The Holy Cross Love thread

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why should they be in the AGS Top 25? Consider:

1) Their only losses were to ranked Harvard and N'Eastern, who just upset Delaware this weekend.

2) They beat last year's Ivy champ, Brown.

3) They're the only Patriot League team with a winning record.

4) Chris Matthews is a HC alum.

5) They would walk over San Diego. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Just kidding about that last one. But in a league where all three frontrunners seem to have serious issues, you have to at least take a look at the Crusaders having a real shot at the PL title.

[Pards Rule]

#4 was the clincher for me!!!! Chris Matthews rules!

[th0m]

Question is, is the top PL team worthy a top 25 spot? I mean, the reason Delaware will likely be dropped from the top 25 is their loss to N'eastern (granted, their loss to Albany didn't help either). And now you want to put HC in because they lost to the same team? And Brown isn't really a marquee win, is it, with their sole W against Georgetown.

I didn't mean to put some smack on this thread, just 'thinking' out loud I guess...

[UNHWildCats]

HC was on my list for consideration, however I only had 2 spots open in the top 25 and there were more deserving teams. If I ranked to 30 they probably would have been #28 or #29

[carney2]

Top 25? No flaming way.

As for winning the PL, why not. The winner will, after all, be declared "not as bad as the rest of them."

[Husky Alum]

Holy Cross lost to Northeastern AT HOME.

I'm sorry, if you lose to us in your building, in your HOME OPENER you're not getting ranked in my poll.

I wasn't overly impressed with them, to be honest.

I echo the other comments on their ability to win the PL - someone's got to win it, right?

They play Dartmouth next week in Hanover. Now Dartmouth stinks and that should be a W - that will make them 5-2.

They'll have to win the PL to get the bid. I can't see an 8 win Holy Cross team getting an autobid.

[hvsader]

Holy Cross is improving week to week, as any well coached team should be. Our Soph QB had a great game vs Brown and is going to be very tough. He didn't play vs N'Eastern and Harvard (injured). Both of those teams looked very good against HC.

[Torero Tradition]

:nonono2:

[QUOTE=5) They would walk over San Diego. xlolx xlolx xlolx
[/QUOTE]

[justballn21]

If Holy Cross can win out the rest of its schedule, I would say it should then be considered for top 25 and maybe even top 20. I would actually like Holy Cross to make the playoffs as an underdog (since whoever wins the PL this year is going to get a 15 or 16 seed anyways). Overall, its too early to say at this point, but I think winning out will help sort this mess out.

[th0m]

I agree, if HC wins out, then they'll definitely be ranked (or should be!) at 9-2.

[ngineer]

If Holy Cross can win out the rest of its schedule, I would say it should then be considered for top 25 and maybe even top 20. I would actually like Holy Cross to make the playoffs as an underdog (since whoever wins the PL this year is going to get a 15 or 16 seed anyways). Overall, its too early to say at this point, but I think winning out will help sort this mess out.

Right now, I see it very difficult for ANY team in the PL to win out. We may well have a multi-team team tie for first place with 4-2 records..Who woulda thought??....

[Pard4Life]

Right now, I see it very difficult for ANY team in the PL to win out. We may well have a multi-team team tie for first place with 4-2 records..Who woulda thought??....

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Good lord... that means Ken_Z and Bucknell steal some games from the power teams... um, a, who are the power teams again? :rolleyes:

[Pard4Life]

Top 25? No flaming way.

As for winning the PL, why not. The winner will, after all, be declared "not as bad as the rest of them."

Let's wait and see what they bring to Homecoming 10/21.

I was wearing my optimism cap the other day and was looking at the schedule... Lafayette has the chance to reel off six straight wins if they get their act together and take down Harvard. If we can do that... oh boy we are back in it!

[Pard4Life]

It's fun seeing the Crusader fans emerge from the shadows and cobwebs... cool! Now we have the entire PL active on here!

[Pards Rule]

P4L, remember 1994??? 0-6 to start all OOC and then 5-0, with a 54-20 thumping of a favored Lehigh...

[Pard4Life]

P4L, remember 1994??? 0-6 to start all OOC and then 5-0, with a 54-20 thumping of a favored Lehigh...

Wasn't around for that season... but I sure have read about it! We could do it again for sure... cards could fall that way... we have to beat stinkin' 'Gate though!

[carney2]

P4L, remember 1994??? 0-6 to start all OOC and then 5-0, with a 54-20 thumping of a favored Lehigh...

I thought this was Russo's finest hour - holding them together after going 0-fer-OOC and then winning the league. He had better records and maybe better teams, but if you're a coach you have to look back at something like this with more than a little pride. Have any of you guys who played for him ever heard him discuss this year?

As for 2006, let's just get out of Cambridge with no injuries and then, hopefully, we can see Tavani have one of his finest hours.

[ngineer]

I thought this was Russo's finest hour - holding them together after going 0-fer-OOC and then winning the league. He had better records and maybe better teams, but if you're a coach you have to look back at something like this with more than a little pride. Have any of you guys who played for him ever heard him discuss this year?

As for 2006, let's just get out of Cambridge with no injuries and then, hopefully, we can see Tavani have one of his finest hours.

"...We shall battle on the shore, we shall battle on the streets...and when the sun finally sets upon the British Empire, (harumph), people will say that, this, was their finest hour."
--Winston Churchill

Couldn't help it ,but your comments called that speech to mind. One of the greatest of all time in recorded history.

[Pards Rule]

Agreed Carney...He really motivated his crew that year...Why has no one (like our friends in Lewisburg, PA) ever tried to lure Billy out of retirement? I heard back in the 80's Columbia made him an offer but he turned it down (smart man!)...

[carney2]

Agreed Carney...He really motivated his crew that year...Why has no one (like our friends in Lewisburg, PA) ever tried to lure Billy out of retirement? I heard back in the 80's Columbia made him an offer but he turned it down (smart man!)...

I always wondered why he didn't catch on somewhere. (My understanding is that he was an unpaid volunteer at Wyoming Seminary.) I can't imagine that 19 or 20 years as a coach in the Patriot League set him up on easy street but, who knows, maybe he made good investments. Anyway, he'd probably have trouble getting a good reference from Eve and/or Artie.

I also seem to remember that he was approached by his alma mater, Brown, at some point during his Lafayette days but turned them down too. Brown, as you may remember, was very Columbia-esque during most of this period, so it was another "smart man" call at the time.

[Pards Rule]

Yes Carney I do recollect that also...I know Bucknell savored him but realized there was no way he was doing Patriot 4 Patroit with BU.

[carney2]

"...We shall battle on the shore, we shall battle on the streets...and when the sun finally sets upon the British Empire, (harumph), people will say that, this, was their finest hour."
--Winston Churchill

From a Lehigh man. Whoda thunk.

[Pards Rule]

And Sir Winston was right on the money with that observation. The sun DID set on the Empire in short order after WW2 and it IS considered the Brit's finest hour, as it should be.

[Cross24]

Top 25? No flaming way.

As for winning the PL, why not. The winner will, after all, be declared "not as bad as the rest of them."

We really do not have a bad loss thus far. Yet on the other hand, our only quality win at this point is Brown. Overall though, The Cross seems to have a quality team and the future looks very good under Gilmore!

[Pards Rule]

Hey - a suddenly competitive PL brings new posters indeed! God, I so remember that horrible Nov. 1991 game in Worcester where we got killed 48-10...I was like "why did I come up here?" But they were still working their schollies through the system. It was like the last year or next to last year.

[Pard4Life]

We really do no have a bad loss thus far. Yet on the other hand, our only quality win at this point is Brown. Overall though, The Cross seems to have a quality team and the future looks very good under Gilmore!

Another HC poster? Cool... welcome aboard!

I think there are more HC posters than G'town.

[Go...gate]

I always wondered why he didn't catch on somewhere. (My understanding is that he was an unpaid volunteer at Wyoming Seminary.) I can't imagine that 19 or 20 years as a coach in the Patriot League set him up on easy street but, who knows, maybe he made good investments. Anyway, he'd probably have trouble getting a good reference from Eve and/or Artie.

I also seem to remember that he was approached by his alma mater, Brown, at some point during his Lafayette days but turned them down too. Brown, as you may remember, was very Columbia-esque during most of this period, so it was another "smart man" call at the time.

AIR, he had feelers from Colgate in 1992 but turned them down. We hired Ed Sweeney and, though not all Sweeney's fault, the program nearly died.

[Pard4Life]

AIR, he had feelers from Colgate in 1992 but turned them down. We hired Ed Sweeney and, though not all Sweeney's fault, the program nearly died.

And if Colgate went, who knows.. maybe Lafayette football would not be here today and Lehigh would be in the A10.

[carney2]

AIR, he had feelers from Colgate in 1992 but turned them down.

Did not know that - and, now that I do, am sorry to hear it. Something deep down in my screwed up value system tells me that we should not be poaching each other.

[Pard4Life]

Hi-jack alert:

Just noticed Gill is slated in as the starting TE this week... Hunter and Lawson are in as CBs... Clecidor is off the depth chart

[carney2]

Looks like the "Holy Cross Love Thread" has been hijacked.

Back on target here, I am looking forward to the 10/21 HC @ LC game. I have not been getting good vibes about the Holy Cross program. They seem less willing/able to make the necessary commitments to be competitive than anyone in the league, save Georgetown. Yet, they are having a very good year - a much better year than I expected. Is it smoke and mirrors? Is it their last gasp? Is it for real? It will be a lot of fun to reach some up close and personal conclusions.

[Pards Rule]

Hi-jack alert:

Just noticed Gill is slated in as the starting TE this week... Hunter and Lawson are in as CBs... Clecidor is off the depth chart

Hey YES to Adam Gill...I had a nice chat with his parents at the Bethlehem Courtyard the morning after the Yale game...They are nice folk and he is very excited to be part of the Pards...Now VERY excited to start I'm sure. He is from South Park, PA (near PIT).

[carney2]

Hey YES to Adam Gill...I had a nice chat with his parents at the Bethlehem Courtyard the morning after the Yale game...They are nice folk and he is very excited to be part of the Pards...Now VERY excited to start I'm sure. He is from South Park, PA (near PIT).

Was the captain of a high school team that won the AA state championship. They beat Wilson Area (right next to Easton).

[Pard4Life]

Was the captain of a high school team that won the AA state championship. They beat Wilson Area (right next to Easton).

Yup, I remember reading about him. His stats and profile are pretty impressive. If he is performing well right now... look out! Could we have a Bergen in development? Or like Colgate's TE? Sure hope the coaches can draw stuff up for him. We've had some good TEs, but not some major go-to guys. Stubits was pretty good though.

[cosmo here]

Hi-jack alert:

Just noticed Gill is slated in as the starting TE this week... Hunter and Lawson are in as CBs... Clecidor is off the depth chart

was Clecidor ever in the depth chart?

[Pard4Life]

was Clecidor ever in the depth chart?

Believe so.. he was a preseason starter and he was slotted in the two-deep this year.. I think.

[cosmo here]

Believe so.. he was a preseason starter and he was slotted in the two-deep this year.. I think.

I thought it was Lawson/Hunter, then Williams/Cohen the last couple weeks, since Lawson came back from missing camp . . but there has to be some combination that works and maybe Clecidor's part of that.

[Franks Tanks]

I always wondered why he didn't catch on somewhere. (My understanding is that he was an unpaid volunteer at Wyoming Seminary.) I can't imagine that 19 or 20 years as a coach in the Patriot League set him up on easy street but, who knows, maybe he made good investments. Anyway, he'd probably have trouble getting a good reference from Eve and/or Artie.

I also seem to remember that he was approached by his alma mater, Brown, at some point during his Lafayette days but turned them down too. Brown, as you may remember, was very Columbia-esque during most of this period, so it was another "smart man" call at the time.


By the end I think Bill was beaten down by the politics of college football, Artie and Steve Atkinson literally broke his will. He didnt recruit with the same vigor and was short with the administration. I think he just wanted to coach some football and not deal with all the crap. I think that played a part in going to wyoming seminary and having the opp to coach young kids and focus on the game. Also I think he would have had to take a step back if he was going to get back to being a HC at a solid I-AA, like being an OC for a year or two possibly until something suitable opened up, and he probably felt that was something he didnt want to do. Also someone else spoke about the 94 team, and I personally have never heard him talk about that season in particular, but he often referenced many of the great players from that era.,

[DFW HOYA]

I have not been getting good vibes about the Holy Cross program. They seem less willing/able to make the necessary commitments to be competitive than anyone in the league, save Georgetown.

Holy Cross: Willing and able. $2.5 million a year is still very able.
Georgetown: Willing, but not able. Not yet, anyway.

[Pards Rule]

By the end I think Bill was beaten down by the politics of college football, Artie and Steve Atkinson literally broke his will. He didnt recruit with the same vigor and was short with the administration. I think he just wanted to coach some football and not deal with all the crap. I think that played a part in going to wyoming seminary and having the opp to coach young kids and focus on the game. Also I think he would have had to take a step back if he was going to get back to being a HC at a solid I-AA, like being an OC for a year or two possibly until something suitable opened up, and he probably felt that was something he didnt want to do. Also someone else spoke about the 94 team, and I personally have never heard him talk about that season in particular, but he often referenced many of the great players from that era.,

Yeah, I just feel so bad for how it ended for Bill. I fondly recall the 1981 season when we were so surprised at how the program turned 180 from the year before. And how things were going good until the 90s when Arthur Rothkopf took the helm with his henchwoman, Eve Atkinson. Why couldn't they leave well enough alone?? And then that last straw, the "re-evaluation of the football program" done in the midst of recruiting season. It was FRONT PAGE in the Philadelphia Inquirer!! Not in the sports section -the A-1 page!! Tavani tells a story of how he was on a recruiting visit to a HS near Harrisburg and the coach there quizzically greeted him with "what are you doing here, aren't they dropping your program?" and Frank says within minutes he was getting a cell call to return to Easton immediately.

[Pard4Life]

Yeah, I just feel so bad for how it ended for Bill. I fondly recall the 1981 season when we were so surprised at how the program turned 180 from the year before. And how things were going good until the 90s when Arthur Rothkopf took the helm with his henchwoman, Eve Atkinson. Why couldn't they leave well enough alone?? And then that last straw, the "re-evaluation of the football program" done in the midst of recruiting season. It was FRONT PAGE in the Philadelphia Inquirer!! Not in the sports section -the A-1 page!! Tavani tells a story of how he was on a recruiting visit to a HS near Harrisburg and the coach there quizzically greeted him with "what are you doing here, aren't they dropping your program?" and Frank says within minutes he was getting a cell call to return to Easton immediately.

:bang: Jeez that is awful.. thank goodness those a-clowns are gone for good.. although their haze of stench and murk still hangs over us to this day.. (the Title 9 firing)..

Like we pointed out, it seems like this year is the Russo recognition/reconciliation era.. very good idea, just so happens it occurs in Weiss: Year Two.

Did they even have anything for Russo when he left or did they just boot him out the door?

[Pards Rule]

No, it just ended...Actually, he shocked everyone (except maybe his closest friends) by announcing his resignation on the Thursday before the Lehigh game...I don't know how many years he had left on his contract (Carney?) but LC was too cheap to buy him out so they just wouldn't have given him an extension. So he ended it his way. He took a tremendous underdog Lafayette team (like 25 or 30 points) to Bethlehem and just lost, 14-12. LC was driving very late in the game for a winning FG when the QB, attempting to throw out of bounds, didn't let it go far enough out and some LU defender just leaned so far over and INTed it. And my last memory of Bill was standing all alone in the end zone facing the mountains, no one within 20 yards, with a light drizzle falling as the light faded.

[Pard4Life]

No, it just ended...Actually, he shocked everyone (except maybe his closest friends) by announcing his resignation on the Thursday before the Lehigh game...I don't know how many years he had left on his contract (Carney?) but LC was too cheap to buy him out so they just wouldn't have given him an extension. So he ended it his way. He took a tremendous underdog Lafayette team (like 25 or 30 points) to Bethlehem and just lost, 14-12. LC was driving very late in the game for a winning FG when the QB, attempting to throw out of bounds, didn't let it go far enough out and some LU defender just leaned so far over and INTed it. And my last memory of Bill was standing all alone in the end zone facing the mountains, no one within 20 yards, with a light drizzle falling as the light faded.

Man, what a sad way to go... no wonder there are cries of "Where have you gone Bill Russo?".. at least he is getting respect now... Russo actually beat the Ivies...

[carney2]

No, it just ended...Actually, he shocked everyone (except maybe his closest friends) by announcing his resignation on the Thursday before the Lehigh game...I don't know how many years he had left on his contract (Carney?) but LC was too cheap to buy him out so they just wouldn't have given him an extension. So he ended it his way. He took a tremendous underdog Lafayette team (like 25 or 30 points) to Bethlehem and just lost, 14-12. LC was driving very late in the game for a winning FG when the QB, attempting to throw out of bounds, didn't let it go far enough out and some LU defender just leaned so far over and INTed it. And my last memory of Bill was standing all alone in the end zone facing the mountains, no one within 20 yards, with a light drizzle falling as the light faded.

Let the hijacking continue! Sorry, but I don't have any recollections as to how many years Russo had left on his contract or any of the other details invloved. I was in shock.

I do remember the game in question (1999), however. It was one of the few that I did not attend in person. I had 25 or 30 "close friends" over to watch it on TV and empty my rerigerator. I was so concerned about this being a boring blowout that I had another TV set up in an adjoining room with 1988's 52-45 thriller running concurrently. Only one person bothered with the '88 game. Don't know why - unless it was because he could actually find a seat in that room. The air went out of the main TV room when Salvaterra, that Lehigh DB, intercepted that "throw away."

[Pards Rule]

That was the dewds name! ***** I was so disappointed cause the guys just played their hearts out for Bill...I was there - haven't missed a game since seeing my first one in 1980 (freshman year)...Getting tix today in the mail for this years game. ALMOST missed last years cause I procrastinated before trying to order tix - sold out! Egads! Went to the game to buy some, none offered. So I followed a guy around who had a sign and was looking for 4, then crosses that out and 3, etc. and I was hoping when it got to be one, someone would have two to sell or he would give me the sign so I could try LOL! But luck would have it for a diligent attendee, we were walking front forward toward the bus drop off area and behold - a ticket on the ground & no one around! But it was for the LU side..No worry as I exchanged it for a LC seat with an LU dude who wanted like a $10 premium for the exchange. I was like NFW and he was like OK, $5, and I walked away and said once youre in you can sit anywhere - and I pointed out he would have an easier time selling an LU ticket - DUH! He calls me back desperately and agrees to a even exchange.

[Pard4Life]

That was the dewds name! ***** I was so disappointed cause the guys just played their hearts out for Bill...I was there - haven't missed a game since seeing my first one in 1980 (freshman year)...Getting tix today in the mail for this years game. ALMOST missed last years cause I procrastinated before trying to order tix - sold out! Egads! Went to the game to buy some, none offered. So I followed a guy around who had a sign and was looking for 4, then crosses that out and 3, etc. and I was hoping when it got to be one, someone would have two to sell or he would give me the sign so I could try LOL! But luck would have it for a diligent attendee, we were walking front forward toward the bus drop off area and behold - a ticket on the ground & no one around! But it was for the LU side..No worry as I exchanged it for a LC seat with an LU dude who wanted like a $10 premium for the exchange. I was like NFW and he was like OK, $5, and I walked away and said once youre in you can sit anywhere - and I pointed out he would have an easier time selling an LU ticket - DUH! He calls me back desperately and agrees to a even exchange.

xlolx Great story PR! Sadly mine are boring. I get there at 11am or earlier and this year I got my tickets in mid-September.

[carney2]

That was the dewds name! ***** I was so disappointed cause the guys just played their hearts out for Bill

Oh yeah - and continuing to hijack this thread - the dewd, as you call him, who intercepted that throw away in the final minute of the '99 game was a freshman DB named Matt Salvaterra. He came back as a sophomore in 2000 to win THE Game's MVP award. But - and here's the best part if you are a Pard - I came home after the 2002 game ("The Drive!" Remember?) and slammed the tape of the game into my VCR. (My wife is a not-so-willing accomplice in this lunacy and taped the 14-7 victory for my "library." I never save the losses.) In the last seconds of the game the camera panned the Lehigh bench and finally focused on a lost and forlorn soul sitting all alone with his helmet in his hands and staring at the ground. You guessed it - Matt Salvaterra. We all know that THE Game you remember the most is the one from your senior year, so we got some measure of retribution. In your ear with Yuengling beer, Mr. Salvaterra!

[Pards Rule]

Who has copy of last years game? I need one!! Damn, Carney what a great story for a Pard! I trust your 2002 copy has scenes of the posts going down but as I recall the announcers and camera would so studiously avoid showing or mentioning that even if the cameras caught it in the background...They could be having a riot at midfield and the announcers would be going over game stats...

[LeopardFan04]

Who has copy of last years game? I need one!! Damn, Carney what a great story for a Pard! I trust your 2002 copy has scenes of the posts going down but as I recall the announcers and camera would so studiously avoid showing or mentioning that even if the cameras caught it in the background...They could be having a riot at midfield and the announcers would be going over game stats...


I can't help you out with a copy of the tape...but in regards to '02...I was at the game...my parents watched on tv...and said that LSN showed a bit of the celebration (still concentrating on the players and not the goalposts...), WFMZ only showed the upset Lehigh players and made no effort to show the LC side of things...but I guess that figures since they have to cover their respective schools...as for HC (since this is what the thread is about?) I think they'll be okay...certainly not much has been decided yet, but out of any of the 4 teams not named Lafayette, Colgate, or Lehigh they've set themselves up for a shot...

[carney2]

Who has copy of last years game? I need one!! Damn, Carney what a great story for a Pard! I trust your 2002 copy has scenes of the posts going down but as I recall the announcers and camera would so studiously avoid showing or mentioning that even if the cameras caught it in the background...They could be having a riot at midfield and the announcers would be going over game stats...

As hinted in a previous post, I have many volumes of THE Game in my library. This is how I get thru the long and dreary winter of no football. Included, of course, are all 21st century games (Lafayette wins only). If you want one or more, contact me via the email option under "Members" on the toolbar at the top of this page. I should warn you that I am no techno-whiz and it will take some little time for me to move the requested tapes to a friend who has the ability to make copies.

I believe that you are correct in your assumption that the telecasters go out of their way to avoid all of the mayhem associated with THE Game. They do however, as I recall, include the students rushing the field after the 2004 game.

[Pards Rule]

Carney check your PM

[Pard4Life]

This thread is now titled "Lafayette memory lane and tape order form thread" xlolx

[Pards Rule]

LOL I feel so guilty for hijacking an HC thread - NOT!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Rest assured that this thread will be captured for posterity by coach Gilmore and the Holy Cross coaching staff as bulletin board material for your clash next week.

xlolx

Or not.

[Pard4Life]

Rest assured that this thread will be captured for posterity by coach Gilmore and the Holy Cross coaching staff as bulletin board material for your clash next week.

xlolx

Or not.

They probably don't even know it exists...

[Pards Rule]

How many active HC posters - 2??

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9805/17/g8.wrap/link.bill.clinton.jpg

"Well, that would depend on your definition of the word 'active poster'."

[Pards Rule]

"I did not read that board!"