If the Griz win out they are seeded, thus a second round home game bank on it

[robsnotes4u]

Little discussion from egriz, discuss this scenario, how many seeds the BSC gets and who gets it

So the Griz beat the cats.
EWU beats the cats
NAU wins out
Griz win out.

EWU undefeated in BSC and one lose to FBS and one to high ranked team, SHSU. Head to head win over Griz. Automatic bid. Signature win over OSU

NAU one loss in BSC to MSU who was rated and an additional loss to a FBS team, Arizona. Win in head to head over the Griz. Signature win over Griz

Griz two loses in BSC, both teams above finish higher than them in BSC. Signature win over MSU who now has four losses.

Discuss.



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[wapiti]

Little discussion from egriz, discuss this scenario, how many seeds the BSC gets and who gets it

So the Griz beat the cats.
EWU beats the cats
NAU wins out
Griz win out.

EWU undefeated in BSC and one lose to FBS and one to high ranked team, SHSU. Head to head win over Griz. Automatic bid. Signature win over OSU

NAU one loss in BSC to MSU who was rated and an additional loss to a FBS team, Arizona. Win in head to head over the Griz. Signature win over Griz

Griz two loses in BSC, both teams above finish higher than them in BSC. Signature win over MSU who now has four losses.

Discuss.



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The Griz are going to lose to the Cats.

[Professor Chaos]

EWU is definitely a seed. My guess would be that Montana would be seeded as well but I wouldn't be so sure about NAU. I would predict a Montana seed and NAU playing in the first round which would lead to a royal ****storm on AGS by dbackjon.

[robsnotes4u]

The Griz are going to lose to the Cats.

Thanks and I agree, you some people think that if the Griz win out the are guaranteed a seed. So this scenario has them winning out.

I think there is only one seed coming out of the BSC.


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[Grizalltheway]

The Griz are going to lose to the Cats.

I've heard this song before.

[Fear the Bird]

Thanks and I agree, you some people think that if the Griz win out the are guaranteed a seed. So this scenario has them winning out.

I think there is only one seed coming out of the BSC.


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This scenario has them winning out but 2 in conference losses and you think they could get a seed?! No way

[Grizalltheway]

This scenario has them winning out but 2 in conference losses and you think they could get a seed?! No way

10-2 is 10-2.

[Fear the Bird]

10-2 is 10-2.

6-2 is 6-2. In this scenario, they are clearly behind EWU, I don't think anybody would argue that. Personaly, I would have them behind NAU (but for sake of argument let's assume that the Montana name gets them the nod as the 2nd ranked BSC team). Teams I would have ahead of Montana for seeds:

NDSU
EWU
EIU
Maine
Fordham
YSU team with losses to Michigan St and NDSU
SHSU team that wins out
Coastal Carolina
SE Louisiana team that wins out (obviously you can now eliminate either this or SHSU from discussion)


So that right there is 9 teams that nobody can argue (make it 8 with the SHSU-SELA elimination game)

Teams that I personally would give a shot at a seed over Montana:

NAU
Delaware team that wins out
Towson team that wins out
Bethune-Cookman (I know that's a long shot but respect what they are doing this year)

So, I think Montana has to win out and 4-5 different things have to go their way. Bottom line, after talking it out, yes it is more realistic than I thought before typing this post, but also very unlikely.

[kalm]

This scenario has them winning out but 2 in conference losses and you think they could get a seed?! No way

SHSU
EIU
EWU
Maine
SLC #1
Fordham
YSU?
NAU?
Montana?
Southern #1?
Southland #2?
CCU?
CAA#2?

Way.
Who do you have ahead of them?

I think the better scenario for the Griz is to win out and have MSU beat EWU. They would be a lock in that instance.

[Fear the Bird]

SHSU
EIU
EWU
Maine
SLC #1
Fordham
YSU?
NAU?
Montana?
Southern #1?
Southland #2?
CCU?
CAA#2?

Way.
Who do you have ahead of them?

I think the better scenario for the Griz is to win out and have MSU beat EWU. They would be a lock in that instance.

This, but even still doesn't NAU look good in that scenario? EWU won AT Montana, so I still have them ahead of Montana in this scenario

[Grizalltheway]

This, but even still doesn't NAU look good in that scenario? EWU won AT Montana, so I still have them ahead of Montana in this scenario

Right. I don't think anyone's arguing that EWU won't get a seed if they win out, but it's very possible the Big Sky gets two depending on how things shake out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My seeds are:

Seeds: North Dakota State, Eastern Washington, Eastern Illinois, Maine, Fordham, Youngstown State, Coastal Carolina, Southeastern Louisiana.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/765-playoffs-till-i-die-projecting-the-fcs-playoff-field-11-5-2013

How is Montana going to leapfrog two potentially undefeated teams with FBS wins (Fordham and NDSU), four potentially undefeated teams vs. FCS competition and one FBS loss (Maine, Youngstown State, Coastal assuming loss vs. South Carolina, EIU + EIU has FBS win), and conf. champs Eastern Washington?

Personally I think the last seed will either go to SHSU or Southeastern Louisiana. Southland champions will have earned a seed, not least because SHSU beat the Big Sky champs head-to-head.

I think there's a chance Montana gets a seed if they win out but they'd clearly need help, IMO, most likely with SHSU losing to SeLa and SeLa losing another game.

[kalm]

This, but even still doesn't NAU look good in that scenario? EWU won AT Montana, so I still have them ahead of Montana in this scenario

Yes. It would be tough not to seed all three and I have a feeling someone would get screwed in that scenario. Should be the Griz with the weakest schedule and h2h losses to both.

[Fear the Bird]

Yes. It would be tough not to seed all three and I have a feeling someone would get screwed in that scenario. Should be the Griz with the weakest schedule and h2h losses to both.

It wouldn't be tough at all - how could you possibly justify Montana as one of the top 8 deserving teams in the country? And now way any conference is getting 3 seeds

[kalm]

My seeds are:

Seeds: North Dakota State, Eastern Washington, Eastern Illinois, Maine, Fordham, Youngstown State, Coastal Carolina, Southeastern Louisiana.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/765-playoffs-till-i-die-projecting-the-fcs-playoff-field-11-5-2013

How is Montana going to leapfrog two potentially undefeated teams with FBS wins (Fordham and NDSU), four potentially undefeated teams vs. FCS competition and one FBS loss (Maine, Youngstown State, Coastal assuming loss vs. South Carolina, EIU + EIU has FBS win), and conf. champs Eastern Washington?

Personally I think the last seed will either go to SHSU or Southeastern Louisiana. Southland champions will have earned a seed, not least because SHSU beat the Big Sky champs head-to-head.

I think there's a chance Montana gets a seed if they win out but they'd clearly need help, IMO.

An 11-1 CCU should be seeded behind a 10-2 BSC team.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

An 11-1 CCU should be seeded behind a 10-2 BSC team.

Abosultely. I have EWU as the No. 2 seed and Coastal as the No. 7. Just not Montana.

Remember, too, Montana would have only 9 D-I wins. That win over 3-7 Oklahoma Panhandle State (D-II) will do them no favors.

[kalm]

It wouldn't be tough at all - how could you possibly justify Montana as one of the top 8 deserving teams in the country? And now way any conference is getting 3 seeds

It would come down to a closer comparison of resumes after it all plays out, but I could see a 10-2 Montana seeded ahead of CCU and any 3 loss team from the CAA, Southern, and CAA.

Their only two losses would potentially be to a pair of top 10 teams with wins against a ranked MSU, and decent USD, Sac, and Poly.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It would come down to a closer comparison of resumes after it all plays out, but I could see a 10-2 Montana seeded ahead of CCU and any 3 loss team from the CAA, Southern, and CAA.

Their only two losses would potentially be to a pair of top 10 teams with wins against a ranked MSU, and decent USD, Sac, and Poly.

Curiously, the Southland is omitted.

[Fear the Bird]

It would come down to a closer comparison of resumes after it all plays out, but I could see a 10-2 Montana seeded ahead of CCU and any 3 loss team from the CAA, Southern, and CAA.

Their only two losses would potentially be to a pair of top 10 teams with wins against a ranked MSU, and decent USD, Sac, and Poly.

So you are conceding that NAU would be ahead of Montana in the seed discussion and you truly believe the Big Sky can get 3 seeds?

And why do you keep saying 11-1 CCU like that 1 loss to South Carolina is a big deal? Their EKU drubbing looks better and better each week

[kalm]

Abosultely. I have EWU as the No. 2 seed and Coastal as the No. 7. Just not Montana.

Remember, too, Montana would have only 9 D-I wins. That win over 3-7 Oklahoma Panhandle State (D-II) will do them no favors.

Not trying to be a dick, but half of CCU's schedule does them no favors. Their best win would be against EKU or CSU both of which would be at best, close to UM's win over MSU and Montana will have faced two FCS top 10's. None of CCU's FCS opponents will have sniffed the top 10.

[kalm]

Curiously, the Southland is omitted.

Yes...include the SLC unless its SHSU with their win over Eastern.

[kalm]

So you are conceding that NAU would be ahead of Montana in the seed discussion and you truly believe the Big Sky can get 3 seeds?

And why do you keep saying 11-1 CCU like that 1 loss to South Carolina is a big deal? Their EKU drubbing looks better and better each week

i think EIU deserves their lofty ranking because of their OOC performance, NOT because they're racing through the OVC. It's still the OVC and no one outside of EIU has an impressive résumé.

[Fear the Bird]

i think EIU deserves their lofty ranking because of their OOC performance, NOT because they're racing through the OVC. It's still the OVC and no one outside of EIU has an impressive résumé.

Wait, why are we discussing the merits of EIU now?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's close. But I do think Montana (or NAU or Montana State, for that matter) would need help to be that 7th or 8th seed.

Coastal could lose to Chuck South this weekend and I'd wager a second BSC team would be seeded in my rankings.

[kalm]

Wait, why are we discussing the merits of EIU now?

It was in reference to the quality of the EKU win

[rokamortis]

An 11-1 CCU should be seeded behind a 10-2 BSC team.

Let's see how it shakes out at the end because there is plenty of football to be played - but I think if we go 11-1 that we'll be able to hold our own.

[dbackjon]

EWU is definitely a seed. My guess would be that Montana would be seeded as well but I wouldn't be so sure about NAU. I would predict a Montana seed and NAU playing in the first round which would lead to a royal ****storm on AGS by dbackjon.

You are right on that. If the above scenario plays out, it will mean that the NCAA values dollars over actual performance, and the playoffs are tainted, and the Championship is not worth a damn

However, in that scenario, there will likely be other teams with bigger gripes at not being seeded.

[PAllen]

It would come down to a closer comparison of resumes after it all plays out, but I could see a 10-2 Montana seeded ahead of CCU and any 3 loss team from the CAA, Southern, and CAA.

Their only two losses would potentially be to a pair of top 10 teams with wins against a ranked MSU, and decent USD, Sac, and Poly.

How does losing to two potential top ten teams make you a top eight team?

[IBleedYellow]

Does it matter how many seeds the BSC gets in when SHSU or SLU is going to just come sweep them all anyway?

[robsnotes4u]

Thanks everyone great opinions on both sides. Word scenario that probably will not happen. I should reread and see if it like political issues, divided by part lines.

We will see how this scenario works after this weekend.


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[Grizalltheway]

Does it matter how many seeds the BSC gets in when SHSU or SLU is going to just come sweep them all anyway?

Yeah, the Southland has a great record in Missoula. xcoolx

[kalm]

How does losing to two potential top ten teams make you a top eight team?

It might not, but I was comparing schedules between the Griz and CCU...who's glossy record is helped by not having to play two top ten FCS teams

[Silenoz]

Does it matter how many seeds the BSC gets in when SHSU or SLU is going to just come sweep them all anyway?

Hey leave us out of that generalization. One close road loss and all of a sudden we're the Southland's bitch? xnonox


Although we do kind of suck this year...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The Griz will lose one of the next three at least anyway If we lose two we ain't even probably in the field let alone talking about a seed.

[kalm]

The Griz will lose one of the next three at least anyway If we lose two we ain't even probably in the field let alone talking about a seed.

Thread killer...wanh, wanh, wanh...

[Grizalltheway]

The Griz will lose one of the next three at least anyway If we lose two we ain't even probably in the field let alone talking about a seed.

Now THAT's the power of positive thinking. xbowx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thread killer...wanh, wanh, wanh...

Yeah, my bad.

But if we do win all three there is no doubt we are a seed and specifically over CCU, NAU, all of the CAA except maybe their champ, and any MVFC team not named NDSU.:D

[MTfan4life]

I personally think there would have to be quite the **** storm for the Griz to get a seed. If they win out and MSU beats EWU and NAU wins out. Montana would be 4th in the conference with a worse win than EWU and losses to two of the three teams at the top of the conference. Towson and Maine should get seeds. NDSU will get the one. Fordham and Coastal should get seeds as well. EIU will get a seed. The Southland will get at least one seed, if not two. If YSU only loses to NDSU, they will likely get a seed even though they have three wins against intramural football squads. Also, Bethune Cookman, while playing in the MEAC, would be undefeated aside from a loss to Florida State. Of the teams in the discussion, Montana would be the only one with neither an FBS win nor an FBS loss. The only thing they would have going for them is a win streak to end the season. I don't know if that would be enough to vault them into a seed in a season where so many teams would have such high quality records. JMHO

[BisonFan02]

Yeah, my bad.

But if we do win all three there is no doubt we are a seed and specifically over CCU, NAU, all of the CAA except maybe their champ, and any MVFC team not named NDSU.:D

Shenanigans, Montana @ NDSU in the second round after you guys beat some AQ patsy. :D

[Herder]

I think the Griz deserve a Top 8 seed, even if they lose all 3 games. I'd call it a lifetime achievement award!

The shocker to me is Youngstown . . . what do they have to do to get some respect. Looks to me like they have a better record than the whole Lot of the BSC, and play in a conference with a much high Sagarin rating. And no . . . they have not lost to NDSU. That remains to be seen, but should not be held agains them until if or when it would happen.

Thier loss to MI State does not look any better or worse than EWU's loss to Toledo. When you add in EWU's loss to Sam, why is EWU ahead of a one loss YSU?

[robsnotes4u]

Shenanigans, Montana @ NDSU in the second round after you guys beat some AQ patsy. :D

That would be awesome.


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[BisonFan02]

I think the Griz deserve a Top 8 seed, even if they lose all 3 games. I'd call it a lifetime achievement award!

The shocker to me is Youngstown . . . what do they have to do to get some respect. Looks to me like they have a better record than the whole Lot of the BSC, and play in a conference with a much high Sagarin rating. And no . . . they have not lost to NDSU. That remains to be seen, but should not be held agains them until if or when it would happen.

Thier loss to MI State does not look any better or worse than EWU's loss to Toledo. When you add in EWU's loss to Sam, why is EWU ahead of a one loss YSU?

I think a lot of people have been waiting for Youngstown to blow up like they had last year. They also haven't played NDSU, SDSU, and UNI (yes, I know). Their one big win so far is SIU? (played Dayton, Duquesne and Morehead St. OOC (and the loss to Michigan St.)...in conference wins over SIU, Indiana St, Illinois St., WIU, and a squeaker by USD. The next 3 weeks will tell us a lot more.

[dbackjon]

I think a lot of people have been waiting for Youngstown to blow up like they had last year. They also haven't played NDSU, SDSU, and UNI (yes, I know). Their one big win so far is SIU? (played Dayton, Duquesne and Morehead St. OOC (and the loss to Michigan St.)...in conference wins over SIU, Indiana St, Illinois St., WIU, and a squeaker by USD. The next 3 weeks will tell us a lot more.

This.

There are likely forty schools at least that would have had the same OOC record as YSU. Three WEAK teams, and got blown out by a good FBS team.

At this point, NAU (and a number of other schools) have as good or better overall resume than YSU.

If YSU wins out, they are a seed. But, if they win two, but lose to NDSU, how can you say they have a better resume than (again, using NAU) a team that played all Full Schollie squads OOC and beat them? Both would have a FBS loss, and a conference loss to a top 5/10 team.

[kalm]

This.

There are likely forty schools at least that would have had the same OOC record as YSU. Three WEAK teams, and got blown out by a good FBS team.

At this point, NAU (and a number of other schools) have as good or better overall resume than YSU.

If YSU wins out, they are a seed. But, if they win two, but lose to NDSU, how can you say they have a better resume than (again, using NAU) a team that played all Full Schollie squads OOC and beat them? Both would have a FBS loss, and a conference loss to a top 5/10 team.

MSU winning out will cost you a BSC championship but gain you a better seed

[Herder]

This.

There are likely forty schools at least that would have had the same OOC record as YSU. Three WEAK teams, and got blown out by a good FBS team.

At this point, NAU (and a number of other schools) have as good or better overall resume than YSU.

If YSU wins out, they are a seed. But, if they win two, but lose to NDSU, how can you say they have a better resume than (again, using NAU) a team that played all Full Schollie squads OOC and beat them? Both would have a FBS loss, and a conference loss to a top 5/10 team.

At 10-2 (hypothetically), YSU deserves to be seeded ahead of any 3 loss team in the BSC, and at the same level as any 2 loss BSC team. Have you looked at the bottom half of the BSC? Lots of dead weight and easy wins. 1 easy win the MVFC this year.

[dbackjon]

At 10-2 (hypothetically), YSU deserves to be seeded ahead of any 3 loss team in the BSC, and at the same level as any 2 loss BSC team. Have you looked at the bottom half of the BSC? Lots of dead weight and easy wins. 1 easy win the MVFC this year.

Ahead of a three loss BSC - yes.
A two loss? Depends on the losses.

YSU choose an easy OOC schedule. Plus ISU-b and WIU are the same as the dregs of the BSC. As a whole, the two conferences are similar, once you get past NDSU.

[Grizalltheway]

Ahead of a three loss BSC - yes.
A two loss? Depends on the losses.

YSU choose an easy OOC schedule. Plus ISU-b and WIU are the same as the dregs of the BSC. As a whole, the two conferences are similar, once you get past NDSU.

This, and even then I don't think EWU is all that far behind NDSU in terms of quality.

[Herder]

Ahead of a three loss BSC - yes.
A two loss? Depends on the losses.

YSU choose an easy OOC schedule. Plus ISU-b and WIU are the same as the dregs of the BSC. As a whole, the two conferences are similar, once you get past NDSU.

Why does YSU need to get past NDSU? If they don't, that will give them 2 losses. If they win 2 of 3 vs. UNI, SDSU and NDSU . . . they are 10-2. I think that is/will be as good or better than nearly everyone in the BSC.

Did 2 loss NAU get past Montana State? Did 2 loss Montana get past NAU? Did 2 loss Eastern WA get past Sam Houston? Did 2 loss MT State get past SFA? Where is your logic?

The dregs of the MVFC are 1.5 deep. They are 5 deep in the BSC.

[Professor Chaos]

The USD/Montana game suddenly got a lot more interesting...

[F'N Hawks]

Thier loss to MI State does not look any better or worse than EWU's loss to Toledo. When you add in EWU's loss to Sam, why is EWU ahead of a one loss YSU?

Oregon State.

[dbackjon]

Why does YSU need to get past NDSU? If they don't, that will give them 2 losses. If they win 2 of 3 vs. UNI, SDSU and NDSU . . . they are 10-2. I think that is/will be as good or better than nearly everyone in the BSC.

Did 2 loss NAU get past Montana State? Did 2 loss Montana get past NAU? Did 2 loss Eastern WA get past Sam Houston? Did 2 loss MT State get past SFA? Where is your logic?

The dregs of the MVFC are 1.5 deep. They are 5 deep in the BSC.


Reading comprehension much?. Other than NDSU, the two conferences are similar. Big Sky is larger, so a couple more lousy teams, but the top half is as good (and likely better) than the MVFC

[dbackjon]

Oregon State.


This.

And YSU lost to Michigan State by 38. EWU lost by 12. Toledo is a good team. EWU should have played a Pioneer team instead.

[Herder]

Oregon State.
Sam Houston

[kalm]

This.

And YSU lost to Michigan State by 38. EWU lost by 12. Toledo is a good team. EWU should have played a Pioneer team instead.

This. And our schedule would still be much tougher than YSU's.

[Herder]

This.

And YSU lost to Michigan State by 38. EWU lost by 12. Toledo is a good team. EWU should have played a Pioneer team instead.

Take away the Toledo loss (we'll give you a Moral Victory at 7-1-1), and what do you have? The same number of losses as YSU! Go figure

[kalm]

Take away the Toledo loss (we'll give you a Moral Victory at 7-1-1), and what do you have? The same number of losses as YSU! Go figure

With higher quality wins against a much tougher schedule.

[BisonFan02]

With higher quality wins against a much tougher schedule.

Outside of the Oregon St. win....I would say no. Losses to SHSU and Toledo, your wins include a "good TBD" against Montana (similar to SIU? dunno), and wins over DII Western Oregon, UND, Idaho St., Weber St., and SUU....I would slow the roll a bit on tougher schedule. A win over SHSU would definitely have helped.

[birdsflyhigh]

FINALLY....posters are starting to see the light on the BSC.

[robsnotes4u]

With higher quality wins against a much tougher schedule.

you are correct by the SRS

#31 EWU SOS 20.4
#60 YSU SOS 16.4

#8 EWU SRS 32.3
#15 YSU SRS 29.6

Take in to account the ranking include any non FBS schools (you have NW Missour St and Pittsburgh State in the top 11 of the SRS)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

EWU is head and shoulders above everyone in the BSC imo. That point will be driven home this weekend....

Montana is solid but they are not seed worthy based on the eye test or the resume test. Their best win is over? Cal Poly? I'm also not sure why they scheduled a game against OKlahoma-Panhandle State either. I would not be shocked if USD beats them which will force the Griz to beat MSU to make the playoffs.

[kalm]

Outside of the Oregon St. win....I would say no. Losses to SHSU and Toledo, your wins include a "good TBD" against Montana (similar to SIU? dunno), and wins over DII Western Oregon, UND, Idaho St., Weber St., and SUU....I would slow the roll a bit on tougher schedule. A win over SHSU would definitely have helped.

To steal the SoS rankings from the other thread, YSU has an even weaker schedule than Montana at 180. Eastern is at 131...one the stronger ones in FCS. YSU's best wins are against SIU and ISUr. Eastern has wins against a previously ranked and 6-3 FBS, top 15 and 8-2 Montana, and 6-3 SUU who has an FBS win of their own.

Sorry, but its not even close.

[birdsflyhigh]

The thing is YSU has NDSU, UNI and SDSU all still left on their schedule, so the lowest SOS ranked MVFC school will still be higher than Montana.

[IBleedYellow]

Thankfully we have playoffs....?

[kalm]

The thing is YSU has NDSU, UNI and still left on their schedule, so the lowest SOS ranked MVFC school will still be higher than Montana.

Montana has USD and MSU left. Some advantage to YSU, but they also have some catching up to do according to Sagarin who has them at 180 and UM at 160.

[semobison]

EWU is head and shoulders above everyone in the BSC imo. That point will be driven home this weekend....

Montana is solid but they are not seed worthy based on the eye test or the resume test. Their best win is over? Cal Poly? I'm also not sure why they scheduled a game against OKlahoma-Panhandle State either. I would not be shocked if USD beats them which will force the Griz to beat MSU to make the playoffs.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Griz lose to the Yotes this weekend either. EWU, do you remember your last trip to Vermillion? Comparing the Big Sky to the MVFC is foolish. One conference plays a more physical ground and pound, the other is more wide open offense with not as much defense. Lets see if the Griz can handle a middle of the pack Valley team this weekend on the road!

[thebootfitter]

Forgive the formatting, as I'm not a HTML guy, but below are the top 35 FCS teams in descending order of schedule strength per Sagarin.

Noteworthy, I think is that NDSU and EWU both are near the top, yet still have very good W-L records.



63.27
Austin Peay


63.22
Southern Illinois


62.42
Weber State


61.25
SE Missouri State


60.93
Indiana State


60.58
Western Carolina


59.61
Villanova


58.77
South Dakota State


58.33
North Dakota State


58.01
Western Illinois


57.87
Eastern Washington


57.59
Northern Iowa


57.48
Lamar


57.15
Northwestern State


56.85
South Dakota


56.78
Illinois State


56.19
Stephen F. Austin


55.98
Stony Brook


55.9
Nicholls State


55.81
Northern Arizona


55.68
New Hampshire


55.3
Idaho State


54.99
Southern Utah


54.97
North Dakota


54.77
Cal Poly-SLO


54.6
Missouri State


54.54
Northern Colorado


54.48
UC Davis


54.37
Eastern Illinois


54.2
Tennessee Tech


54.1
Sacramento State


54.1
Murray State


54.1
Incarnate Word


54.09
McNeese State


53.58
Montana

[F'N Hawks]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Griz lose to the Yotes this weekend either. EWU, do you remember your last trip to Vermillion? Comparing the Big Sky to the MVFC is foolish. One conference plays a more physical ground and pound, the other is more wide open offense with not as much defense. Lets see if the Griz can handle a middle of the pack Valley team this weekend on the road!

Complete non-sense proven by OOC results. You guys really need to stop the "no-defense" thing. Teams are going to look like they play better defense when the opposing offense prefers to run the ball out of power formations vs. spreading it out and going faster tempo's. Similar to the old NCC days. Not saying one is better but numbers in conference play are going to be slightly skewed. Like I said, past playoff results and OOC games will show that those "tough MVFC defenses" get lit up like everyone else.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Sam Houston

Sorry man, kind of a dumb retort there. That's a pretty strong loss on the road which will be very minimal compared to the OSU win when comparing resumes.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Austin Peay is tops because they've faced 3 FBS schools.

The others are there because they've either played an FBS school or are in proximity of many teams that have played FBS schools (and, preferably, won).

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Griz lose to the Yotes this weekend either. EWU, do you remember your last trip to Vermillion? Comparing the Big Sky to the MVFC is foolish. One conference plays a more physical ground and pound, the other is more wide open offense with not as much defense. Lets see if the Griz can handle a middle of the pack Valley team this weekend on the road!

The Griz are a middle of the pack BSC team and are a team built on physical game play as well.

[birdsflyhigh]

That's amazing that 8 of the top 16 SOS schools are in The MVFC. Think it shows that Valley schools non-con foes were pretty darn good....cool. xrotatehx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That's amazing that 8 of the top 16 SOS schools are in The MVFC. Think it shows that Valley schools non-con foes were pretty darn good....cool. xrotatehx

What % of their teams schedule FBS games compared to other conferences?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What % of their teams schedule FBS games compared to other conferences?

The MVFC has 11 FBS games, with Indiana State scheduling two. So over 1/4 of their OOC games are FBS games.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The MVFC has 11 FBS games, with Indiana State scheduling two. So just a hair over 1/3 of their OOC games are FBS games.

Which does "inflate" teams SOS....and I'm stopping there.....

[birdsflyhigh]

I would call it EARNING a SOS instead of "inflating" a SOS. I'm thankful that Valley schools go out and schedule TOUGH games for their non-cons. YES!xbowx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I would call it EARNING a SOS instead of "inflating" a SOS. I'm thankful that Valley schools go out and schedule TOUGH games for their non-cons. YES!xbowx

They do it because of $$. Lets not kid ourselves. Most of these schools are "rather poor"....

[birdsflyhigh]

It is what it is. There's no kidding that MVFC school's have EARNED their SOS, so you can slice it anyway you want okay?

[Silenoz]

Remember the days before all the "my conference can beat up your conference" crap? I miss that

Instead now we have an Illinois State fan (?) riding NDSU's coattails

[Grizalltheway]

I would call it EARNING a SOS instead of "inflating" a SOS. I'm thankful that Valley schools go out and schedule TOUGH games for their non-cons. YES!xbowx

You can be as thankful as you want, the rest of us will still be l-o-ling at you for scheduling yourselves out of the playoffs.

[birdsflyhigh]

Guess you may be overlooking my whole point : SOS is now going to matter quite a bit come playoff selection time. Advantage....MVFC!

[Silenoz]

Yes, the teams that actually made the playoffs will be sitting pretty




(I'd seed a 10-2 YSU over a 10-2 UM)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yes, the teams that actually made the playoffs will be sitting pretty




(I'd seed a 10-2 YSU over a 10-2 UM)

It'll be interesting to see how that SOS matches up at the end.

[Grizzlies82]

Guess you may be overlooking my whole point : SOS is now going to matter quite a bit come playoff selection time. Advantage....MVFC!

I know I shouldn't but... A strong Strength of Schedule combined with an 8-4 record is still a team that lost 1/3rd of their games. Advantage... winning your games.

[thebootfitter]

I know I shouldn't but... A strong Strength of Schedule combined with an 8-4 record is still a team that lost 1/3rd of their games. Advantage... winning your games.
So, you'd have had Lehigh in the playoffs last year? Serious question.

[IBleedYellow]

So, you'd have had Lehigh in the playoffs last year? Serious question.

They didn't lose 1/3rd of their games. Only 1/11th. ;)

[birdsflyhigh]

Yes, by all means overall record should be the end all for which teams get into the playoffs....NO NO NO. Seriously? Those opinion based days may be soon be coming to an end for a lot of teams that just drafted their ways into the playoffs with a pretty record and not much substance to really show.

Anyhow, I'm stepping back from this as I've only put facts out there, and I've seemed to angered a couple of posters. Maybe it's just the regular AGS banter back and forth...who knows? I'm looking forward to the rest of the regular season and the playoffs. Should be pretty interesting the next few weeks...COOL!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Where in the world have you seen anger? I see fact based discussion with little emotion in this thread. Fact based on both sides btw.

[semobison]

[QUOTE=ursus arctos horribilis;2043760]The Griz are a middle of the pack BSC team and are a team built on physical game play as well.[/QUOTE

I agree that Montana has been traditionally a more offensively balanced, more physical team than what you see in some the Big Sky. Are they mid pack this year? They wont be if they can win out. They really don't have any big wins as of yet, and defensively, I know they have struggled recently, giving up a lot of yards through the air. If they beat SD this weekend, IMO it will be a pretty good win. Id love to see the GRIZ in the playoffs, in Fargo!

[BisonFan02]

Where in the world have you seen anger? I see fact based discussion with little emotion in this thread. Fact based on both sides btw.

Happy Dance!

http://sa.peteyproductions.net/savedimage/sports/hockey/bruins%20dancing%20bear.gif

[ursus arctos horribilis]

[QUOTE=ursus arctos horribilis;2043760]The Griz are a middle of the pack BSC team and are a team built on physical game play as well.[/QUOTE

I agree that Montana has been traditionally a more offensively balanced, more physical team than what you see in some the Big Sky. Are they mid pack this year? They wont be if they can win out. They really don't have any big wins as of yet, and defensively, I know they have struggled recently, giving up a lot of yards through the air. If they beat SD this weekend, IMO it will be a pretty good win. Id love to see the GRIZ in the playoffs, in Fargo!

You might not believe this or more likely subscribe to my take but I think USD is a pretty good team but Sac St. going in to these couple of games I was probably slightly more worried about the physical nature and all around game of Sac than USD as I've seen em' both play but of course now that the game is behind us I'm concerned of some matchups with USD for sure. Sac's toughness is undervalued by some I guarantee you that.

We are very exploitable on defense but not because of personnel from what I can see. If they put it together it would be an extremely tough D to move against...but we haven't done that yet.

We're upper mid pack right now and if we win out we'll be in the top 4 so at the botttom of the top 1/3rd probably.

Just like every time you play an SLC team you hear about speed the MVFC crew normally goes with physicality and when we've been on the field with them we haven't been outmatched in that regard.

[Grizalltheway]

[QUOTE=semobison;2043859]

You might not believe this or more likely subscribe to my take but I think USD is a pretty good team but Sac St. going in to these couple of games I was probably slightly more worried about the physical nature and all around game of Sac than USD as I've seen em' both play but of course now that the game is behind us I'm concerned of some matchups with USD for sure. Sac's toughness is undervalued by some I guarantee you that.

We are very exploitable on defense but not because of personnel from what I can see. If they put it together it would be an extremely tough D to move against...but we haven't done that yet.

We're upper mid pack right now and if we win out we'll be in the top 4 so at the botttom of the top 1/3rd probably.

Just like every time you play an SLC team you hear about speed the MVFC crew normally goes with physicality and when we've been on the field with them we haven't been outmatched in that regard.

Yeah things worked out pretty well the last time we faced a vaunted team from the Valley.

[citdog]

I was once one who thought of the Big Sky as kind of soft and pass happy. I saw the Cal Poly-Griz game and it was as physical of a game as any I have ever seen in the SoCon. Those two teams beat the hell out of each other for 4 quarters.

[Grizzlies82]

So, you'd have had Lehigh in the playoffs last year? Serious question.

I don't remember last year's playoffs, nor Lehigh's record then. Damn it man, I am a Montana fan and was in mourning throughout that period of time.


Though I can say a 7-2 Delaware is PROBABLY better than an 8-1 Bethune-Cookman. An 8-1 Youngstown is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Fordham. Finally, a 7-2 Sam Houston is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Coastal Carolina. No, I don't KNOW if any of those is correct. Yet past experience suggests an impressive win/loss record earned in a weak conference is not a dependable indicator of strength. So no I don't believe a team's record is the sole barometer of their worth. On the other hand, several losses (potentially large losses) does not help a team build its resume no matter how strong their SOS was. Bottom line, until proven otherwise I'll continue to assume a 10-2 team from the CAA, MV, or Big Sky may be better than an undefeated team from the NEC, Patriot, etc... There will be years when that is incorrect. However, for the most part that assumption has proven to be true in actual playoff games.

[Twentysix]

I don't remember last year's playoffs, nor Lehigh's record then. Damn it man, I am a Montana fan and was in mourning throughout that period of time.


Though I can say a 7-2 Delaware is PROBABLY better than an 8-1 Bethune-Cookman. An 8-1 Youngstown is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Fordham. Finally, a 7-2 Sam Houston is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Coastal Carolina. No, I don't KNOW if any of those is correct. Yet past experience suggests an impressive win/loss record earned in a weak conference is not a dependable indicator of strength. So no I don't believe a team's record is the sole barometer of their worth. On the other hand, several losses (potentially large losses) does not help a team build its resume no matter how strong their SOS was. Bottom line, until proven otherwise I'll continue to assume a 10-2 team from the CAA, MV, or Big Sky may be better than an undefeated team from the NEC, Patriot, etc... There will be years when that is incorrect. However, for the most part that assumption has proven to be true in actual playoff games.

https://www.nmnathletics.com/pics32/800/VX/VXTIZUHKAJBJIYP.20130107233423.jpg

That's all you need to know.

[Grizzlies82]

https://www.nmnathletics.com/pics32/800/VX/VXTIZUHKAJBJIYP.20130107233423.jpg

That's all you need to know.

I believe it was better when I had it all blacked out.

[IBleedYellow]

I was once one who thought of the Big Sky as kind of soft and pass happy. I saw the Cal Poly-Griz game and it was as physical of a game as any I have ever seen in the SoCon. Those two teams beat the hell out of each other for 4 quarters.

I've never said that about the Griz or Cal Poly, but the rest of them are just that. Pass Happy.

[thebootfitter]

Guess you may be overlooking my whole point : SOS is now going to matter quite a bit come playoff selection time. Advantage....MVFC!

I know I shouldn't but... A strong Strength of Schedule combined with an 8-4 record is still a team that lost 1/3rd of their games. Advantage... winning your games.

Though I can say a 7-2 Delaware is PROBABLY better than an 8-1 Bethune-Cookman. An 8-1 Youngstown is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Fordham. Finally, a 7-2 Sam Houston is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Coastal Carolina. No, I don't KNOW if any of those is correct. Yet past experience suggests an impressive win/loss record earned in a weak conference is not a dependable indicator of strength. So no I don't believe a team's record is the sole barometer of their worth. On the other hand, several losses (potentially large losses) does not help a team build its resume no matter how strong their SOS was. Bottom line, until proven otherwise I'll continue to assume a 10-2 team from the CAA, MV, or Big Sky may be better than an undefeated team from the NEC, Patriot, etc... There will be years when that is incorrect. However, for the most part that assumption has proven to be true in actual playoff games.

I'm not trying to call you out here, as I may be missing something, but it sure seems that you are waffling. Birdsflyhigh said SoS matters. You essentially said it doesn't. ("Advantage... winning your games.") Then in your most recent post above, you suggest that SoS is more important than W-L record.

Last year, a Lehigh team with a very good record (10-1?) but poor SoS was left at home. I think that was Birds' point, which you appeared to dispute.

To get into the playoffs at all, you have to have a baseline decent record, I think. 6-5 won't do it, no matter your strength of schedule. But history shows an 8-4 team with a very strong schedule will probably have an advantage over a 10-2 team with a weak schedule, for example.

[Grizalltheway]

I'm not trying to call you out here, as I may be missing something, but it sure seems that you are waffling. Birdsflyhigh said SoS matters. You essentially said it doesn't. ("Advantage... winning your games.") Then in your most recent post above, you suggest that SoS is more important than W-L record.

Last year, a Lehigh team with a very good record (10-1?) but poor SoS was left at home. I think that was Birds' point, which you appeared to dispute.

To get into the playoffs at all, you have to have a baseline decent record, I think. 6-5 won't do it, no matter your strength of schedule. But history shows an 8-4 team with a very strong schedule will probably have an advantage over a 10-2 team with a weak schedule, for example.

As far as seeding is concerned? Lol no, unless all four losses were to SEC teams.

[kalm]

I've never said that about the Griz or Cal Poly, but the rest of them are just that. Pass Happy.

Ummmm...might wanna check out PSU's run stats the past couple of years. Or perhaps NAU's offense. Take a look at MSU's run vs. pass stats this year. Seem to also remember a certain MVFC team giving up 220 on the ground in one half to another "pass happy" BSC team in a playoff game a few years back...

[thebootfitter]

As far as seeding is concerned? Lol no, unless all four losses were to SEC teams.
Yeah, I guess in the context of the original question, the 10-2 team may be favored for a seed. But to make it into playoffs at all (which we've also been discussing), I think the 8-4 team may have the advantage in this scenario.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah, I guess in the context of the original question, the 10-2 team may be favored for a seed. But to make it into playoffs at all (which we've also been discussing), I think the 8-4 team may have the advantage in this scenario.

Yes, if you are comparing a top 4 conference to those outside of the top 4 but I read you as taking the extreme and not comparing the equals but bringing in one from a traditionally weaker conference. I think it's more likely that wins mean a little more on the resume of a Montana compared to a YSU than for a comparision of a YSU vs. say a San Diego.

[SeattleGriz]

Yeah things worked out pretty well the last time we faced a vaunted team from the Valley.

The same team that, pre-injuries, struggled to put away a N Colorado team until the 4th quarter 26-7. A Big Sky cellar dwellar. How's that work? A MVC team that was being talked about as a top #5 seed plays the worst team in the Big Sky and is only up 13-7 at the end of the 3rd?

Edit to Ursus: Happy now?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ummmm...might wanna check out PSU's run stats the past couple of years. Or perhaps NAU's offense. Take a look at MSU's run vs. pass stats this year. Seem to also remember a certain MVFC team giving up 220 on the ground in one half to another "pass happy" BSC team in a playoff game a few years back...

Even though BSCTV is free I don't think people have the time on Saturdays to get see some of those teams and don't realize they are not exactly on point. NAU, PSU, Sac, MSU, and EWU can all run and are physical teams although they may be a little smaller at certain spots on the field...they can play physical ball. They just all have pretty damn good QB's and WR's as well.

Does that make up a difference? Sometimes it does, sometimes it falls short.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Would you guys fix the quotes so it's attributed to the correct person. I don't want to look the dick when GATW throws in a slider! xlolx

[kalm]

Would you guys fix the quotes so it's attributed to the correct person. I don't want to look the dick when GATW throws in a slider! xlolx

That was a dangerous sentence to type.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That was a dangerous sentence to type.

I live on the edge.

[D1A]

Yes, by all means overall record should be the end all for which teams get into the playoffs....NO NO NO. Seriously? Those opinion based days may be soon be coming to an end for a lot of teams that just drafted their ways into the playoffs with a pretty record and not much substance to really show.

Anyhow, I'm stepping back from this as I've only put facts out there, and I've seemed to angered a couple of posters. Maybe it's just the regular AGS banter back and forth...who knows? I'm looking forward to the rest of the regular season and the playoffs. Should be pretty interesting the next few weeks...COOL!

Calm down Lorena Bobbit, no need to go off half cocked

[semobison]

Ummmm...might wanna check out PSU's run stats the past couple of years. Or perhaps NAU's offense. Take a look at MSU's run vs. pass stats this year. Seem to also remember a certain MVFC team giving up 220 on the ground in one half to another "pass happy" BSC team in a playoff game a few years back...

You can spin things all you want. Yes there are Big Sky teams who can run the football. And, I remember that year! A 4-4 MVFC team beats the Big Sky co-champs 42-17 running for 367 then loses to you guys in the quarters! You had a damn good team with a pretty good RB that season. Again, we were 4-4 that year in the Valley. A few weeks earlier a 5-6 Missouri State team held us to 42 yards rushing shutting us out. I don't know and I don't much care which conference is better. I try to stay out of those pissing matches. What I do know is in the MVFC every week is physical and if you play poorly you might get beat.

[kalm]

You can spin things all you want. Yes there are Big Sky teams who can run the football. And, I remember that year! A 4-4 MVFC team beats the Big Sky co-champs 42-17 running for 367 then loses to you guys in the quarters! You had a damn good team with a pretty good RB that season. Again, we were 4-4 that year in the Valley. A few weeks earlier a 5-6 Missouri State team held us to 42 yards rushing shutting us out. I don't know and I don't much care which conference is better. I try to stay out of those pissing matches. What I do know is in the MVFC every week is physical and if you play poorly you might get beat.

Same with the Big Sky. Good God...I think I've struck a nerve!

[semobison]

Same with the Big Sky. Good God...I think I've struck a nerve!

Don't be an ass hat! You already have one of those in your fan base!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Though I can say a 7-2 Delaware is PROBABLY better than an 8-1 Bethune-Cookman. An 8-1 Youngstown is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Fordham. Finally, a 7-2 Sam Houston is PROBABLY better than a 9-0 Coastal Carolina. No, I don't KNOW if any of those is correct. Yet past experience suggests an impressive win/loss record earned in a weak conference is not a dependable indicator of strength. So no I don't believe a team's record is the sole barometer of their worth.

Yeah, Sam Houston really blew that theory out of the water xrolleyesx

[SeattleGriz]

Yeah, Sam Houston really blew that theory out of the water xrolleyesx

He did say, "dependable" not "for sure" indicator. Nice try at cherry picking.

[F'N Hawks]

You can spin things all you want. Yes there are Big Sky teams who can run the football. And, I remember that year! A 4-4 MVFC team beats the Big Sky co-champs 42-17 running for 367 then loses to you guys in the quarters! You had a damn good team with a pretty good RB that season. Again, we were 4-4 that year in the Valley. A few weeks earlier a 5-6 Missouri State team held us to 42 yards rushing shutting us out. I don't know and I don't much care which conference is better. I try to stay out of those pissing matches. What I do know is in the MVFC every week is physical and if you play poorly you might get beat.
How about UNI vs Montana or Ill State vs EWash in playoffs? Where were was that smashmouth D in those games?

[SeattleGriz]

How about UNI vs Montana or Ill State vs EWash in playoffs? Where were was that smashmouth D in those games?

Uh, Montana held UNI to ten. Pretty good.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[F'N Hawks]

Uh, Montana held UNI to ten. Pretty good.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Uh, I am talking about how many the Big Sky teams hung on the tough MVFC defenses.

[Grizzlies82]

I'm not trying to call you out here, as I may be missing something, but it sure seems that you are waffling. Birdsflyhigh said SoS matters. You essentially said it doesn't. ("Advantage... winning your games.") Then in your most recent post above, you suggest that SoS is more important than W-L record.

Last year, a Lehigh team with a very good record (10-1?) but poor SoS was left at home. I think that was Birds' point, which you appeared to dispute.

To get into the playoffs at all, you have to have a baseline decent record, I think. 6-5 won't do it, no matter your strength of schedule. But history shows an 8-4 team with a very strong schedule will probably have an advantage over a 10-2 team with a weak schedule, for example.

Sorry I didn't express it well. There are several aspects. First, I agree SOS is important. None the less, losses playing a strong schedule diminish the value of a SOS argument.

Then there are the historically weak conferences. This is an additional handicap they face which diminishes the value of their possible sterling records. Historically they have not competed well with the traditionally stronger conferences. This bias will remain until disproven on the field. This year's Fordham (9-0) may be our next National Champion. However, that conference has sent more patsy teams into the playoffs than contenders. So (regardless of actual SOS) a 9-0 NDSU will get a better seed than a 9-0 Fordham. Similarly a 10-2 Youngstown could also get a better seed than an undefeated Fordham. As much as their actual SOS, this "You've never proven anything to me" attitude is why a 10-1 Lehigh was left home last year. I don't think it was right but I understand why it was.

In essence four elements have been factors in awarding playoff slots; SOS, conference affiliation, momentum, and records. Each is part of the mix. The SOS is crucial if comparing two 8-4 teams. Though a strong SOS will be trumped by a poor win/loss record. If Youngstown loses their remaining 3 games (UNI, NDSU, & SD St) they'd maintain a strong strength of schedule yet end up at 8-4. Meanwhile Northern Arizona at 9-2, who may have played a comparatively weaker schedule, will probably be awarded a better playoff position. Hence my "Advantage... winning games" comment. Hope this clarifies my comments better.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sorry I didn't express it well. There are several aspects. First, I agree SOS is important. None the less, losses playing a strong schedule diminish the value of a SOS argument.

Then there are the historically weak conferences. This is an additional handicap they face which diminishes the value of their possible sterling records. Historically they have not competed well with the traditionally stronger conferences. This bias will remain until disproven on the field. This year's Fordham (9-0) may be our next National Champion. However, that conference has sent more patsy teams into the playoffs than contenders. So (regardless of actual SOS) a 9-0 NDSU will get a better seed than a 9-0 Fordham. Similarly a 10-2 Youngstown could also get a better seed than an undefeated Fordham. As much as their actual SOS, this "You've never proven anything to me" attitude is why a 10-1 Lehigh was left home last year.

Yeah, beating Towson, Richmond, Northern Iowa, Western Illinois, and Hosftra in the playoffs proved nothing over the last fifteen years xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[SeattleGriz]

Uh, I am talking about how many the Big Sky teams hung on the tough MVFC defenses.

Gotcha!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Grizzlies82]

Yeah, beating Towson, Richmond, Northern Iowa, Western Illinois, and Hosftra in the playoffs proved nothing over the last fifteen years xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Not trying to get nasty here, but are you saying they (a team or conference) have won five playoff games in 15 years?
If so, my next question would be, "Out of how many attempts (beyond the obvious 15 year stretch mentioned)?"

[Walkon79]

I've never said that about the Griz or Cal Poly, but the rest of them are just that. Pass Happy.

Really? Have you watched the Cats lately?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not trying to get nasty here, but are you saying they (a team or conference) have won five playoff games in 15 years?
If so, my next question would be, "Out of how many attempts (beyond the obvious 15 year stretch mentioned)?"

Lehigh qualified for the playoffs seven times over the last fifteen years, and twice were denied the playoffs being squarely on the bubble (2003 with an 8-3 record and a loss to FBS UConn, and last season with a 10-1 record). Of those seven times, five times they've won their first-round games.

As for the rest of the league, Fordham beat Northeastern the year they won the A-10/CAA, and Colgate of course made it all the way to the I-AA Championship game in 2003. Lafayette had App State on the ropes in their first championship year (and an atrocious flag thrown on a recovered onsides kick by the Leopards helped the Mountaineers escape with a win), and there are other sundry close calls with the CAA in the playoffs involving Lafayette, Fordham, and Holy Cross.

The Patriot League hasn't produced a team that make it back to Frisco yet. We'll see if Fordham is that team. They might be.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh qualified for the playoffs seven times over the last fifteen years, and twice were denied the playoffs being squarely on the bubble (2003 with an 8-3 record and a loss to FBS UConn, and last season with a 10-1 record). Of those seven times, five times they've won their first-round games.

As for the rest of the league, Fordham beat Northeastern the year they won the A-10/CAA, and Colgate of course made it all the way to the I-AA Championship game in 2003. Lafayette had App State on the ropes in their first championship year (and an atrocious flag thrown on a recovered onsides kick by the Leopards helped the Mountaineers escape with a win), and there are other sundry close calls with the CAA in the playoffs involving Lafayette, Fordham, and Holy Cross.

The Patriot League hasn't produced a team that make it back to Frisco yet. We'll see if Fordham is that team. They might be.

LFN if you looked up who the PL teams lost to in the playoffs you'd be shocked. Their defeats are almost always to the champion or runner-up. In '98 it was both....

LU has lost to 3 national champs and 2 runner-ups. I'll take going toe-2-toe with champions than winning another game against weaker competition. It's also nearly impossible to advance without home games....

[Grizzlies82]

Lehigh qualified for the playoffs seven times over the last fifteen years, and twice were denied the playoffs being squarely on the bubble (2003 with an 8-3 record and a loss to FBS UConn, and last season with a 10-1 record). Of those seven times, five times they've won their first-round games.

As for the rest of the league, Fordham beat Northeastern the year they won the A-10/CAA, and Colgate of course made it all the way to the I-AA Championship game in 2003. Lafayette had App State on the ropes in their first championship year (and an atrocious flag thrown on a recovered onsides kick by the Leopards helped the Mountaineers escape with a win), and there are other sundry close calls with the CAA in the playoffs involving Lafayette, Fordham, and Holy Cross.

The Patriot League hasn't produced a team that make it back to Frisco yet. We'll see if Fordham is that team. They might be.

Thanks for the info. Lehigh should have been included last year, especially within a 20 team field. SOS does matter but unless your schedule is entirely a slew of DII, or NAIA, I still believe 10-1 falls under the category of "Advantage... Winning your games". Perhaps you don't deserve a seed, but you certainly deserve a chance to show you're for real. I believe that is why we appreciate our playoff system. Those who get in can demonstrate they belong. Lehigh wasn't given that chance.

Personally I'm still not sold on Fordham being a contender. However I've not seen them play. So I will keep an open mind. I'm looking forward to seeing how some of these teams with gaudy records such as Fordham, Coastal Carolina, and Charleston Southern match up and fare against the usual suspects. Though at this point if I had to make a call, I'd put my money on an Eastern WA or SE Louisiana over any of these.

[thebootfitter]

It probably goes without saying, but worth saying anyway, no matter who ends up in the playoffs, there is sure to be some very exciting football coming up in the next couple months!

[citdog]

LFN if you looked up who the PL teams lost to in the playoffs you'd be shocked. Their defeats are almost always to the champion or runner-up. In '98 it was both....

LU has lost to 3 national champs and 2 runner-ups. I'll take going toe-2-toe with champions than winning another game against weaker competition. It's also nearly impossible to advance without home games....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryLuwmscZKc

[Houndawg]

Calm down Lorena Bobbit, no need to go off half cocked

Speaking of Lorena Bobbit, I read that recently she was involved in a bad car accident. Apparently some dick cut her off.

[Grizo406]

Would you guys fix the quotes so it's attributed to the correct person. I don't want to look the dick when GATW throws in a slider! xlolx


That time has long since passed...xcoffeex

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That time has long since passed...xcoffeex

YOUR TIME HAS PASSED!

Now shut your mouth Graham Cracker hips.

[MarkCCU]

Consider this: Montana and Charleston So. beat App State. Let that sink in. Is AppState that bad this year meaning the quality of that win is piss poor OR are the Griz and the Bucs that much better? SoS aside (and keep in mind that schools don't play CSU b/c historically they are weak. That might change next season or so), what does that win mean for Montana? Although, a close game, the Bucs controlled the ball for 42 minutes, AppState had it for 17. Just an interesting thought i'd throw out to the masses.

[Twentysix]

Consider this: Montana and Charleston So. beat App State. Let that sink in. Is AppState that bad this year meaning the quality of that win is piss poor OR are the Griz and the Bucs that much better? SoS aside (and keep in mind that schools don't play CSU b/c historically they are weak. That might change next season or so), what does that win mean for Montana? Although, a close game, the Bucs controlled the ball for 42 minutes, AppState had it for 17. Just an interesting thought i'd throw out to the masses.

What? Everyone beat App State. What rock have you been under?

[MarkCCU]

What? Everyone beat App State. What rock have you been under?
Elon and Georgia Southern fans would beg to differ. Apparently, i'm under the rock you are.

[dbackjon]

Elon and Georgia Southern fans would beg to differ. Apparently, i'm under the rock you are.

Sounds kinky

[MarkCCU]

Sounds kinky

You wish, Jon Boy!!


Sent from my iPhone

[Grizalltheway]

Consider this: Montana and Charleston So. beat App State. Let that sink in. Is AppState that bad this year meaning the quality of that win is piss poor OR are the Griz and the Bucs that much better? SoS aside (and keep in mind that schools don't play CSU b/c historically they are weak. That might change next season or so), what does that win mean for Montana? Although, a close game, the Bucs controlled the ball for 42 minutes, AppState had it for 17. Just an interesting thought i'd throw out to the masses.

Consider this: that was the first game of the season and means next to nothing a this point. The playoffs will decide who is better between UM and Chuck South.

[MarkCCU]

Consider this: that was the first game of the season and means next to nothing a this point. The playoffs will decide who is better between UM and Chuck South.

Excuses. That's all I'm hearing are excuses!!


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[robsnotes4u]

Excuses. That's all I'm hearing are excuses!!


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You have to realize the Griz fanbase put the team up on a pedestal after that win, and then week after week, loss after loss, people kept beating them up letting them know that App State was an inferior team. It is a huge sore spot this year.

[MarkCCU]

You have to realize the Griz fanbase put the team up on a pedestal after that win, and then week after week, loss after loss, people kept beating them up letting them know that App State was an inferior team. It is a huge sore spot this year.

They're putting the pussy on a pedestal.


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[ursus arctos horribilis]

You have to realize the Griz fanbase put the team up on a pedestal after that win, and then week after week, loss after loss, people kept beating them up letting them know that App State was an inferior team. It is a huge sore spot this year.

Please point out where and what you are referring to here. As much as I'm on this board I just haven't seen what you are talking about here. I don't know of any Montana fan here that gave a damn when they kept losing. MT fans as well as everyone else thought App was gonna be better and like everyone else we were surprised when they **** the bed like they did but nothing more than that. The win over App this year means no more than a win over a low level team from any power conference but still a counter...that's it.

[Grizalltheway]

You have to realize the Griz fanbase put the team up on a pedestal after that win, and then week after week, loss after loss, people kept beating them up letting them know that App State was an inferior team. It is a huge sore spot this year.

Again, I can't speak for all Griz fans, but I don't think any of us are too concerned with how App's season has gone. Much more focused on beating the quality teams that lie ahead of us. Let the past go, man. xthumbsupx

[Grizalltheway]

Damn it ursus, quit stealing my thunder you big bully! You're on the verge of going Incognito here.

[robsnotes4u]

I was referring to everyone telling the fans on egriz the hadn't played anyone good.

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[Grizo406]

YOUR TIME HAS PASSED!

Now shut your mouth Graham Cracker hips.

You shut your mouth!

See 2:45...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yDgkvWh3JQ

[frozennorth]

This.

There are likely forty schools at least that would have had the same OOC record as YSU. Three WEAK teams, and got blown out by a good FBS team.

At this point, NAU (and a number of other schools) have as good or better overall resume than YSU.

If YSU wins out, they are a seed. But, if they win two, but lose to NDSU, how can you say they have a better resume than (again, using NAU) a team that played all Full Schollie squads OOC and beat them? Both would have a FBS loss, and a conference loss to a top 5/10 team.
if the BSC is to have two seeds, at this point i think NAU has made the strongest case.

off the top of my head, presuming ysu goes 2-1 does the stretch:

NDSU EIU EWU MAINE FORDHAM YSU NAU SHSU with towson and ccu the first out.

[Grizalltheway]

Well well well, lookee what I found...

[tomq04]

can't help but lol after 15 pages of thread

[Grizzlies82]

Well well well, lookee what I found...

alltheway, Careful you are apt to be flagged for un-sportsman like conduct. Everyone is entitled to their opinions even the wrong ones.