C. Haley says SWAC is smart to keep "amongst themselves"

[kdinva]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/writers/infcshuddle/index.htm

[Mr. C]

Just wow. That is borderline to crossing a line with writing that you don't want to go, if you get my drift.

[BisonFan02]

He has a point though.....it will be interesting to see how the MEAC continues to progress and ultimately "fan the flames" so to speak on this topic. Isolating themselves has perpetuated the problems they have with the level of play and staying competitive.

[AppChicago]

Just to be clear, he didn't say "amongst themselves" in the article, right? He says SWAC schools aren't showing much progress against division peers and are making the right decision by not taking part in the playoffs.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Just to be clear, he didn't say "amongst themselves" in the article, right? He says SWAC schools aren't showing much progress against division peers and are making the right decision by not taking part in the playoffs.

Correct. Nothing untoward here.

[Hammerhead]

I wonder if they would be able to get better recruits if there was an outside chance at a playoff berth.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Just wow. That is borderline to crossing a line with writing that you don't want to go, if you get my drift.

The title of the thread is a bit more inflammatory than the actual article, if only due to language choice that carries subtle undertones.

The actual piece is spot on - the SWAC is in no way competitive with the rest of the FCS on the field, but they're doing well for themselves in terms of attendance and therefore money with their traditional rivalry games and classics. I'd love to see the SWAC take on more OOC opponents during the year and find a way to participate in the playoffs so that they could get the exposure to attract better recruits and start being more competitive, but they have a good thing for themselves going right now, so I can see why they'd be hesitant.

[MplsBison]

What about Jackson State.

Now, Mississippi really has no "metro" areas. It's as a poor and rural of a state as we have in this country. But, for what it's worth, Jackson is as close as you can find.

Could Jackson St. ever be something like a Louisville - appealing to the general metro crowd in a state dominated by SEC programs?

[URMite]

Just to be clear, he didn't say "amongst themselves" in the article, right? He says SWAC schools aren't showing much progress against division peers and are making the right decision by not taking part in the playoffs.

You mean he didn't say "you people"?

And when I first read the title I thought it was Charles Haley...

[BlueHenSinfonian]

What about Jackson State.

Now, Mississippi really has no "metro" areas. It's as a poor and rural of a state as we have in this country. But, for what it's worth, Jackson is as close as you can find.

Could Jackson St. ever be something like a Louisville - appealing to the general metro crowd in a state dominated by SEC programs?

It would be a tough road since the state already has two SEC teams. Look at Alabama, the Crimson Tide and Auburn dominate the football fandom, even though UAB is smack dab in the biggest city in the state.
Jackson State might be able to draw some attendance as an FBS program just due to the area, but I doubt it would be more than they get now playing their traditional rivals at the FCS level. The SWAC is sort of a bizarro-world where attendance and on-field performance (at least in the global sense, in-conference performance still seems to matter) don't really relate to each other.

[DSUrocks07]

What about Jackson State.

Now, Mississippi really has no "metro" areas. It's as a poor and rural of a state as we have in this country. But, for what it's worth, Jackson is as close as you can find.

Could Jackson St. ever be something like a Louisville - appealing to the general metro crowd in a state dominated by SEC programs?

JSU has had those aspirations before, the rumors are out there that Jackson State could partner with Alabama State to move to another FCS conference.

[JSUBison]

Had a long response typed out but lost it. Gist was, where is all this money at Craig? Tell me the payout to the SWAC schools for the SCG. He wouldn't be able to, because the SWAC don't want it getting out. Terribly hard to find this information unless you want to dig through old tax filings. It is nothing. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Please do, it's like trying to find the Coca Cola recipe. Not how much the sponsors, promoters, fat cats make, but the schools, because that is what this is supposed to be all about.

[R.A.]

Although the SWAC is our rival conference, i don't necessarily think its okay to publicly pick on them like this in an article like this-- unless Haley is going to be fair and discuss some of the other wows of the other FCS Conferences. So come out with an article of the OVC's playoff futility also. Come out with an article about the perceptively declining SoCon; don't just kick the SWAC when they're down.

Be equally critical.

[bonarae]

Although the SWAC is our rival conference, i don't necessarily think its okay to publicly pick on them like this in an article like this-- unless Haley is going to be fair and discuss some of the other wows of the other FCS Conferences.

OK, so what about the Ivy coaches and fans' continued struggle against the Presidents about various football-related issues in the conference (continued exclusion of the champion from the Road to Frisco despite the NCAA expanding the playoff field and the wavering/inconsistent SOS of the teams in recent years)? He should be updating us about that as well. (I think there was an article last season about this issue.)


The actual piece is spot on - the SWAC is in no way competitive with the rest of the FCS on the field, but they're doing well for themselves in terms of attendance and therefore money with their traditional rivalry games and classics. I'd love to see the SWAC take on more OOC opponents during the year and find a way to participate in the playoffs so that they could get the exposure to attract better recruits and start being more competitive, but they have a good thing for themselves going right now, so I can see why they'd be hesitant.

The Ivies are a mixed bag of both stagnation and promise - the former in attendance and SOS and the latter in academic traditions and preparation for life after CFB - be it the NFL or the real world, which the SWAC doesn't have the luxury of those. I'd like to see the SWAC diversifying their OOC schedule as well, as I perennially wish for the Ivies to do.


Just to be clear, he didn't say "amongst themselves" in the article, right? He says SWAC schools aren't showing much progress against division peers and are making the right decision by not taking part in the playoffs.

I can't say much about the Ivies' progress, except that they have better potential in going deep in the Road to Frisco than the SWAC champion if the Presidents allow the champion to participate. xsmhx


He has a point though.....it will be interesting to see how the MEAC continues to progress and ultimately "fan the flames" so to speak on this topic. Isolating themselves has perpetuated the problems they have with the level of play and staying competitive.

My question for you guys is: Is the Ivy League going in the SWAC's direction (of going isolated) unless the Presidents radically change their stance? xchinscratchx

[BlueHenSinfonian]

OK, so what about the Ivy coaches and fans' continued struggle against the Presidents about various football-related issues in the conference (continued exclusion of the champion from the Road to Frisco despite the NCAA expanding the playoff field and the wavering/inconsistent SOS of the teams in recent years)? He should be updating us about that as well. (I think there was an article last season about this issue.)



The Ivies are a mixed bag of both stagnation and promise - the former in attendance and SOS and the latter in academic traditions and preparation for life after CFB - be it the NFL or the real world, which the SWAC doesn't have the luxury of those. I'd like to see the SWAC diversifying their OOC schedule as well, as I perennially wish for the Ivies to do.



I can't say much about the Ivies' progress, except that they have better potential in going deep in the Road to Frisco than the SWAC champion if the Presidents allow the champion to participate. xsmhx



My question for you guys is: Is the Ivy League going in the SWAC's direction (of going isolated) unless the Presidents radically change their stance? xchinscratchx

Personally, I'd love to see the Ivies in the playoffs. Considering they allow postseason appearances in other sports, the football postseason ban seems capricious at best.

[clenz]

I've always thought the ivys were already in the same "direction"add the swac when it comes to isolation from the rest of the fcs.

To me, while the SWAC and Ivy are D1 FCS they are their own little subdivision within the division. FCS BNO, if you will

quando omni flunkus moritati

[Hood]

JSU has had those aspirations before, the rumors are out there that Jackson State could partner with Alabama State to move to another FCS conference.
I for one would welcome Jackson State and Alabama State as conference foes in the Southland.

[RabidRabbit]

xtwocentsxMy question for you guys is: Is the Ivy League going in the SWAC's direction (of going isolated) unless the Presidents radically change their stance? xchinscratchx

IMHO - These teams are already there. Play only 10 games. Virtually no OOC games against "upper tier" conferences (sorry NEC/Patriot aren't upper tier of FCS). Then there is not playing outside of the NE, or mid-Atlantic.

IVY, if want to make their case that they have players that can be NFL players NEED MORE exposure to outside the NE and the IVY.

Need more games with the CAA, SoCon and MoValley. Gets them out of bussing to games, but also makes their mark on the national stage.

Best to get into the playoffs!

[FormerPokeCenter]

Haley is ignoring much in the way of historical context...

The SWAC's separate and unequal scheduling was the result of exclusion. Nobody would play them, so they restricted their opponents to other HBCU's...The SWAC OOC schedule often includes Langston and other tiny colleges. To them, the games with Southern and Grambling are "money games" with Southern, Grambling, et al happy to oblige.

The SWAC teams travel well. I give Southern a lot of grief on the SWAC board when they manage to be brave enough to schedule an SLC squad, but..the fact of the matter is that for so long, HBCU's were relegated to the back of the bus in the college football world. So, all they did was find a way to market it, exploit it and build the SWAC up with athletes like Buck Buchanan and Walter Payton.

As the color barriers in PWCs were broken down, the talent level in the SWAC and other HBCU conferences fell somewhat. They've still got very talented athletes. What they don't have is the sort of coaching that exists outside those conferences...While the rest of the world is playing each other, learning form each other, stealing ideas and things that work, the SWAC is a league that's got a fair amount of nepotism. They promote from within and the coaching staffs are somewhat incestuous, like another conference that shares its' geographical footprint, the Southland...

The SWAC, and I would imagine most of the other HBCU schools and conferences have sort of developed a seige mentality...it's them against the rest of the world. Economically, they've found a formula that works and works well.

I've covered several HBCU games, including the Bayou Classic, and I gotta tell you, they were fun games to attend. But, that's looking at the total package...the pagentry, the halftime shows, the food...the games are almost secondary.

In some respects going to a good HBCU classic harkens back to what Football must've been like in the 40's and 50's...they kinda follow the classic Ivy model. Everybody'd dressed to the nines, the food's great, the bands are great and the fraternties and sororities are out in full force...It's a spectacle....

They know they travel well...so....they're conscious of being "used" not for the games but for their attendance...that's probably a fair criticism...

Personally, I think they could go FBS, skip the playoffs and still have a great thing going. Or...they could drop to Division II and do the same thing...

Necessity is the mother of invention. By necessity, they invented a way of doing things that doesn't need the approval or assistance of PWCs...

More power to them...

I've found most of the HBCU teams and fans to be passionate and loyal to their teams. They've been salt of the earth types...I'd love to play more games with them, but I truly understand what they're up against with their 9 game conference matchups and their desire to spread the wealth around to other HBCU's like Langston, etc.

Having said all that...I still don't like Southern very much! ;)

[813Jag]

Haley is ignoring much in the way of historical context...

The SWAC's separate and unequal scheduling was the result of exclusion. Nobody would play them, so they restricted their opponents to other HBCU's...The SWAC OOC schedule often includes Langston and other tiny colleges. To them, the games with Southern and Grambling are "money games" with Southern, Grambling, et al happy to oblige.

The SWAC teams travel well. I give Southern a lot of grief on the SWAC board when they manage to be brave enough to schedule an SLC squad, but..the fact of the matter is that for so long, HBCU's were relegated to the back of the bus in the college football world. So, all they did was find a way to market it, exploit it and build the SWAC up with athletes like Buck Buchanan and Walter Payton.

As the color barriers in PWCs were broken down, the talent level in the SWAC and other HBCU conferences fell somewhat. They've still got very talented athletes. What they don't have is the sort of coaching that exists outside those conferences...While the rest of the world is playing each other, learning form each other, stealing ideas and things that work, the SWAC is a league that's got a fair amount of nepotism. They promote from within and the coaching staffs are somewhat incestuous, like another conference that shares its' geographical footprint, the Southland...

The SWAC, and I would imagine most of the other HBCU schools and conferences have sort of developed a seige mentality...it's them against the rest of the world. Economically, they've found a formula that works and works well.

I've covered several HBCU games, including the Bayou Classic, and I gotta tell you, they were fun games to attend. But, that's looking at the total package...the pagentry, the halftime shows, the food...the games are almost secondary.

In some respects going to a good HBCU classic harkens back to what Football must've been like in the 40's and 50's...they kinda follow the classic Ivy model. Everybody'd dressed to the nines, the food's great, the bands are great and the fraternties and sororities are out in full force...It's a spectacle....

They know they travel well...so....they're conscious of being "used" not for the games but for their attendance...that's probably a fair criticism...

Personally, I think they could go FBS, skip the playoffs and still have a great thing going. Or...they could drop to Division II and do the same thing...

Necessity is the mother of invention. By necessity, they invented a way of doing things that doesn't need the approval or assistance of PWCs...

More power to them...

I've found most of the HBCU teams and fans to be passionate and loyal to their teams. They've been salt of the earth types...I'd love to play more games with them, but I truly understand what they're up against with their 9 game conference matchups and their desire to spread the wealth around to other HBCU's like Langston, etc.

Having said all that...I still don't like Southern very much! ;)
Exact reason why I didn't wear my Southern shirt to the McNeese game xlolx

but seriously, and I've said this many times the nine game mandate and the SCG has done more to damage the SWAC than any of the 17 playoff games that the league has participated in. There's always been a good team in our league (maybe not by national standards) but the league keeps going thru peaks and valleys. I thought the league profile would rise with Broadway at Grambling and Frazier at PV.

[813Jag]

JSU has had those aspirations before, the rumors are out there that Jackson State could partner with Alabama State to move to another FCS conference.
what rumors? I haven't heard anything from anyone associated with either school.

[813Jag]

He has a point though.....it will be interesting to see how the MEAC continues to progress and ultimately "fan the flames" so to speak on this topic. Isolating themselves has perpetuated the problems they have with the level of play and staying competitive.
Most SWAC people that I know have no concerns with the MEAC, they do their thing on the East and the SWAC does their thing.

[BisonFan02]

Most SWAC people that I know have no concerns with the MEAC, they do their thing on the East and the SWAC does their thing.

Agree with this. I was going towards "fan the flames" of the topic as a more national FCS topic versus specific or individual SWAC and MEAC crowds.

[813Jag]

It would be a tough road since the state already has two SEC teams. Look at Alabama, the Crimson Tide and Auburn dominate the football fandom, even though UAB is smack dab in the biggest city in the state.
Jackson State might be able to draw some attendance as an FBS program just due to the area, but I doubt it would be more than they get now playing their traditional rivals at the FCS level. The SWAC is sort of a bizarro-world where attendance and on-field performance (at least in the global sense, in-conference performance still seems to matter) don't really relate to each other.
I disagree with this point, if the team isn't winning or at least has a chance to win, people aren't coming to the game. The Bayou Classic has dropped attendance, primary reason people don't want to see bad teams play each other. Southern/Jackson game has lost attendance as well as Southern home attendance.

[813Jag]

Agree with this. I was going towards "fan the flames" of the topic as a more national FCS topic versus specific or individual SWAC and MEAC crowds.
nationally I agree, and of course there's banter/competition between fans on the messageboards.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Exact reason why I didn't wear my Southern shirt to the McNeese game xlolx


I didn't mean you, 813! You're different!! ;)

[813Jag]

I didn't mean you, 813! You're different!! ;)

xlolx