptable way of saying more black people live in the south. Maybe I'm reading too far into it.

Is there a comparable map that shows something comparable for basketball.

edit: I say this wondering why our over sensitive culture hasn't brought it up

[Drblankstare]

Easy explaintion "northern speed" bitches.............. I'll show myself out. Merry Christmas:D

[NY Crusader 2010]

Sycamore62 - FWIW I believe the Northern cities, NY in particular are OVERRATED when it comes to basketball. How many times to teams from the Catholic High School League get beat from teams from VA, NC and GA?

[Bisonoline]

I've always thought the term southern speed and a link from one of the above links are basically a socially acceptable way of saying more black people live in the south. Maybe I'm reading too far into it.

Is there a comparable map that shows something comparable for basketball.

edit: I say this wondering why our over sensitive culture hasn't brought it up

Ive always looked at that term in regards to ex the Big Ten vs the SEC. The Midwest was more about power football, big lineman, fullbacks etc. A slower brand of football as opposed to whats played in the south. More wide open needing faster athletes.

[caribbeanhen]

Florida: The two upstart FBS programs there (FAU and FIU) started their football lives in the FBS. The two FCS programs in the state are both HBCU's and have had hard times in the playoffs.

pretty sure I saw FAU get beat by Colgate in the 1-aa playoffs back in 2003

[Cocky]

Another issue is the offer of more majors by flagship universities. Most Southern FCS schools are more "regional" schools or founded as teacher schools which have limited offers.

[Gil Dobie]

If you look at ND, SD, MN, WI, IA, NE, WY, and MT, there are 6 FBS schools. Mostly due to population of the Western states on this list and Money in the Eastern, more populous states. Wisconsin has some great DIII schools, Minnesota DII. This leaves Wisconsin and Minnesota as fertile recruiting grounds for the local FCS schools.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU has 12 players outside its recruiting "footprint".....ex. Midwest

A lot of talent passed over by FBS teams....they cannot get them all.

[Gil Dobie]

NDSU has 12 players outside its recruiting "footprint".....ex. Midwest

A lot of talent passed over by FBS teams....they cannot get them all.

NDSU does a good job of developing these recruits too.

[GABison]

With the last five FCS titles going to "northern teams", this article is a little like the billboard that says depression is the number #1 cause of suicide.

The college football world is cyclical. The South will rise again.

[Big Dawg]

Schools in the North face less competition than we do in the South. For example, when you look at South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, etc, there less programs to compete with. Heck, there aren't any FBS programs in those states, so they are the big names in town. Now let's look at Florida, everybody is recruiting down here and it seems we have new programs popping up every year. In Florida there is FSU, UF, Miami(The Big 3), UCF, USF(The other big schools), FIU, FAU(to round out FBS), BCU, Jacksonville, Stetson, Florida Tech, Webber, West Florida(new program), etc.

Another thing I've learned, speed does not win the game at the FCS level. We have a bunch of speed at FAMU, but it wins us nothing. The key to winning at this level is in the trenches.

[PaladinFan]

Another issue is the offer of more majors by flagship universities. Most Southern FCS schools are more "regional" schools or founded as teacher schools which have limited offers.

Yes, and no. There are plenty of those, but there are also quite a number of smaller private institutions as well.

Furman has about 2600 students and is one of nine D1 football schools in South Carolina. Furman's attendance is on par, roughly, with UNH (which has close to 15,000 students). Paladin Stadium is twice the size of Cowell Stadium (granted, Paladin Stadium is too big for a school Furman's size).

What's lost on this is the tie to southern culture. Football is a sport, but it is also deeply ingrained in the very definition of what it means to be "Southern." It is a tie to family, food, etc.

[Cocky]

You're only talking about a few schools, NDSU, EWU, UAT, Auburn and a few more. There are plenty of the teams who are not good in the north and south. The Sunbelt didn't have a team which could have competed for a NC is FCS. CUSA wasn't much better nor the MAC. Several not very good FCS teams in the north.

UAT isn't a southern but a collection of the nation's best talent similar to UK basketball. Teams who are willing to pay for coaches and give them the ability to run their program usally are sucessful (ie UAT prior to Saban).

[JSUBison]

It's funny that the article's focus is North VS South, when it seems everybody here focuses on west vs east. Even though ISU-R is by no means a western state, the MVFC has been kind of defined as a western conference. Which means that no matter who wins the championship, a "western" conference will have won now for 5 straight years after many years of an eastern team winning. Looking at next year, I think the top teams again will probably come from the west, and the champ will probably come from either the Big Sky, Southland or Valley.

[DFW HOYA]

What's lost on this is the tie to southern culture. Football is a sport, but it is also deeply ingrained in the very definition of what it means to be "Southern." It is a tie to family, food, etc.

College football, yes. Pro football, less so because the NFL arrived late to the South and those teams in the South (Dolphins, Saints, Falcons, Jaguars, Panthers, Titans) aren't always that good.

By contrast, the loyalty for NFL football in the north (Patriots, Browns, Steelers, Eagles, Redskins, Giants, Jets, Ravens ) dwarf the college teams.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

College football, yes. Pro football, less so because the NFL arrived late to the South and those teams in the South (Dolphins, Saints, Falcons, Jaguars, Panthers, Titans) aren't always that good.

By contrast, the loyalty for NFL football in the north (Patriots, Browns, Steelers, Eagles, Redskins, Giants, Jets, Ravens ) dwarf the college teams.

Pennsylvania is definitely the lone exception in the Northeast. College football, especially Penn State and Notre Dame, remain very big. A scandal of Sandusky proportions can only happen in a state and at an institution that has a cult like fanaticism with football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I also find it weird that they say the North "dominates" FCS football when prior to this year App State was considered the gold standard, as if their back-to-back-to-back championships didn't really matter during the last ten years.

If you split it, as one poster put it, as a split between west/east or a split between regions (midwest, west, east, south), it's a hell of a lot less clear cut. Hell, the Missouri Valley only had two teams in the playoffs a couple of years ago. The "North" encompasses a huge number of all programs because it essentially encompasses the East, Midwest, and West.

[PaladinFan]

I also find it weird that they say the North "dominates" FCS football when prior to this year App State was considered the gold standard, as if their back-to-back-to-back championships didn't really matter during the last ten years.

If you split it, as one poster put it, as a split between west/east or a split between regions (midwest, west, east, south), it's a hell of a lot less clear cut. Hell, the Missouri Valley only had two teams in the playoffs a couple of years ago. The "North" encompasses a huge number of all programs because it essentially encompasses the East, Midwest, and West.

Well, I think therein lies the fallacy.

Programs aligned (at one point or another) with the Southern Conference can claim 12 national titles. That's not even counting other "Southern" teams that have won the title (FAMU, UL-Monroe, EKU, WKU, Richmond).

Depending on whether you see Kentucky as a "Southern" state, teams from the South can claim close to 20 of the 30 someodd FCS titles.

[mmiller_34]

Well, I think therein lies the fallacy.

Programs aligned (at one point or another) with the Southern Conference can claim 12 national titles. That's not even counting other "Southern" teams that have won the title (FAMU, UL-Monroe, EKU, WKU, Richmond).

Depending on whether you see Kentucky as a "Southern" state, teams from the South can claim close to 20 of the 30 someodd FCS titles.

Wasn't Waetern Kentucky in th Gateway though?

[NoCoDanny]

One major factor that makes this the case is that people in the South care a lot more about football than people in the North. Therefore, even though the product on the field may be the same, more people will come to watch in Alabama than will in New Hampshire. As a result, it makes sense for Troy to build a 30K seat stadium and move to FBS while UNH sits pretty in the CAA in its 6,500 seat dungeon. Because the towns, cities and school alumni are more football crazy in the southeast, the medium-sized state schools down there play in Conference USA and the Sun Belt, FBS conferences. Meanwhile, schools up North with comparable talent draw half the fans and stay on this side of the fence.

Another measuring stick: look at high school football in NY/NJ versus anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon. Could Bergen Catholic (NJ), Canisius (Buffalo) and Don Bosco Prep (NJ) matchup with Hoover High (AL), Naples (FL) and Permian (TX)? Probably but they don't draw 1/10th of the guys down South.

Permian is a bad example now, they are pretty mediocre. Now Allen High the 3 time defending champion in the highest class I'd take against any school in the country, that enrollment of 6,000 doesn't hurt them either.

[hebmskebm]

Pennsylvania is definitely the lone exception in the Northeast. College football, especially Penn State and Notre Dame, remain very big. A scandal of Sandusky proportions can only happen in a state and at an institution that has a cult like fanaticism with football.

I agree. I do think that if schools like Rutgers, BC, and Syracuse began wining consistently again the fans would support them. Casual northeast sport fans only care about college sports if A) They're a student or alumni or B) If the school in question is a national title contender at the highest level. Penn State's support is closer to the kind of support B1G and SEC teams get, where the schools have legions of fans who never even attended. I do think Rutgers has the potential to be that someday, but it all starts with winning.

[BisonFan02]

....because NDSU runs power behind true fullbacks.

http://www.inforum.com/sports-bison/3637523-beyond-game-bison-fullback-jedre-cyr-hauls-load

Cyr hauls livestock and his predecessor Grothmann continued to work on the family farm/ranch in Hillsboro, ND....hard nosed/work ethic.

[frozennorth]

Apparently nebraska is out of footprint for ndsu now. You can get there on a tank of gas. Omaha is probably closer than Williston.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Apparently nebraska is out of footprint for ndsu now. You can get there on a tank of gas. Omaha is probably closer than Williston.


No verbals yet for 2015 doesn't mean NE is out of the recruiting picture.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I do think Rutgers has the potential to be that someday, but it all starts with winning.

Nobody gives a crap about Rutgers. Probably twice as many ND fans in this state as RU.