The Best FCS/IAA Team I Have Ever Seen Is...

[GreatAppSt]

The 2013 NDSU Bison are the best (Team) I have witnessed in 30 years of watching IAA Football. Better than the undefeated GSU team??? Yes. Better than the 96 Marshall team?? Yes.

Be very proud of this group of special players Bison fans and enjoy it to it's utmost, this type of accomplishment comes around only rarely at best.

xbowxxbowx Congrats to thexbowxxbowx

Three Time NCAA Division One

Football Championship Subdivision Champions

xbowxxbowxNorth Dakota State Bison!xbowxxbowx

Yours truly
GAS

[chattanoogamocs]

I was just having this conversation with a friend...I said that this team would be competing for the conference title in any mid major fbs league...and with only 63 scholarships...they are monsters.

[SpeedkingATL]

I totally agree. Congrats on a monster season, one of the best ever. Nice 3peet too.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No doubt about it in my mind. In my book, they are now on the FCS Mount Rushmore.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The 2013 NDSU Bison are the best (Team) I have witnessed in 30 years of watching IAA Football. Better than the undefeated GSU team??? Yes. Better than the 96 Marshall team?? Yes.

Be very proud of this group of special players Bison fans and enjoy it to it's utmost, this type of accomplishment comes around only rarely at best.

xbowxxbowx Congrats to thexbowxxbowx

Three Time NCAA Division One

Football Championship Subdivision Champions

xbowxxbowxNorth Dakota State Bison!xbowxxbowx

Yours truly
GAS

Amazing run...one of the all-time greatest teams...

but I'm not sure you can say they are better than 1996 Marshall...the Montana team with Dave Dickenson from that year that they owned would win the national championship on many years.

[Bisonator]

I'm sure it can be debated but IMO this is the best team I've ever seen at this level.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Amazing run...one of the all-time greatest teams...

but I'm not sure you can say they are better than 1996 Marshall...the Montana team with Dave Dickenson from that year that they owned would win the national championship on many years.

They didn't own the DD team they lost to that team. The 1996 Marshall team would have given NDSU a run having Kresser/Moss etc. but they would not have beaten them in my eyes.

[CrunchGriz]

Not to nitpick, but the 1996 Marshall team beat the until-then undefeated Griz with Brian Ah Yat at QB. Montana won the championship (beating Marshall) the previous year behind Dickenson.

[Brad82]

NDSU is best FCS/1AA program I have seen.

[frozennorth]

towson would have given NDSU a hell of a shot the previous two years.

[Hammerhead]

Marshall also had an advantage playing the championship game in their own stadium.

96 Marshall team won its playoff games by an average of 34 points. NDSU wasn't far behind in that regard at 32.75 points per game.

[grayghost06]

A great team and a great 3 year run.

Personally, I exclude the '96 Marshall team in these type of discussions for several reasons. Primarily, because of the rule that informally bears their name- "Marshall Rule". Transitioning teams are now ineligible to compete for the FCS title. The thinking was that the mere fact that the team will soon be FBS will allow them to attract more skilled players than if they remained FCS. Marshall was additionally aided that year in that they had stockpiled some prop 48s and given them "no show employment" for the year they sat out. They also benefitted from many I-A transfers who didn't have to sit out ( because Marshall was "technically" still not I-A.) This allowed them to get players who could transfer, play immediately for a championship in their first year and then finish their career still playing I-A football.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

My bad on mixing up Dickenson's years, but that Montana team was quite good and I remember some Griz fans saying it was probably even better than the NC team from 95. That '96 Montana team whalloped Oregon State 35-14 and won their playoff games 48-3, 44-14, and 70-7. It would have won the NC on a lot of FCS seasons.

One more comment...I don't conside any of the Georgia Southern teams from the late 90s to be the best team ever but with how we did last year in Fargo I have no doubt those teams could compete with NDSU. The team we had last year offensively was nowhere close to what we had in 1998 and 1999.

[proasu89]

Been a fan at this level since 1985 and this years Bison team ranks #1

[Skyhawk71]

I will give them the best I have ever seen, they are a legit upper level mid-major team, they are awesome; I also think even with player losses they may make another run next season, because they will still be good..........do I think it will be good for FCS...........Nope, but what a great team congrats again Bizun

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My bad on mixing up Dickenson's years, but that Montana team was quite good and I remember some Griz fans saying it was probably even better than the NC team from 95. That '96 Montana team whalloped Oregon State 35-14 and won their playoff games 48-3, 44-14, and 70-7. It would have won the NC on a lot of FCS seasons.

One more comment...I don't conside any of the Georgia Southern teams from the late 90s to be the best team ever but with how we did last year in Fargo I have no doubt those teams could compete with NDSU. The team we had last year offensively was nowhere close to what we had in 1998 and 1999.

Yeah all true. I would not put the 96 team above the 1995 team once the playoffs rolled aound though. They were neck and neck but with Dicky I'd bet on that one every time. The 1995 team scores in playoffs were 48-0, 45-0, 70-14 before heading to Marshll for the epic title game.

[BisonHype!]

Great team. With what we are losing for next year it will be tough to win the MVFC, let alone win another title. Never know though, you make the playoffs and anything can happen. Goal is to reach the playoffs for right now.

[IBleedYellow]

Each a d every dynasty has had their great teams. It is unfair to say this team vs this team due to the different eras.

This strong of three straight has been amazingly fun to watch. It's great to be a fan and I hope we didn't annoy you guys too much. We are passionate for our team and it was amazing talking with all of you guys this year.

Here's to another great FCS season!

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

[TSU86]

towson would have given NDSU a hell of a shot the previous two years.
Agreed .... Last year's TU> This year's TU

[Pard4Life]

I'd have to go with 1998-2001 Lehigh as being the best FCS team ever.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Chattanooga. Every year.

[DoWe]

Without a doubt the the best FCS/D1-aa team I have ever seen. But my money says they won't get a 4peat.

[PaladinFan]

Hard to argue. Undefeated and was hardly challenged throughout the playoffs.

[BisonHype!]

Chattanooga. Every year.

Especially this year. That chatty thread is still my vote for Thread of the Year. Just hilarious to look back on the comments made by Chatty. :D

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[1984]

Congrats to Towson on a great season. A team on its own quest...... Unfortunitly you ran into a team with a date with a destiny to be a dynasty....the BISON.

[SIUSalukiFan]

towson would have given NDSU a hell of a shot the previous two years.

North Dakota State was very, very good the first two years in the three-peat. This year? Just flat-out great.

Congrats to the Bison!

[dungeonjoe]

Chattanooga. Every year.
Dang. You beat me to it. However, if we want to compare worst playing surfaces, the 2004 game in Chatty still takes the cake or turf, if you choose.

the Bison are an elite program. It was fun to watch.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Great team. With what we are losing for next year it will be tough to win the MVFC, let alone win another title. Never know though, you make the playoffs and anything can happen. Goal is to reach the playoffs for right now.

How senior heavy was this year's team? It was very impressive to watch, I thought Towson had the edge until that blocked kick, and then the momentum shifted and never switched back. When NDSU was on, they were on.

[PaladinFan]

How senior heavy was this year's team? It was very impressive to watch, I thought Towson had the edge until that blocked kick, and then the momentum shifted and never switched back. When NDSU was on, they were on.

Extremely senior heavy. I count 24 on their roster. I don't keep track, but it looks from their roster they have way more than the max scholarship number on roster. Not sure how many of the 24 are actual key contributors, but that's a large number.

[BisonHype!]

The toughest position to gauge is QB. If Carson Wentz can step up and play even close to the level of play that Brock Jensen has given us, we can be a good team again next year. We did rotate a lot of underclassmen into games, so we have some experience returning. Crockett will be back at RB as well.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[X-Factor]

For next year, the Bison are already pretty much set with experienced players at all positions but QB and DL. QB will likely be Carson Wentz, whom was honored at the game for 4.0 GPA. He has looked real good in the 4th quarters this year but still a new player at key position. The DL will have plenty of guys, but possibly not the same depth as this year. All other positions are locked in and will have huge depth once again. RB, LB, CB, FB, safety, WR, etc. 2014 Bison would be hard pressed to be as good as this year, but easily a title contender

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[theasushow]

For next year, the Bison are already pretty much set with experienced players at all positions but QB and DL. QB will likely be Carson Wentz, whom was honored at the game for 4.0 GPA. He has looked real good in the 4th quarters this year but still a new player at key position. The DL will have plenty of guys, but possibly not the same depth as this year. All other positions are locked in and will have huge depth once again. RB, LB, CB, FB, safety, WR, etc. 2014 Bison would be hard pressed to be as good as this year, but easily a title contender

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Let's not forget a new coaching staff...

[X-Factor]

Let's not forget a new coaching staff...

Yes, that will be a big story line to follow. Possibly the most significant overall.

[semobison]

I don't know if this was the best FCS team of all time. It is difficult to compare teams from past years and you will have many different opinions. What I do know is this years team went 15-0, won their third consecutive natty and that definitely puts them into this type of discussion! As a Bison fan I'm just enjoying the moment.

[Mfergy4]

North Dakota State was very, very good the first two years in the three-peat. This year? Just flat-out great.

Congrats to the Bison!


Thanks SalukiFan, but it takes great competition to mold a quality program and the Missouri Valley is the best conference in the FCS. You, UNI, Youngstown St, and SDSU helped in the making of this dynasty for without great competition no program can reach their full potential. IMO the MVC was slapped in the face by having only two teams in the play-offs and again IMO some of the Eastern conferences need to look at the poor quality of competition they offer. GO Bison and thanks MVC for being there to help us be better!!

[stevdock]

I haven't seen enough FCS football to know where NDSU stacks up against some of these great teams of the past. But what I do know is this group has been 43-2 the last 3 seasons, and those 2 losses were by a combined 6 points. I can't think of a recent team in any level of any sport that I've seen that was as dominant as this team was this year.

[PaladinFan]

I haven't seen enough FCS football to know where NDSU stacks up against some of these great teams of the past. But what I do know is this group has been 43-2 the last 3 seasons, and those 2 losses were by a combined 6 points. I can't think of a recent team in any level of any sport that I've seen that was as dominant as this team was this year.

Most of those on here that have watched FCS football (some since its inception) tend to put the 2014 Bison at the top. The 3 national titles perhaps is not as impressive as this single season. It wasn't but 5 years or so ago that App State won its third consecutive title (which at the time was unheard of).

The way they basically ran through their schedule and beat some good teams in the process is most impressive.

[NDSU1980]

Great team. With what we are losing for next year it will be tough to win the MVFC, let alone win another title. Never know though, you make the playoffs and anything can happen. Goal is to reach the playoffs for right now.

Making the playoffs next year still shouldn't be a problem and as 2010 proved, even though we were the last team in, we still did quite well until we got screwed at EWU. And for the record, we will be far from the last team in next year.

[chattanoogamocs]

Chattanooga. Every year.

well that's just a given.

[seantaylor]

Playoff field this year was as bad as it has ever been. Great team, but not the best.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Playoff field this year was as bad as it has ever been. Great team, but not the best.

At least you are keeping your undefeated streak of being wrong intact. We got a twofer with that one.

[PaladinFan]

At least you are keeping your undefeated streak of being wrong intact. We got a twofer with that one.

I'll say this. I am happy that GSU and App State got their butts beat this season in the SoCon. It allows all of us (and particularly the SoCon folks) from having to endure "yeah, NDSU was good this year, but if Georgia Southern had been playoff eligible...." or "The teams that won the SoCon title only did so because App wasn't allowed to win it...."

There's something satisfying about that.

[frozennorth]

the fcs set the record for fbs upsets this year, and a bunch of good ones. florida ksu osu sdsu

[Gil Dobie]

Marshall also had an advantage playing the championship game in their own stadium.

96 Marshall team won its playoff games by an average of 34 points. NDSU wasn't far behind in that regard at 32.75 points per game.

Marshall won 11 home games that year, Bison 9 this year.

It would be fun to see the Bison defense against the Marshall offense. How good was the Marshall defense, that would be my question.

[blueballs]

Marshall won 11 home games that year, Bison 9 this year.

It would be fun to see the Bison defense against the Marshall offense. How good was the Marshall defense, that would be my question.

Marshall was real good in 1996. Only GSU and App stayed within 2 TD's of them.

NDSU accomplished something else this year that is equally as rare as 15-0-0, and that is a +400 point differential. The only other two teams that I am aware of to accomplish that amazing feat was Marshall 1996 (+448) and GSU 1999 (+485).

[Grizzlies82]

Marshall won 11 home games that year, Bison 9 this year.
It would be fun to see the Bison defense against the Marshall offense. How good was the Marshall defense, that would be my question.

North Dakota State's defense is far better than the 1996 Marshall D (which was extremely good).
Though the 1996 Marshall offense was far better than this year's NDSU's offense.
It would be an epic match up. At this point I'd suspect 2013/14 ND St takes it in a close one.

[ngineer]

hard to compare teams from different eras, however, no question this group of Bison deserves to be on the "Rushmore" of IAA/FCS greats: GSU, YSU, ASU & NDSU. As others note, I put an * with Marshall due to their transitioning status at the time.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

My Mount Rushmore is as follows:

NDSU
App St
Geo Southern
Marshall

[Wallace]

EKU on the Mount

[AmsterBison]

Not going to touch this except to say that, as an NDSU fan, the FCS has had some amazing teams and it's nice to be mentioned in the same sentence as them, especially when we're so new to the party.

BTW, from the 1987 season on, no team currently in DI has more wins than Montana... but if Florida State wins, it'll be the 1988 season on.

[Sader87]

Marshall was real good in 1996. Only GSU and App stayed within 2 TD's of them.

NDSU accomplished something else this year that is equally as rare as 15-0-0, and that is a +400 point differential. The only other two teams that I am aware of to accomplish that amazing feat was Marshall 1996 (+448) and GSU 1999 (+485).

HC had +401 in an 11 game season.

With the caveat that that this team didn't participate in the playoffs, I think they still deserve to be in the conversation of one of the better teams in FCS history. NDSU '13 probably had a better overall defense (and thus team) but HC's '87 offense was better/more prolific.

Every game was over at the half that year as well. Every single one....which makes the offensive/point differential even that more amazing. Don't be swayed by that Army final either. It was 27-3 at the half and 34-10 in the 4th when HC pulled its starters.




1987: 11-0-0


Coach:
Mark Duffner










Patriot League Champions








W/L


Date


PF


Opponent


PA


Location


Notes




W


09-12-1987


34


Army (NY)


24


West Point, NY





W


09-19-1987


40


Lafayette (PA)


11


Worcester, MA





W


09-26-1987


63


Lehigh (PA)


6


Bethlehem, PA





W


10-03-1987


49


Colgate (NY)


7


Worcester, MA





W


10-10-1987


62


Dartmouth (NH)


23


Hanover, NH





W


10-17-1987


48


Bucknell (PA)


10


Lewisburg, PA





W


10-24-1987


41


Brown (RI)


0


Worcester, MA





W


10-31-1987


54


Massachusetts


10


Amherst, MA





W


11-07-1987


41


Harvard (MA)


6


Worcester, MA





W


11-14-1987


40


William & Mary (VA)


7


Worcester, MA





W


11-19-1987


39


Villanova (PA)


6


Villanova, PA












511


Season Totals


110

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I still give a slight edge to 1996 Marshall. BUT, as some have said, there are "technicallities" with the 'Herd....

1. 1996 Marshall
2. 2013 NDSU
3. 1999 Georgia Southern
4. 1987 Holy Cross
5. 1995 Montana

2006 was App State's best team and I don't think they match up with those five. The period from the late 80's to the early 2000's / when Tressel left YSU, was the "golden age" of FCS football imo. GSU, YSU, Marshall, Delaware, Furman, UNI, Montana and Holy Cross had some ridiculously talented teams.

[blueballs]

HC had +401 in an 11 game season.

With the caveat that that this team didn't participate in the playoffs, I think they still deserve to be in the conversation of one of the better teams in FCS history. NDSU '13 probably had a better overall defense (and thus team) but HC's '87 offense was better/more prolific.

Every game was over at the half that year as well. Every single one....which makes the offensive/point differential even that more amazing. Don't be swayed by that Army final either. It was 27-3 at the half and 34-10 in the 4th when HC pulled its starters.




1987: 11-0-0


Coach:
Mark Duffner










Patriot League Champions








W/L


Date


PF


Opponent


PA


Location


Notes




W


09-12-1987


34


Army (NY)


24


West Point, NY





W


09-19-1987


40


Lafayette (PA)


11


Worcester, MA





W


09-26-1987


63


Lehigh (PA)


6


Bethlehem, PA





W


10-03-1987


49


Colgate (NY)


7


Worcester, MA





W


10-10-1987


62


Dartmouth (NH)


23


Hanover, NH





W


10-17-1987


48


Bucknell (PA)


10


Lewisburg, PA





W


10-24-1987


41


Brown (RI)


0


Worcester, MA





W


10-31-1987


54


Massachusetts


10


Amherst, MA





W


11-07-1987


41


Harvard (MA)


6


Worcester, MA





W


11-14-1987


40


William & Mary (VA)


7


Worcester, MA





W


11-19-1987


39


Villanova (PA)


6


Villanova, PA












511


Season Totals


110




Very impressive indeed! Too bad they didn't get the chance to participate in the playoffs.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Not going to touch this except to say that, as an NDSU fan, the FCS has had some amazing teams and it's nice to be mentioned in the same sentence as them, especially when we're so new to the party.

BTW, from the 1987 season on, no team currently in DI has more wins than Montana... but if Florida State wins, it'll be the 1988 season on.

Wins dont mean **** if you cant close the deal, same goes for Florida State when they get clipped on Monday.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I still give a slight edge to 1996 Marshall. BUT, as some have said, there are "technicallities" with the 'Herd....

1. 1996 Marshall
2. 2013 NDSU
3. 1999 Georgia Southern
4. 1987 Holy Cross
5. 1995 Montana

2006 was App State's best team and I don't think they match up with those five. The period from the late 80's to the early 2000's / when Tressel left YSU, was the "golden age" of FCS football imo. GSU, YSU, Marshall, Delaware, Furman, UNI, Montana and Holy Cross had some ridiculously talented teams.

Its nuts you have Montana and HC in that group and leave out the App St teams.

2013 NDSU
1996 Marshall
2006 App St
1999 Georgia Southern
1995 Montana

Would be my 5 in order

[eaglessoar20021]

No one can argue with that. However, I've not seen a defense that would have stopped the 1999 Georgia Southern team.

My Mount Rushmore is as follows:

NDSU
App St
Geo Southern
Marshall

[PaladinFan]

Went back and looked at Randy Moss' numbers from 1996. Ye goodness.

[Hammerhead]

K-State and UNI were the only teams to lose by less than 15 points to the 2013 Bison.


Marshall was real good in 1996. Only GSU and App stayed within 2 TD's of them.

NDSU accomplished something else this year that is equally as rare as 15-0-0, and that is a +400 point differential. The only other two teams that I am aware of to accomplish that amazing feat was Marshall 1996 (+448) and GSU 1999 (+485).

[TILIS-BisonFan]

No one can argue with that. However, I've not seen a defense that would have stopped the 1999 Georgia Southern team.

I would love to see this year's ndsu defense versus that years gsu offense and vice versa. That's the great part about debating. No conclusions

[seantaylor]

1999 GSU. Best player in the subdivisions history. One of the top 3 coaches. An offensive juggernaut.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

1999 GSU. Best player in the subdivisions history. One of the top 3 coaches. An offensive juggernaut.

hard to say but he probably would have had a similar game against NDSU as almost all other elite running backs have in the last 3 years. Struggling to get 100 yds.

[Wallace]

hard to say but he probably would have had a similar game against NDSU as almost all other elite running backs have in the last 3 years. Struggling to get 100 yds.

that would be the first game he didn't get a hundred... even West got the century mark.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

that would be the first game he didn't get a hundred... even West got the century mark.

99 yds

[Wallace]

Rushing No Gain Loss Net TD Lg Avg
-------------------------------------------------
Terrance West 22 100
Gained 100

"he" never failed in gaining over 100, entire career...

[Go...gate]

HC had +401 in an 11 game season.

With the caveat that that this team didn't participate in the playoffs, I think they still deserve to be in the conversation of one of the better teams in FCS history. NDSU '13 probably had a better overall defense (and thus team) but HC's '87 offense was better/more prolific.

Every game was over at the half that year as well. Every single one....which makes the offensive/point differential even that more amazing. Don't be swayed by that Army final either. It was 27-3 at the half and 34-10 in the 4th when HC pulled its starters.




1987: 11-0-0



Coach:

Mark Duffner








Patriot League Champions









W/L



Date



PF



Opponent



PA



Location



Notes





W



09-12-1987



34



Army (NY)



24



West Point, NY






W



09-19-1987



40



Lafayette (PA)



11



Worcester, MA






W



09-26-1987



63



Lehigh (PA)



6



Bethlehem, PA






W



10-03-1987



49



Colgate (NY)



7



Worcester, MA






W



10-10-1987



62



Dartmouth (NH)



23



Hanover, NH






W



10-17-1987



48



Bucknell (PA)



10



Lewisburg, PA






W



10-24-1987



41



Brown (RI)



0



Worcester, MA






W



10-31-1987



54



Massachusetts



10



Amherst, MA






W



11-07-1987



41



Harvard (MA)



6



Worcester, MA






W



11-14-1987



40



William & Mary (VA)



7



Worcester, MA






W



11-19-1987



39



Villanova (PA)



6



Villanova, PA













511



Season Totals



110





I think NDSU, GSU, ASU all have had teams that arguably are "best ever". I also think 1987 HC has to be in the argument as well. That team was amazing.

P.S. That '87 Army club was not like the hopeless Army teams of the past sixteen or seventeen years (last really good Army club, IMO, was 1996 under Bob Sutton).

[Gil Dobie]

Gained 100

"he" never failed in gaining over 100, entire career...

Which site is reporting 100 yards, both ESPN and CNNSI are reporting 99 yards.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Gained 100

"he" never failed in gaining over 100, entire career...

I don't know what any of that means. Every box score that I have seen has West at 22 attempts for 99 yds.

[Wallace]

I think NDSU, GSU, ASU all have had teams that arguably are "best ever". I also think 1987 HC has to be in the argument as well. That team was amazing.

I hate to say it, sounds cliche, but strength of schedule is the problem.

[Wallace]

I don't know what any of that means. Every box score that I have seen has West at 22 attempts for 99 yds.

look at this one: http://www.gobison.com/custompages/fb/2013/NDSU15.HTM

[JSUBison]

Which site is reporting 100 yards, both ESPN and CNNSI are reporting 99 yards.

Even the NCAA website is reporting 99.

[Gil Dobie]

look at this one: http://www.gobison.com/custompages/fb/2013/NDSU15.HTM

Figured you has something up your sleeve ;)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

look at this one: http://www.gobison.com/custompages/fb/2013/NDSU15.HTM

Ah yes. Very clever. He rushed for 99 yds. Hard to believe he could be tackled for a loss, eh?

[Wallace]

net yards are always suspected to me... a QB rushes for a 20 yard gain but gets sacked for 21 on another play and has -1 rushing...

no big deal, West got what he got but "he" never had less than 100 in his entire career

[NoDak 4 Ever]

net yards are always suspected to me... a QB rushes for a 20 yard gain but gets sacked for 21 on another play and has -1 rushing...

he's not a QB. that's the stat

[Wallace]

he's not a QB. that's the stat

that's the net yards stat, gawd!

[Wallace]

hard to say but he probably would have had a similar game against NDSU as almost all other elite running backs have in the last 3 years. Struggling to get 100 yds.

you are the guy saying that AP would be hard pressed to get 100? MO noted.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

you are the guy saying that AP would be hard pressed to get 100? MO noted.

I'm just saying that everybody has been. Otherworldy nor not. I have no reason to believe that it would be any different.

[Wallace]

"Everybody"? How many backs have got 100 in the last three years against NDSU - really don't know? The best ever (in the best running scheme) would not get 100? Is your reasoning based on something else?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

"Everybody"? How many backs have got 100 in the last three years against NDSU - really don't know? The best ever (in the best running scheme) would not get 100? Is your reasoning based on something else?

9 times in 45 games, That's 20% of the time a player would get 100 yds. A lot of those yds were gained against backups in blowouts, that cannot be discounted.

I didn't say he woulnd't get 100, he just might struggle to do so.

This is the best ever defense. Period.

[Sader87]

I hate to say it, sounds cliche, but strength of schedule is the problem.

A valid point but you can only play who you're scheduled to play.

It wasn't exactly a schedule of "little sisters of the poor" either. Army was decent, they beat a few 1-A teams that year. Harvard won the Ivy League that year. Colgate was pretty strong that year and we beat UMass, W&M and Villanova as well. Unfortunately it was the first year we didn't play BC and that may have really solidified their stature with a win over the Eagles.

Again, it wasn't so much who they beat that year but rather in the fashion they won every game that year.

I think a lot of posters here don't realize or know how good the scholarship HC teams of the 1980s were and view them through a lens of the Patriot League of the 1990s onward.

[GreatAppSt]

the fcs set the record for fbs upsets this year, and a bunch of good ones. florida ksu osu sdsu
Yep, and they were all enjoyable.

[Go...gate]

A valid point but you can only play who you're scheduled to play.

It wasn't exactly a schedule of "little sisters of the poor" either. Army was decent, they beat a few 1-A teams that year. Harvard won the Ivy League that year. Colgate was pretty strong that year and we beat UMass, W&M and Villanova as well. Unfortunately it was the first year we didn't play BC and that may have really solidified their stature with a win over the Eagles.

Again, it wasn't so much who they beat that year but rather in the fashion they won every game that year.

I think a lot of posters here don't realize or know how good the scholarship HC teams of the 1980s were and view them through a lens of the Patriot League of the 1990s onward.

For example, Colgate lost only to Holy Cross, Duke, Syracuse (#2 in I-A) and, in a 7-6 shocker, Lehigh (which itself defeated Navy). The Red Raiders defeated, among others, W&M, Army and Boston University. In the final NY Times I-AA poll, HC was #1 and Colgate was #7. Colgate's Kenny Gamble won the Payton Award that year and Gamble and Greg Manusky were in the NFL the following fall.

[Go...gate]

A valid point but you can only play who you're scheduled to play.

It wasn't exactly a schedule of "little sisters of the poor" either. Army was decent, they beat a few 1-A teams that year. Harvard won the Ivy League that year. Colgate was pretty strong that year and we beat UMass, W&M and Villanova as well. Unfortunately it was the first year we didn't play BC and that may have really solidified their stature with a win over the Eagles.

Again, it wasn't so much who they beat that year but rather in the fashion they won every game that year.

I think a lot of posters here don't realize or know how good the scholarship HC teams of the 1980s were and view them through a lens of the Patriot League of the 1990s onward.

HC also had a I-AA player who finished in the top 5 for the I-A Heisman trophy.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

For example, Colgate lost only to Holy Cross, Duke, Syracuse (#2 in I-A) and, in a 7-6 shocker, Lehigh (which itself defeated Navy). The Red Raiders defeated, among others, W&M, Army and Boston University. In the final NY Times I-AA poll, HC was #1 and Colgate was #7. Colgate's Kenny Gamble won the Payton Award that year and Gamble and Greg Manusky were in the NFL the following fall.
Well said.

Holy Cross played a tough schedule and deserved the accolades they received. I'm not sure if there's been a team, maybe '96 Marshall, that got as much national attention as the 1987 Holy Cross team. That's factoring in NDSU hosting Game Day and App State playing a Halloween game on ESPN.

[Go...gate]

The Holy Cross at Villanova game in 1987 was a Thursday Night ESPN Game of the Week - this when ESPN did not have much to do with I-AA.

[Mr. C]

Marshall won 11 home games that year, Bison 9 this year.

It would be fun to see the Bison defense against the Marshall offense. How good was the Marshall defense, that would be my question.
Marshall's defense was very good in 1996, just like it was through most of the 1990s. DE B.J. Cohen and DT Billy Lyon were first-team All-Americans. They were studs on the Thundering Herd defensive front for years. Cohen had a lot of speed on the pass rush and Lyon was the guy that stacked up things in the middle. He could also get after it as a pass rusher. Larry McCloud was a second-teamer at MLB. McCloud was kind of a Grant Olson-type of player, really played hard and left his heart on the field. Overall, Marshall had five players on the TSN All-America team that year, with Randy Moss making it at both receiver and as a return specialist for six spots altogether. Cohen, and Lyon were All-Americans in 1995, too.

It has always been my opinion that Marshall had the most complete FCS team ever. Appalachian State (24-10) played the Herd within 14 points at Kidd Brewer Stadium and Georgia Southern (29-13) played them to within 16 points. An undefeated defending national champion Montana team lost by 20 in the title game (49-29), but it really didn't seem that close as the Griz trailed 23-0 early and were down 46-6 in the fourth period before putting up some late scores.

[Mr. C]

Marshall was real good in 1996. Only GSU and App stayed within 2 TD's of them.

NDSU accomplished something else this year that is equally as rare as 15-0-0, and that is a +400 point differential. The only other two teams that I am aware of to accomplish that amazing feat was Marshall 1996 (+448) and GSU 1999 (+485).
The point differential is one of the things that points to how dominant certain teams were. Georgia Southern of the 1998-2000 era is definitely in the argument of best ever in FCS, along with Marshall. Georgia Southern's 1999 offense against North Dakota State 2013 defense would be an interesting matchup.

[Mr. C]

9 times in 45 games, That's 20% of the time a player would get 100 yds. A lot of those yds were gained against backups in blowouts, that cannot be discounted.

I didn't say he woulnd't get 100, he just might struggle to do so.

This is the best ever defense. Period.
Delaware's defense in the playoffs in 2003 was pretty good. The Blue Hens allowed 23 points in four playoff wins and blanked an undefeated Colgate team in the championship game. Delaware gave up some points in the regular season, but by the time of the playoffs, the Hens were close to impenetrable.

[mvemjsunpx]

Marshall's defense was very good in 1996, just like it was through most of the 1990s. DE B.J. Cohen and DT Billy Lyon were first-team All-Americans. They were studs on the Thundering Herd defensive front for years. Cohen had a lot of speed on the pass rush and Lyon was the guy that stacked up things in the middle. He could also get after it as a pass rusher. Jason Crabo was a first-team OLB and Larry McCloud was a second-teamer at MLB. McCloud was kind of a Grant Olson-type of player, really played hard and left his heart on the field. Overall, Marshall had seven players on the TSN All-America team that year, with Randy Moss making it at both receiver and as a return specialist for eight spots altogether. Defensive back Blaine McElmurry was a third-team All-American in 1995. Cohen, Lyon and Crabo were All-Americans in 1995, too.

It has always been my opinion that Marshall had the most complete FCS team ever. Appalachian State (24-10) played the Herd within 14 points at Kidd Brewer Stadium and Georgia Southern (29-13) played them to within 16 points. An undefeated defending national champion Montana team lost by 20 in the title game (49-29), but it really didn't seem that close as the Griz trailed 23-0 early and were down 46-6 in the fourth period before putting up some late scores.

Huh? Jason Crebo (not Crabo) and Blaine McElmurry played for Montana, not Marshall.


That being said, the 1996 Marshall team would most likely have beaten this year's NDSU squad. Randy Moss was capable of breaking any I-AA/FCS defense that ever played. The '96 Griz were on par with this year's Bison and they got smoked.

[Mr. C]

Huh? Jason Crebo (not Crabo) and Blaine McElmurry played for Montana, not Marshall.


That being said, the 1996 Marshall team would most likely have beaten this year's NDSU squad. Randy Moss was capable of breaking any I-AA/FCS defense that ever played. The '96 Griz were on par with this year's Bison and they got smoked.
Misread the information on The Sports Network site on a couple of those guys, but the point remains about Cohen, Lyon and McCloud and Marshall having an outstanding defense during that era.

[Mr. C]

... the 1996 Marshall team would most likely have beaten this year's NDSU squad. Randy Moss was capable of breaking any I-AA/FCS defense that ever played. The '96 Griz were on par with this year's Bison and they got smoked.
Moss single-handedly lifted Marshall to the 24-10 win over Appalachian State with two absolutely incredible touchdowns receptions. In the first half, he beat triple coverage by out-leaping his defenders to haul down a pass in the end zone by the ASU sideline. In the second half, Moss was the hot read on a full-out blitz. Erik Kresser got rid of the ball just as he was buried, but on a slant, Moss somehow evaded two defenders, cornerback L.J.Brooks and free safety Gordon Fenderson just as they were going to sandwich him at full-speed. Moss caught the ball and split the defenders as Brooks and Fenderson hit head on and then raced 70 yards for the score.

You couldn't single cover Moss and I don't think NDSU had/has anyone who really could have matched up with Moss. People also forget that Chad Pennington didn't play a down that year, a season after becoming the first freshman QB to take a team to the championship game (ASU's Armanti Edwards is the only other and is the only freshman QB to win a national title in FCS). Pennington redshirted to allow him to have three more years to play at the FBS level.

[Mr. C]

The Holy Cross at Villanova game in 1987 was a Thursday Night ESPN Game of the Week - this when ESPN did not have much to do with I-AA.
ESPN did show a package of Ivy League games on Saturdays during that era. They would start at 9 a.m. west coast time, just about the time I was getting up from covering Friday night high school games and putting a newspaper to bed the night before.

[mvemjsunpx]

Misread the information on The Sports Network site on a couple of those guys, but the point remains about Cohen, Lyon and McCloud and Marshall having an outstanding defense during that era.

Oh yeah, no question. They sacked Dave Dickenson 11 times in the '95 game.

[Gil Dobie]

FWIW Sagarin rankings

2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking

[Gil Dobie]

Moss single-handedly lifted Marshall to the 24-10 win over Appalachian State with two absolutely incredible touchdowns receptions. In the first half, he beat triple coverage by out-leaping his defenders to haul down a pass in the end zone by the ASU sideline. In the second half, Moss was the hot read on a full-out blitz. Erik Kresser got rid of the ball just as he was buried, but on a slant, Moss somehow evaded two defenders, cornerback L.J.Brooks and free safety Gordon Fenderson just as they were going to sandwich him at full-speed. Moss caught the ball and split the defenders as Brooks and Fenderson hit head on and then raced 70 yards for the score.

You couldn't single cover Moss and I don't think NDSU had/has anyone who really could have matched up with Moss. People also forget that Chad Pennington didn't play a down that year, a season after becoming the first freshman QB to take a team to the championship game (ASU's Armanti Edwards is the only other and is the only freshman QB to win a national title in FCS). Pennington redshirted to allow him to have three more years to play at the FBS level.

Like I've said several times, NDSU would more likely try and get to the QB and try and force turnovers, than be able to cover Moss.

[kbswish22]

FWIW Sagarin rankings

2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking


2012 NDSU #35 77.94

[grayghost06]

FWIW Sagarin rankings

2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking


I don't think our 2004 team should be in this discussion, but since some lesser Sagarin ratings have been thrown out there, I might as well give some props to our team:

#36 ranking @ 76.34

[Mr. C]

Like I've said several times, NDSU would more likely try and get to the QB and try and force turnovers, than be able to cover Moss.
Kresser was a future NFL QB (Cincinnati Bengals) with a very quick release and a very good o-line protecting him. He didn't get sacked, or even hit, all that much. Marshall also had some pretty outstanding receivers besides Moss, like All-SoCon wide out Tim Martin (call him Motormouth for short. He is the guy that talked a lot of smack and got his jaw broken by FS Clarence Sutton in the classic 1995 App State-Marshall game that the Mountaineers won 10-3 in Huntington, W.V.).

[Mr. C]

Oh yeah, no question. They sacked Dave Dickenson 11 times in the '95 game.
Dickenson was one of the toughest QBs I've ever seen. He wasn't all that big either. No wonder he lasted so long and was so successful in the CFL.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Delaware's defense in the playoffs in 2003 was pretty good. The Blue Hens allowed 23 points in four playoff wins and blanked an undefeated Colgate team in the championship game. Delaware gave up some points in the regular season, but by the time of the playoffs, the Hens were close to impenetrable.

18751……23 POINTS….AN' ONE 6….WAS WOFFY'S….GARBAGE TIMER…AS…KC's FLOCK….WAS PACKIN' FO'….'NOOGAH……….AH BELIEVE DEY HAD..DUH #1 (OR CLOSE TO IT)….TOUGHEST SKED DAT YEAR……BAH SOME MAG/RAGS…..AWQ!

NORFF-EASTERN….WAS ALWAYS UH THORN..TA DUH HENS!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Delaware_Fightin'_Blue_Hens_football_team