New division for top 5 FBS conferences

[dewey]

Here is a link to a Yahoo story about the top 5 FBS conferences potentially making their own division.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-poised-to-create-separate-division-for-sec--big-ten--acc--pac-12--big-12-212725211.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

I think we have seen this coming for a while now. It will be interesting to see what happens to the conferences such as American Athletic, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, C-USA and how they potentially merge with the current FCS. I hope they decide to do a playoff system with the way the FCS does it.

Could you imagine a playoff field including?
Boise State
Montana
Wyoming
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Northern Illinois
NDSU
Colorado State
Air Force
Army
Navy

What happens to teams in the American like Louisville and other teams in the American that are pretty darn good FBS programs at the moment?

Interesting indeed.

Dewey

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Here is a link to a Yahoo story about the top 5 FBS conferences potentially making their own division.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-poised-to-create-separate-division-for-sec--big-ten--acc--pac-12--big-12-212725211.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

I think we have seen this coming for a while now. It will be interesting to see what happens to the conferences such as American Athletic, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, C-USA and how they potentially merge with the current FCS. I hope they decide to do a playoff system with the way the FCS does it.

Could you imagine a playoff field including?
Boise State
Montana
Wyoming
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Northern Illinois
NDSU
Colorado State
Air Force
Army
Navy

What happens to teams in the American like Louisville and other teams in the American that are pretty darn good FBS programs at the moment?

Interesting indeed.

Dewey

Those conferences are all going to get to 20 sooner or later. If they take the bowls with them, I'm all for being in the next down division.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Been reading about this for some time now. I honestly don't see this happening.....

BTW, Louisville is joining the ACC next year....

[dewey]

Been reading about this for some time now. I honestly don't see this happening.....

BTW, Louisville is joining the ACC next year....

I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen as we all know the golden rule. "He who has the gold makes the rules" and the top 5 FBS conferences have a little bit of gold.

Are they just in the American for football this season?

Dewey

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Are they just in the American for football this season?

Dewey

Yup, both Louisville and Rutgers are AAC members for this sports year.....

[clenz]

I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen as we all know the golden rule. "He who has the gold makes the rules" and the top 5 FBS conferences have a little bit of gold.

Are they just in the American for football this season?

Dewey
Yes...a couple of the old Big East teams didn't announce their moves to their new conference before the **** hit the fan.


I've been saying this for a while - because it's what UNI's athletic director has been saying - and what I have had the FBS move stance that I have had.

There is going to be a split and there is going to be a new level of football formed "Big 5" "FBS left overs/some FCS" "FCS leftovers". I was for the move to the FBS, in the right situation for UNI if it meant keeping football at the second level tier of CFB. The move that teams like ODU, ASU, GSU, etc.. made were made for various reasons - one of them was the fear of getting left behind in a split and a "freeze" happening again...I promise you that. There was a large number of people saying 'Well have fun with your ****ty move and see you in a couple years after a split happens" and that was true to an extent. The difference was if/when that split happened they were likely guaranteed a spot in the second tier...teams still in the FCS weren't/aren't. Worst case scenario in that case is you end up staying in the second level of football....best case scenario you somehow end up catching the wave just right and stay in the top tier after the split.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yes...a couple of the old Big East teams didn't announce their moves to their new conference before the **** hit the fan.


I've been saying this for a while - because it's what UNI's athletic director has been saying - and what I have had the FBS move stance that I have had.

There is going to be a split and there is going to be a new level of football formed "Big 5" "FBS left overs/some FCS" "FCS leftovers". I was for the move to the FBS, in the right situation for UNI if it meant keeping football at the second level tier of CFB. The move that teams like ODU, ASU, GSU, etc.. made were made for various reasons - one of them was the fear of getting left behind in a split and a "freeze" happening again...I promise you that. There was a large number of people saying 'Well have fun with your ****ty move and see you in a couple years after a split happens" and that was true to an extent. The difference was if/when that split happened they were likely guaranteed a spot in the second tier...teams still in the FCS weren't/aren't. Worst case scenario in that case is you end up staying in the second level of football....best case scenario you somehow end up catching the wave just right and stay in the top tier after the split.

I'm of the belief that the split will not happen. The "power 5" conferences have leverage but the extent is being grossly overestimated imo. Schools like Cincinnati, Houston, Temple, UConn, South Florida, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State etc. along with the academies have a little more pull than you think imo....

[centennial]

I don't expect this to go over easy without a big fight and lots of lawsuits. Look for FBS(non-BCS) teams to sue..

[IBleedYellow]

I really want to make sure that NDSU is at the 2nd level of competition. Whether that means FBS with playoffs or FCS with playoffs, I am happy.

Being with peer institutions that have the same desires is huge, and allows a university to push itself to greater and higher things.

[darell1976]

Those conferences are all going to get to 20 sooner or later. If they take the bowls with them, I'm all for being in the next down division.

Keep the Bowls for the Super 5, playoffs for everyone else.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't expect this to go over easy without a big fight and lots of lawsuits. Look for FBS(non-BCS) teams to sue..

The verdict for that suit would be "go piss up a rope". NCAA is a completely voluntary organization. The conferences are semi-autonomous

[centennial]

The verdict for that suit would be "go piss up a rope". NCAA is a completely voluntary organization. The conferences are semi-autonomous
I would love it if we could join bottom FBS and top FCS. I just don't expect that this will happen without a big fight. Does not fit with the narrative of most lower FBS schools.. they don't want to be associated with FCS.

[IBleedYellow]

I would love it if we could join bottom FBS and top FCS. I just don't expect that this will happen without a big fight. Does not fit with the narrative of most lower FBS schools.. they don't want to be associated with FCS.

The lower FBS schools believe that they are better and bigger than the top tier FCS schools because they are FBS. It's comical when you try and carry a conversation on with them, actually.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I would love it if we could join bottom FBS and top FCS. I just don't expect that this will happen without a big fight. Does not fit with the narrative of most lower FBS schools.. they don't want to be associated with FCS.

Teams like USF, UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, Boise State simply can't afford to be playing EWU, NDSU, Youngstown State etc. There's simply too much of a gap in facilities and recent history.

[clenz]

Teams like USF, UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, Boise State simply can't afford to be playing EWU, NDSU, Youngstown State etc. There's simply too much of a gap in facilities and recent history.
The Big 5 and that type of program will find a way to keep them in the top tier....bank that.

The rest of the FBS programs right now? Yeah, not really.

Also, you are greatly over estimating UCONN and USFs place...

They may view themselves as "top tier" but their records and attendance say otherwise.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The lower FBS schools believe that they are better and bigger than the top tier FCS schools because they are FBS. It's comical when you try and carry a conversation on with them, actually.

They believe that because of facilities, current schedule, and history....

Schools in the AAC and MWC would die a quick death in some quasi FCS/FBS division....

[JayJ79]

Would this be a football-only split or all-sports?

IMO, there is already three tiers of D-I football for all practical purposes, even though it isn't official (yet).

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The Big 5 and that type of program will find a way to keep them in the top tier....bank that.

The rest of the FBS programs right now? Yeah, not really.

Also, you are greatly over estimating UCONN and USFs place...

They may view themselves as "top tier" but their records and attendance say otherwise.

You can't compare the facilities of the MWC and AAC to any of the FCS leagues. Several of these programs rely on pro stadiums. Temple or USF can't survive if they're going from home games against Notre Dame and Miami to Youngstown State and James Madison.

[IBleedYellow]

They believe that because of facilities, current schedule, and history....

Schools in the AAC and MWC would die a quick death in some quasi FCS/FBS division....

Really? You believe that? Some of them have the same football budget MINUS coaches salaries. If by facilities you mean "football stadium" I will agree to an extent. Remember though: They have those large facilities due to the fact that they have higher expenses. If they would be able to trim down their expenses those large stadiums wouldn't be needed as much.

There are plenty of FBS schools that shouldn't be FBS.

Also, if you want to talk history, do you mean the peer institutions that they play or their records? A school with no tradition is as bad as a school that is broke, IMO.

[centennial]

Would this be a football-only split or all-sports?

IMO, there is already three tiers of D-I football for all practical purposes, even though it isn't official (yet).
If this happened for anything other than football look for even bigger push. I expect that the NFL might not be too happy with a semi-pro league. FCS schools are going to be the biggest losers- No big games for money, no more lower academic students.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Really? You believe that? Some of them have the same football budget MINUS coaches salaries. If by facilities you mean "football stadium" I will agree to an extent. Remember though: They have those large facilities due to the fact that they have higher expenses. If they would be able to trim down their expenses those large stadiums wouldn't be needed as much.

There are plenty of FBS schools that shouldn't be FBS.

So they should tear down their stadiums? Knock down half of it? East Carolina, who just spent millions renovating, along with Houston and Tulane, who are building a new stadiums, should call it a day? That's simply not plausible....

Schools like SDSU, Temple and USF would likely be forced to shut down their programs.

[IBleedYellow]

So they should tear down their stadiums? Knock down half of it? East Carolina, who just spent millions renovating, along with Houston and Tulane, who are building a new stadiums, should call it a day? That's simply not plausible....

Schools like SDSU, Temple and USF would likely be forced to shut down their programs.

I never said tear it down....

They'd be able to be top dogs in this new conference, just due to spending. How does that not sound bad?

Also, I now see why you're saying this, since you realize that Temple would be at the same level as NDSU....?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I never said tear it down....

They'd be able to be top dogs in this new conference, just due to spending. How does that not sound bad?

Also, I now see why you're saying this, since you realize that Temple would be at the same level as NDSU....?

Temple would shut down the program before being relegated to a lesser division. It would absolutely be the right choice too...

[Apphole]

Here is a link to a Yahoo story about the top 5 FBS conferences potentially making their own division.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-poised-to-create-separate-division-for-sec--big-ten--acc--pac-12--big-12-212725211.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

I think we have seen this coming for a while now. It will be interesting to see what happens to the conferences such as American Athletic, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, C-USA and how they potentially merge with the current FCS. I hope they decide to do a playoff system with the way the FCS does it.

Could you imagine a playoff field including?
Boise State
Montana
Wyoming
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Northern Illinois
NDSU
Colorado State
Air Force
Army
Navy

What happens to teams in the American like Louisville and other teams in the American that are pretty darn good FBS programs at the moment?

Interesting indeed.

Dewey

There's about as much chance of the GO5 conferences merging with the FCS as the BCS conferences rejoining the GO5.

NOT NO WAY, NOT NO HOW.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

There's about as much chance of the GO5 conferences merging with the FCS as the BCS conferences rejoining the GO5.

NOT NO WAY, NOT NO HOW.

When the money schools go up there won't be much difference

[Go...gate]

Gotta wonder about Army, Navy AND Air Force.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Gotta wonder about Army, Navy AND Air Force.

They'll be right where they are now. They're fine....

[Apphole]

When the money schools go up there won't be much difference

Massive perception difference. Still a large gap in $ as well.

[BisonFan02]

Suppose some of the "Basketball Schools" (many Big 12 and B1G schools for example) in those BCS conferences have a few nerves making a football based decision like this?

[superman7515]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10311275/majority-delegates-ncaa-convention-wants-power-conference-autonomy


SAN DIEGO -- An unofficial straw poll of hundreds of delegates at the NCAA Convention in San Diego shows they support Division I athletics moving toward a model that would grant more autonomy to the five conferences with the most resources -- the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC.

The vote showed that 58 percent of athletic decision-makers in attendance either supported or strongly supported a change in the way Division I athletics are governed. The vote was nonbinding and the proposed new governance model is still raw, but it represents the first tangible acknowledgement that change is needed.

"People agree this is the appropriate way to have Division I stay intact and grant these degrees of freedom to higher-resource conferences," Wake Forest president Nathan Hatch, who also serves as Division I president, told ESPN.com. "Six months ago I don't think we would have been there. The very process has been a constructive one and you can see from this we tried to make things open."

The purpose of the two-day Division I governance dialogue at the San Diego Convention Center was to introduce the rough model and solicit feedback from all corners of Division I athletics.

"It's a little bit like the formation of our [U.S.] Constitution," Hatch said. "Big states versus small states. There are different interests -- how to craft hopefully an elegant solution where no one gets everything they want, but it's acceptable as a fair resolution."

The catalyst for the change is the growing divide between the five conferences with more resources and their desire to be able to autonomously pass legislation -- such as cost of attendance, unofficially referred to as a stipend, and the length of academic eligibility for scholarships............

[UNHWildcat18]

LFN IMO you are right on point yeah some of the LOWEST of the low FBS teams in terms of $$ and facilities can probably do the mix Idaho, Eastern Michigan ect.. But the TOP tier of the Lower Conference would never want nor allow it. Boise State Fresno State Utah State Northern Illinois ECU Marshall San Diego State Uconn Cincy are going to have none of it. I don't care what the fans of the best FCS teams with the Best FCS stadiums think, ain't gonna happen.

[Seawolf97]

Why would the upper FBS Big 5 even want to got through all this and face lawsuits and bad press ? Right now they are in drivers seat with media coverage, money and fans. They can slowly ignore the smaller FBS conferences on their schedules, stop playing any FCS programs ( Big 10) and maybe play a service academy once in awhile out of respect. No bad feelings they just play amongst themselves and ignore everyone else without putting it in writing. No one will notice.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Why would the upper FBS Big 5 even want to got through all this and face lawsuits and bad press ? Right now they are in drivers seat with media coverage, money and fans. They can slowly ignore the smaller FBS conferences on their schedules, stop playing any FCS programs ( Big 10) and maybe play a service academy once in awhile out of respect. No bad feelings they just play amongst themselves and ignore everyone else without putting it in writing. No one will notice.

because they can cherry pick the FBS teams that might add value and leave the rest. Why should they care when they are making all the money for the division anyway?

[proasu89]

I really want to make sure that NDSU is at the 2nd level of competition. Whether that means FBS with playoffs or FCS with playoffs, I am happy.

Being with peer institutions that have the same desires is huge, and allows a university to push itself to greater and higher things.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Sader87]

Ironically, I think this power-grab by the power conferences may actually help leagues like the Patriot and Ivy moving forward. Once the pretense is off that they are not playing college football but essentially minor league NFL football, there could be a resurgence in people following actual college football.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen that way but it is a possibility.

[JayJ79]

I expect that the NFL might not be too happy with a semi-pro league.

why would the NFL be unhappy about it? As far as the NFL is concerned, I don't see how such a change would really affect them. College football already serves as the "minor leagues" for the NFL. That wouldn't really change under this new proposal. Sure, the players in the new division would be making a bit more money, but they'd still aspire to make the NFL.

[centennial]

why would the NFL be unhappy about it? As far as the NFL is concerned, I don't see how such a change would really affect them. College football already serves as the "minor leagues" for the NFL. That wouldn't really change under this new proposal. Sure, the players in the new division would be making a bit more money, but they'd still aspire to make the NFL.
A semi pro product brings more competition. This is a money grab, the money has to come from somewhere. Not saying they are going to lobby against but the big schools want more TV money and fans.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ironically, I think this power-grab by the power conferences may actually help leagues like the Patriot and Ivy moving forward. Once the pretense is off that they are not playing college football but essentially minor league NFL football, there could be a resurgence in people following actual college football.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen that way but it is a possibility.

Ivy and Patriot are least affected by all of this. They'd continue unchanged even if the NCAA were to implode and disband.

As to the Top5/BCS conferences, maybe part of the "solution" ought to be an agreement that they have to stop calling what they do, "college football." Why should their rosters be limited only to people enrolled as students at a particular university? It seems like an unnecessary pretense at this point.

[Darlinikki150]

Temple would shut down the program before being relegated to a lesser division. It would absolutely be the right choice too...

Here's what I don't get, if these teams are so elite why wouldn't they want a payday if the divisions split? I don't understand why a school would just down a football program instead of play for national championship? Would these lower tier schools lose fans and backing because the Big 5 split off, or enough to cause a shut down of the football program. I understand I'm a Bison fan and our focus is basketball and football and we have an immense fan following, but I'm having g hard time wrapping my head around what your saying/implying. Someone speak to me like a child and the explain it so I understand please :)

[Tealblood]

What happens if these big 5 decide that 85 school lies isn't enough and go back to the old days and put 100 plus kids on scholarship

oh and while we are at it let's pay them to boot

where red does that leave us

- - - Updated - - -

That should be 85 schollies

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Here's what I don't get, if these teams are so elite why wouldn't they want a payday if the divisions split? I don't understand why a school would just down a football program instead of play for national championship? Would these lower tier schools lose fans and backing because the Big 5 split off, or enough to cause a shut down of the football program. I understand I'm a Bison fan and our focus is basketball and football and we have an immense fan following, but I'm having g hard time wrapping my head around what your saying/implying. Someone speak to me like a child and the explain it so I understand please :)

Temple has never had much football tradition. There's been pockets of success here and there but for the most part we've been a loser when it comes to football. The one thing we've always had though, is the ability to schedule Penn State, Notre Dame, Maryland, Clemson, Syracuse, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, Miami (FL). Games against those schools is what has kept people interested in the program.

We simply can't continue to play at Lincoln Financial Field if we're cut off from "big time" college football. Truthfully, we might be getting kicked out regardless. However, it'll be easier to get funding for an on-campus stadium if we're still a "major" college football program.

A school like Temple does not need football. The BOT's nearly eliminated the program in 2005 before the MAC threw us a lifeline which allowed us to remain FBS.

The Cincy's, Boise's, Houston's and UCF's of the world would be po'd because they've recently spent millions to upgrade their facilities to remain competitive in big time college football. Plus, those schools have a track record of success at the highest level.....

[Seawolf97]

because they can cherry pick the FBS teams that might add value and leave the rest. Why should they care when they are making all the money for the division anyway?

I agree they can cherry pick. But if they play against each other in non conference play instead of against a lower FBS or FCS programs they can just do it with out major changes. Last year Baylor destroyed Buffalo from the MAC. So you replace a MAC program with a Wake Forest, Kentucky etc. Better ACC and SEC - Baylor still gets the win. I think the service academies especially Navy and Air Force will still get some good games they are the most competitive over the years. Army plays the MAC and other lower conferences or high FCS programs. They really don't need to legislate this with the NCAA, just upgrade their scheduling and ice everyone out.

[Bisonwinagn]

Why would the upper FBS Big 5 even want to got through all this and face lawsuits and bad press ? Right now they are in drivers seat with media coverage, money and fans. They can slowly ignore the smaller FBS conferences on their schedules, stop playing any FCS programs ( Big 10) and maybe play a service academy once in awhile out of respect. No bad feelings they just play amongst themselves and ignore everyone else without putting it in writing. No one will notice.

They need to break off so they can make their own rules like paying players, selling autographs, agents, etc. They currently can't get what they want due to the rest of the NCAA teams having equal vote. They are going to break off to a new association or demand they make all the decisions with the NCAA. It's a done deal. ESPN has been pushing for this for years and the players are now suing to get money.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Here's what I don't get, if these teams are so elite why wouldn't they want a payday if the divisions split? I don't understand why a school would just down a football program instead of play for national championship? Would these lower tier schools lose fans and backing because the Big 5 split off, or enough to cause a shut down of the football program. I understand I'm a Bison fan and our focus is basketball and football and we have an immense fan following, but I'm having g hard time wrapping my head around what your saying/implying. Someone speak to me like a child and the explain it so I understand please :)

It's one of those things that you sort have have to "be there" to figure out. In Philadelphia, Temple is so ingrained into the fabric of the city that it's an everyday part of life. People think high value education first when it comes to Temple - and basketball. Temple definitely does not "need" football to establish a name or to attract students.

The local population's need for football in Philadelphia is taken care of utterly and completely by the Philadelphia Eagles. The allegiance to the Eagles in Philly is almost messianic. Many of the local sports radio guys (and there are a ton of them) are Temple graduates and even they rarely mention Temple football. Temple, Penn and Villanova suffer greatly due to the long shadow of the Philadelphia Eagles; LaSalle dropped football entirely, as did Drexel some years ago.

With 38,000 students Temple either will play FBS football or none at all, IMHO. The PL schools and northern CAA schools do have a football history with Temple going back to the 60s and 70s but FCS would just seem like an odd fit today. So I agree, given Temple's uniqueness, that it's either big time BCS or nothing for Temple.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Big 5 are really trying to portray 58% of the NCAA administrators as some sort of overwhelming majority to let the Big 5 do what they want without any voting on matters? If this were a bill in the U.S. Senate it wouldn't even get cloture.

This was, and continues to be about one thing, and one thing only: stipends. The Big 5 want them. The rest of the membership doesn't. Emmert calls it "something that benefits student-athletes". Small schools see it as something that might bankrupt them.

The NCAA is doing what they always do: trying to change the rules so that the Big 5 doesn't need to play by the same pesky rules as anyone else, rather than have a true, honest debate about stipends or trying to come up with a solution.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It's one of those things that you sort have have to "be there" to figure out. In Philadelphia, Temple is so ingrained into the fabric of the city that it's an everyday part of life. People think high value education first when it comes to Temple - and basketball. Temple definitely does not "need" football to establish a name or to attract students.

The local population's need for football in Philadelphia is taken care of utterly and completely by the Philadelphia Eagles. The allegiance to the Eagles in Philly is almost messianic. Many of the local sports radio guys (and there are a ton of them) are Temple graduates and even they rarely mention Temple football. Temple, Penn and Villanova suffer greatly due to the long shadow of the Philadelphia Eagles; LaSalle dropped football entirely, as did Drexel some years ago.

With 38,000 students Temple either will play FBS football or none at all, IMHO. The PL schools and northern CAA schools do have a football history with Temple going back to the 60s and 70s but FCS would just seem like an odd fit today. So I agree, given Temple's uniqueness, that it's either big time BCS or nothing for Temple.

From the time you first visit Temple until you leave, it's about embracing the city of Philadelphia. There is no rah-rah "Lets Go Owls" video to get you excited about Temple athletics.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I really think all of this is just a giant bluff. With the BCS fighting off the anti-trust lawsuit and more and more non-power conferences getting a bigger cut of March Madness money they see their power slipping.

On the point of stipends, are the P5 really going to be willing to pay full cost-of-attendance stipends to all athletes? The ship on Title IX exemptions for revenue sports has sailed and the P5 ADs can do nothing to change it. It wouldn't be too difficult for them to come up with the money for stipends for all sports, but it would really cut into their bottom lines. They talk about doing what's best for the student athlete, but we all know that's crap.

[centennial]

I have a really hard time believing 65 out of 800 schools have support of over 50% school reps when it is not in their interest to let this happen. How much politics and ESPN back room deals are we talking about here?

[clenz]

I have a really hard time believing 65 out of 800 schools have support of over 50% school reps when it is not in their interest to let this happen. How much politics and ESPN back room deals are we talking about here?
It's not hard to believe that 65 of 800 have over 50%.

Much like ANY kind of power the majority of it always rests with a very very very small % of the population

[Dane96]

The verdict for that suit would be "go piss up a rope". NCAA is a completely voluntary organization. The conferences are semi-autonomous

You don't understand the mechanics of this; Trust me, there is a major lawsuit that could--and has been threatened--be pressed: ANTITRUST as it relates to the NCAA's tax exempt status, and the schools general tax breaks.

Utah's A.G. filed and that's what sort of prompted the "at-large" accommodation for the BCS. Case was summarily dropped by the A.G.

[DFW HOYA]

This was, and continues to be about one thing, and one thing only: stipends. The Big 5 want them. The rest of the membership doesn't. Emmert calls it "something that benefits student-athletes". Small schools see it as something that might bankrupt them.

The other say they don't want them, but they know they'll offer it if they have to. AAC and MWC will offer them as soon as the other five do. Big East will have little choice but to follow suit in basketball.

[UNHWildcat18]

Even if they do split the lowest of the top tier conferences will get left behind. Its gonna turn into how much money can we throw at football to recruit the best kids and actually pay them... So nothing really changes they should leave it as is. YOU are a STUDENT at a school and get a full ****ing scholarship to go there for free and get an education and play football on top. This whole thing is such BS, but its all about making money from getting to better bowls or championships and exposure on TV which will add revenue.

[Bisonoline]

Even if they do split the lowest of the top tier conferences will get left behind. Its gonna turn into how much money can we throw at football to recruit the best kids and actually pay them... So nothing really changes they should leave it as is. YOU are a STUDENT at a school and get a full ****ing scholarship to go there for free and get an education and play football on top. This whole thing is such BS, but its all about making money from getting to better bowls or championships and exposure on TV which will add revenue.

I dont know why the BIGS are putting forth this false front. They dont want to be governed but then they do? Or they just want to pick out the rules they want to follow? The truth be known---they just want all the money to keep feeding the beast.

[walliver]

Remember that the Big5, in their new "football playoff" scheme are essentially paying every Gang of 5 school $1,000,000 every year to keep quiet and play along. Every G5 AD knows that he needs the $1M/year, plus another $1-2M from "money games", to keep his athletic department running.

Most likely, the Big 5 will get great autonomy to do whatever they want. The G5 schools will have the option of playing by the big boy rules, but won't be forced to do so. The G5 will not file a flurry of lawsuits - almost any antitrust argument related to keeping the G5 schools from playing at the top level could also be argued by FCS schools (JSU, Liberty, et al) against the Big 5 and the Gang of 5 (who are active co-conspirators).

For football, at least to me, it doesn't matter. I will continue to purchase season tickets and support the Terrier Club and complain about the quality of ESPN3 programming, and the Evil or Purple.

What does worry me, however, is basketball. If the SEC plays football players, then they will play basketball players also. IS I-AA basketball on its way?

[Bisonator]

Remember that the Big5, in their new "football playoff" scheme are essentially paying every Gang of 5 school $1,000,000 every year to keep quiet and play along. Every G5 AD knows that he needs the $1M/year, plus another $1-2M from "money games", to keep his athletic department running.

Most likely, the Big 5 will get great autonomy to do whatever they want. The G5 schools will have the option of playing by the big boy rules, but won't be forced to do so. The G5 will not file a flurry of lawsuits - almost any antitrust argument related to keeping the G5 schools from playing at the top level could also be argued by FCS schools (JSU, Liberty, et al) against the Big 5 and the Gang of 5 (who are active co-conspirators).

For football, at least to me, it doesn't matter. I will continue to purchase season tickets and support the Terrier Club and complain about the quality of ESPN3 programming, and the Evil or Purple.

What does worry me, however, is basketball. If the SEC plays football players, then they will play basketball players also. IS I-AA basketball on its way?

That's a good question. Wonder if this has been talked about at all.

[FargoBison]

Smaller schools will invest in basketball, likely at the expense of football and other men's sports. I-AA hoops will never happen, it doesn't make any sense.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Smaller schools will invest in basketball, at the expense of football. I-AA hoops will never happen, it doesn't make any sense.

Exactly...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Smaller schools will invest in basketball, likely at the expense of football and other men's sports. I-AA hoops will never happen, it doesn't make any sense.

Ah, but sadly, it does, and if the Big 5 get their way on stipends, I-AA hoops will be a reality. There will be two types of programs, those that had the extra couple of grand for books and stuff per semester for their athletes, and those that don't.

Here's another wrinkle on the stipends directly related to this question: Will schools be allowed to offer them in one sport, but not another? Let's say the Big 5 make it mandatory for all sports. Will FCS football teams feel compelled to play along or... will a whole host of new John Silbers decide to shutter their programs?

[Bisonoline]

Smaller schools will invest in basketball, likely at the expense of football and other men's sports. I-AA hoops will never happen, it doesn't make any sense.

Smaller schools will still invest in football. All that is going to happen is the big dogs will be officially named as such. There wont be a mad rush to go to those schools that isnt already there. 2,000.00 isnt going to cause that much of a swing because players will still be evaluated on talent and players will still be on the move for playing time.

[FargoBison]

Ah, but sadly, it does, and if the Big 5 get their way on stipends, I-AA hoops will be a reality. There will be two types of programs, those that had the extra couple of grand for books and stuff per semester for their athletes, and those that don't.

Here's another wrinkle on the stipends directly related to this question: Will schools be allowed to offer them in one sport, but not another? Let's say the Big 5 make it mandatory for all sports. Will FCS football teams feel compelled to play along or... will a whole host of new John Silbers decide to shutter their programs?

LFN it doesn't cost a lot of money to give 13 kids on the men's basketball team a stipend. It is pretty much the equivalent of a guarantee game or two. If the big dance goes away, a lot of these smaller schools will just de-emphasize athletics. They'll slide back into DII, DIII or the NAIA were they can reduce expenses because spending what they do now will no longer make sense from a PR viewpoint.

Exposure is what drives DI athletics and the big dance is the engine that makes it all go. A I-AA tournament in hoops makes zero sense, it won't even generate the kind of exposure the NIT generates.

[Pant8her]

What does worry me, however, is basketball. If the SEC plays football players, then they will play basketball players also. IS I-AA basketball on its way?

I brought this up last year when the BIG 5 started talking about this. It will infiltrate every section of college athletics at that level. They might as well be semi pro or better yet farm teams for the pros. The NCAA will become a laughing stock and the dark ages for collegiate athletics will occur. The big money makers of football and basketball by these BIG 5 super conferences will cause the Gonzaga's and George Mason's in the big dance not be possible.
To me it will get ugly until there is a fan revolt against the cost of these programs.
Unfortunately there has to be strict rules and enforcement. The professional leagues must demand that these kids coming into the pros have a decent college education. I also believe that the profits must be cut down (or dare I say it revenue sharing across the board-NOT SOCIALISM or COMMUNISM), because it cost too much for a game day experience for the average person/graduate to attend the event.

The other serious question will be the Title IX provision enforced by the NCAA this too may go away if the BIG 5 get their way. No rules, ha we can do what ever we want and what are you going to do? Watch it of course ESPN...

Sorry for the rant, but fans wake up it is coming...

Peace

[BisonBacker]

I really want to make sure that NDSU is at the 2nd level of competition. Whether that means FBS with playoffs or FCS with playoffs, I am happy.

Being with peer institutions that have the same desires is huge, and allows a university to push itself to greater and higher things.

This X1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000
Gene Taylor has continuously said we will not be left behind again like what happened to NDSU when the split to 1A and 1AA years ago happened. NDSU should have went then and hopefully with his leadership we will make the correct move when the time is right.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN it doesn't cost a lot of money to give 13 kids on the men's basketball team a stipend. It is pretty much the equivalent of a guarantee game or two. If the big dance goes away, a lot of these smaller schools will just de-emphasize athletics. They'll slide back into DII, DIII or the NAIA were they can reduce expenses because spending what they do now will no longer make sense from a PR viewpoint.

1) Already D-I schools across the country are playing a host of "guarantee games" and playing in exotic tournaments just to stay above water. Just saying "add another guarantee game" won't solve the problem.

2). 13 x (conservatively) $4,000/student per annum is $52,000. Add to that x 2 thanks to Title IX: $104,000. Then add to that the same for lacrosse, soccer, football.... suddenly you're talking about millions of dollars. And that's just to retain the same numbers of athletes you already had.

Something else to think about: Think that number will stay at $4,000 per annum for long? Would it be outlandish to think that there will be inflation in the cost of textbooks, food and whatever else is included in the stipend? Is it easy to envision it leaping from $4,000 to $8,000 in a few years' time? To me it is.

[FargoBison]

1) Already D-I schools across the country are playing a host of "guarantee games" and playing in exotic tournaments just to stay above water. Just saying "add another guarantee game" won't solve the problem.

2). 13 x (conservatively) $4,000/student per annum is $52,000. Add to that x 2 thanks to Title IX: $104,000. Then add to that the same for lacrosse, soccer, football.... suddenly you're talking about millions of dollars. And that's just to retain the same numbers of athletes you already had.

Something else to think about: Think that number will stay at $4,000 per annum for long? Would it be outlandish to think that there will be inflation in the cost of textbooks, food and whatever else is included in the stipend? Is it easy to envision it leaping from $4,000 to $8,000 in a few years' time? To me it is.

I'm guessing a number of schools may just chose not to offer stipends in some non-revenue sports. Or perhaps they'll offer a limited amount for each non-revenue sport. I've seen nothing that says stipends will be required.

That said, you've just explained why I said football and other men's sports could end up on the chopping block or at least have their budgets reduced. I could easily see schools pushing to cut FCS scholarships. Cut 10-15 scholarships and suddenly you cut $200-400k from the budgets of most schools. There is some money to use for stipends.

[BisonHype!]

I'm guessing a number of schools may just chose not to offer stipends in some non-revenue sports. Or perhaps they'll offer a limited amount for each non-revenue sport. I've seen nothing that says stipends will be required.

That said, you've just explained why I said football and other men's sports could end up on the chopping block or at least have their budgets reduced. I could easily see schools pushing to cut FCS scholarships. Cut 10-15 scholarships and suddenly you cut $200-400k from the budgets of most schools. There is some money to use for stipends.


SHHH! You bite your tongue! j/k, but seriously.... I would say that would kill recruiting... yuck. I am hoping this split does not occur. I like the current format, except on the BCS Level. I wish it was more of a playoff format like the FCS. We definitely got it right. Makes for some good matchups sometimes.

[Tealblood]

i still don't think anybody is addressing the issue of if these teams decide they would rather award 110 scholarships and pay more and more money

[Tealblood]

I think this is going to strain some conferences when some teams would rather be in the 2nd group instead of the 3rd group

in the big south i can guarantee CCU and Liberty want to be in 2nd group wheras the rest would most likely want 3rd group

the Southern will be the same

I would expect every conference is going to face this issue

[Hammerhead]

How embarrassing would be be to finish 20th in the PAC-20, Big-20 or some other superconference.


Those conferences are all going to get to 20 sooner or later. If they take the bowls with them, I'm all for being in the next down division.

[clenz]

How embarrassing would be be to finish 20th in the PAC-20, Big-20 or some other superconference.
Less embarrassing than going undefeated in any lower level in the eyes of 99% of the Big 5 fan bases

[darell1976]

This X1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000
Gene Taylor has continuously said we will not be left behind again like what happened to NDSU when the split to 1A and 1AA years ago happened. NDSU should have went then and hopefully with his leadership we will make the correct move when the time is right.

He also said he doesn't want NDSU to play in a useless (or some term like that) bowl. So once the split happens if they announce there will be a new playoff (I can't see them keeping crappy bowl games since the new FBS Super 5 will have the Big Bowl games), NDSU won't be the only team bolting to the new FBS/FCS division.

[MplsBison]

Here is a link to a Yahoo story about the top 5 FBS conferences potentially making their own division.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-poised-to-create-separate-division-for-sec--big-ten--acc--pac-12--big-12-212725211.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

I think we have seen this coming for a while now. It will be interesting to see what happens to the conferences such as American Athletic, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, C-USA and how they potentially merge with the current FCS. I hope they decide to do a playoff system with the way the FCS does it.

Could you imagine a playoff field including?
Boise State
Montana
Wyoming
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Northern Illinois
NDSU
Colorado State
Air Force
Army
Navy

What happens to teams in the American like Louisville and other teams in the American that are pretty darn good FBS programs at the moment?

Interesting indeed.

Dewey

Wow. Read what you want to see, much?

Having a voting bloc does not mean FBS is splitting up.


The agreement was just signed. They haven't even played the first season yet! Twelve years my friend. FBS is set, as it exists now, for the next twelve years minimum. A few onesie, twosie FCS teams might be added a la App/GA Southern, but that's about it.

[MplsBison]

Remember that the Big5, in their new "football playoff" scheme are essentially paying every Gang of 5 school $1,000,000 every year to keep quiet and play along. Every G5 AD knows that he needs the $1M/year, plus another $1-2M from "money games", to keep his athletic department running.

Most likely, the Big 5 will get great autonomy to do whatever they want. The G5 schools will have the option of playing by the big boy rules, but won't be forced to do so. The G5 will not file a flurry of lawsuits - almost any antitrust argument related to keeping the G5 schools from playing at the top level could also be argued by FCS schools (JSU, Liberty, et al) against the Big 5 and the Gang of 5 (who are active co-conspirators).

For football, at least to me, it doesn't matter. I will continue to purchase season tickets and support the Terrier Club and complain about the quality of ESPN3 programming, and the Evil or Purple.

What does worry me, however, is basketball. If the SEC plays football players, then they will play basketball players also. IS I-AA basketball on its way?

No schools are going to give players paychecks after games. That's called a professional athlete. That's the antithesis of the NCAA and collegiate athletics. The B1G is on record that they will never do this. That pretty much sacks the harebrained concept in the crib.

The idea of updating the definition of a scholarship to more accurately reflect the real costs of living for a student-athlete, to the tune of $2k increased total amount, is in no way or form anything of the type.