Grambling Forfeit and Protest Puts Spotlight on Plight of HBCU's

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/10/grambling-forfeit-and-protest-puts.html

Had to weigh in on the mess in Grambling, which I think goes a lot deeper than drinking from water hoses on 90 degree days and alleged mold in the locker rooms.

[cmaxwellgsu]

I enjoyed your article, and liked that you stuck with pretty hard numbers to show the difficulties. However, it just begs to be discussed even if it's more subjective, why was there no investment in facilities or any saving for a rainy day? Looking at pictures of the weight room, you see disrepair and decay that took way longer than two years. There are a number of issues that add together to really cast a bad light on Grambling's president.

[citdog]

So Barack Obama is to blame. His appointee runs the Ed Dept and changed the criteria for the loans. VERY puzzling.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I enjoyed your article, and liked that you stuck with pretty hard numbers to show the difficulties. However, it just begs to be discussed even if it's more subjective, why was there no investment in facilities or any saving for a rainy day? Looking at pictures of the weight room, you see disrepair and decay that took way longer than two years. There are a number of issues that add together to really cast a bad light on Grambling's president.

It's amazing that they can't get a capital campaign together with all the money that the Football program brings in. That Bayou Classic HAS to generate a ton of money.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If this isn't a good example of why revenue sports should be exempt from Title IX I don't know what is. So Grambling is looking at the real possibility of having to drop football even though they play in probably the most lucrative FCS game there is, the Bayou Classic. Of course, these days political correctness is more important than common sense.

[walliver]

There is no easy answer for Grambling (or any of the other HBCU's)
African-Americans are increasingly likely to attend non-HBCU's. There is no reason to expect this to change.

"Classic" attendance is down. Top athletes of any race are generally going to BCS schools. The on-field product is down. The first I-AA championship was won by an HBCU, but few HBCU's currently compete at the top level of FCS.

Modifying their mission to target first-in-the-family-to attend-college students means they are accepting a lot of marginal students, and marginal students are much less likely to graduate. This is a major source of SC State's financial issues (of course, corruption also plays a role).

Grambling's issues are, IMHO, exacerbated by the fact that Louisiana created an almost complete parallel black higher education system. If you look at a Louisiana HBCU, there is almost always a "white" school within a stones throw, e.g., Southern-LSU, SUNO-UNO, GSU-LaTech. It is quite inefficient. The obvious "business solution" is to combine the schools, but that is politically untenable.

[roknows50]

There is no easy answer for Grambling (or any of the other HBCU's)
African-Americans are increasingly likely to attend non-HBCU's. There is no reason to expect this to change.

"Classic" attendance is down. Top athletes of any race are generally going to BCS schools. The on-field product is down. The first I-AA championship was won by an HBCU, but few HBCU's currently compete at the top level of FCS.

Modifying their mission to target first-in-the-family-to attend-college students means they are accepting a lot of marginal students, and marginal students are much less likely to graduate. This is a major source of SC State's financial issues (of course, corruption also plays a role).

Grambling's issues are, IMHO, exacerbated by the fact that Louisiana created an almost complete parallel black higher education system. If you look at a Louisiana HBCU, there is almost always a "white" school within a stones throw, e.g., Southern-LSU, SUNO-UNO, GSU-LaTech. It is quite inefficient. The obvious "business solution" is to combine the schools, but that is politically untenable.



We don't have the same problems as Grambling. It isn't an all HBCU issues. It is a least resource issue. Some HBCUs are just fine. Some aren't.

We have developed the infrastructure to fund raise and those problems are tough for most schools.

HBCU staffs are generally more diverse than majority schools. That is something that isn't talked about, but HBCUs should mention when discussing issues of diversity.

[BluBengal07]

There is no easy answer for Grambling (or any of the other HBCU's)
African-Americans are increasingly likely to attend non-HBCU's. There is no reason to expect this to change.

"Classic" attendance is down. Top athletes of any race are generally going to BCS schools. The on-field product is down. The first I-AA championship was won by an HBCU, but few HBCU's currently compete at the top level of FCS.

Modifying their mission to target first-in-the-family-to attend-college students means they are accepting a lot of marginal students, and marginal students are much less likely to graduate. This is a major source of SC State's financial issues (of course, corruption also plays a role).

Grambling's issues are, IMHO, exacerbated by the fact that Louisiana created an almost complete parallel black higher education system. If you look at a Louisiana HBCU, there is almost always a "white" school within a stones throw, e.g., Southern-LSU, SUNO-UNO, GSU-LaTech. It is quite inefficient. The obvious "business solution" is to combine the schools, but that is politically untenable.

challenge...
- i will assume you mean't African American student athletes to better support your statement. there are many factors out there that impacts a student decision to chose a particular institution. it just happens that larger PWIs match more check items for some students. African Americans are still a very small percentage of the student body population at PWIs. even at levels of faculty and administration.
JSU is experiencing the highest enrollment numbers in the school's history. a high percentage of this year's incoming Freshmen are in the Honors College. not sure there is no reason to change though.

- are you saying HBCUs have altered their missions or just stating that was the practice of SC State?

- very interesting. never looked at it across the board. with assume the PWI was established first, the HBCU was established to support the blacks and non-whites in that area of need. i don't know the history on that though. just an assumption.

[bluehenbillk]

It's amazing that they can't get a capital campaign together with all the money that the Football program brings in. That Bayou Classic HAS to generate a ton of money.

Does it really? How much do the schools get from NBC? Renting out the Superdome eats into your ticket $$ take as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

- are you saying HBCUs have altered their missions or just stating that was the practice of SC State?



Some definitely have, most notably Delaware State and (I think) Norfolk State.

[DFW HOYA]

Does it really? How much do the schools get from NBC? Renting out the Superdome eats into your ticket $$ take as well.

The two schools split $1.3 million in 2012 from all sources.

http://www.nola.com/bayouclassic/index.ssf/2012/03/southern_and_grambling_generat.html

[walliver]

challenge...
- i will assume you mean't African American student athletes to better support your statement. there are many factors out there that impacts a student decision to chose a particular institution. it just happens that larger PWIs match more check items for some students. African Americans are still a very small percentage of the student body population at PWIs. even at levels of faculty and administration.
JSU is experiencing the highest enrollment numbers in the school's history. a high percentage of this year's incoming Freshmen are in the Honors College. not sure there is no reason to change though.

- are you saying HBCUs have altered their missions or just stating that was the practice of SC State?

- very interesting. never looked at it across the board. with assume the PWI was established first, the HBCU was established to support the blacks and non-whites in that area of need. i don't know the history on that though. just an assumption.

I know little about Jackson State. Most of my comments are related to issues brought up by the recent scandals at SC State.

Many of the qualified AA students who in the past would have attended SC State are going elsewhere. SC State has had to accept a large number of marginal students. A large number of them fail to maintain their grades and lose their lottery scholarships and drop out of school. Much state funding in SC is given to students, not directly to the schools. Dwindling enrollment has been financially. Their First Year Student Retention (full-time students) is 65%. Only 14% graduate in 4 years.

[WestCoastAggie]

So Barack Obama is to blame. His appointee runs the Ed Dept and changed the criteria for the loans. VERY puzzling.

That was honestly one decision that really hurts all HBCU's.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the part that blew me away the most was when the president himself went on a radio show and implored people to send a check to Grambling.


For those who care about Grambling State University please write a check. Send it to our Grambling University Foundation.

There's also that part where he said the university was on the cusp of "financial exigency". He didn't just let that leak by accident.

Not all HBCU's have the same serious issues as Grambling, but a lot are feeling a giant crunch. Even Howard, who probably has the largest endowment of all the HBCU's, is suffering.

[citdog]

That was honestly one decision that really hurts all HBCU's.

funny how roland martin, a race hate hustler, and LFN both tried to place the blame at the feet of this guy

http://www.alliantgroup.com/tasks/sites/_ag/assets/Image/bobby-jindal.jpg


when this is where the blame really should go





http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/Young-Barack-Obama-Modeling.jpg

[BluBengal07]

I know little about Jackson State. Most of my comments are related to issues brought up by the recent scandals at SC State.

Many of the qualified AA students who in the past would have attended SC State are going elsewhere. SC State has had to accept a large number of marginal students. A large number of them fail to maintain their grades and lose their lottery scholarships and drop out of school. Much state funding in SC is given to students, not directly to the schools. Dwindling enrollment has been financially. Their First Year Student Retention (full-time students) is 65%. Only 14% graduate in 4 years.

thanks for clearing that up walliver(what's a walliver?).
that looks like a dangerous approach. i'm not sure if these were academically at-risk students or just at-risk students. there is a difference. if an institution choosing to reach and accept these marginal students, it should be confirmed that they have the appropriate, additional programs and staff to support the population effectively. if not, they are setting themselves(and students) for failure.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

funny how roland martin, a race hate hustler, and LFN both tried to place the blame at the feet of this guy

In all honesty I think there is a lot of FAIL to go around.

[jstate83]

http://www.jsumsnews.com/?p=8916
Message regarding cancelled Homecoming game
by Jackson State University
October 22, 2013

The Jackson State University community experienced an unprecedented event during our Homecoming Week.

The cancellation of the football game was disappointing for faculty, staff, students, alumni and supporters. Yet we did not allow it to diminish our tradition of coming together and celebrating the university’s history and legacy.

Thank you for your assistance and patience for making this Homecoming like no other.

http://hbcudigest.com/category/commentary/
The Grambling State University football team boldly went on a blind date with history last Saturday when it skipped its homecoming date with Jackson State University. Now the jilted date wants, and deserves, a big payback.

Jackson State is right; as the most ambitious of the SWAC’s football member schools and the university with the best record of recent success on the gridiron, there’s no telling how much the JSU Tigers missed out on because of a canceled game against rival Grambling. The easy assumption is missed revenues in ticket sales, concessions, parking, tailgating and bookstore receipts.

But the real money on game day isn’t what is made off RV parking and smoked turkey legs; it’s the money that’s connected to handshakes and hugs in the VIP areas of Veterans Memorial Stadium. With ambitious and ongoing plans to build a domed stadium on the Jackson State campus, the Tigers are in the business of gladhanding and schmoozing the state and region’s legislative and business community to get investments and financial backing.

There’s no better place for those kind of feel good connections than in a suite at homecoming against Grambling State University.

[roknows50]

funny how roland martin, a race hate hustler, and LFN both tried to place the blame at the feet of this guy

http://www.alliantgroup.com/tasks/sites/_ag/assets/Image/bobby-jindal.jpg


when this is where the blame really should go





http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/Young-Barack-Obama-Modeling.jpg

I think the argument of blaming President Obama is a joke and miss placed. Our kids are taking out massive loans to attend our schools and most alumni giving is at 5%. That isn't President's fault.

Grambling is state ran, not Federally ran. If there is someone to blame for the higher education funding cuts in Louisiana, than that is one Mr. Jindal.

[citdog]

I think the argument of blaming President Obama is a joke and miss placed. Our kids are taking out massive loans to attend our schools and most alumni giving is at 5%. That isn't President's fault.

Grambling is state ran, not Federally ran. If there is someone to blame for the higher education funding cuts in Louisiana, than that is one Mr. Jindal.

obviously you didn't read the article which is the original post in this thread and allowed your love and devotion to the 'dear leader' to blind you to the FACTS of this situation. Please read the article. A loan program, which MANY HBCU's depend on, was modified by the Dept of Education and has lead to this problem. This President APPOINTS the head of the Dept of Ed and therefore is RESPONSIBLE for what comes out of it. Can't blame Bush for THIS one!

[DFW HOYA]

Excerpt:

"Out of every 100 graduates of a public historically Black college or university, it is estimated that five alumni contribute to their alma mater...HBCU alumni have failed at supporting our own institutions, and while many schools have made it a mission to bring those graduates back into the fold, the majority of those alumni will never be swayed to reconsider how time, geography and bitterness severed their school pride. It is smart to try and win back the hearts of jaded and disconnected graduates, but HBCUs need to think much bolder to ensure future success and prosperity."

http://hbcudigest.com/hbcu-alumni-are-a-lost-philanthropic-cause-time-to-focus-on-students/

[caribbeanhen]

money is tight everywhere, it all goes back to people living the dream but beyond there means..... also, a there is a shuckster mortgage broker putting people with no job in a half a million $$$ house cowering somewhere..

[WestCoastAggie]

funny how roland martin, a race hate hustler, and LFN both tried to place the blame at the feet of this guy

http://www.alliantgroup.com/tasks/sites/_ag/assets/Image/bobby-jindal.jpg


when this is where the blame really should go





http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/Young-Barack-Obama-Modeling.jpg

Jindal did seriously reduce funding for all the school systems in the state and was chastised by the LSU president because of it. Many politicians on both sides of the aisle on the Fed, State and Local level have really harmed public colleges and Universities -- President Obama and Gov. Jindal included.

[Hammerhead]

So you're saying Louisiana has a separate but (not) equal higher education system?



There is no easy answer for Grambling (or any of the other HBCU's)
African-Americans are increasingly likely to attend non-HBCU's. There is no reason to expect this to change.

"Classic" attendance is down. Top athletes of any race are generally going to BCS schools. The on-field product is down. The first I-AA championship was won by an HBCU, but few HBCU's currently compete at the top level of FCS.

Modifying their mission to target first-in-the-family-to attend-college students means they are accepting a lot of marginal students, and marginal students are much less likely to graduate. This is a major source of SC State's financial issues (of course, corruption also plays a role).

Grambling's issues are, IMHO, exacerbated by the fact that Louisiana created an almost complete parallel black higher education system. If you look at a Louisiana HBCU, there is almost always a "white" school within a stones throw, e.g., Southern-LSU, SUNO-UNO, GSU-LaTech. It is quite inefficient. The obvious "business solution" is to combine the schools, but that is politically untenable.

[BisonFan02]

money is tight everywhere, it all goes back to people living the dream but beyond there means..... also, a there is a shuckster mortgage broker putting people with no job in a half a million $$$ house cowering somewhere..

As someone who is in that industry, I will tell you that people buying homes well outside of their means still occurs on occasion, but it is a totally different world in the mortgage industry post housing bubble. The difference now is that people are bitching since the industry has "tightened up" when it comes to approving people for mortgages and how much they can purchase (going to get even worse come January). Now, lenders are dbags for NOT allowing everyone under the sun to get approved...preventing people from achieving "the American dream" of homeownership. No matter what, it is always the lender's fault. xrolleyesx

[roknows50]

obviously you didn't read the article which is the original post in this thread and allowed your love and devotion to the 'dear leader' to blind you to the FACTS of this situation. Please read the article. A loan program, which MANY HBCU's depend on, was modified by the Dept of Education and has lead to this problem. This President APPOINTS the head of the Dept of Ed and therefore is RESPONSIBLE for what comes out of it. Can't blame Bush for THIS one!

I read the article and I disagree wholeheartedly with those HBCU advocates who take that stand on the loan program. I make sure to tell them. Again, we are having students taking out massive loans, and most HBCU alumni giving rate is close to 5%.

We shouldn't rely on loans to cover all of our students expenses. It is a very poor strategy. We accept a lot of kids who need aid, and don't have the staff support to manage the work load. That is called poor enrollment management, not loan modifications.

Alum need to pony up and help reduce the cost. Plain and Simple.

[WestCoastAggie]

So you're saying Louisiana has a separate but (not) equal higher education system?

In regards to the Southern U. System, yes.

[Bisonoline]

As someone who is in that industry, I will tell you that people buying homes well outside of their means still occurs on occasion, but it is a totally different world in the mortgage industry post housing bubble. The difference now is that people are bitching since the industry has "tightened up" when it comes to approving people for mortgages and how much they can purchase (going to get even worse come January). Now, lenders are dbags for NOT allowing everyone under the sun to get approved...preventing people from achieving "the American dream" of homeownership. No matter what, it is always the lender's fault. xrolleyesx

Fact is not everyone should own a home. Which was born out by the admission of the housing sec in the Clinton administration in an article a couple of years ago. He admitted the errors of loose lending standards etc and the fact that some people just need to rent.

[ngineer]

obviously you didn't read the article which is the original post in this thread and allowed your love and devotion to the 'dear leader' to blind you to the FACTS of this situation. Please read the article. A loan program, which MANY HBCU's depend on, was modified by the Dept of Education and has lead to this problem. This President APPOINTS the head of the Dept of Ed and therefore is RESPONSIBLE for what comes out of it. Can't blame Bush for THIS one!

Well, if there are Title IX issues you sure can!!!xsmiley_wix

[gsu2583]

obviously you didn't read the article which is the original post in this thread and allowed your love and devotion to the 'dear leader' to blind you to the FACTS of this situation. Please read the article. A loan program, which MANY HBCU's depend on, was modified by the Dept of Education and has lead to this problem. This President APPOINTS the head of the Dept of Ed and therefore is RESPONSIBLE for what comes out of it. Can't blame Bush for THIS one!

I read the article. I also try not to get facts or opinions from anything with "blogspot" in the address.

So, the federal government requiring people to have, essentially, better credit before loaning them money for education is a BAD thing? So Obama is the most fiscally irresponsible president in history (according to some) but this loan program tightens it's strings and he's STILL the a**hole for hurting HBCUs? Can't win for losing huh? WARNING: HYPERBOLE! If Obama had the government make and sell tons of cheap ammunition for guns people (republicans) would still bitch that he was hurting the existing ammunition companies.

The problem is not about federal student loans, it is about state funding. I have been working at the Univeristy of Alabama for ten years now. Every year for the past ten years (and further back before I started working there) the university has gotten less and less money from the state. Every year for the past ten years tuition has gone up. When I started at UA we received over 50% of the operations budget from the state. I think we are down to about 35% now. Less state funding = tuition hikes. Tuition hikes = more students need loans. Where do students go to get loans? The federal government. So this loan program makes it harder for some students to get loans. So what? The default rate on student loans is 10% and climbing.

http://chronicle.com/article/Student-Loan-Default-Rates/142009/

Take it from someone who works in higher ed. Not every student "deserves" a college education. Lots of them have no business attending college anyway. And a bachelors degree is now completely oversold as the pathway to prosperity in this country.

I hit every red light on the way home from work yesterday. Thanks Obama.

[kdinva]

.....Alumni need to pony up and help reduce the cost. Plain and Simple.

xthumbsupx

[WileECoyote06]

Obama's administration is trying to restrict an out of control for-profit education industry. But because of their lobbyists, any policy formed must address all institutions. HBCUs, most of which have a mission to serve underrepresented and marginal student populations, are fighting to enroll the same type of students that these policies have been set in place to protect from abuse by those schools. HBCUs are also lobbying against the newest reforms which measure affordable tuition rates, graduation rates, along with other metrics. A move to stop Kaplan and Argosy, etc, and also to stop corporate behemoth Wal-Mart from entering higher education; has had an adverse affect on other institutions who have a more altruistic mission.

[813Jag]

Southern has had their share of issues, a couple years ago the school cut short the class week to save money. A couple departments have been shut down and a couple sports have been cut. But we have quite a few groups that help raise money or outright pay for items that all teams need. There's the Southern University Football Alumni Association that works really hard to get things the team needs. Grambling doesn't really have the support that a Jackson State or Southern has. To the outside eye some things are a surprise, but to those that have been around they know (maybe not to the extent that has been shown).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I read the article. I also try not to get facts or opinions from anything with "blogspot" in the address.

Your loss.

[walliver]

So you're saying Louisiana has a separate but (not) equal higher education system?

It has been a long term problem. I haven't lived in Louisiana since the early 90's, but even then there were significant issues. La. has multiple HBCU located extremely close to non-HBCU's.

With public schools (high schools, etc), it was fairly easy, at least on paper, to desegregate schools by merging schools, redrawing district lines, or busing. With HBCU's the problems are much more complex. Many HBCU alumni and supporters want to maintain the historically black tradition, which makes desegregation unfeasible. Attempts were in the early 90's made to move "prestigious" graduate programs in an attempt to equalize the systems.

The big issue has been how to get rid of a "separate but equal" system which would be unconstitutional in any context other than higher education. Many A-A's want to attend predominantly black colleges.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The problem is not about federal student loans, it is about state funding. I have been working at the University of Alabama for ten years now. Every year for the past ten years (and further back before I started working there) the university has gotten less and less money from the state. Every year for the past ten years tuition has gone up. When I started at UA we received over 50% of the operations budget from the state. I think we are down to about 35% now. Less state funding = tuition hikes. Tuition hikes = more students need loans. Where do students go to get loans? The federal government. So this loan program makes it harder for some students to get loans. So what? The default rate on student loans is 10% and climbing.

http://chronicle.com/article/Student-Loan-Default-Rates/142009/

Take it from someone who works in higher ed. Not every student "deserves" a college education. Lots of them have no business attending college anyway. And a bachelors degree is now completely oversold as the pathway to prosperity in this country.

I think your great explanation is accurate about how the system works, but it fails when you try to lay the blame at one particular institution. I don't disagree at all that the state houses play a big role, but so does the federal loan program, as does the management of the HBCU's themselves in terms of alumni donations, etc. The way I see it is, there's a lot of FAIL to go around.

I see the loan thing as others have said here: the federal loan standards were tightened up to try to rein in a "problem" in nontraditional colleges like University of Phoenix. But in doing so, HBCU's were slammed. It's the same with the whole APR system by the NCAA. It was designed to try to make a system where athletes are accountable towards progress towards graduation, but instead it has resulted in HBCU's getting (unfairly, IMO) punished while schools like Alabama buy more tutors for their athletes to almost force them to make progress towards a degree. The truth is the Alabamas of the world have been less affected by the APR than the Alabama States.

I think many of these types of policies and mistakes can be avoided if people would be just more mindful of HBCU's in their policy making. It doesn't take a lot of data, I'm sure, to figure out if a policy will slam HBCU's disproportionately. Arne Duncan should have seen this coming, and so should Bobby Jindal.

[gsu2583]

I think your great explanation is accurate about how the system works, but it fails when you try to lay the blame at one particular institution. I don't disagree at all that the state houses play a big role, but so does the federal loan program, as does the management of the HBCU's themselves in terms of alumni donations, etc. The way I see it is, there's a lot of FAIL to go around.

I see the loan thing as others have said here: the federal loan standards were tightened up to try to rein in a "problem" in nontraditional colleges like University of Phoenix. But in doing so, HBCU's were slammed. It's the same with the whole APR system by the NCAA. It was designed to try to make a system where athletes are accountable towards progress towards graduation, but instead it has resulted in HBCU's getting (unfairly, IMO) punished while schools like Alabama buy more tutors for their athletes to almost force them to make progress towards a degree. The truth is the Alabamas of the world have been less affected by the APR than the Alabama States.

I think many of these types of policies and mistakes can be avoided if people would be just more mindful of HBCU's in their policy making. It doesn't take a lot of data, I'm sure, to figure out if a policy will slam HBCU's disproportionately. Arne Duncan should have seen this coming, and so should Bobby Jindal.

I'm saying that the lion's share of the blame falls on the states. They are "state run" institutions. Alabama, for instance has THE LOWEST property tax in the nation. Hell, my property taxes were about $900 last year. The way to fix education funding, at least in Alabama (IMO) is to raise property taxes. But the state is so damn red that any mention of raising taxes is met with pitchforks and torches. The federal loan programs and individual institution administrations also shoulder part of the burden, but mainly I blame the states.

At Alabama, we are pretty fortunate. The system's endowment is almost $1 billion, and UAs share of that is more than half. Last year the central office 'absorbed' a $13 million shortfall from state funding cuts. ABSORBED.

Winning football games helps too...

[dcpsujag]

I think the argument of blaming President Obama is a joke and miss placed. Our kids are taking out massive loans to attend our schools and most alumni giving is at 5%. That isn't President's fault.

Grambling is state ran, not Federally ran. If there is someone to blame for the higher education funding cuts in Louisiana, than that is one Mr. Jindal.

I can honestly say Jindal had been an equal opportunity hater towards higher education in louisiana. Every school in the the state has been hurt by Jindal's cuts. LSU lost 220 professors since these cuts began. The problem in this situation is on Grambling and their alumni. They are not giving enough. In this same time period how was Southern, who by the way not only has 4 outher campuses to worry about able to keep their books in the black and build and upkeep facilities and increase enrollment during this same time period. All HBCU'S are not hurting as much as Grambling & Morris Brown.
If you walked on to Jackson st and Tennessee st campuses you wouldn't say to yourself that this school is having a hard time. There are more HBCU'S that are like that but those are some examples. Grambling's issue was created because their leadership FAILED them. When budget cuts hit Southern the leadership did not fail. Administration Students and alumni rallied. We knew what we had to do and we did it and now we are starting to see results.

[WileECoyote06]

It has been a long term problem. I haven't lived in Louisiana since the early 90's, but even then there were significant issues. La. has multiple HBCU located extremely close to non-HBCU's.

With public schools (high schools, etc), it was fairly easy, at least on paper, to desegregate schools by merging schools, redrawing district lines, or busing. With HBCU's the problems are much more complex. Many HBCU alumni and supporters want to maintain the historically black tradition, which makes desegregation unfeasible. Attempts were in the early 90's made to move "prestigious" graduate programs in an attempt to equalize the systems.

The big issue has been how to get rid of a "separate but equal" system which would be unconstitutional in any context other than higher education. Many A-A's want to attend predominantly black colleges.

How about merge the PWIs into the HBCU. In many cases, and particularly with regional universities, the HBCU is older than the PWI. Then make sure that the new merged institution is given the same amount of resources as the PWI, or greater. A good example of this, which has worked to some degree, is Tennessee State which absorbed the former UT-Nashville.

[cmaxwellgsu]

I think your great explanation is accurate about how the system works, but it fails when you try to lay the blame at one particular institution. I don't disagree at all that the state houses play a big role, but so does the federal loan program, as does the management of the HBCU's themselves in terms of alumni donations, etc. The way I see it is, there's a lot of FAIL to go around.

I see the loan thing as others have said here: the federal loan standards were tightened up to try to rein in a "problem" in nontraditional colleges like University of Phoenix. But in doing so, HBCU's were slammed. It's the same with the whole APR system by the NCAA. It was designed to try to make a system where athletes are accountable towards progress towards graduation, but instead it has resulted in HBCU's getting (unfairly, IMO) punished while schools like Alabama buy more tutors for their athletes to almost force them to make progress towards a degree. The truth is the Alabamas of the world have been less affected by the APR than the Alabama States.

I think many of these types of policies and mistakes can be avoided if people would be just more mindful of HBCU's in their policy making. It doesn't take a lot of data, I'm sure, to figure out if a policy will slam HBCU's disproportionately. Arne Duncan should have seen this coming, and so should Bobby Jindal.

Why should they get so much special treatment and consideration while you tell everyone else to sink or swim? Part of the problem is that some of the HBCU's have used their mission to avoid fixing mismanagement and waste. The entire higher education world is in turbulent waters currently.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why should they get so much special treatment and consideration while you tell everyone else to sink or swim? Part of the problem is that some of the HBCU's have used their mission to avoid fixing mismanagement and waste. The entire higher education world is in turbulent waters currently.

It's true that some, not all, HBCU's need to get their acts together when it comes to managing their institutions. At the same time, financial managing Grambling is a lot more challenging than financially managing LSU. Grambling comes with a special set of challenges and don't have a humongous pot of money that they can just throw at their problems.

When state funding is cut by half, LSU feels pain, but it's not financial exigency.

[ElCid]

I'm saying that the lion's share of the blame falls on the states. They are "state run" institutions. Alabama, for instance has THE LOWEST property tax in the nation. Hell, my property taxes were about $900 last year. The way to fix education funding, at least in Alabama (IMO) is to raise property taxes. But the state is so damn red that any mention of raising taxes is met with pitchforks and torches. The federal loan programs and individual institution administrations also shoulder part of the burden, but mainly I blame the states.

At Alabama, we are pretty fortunate. The system's endowment is almost $1 billion, and UAs share of that is more than half. Last year the central office 'absorbed' a $13 million shortfall from state funding cuts. ABSORBED.

Winning football games helps too...

Really? Not sure how it is done in Alabama, but in most states property taxes have nothing to do with higher education. Property taxes are used for local government operation including elementary and high school, but certainly not higher for education. And not to criticize too much, but maybe you can afford to pay more taxes. The person down the street may not be able to. Raising anyone's taxes for some snot nose kid to go to college, who will probably not finish and simply waste everyone's time and money, is not my idea of using taxes wisely. I guess if you are an employee of the education establishment it makes sense to ensure you have a bloated system, but not to most tax payers. And I certainly would not want my taxes to go up in order for every school who wants to, to have a football team, sorry. It either works or it doesn't, there does not need to be taxpayer subsidies. But if you feel that strongly about it, nothing prevents you from sending in some extra money with your income tax next year. I applaud the states for being fiscally responsible and not wasting tax payer money. Time to cut some fat out of the educational establishment anyway.

[cmaxwellgsu]

It's true that some, not all, HBCU's need to get their acts together when it comes to managing their institutions. At the same time, financial managing Grambling is a lot more challenging than financially managing LSU. Grambling comes with a special set of challenges and don't have a humongous pot of money that they can just throw at their problems.

When state funding is cut by half, LSU feels pain, but it's not financial exigency.

But again, the state has enough to worry anyway with the budget. To me, if you're going to prop up a struggling institution, you need to get rid of the people who got it there and put Dept. of Education folks in there to audit and modify the way things are done. Otherwise, you're essentially giving more money to someone that will not balance their checkbook. It's pretty damning that they fire a coach for what appears to be trying to fix the problems his players are facing. I realize the mission is noble, but there are JUCO's and other options rather having to borrow to spend all four years at the same school. Unfortunately in an era of loan changes and rising tuition, some schools are just going to die. I hope Grambling rises above their current struggles, but it shouldn't be on the backs of Louisiana tax payers.

[DFW HOYA]

Yet anothe complication in this matter: state funding. Grambling is under the University of Louisiana system, competing for funding with Louisiana Tech, McNeese, Nicholls, Northwestern State, SELA, LA-Lafayette, LA-Monroe, and UNO. The Southern U system is a different funding system altogether and covers the other public HBCU's in the state: Southern-Baton Rouge, Southern-New Orleans, and Southern-Shreveport. (And no, Grambling does not want to be funded under Southern.)

Add in LSU and its system which mirrors the SU campuses in Baton Rouge, New Orleans, and Shreveport, plus Alexandria and that's a lot of public funding for colleges in a state of 4.6 million, or about the population of Dallas-Ft. Worth.

The political will to close and/or merge colleges simply isn't there.

[TennBison]

If you want a solution to the problem of low finances get the alumni to open their pockets. Surly a great institute like Grambling has people who have gone there and done well in life. Then again, maybe Grambling isn't so great, and the alumni don't give a damn. Maybe they should be firing the fundraising department. And if the football team was any good then that would help with attendance and donating as well to get the athletic department out of a hole.

[813Jag]

If you want a solution to the problem of low finances get the alumni to open their pockets. Surly a great institute like Grambling has people who have gone there and done well in life. Then again, maybe Grambling isn't so great, and the alumni don't give a damn. Maybe they should be firing the fundraising department. And if the football team was any good then that would help with attendance and donating as well to get the athletic department out of a hole.
even when Grambling was winning their fanbase wasn't that big. The name Grambling and what those of us who know Grambling actually see are different.

[TennBison]

even when Grambling was winning their fanbase wasn't that big. The name Grambling and what those of us who know Grambling actually see are different.
That is the problem right there, alumni and locals have no dedication to the school. You can't tell me that the poor state of conditions at the school or disrepair can't be handled to some degree by some alumni or local fans that would be willing to offer some time or services. Like fixing the weight room floor or being able to clean the footballs teams equipment, for gods sake someone donate them some damn Tide and bleach. Start showing up for athletic events and buying merchandise, this is how other schools do things. Or maybe this, if your school can't survive, and pay bills and cover costs, shut down the bleeding parts and then say I told you so to those who complain. Either way, the problem is fixable and was preventable, just that the idiots in charge did nothing to take care of it. Really, who fires a coach because he took matters into his own hands and secured the ability to fix a hazard like the weight room floor. The powers to be at that school did not like the voice that Doug Williams had and shut him up by getting rid of him, they flexed their authority in this matter and now it is costing the school.

[McNeese72]

I'm not an expert on this but I've been told that one of the biggest problems in Louisiana is the state constitution. There are so many budget items protected in the constitution that the only big items that can be cut to balance the state budget is health care and higher education. It is not like Jindal hates health care and higher education but there is not much else he can cut. We need a new state constitution but with politics like it is in Louisiana that will probably never happen.

Doc

[citdog]

I'm not an expert on this but I've been told that one of the biggest problems in Louisiana is the state constitution. There are so many budget items protected in the constitution that the only big items that can be cut to balance the state budget is health care and higher education. It is not like Jindal hates health care and higher education but there is not much else he can cut. We need a new state constitution but with politics like it is in Louisiana that will probably never happen.

Doc

Did this Constitution replace the one that the carpetbaggers and other assorted yankee scum passed that allowed them to steal legally?

[dbackjon]

Did this Constitution replace the one that the carpetbaggers and other assorted yankee scum passed that allowed them to steal legally?


We should have taken more. I could've used a nice house in Charleston.

[dbackjon]

BTW - Grambling's endowment is a whopping $4.5 Million.

Southern isn't too much better at 9.6

(although both blow away Troy, who has less than 1/2 million.

[citdog]

We should have taken more. I could've used a nice house in Charleston.

http://fmarcial.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/carpetbagger.jpg

[CID1990]

SC has cut and cut and cut and cut funding to the point that The Citadel is only 8% funded by the state now, and yet the school still thrives. We may have to build yet another new barracks.

If a school can't exist on its own (as ALL colleges used to) then maybe it shouldn't.

[Go...gate]

SC has cut and cut and cut and cut funding to the point that The Citadel is only 8% funded by the state now, and yet the school still thrives. We may have to build yet another new barracks.

If a school can't exist on its own (as ALL colleges used to) then maybe it shouldn't.

It happened in New Jersey, when Upsala College went under some years ago.

[Go Green]

This is Division III football, but the Washignton Posts tries to pitch Gallaudet (college for the deaf) as the antithesis of Grambling.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/gallaudet-universitys-football-team-is-a-long-way-from-grambling-state/2013/10/24/ead7054c-3cde-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html

For whatever its worth, my understanding is that Gallaudet receives most of its funds from the federal government (alums just aren't rich) and has been feeling pain of funding cuts as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think Galludet's story is very much worth telling, but I also find it outrageously ill-advised to cheap shot Grambling like this.

He also gets one statistic completely wrong, and it's completely unforgivable in his story. Grambling spends just under $2 million on its program, the majority of that money going towards scholarships. The revenues of the entire athletic department are $7 million.


Coach Chuck Goldstein’s budget is $131,000 for the year — about $6 million shy of what Grambling State spends on football, counting full-ride scholarships.

It's also highly unlikely that they are counting need-based aid in this equation. I'd be willing to bet a duck dinner that the football players at Galludet are receiving more than $1 million - and that's being charitable - in need-based aid.

[catamount man]

If our leaders would quit writing blank checks for unconstitutional wars in other peoples lands and would focus on that money on education, health care reform-TRUE health care reform, and infrastructure, we'd never have to worry about this. Instead our leaders pick on other nations and spend too much time worrying about who is sleeping with who.

[major095]

How about merge the PWIs into the HBCU. In many cases, and particularly with regional universities, the HBCU is older than the PWI. Then make sure that the new merged institution is given the same amount of resources as the PWI, or greater. A good example of this, which has worked to some degree, is Tennessee State which absorbed the former UT-Nashville.

That is what should happen in many cases but will not. In alabama UA- Huntsville, and Auburn-Montgomery were both created so that the majority population wouldn't have to go to alabama a&m or alabama state. alabama state & A&M won their lawsuit just as tenn state did. Instead of merging those schools into the hbcu's like ut-nashville, they gave them their funding and programs that they would not allow to be duplicated at the near-by majority institution. Those things should have happened but they should have merged the schools as well. Alabama State would have over 13k students if they had merged with AUM, and clearly be the flagship university in Montgomery.

[caribbeanhen]

As someone who is in that industry, I will tell you that people buying homes well outside of their means still occurs on occasion, but it is a totally different world in the mortgage industry post housing bubble. The difference now is that people are bitching since the industry has "tightened up" when it comes to approving people for mortgages and how much they can purchase (going to get even worse come January). Now, lenders are dbags for NOT allowing everyone under the sun to get approved...preventing people from achieving "the American dream" of homeownership. No matter what, it is always the lender's fault. xrolleyesx

work, save, buy.... Americans are spoiled and a good dose of reality can't hurt

[DFW HOYA]

An overview of the situation from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/sports/ncaafootball/at-grambling-a-proud-football-program-at-risk.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

[Bisonoline]

An overview of the situation from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/sports/ncaafootball/at-grambling-a-proud-football-program-at-risk.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

From all that I have read The Pres is the problem besides funding..