CBS Article on NDSU Going FBS

[No_Skill]

Interesting read

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24495371/north-dakota-states-big-success-leading-toward-a-big-decision

[citdog]

what always makes me laugh when the national douches write a story about the FCS is that they just don't seem to be able to understand how some people are happy to be FCS and don't have schmeckle envy of others like GSwho? and yosef.

[bonarae]

I somewhat agree with Dodd. The FCS programs who move up to FBS are mixed bags that are dependent on how the administration (president and AD) handles their athletic programs. (See Boise State and UMass, these are contrasting programs that moved up.) For programs that transitioned from Division II to Division I with football as one of their move-up sports (Omaha isn't counted because they dropped football before moving up), they have been better in football, but somewhat otherwise in other sports. (See NDSU)

[Apphole]

what always makes me laugh when the national douches write a story about the FCS is that they just don't seem to be able to understand how some people are happy to be FCS and don't have schmeckle envy of others like GSwho? and yosef.

That's great that you're content with not having a penis. The football thing too.

[centennial]

That's great that you're content with not having a penis. The football thing too.
You think small schools should burden their students with additional fees so they can play with the big boys while making a loss? The bottom of the FBS is no better than top FCS schools with more student fees or state funding. When app gets to the point where you make a profit you can come back and talk ****.

[IBleedYellow]

I'm not sure what to think...this would be the time to do it, but almost all of the conferences that would possibly even want us would have us playing less competitive football (as in the conferences suck.), so screw that.

PLUS, I was watching the C-USA basketball conference games, that place was EMPTY, at least we are able to have a decent conference tournament with good showing.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm not sure what to think...this would be the time to do it, but almost all of the conferences that would possibly even want us would have us playing less competitive football (as in the conferences suck.), so screw that.

PLUS, I was watching the C-USA basketball conference games, that place was EMPTY, at least we are able to have a decent conference tournament with good showing.

Not sure if having the tournament in El Paso is a recipe for success. This isn't 1966....

[Yotes]

Being a big fish in a small pond has to be better than the tiny fish in the ocean. There are like 8 bowl games worth getting excited about at the FBS level, and there is just no way NDSU is good enough to reach that echelon. Competing for National Championships is a heck of a lot more fun than going to the Idaho Potato Bowl, at best.

[IBleedYellow]

Not sure if having the tournament in El Paso is a recipe for success. This isn't 1966....

OH trust me, I know. It was just sad.

[clenz]

I'm not sure what to think...this would be the time to do it, but almost all of the conferences that would possibly even want us would have us playing less competitive football (as in the conferences suck.), so screw that.

PLUS, I was watching the C-USA basketball conference games, that place was EMPTY, at least we are able to have a decent conference tournament with good showing.

What does the turnout in the summit tourny look like if the DSUs aren't the top teams? What does it look like if it isn't held an hour from one and 4 from the other?

[IBleedYellow]

What does the turnout in the summit tourny look like if the DSUs aren't the top teams? What does it look like if it isn't held an hour from one and 4 from the other?

There are quite a few locals that actually go every year from Sioux Falls. I can't answer for sure considering the xDSU's have been in the title game for 5 years straight now basically.

[citdog]

That's great that you're content with not having a penis. The football thing too.


We SURELY showed ours to be MUCH larger the last two times we met on the field.

Need a refresher?


https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/RvKvSYkmju2eaWYnKVXVwplexI6UMUMOEMKlMcIjNtlyCRpKm9 RA1znkavtUFO9-Viy58ILSccwFTys2dhANnELFpIPTUvcuzuoYeoDP30XbQ4d-GQ6vr6N8CrJH=s0-d-e1-ft#http://citadelsports.com/sports/fball/2013-14/photos/0014/Warren_FG.jpg

[PaladinFan]

What I find a little amusing is in 40 minutes of basketball Mercer established a level of notoriety Georgia Southern will probably never obtain playing in years of SunBelt.

I take it back, they did get a little air time for beating the worst Florida team since the late 70s. Outside of their fan base, that game has largely been forgotten. You will see replays of Mercer beating Duke for years.

[Professor Chaos]

NDSU has no FBS options right now so the discussion is pretty much moot. If NDSU goes FBS, it'll have to be a collaborative effort with one or more regional partners like Montana, Montana St, Northern Iowa, or SDSU. No FBS conference is interested in a geographic outlier with the size of the Fargo TV market and the size of the Fargodome. There just isn't any appeal there to Presidents and ADs from schools in Michigan, California, or Florida and those are the things that drive conference movement.

I think NDSU will move up to at least the lower tier of the FBS (if the Big 5 break away in football) but it won't be until our geographic peers are prepared to do it as well.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Why is the rest of the success contingent on FBS? Villanova seems to be chugging along quite nicely as an FCS school with an exceptional basketball team. They are near the top of FCS, winning a championship as recently as 2009. FCS is a good place for NDSU, mostly because FBS is a wasteland of haves/have nots. Why move up to be a have-not?

[Bisonator]

Why is the rest of the success contingent on FBS? Villanova seems to be chugging along quite nicely as an FCS school with an exceptional basketball team. They are near the top of FCS, winning a championship as recently as 2009. FCS is a good place for NDSU, mostly because FBS is a wasteland of haves/have nots. Why move up to be a have-not?

I agree until or if the FBS playoff is expanded or more quality FCS teams bolt. I do not want to stay FCS if the likes of UNI, Montana, Montana State, JMU, etc. leave for FBS. Right now FCS is the place for NDSU, get back to me in 3-5 years and that may change.

[NDSUstudent]

I agree until or if the FBS playoff is expanded or more quality FCS teams bolt. I do not want to stay FCS if the likes of UNI, Montana, Montana State, JMU, etc. leave for FBS. Right now FCS is the place for NDSU, get back to me in 3-5 years and that may change.

We went from: "There is "not a lot" of talk about moving up, according to NDSU AD Gene Taylor."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24156447/no-fbs-fcs-north-dakota-state-is-fbs-top-25-caliber

To Gene Taylor actually discussing it. Just my opinion, but I think Gene Taylor's thinking about moving up is slowly changing.

[clenz]

We went from: "There is "not a lot" of talk about moving up, according to NDSU AD Gene Taylor."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24156447/no-fbs-fcs-north-dakota-state-is-fbs-top-25-caliber

To Gene Taylor actually discussing it. Just my opinion, but I think Gene Taylor's thinking about moving up is slowly changing.
I wonder if there is something going on.

UNI's AD said about 2 years ago that within 5-7 years UNI would decide if we were going to move. That was before the president at the time decided to retire and we hired a new one. Since that happened there hasn't been much said...before that there was a TON of smoke. The new president has been VERY pro athletics in the past. I'm wondering if it's been quiet to calm the storm of closing price lab and get President Ruud through his first year then start talking again. If Taylor - who is a lot like Dannen in that he is VERY measured in his statements - is talking...I'll stop there but I have my suspicions right now.

[Bisonator]

We went from: "There is "not a lot" of talk about moving up, according to NDSU AD Gene Taylor."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24156447/no-fbs-fcs-north-dakota-state-is-fbs-top-25-caliber

To Gene Taylor actually discussing it. Just my opinion, but I think Gene Taylor's thinking about moving up is slowly changing.

Gene has been saying the same thing since all of the conference realignment started. We are not looking to move up but that could change depending on the changing landscape.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The SHAC should tell you all you need to know about any move to FBS. It was an enormous hill to climb to get that funded. Now try that every year.

[buffalobill]

In all reality FCS football is the Div 2 of old and with the departures of late NDSU runs the risk of going back to the future. All the other programs have to ultimately compete at the highest level, why should football be any different. Are the plumbers. the pharmacists, the nurses, the farmers, the doctors, you name the profession or business, as good and competitive as anyone in the country? Of course they are! Let's stop making excuses about this and do what should have been done 40 years ago. In my opinion it will not be stadiums, they can be built, It will not be finances, the resources are there, in the end like the original move to Div 1 it will be done by vision, leadership, and ingenuity. Those last three characteristics can be damn hard to come by. I believe we can get it done, but I believe if we just wait and react we will end up with leftovers.

[darell1976]

Is there many FBS teams that are in different conferences for football and basketball? Could NDSU be in the MAC or SB for football and Summit League for basketball? The team that comes to my mind for this is Idaho, who will be in the SB for football but moving back to the Big Sky for the Olympic sports starting this season. Just thinking of travel costs (I know so says the UND fan).

[ursus arctos horribilis]

In all reality FCS football is the Div 2 of old and with the departures of late NDSU runs the risk of going back to the future. All the other programs have to ultimately compete at the highest level, why should football be any different. Are the plumbers. the pharmacists, the nurses, the farmers, the doctors, you name the profession or business, as good and competitive as anyone in the country? Of course they are! Let's stop making excuses about this and do what should have been done 40 years ago. In my opinion it will not be stadiums, they can be built, It will not be finances, the resources are there, in the end like the original move to Div 1 it will be done by vision, leadership, and ingenuity. Those last three characteristics can be damn hard to come by. I believe we can get it done, but I believe if we just wait and react we will end up with leftovers.

It's all leftovers with a different name after the BCS so you may as well get that through your head. At this point you can't afford to live there but you want to buy the house in the neighborhood and pay the extra just so you can say "Our new address is...".

But if your school does want to pay for it then more power to ya, ya just ain't getting anything more for it.

[buffalobill]

It's all leftovers with a different name after the BCS so you may as well get that through your head. At this point you can't afford to live there but you want to buy the house in the neighborhood and pay the extra just so you can say "Our new address is...".

But if your school does want to pay for it then more power to ya, ya just ain't getting anything more for it.
Your attitude is indicative of why the last three times NDSU has played Montana U and the record is Bison 3 Griz 0. In fact the last time we beat you we only had 36 scholarships to your 63 so playing up and winning is not impossible. Additionally 7-3 against FBS competition is just further proof that it can be done and all of those were 63 schollies against 85 and on the road for each contest as well. I will agree that moving up to the Sun Belt, MAC, Conf USA, are pointless. The Big12, Big 10, and just possibly the MWC are the main points of emphasis on any transition. The MWC might be the only conference that could survive the shakeout taking place in major college football.

Playing against peer institutions should be the only goal for public/land grant/flagship/research universities especially in football. Imo there will be a 16 team or more playoff in major college football within the next decade or so and as that happens the FCS playoffs will become even more of an afterthought much like what has happened to the NIT, CBI, and CIT BB tourneys. xthumbsupx

[Bisonator]

Your attitude is indicative of why the last three times NDSU has played Montana U and the record is Bison 3 Griz 0. In fact the last time we beat you we only had 36 scholarships to your 63 so playing up and winning is not impossible. Additionally 7-3 against FBS competition is just further proof that it can be done and all of those were 63 schollies against 85 and on the road for each contest as well. I will agree that moving up to the Sun Belt, MAC, Conf USA, are pointless. The Big12, Big 10, and just possibly the MWC are the main points of emphasis on any transition. The MWC might be the only conference that could survive the shakeout taking place in major college football.

Playing against peer institutions should be the only goal for public/land grant/flagship/research universities especially in football. Imo there will be a 16 team or more playoff in major college football within the next decade or so and as that happens the FCS playoffs will become even more of an afterthought much like what has happened to the NIT, CBI, and CIT BB tourneys. xthumbsupx

Let me know when we get the invite? xlolx

[Bisonator]

It's all leftovers with a different name after the BCS so you may as well get that through your head. At this point you can't afford to live there but you want to buy the house in the neighborhood and pay the extra just so you can say "Our new address is...".

But if your school does want to pay for it then more power to ya, ya just ain't getting anything more for it.

I agree, for now at least. If other FCS schools like I mentioned continue to leave though it's definitely going to influence decisions. I'm sure UM and MSU are keeping a watchful eye as well.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Your attitude is indicative of why the last three times NDSU has played Montana U and the record is Bison 3 Griz 0. In fact the last time we beat you we only had 36 scholarships to your 63 so playing up and winning is not impossible. Additionally 7-3 against FBS competition is just further proof that it can be done and all of those were 63 schollies against 85 and on the road for each contest as well. I will agree that moving up to the Sun Belt, MAC, Conf USA, are pointless. The Big12, Big 10, and just possibly the MWC are the main points of emphasis on any transition. The MWC might be the only conference that could survive the shakeout taking place in major college football.

Playing against peer institutions should be the only goal for public/land grant/flagship/research universities especially in football. Imo there will be a 16 team or more playoff in major college football within the next decade or so and as that happens the FCS playoffs will become even more of an afterthought much like what has happened to the NIT, CBI, and CIT BB tourneys. xthumbsupx

How exactly is my attitude that a move up is not a move up or at least a very slight move up for the oodles of extra money spent indicative of anything to do with lesser schollies winning? Poor attempt at a jab there brother but so be it. Montana has a lot of games with less scholarships so I know the point well.

If there is an opening in any of those conferences then it would by all mean make sense to move if it gave a chance at a playoff. It's not the case now and won't be. Dealing in reality you have the afterscraps to possible go to.

Even if your team is very, very good like Boise you get nothing but the finger from the big schools. If that changes then hell I'll line up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the issue.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree, for now at least. If other FCS schools like I mentioned continue to leave though it's definitely going to influence decisions. I'm sure UM and MSU are keeping a watchful eye as well.

Absolutely and I feel the same as you do. Thing is when a few teams move in the past it happens in short order as it has here and then it zeroes out again for a while...about 10 yrs. then everyone gets uncomfortable again and coferences change etc. This last round is fairly unprecented of course.

[buffalobill]

Let me know when we get the invite? xlolx

If we can't get into one of those three leagues(Big 10, Big 12, or MWC) we might as well continue to play in our present 2nd level league. It won't come easily but then again most worthwhile things don't.

[buffalobill]

How exactly is my attitude that a move up is not a move up or at least a very slight move up for the oodles of extra money spent indicative of anything to do with lesser schollies winning? Poor attempt at a jab there brother but so be it. Montana has a lot of games with less scholarships so I know the point well.

If there is an opening in any of those conferences then it would by all mean make sense to move if it gave a chance at a playoff. It's not the case now and won't be. Dealing in reality you have the afterscraps to possible go to.

Even if your team is very, very good like Boise you get nothing but the finger from the big schools. If that changes then hell I'll line up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the issue.

I consider Montana U one our main rivals, since I was born the Bison have never lost to the griz in football, and so if I can't take a shot backed up by facts then what fun is there in any rivalry. I do consider Montana U a peer institution. So hopefully you folks are up for the challenge.:)

[Yotes]

If we can't get into one of those three leagues(Big 10, Big 12, or MWC) we might as well continue to play in our present 2nd level league. It won't come easily but then again most worthwhile things don't.
That's how I feel about the thought of NDSU going to FBS, except I don't even know that the MWC would be a good enough incentive to move up. If you can't compete at the top, then moving up isn't worth it. The MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, AAC, and C-USA just wouldn't get you anywhere, and the big boys would never let you in. There is now the Power Five, and Power of Five conferences, and in the Power of Five conferences you'd have to be ranked higher than the other 70 Pof5 teams in order to lock up a spot in a premier bowl game, and getting a spot in the "playoffs" would be basically impossible.

Best case most years would be a spot in the Potato Bowl, but most years probably wouldn't even be bowl eligible. That just sounds terrible compared to FCS.

I want to see some success after Craig Bohl. Last NCC title was in 94, and you guys only won one Great West title. Unparalleled success the last few years, but nothing saying "FBS" the couple decades prior. Perhaps winning even at this level without Bohl is tough enough, and winning at the FBS level a pipe dream.

[buffalobill]

That's how I feel about the thought of NDSU going to FBS, except I don't even know that the MWC would be a good enough incentive to move up. If you can't compete at the top, then moving up isn't worth it. The MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, AAC, and C-USA just wouldn't get you anywhere, and the big boys would never let you in. There is now the Power Five, and Power of Five conferences, and in the Power of Five conferences you'd have to be ranked higher than the other 70 Pof5 teams in order to lock up a spot in a premier bowl game, and getting a spot in the "playoffs" would be basically impossible.

Best case most years would be a spot in the Potato Bowl, but most years probably wouldn't even be bowl eligible. That just sounds terrible compared to FCS.

I want to see some success after Craig Bohl. Last NCC title was in 94, and you guys only won one Great West title. Unparalleled success the last few years, but nothing saying "FBS" the couple decades prior. Perhaps winning even at this level without Bohl is tough enough, and winning at the FBS level a pipe dream.
The State of South Dakota is just as guilty as the State of North Dakota for hiding in the shadows 40 years ago and not stepping up. Having said that where were the Coyotes when NDSU and SDSU made their move a decade ago.

Basically we are in agreement on where to move to but saying things are impossible are reasons why you end up eating dust instead of making it. As for Craig Bohl, a great Bison FB Coach, but history has proven over the last 50 years that the Bison have had success from a number of coaches. Good luck to the Coyotes! You have hired two very solid coaches in Glenn and Smith.

[gobison.gsb]

Why does this get to be a "we have to be in the upper part of the FBS or we don't go" thing? If the powers that be (and no one really knows what is happening anyway) want to move up, cool. Let's go for it. NDSU was doing fine in D2. We could have stayed D2. We chose to move up. Why is it so horrible if we want to move up again? To play in a meaningless bowl game, cool. Then it is a bowl game that has meaning to us and not many else. Kinda like the fcs championship to the rest of the nation- really not intended as a slam, it's just people's perception on the national sports scale. The powers that be want us to stay FCS, cool. Let's win some more national titles.

I just don't get some of these arguments. I don't think an Arkansas State fan thinks less of their team and it's traditions for where it is, they go with whatever level the leaders chose for them. Same with the Southern Utah or the Pittsburg State fan. It is what it is and it's not up to us.

[IBleedYellow]

Why does this get to be a "we have to be in the upper part of the FBS or we don't go" thing? If the powers that be (and no one really knows what is happening anyway) want to move up, cool. Let's go for it. NDSU was doing fine in D2. We could have stayed D2. We chose to move up. Why is it so horrible if we want to move up again? To play in a meaningless bowl game, cool. Then it is a bowl game that has meaning to us and not many else. Kinda like the fcs championship to the rest of the nation- really not intended as a slam, it's just people's perception on the national sports scale. The powers that be want us to stay FCS, cool. Let's win some more national titles.

I just don't get some of these arguments. I don't think an Arkansas State fan thinks less of their team and it's traditions for where it is, they go with whatever level the leaders chose for them. Same with the Southern Utah or the Pittsburg State fan. It is what it is and it's not up to us.

Because, screw mediocrity.

[gobison.gsb]

Because, screw mediocrity.

Then we should have stayed D2. We were exceptionally grand there. Look at the titles.

[buffalobill]

Then we should have stayed D2. We were exceptionally grand there. Look at the titles.

I believe that the move to D-1 gave credibility to our academics, research, and athletics. One area in particular that has been enhanced is our pep band and the Gold Star Marching Band. That would have never happened mired in D-2.:)

[citdog]

Why does this get to be a "we have to be in the upper part of the FBS or we don't go" thing? If the powers that be (and no one really knows what is happening anyway) want to move up, cool. Let's go for it. NDSU was doing fine in D2. We could have stayed D2. We chose to move up. Why is it so horrible if we want to move up again? To play in a meaningless bowl game, cool. Then it is a bowl game that has meaning to us and not many else. Kinda like the fcs championship to the rest of the nation- really not intended as a slam, it's just people's perception on the national sports scale. The powers that be want us to stay FCS, cool. Let's win some more national titles.

I just don't get some of these arguments. I don't think an Arkansas State fan thinks less of their team and it's traditions for where it is, they go with whatever level the leaders chose for them. Same with the Southern Utah or the Pittsburg State fan. It is what it is and it's not up to us.


arkansas state has no tradition. you DO. it CONTINUES to AMAZE me that those who NEVER have played at the highest level will not take the word of those who have that it is better here.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I consider Montana U one our main rivals, since I was born the Bison have never lost to the griz in football, and so if I can't take a shot backed up by facts then what fun is there in any rivalry. I do consider Montana U a peer institution. So hopefully you folks are up for the challenge.:)

Good for you.

[IBleedYellow]

Then we should have stayed D2. We were exceptionally grand there. Look at the titles.

You have nothing to bring to this conversation.

[buffalobill]

Good for you.
Thanks and the good for you too! As Rocky Balboa would say Griz Ain't so Bad!

[buffalobill]

You have nothing to bring to this conversation.
Even though our official colors are yellow and green, IMO and one shared by most Bison, when the Bison don their uniforms it's Green and Gold. So I guess we wouldn't want you at the Bison Blood Bank then either. I don't agree with most of what gobison.gsb says, but that doesn't mean he/she has nothing to offer.

[buffalobill]

arkansas state has no tradition. you DO. it CONTINUES to AMAZE me that those who NEVER have played at the highest level will not take the word of those who have that it is better here.
I'll second that

[BisonFan02]

Okay...WTF is going on here?

[BisonBacker]

I agree until or if the FBS playoff is expanded or more quality FCS teams bolt. I do not want to stay FCS if the likes of UNI, Montana, Montana State, JMU, etc. leave for FBS. Right now FCS is the place for NDSU, get back to me in 3-5 years and that may change.

Spot on and exactly how I feel. The trigger finger is getting itchy with the likes of GSU and Appy leaving but it would have to get pulled if Montana, JMU ect were to make that move. I also agree I think it would have to be a "new conference" wide move as well with say UNI (which I think would have an uphill climb politically in Iowa to make the move) as well as Montana ect. One other little factoid that would stir the proverbial ***** pot would be the public outcry of the politicians und has in their back pocket in Bismarck. NDSU already gets the short end of the stick out there if we moved on without little brother in tow the pissing match in Bismarck would be on.

[darell1976]

Spot on and exactly how I feel. The trigger finger is getting itchy with the likes of GSU and Appy leaving but it would have to get pulled if Montana, JMU ect were to make that move. I also agree I think it would have to be a "new conference" wide move as well with say UNI (which I think would have an uphill climb politically in Iowa to make the move) as well as Montana ect. One other little factoid that would stir the proverbial ***** pot would be the public outcry of the politicians und has in their back pocket in Bismarck. NDSU already gets the short end of the stick out there if we moved on without little brother in tow the pissing match in Bismarck would be on.

Don't worry about us, Doug Fullerton has already been brainstorming about a "new conference" for the BSC teams.

http://www.makeitmissoula.com/2013/06/q-and-a-with-big-sky-commissioner-doug-fullerton/


As I’ve stated before, I believe the Big Sky is in a perfect position to compete at the second-highest level of Division I football, whatever that may be in the future.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

What I find a little amusing is in 40 minutes of basketball Mercer established a level of notoriety Georgia Southern will probably never obtain playing in years of SunBelt.

I take it back, they did get a little air time for beating the worst Florida team since the late 70s. Outside of their fan base, that game has largely been forgotten. You will see replays of Mercer beating Duke for years.

Except that there far more instances of high seeds in the NCAA tournament falling to mid-majors than there are of major SEC programs losing to FCS teams. How many outside the SoCon remember Davidson's deep tournament run that one year? What about Northern Iowa beating Kansas and Florida Gulf Coast beating Georgetown? These upsets and runs are quickly forgotten when the next big upset happens the next year. Heck, Mercer didn't even get the spotlight for this year to themselves because of Dayton beating Ohio State and Syracuse.

The notoriety for our win over Florida will probably have a longer shelf life, and it doesn't matter that they weren't a good team. It has to do with them being a big name and GSU running all over a top college defense and winning without completing a pass. We probably won't get a lot of credit for it, but hey, Mercer got manhandled by a team that was in a play-in game, so do you think people will chalk that win up to Mercer being formidable or things just going right for them and wrong for Duke?

[Bisonator]

Don't worry about us, Doug Fullerton has already been brainstorming about a "new conference" for the BSC teams.

http://www.makeitmissoula.com/2013/06/q-and-a-with-big-sky-commissioner-doug-fullerton/

Every time someone brings this up I just bust a gut laughing! xlolx

[darell1976]

Every time someone brings this up I just bust a gut laughing! xlolx

And why is that? You don't think if the FBS split apart that the upper conferences in the FCS like the Big Sky, MVFC, etc. could possibly move up as a conference?

[Bisonator]

I haven't heard a thing nationally about GSU or App State since they decided to go FBS. Except for the Florida win last year but that was more because they were still FCS! The same can be said for just about every other school that has moved "up". Aside from the limited success of Boise State, the horror stories and financial woes greatly out number everything else!

[Bisonator]

And why is that? You don't think if the FBS split apart that the upper conferences in the FCS like the Big Sky, MVFC, etc. could possibly move up as a conference?

No I don't.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If anything happens, it will be the divisions changing. So far the conferences have been static but the divisions change around them.

[Professor Chaos]

Let's stop making excuses about this and do what should have been done 40 years ago. In my opinion it will not be stadiums, they can be built, It will not be finances, the resources are there...
Where were the resources when the SHAC project needed funding? This has been a priority for the athletic department for several years and has just finally become funded to the point that shovels are going into the ground. It's easy to spout off about how hard work will get it done when its not you having to go out and find the dollars to make it work. My advice is put your money where your mouth is and tell Gene Taylor you're willing to lay down X amount of dollars every year if the football teams moves to the FBS. Have as many of your like mended brethren do the same. For all the wind the pro-FBS crowd at NDSU generates there's very little "cents" in it, literally and figuratively.

[BisonBacker]

No I don't.

I don't either. Just the same as the have's and have not comparisons for FBS vs FCS the same can be said of all the FCS conferences. When you break them down there are certain schools that have more resources than others. Not every member of the MVFC or BSC has the money or even more importantly the support of the fans to make the move. Another issue is most of the teams in both conferences from a TV media marketing perspective (including Fargo) don't bring to the table what existing conferences are looking for. I've not done the research but I know for the Dak schools NDSU is the only one that has the 200K + market and that's small by existing conference standards. Hell just say all of North Dakota included for population and you still don't have 800K and not all of those are NDSU fans. SDSU and USD have would have a mixed bag in the Sioux Falls market which would be the biggest market for them. Same problem statewide for them. UND and Elforko Grande has 70K locally which maybe generous. It's an interesting debate but it is what it is. If the State of North Dakota wasn't so F'd up in that they try to support 11 state funded schools of which all but 2 or 3 should be nixed you might have a better chance financially. But as it stands that isn't changing so funding a move would be difficult at best. Not saying it couldn't happen but it would be a steep hill to climb.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Where were the resources when the SHAC project needed funding? This has been a priority for the athletic department for several years and has just finally become funded to the point that shovels are going into the ground. It's easy to spout off about how hard work will get it done when its not you having to go out and find the dollars to make it work. My advice is put your money where your mouth is and tell Gene Taylor you're willing to lay down X amount of dollars every year if the football teams moves to the FBS. Have as many of your like mended brethren do the same. For all the wind the pro-FBS crowd at NDSU generates there's very little "cents" in it, literally and figuratively.

Prof Chaos ripping the tits off of it.

Well said as usual.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Spot on and exactly how I feel. The trigger finger is getting itchy with the likes of GSU and Appy leaving but it would have to get pulled if Montana, JMU ect were to make that move. I also agree I think it would have to be a "new conference" wide move as well with say UNI (which I think would have an uphill climb politically in Iowa to make the move) as well as Montana ect. One other little factoid that would stir the proverbial ***** pot would be the public outcry of the politicians und has in their back pocket in Bismarck. NDSU already gets the short end of the stick out there if we moved on without little brother in tow the pissing match in Bismarck would be on.

I wouldn't even use JMU as part of the litmus test. They are in a much different situation and their location also doesn't match up a whole lot. Now Montana and MSU...dead on there. I've got a feeling that IF things were to change and FBS became a better option (playoffs etc.) then there would be a lot of pow wowing amongst schools like NDSU, UM, MSU, as well as many others in the position to do so.

If you are a top 25 program in FCS you are already in a 2nd division status no matter what flag you are flying.

[clenz]

Except that there far more instances of high seeds in the NCAA tournament falling to mid-majors than there are of major SEC programs losing to FCS teams. How many outside the SoCon remember Davidson's deep tournament run that one year? What about Northern Iowa beating Kansas and Florida Gulf Coast beating Georgetown? These upsets and runs are quickly forgotten when the next big upset happens the next year. Heck, Mercer didn't even get the spotlight for this year to themselves because of Dayton beating Ohio State and Syracuse.

The notoriety for our win over Florida will probably have a longer shelf life, and it doesn't matter that they weren't a good team. It has to do with them being a big name and GSU running all over a top college defense and winning without completing a pass. We probably won't get a lot of credit for it, but hey, Mercer got manhandled by a team that was in a play-in game, so do you think people will chalk that win up to Mercer being formidable or things just going right for them and wrong for Duke?
This is all completely false...completely

To compare...just for a very very small sample size...UNI/Kansas GSU/Florida

UNI over Kansas happened in prime time Saturday viewing, nationally televised in front of tens of millions of viewers. That win still gets talked about every basketball season, still gets my UNI shirt recognized in damn near any state I go to. Still has highlights shown of if every single year...multiple times. That win got UNI on the cover of sports illustrated (to go along with the two other feature articles on that team during the season) and was on TV for over a week straight. Got UNI athletes/coaches on national radio shows for weeks, won UNI as ESPY, was directly responsible for millions of dollars in free advertising, caused a huge upswing in applicants to the school (and better quality applicants)....just to start to scratch the surface.

GSU's win got about 30ish seconds on SportsCenter, some decent coverage on social media, and a lot of relevance on AGS...Nationally that game was nothing other than a blip on the radar proving how far Florida has fallen. To put it in more perspective the wins of UNI over Iowa State and NDSU over Kansas State got two or three times the run that the GSU win did....Yet give it until next season and no one will remember those other than the fans of those schools and those who wish to make fun of those schools.

Let's put it this way...you were able to name all of those basketball upsets without looking (I'm assuming?). How many FCS over FBS games can you mention from 4 years ago (other than App State).

****, George Mason is still getting run for their NCAA run in 2006.

College football may have more fans and more national respect than college basketball BUT a school becoming Cinderella in the NCAAs will do more than any FCS/FBS upset you could imagine sans an FCS knocking off a top 5-15 ranked FBS team (See App St).

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This is all completely false...completely

To compare...just for a very very small sample size...UNI/Kansas GSU/Florida

UNI over Kansas happened in prime time Saturday viewing, nationally televised in front of tens of millions of viewers. That win still gets talked about every basketball season, still gets my UNI shirt recognized in damn near any state I go to. Still has highlights shown of if every single year...multiple times. That win got UNI on the cover of sports illustrated (to go along with the two other feature articles on that team during the season) and was on TV for over a week straight. Got UNI athletes/coaches on national radio shows for weeks, won UNI as ESPY, was directly responsible for millions of dollars in free advertising, caused a huge upswing in applicants to the school (and better quality applicants)....just to start to scratch the surface.

GSU's win got about 30ish seconds on SportsCenter, some decent coverage on social media, and a lot of relevance on AGS...Nationally that game was nothing other than a blip on the radar proving how far Florida has fallen. To put it in more perspective the wins of UNI over Iowa State and NDSU over Kansas State got two or three times the run that the GSU win did....Yet give it until next season and no one will remember those other than the fans of those schools and those who wish to make fun of those schools.

Let's put it this way...you were able to name all of those basketball upsets without looking (I'm assuming?). How many FCS over FBS games can you mention from 4 years ago (other than App State).

****, George Mason is still getting run for their NCAA run in 2006.

College football may have more fans and more national respect than college basketball BUT a school becoming Cinderella in the NCAAs will do more than any FCS/FBS upset you could imagine sans an FCS knocking off a top 5-15 ranked FBS team (See App St).

Gotta agree with clenzy on this one. I personally remember the FCS wins over FBS as well as I do the BBall wins but from my perspective I don't really give a damn about BBall and care greatly about FCS team wins.

The FCS wins over FBS at the start of the season seem to carry much more impact as well. GSU's win was very big to me but it would have had more impact last season if it were in Wk. 1, 2, or 3 I think. By the end of the season there is just so much else going on in college football you don't get the bang for your buck.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The guy at Starbucks asked to take a picture of me in my Bison gear the day after the Oklahoma win. I get stopped all the time around town talking about the KU and KSU football games.

Regular season football wins make an impression as do tournament wins. Remember when NDSU BB beat Wisconsin and Marquette? They aren't as prevalent in the minds of people as the FB and tournament upsets.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

This is all completely false...completely

To compare...just for a very very small sample size...UNI/Kansas GSU/Florida

UNI over Kansas happened in prime time Saturday viewing, nationally televised in front of tens of millions of viewers. That win still gets talked about every basketball season, still gets my UNI shirt recognized in damn near any state I go to. Still has highlights shown of if every single year...multiple times. That win got UNI on the cover of sports illustrated (to go along with the two other feature articles on that team during the season) and was on TV for over a week straight. Got UNI athletes/coaches on national radio shows for weeks, won UNI as ESPY, was directly responsible for millions of dollars in free advertising, caused a huge upswing in applicants to the school (and better quality applicants)....just to start to scratch the surface.

GSU's win got about 30ish seconds on SportsCenter, some decent coverage on social media, and a lot of relevance on AGS...Nationally that game was nothing other than a blip on the radar proving how far Florida has fallen. To put it in more perspective the wins of UNI over Iowa State and NDSU over Kansas State got two or three times the run that the GSU win did....Yet give it until next season and no one will remember those other than the fans of those schools and those who wish to make fun of those schools.

Let's put it this way...you were able to name all of those basketball upsets without looking (I'm assuming?). How many FCS over FBS games can you mention from 4 years ago (other than App State).

****, George Mason is still getting run for their NCAA run in 2006.

College football may have more fans and more national respect than college basketball BUT a school becoming Cinderella in the NCAAs will do more than any FCS/FBS upset you could imagine sans an FCS knocking off a top 5-15 ranked FBS team (See App St).

I was making a comparison between GSU/Florida to Mercer and Duke. Do you think Mercer makes the SI cover or ESPY? Probably not even without Dayton beating Ohio State and Syracuse. I'm saying there's a lot less of a shock factor with Mercer than with UNI because of all of the recent success of mid-majors and upsets in the tournament. Remember JMU beating Va Tech? They weren't able to get as much out of that as App did from beating Michigan. You can't tell me that when the frequency of these things increase that "upset inflation" doesn't occur.

Also, I can promise you that at least regionally people in SEC country will be talking about Georgia Southern beating Florida for a while even if the media isn't. Of course it will be more laughing at Florida (Florida is probably the most hated team among SEC fans) than respect for us but it's still notoriety.

[clenz]

I was making a comparison between GSU/Florida to Mercer and Duke. Do you think Mercer makes the SI cover or ESPY? Probably not even without Dayton beating Ohio State and Syracuse. I'm saying there's a lot less of a shock factor with Mercer than with UNI because of all of the recent success of mid-majors and upsets in the tournament. Remember JMU beating Va Tech? They weren't able to get as much out of that as App did from beating Michigan. You can't tell me that when the frequency of these things increase that "upset inflation" doesn't occur.

Also, I can promise you that at least regionally people in SEC country will be talking about Georgia Southern beating Florida for a while even if the media isn't. Of course it will be more laughing at Florida (Florida is probably the most hated team among SEC fans) than respect for us but it's still notoriety.
That last part is exactly what I said.

People won't remember it as a great win for GSU. They won't remember a single player from GSU. They won't remember anything other than Florida lost to an FCS school. At that point it's not about GSU, it's about Florida.

Mercer and Lehigh will always be remembered for beating Duke as much as Duke will for losing that game.

Like ursus will remember FCS games as much (or more) than basketball since you aren't a basketball fan and because the game involved your team. However, 99% of sports fans will remember march madness games more than FCS upsets, especially the last week of the last week of the regular season.

[bisonboone11]

That last part is exactly what I said.

People won't remember it as a great win for GSU. They won't remember a single player from GSU. They won't remember anything other than Florida lost to an FCS school. At that point it's not about GSU,it's about Florida.

Mercer and Lehigh will always be remembered for beating Duke as much as Duke will for losing that game.

Like ursus will remember FCS games as much (or more) than basketball since you aren't a basketball fan and because the game involved your team. However, 99% of sports fans will remember march madness games more than FCS upsets, especially the last week of the last week of the regular season.
It is definitely about Florida in this case. Obviously it got Georgia Southern some free publicity, but I don't think it's as much as GSU fans think. I have seen way more on the two Florida players blocking eachother than I have seen of Georgia Southern beating Florida.

[clenz]

It is definitely about Florida in this case. Obviously it got Georgia Southern some free publicity, but I don't think it's as much as GSU fans think. I have seen way more on the two Florida players blocking eachother than I have seen of Georgia Southern beating Florida.
That's exactly it.

I'd be interesting to see if the articles from ESPN/SI/FSN/etc... focused on "GEORGIA SOUTHERN BEATS FLORIDA" or "FLORIDA SUFFERS WORST LOSS IN PROGRAM HISTORY...FLORIDA LINEMAN BLOCKING EACHOTHER/etc...."

[citdog]

I was making a comparison between GSU/Florida to Mercer and Duke. Do you think Mercer makes the SI cover or ESPY? Probably not even without Dayton beating Ohio State and Syracuse. I'm saying there's a lot less of a shock factor with Mercer than with UNI because of all of the recent success of mid-majors and upsets in the tournament. Remember JMU beating Va Tech? They weren't able to get as much out of that as App did from beating Michigan. You can't tell me that when the frequency of these things increase that "upset inflation" doesn't occur.

Also, I can promise you that at least regionally people in SEC country will be talking about Georgia Southern beating Florida for a while even if the media isn't. Of course it will be more laughing at Florida (Florida is probably the most hated team among SEC fans) than respect for us but it's still notoriety.

gswho? isn't that Georgia State?

[Actual Evidence Presented]

This is all completely false...completely

To compare...just for a very very small sample size...UNI/Kansas GSU/Florida

With quotes
"Georgia Southern beats Florida" 54,400 hits on Google
"Northern Iowa beats Kansas" 9,290 hits on Google

Without quotes
Georgia Southern beats Florida -- 4,020,000 hits on Google
Northern Iowa beats Kansas -- 3,280,000 hits on Google

[RabidRabbit]

Personally, I don't see it happening. The only league that would make sense for the Bison is essentially a Great Plains, middle of the country league. Currently, only the Big 12the bill. Now, if Texas takes its ball, and leaves the Big 12, maybe taking a Tx school or two with it, then I could see NDSU, Montana, maybe even UNI & SDSU being like teams to ge plucked. Always felt that WVA was a reach.

Texas Tech, Baylor, OU, OSU, K-State, Kansas, Iowa St, hell, Minnesota would all be "like" schools, just larger editions, than the Dakota States or Montana or MT ST.

With the loss of Creighton, the MoValley Conference has lost a lot of power. Same for the MAC. In basketball, Summit is getting close to be a "teens" RPI rather than a 20+ RPI, Except for Wichita St., MoValley was not significantly better than the Summit.
Hope the Bison, along with the Jackrabbits and Coyotes (and former Sioux) get that they can participate at the higher plain, and remain in the top 1/3. More than many schools can say or show.

[marenlee]

Personally, I don't see it happening. The only league that would make sense for the Bison is essentially a Great Plains, middle of the country league. Currently, only the Big 12the bill. Now, if Texas takes its ball, and leaves the Big 12, maybe taking a Tx school or two with it, then I could see NDSU, Montana, maybe even UNI & SDSU being like teams to ge plucked. Always felt that WVA was a reach.

Texas Tech, Baylor, OU, OSU, K-State, Kansas, Iowa St, hell, Minnesota would all be "like" schools, just larger editions, than the Dakota States or Montana or MT ST.

With the loss of Creighton, the MoValley Conference has lost a lot of power. Same for the MAC. In basketball, Summit is getting close to be a "teens" RPI rather than a 20+ RPI, Except for Wichita St., MoValley was not significantly better than the Summit.
Hope the Bison, along with the Jackrabbits and Coyotes (and former Sioux) get that they can participate at the higher plain, and remain in the top 1/3. More than many schools can say or show.

I really think the Dakotas need to stick together (including the Whioux). A core of all four Dakota schools would be great for any conference. A year ago I would have loved for the Bison to be invited to the MVC. But with the Summit continuing to get stronger I think this will be a great home for many years to come. We may even see the Summit become an 'occasional' two bid league. With Oral Roberts back and new facilities being built, the future looks bright.

[UNIFanSince1983]

With quotes
"Georgia Southern beats Florida" 54,400 hits on Google
"Northern Iowa beats Kansas" 9,290 hits on Google

Without quotes
Georgia Southern beats Florida -- 4,020,000 hits on Google
Northern Iowa beats Kansas -- 3,280,000 hits on Google

You are comparing something that happened in 2013 to something that happened in 2010...

For comparison:

With Quotes:
"Mercer beats Duke" 534,000 hits on Google

Without Quotes:
Mercer beats Duke 40,800,000 hits on Google

Hits on Google is all about recency so your test proved nothing...

[clenz]

You are comparing something that happened in 2013 to something that happened in 2010...

For comparison:

With Quotes:
"Mercer beats Duke" 534,000 hits on Google

Without Quotes:
Mercer beats Duke 40,800,000 hits on Google

Hits on Google is all about recency so your test proved nothing...
Yeah...

Alabama beats Notre Dame (you know, the BCS title game from last year) got 788K hits on google.

Which one is more relevant?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I really think the Dakotas need to stick together (including the Whioux). A core of all four Dakota schools would be great for any conference. A year ago I would have loved for the Bison to be invited to the MVC. But with the Summit continuing to get stronger I think this will be a great home for many years to come. We may even see the Summit become an 'occasional' two bid league. With Oral Roberts back and new facilities being built, the future looks bright.

This.

I've never been into "conference envy". The MVC is nothing terribly special to me. Neither was the Big Sky. NDSU is in a great position. If the MVC wants to become more private, some of the broke publics might find themselves marginalized.

[clenz]

This.

I've never been into "conference envy". The MVC is nothing terribly special to me. Neither was the Big Sky. NDSU is in a great position. If the MVC wants to become more private, some of the broke publics might find themselves marginalized.
What do you mean "become private". It's about maintaining a balance of private/public that has always existed of institutions that are liked minded athletically.

The MVC knows the kind of weight Bradley historically, and can have again if/when they recover from their last coach. The conference understands the kind of pull Drake could have. The conference also understands that UNI, WSU, and SIU are nationally known programs that always have great respect from national pundits.

It's keeping that balance to keep everyone happy that is important.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

What do you mean "become private". It's about maintaining a balance of private/public that has always existed of institutions that are liked minded athletically.

The MVC knows the kind of weight Bradley historically, and can have again if/when they recover from their last coach. The conference understands the kind of pull Drake could have. The conference also understands that UNI, WSU, and SIU are nationally known programs that always have great respect from national pundits.

It's keeping that balance to keep everyone happy that is important.

There's no intrinsic value in having such a "balance" you find little nits within your own conference identity and polish them up as points of pride.

Your conference is currently WSU. UNI needed Drake in the conference so they didn't have to be bottom in attendance.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It is definitely about Florida in this case. Obviously it got Georgia Southern some free publicity, but I don't think it's as much as GSU fans think. I have seen way more on the two Florida players blocking eachother than I have seen of Georgia Southern beating Florida.

You're absolutely right! I said the exact same thing the night of the GSU-Florida game and was hated on by some clueless fans. By that point of the season it was about Florida losing, not GSU winning....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That's exactly it.

I'd be interesting to see if the articles from ESPN/SI/FSN/etc... focused on "GEORGIA SOUTHERN BEATS FLORIDA" or "FLORIDA SUFFERS WORST LOSS IN PROGRAM HISTORY...FLORIDA LINEMAN BLOCKING EACHOTHER/etc...."

Clenz, go back to the GSU-Florida thread. I posted headlines the night of the game and people still refused to except it was about Florida. Heck, GSU was rarely talked about on AGS by that point. They weren't even eligible for our poll.

I can't begin to explain how ignorant some folks were that night....

[UNIFanSince1983]

There's no intrinsic value in having such a "balance" you find little nits within your own conference identity and polish them up as points of pride.

Your conference is currently WSU. UNI needed Drake in the conference so they didn't have to be bottom in attendance.

Drake has been in the conference basically since the beginning of the conference in 1907 (less like 6 years in the 50s).

I guess I don't really get your argument. There needs to be that balance. Would you say the Big East this year was better than the Big East last year? The answer is no.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Drake has been in the conference basically since the beginning of the conference in 1907 (less like 6 years in the 50s).

I guess I don't really get your argument. There needs to be that balance. Would you say the Big East this year was better than the Big East last year? The answer is no.

Nobody was more confused with that move than me. I'm not sure what they were going for. The quality of teams has nothing to do with their status as an institution. The old Big East was one of the best conferences of all time, the new Big East sacrificed some very quality teams in the interest of making all of the institutions the same.

The ACC, Big 12, Big 10, and PAC 12 are all heavily weighted public. The balance thing doesn't make any difference.

[IBleedYellow]

If/When WSU leaves the MVC you guys will flounder. Very strong possibility. Make sure you invite another Loyola.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If/When WSU leaves the MVC you guys will flounder. Very strong possibility. Make sure you invite another Loyola.

There's room in the Big 12. They'd overlook the lack of football in order to get the Basketball/Baseball teams.

[IBleedYellow]

There's room in the Big 12. They'd overlook the lack of football in order to get the Basketball/Baseball teams.

Ding Ding Ding.

I actually was thinking about this the other day, B12 really wants some more basketball schools, good basketball schools.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Ding Ding Ding.

I actually was thinking about this the other day, B12 really wants some more basketball schools, good basketball schools.

smack dab in the footprint, great TV market. Almost can't miss.

[FargoBison]

NDSU has a better shot the Big 12 than Wichita has.

NDSU's shot is about .00001% chance btw.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Ding Ding Ding.

I actually was thinking about this the other day, B12 really wants some more basketball schools, good basketball schools.

Kansas and Kansas State would push REALLY REALLY hard against this. It would probably never happen as long as Kansas is still in the conference.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Kansas and Kansas State would push REALLY REALLY hard against this. It would probably never happen as long as Kansas is still in the conference.

KU would find itself at the top of a very crappy heap if the Big 12 doesn't make some seriously good expansion plans. Texas and Oklahoma are just looking for an excuse to jump. Losing the 4 teams they did was a serious kick in the nuts. WVU and TCU were so/so adds, there needs to be a bigger splash.

[FargoBison]

Kansas and Kansas State would push REALLY REALLY hard against this. It would probably never happen as long as Kansas is still in the conference.

Yep, plus there is no way the Big 12 adds a school that doesn't have football.

[clenz]

Yep, plus there is no way the Big 12 adds a school that doesn't have a football.
Both of those things.

KU and KSU will never allow WSU anywhere near the B12.

The B12 will never allow a school without football anywhere near it.

No matter how you try to spin it.

The fact is WSU isn't going anywhere. The B12 wants nothing to do with them. The A10 cares more about going east. The Big East wants privates and east coast schoosl (see A10). The MWC may want a non football to balance the football side out but would likely go Gonzaga.

WSU has no options.


It's cute watching NDSU fans think they know something about the MVC like that though.

[UNIFanSince1983]

KU would find itself at the top of a very crappy heap if the Big 12 doesn't make some seriously good expansion plans. Texas and Oklahoma are just looking for an excuse to jump. Losing the 4 teams they did was a serious kick in the nuts. WVU and TCU were so/so adds, there needs to be a bigger splash.

I understand, but Oklahoma and Texas aren't looking from a basketball perspective. If they leave it is because of football. I doubt they would want to add a bunch of basketball only schools. Football are the drivers at those two schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That last part is exactly what I said.

People won't remember it as a great win for GSU. They won't remember a single player from GSU. They won't remember anything other than Florida lost to an FCS school. At that point it's not about GSU, it's about Florida.

Mercer and Lehigh will always be remembered for beating Duke as much as Duke will for losing that game.

Like ursus will remember FCS games as much (or more) than basketball since you aren't a basketball fan and because the game involved your team. However, 99% of sports fans will remember march madness games more than FCS upsets, especially the last week of the last week of the regular season.


Worthy of mention here is that what really helps is beating a team that (for whatever reason) is almost universally loathed by one rabid fan base, and trend-dislike by the rest of the nation. Duke (MBB), Kansas (MBB), Michigan (FB), Alabama (FB), apply to this rule, but for whatever reason, Florida (FB) does not.

What I find really funny is Norfolk State beating Mizzou was, in some ways, a bigger win than Lehigh over Duke - IN THE SAME TOURNAMENT. But oddly, it was upstaged, because of the unfortunate fact that Mizzou isn't nearly as hated nationally as Duke. The Duke/Lehigh game was national on CBS, true, that helped a lot. But it's more, I think, that most of the nation either dislikes or outright hates Duke.

[clenz]

Worthy of mention here is that what really helps is beating a team that (for whatever reason) is almost universally loathed by one rabid fan base, and trend-dislike by the rest of the nation. Duke (MBB), Kansas (MBB), Michigan (FB), Alabama (FB), apply to this rule, but for whatever reason, Florida (FB) does not.

What I find really funny is Norfolk State beating Mizzou was, in some ways, a bigger win than Lehigh over Duke - IN THE SAME TOURNAMENT. But oddly, it was upstaged, because of the unfortunate fact that Mizzou isn't nearly as hated nationally as Duke. The Duke/Lehigh game was national on CBS, true, that helped a lot. But it's more, I think, that most of the nation either dislikes or outright hates Duke.
There's a good amount of truth to that.

However, take that Duke loss out of the tournament and the Mizzou loss/Norfolk win gets HUGE publicity.

We are seeing the same thing play out with the upsets this year.

Dayton is getting almost all of the run for upsets. Mercer beat Duke and that got all of the round of 64 pub, but Dayton taking out OSU and Cuse trumps that. How many people, other than the fans of those schools and a follow up article the day after, are really talking about NDSU/SFA anymore?

Almost none...but those wins will still do more for those two schools than the GSU win over Florida.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There's a good amount of truth to that.

However, take that Duke loss out of the tournament and the Mizzou loss/Norfolk win gets HUGE publicity.

We are seeing the same thing play out with the upsets this year.

Dayton is getting almost all of the run for upsets. Mercer beat Duke and that got all of the round of 64 pub, but Dayton taking out OSU and Cuse trumps that. How many people, other than the fans of those schools and a follow up article the day after, are really talking about NDSU/SFA anymore?

Almost none...but those wins will still do more for those two schools than the GSU win over Florida.

SFA got some nice pub but didn't get big pub because VCU is still, for all practical purposes, a mid-major, and a mid-major that isn't really universally disliked by anyone (except for a few CAA folks).

NDSU over Oklahoma was a nice win for the Bison, but again, OU BB isn't universally hated. There might be some Kansas or Oklahoma State fans that are thrilled that the Bison took them, but not really on the national level. Plus - and this might surprise people - I think their run of FCS national championships and FBS upsets hurts the basketball story. NDSU isn't seen as a "typical" FCS school, they're seen as a powerhouse at that level.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Both of those things.

KU and KSU will never allow WSU anywhere near the B12.

The B12 will never allow a school without football anywhere near it.

No matter how you try to spin it.

The fact is WSU isn't going anywhere. The B12 wants nothing to do with them. The A10 cares more about going east. The Big East wants privates and east coast schoosl (see A10). The MWC may want a non football to balance the football side out but would likely go Gonzaga.

WSU has no options.


It's cute watching NDSU fans think they know something about the MVC like that though.

It's more cute thinking that we care about the MVC. I came into this conversation explaining that. Even funnier is that UNI wouldn't get into the MVC today if they weren't already there.


Now that the Summit has stabilized, I'm absolutely fine with it. If there were any movement, I would prefer the Horizon to anything.

[Bisonoline]

We went from: "There is "not a lot" of talk about moving up, according to NDSU AD Gene Taylor."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24156447/no-fbs-fcs-north-dakota-state-is-fbs-top-25-caliber

To Gene Taylor actually discussing it. Just my opinion, but I think Gene Taylor's thinking about moving up is slowly changing.

GTs thinking hasnt changed. Hes always said they will survey the landscape and be ready to move if its in the best interest of NDSU.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

GTs thinking hasnt changed. Hes always said they will survey the landscape and be ready to move if its in the best interest of NDSU.

Yeah it doesn't appear any different than what he and many other have said in the past couple of years.

[IBleedYellow]

Yeah it doesn't appear any different than what he and many other have said in the past couple of years.

The wise ones will continue to say that.

[BisonFan02]

I'm going to put a few points below that really need to be stated again...for sake of argument:

1) Any conference change by NDSU will be driven by football....the MVC doesn't fit that need and neither does the Horizon...
2) .....that being said, NDSU Basketball has a much higher "ceiling" if the investment was made (yes...that's a BIG if). Really though...a healthy Summit appears to be the best option because....
3) ....The MVFC needs a healthy Summit League. If the MVC wants to isolate football from the rest of its membership, they should have a somewhat vested interest in the health of this league. How many FCS level programs do you think would go football only to the MVFC outside of Summit programs? If any current Summit members make moves for non-football sports, they potentially damage their football league....so a conference move (a selfish one at that) would need to be all sports to ensure their health.....
4)....and could someone name that conference? Not the MAC...or the Sunbelt....or the MWC...and definitely not a BCS league. FCS moves (Big Sky...OVC...Southland?) Game over?

Vicious circle isn't it?

[Bisonoline]

I'm going to put a few points below that really need to be stated again...for sake of argument:

1) Any conference change by NDSU will be driven by football....the MVC doesn't fit that need and neither does the Horizon...
2) .....that being said, NDSU Basketball has a much higher "ceiling" if the investment was made (yes...that's a BIG if). Really though...a healthy Summit appears to be the best option because....
3) ....The MVFC needs a healthy Summit League. If the MVC wants to isolate football from the rest of its membership, they should have a somewhat vested interest in the health of this league. How many FCS level programs do you think would go football only to the MVFC outside of Summit programs? If any current Summit members make moves for non-football sports, they potentially damage their football league....so a conference move (a selfish one at that) would need to be all sports to ensure their health.....
4)....and could someone name that conference? Not the MAC...or the Sunbelt....or the MWC...and definitely not a BCS league. FCS moves (Big Sky...OVC...Southland?) Game over?

Vicious circle isn't it?

Whats interesting is all of the "WE MUST MOVE UP NOW" think they can just move up without getting a conference invitation.

[BisonFan02]

Whats interesting is all of the "WE MUST MOVE UP NOW" think they can just move up without getting a conference invitation.

and not just an invitation, but it would probably need to be for all sports at NDSU...with a travel partner to make that work.

[IBleedYellow]

and not just an invitation, but it would probably need to be for all sports at NDSU...with a travel partner to make that work.


BUT WE WANT FBS! NO FBS NEEDS US!

/lakesfilter

[Bisonator]

and not just an invitation, but it would probably need to be for all sports at NDSU...with a travel partner to make that work.

Why?