Round 2 playoff attendance

[birdsflyhigh]

Top to bottom attended games yesterday:

NDSU................. 18,113
Jacksonville St.... 10,832
Chattanooga........ 8,419
EWU................... 7,919
Coastal Carolina....5,601
Illinois State.........5,575
New Hampshire....4,021
Villanova.............3,113

Gotta give it to the fans at NDSU. Of course being 3 time defending national champs and playing your #1 rival helps.

Looking forward to the games in FCS round 3....YES!!

[Daytripper]

That Jacksonville State number is BS. There were no more than 4k people in the stadium.

[TheKingpin28]

The thing is that the 18000 was a low number. I could see them being above 19000 for this next game.

[marenlee]

That Jacksonville State number is BS. There were no more than 4k people in the stadium.

I was thinking the same thing. For Sunbelt wannabes they really showed up to support their #3 team. There actually seemed to be more at the Nova game than reported.

[Cocky]

That Jacksonville State number is BS. There were no more than 4k people in the stadium.

yea we have so much money we like to send the NCAA extra money. Appeared close to 4000 in the club and suite level.

[youngMOCSfan1886]

I was at the UTC game and I gotta be honest I was surprised by how many people came. It was on and off rain all day until kickoff and most students had finals that day. Attendance was below season average, but was still impressed with the attendance given circumstances.

[dewey]

Like others have said the number for NDSU was low as it should be right around 19k depending on how many standing room only seats get sold. Attendance has been very good in each of the playoff games from the previous three years as well.

Dewey

[major095]

Top to bottom attended games yesterday:

NDSU................. 18,113
Jacksonville St.... 10,832
Chattanooga........ 8,419
EWU................... 7,919
Coastal Carolina....5,601
Illinois State.........5,575
New Hampshire....4,021
Villanova.............3,113

Gotta give it to the fans at NDSU. Of course being 3 time defending national champs and playing your #1 rival helps.

Looking forward to the games in FCS round 3....YES!!

i know it wasn't a playoff game but it was a fcs game. swac championship in houston drew just under 39k

[Milktruck74]

i know it wasn't a playoff game but it was a fcs game. swac championship in houston drew just under 39k

But how many of those 39k could actually tell you the final score? 38k were there for the party and maybe 1000 were actually watching the game because they were the friend or family member of a player/coach. Great showing, but the teams/game is/are really irrelevant.

[JSUBison]

But how many of those 39k could actually tell you the final score? 38k were there for the party and maybe 1000 were actually watching the game because they were the friend or family member of a player/coach. Great showing, but the teams/game is/are really irrelevant.

Two weeks to sell tickets to your first playoff game in 30 years and 8400 is your number? Who's irrelevant?

[major095]

But how many of those 39k could actually tell you the final score? 38k were there for the party and maybe 1000 were actually watching the game because they were the friend or family member of a player/coach. Great showing, but the teams/game is/are really irrelevant.

My school won the conference championship. Not really irrelevant to fans of my school. Rather than launch into a diatribe I'll ask why do you make that statement? What experiences do you have that lead you to that conclusion?

Why irrelevant? Let me ask a few more questions, ones that ae probably quite relevant. Does Chatt generate a profit from football? Will your school or any school make any direct money from playoff participation? If Chattanooga wins the FCS playoffs, looking at the checkbook, would you rather have the money from the swac title game or from all of your games in the fcs playoffs? When you go to work, do you go to work for free or pay your employer for the honor of being the employee? Have things that don't make dollars often made sense to you?

When you can make money, things that don't... make money.... are irrelevant. And before you totally try and discount that thought, Chattanooga thought enough of the classic model that many hbcus employ that they attempted to do the same things many years ago. In fact Alcorn participated in a classic game with Chattanooga (forgot what you guys called it) I do remember Alcorn put up more points than alabama did on chatt the week before. I believe we also help set a stadium attendance record at the time. See, Chatt wanted to make some money too.

[IBleedYellow]

NDSU will NEVER sell out a Playoff game. We always claim less tickets sold than the 19k number because they don't want to share that revenue with the NCAA. The only playoff game we've never had a sold out crowd was the first game in 2010 against Robert Morris. 12k there.

[lionsrking2]

My school won the conference championship. Not really irrelevant to fans of my school. Rather than launch into a diatribe I'll ask why do you make that statement? What experiences do you have that lead you to that conclusion?

Why irrelevant? Let me ask a few more questions, ones that ae probably quite relevant. Does Chatt generate a profit from football? Will your school or any school make any direct money from playoff participation? If Chattanooga wins the FCS playoffs, looking at the checkbook, would you rather have the money from the swac title game or from all of your games in the fcs playoffs? When you go to work, do you go to work for free or pay your employer for the honor of being the employee? Have things that don't make dollars often made sense to you?

When you can make money, things that don't... make money.... are irrelevant. And before you totally try and discount that thought, Chattanooga thought enough of the classic model that many hbcus employ that they attempted to do the same things many years ago. In fact Alcorn participated in a classic game with Chattanooga (forgot what you guys called it) I do remember Alcorn put up more points than alabama did on chatt the week before. I believe we also help set a stadium attendance record at the time. See, Chatt wanted to make some money too.

+1! Congrats to Alcorn on a fantastic season!xthumbsupx

[lionsrking2]

That Jacksonville State number is BS. There were no more than 4k people in the stadium.

If that many.

[SIUSalukiFan]

NDSU will NEVER sell out a Playoff game. We always claim less tickets sold than the 19k number because they don't want to share that revenue with the NCAA. The only playoff game we've never had a sold out crowd was the first game in 2010 against Robert Morris. 12k there.

I'm not sure NDSU or anybody is able to do this.

I've always worked under the (informed) impression the NCAA has a representative on hand at each game during the post-game accounting process.

[swaghook]

Just because a game sells out does not mean that every ticket is used. They announce the gate, not the tickets sold. Several people were holding tickets up in the lobby yesterday trying to sell them at a loss even just to recoup some of the money they spent. Usually due to unexpected situations or a person in their group had to work. I'm betting others just took the loss.

[stevdock]

I'm not sure NDSU or anybody is able to do this.

I've always worked under the (informed) impression the NCAA has a representative on hand at each game during the post-game accounting process.

I don't remember seeing more than a handful of empty seats in the dome yesterday and the standing room only spots were FULL. I think it'd have to be close to 19K.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Just because a game sells out does not mean that every ticket is used. They announce the gate, not the tickets sold. Several people were holding tickets up in the lobby yesterday trying to sell them at a loss even just to recoup some of the money they spent. Usually due to unexpected situations or a person in their group had to work. I'm betting others just took the loss.

I concede your point on tickets used.

However, announcing the gate and the NCAA getting its hand on its cut of total tickets sold are two completely different things.

The NCAA isn't stupid.

[swaghook]

I concede your point on tickets used.

However, announcing the gate and the NCAA getting its hand on its cut of total tickets sold are two completely different things.

The NCAA isn't stupid.

I'm not arguing the point on what the NCAA gets for a cut, just that the attendance figure posted here might be an accurate count for those at the game.

[GAD]

But how many of those 39k could actually tell you the final score? 38k were there for the party and maybe 1000 were actually watching the game because they were the friend or family member of a player/coach. Great showing, but the teams/game is/are really irrelevant.
Well maybe UTC should start throwing parties, you couldn't even get 10K for your biggest game in two generationsxlolx people don't seem to be interested in your football team

[TheKingpin28]

I know for a fact there were at least 3 empty seats in the nosebleed section of the south endzone in section 8. It felt weird seeing empty seats. I could even see seats in the student section empty, but that should surprise no one, and I don't feel like we need to go down that road again about students not filling the stadium.

[Herder]

For you SWAC folks, please answer this.

If the SWAC championship were to be played on week 1 of the FCS playoffs (humor me, I know it's 1 week off) and the ncaa agreed to give the SWAC champ (each year) the #8 seed or better if earned which would mean a round 2 home game in the playoff each year, would the SWAC agree to participate? Or is the swac philosophically opposed to the playoffs?

[Sader87]

One wondahs how much longer this (playoff sytem) will go on...it's pretty obvious hardly anyone (outside of a few outliers, NDSU, Montana, Liberty etc) could be bothered to go these games.

It's too long/drawn-out, December games in the Northeast are going to almost always be played undah poor weather conditions, these weeks are cutting into Final Exam periods etc etc

It should probably, at most, be an 8 team tournament. I could see more leagues going the Ivy/SWAC route rather than vice versa moving forward.

[Redbird Recon]

Embarrassing number at Illinois State

I'm guessing 1,000 of those were UNI fans too.

[chattanoogamocs]

I was at the UTC game and I gotta be honest I was surprised by how many people came. It was on and off rain all day until kickoff and most students had finals that day. Attendance was below season average, but was still impressed with the attendance given circumstances.

This basically proved that there are about 8-9,000 serious UTC fans...at this point, any above that are casual/local fans, or fans of the other team...and when the weather is bad, you aren't going to see many/any casual fans. If you look at all the previous high attendance games, they have either been homecoming or against a team that travel very well (JSU, ASU, GSU, TSU). Honestly, what got the average over 10K this year was a strong turnout by JSU fans in the home opener.

It is what it is...the school went two decades with mediocre to terrible teams. That's 20 years of not establishing any kind of team loyalty with young alums (who wants to go see a bad team year in and year out). What you have is old school fans that have been around forever and current students. We basically lost a whole generation of potential fans by putting out a terrible product.

All we can do now is build on what we have now. Freshman and Sophomores have only seen SoCon titles...they will be much more likely to become long term fans because they have seen nothing but success.

Personally, I was also happy with the crowd...it was a decent size and they were definitely in to the game. I would rather have 8,000 real fans than 20,000 "whine and cheesers."

[Grizzlies82]

Personally, I was also happy with the crowd...it was a decent size and they were definitely in to the game. I would rather have 8,000 real fans than 20,000 "whine and cheesers."

Chattanoogamocs, Good observations. The goal is to be seeking the 20,000 "beer and brauts" fans.
Winning does help bring 'em in. Hope you're on your way to establishing that new fan base.

[citdog]

One wondahs how much longer this (playoff sytem) will go on...it's pretty obvious hardly anyone (outside of a few outliers, NDSU, Montana, Liberty etc) could be bothered to go these games.

It's too long/drawn-out, December games in the Northeast are going to almost always be played undah poor weather conditions, these weeks are cutting into Final Exam periods etc etc

It should probably, at most, be an 8 team tournament. I could see more leagues going the Ivy/SWAC route rather than vice versa moving forward.

How many times are you going to post this same STUPID idea? You don't like the playoffs. WE GET IT.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9zJHvCsmOI

[Professor Chaos]

One wondahs how much longer this (playoff sytem) will go on...it's pretty obvious hardly anyone (outside of a few outliers, NDSU, Montana, Liberty etc) could be bothered to go these games.

It's too long/drawn-out, December games in the Northeast are going to almost always be played undah poor weather conditions, these weeks are cutting into Final Exam periods etc etc

It should probably, at most, be an 8 team tournament. I could see more leagues going the Ivy/SWAC route rather than vice versa moving forward.

Every year the story is the same with playoff attendance lagging behind the regular season numbers but, at least in 2011 (granted the field was still 20 teams then), the playoffs operated in the black (source: http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/380816/publisher_ID/1/). Giving more student athletes and fans a chance to play in/watch a championship tournament is the bottom line benefit and I don't see any reason why any other conferences would voluntarily pull their schools out of participation. The conferences/schools don't lose any money unless they overbid for home games and the NCAA pinches pennies enough with their regionalized brackets that they usually come pretty close to breaking even if not turning a small profit. There's nothing new here and it doesn't forecast any impending playoff contraction.

[JayJ79]

For you SWAC folks, please answer this.

If the SWAC championship were to be played on week 1 of the FCS playoffs (humor me, I know it's 1 week off) and the ncaa agreed to give the SWAC champ (each year) the #8 seed or better if earned which would mean a round 2 home game in the playoff each year, would the SWAC agree to participate? Or is the swac philosophically opposed to the playoffs?

does the SWAC champ have a resume worthy of getting the #8 seed?

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

How many times are you going to post this same STUPID idea? You don't like the playoffs. WE GET IT.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9zJHvCsmOI

Who likes a party they never get invited to?

[youngMOCSfan1886]

Well maybe UTC should start throwing parties, you couldn't even get 10K for your biggest game in two generationsxlolx people don't seem to be interested in your football team

Like other Mocs fans have already said on here, it is hard to get over 10k fans to attend when for the past 25-30 years the product on the field has been lackluster to put it kindly. I am proud of our attendance number considering the weather, students had finals that day, and over 8k of those fans were UTC fans. I thought Indiana State would have traveled better which obviously would have raised the number.

Also, the city of Chattanooga is home to a ton of bama fans. Those bama fans that usually come to UTC games as casual fans didn't because of the SEC championship game

[bluehenbillk]

I think it's fair to say Liberty had more fans in the stands than Villanova. Granted it was crappy weather but that number is really bad.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

One wondahs how much longer this (playoff sytem) will go on...it's pretty obvious hardly anyone (outside of a few outliers, NDSU, Montana, Liberty etc) could be bothered to go these games.

It's too long/drawn-out, December games in the Northeast are going to almost always be played undah poor weather conditions, these weeks are cutting into Final Exam periods etc etc

It should probably, at most, be an 8 team tournament. I could see more leagues going the Ivy/SWAC route rather than vice versa moving forward.

Perfect! MVFC, CAA, BSC, Southland, SoCon with autobids and 3 at large.

The Patriot can go piss up a rope.

[GAD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w79MsYY55s&feature=player_embedded

[kalm]

Every year the story is the same with playoff attendance lagging behind the regular season numbers but, at least in 2011 (granted the field was still 20 teams then), the playoffs operated in the black (source: http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/380816/publisher_ID/1/). Giving more student athletes and fans a chance to play in/watch a championship tournament is the bottom line benefit and I don't see any reason why any other conferences would voluntarily pull their schools out of participation. The conferences/schools don't lose any money unless they overbid for home games and the NCAA pinches pennies enough with their regionalized brackets that they usually come pretty close to breaking even if not turning a small profit. There's nothing new here and it doesn't forecast any impending playoff contraction.

This!

We went from 4-5 K in 2010 to selling out last week. Look at Montana's transformation from Dornblazer to WaGriz. It takes time.

And judging from the amount of effort and timely updates MOST schools put into their official athletics website, I'm guessing many could do far better at spreading the word.

EWU sends out email blasts to it's athletics fans database on 3-4 times per week basis, announcing weekly player awards, upcoming games, weekly coaches radio shows etc. The website has a media section with weekly 15 minute coaches interviews and archived podcasts of the coaches shows. Game re-caps, box scores, articles are up within hours and stats are updated just as fast. Multiple social media posts occur daily. Previews of upcoming games are posted by Monday. The local ESPN affiliate carries the games and coaches shows.

All of this raises interest and I have a feeling that many FCS programs don't put in the effort despite the low cost of this type of marketing.

Again, it takes a little work, but it CAN get better.

[chattownmocs]

Comparing attendance for a playoff game to a black cultural event is a bit unfair anyway.

[Pards Rule]

Lets see 23 busses X 40 seats would be like 900 alone from Lynchburg. This announced attendance off tickets sales and not actual attendance has to stop. Whats the point? Never mind, to make the athletic depts look better! And everyone knows its a farce! Its ridiculous!

[GAD]

Comparing attendance for a playoff game to a black cultural event is a bit unfair anyway.
If people are interested they will show up just ask ODU, EWU, NDSU, and Montana...

[Sader87]

Perfect! MVFC, CAA, BSC, Southland, SoCon with autobids and 3 at large.

.

I can see that happening actually.

Those are really the only schools/leagues with any real interest (in terms of fan #'s, media interest etc) in the current playoff process.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I can see that happening actually.

Those are really the only schools/leagues with any real interest (in terms of fan #'s, media interest etc) in the current playoff process.

You might want to talk to some of your conference mates about that one.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Embarrassing number at Illinois State

I'm guessing 1,000 of those were UNI fans too.

Yeah I was there, and it was a pathetic showing for Illinois State. We literally tried to give a ticket to some ISUr students in the parking lot and they were like we aren't going we are going somewhere warm to watch the game. I mean it was cold, but it wasn't super cold at all. They also thought we were trying to trick them which made zero sense as well.

There were probably 1000 of those that were UNI fans. I was surprised by how few were on that nice new side of Hancock Stadium.

[chattanoogamocs]

If people are interested they will show up just ask ODU, EWU, NDSU, and Montana...

All this is an apples and oranges comparison.

Outside of ODU, which is now FBS...the three FCS schools you have mentioned are all traditionally dominant FCS programs that are also out in the middle of nowhere with no other real competition (they are the big game in their respective areas). For a school like Chattanooga, for example, it is tougher...we have no winning tradition in football since the early 80's and we are stuck in the crossroads of the SEC. There are 15,000 UTK season ticket holders in Chattanooga...and large groups of Alabama and Georgia fans.

As for HBCU's...I have always been in awe of what an event a game is. I think it is a legit argument that many people show up for the overall experience and not just the football game (to some, I am sure the game is secondary)...but I still respect the ability to get that many people to show up for whatever the reason.

Personally, I don't get wrapped up in attendance. Like I said earlier, I would rather have 8,000 serious UTC fans than 20,000 that are sitting around not paying attention to the game (or are still out tailgating at kickoff).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm lazy but I'm pretty sure some of those old Dacotah Field playoff games in December were pretty sparsely attended.

Say what you want for indoor football being an abomination, it makes for people to actually attend who might not otherwise.

[GAD]

All this is an apples and oranges comparison.

Outside of ODU, which is now FBS...the three FCS schools you have mentioned are all traditionally dominant FCS programs that are also out in the middle of nowhere with no other real competition (they are the big game in their respective areas). For a school like Chattanooga, for example, it is tougher...we have no winning tradition in football since the early 80's and we are stuck in the crossroads of the SEC. There are 15,000 UTK season ticket holders in Chattanooga...and large groups of Alabama and Georgia fans.

As for HBCU's...I have always been in awe of what an event a game is. I think it is a legit argument that many people show up for the overall experience and not just the football game (to some, I am sure the game is secondary)...but I still respect the ability to get that many people to show up for whatever the reason.

Personally, I don't get wrapped up in attendance. Like I said earlier, I would rather have 8,000 serious UTC fans than 20,000 that are sitting around not paying attention to the game (or are still out tailgating at kickoff).
I can relate to being at an SEC crossroads Southern is about 15 minutes from those Purple & Gold Tigers

[GAD]

I'm lazy but I'm pretty sure some of those old Dacotah Field playoff games in December were pretty sparsely attended.

Say what you want for indoor football being an abomination, it makes for people to actually attend who might not otherwise.
Indoor football has its advantages, a few years ago I went to the Louisiana High School state Championships it was raining buckets. I was able to watch three games and never got wet
That's the reason the SWAC Champ game was moved out of Legion Field and to NRG Stadium

[kalm]

All this is an apples and oranges comparison.

Outside of ODU, which is now FBS...the three FCS schools you have mentioned are all traditionally dominant FCS programs that are also out in the middle of nowhere with no other real competition (they are the big game in their respective areas). For a school like Chattanooga, for example, it is tougher...we have no winning tradition in football since the early 80's and we are stuck in the crossroads of the SEC. There are 15,000 UTK season ticket holders in Chattanooga...and large groups of Alabama and Georgia fans.

As for HBCU's...I have always been in awe of what an event a game is. I think it is a legit argument that many people show up for the overall experience and not just the football game (to some, I am sure the game is secondary)...but I still respect the ability to get that many people to show up for whatever the reason.

Personally, I don't get wrapped up in attendance. Like I said earlier, I would rather have 8,000 serious UTC fans than 20,000 that are sitting around not paying attention to the game (or are still out tailgating at kickoff).

We share our media market with Gonzaga Basketball, Washington State Football, Montana Football, UW Football, Idaho Football, Spokane Chiefs (WHL) and Spokane Shock (Arena League). We used to get relegated to the back of that pack from a media standpoint but thanks to marketing efforts and yes, winning, we are now winning those battles.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Lets see 23 busses X 40 seats would be like 900 alone from Lynchburg. This announced attendance off tickets sales and not actual attendance has to stop. Whats the point? Never mind, to make the athletic depts look better! And everyone knows its a farce! Its ridiculous!

Pretty sure UNH counted tickets scanned. I heard we had a good advance sale. I had two friends who didn't come to the game because the precip was frozen once you got west and north of campus. Don't think you can assume all schools reported tickets sold.

[Pards Rule]

Pretty sure UNH counted tickets scanned. I heard we had a good advance sale. I had two friends who didn't come to the game because the precip was frozen once you got west and north of campus. Don't think you can assume all schools reported tickets sold.


Ok maybe that is the case in Durham which shows there is not a standard for NCAA?? This is absurd! I know Lafayette-Lehigh game was sellout and reported as 48K + attendance but my eyeballs calculated about 60-65% attendance of that figure based on empty seats.

[Panther88]

For you SWAC folks, please answer this.

If the SWAC championship were to be played on week 1 of the FCS playoffs (humor me, I know it's 1 week off) and the ncaa agreed to give the SWAC champ (each year) the #8 seed or better if earned which would mean a round 2 home game in the playoff each year, would the SWAC agree to participate? Or is the swac philosophically opposed to the playoffs?

Excellent question though I'm not sure giving the SWAC champ a #8 seed or better is the answer. However, if a SWAC squad's resume' is irrefutable (beating another FCS power/D-I FBS team OOC; while running roughshod through the other 9 SWAC squads), I think that deserves some type of national merit/ranking. For this past fall, Alcorn St arguably had the best SWAC squad, hands down. However, OOC, they played/beat Virginia-Lynchburg (equiv of a club team) and Lincoln University (D-II non-power), along w/ losing to a putrid USM squad by 3 points (I think). Would we have loved to see them in the playoff hunt? Sure thing. Could they have made some noise? Not sure... But I would have loved to have seen them in the playoff hunt.

W/ the SWAC Championship Game drawing in excess of 38K people @ NRG, obviously the SWAC has a fanbase. Would that same fanbase attempt to support through the playoffs? Not sure but something tells me if you get a Southern University/Jackson State University/Grambling State University in the playoffs, the bodies will come. If a Prairie View A&M University is EVER in the playoff hunt, myself and the 3 others will be there w/ smoking grill pre-game and a big purple flag to let everyone know we're there lol. (was hoping for that fall 2008 but our OOC record was victories over 2 NAIAs :( )

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

One wondahs how much longer this (playoff sytem) will go on...it's pretty obvious hardly anyone (outside of a few outliers, NDSU, Montana, Liberty etc) could be bothered to go these games.

It's too long/drawn-out, December games in the Northeast are going to almost always be played undah poor weather conditions, these weeks are cutting into Final Exam periods etc etc

It should probably, at most, be an 8 team tournament. I could see more leagues going the Ivy/SWAC route rather than vice versa moving forward.

You sure could have fooled me. Despite miserable conditions there were loads of interested folks in Cowell Stadium this past Saturday, most spirited crowd of the season, without great student attendance. And I'm confident it will be the same this Friday night (with hopefully a better student turnout). Weather conditions wouldn't be any better anywhere in the US other than the Far South, Texas and Cali. It's not just a Northeast thing. And despite going into finals, I know my team is still managing very good graduation rates.

I was thinking that your school might have a great crowd at Fitton Field, that a playoff game with UNH, Maine, Albany, Villanova, Richmond or W&M could really rock the stadium, but maybe December football is just too cold for the Old Purple Sweaters. (For the record, I'm 64 and I was in the stands Saturday and will be again this Friday night.) Maybe the Patriot should have forgotten about going scholarship and just solidified the incestuous relationship with the Ivy.

[Sycamore62]

I'm lazy but I'm pretty sure some of those old Dacotah Field playoff games in December were pretty sparsely attended.

Say what you want for indoor football being an abomination, it makes for people to actually attend who might not otherwise.

Ive played indoor, outdoor, grass, mud, rain, snow, ice, lightning, large stadiums, high school like fields and old style turf and probably some places that I cant remember. I love college football history and tradition but if you gave me the option, Id take a dome or somewhere never cold on turf (desert grass would be fine as long as it isnt muddy). watching or playing

[Panther88]

The D-I FCS playoff committee attempted to give itself a shot in the arm w/ the expanded field of invites. One shot it forgot to give was to determine if it could work WITH the SWAC to determine how the SWAC could also garner a conference invite/AQ, since the conference is a D-I FCS conference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w79MsYY55s

Over 38K+ showed up for a conference championship. Why would one not attempt to leverage that fanbase/conference for entree' into the D-I FCS playoffs? And I think the D-I FCS playoff committee, if it's semi-serious about inclusion, should attempt to work pretty quickly before certain 'powers' that be have their way and have some type of representative from the MEAC (their alleged #1) represent against the SWAC's #1 in some type of New Year's dead-week "Heritage Bowl" that ESPN is (has been) attempting to float for just under 2 years now.

How does the D-I FCS playoff committee reach out to the SWAC for inclusion?

[Sycamore62]

Youngstown St played Alcorn back in the day when McNair was QB and putting up Tecmo Bowl numbers. it was a blowout.

Were they SWAC then?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Ive played indoor, outdoor, grass, mud, rain, snow, ice, lightning, large stadiums, high school like fields and old style turf and probably some places that I cant remember. I love college football history and tradition but if you gave me the option, Id take a dome or somewhere never cold on turf (desert grass would be fine as long as it isnt muddy). watching or playing

I went to the Mo State game a few weeks ago. It was cold and rainy and if there were 500 people there, I'd be surprised. I don't care what anyone says, the dome is the right place for the Bison especially with so many games in December every year.

[chattanoogamocs]

Youngstown St played Alcorn back in the day when McNair was QB and putting up Tecmo Bowl numbers. it was a blowout.

Were they SWAC then?

McNair did the same thing to Chattanooga. Still the best QB performance I have ever seen in person.


He ended up with 491 passing yards in 27 completions and 156 rushing yards against the Mocs.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2009/7/11/154682/McNair-Dazzled-Chamberlain-Field-Fans.aspx

[Professor Chaos]

The D-I FCS playoff committee attempted to give itself a shot in the arm w/ the expanded field of invites. One shot it forgot to give was to determine if it could work WITH the SWAC to determine how the SWAC could also garner a conference invite/AQ, since the conference is a D-I FCS conference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w79MsYY55s

Over 38K+ showed up for a conference championship. Why would one not attempt to leverage that fanbase/conference for entree' into the D-I FCS playoffs? And I think the D-I FCS playoff committee, if it's semi-serious about inclusion, should attempt to work pretty quickly before certain 'powers' that be have their way and have some type of representative from the MEAC (their alleged #1) represent against the SWAC's #1 in some type of New Year's dead-week "Heritage Bowl" that ESPN is (has been) attempting to float for just under 2 years now.

How does the D-I FCS playoff committee reach out to the SWAC for inclusion?
I'd love to see the SWAC champion compete in the playoffs (and additional at large SWAC teams if they prove worthy) but I would absolutely abhor the idea of giving the SWAC champion an automatic bye into the round of 16. Nothing personal against you because I know that's not what you're advocating. If the NCAA and the SWAC can come up with a way for them to get their regular season done and play a conference championship game (perhaps by allowing them to start their regular season a week early) so be it. There should not be any preferential treatment though that gives the SWAC champion a competitive advantage over any other conference champion.

[Panther88]

I'd love to see the SWAC champion compete in the playoffs (and additional at large SWAC teams if they prove worthy) but I would absolutely abhor the idea of giving the SWAC champion an automatic bye into the round of 16. Nothing personal against you because I know that's not what you're advocating. If the NCAA and the SWAC can come up with a way for them to get their regular season done and play a conference championship game (perhaps by allowing them to start their regular season a week early) so be it. There should not be any preferential treatment though that gives the SWAC champion a competitive advantage over any other conference champion.

+1.

[Panther88]

Youngstown St played Alcorn back in the day when McNair was QB and putting up Tecmo Bowl numbers. it was a blowout.

Were they SWAC then?

Yes. I don't think Alcorn was balanced back then. All offense, hardly any defense. Since the offense stayed on the field a majority of the time and put up large #s, they were outscoring teams to win while not playing any semblance of sound defense, imho.

[JayJ79]

Perfect! MVFC, CAA, BSC, Southland, SoCon with autobids and 3 at large.

The Patriot can go piss up a rope.

Coincidentally, in this year's quarterfinals we have:
MVFC AQ: (NDSU)
CAA AQ: (UNH)
BSC AQ: (EWU)
Southland AQ: (SHSU)
SoCon AQ: (UTC)
and what could have been 3 at-larges (ILS definitely would have been picked as an AL, and Nova probably would have. the final spot probably would have come down to CCU and JSU)

I'm not saying they SHOULD drop back to 8 teams. The fact that all leagues that want representation (and meet the minimum requirements) get representation is what makes the FCS postseason a legitimate NCAA playoff, while the bowl system never has been.
I'm just saying that if they did switch to that, the end results wouldn't have changed that much this year.

[Sader87]

You sure could have fooled me. Despite miserable conditions there were loads of interested folks in Cowell Stadium this past Saturday, most spirited crowd of the season, without great student attendance. And I'm confident it will be the same this Friday night (with hopefully a better student turnout). Weather conditions wouldn't be any better anywhere in the US other than the Far South, Texas and Cali. It's not just a Northeast thing. And despite going into finals, I know my team is still managing very good graduation rates.

I was thinking that your school might have a great crowd at Fitton Field, that a playoff game with UNH, Maine, Albany, Villanova, Richmond or W&M could really rock the stadium, but maybe December football is just too cold for the Old Purple Sweaters. (For the record, I'm 64 and I was in the stands Saturday and will be again this Friday night.) Maybe the Patriot should have forgotten about going scholarship and just solidified the incestuous relationship with the Ivy.

God bless ya'.....lol, it's supposed to be 30 with freezing rain/snow Friday in Durham....you are a bettah man than I UNH-CT.

I dunno, times have changed....HC drew a then disappointing 13K for its one and only home FCS playoff game against Western Carolina in 1983. I doubt we'd get 5K today.

Good luck against Chatty.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Coincidentally, in this year's quarterfinals we have:
MVFC AQ: (NDSU)
CAA AQ: (UNH)
BSC AQ: (EWU)
Southland AQ: (SHSU)
SoCon AQ: (UTC)
and what could have been 3 at-larges (ILS definitely would have been picked as an AL, and Nova probably would have. the final spot probably would have come down to CCU and JSU)

I'm not saying they SHOULD drop back to 8 teams. The fact that all leagues that want representation (and meet the minimum requirements) get representation is what makes the FCS postseason a legitimate NCAA playoff, while the bowl system never has been.
I'm just saying that if they did switch to that, the end results wouldn't have changed that much this year.

See? easy peasy.

- - - Updated - - -


God bless ya'.....lol, it's supposed to be 30 with freezing rain/snow Friday in Durham....you are a bettah man than I UNH-CT.

I dunno, times have changed....HC drew a then disappointing 13K for its one and only home FCS playoff game against Western Carolina in 1983. I doubt we'd get 5K today.

Good luck against Chatty.

Don't you have hockey to worry about now?

[Sycamore62]

Coincidentally, in this year's quarterfinals we have:
MVFC AQ: (NDSU)
CAA AQ: (UNH)
BSC AQ: (EWU)
Southland AQ: (SHSU)
SoCon AQ: (UTC)
and what could have been 3 at-larges (ILS definitely would have been picked as an AL, and Nova probably would have. the final spot probably would have come down to CCU and JSU)

I'm not saying they SHOULD drop back to 8 teams. The fact that all leagues that want representation (and meet the minimum requirements) get representation is what makes the FCS postseason a legitimate NCAA playoff, while the bowl system never has been.
I'm just saying that if they did switch to that, the end results wouldn't have changed that much this year.

There would be fewer conferences that have more than 6-8 teams.

[Sader87]

Much like the FBS, the FCS playoff system has evolved into a process where the only schools/teams that have a legit shot come from our own "power conferences" (BSC, MVFC, CAA etc)....the 1st couple of rounds are basically window dressing.

I think you could go to a 8-team playoff in the FCS with a committee determining the field similar to the one the FBS uses now.

[lionsrking2]

Much like the FBS, the FCS playoff system has evolved into a process where the only schools/teams that have a legit shot come from our own "power conferences" (BSC, MVFC, CAA etc)....the 1st couple of rounds are basically window dressing.

I think you could go to a 8-team playoff in the FCS with a committee determining the field similar to the one the FBS uses now.

Nothing wrong with "window dressing," especially for those who make the playoffs. Barring a complete makeover of Division I football, the 24 team format is here to stay.

[JayJ79]

Much like the FBS, the FCS playoff system has evolved into a process where the only schools/teams that have a legit shot come from our own "power conferences" (BSC, MVFC, CAA etc)....the 1st couple of rounds are basically window dressing.

I think you could go to a 8-team playoff in the FCS with a committee determining the field similar to the one the FBS uses now.

Those with legit shots most often do come from the "power conferences", true.
But unlike the FBS, the teams from other conferences at least have a chance to make a run. There is zero way that can happen in the FBS currently.

[kalm]

Much like the FBS, the FCS playoff system has evolved into a process where the only schools/teams that have a legit shot come from our own "power conferences" (BSC, MVFC, CAA etc)....the 1st couple of rounds are basically window dressing.

I think you could go to a 8-team playoff in the FCS with a committee determining the field similar to the one the FBS uses now.

No. The playoffs have not evolved that process. The non-power conference schools need to schedule better, increase schollies, and provide a reason for a shot. BTW, it's happening right now with teams like Fordham, CCU, and Liberty, and in the OVC.

But what's wrong with extra games? I love every single playoff game we've ever hosted. We would have made an 8 team field 4 out of the last 5 years anyway, but the opportunity to play teams from difference conferences, not to mention the chance to see my own team play more games is outstanding. It's also good for the local businesses that benefit from playoff weekends.

Quit being a debbie downer...

[Professor Chaos]

Nothing wrong with "window dressing," especially for those who make the playoffs. Barring a complete makeover of Division I football, the 24 team format is here to stay.


Those with legit shots most often do come from the "power conferences", true.
But unlike the FBS, the teams from other conferences at least have a chance to make a run. There is zero way that can happen in the FBS currently.


No. The playoffs have not evolved that process. The non-power conference schools need to schedule better, increase schollies, and provide a reason for a shot. BTW, it's happening right now with teams like Fordham, CCU, and Liberty, and in the OVC.

But what's wrong with extra games? I love every single playoff game we've ever hosted. We would have made an 8 team field 4 out of the last 5 years anyway, but the opportunity to play teams from difference conferences, not to mention the chance to see my own team play more games is outstanding. It's also good for the local businesses that benefit from playoff weekends.

Quit being a debbie downer...

I agree with lionsrking, Jay, and kalm. Similar to the NCAA basketball tournament but on a smaller scale, for the schools from a non-power conference to make the championship is a great thing for those players, coaches, and fans. There's probably a good chunk of teams who played that Saturday after Thanksgiving that would honestly tell you they don't have what it takes to win a national title but winning a game or two in the playoffs and potentially getting on national TV in the quarters or semis is equivalent to them to a "power conference" team making a run to Frisco. These first couple weeks of the playoffs when each Saturday has 8 games against teams who are at or near the top of their league is a lot of fun to follow for a casual FCS football fan even if you don't have a rooting interest. We also get to see some really great games and really good finishes for some games that would never be played with a little 4 team tournament like the FBS has.

In the end the tournament is meant to determine a champion but have a little fun and enjoy the ride I say. Sports are meant to be entertainment and I'm not going to complain about getting some extra entertainment when the stakes are at their highest for the participating teams. There's no football like playoff football.

[LetsGoNova]

I think it's fair to say Liberty had more fans in the stands than Villanova. Granted it was crappy weather but that number is really bad.

It's also about half the number that were actually there. There were 2x as many Villanova fans as Liberty fans, and Liberty had a great showing.

[JSUBison]

Colgate in 2003 made the NC game, they showed it could be done. I know it's not exactly recent, but it's not leather helmet days either. It could be from Patriot, could be a Big South team, but it will happen again.

[major095]

I think the swac would love to participate in the playoffs, but since the fcs playoffs make money only for the ncaa how do you even begin to ask grambling and southern to give up a million dollar pay day? other thoughts. no one wants to see the swac and meac champ play in the 1st round, and the i'm sure swac schools want to host a playoff game every now and then instead of always being on the road(all things that happened in the past.)

[Pards Rule]

Colgate in 2003 made the NC game, they showed it could be done. I know it's not exactly recent, but it's not leather helmet days either. It could be from Patriot, could be a Big South team, but it will happen again.


Hopefully the Pards this time!

[GAD]

Much like the FBS, the FCS playoff system has evolved into a process where the only schools/teams that have a legit shot come from our own "power conferences" (BSC, MVFC, CAA etc)....the 1st couple of rounds are basically window dressing.

I think you could go to a 8-team playoff in the FCS with a committee determining the field similar to the one the FBS uses now.
IMO the playoffs are fine the way they are the system is not set up to make money or be popular with fans... its set up to crown a champion all you have to do is win to advance.

[Sycamore62]

I agree with lionsrking, Jay, and kalm. Similar to the NCAA basketball tournament but on a smaller scale, for the schools from a non-power conference to make the championship is a great thing for those players, coaches, and fans. There's probably a good chunk of teams who played that Saturday after Thanksgiving that would honestly tell you they don't have what it takes to win a national title but winning a game or two in the playoffs and potentially getting on national TV in the quarters or semis is equivalent to them to a "power conference" team making a run to Frisco. These first couple weeks of the playoffs when each Saturday has 8 games against teams who are at or near the top of their league is a lot of fun to follow for a casual FCS football fan even if you don't have a rooting interest. We also get to see some really great games and really good finishes for some games that would never be played with a little 4 team tournament like the FBS has.

In the end the tournament is meant to determine a champion but have a little fun and enjoy the ride I say. Sports are meant to be entertainment and I'm not going to complain about getting some extra entertainment when the stakes are at their highest for the participating teams. There's no football like playoff football.

I like 24 teams. It allowed us to prove that we would compete pretty good in some of the other conferences since the years when our former AD was passively aggressively trying to starve the program to death.

[Herder]

does the SWAC champ have a resume worthy of getting the #8 seed?

No they don't, that's why I called it a negotiation with the selection committee. If you want the SWAC to join, you have to extend an olive branch and give them an offer they can't refuse. Maybe they could give them a 5 year #8 seed exemption to get things started.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

In this tournament format 16 schools get to host NCAA playoff games. That is a pretty good feature.

[Sader87]

The fact remains though that the majority of these playoff games are drawing paltry crowds.....is this really a recipe for success moving forward???

[Sycamore62]

The fact remains though that the majority of these playoff games are drawing paltry crowds.....is this really a recipe for success moving forward???

Is having large crowds the goal?

[NY Crusader 2010]

The fact remains though that the majority of these playoff games are drawing paltry crowds.....is this really a recipe for success moving forward???

I always wished the playoffs would find ways to bring more people in. But it's always been this way.

[Sader87]

It's a sign of the times.....people just don't care about FCS playoff football outside of NDSU (and where would this tournament be without them these days?) and Montana.

I'm not against FCS playoff football in principle....but it seems a bit foolish to draw this out for 5 or so weeks when most crowds are in the 5K range.

Shorten it up....keep it to about 8 teams and you'll have a bettah product imo.

[Twentysix]

Just because a game sells out does not mean that every ticket is used. They announce the gate, not the tickets sold. Several people were holding tickets up in the lobby yesterday trying to sell them at a loss even just to recoup some of the money they spent. Usually due to unexpected situations or a person in their group had to work. I'm betting others just took the loss.

I don't think the band's seats count in the playoffs either, where as they do in the regular season. That represents at least 250 uncounted seats.

[kalm]

It's a sign of the times.....people just don't care about FCS playoff football outside of NDSU (and where would this tournament be without them these days?) and Montana.

I'm not against FCS playoff football in principle....but it seems a bit foolish to draw this out for 5 or so weeks when most crowds are in the 5K range.

Shorten it up....keep it to about 8 teams and you'll have a bettah product imo.

Wahn, Wahn, wahnnnnnn.

[Sader87]

Nobody really cares that much....end it in early December before final exams.....8 teams.

[citdog]

Sader your school is an ivy league wannabe schmeckle nuzzler not an actual ivy. when you get membership in that league you can just opt out of the playoffs

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Nobody really cares that much....end it in early December before final exams.....8 teams.

Attendance this time of year is tough for college athletics. Watch some of these on-campus college basketball games. There's a lot of empty seats that will be filled 5 weeks from now. People have better things to do one the weekends in December. There's holiday party's, kids are home from college, budgeting money, weather travel/issues etc. More people are worried about getting a Christmas tree this weekend and the NFL than they are college sports....

[Sader87]

Agreed, but we do keep the game of football in perspective vis a vis the grand scheme of things. There's no reason to be playing 17 or 18 football games.....foolishness on the NCAA's paht.

Play a nice regular season schedule and then maybe a 2 or 3 game at most post-season....anything more is ridiculous imo.

[ace93]

The FCS playoffs are smaller than most other college playoffs. Why does it have to be about money?

[citdog]

The FCS playoffs are smaller than most other college playoffs. Why does it have to be about money?

Dude this is the same bunch who attended schools test cost 65k a year and then cry poverty as the reason why they can't compete.

[Sader87]

The biggest problems with the FCS playoffs is that they end/take place right at the end of the Fall semestah academically, are played during a terrible time weather-wise and are much too protracted....other than that, they are fine.

8 teams.

[Cocky]

My reasoning, its too cold to drink and tailgate. We had as many people inside the club and suite level as outside. NDSU, inside, had a good crowd. Dome doesn't help tailgating but Southerners are soft when it come to cold weather.

[kalm]

My reasoning, its too cold to drink and tailgate. We had as many people inside the club and suite level as outside. NDSU, inside, had a good crowd. Dome doesn't help tailgating but Southerners are soft when it come to cold weather.

There is no such thing as bad weather…only bad clothing.

- ancient norse

- - - Updated - - -


My reasoning, its too cold to drink and tailgate. We had as many people inside the club and suite level as outside. NDSU, inside, had a good crowd. Dome doesn't help tailgating but Southerners are soft when it come to cold weather.

There is no such thing as bad weather…only bad clothing.

- norse

[kalm]

The biggest problems with the FCS playoffs is that they end/take place right at the end of the Fall semestah academically, are played during a terrible time weather-wise and are much too protracted....other than that, they are fine.

8 teams.

We get…you don't like fcs football all that much. Congrats!

[Sycamore62]

Holy ****, just turn the channel. If you want 8 teams start watching in the quarterfinals.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

There is no such thing as bad weather…only bad clothing.

- ancient norse


Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!! Waterproof boots, gore-tex rain suit, moisture wicking materials, thermals, etc. have met every challenge Mother Nature has thrown at me. Now, there have been games I couldn't drive to! :p :D

[Bisonator]

The biggest problems with the FCS playoffs is that they end/take place right at the end of the Fall semestah academically, are played during a terrible time weather-wise and are much too protracted....other than that, they are fine.

8 teams.

You don't need to worry since HC is finished way before the playoffs start. ;)

[Bisonator]

My reasoning, its too cold to drink and tailgate. We had as many people inside the club and suite level as outside. NDSU, inside, had a good crowd. Dome doesn't help tailgating but Southerners are soft when it come to cold weather.

Blasphemy! xdrunkyx

[kalm]

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!! Waterproof boots, gore-tex rain suit, moisture wicking materials, thermals, etc. have met every challenge Mother Nature has thrown at me. Now, there have been games I couldn't drive to! :p :D

Walled tents, propane fire pit, and Fireball are also your friends. When we pulled up to our spot before the SDSU game last year, the temp in my truck read -15. It was probably the best tailgate we ever had.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Walled tents, propane fire pit, and Fireball are also your friends. When we pulled up to our spot before the SDSU game last year, the temp in my truck read -15. It was probably the best tailgate we ever had.

I posted a picture in another thread of pretty much that same setup my friends put together. The UNH game last year was the first time I'd been to Fargo in about 6 years. Living in Ohio and Kansas, you kind of forget how cold it can really get. It was -15 when I pulled in to Fargo after leaving 50 degrees in Kansas. Shocker.

[Professor Chaos]

My reasoning, its too cold to drink and tailgate. We had as many people inside the club and suite level as outside. NDSU, inside, had a good crowd. Dome doesn't help tailgating but Southerners are soft when it come to cold weather.


Blasphemy! xdrunkyx
Only time it's too cold to drink is if your beer freezes before you can finish it.... and in most of those cases I'd argue that if that's the case you aren't drinking fast enough.

[Sader87]

We get…you don't like fcs football all that much. Congrats!

Untrue actually. I think the FCS is a great level of football. Still truly D1 on the playing-field but without much of the hypocrisy that is rampant at the FBS level, be it academic fraud, recruiting violations etc etc

The FCS playoff system has grown too large and too long is my major gripe.

You're always going to have arguments in college football, ala Baylor and TCU this year with the FBS playoffs, but i think if the FCS playoff system were capped at 8 teams it would be a better system all around.

[Pards Rule]

Untrue actually. I think the FCS is a great level of football. Still truly D1 on the playing-field but without much of the hypocrisy that is rampant at the FBS level, be it academic fraud, recruiting violations etc etc

The FCS playoff system has grown too large and too long is my major gripe.

You're always going to have arguments in college football, ala Baylor and TCU this year with the FBS playoffs, but i think if the FCS playoff system were capped at 8 teams it would be a better system all around.

Haha - I KNEW IT! I knew that this "golden plan" of final playoff which supposedly was going to kill the debate about the NC was going to be just one removed...Over who gets invited in the first place!!

[Grizalltheway]

Only time it's too cold to drink is if your beer freezes before you can finish it.... and in most of those cases I'd argue that if that's the case you aren't drinking fast enough.

Whiskey. Schnapps. Vodka. Pick your poison. xnodx

[Hammerhead]

So we should have a committee to select 4 teams? Ask Baylor and TCU fans how that works out. :)


Agreed, but we do keep the game of football in perspective vis a vis the grand scheme of things. There's no reason to be playing 17 or 18 football games.....foolishness on the NCAA's paht.

Play a nice regular season schedule and then maybe a 2 or 3 game at most post-season....anything more is ridiculous imo.

[EKU Toss Sweep]

Too much football? Are you people serious?

As a fan of a team, and I think the only team to play in every size and shape of 1AA/FCS playoffs to date (4, 8, 12, 16, 20 and 24) I think 24 is right. 4, 8 or 12 were not enough to determine a true National Champion. 20 was just weird. If I'm choosing between 16 and 24, I like the current system of rewarding the 8 best with a bye.

If it's too much football for you, just don't watch. If it's too cold for you, drink more bourbon.

[Sader87]

16, 17 and 18 game seasons are great for us to watch....not so great for the players who have to both play and study throughout December.

[Catsfan90]

Only time it's too cold to drink is if your beer freezes before you can finish it.... and in most of those cases I'd argue that if that's the case you aren't drinking fast enough.
It also needs to be pointed out that whiskey is one of the best body warmers around. So all the more reason to drink when its cold out.

[Catsfan90]

16, 17 and 18 game seasons are great for us to watch....not so great for the players who have to both play and study throughout December.
I understand your points, but if you read any of the press releases the kids absolutely love it. They have a blast, and this is the time of year they all play for.

[Professor Chaos]

It also needs to be pointed out that whiskey is one of the best body warmers around. So all the more reason to drink when its cold out.
True.

You know it's playoff time when you put your alcohol in a cooler so it doesn't freeze xthumbsupx

[Sycamore62]

Nobody playing 17 games thinks it's too much (12 regular season and making the NC game)

everyone playing less 16 or less wishes they played 17

[clenz]

Only time it's too cold to drink is if your beer freezes before you can finish it.... and in most of those cases I'd argue that if that's the case you aren't drinking fast enough.
That's when you switch to apple pie

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[clenz]

It also needs to be pointed out that whiskey is one of the best body warmers around. So all the more reason to drink when its cold out.
It doesn't actually warm you...it kills you're nerve system and stops you from realizing you're about to be hypothermic


/that guy

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Sycamore62]

It also needs to be pointed out that whiskey is one of the best body warmers around. So all the more reason to drink when its cold out.

Lets not forget how attractive it makes women and how funny and tough it makes me

[Sader87]

Question: will the NDSU game outdraw the other 3 quarterfinal games collectively? I'm guessing it's going to be close.

[BisonFan02]

It doesn't actually warm you...it kills you're nerve system and stops you from realizing you're about to be hypothermic


/that guy

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Circa December of 2011...when the non-reserved tailgate lot was still grass.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/386735_533471303089_960873823_n.jpg?oh=21c4aff2cff b5a45b091caf20862f8c5&oe=55199CD8

You may be asking yourself...is that a coffee urn full of hot chocolate?.....yes

You may also be asking yourself...is that a big bottle of peppermint schnapps next to it?.....yes

Did BisonFan02 **** it all up and end up mixing it with a wrench..........yes. xlolx

Pretty sure this is one of the many reasons I gave up the booze. :D

[TheKingpin28]

That picture reminds of last week's game where I brought in a flask or 3. The place we were tailgating we gerbaling fireball and had a beer bong with a release valve. I thought that was neat until I got to my seats and pulled out a flask and the people around me said, don't worry, and pull out a small bottle of jack. I thought my 3 jack flasks were good enough.

[citdog]

gerbaling fireball [/QUOTE]

with Richard Gere?

[Bisonator]

You know it's cold when you have to spike the chili with whiskey!:D

[Pards Rule]

Circa December of 2011...when the non-reserved tailgate lot was still grass.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/386735_533471303089_960873823_n.jpg?oh=21c4aff2cff b5a45b091caf20862f8c5&oe=55199CD8

You may be asking yourself...is that a coffee urn full of hot chocolate?.....yes

You may also be asking yourself...is that a big bottle of peppermint schnapps next to it?.....yes

Did BisonFan02 **** it all up and end up mixing it with a wrench..........yes. xlolx

Pretty sure this is one of the many reasons I gave up the booze. :D

Hey I remember this lot! Its on the far (western) side of the treeline right? I tailgated here in Sept 2011 then went over to go to the NDSU tailgates I was invited to. What do you mean - they paved this over?!? Are they nuts? Why would they ruin a nice field!

[clenz]

Circa December of 2011...when the non-reserved tailgate lot was still grass.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/386735_533471303089_960873823_n.jpg?oh=21c4aff2cff b5a45b091caf20862f8c5&oe=55199CD8

You may be asking yourself...is that a coffee urn full of hot chocolate?.....yes

You may also be asking yourself...is that a big bottle of peppermint schnapps next to it?.....yes

Did BisonFan02 **** it all up and end up mixing it with a wrench..........yes. xlolx

Pretty sure this is one of the many reasons I gave up the booze. :DIs that a Grain Belt Nordeast?

I'm all for drinking anything you like, regardless what people think of it, but....

come on.....


Can we get anymore stereotypical than that?

[BisonFan02]

Hey I remember this lot! Its on the far (western) side of the treeline right? I tailgated here in Sept 2011 then went over to go to the NDSU tailgates I was invited to. What do you mean - they paved this over?!? Are they nuts? Why would they ruin a nice field!

All paved now...north half is a new reserved section, and the south half is still GA. The two positives I guess is that it is more organized as far as parking (can get more people in there), and it isn't as much of a muddy mess for a good part of the year. The picture is actually from the Lehigh playoff game that season.

[kalm]

16, 17 and 18 game seasons are great for us to watch....not so great for the players who have to both play and study throughout December.

Eastern football GPA is consistently higher than the average student's. We need more games or your athletes need to learn time management.

Besides, 16 and 17 are not during school.

[Sycamore62]

This "its harder for the players to study" is a bunch of bull****. other sports are gone during the week and play through finals ect.

If you dont like the playoffs, dont participate. other people have jobs while they are in school. It's not that big of a deal.

All it does is cut in to your party time on the weekends.

[ace93]

This "its harder for the players to study" is a bunch of bull****. other sports are gone during the week and play through finals ect.

If you dont like the playoffs, dont participate. other people have jobs while they are in school. It's not that big of a deal.

All it does is cut in to your party time on the weekends.

Well said. The time allowed for practice is actually extremely limited in the grand scheme of things anyway. There is plenty of time to study and plenty of time to party too, though they should probably limit that during the season and especially during the playoffs.

[Sader87]

I'm not saying it (studying and continuing to play deep into December) can't be done but is it really optimal?

Are games that are going to draw 5K or so at Villanova and UNH this weekend really worth the time and the trouble to everyone involved???

To the vast majority of fans here I know it is....I'm just of the belief that it is overkill....ultimately more detrimental than positive.

End the playoff system by early December sometime....if need be, keep the FCS championship in early January much like the FBS will do with their playoff system.

[clenz]

What's the difference between fitting class and games together in December and September?

So games that don't draw and no one cares shouldn't be played? Good bye holy cross football

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Daytripper]

I'm not saying it (studying and continuing to play deep into December) can't be done but is it really optimal?

Are games that are going to draw 5K or so at Villanova and UNH this weekend really worth the time and the trouble to everyone involved???

To the vast majority of fans here I know it is....I'm just of the belief that it is overkill....ultimately more detrimental than positive.

End the playoff system by early December sometime....if need be, keep the FCS championship in early January much like the FBS will do with their playoff system.

If we could make everything "optimal" we would all be rich and married to a nymphomaniac supermodel.

[Sycamore62]

How many people would show up for a national championship game played in either of those towns if they only had 4 teams that made the playoffs. Drop football if your attendance isnt enough to play a game.

Id say for the 5k that show up, it is worth their time. ask the players and coaches if they'd rather forfeit.

I think the playoffs are better since they expanded.

[BisonFan02]

Is that a Grain Belt Nordeast?

I'm all for drinking anything you like, regardless what people think of it, but....

come on.....


Can we get anymore stereotypical than that?

Yeah....I can't claim the Nordeast was mine...here was my "hijack of choice" back in the day.... :D

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/552284_10151126344478889_1969951555_n.jpg?oh=0e52c bbe6a162ab1a21e4dc4a7dec0f0&oe=5545466F&__gda__=1430781536_6089a668fd6eca4f8b1dcba676bc96f d

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yeah....I can't claim the Nordeast was mine...here was my "hijack of choice" back in the day.... :D

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/552284_10151126344478889_1969951555_n.jpg?oh=0e52c bbe6a162ab1a21e4dc4a7dec0f0&oe=5545466F&__gda__=1430781536_6089a668fd6eca4f8b1dcba676bc96f d

That was my trading commodity of choice when I lived in Ohio. Since I moved to Kansas, I have nothing.

[BisonFan02]

That was my trading commodity of choice when I lived in Ohio. Since I moved to Kansas, I have nothing.

I lived out in the Lebanon Valley in PA for a few years, and I lived off of "Lager"...used to go back to PA pretty often for work, but that has since changed.

[Sader87]

What's the difference between fitting class and games together in December and September?

So games that don't draw and no one cares shouldn't be played? Good bye holy cross football

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Games in early/mid December start creeping in on and then overlap with "reading/review periods" and final exams themselves. A much more intensive academic period than September and October.

People still care about HC football, maybe not as much as in the past, but they still drew fairly decently at home this year despite a poor home schedule (no home games in October), no real marquee home opponent outside of Fordham.

[clenz]

Games in early/mid December start creeping in on and then overlap with "reading/review periods" and final exams themselves. A much more intensive academic period than September and October.

People still care about HC football, maybe not as much as in the past, but they still drew fairly decently at home this year despite a poor home schedule (no home games in October), no real marquee home opponent outside of Fordham.
If they've done their work August through November the finals period isn't as bad as people make it - especially when football players/athletes have amazing access to tutors and help through the semester...at least at UNI they do, I can't imagine UNI is able to give something that places like Nova, Montana, Holy Cross, etc...can't.


Holy Cross averaged less than 7k per game this year. Only once were they over 6,400. They were under 6200 in 3 of their 5 home games...including 5,043 for one of them

6172
6379
10002
6142
5043

I struggle to see how that low of an attendance is "really worth the time and the trouble to everyone involved". Plus the time away from studying/reading/tests/etc... during the semester.

I really think HC should cut football

[Sader87]

If they've done their work August through November the finals period isn't as bad as people make it - especially when football players/athletes have amazing access to tutors and help through the semester...at least at UNI they do, I can't imagine UNI is able to give something that places like Nova, Montana, Holy Cross, etc...can't.


Holy Cross averaged less than 7k per game this year. Only once were they over 6,400. They were under 6200 in 3 of their 5 home games...including 5,043 for one of them

6172
6379
10002
6142
5043

I struggle to see how that low of an attendance is "really worth the time and the trouble to everyone involved". Plus the time away from studying/reading/tests/etc... during the semester.

I really think HC should cut football

You wouldn't be the first person to propose that, believe me.

HC doesn't draw like it used to for a host of reasons: not winning, playing at a lower-level than it used to until the revival of scholarships 2 years ago, all the reasons that most other schools aren't drawing etc etc.

That being said, like all schools, football plays an important part of student and alumni life at HC: Homecoming, Parent's Weekend, President's Council, rivalry games etc etc that offsets (not monetarily but philosophically) the $$$ going to HC football.

I don't think it translates as much though to the FCS playoffs (amoungst HC alums and fans anyway). HC actually chose to play BC a couple of times in the 1980s in lieu of playing in the FCS playoffs.

Not saying "I'm (or HC) is right and you're wrong" vis a vis the playoffs...just that not everyone thinks the playoffs is the be all and end all.

[Pards Rule]

I lived out in the Lebanon Valley in PA for a few years, and I lived off of "Lager"...used to go back to PA pretty often for work, but that has since changed.


Yes! Coach Tavani is a Lebanon Valley College alum and former RB for them.

[ace93]

If we could make everything "optimal" we would all be rich and married to a nymphomaniac supermodel.

It can be exhausting, but I'm happy.

[Daytripper]

It can be exhausting, but I'm happy.

Video evidence, please.

[BisonFan02]

Yes! Coach Tavani is a Lebanon Valley College alum and former RB for them.

I lived where you shouldn't drink the koolaid...if you know what I mean.... xlolx

[Milktruck74]

My school won the conference championship. Not really irrelevant to fans of my school. Rather than launch into a diatribe I'll ask why do you make that statement? What experiences do you have that lead you to that conclusion?

Why irrelevant? Let me ask a few more questions, ones that ae probably quite relevant. Does Chatt generate a profit from football? Will your school or any school make any direct money from playoff participation? If Chattanooga wins the FCS playoffs, looking at the checkbook, would you rather have the money from the swac title game or from all of your games in the fcs playoffs? When you go to work, do you go to work for free or pay your employer for the honor of being the employee? Have things that don't make dollars often made sense to you?

When you can make money, things that don't... make money.... are irrelevant. And before you totally try and discount that thought, Chattanooga thought enough of the classic model that many hbcus employ that they attempted to do the same things many years ago. In fact Alcorn participated in a classic game with Chattanooga (forgot what you guys called it) I do remember Alcorn put up more points than alabama did on chatt the week before. I believe we also help set a stadium attendance record at the time. See, Chatt wanted to make some money too.


Based on how you read my response, I deserve this...

I did not mean the teams were irrelevant. Congrats btw. I meant MANY that showed up and purchased tickets would have shown up regardless of what team was there. IT is the Atmosphere around the game that draws crowds. The owner of the Chattanooga Lookouts gets this...they are one of the best attended minor league teams of all time, and it isnt because they have winning seasons. quite the opposite. People show up because it is fun...it is a party that happens while a baseball game happens to be going on. The rest of the FCS schools could learn alot from this model. Honest question,how many people would have attended the SWAC championship game if the only thing going on was the game?

I would absolutely love to see my Mocs have the fan support that shows up at the this game. I loved the Chattanooga Classic Game and wish we still did it it was always well attended, but the truth was out of 17,000 fans...12,000 were there to seee the TSU band!!!! Also, I played in that clinic that Steve McNair put on in Chattanooga and I'm glad we played MVSU the next year, because it was an easy win and those were difficult to come by back then. I wasn't calling the game irrelevant. I DO however, wish y'all would play in the FCS playoffs, but financially it may not be the best move for you....

[GAD]

Based on how you read my response, I deserve this...

I did not mean the teams were irrelevant. Congrats btw. I meant MANY that showed up and purchased tickets would have shown up regardless of what team was there. IT is the Atmosphere around the game that draws crowds. The owner of the Chattanooga Lookouts gets this...they are one of the best attended minor league teams of all time, and it isnt because they have winning seasons. quite the opposite. People show up because it is fun...it is a party that happens while a baseball game happens to be going on. The rest of the FCS schools could learn alot from this model. Honest question,how many people would have attended the SWAC championship game if the only thing going on was the game?

I would absolutely love to see my Mocs have the fan support that shows up at the this game. I loved the Chattanooga Classic Game and wish we still did it it was always well attended, but the truth was out of 17,000 fans...12,000 were there to seee the TSU band!!!! Also, I played in that clinic that Steve McNair put on in Chattanooga and I'm glad we played MVSU the next year, because it was an easy win and those were difficult to come by back then. I wasn't calling the game irrelevant. I DO however, wish y'all would play in the FCS playoffs, but financially it may not be the best move for you....
It's hard to tell how many may have shown up cause both of these teams have a pretty good fan following

[Milktruck74]

It's hard to tell how many may have shown up cause both of these teams have a pretty good fan following


Well look at the numbers from when SU played Alcorn during the regular season.... almost 19,000 (still a great number, but) not 39000. I realize more should tend to show up at a Championship game, but a good argument could be made that the teams were irrelevant (careful how I use that this time) to about 20,000 of the fans that showed up. They would have been there for the EVENT...Not the Game. I still contend the SWAC Championship is a Cultural Event. Albeit, one that many FCS ADs should take note of!!!!

[Bisonoline]

NDSU will NEVER sell out a Playoff game. We always claim less tickets sold than the 19k number because they don't want to share that revenue with the NCAA. The only playoff game we've never had a sold out crowd was the first game in 2010 against Robert Morris. 12k there.

Really????

[GAD]

Well look at the numbers from when SU played Alcorn during the regular season.... almost 19,000 (still a great number, but) not 39000. I realize more should tend to show up at a Championship game, but a good argument could be made that the teams were irrelevant (careful how I use that this time) to about 20,000 of the fans that showed up. They would have been there for the EVENT...Not the Game. I still contend the SWAC Championship is a Cultural Event. Albeit, one that many FCS ADs should take note of!!!!
It also depends on where its played in 2013 it was played in front of 27K

[IBleedYellow]

Really????
We've talked about this on BV before... Hell we've talked about it last year when our nuts were freezing off tailgating for the UNH game.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

[Milktruck74]

It also depends on where its played in 2013 it was played in front of 27K


I couldn't agree more. The Weather and venue have a huge determining factor on the SWAC Championship attendance, which lends to my argument that it's more of an EVENT then the actual game.

[BluBengal07]

I couldn't agree more. The Weather and venue have a huge determining factor on the SWAC Championship attendance, which lends to my argument that it's more of an EVENT then the actual game.

i wouldn't say huge, but an impact collectively. when the game was in Birmingham, there were large crowds for the outside venue in a not so major city; 47,621 (1999), 38,487 (2001), 43,206 (2007). i can't provide weather detail though. Last year (1st SWAC in Houston), Texas was having an ice storm throughout the state so 100s/1000s of folks were strained at airports. however, the attendance was still 38,985 (more than this year, with great weather and venue).

it is more on who is playing. teams that have a strong following are Southern, Jackson State and Grambling (this was Alcorn's 1st SCG experience and they did show up though).

i would actually call it more of an EXPERIENCE with events throughout the weekend and a game to top it off.

[Professor Chaos]

We've talked about this on BV before... Hell we've talked about it last year when our nuts were freezing off tailgating for the UNH game.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator
Yeah, I agree. If you count bodies (of non-essential event personnel) in the building I'd bet it's been between 18,700 and a shade over 19,000 for almost every playoff game during this run (with the exception of that first game against JMU in 2011) but the highest reported attendance is 18,694 against UNH in last year's semifinal. There must be some loophole that the school takes advantage of, perhaps complimentary tickets awarded to each school by the NCAA and the band seats, that allows them to discount some tickets and causes official attendance to be under-reported.

[AmsterBison]

Yeah, I agree. If you count bodies (of non-essential event personnel) in the building I'd bet it's been between 18,700 and a shade over 19,000 for almost every playoff game during this run (with the exception of that first game against JMU in 2011) but the highest reported attendance is 18,694 against UNH in last year's semifinal. There must be some loophole that the school takes advantage of, perhaps complimentary tickets awarded to each school by the NCAA and the band seats, that allows them to discount some tickets and causes official attendance to be under-reported.

Pretty sure schools report paid attendance for playoff games and that would exclude, for example, the band.

It is absolutely ludicrous and irresponsible to suggest that NDSU is trying to defraud the NCAA. First, the NCAA does not collect money based on attendance. Second, that information would be subject to an open records request. Third, you'd have to believe that NDSU administrators are so colossally stupid that they'd risk everything for a couple thousand dollars.

Note: I realize it is IBleedYellow making the preposterous claim about NDSU lying to the NCAA - I'm responding more to the conversation than your post in particular.

[Sycamore62]

I like that we are talking about universities that cant count. (mine included)

[clenz]

Pretty sure schools report paid attendance for playoff games and that would exclude, for example, the band.


when most schools report "attendance" for regular season games (football, basketball, volleyball, women's basketball, etc...) they will report tickets sold plus band, cheerleaders, school officials, etc... Basically it's a body in the building. I am very familiar with this topic based on jobs I've had previously

That changes when the NCAA starts taking their cut

[Professor Chaos]

Pretty sure schools report paid attendance for playoff games and that would exclude, for example, the band.

It is absolutely ludicrous and irresponsible to suggest that NDSU is trying to defraud the NCAA. First, the NCAA does not collect money based on attendance. Second, that information would be subject to an open records request. Third, you'd have to believe that NDSU administrators are so colossally stupid that they'd risk everything for a couple thousand dollars.

Note: I realize it is IBleedYellow making the preposterous claim about NDSU lying to the NCAA - I'm responding more to the conversation than your post in particular.
Oh, I don't know if he meant that. I certainly didn't take it that way. I was agreeing with the fact that attendance isn't reported the same way in postseason games as it is in the regular season like clenz alluded to. NDSU isn't doing anything that any other school doesn't do when they report attendance in the playoffs. It's a common theme from people who attended playoff games in person around the country to look at the reported attendance and say "there had to be more than that". Nothing fraudulent with what they're doing, they're actually probably just being more honest about paid attendance than they are in the regular season.

[AmsterBison]

when most schools report "attendance" for regular season games (football, basketball, volleyball, women's basketball, etc...) they will report tickets sold plus band, cheerleaders, school officials, etc... Basically it's a body in the building. I am very familiar with this topic based on jobs I've had previously

That changes when the NCAA starts taking their cut

A lot of schools report wishful thinking for attendance in the regular season. I've seen games where the attendance was obviously over-reported by a factor of two or three.

NDSU is pretty accurate about counting. For regular season games, I think that I remember the AD saying that NDSU counts people through the turnstyles (when it was more flattering to count tickets sold, back in the days of no-shows, NDSU counted tickets sold.) I'm also pretty sure that in the postseason, NDSU switches to counting paid attendance. The band doesn't pay to get into the game so they don't get counted. Not sure how many other people get in free, but Georgia Southern game was full to bursting and they reported about 250 less than capacity so I'm guessing that almost 500 to 600 people got in free since there were people in standing-room-only parts of the concourse.

[clenz]

Oh, I don't know if he meant that. I certainly didn't take it that way. I was agreeing with the fact that attendance isn't reported the same way in postseason games as it is in the regular season like clenz alluded to. NDSU isn't doing anything that any other school doesn't do when they report attendance in the playoffs. It's a common theme from people who attended playoff games in person around the country to look at the reported attendance and say "there had to be more than that". Nothing fraudulent with what they're doing, they're actually probably just being more honest about paid attendance than they are in the regular season.
Exactly.


This is how attendance reporting works at 90+% of NCAA regular season events (any sport and any game)..I typically hate to say "trust me"...but...trust me. This is one of the few things I know from experience

Total Tickets Sold/Comped
+
band members
+
officials
+
school officials from bother schools that don't have a ticket
+
media passes
+
concessions crew
=
attendance (if the number looks too out of whack they will adjust it to a "more reasonable" level by taking less than 300 off of it)


Some schools average tickets sold, actual bodies in building, and spectators in seats.

Some schools will add some of those categories but not all depending what the Fire Marshall will actually allow in the building




When playoffs come it is strictly tickets sold because money is involved.




I will also tell you that no event is ever 100% sold out. Depending on the venue and type of event it is there is always seats seat aside of not for sale on the back side to be used as trouble seats should anything happen, or should some "VIP" want tickets last minute, etc... I can tell you that most FCS venues over 13-14k will have about 100-200 seats on any given week that will go unsold because they were never put up for sale. Most basketball games in venues that are 5-10k will have between 50-100 seats unsold each week because they are held

[Sycamore62]

they counted my pregnant wife as 2

The did me the same way for a while but I cut out the carbs