Villanova Realignment [non-]News

[Nova09]

In the past 2 weeks we didn't bid to host a football playoff game and now this:

http://www.villanova.com/genrel/112912aab.html

Shows you how important football is at Nova and how little our administration gets everything that is going on.

[Gringer1]

I know that he was going for the exact opposite, but that letter sounded like a full on declaration that the sky is falling.

[MplsBison]

Nova sure would look nice as the 14th football member, joining Navy in 2015.....

If only they had a feasible place to play....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"While the model of athletic conferences continues to change and unique conference paradigms emerge, there will always be a place for elite basketball.."

The Atlantic 10?

[DSUrocks07]

Nova considers itself a basketball school? Hmm...

[clenz]

Honestly, and I hate to say this, Nova is better off dropping football and joining Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, etc... and trying to find some basketball only conference with a mix of the A10


However,them doing that would scare the piss out of me that the MVC would lose Creighton and Wichita State (not that I like either school, or it's fans but they are very good for the conference)....which would put UNI in a world of hurt for olympic sports.

[FargoBison]

Not sure why Nova has to drop football in order to form a Catholic basketball conference.

[clenz]

Not sure why Nova has to drop football in order to form a Catholic basketball conference.
We all know the FCS won't be what we know for very long...they are better off not having to worry about it - unless they find a way for it to land in a major conference....which they don't seem too eager to do.

[Nova09]

Honestly, and I hate to say this, Nova is better off dropping football and joining Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, etc... and trying to find some basketball only conference with a mix of the A10


However,them doing that would scare the piss out of me that the MVC would lose Creighton and Wichita State (not that I like either school, or it's fans but they are very good for the conference)....which would put UNI in a world of hurt for olympic sports.

Sadly, based on that letter I'd have to agree. When people always asked me if I wanted Nova to move up to FBS, my answer was always only if they did it right, with the full support and commitment necessary. Now I see we don't even have support to keep doing what we're doing (yes, I've always known football was second class at Nova and I did all I could to lobby for the program, but I never knew it was this bad). After reading that letter, I'd be happy to create the mythical Catholic conference for the sake of basketball.

[clenz]

Sadly, based on that letter I'd have to agree. When people always asked me if I wanted Nova to move up to FBS, my answer was always only if they did it right, with the full support and commitment necessary. Now I see we don't even have support to keep doing what we're doing (yes, I've always known football was second class at Nova and I did all I could to lobby for the program, but I never knew it was this bad). After reading that letter, I'd be happy to create the mythical Catholic conference for the sake of basketball.
This is the first time I've ever said, or thought, that Nova is better off dropping football...and I really do hate saying that. I hate saying anyone should drop ANY sport. However, the fact is that the support from the university is clearly VERY VERY low, and apparently will never be at a level higher than it is now.

I'd say the same for Georgetown as well....unless Nova wants to go the Georgetown route in football...Non-scholly and act like it doesnt' exist and hide it in the lowest level the NCAA will let them.

[GannonFan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - eventually nova's going to drop football. It's just a matter of time. They were never going to be able to afford the gamble on FBS football and now that FBS football is gone as an option (and all the schools they wanted to get money from for them to take the gamble), at some point they aren't going to continue where they are. I don't see the Patriot as a place to go - the only thing worse than losing the money they do today on football would be to play football and risk years where they would be looking up at schools like Lehigh and Colgate. They're too proud for that. I think when Talley retires is when they pull the plug on the program - I think he's the glue holding it together.

At some point, the CYO Big East teams will merge with the A10 (assuming Temple in that mix as well) and they'll form the best basketball conference they can without football.

[clenz]

How much longer does Talley have? Isn't he 70ish?

[GannonFan]

How much longer does Talley have? Isn't he 70ish?


He turns 70 in April. Figure that Tubby Raymond coached until 75 years old, but he coached at the end pretty much to get to the 300 wins plateau (he got it in his last home game ever). But Tubby had a hot younger (relatively speaking, for a 75 year old) wife and a place in Florida - not sure if Talley has that waiting for him in retirement.

[Engineer86]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - eventually nova's going to drop football. It's just a matter of time. They were never going to be able to afford the gamble on FBS football and now that FBS football is gone as an option (and all the schools they wanted to get money from for them to take the gamble), at some point they aren't going to continue where they are. I don't see the Patriot as a place to go - the only thing worse than losing the money they do today on football would be to play football and risk years where they would be looking up at schools like Lehigh and Colgate. They're too proud for that. I think when Talley retires is when they pull the plug on the program - I think he's the glue holding it together.

At some point, the CYO Big East teams will merge with the A10 (assuming Temple in that mix as well) and they'll form the best basketball conference they can without football.

Or as in the likely case this year, looking up at Lehigh and Bucknell in basketball. There is an article by John Feinstein syndicated today basically saying the CYO school should join with St Joe's, Dayton and Xaxier to restart the "Real" Big East. That actually seems like a responsible solution for those school.

Ignoring the CAA arrogance, aghast at "looking up to Lehigh and Colgate" they would be a fit in the Patriot League as well

[Neighbor2]

Villanova is an EXCELLENT fit for the Patriot League, even in basketball. Won't happen until Talley is gone. If the school wants to continue in this economy, the Patriot League for all sports is where they need to be. But, there's still that problem of Philadelphia bravado to overcome.

[Pard4Life]

Is it possible that the Big East simply drop sponsorship of football? They way things are trending, the conference has no coherence and football is an obstacle for a functioning basketball league.

[DFW HOYA]

I'd say the same for Georgetown as well....unless Nova wants to go the Georgetown route in football...Non-scholly and act like it doesnt' exist and hide it in the lowest level the NCAA will let them.

Excuse me? Is your school hiding in the lowest level? No one's "hiding" anything, unless you count that ESPNU prime time broadcast as some sort of subterfuge.

Football is the major fall sport at Georgetown, and football and lacrosse are 2 and 2A in terms of overall support behind basketball. Just because you are unaware doesn't mean it is not so.

[MplsBison]

Is it possible that the Big East simply drop sponsorship of football? They way things are trending, the conference has no coherence and football is an obstacle for a functioning basketball league.

If that were true, why are they adding teams like crazy for the football side of things? I think football these days is what drives the TV contracts.

If the bball schools don't want that money and want to re-start a bball conference in the spirit of the old Big East, they're going to have to break off on their own.

[DFW HOYA]

Schools would be very, very foolish to do that. They would disappear into the mire of such one bid conferences as the MAAC and Atlantic East, no offense to those stuck there. The Big-4 conferences would like nothing better than to keep the big TV money in the cartel, exiling smaller schools to ESPN3.

[mainejeff]

Nova will eventually drop football and end up in a watered down ACC.........or will drop football after the Big East hoops schools split from the football schools and add 4 more members (likely Dayton, Xavier, Butler and Richmond).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Schools would be very, very foolish to do that. They would disappear into the mire of such one bid conferences as the MAAC and Atlantic East and the Sun Belt and the MAC, no offense to those stuck there. The Big-4 conferences would like nothing better than to keep the big TV money in the cartel, exiling smaller schools to ESPN3.

Added a few conferences you missed. The MAC actually has OK hoops, but they're still a 1-bid conference, and the Sun Belt has been in the PIG of the NCAA Tournament now two years running at least.

[Nova09]

Villanova is an EXCELLENT fit for the Patriot League, even in basketball. Won't happen until Talley is gone. If the school wants to continue in this economy, the Patriot League for all sports is where they need to be. But, there's still that problem of Philadelphia bravado to overcome.

I know me saying this is only going to confirm what you already think, but it's absurd to think the PL is an excellent fit for Villanova. Right now, it is only a good fit for lacrosse, although I could see it being a good fit for football in the near future, if we even care to field a team. To think it makes sense for our basketball program just because this year's young team lost to Columbia is shortsighted. I know 85 was a while ago, but we do have a national championship in the modern tournament. Yes HC won in 47 but they haven't even won a tourney game since 53. Only 2 schools have ever won a tourney game representing the PL. Lehigh had easily one of their biggest games of all time last year by winning a first round game; we've had bigger regular season games in the past 5 years. As for Olympic sports, I didn't look into the PL but I know we have had an Olympian compete in Summer Olympics every time going back 60-something years. People also don't realize we have more team national championships than any other Big East school. And no I don't mean the Catholic schools that are left I mean the big state universities that are all defecting. So how does the PL's mission align with the standard we have set athletically, other than both Villanova and the PL demanding academic success to go along with athletic participation?

[ccd494]

Added a few conferences you missed. The MAC actually has OK hoops, but they're still a 1-bid conference, and the Sun Belt has been in the PIG of the NCAA Tournament now two years running at least.

To be fair to the Sun Belt, that was because they had major conference tournament upsets the past few years.

[ITmonarch10]

Nova will eventually drop football and end up in a watered down ACC.........or will drop football after the Big East hoops schools split from the football schools and add 4 more members (likely Dayton, Xavier, Butler and Richmond).

ACC could become the next Basketball/Football Hybrid conference. The ACC may suck in football, but as a basketball conference its getting pretty dam serious with the addition of Pitt, Louisville, and Syracuse.

[bluehenbillk]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - eventually nova's going to drop football. It's just a matter of time. They were never going to be able to afford the gamble on FBS football and now that FBS football is gone as an option (and all the schools they wanted to get money from for them to take the gamble), at some point they aren't going to continue where they are. I don't see the Patriot as a place to go - the only thing worse than losing the money they do today on football would be to play football and risk years where they would be looking up at schools like Lehigh and Colgate. They're too proud for that. I think when Talley retires is when they pull the plug on the program - I think he's the glue holding it together.

At some point, the CYO Big East teams will merge with the A10 (assuming Temple in that mix as well) and they'll form the best basketball conference they can without football.

I'm right with GF on this. VU leaks major coin on 1-AA football, and really it's half their own fault. For those of you that have never been to a game at VU, it's one of the worst gameday atmospheres you'll ever see. If they allowed tailgating more than they do today that'd be a start, but the fact of the matter is very few paying customers goto their games.

The Patriot would've been an alternative for VU but since the PL is now going the scholarship route that move no longer would make sense. I give VU 10 years or less, which is sad but tell me how I'm wrong?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh had easily one of their biggest games of all time last year by winning a first round game; we've had bigger regular season games in the past 5 years.

Please stop talking crazy.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Patriot would've been an alternative for VU but since the PL is now going the scholarship route that move no longer would make sense. I give VU 10 years or less, which is sad but tell me how I'm wrong?

Please stop talking crazy. x2.

[Nova09]

Please stop talking crazy.

Serious question, not trying to be glib--which part do you disagree with? That it was one of Lehigh's biggest games in program history or that Nova has had bigger regular season games?

[UNH Fanboi]

What do you know, a Villanova thread with Delaware people saying they will drop football and Patriot League people saying they should join the Patriot League. We've had this exact same conversation for the past two years.

[MplsBison]

Added a few conferences you missed. The MAC actually has OK hoops, but they're still a 1-bid conference, and the Sun Belt has been in the PIG of the NCAA Tournament now two years running at least.

Ah, but to his point: since they still technically have I-A football - they're still entitled to a small piece of the golden goose's eggs.

Without I-A football, the conference is literally I-AAA and means nothing to anyone in the national scene outside of March Madness time.

[Nova09]

What do you know, a Villanova thread with Delaware people saying they will drop football and Patriot League people saying they should join the Patriot League. We've had this exact same conversation for the past two years.

LOL. 2 years is definitely an understatement, I've been seeing it since I discovered these boards, which was probably 07.

[Sader87]

Villanova (and Georgetown) are both now entering the world that Holy Cross has known for the past 30 years or so.

It's really not that bad fellas...you'll get used to it.

[VUCats02]

What do you know, a Villanova thread with Delaware people saying they will drop football and Patriot League people saying they should join the Patriot League. We've had this exact same conversation for the past two years.

Exactly. I'd be very happy to be sticking my nose out as a Delaware fan proclaiming Nova football will die in the next ten years, because, frankly, that's what I'm praying for since Nova gets a lot of Delaware's recruits, and Nova in the past 8 years has consistently fielded a better team.....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Serious question, not trying to be glib--which part do you disagree with? That it was one of Lehigh's biggest games in program history or that Nova has had bigger regular season games?

Villanova has unquestionably had bigger games that Lehigh's victory - Georgetown 1985 leaps to mind, and other NCAA tournament runs, of course. But there is no way in Gods Green Earth that Nova has had bigger regular-season games that exceed Lehigh upsetting Duke.

That the Lehigh win last year was the biggest win in program history is a given.

[MplsBison]

I'm right with GF on this. VU leaks major coin on 1-AA football, and really it's half their own fault. For those of you that have never been to a game at VU, it's one of the worst gameday atmospheres you'll ever see. If they allowed tailgating more than they do today that'd be a start, but the fact of the matter is very few paying customers goto their games.

The Patriot would've been an alternative for VU but since the PL is now going the scholarship route that move no longer would make sense. I give VU 10 years or less, which is sad but tell me how I'm wrong?

Far be it for me to really know any better -- but...I will say this: if what you say is true, why wouldn't that spell the end of I-AA football as we know it? Why wouldn't the other 95% of I-AA schools that spend 2 or more million dollars a year on football and don't bring in that much revenue also drop the sport?

[Nova09]

Villanova has unquestionably had bigger games that Lehigh's victory - Georgetown 1985 leaps to mind, and other NCAA tournament runs, of course. But there is no way in Gods Green Earth that Nova has had bigger regular-season games that exceed Lehigh upsetting Duke.

That the Lehigh win last year was the biggest win in program history is a given.

I'll cheat and go back to 05 even though I originally said 5 years and argue that Kansas and BC were both just as big, both UCONN games in 06 were bigger, and Pitt closing the Spectrum setting up the rematch in the Elite 8 as well as Pitt Gameday deserve mention in the same discussion.

[Nova09]

Villanova (and Georgetown) are both now entering the world that Holy Cross has known for the past 30 years or so.

It's really not that bad fellas...you'll get used to it.

Obviously dependent upon how they close out their careers, I don't think it's a stretch to say Jay Wright and JTIII might be the last elite coach at either school.

[VUCats02]

Villanova has unquestionably had bigger games that Lehigh's victory - Georgetown 1985 leaps to mind, and other NCAA tournament runs, of course. But there is no way in Gods Green Earth that Nova has had bigger regular-season games that exceed Lehigh upsetting Duke.

That the Lehigh win last year was the biggest win in program history is a given.

Villanova even has bigger wins against Duke than Lehigh does. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

[bluehenbillk]

Exactly. I'd be very happy to be sticking my nose out as a Delaware fan proclaiming Nova football will die in the next ten years, because, frankly, that's what I'm praying for since Nova gets a lot of Delaware's recruits, and Nova in the past 8 years has consistently fielded a better team.....

Sadly agree that VU has been more consistent than UD the past few years, no problem admitting that. UD & VU do go head to head on recruits but not as much as you'd think. UD looks south more nowadays & VU goes to OH & CA where UD doesn't.

[bluehenbillk]

Far be it for me to really know any better -- but...I will say this: if what you say is true, why wouldn't that spell the end of I-AA football as we know it? Why wouldn't the other 95% of I-AA schools that spend 2 or more million dollars a year on football and don't bring in that much revenue also drop the sport?

Good question. VU loses between $4-5M on football per year, look it up, even Nicastro (their AD) said it publicly during the BE flirtation. Also, VU gets VERY few people at their games. Of the attendees, students don't have to pay and there are a high number of comps from local schools that get distributed too. I'd venture their season tickets are 1,000-1,500. Maybe double that & that's what they get paid attendance per home game. Finally, keep in mind, they've already dropped FB once, (around 1980). With reduced men's hoops income for the school there will be more pressure on FB than ever.....

[HailSzczur]

Villanova has unquestionably had bigger games that Lehigh's victory - Georgetown 1985 leaps to mind, and other NCAA tournament runs, of course. But there is no way in Gods Green Earth that Nova has had bigger regular-season games that exceed Lehigh upsetting Duke.

That the Lehigh win last year was the biggest win in program history is a given.

I'm sorry, but that was a borderline moronic thing to say. Here are a few just in about 2 minutes of looking


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sUzZu9yko3E

Nova over #1 UCONN '06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=De7J2zQPUG4

Nova over #3 Syracuse '11 in front of the largest crowd ever at a college basketball game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XJQwnlcgewk[

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How many non-Big East people remember Villanova upsetting UConn?

How many non-Patriot League people remember Lehigh upsetting Duke?

[ccd494]

How many non-Big East people remember Villanova upsetting UConn?

How many non-Patriot League people remember Lehigh upsetting Duke?

It's an unfair question because the only reason people remember Lehigh over Duke is because Lehigh is usually so terrible. Additionally memorable doesn't equal big. Villanova beating a top 5 team in the country in January has more bearing on Villanova's ability to win a national title than Lehigh winning a round of 64 game does on Lehigh. If Villanova beats UConn in January and earns a 3 seed instead of a 4 seed, the Wildcats' odds of winning the national title increase from, say, 4% to 5% due to easier seeding. Lehigh winning as a 15 seed in the first round moves the needle on their odds of winning a national title from 0.00000000001% to 0.000000000002%.

If your definition of success is having "memorable" victories, it is in your favor to have a staunch record of poor results, and then one monumental upset, instead of a long term track record of filling an arena and winning basketball games.

Besides, if you gave Villanova a 15-seed in the tournament, they'd beat plenty of 2-seeds. They just will never be bad enough to warrant a 15-seed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Villanova beating a top 5 team in the country in January has more bearing on Villanova's ability to win a national title than Lehigh winning a round of 64 game does on Lehigh.

Did Villanova win a national championship during either of these years that I missed?


If your definition of success is having "memorable" victories...


Lehigh had easily one of their biggest games of all time last year by winning a first round game; we've had bigger regular season games in the past 5 years...

Wasn't the original discussion about "memorable victories", and not "success"? Nobody is disputing that Villanova has more overall success than Lehigh over the past X years - that's without question. Lehigh has only become somewhat nationally relevant in hoops only seven months ago.

[HailSzczur]

How many non-Big East people remember Villanova upsetting UConn?

How many non-Patriot League people remember Lehigh upsetting Duke?

You said big, not memorable. Doesn't get much bigger than #1. And also what ccd494 said, he had a good explanation.

But back to the topic at hand, it's very disappointing to see matchups like Nova vs Lville/Cuse/Pitt go. Those were exciting games , and no game against ECU or SMU will ever hold a candle to them.

[DFW HOYA]

But back to the topic at hand, it's very disappointing to see matchups like Nova vs Lville/Cuse/Pitt go. Those were exciting games , and no game against ECU or SMU will ever hold a candle to them.

As opposed to, say, DePaul. And to be clear, ECU is not part of the Big East in basketball, nor Boise or San Diego St.

I'm looking forward to Temple and Memphis. Houston is ready to step up big time and SMU has, well, money behind it so if USF can come out of nowhere, so can SMU.


How many non-Big East people remember Villanova upsetting UConn?

How many non-Patriot League people remember Lehigh upsetting Duke?

Most fans outside Duke or Lehigh have already forgotten. Who beat Ohio State last year? Or Carolina? Or Butler?

[MplsBison]

Good question. VU loses between $4-5M on football per year, look it up, even Nicastro (their AD) said it publicly during the BE flirtation. Also, VU gets VERY few people at their games. Of the attendees, students don't have to pay and there are a high number of comps from local schools that get distributed too. I'd venture their season tickets are 1,000-1,500. Maybe double that & that's what they get paid attendance per home game. Finally, keep in mind, they've already dropped FB once, (around 1980). With reduced men's hoops income for the school there will be more pressure on FB than ever.....

I can see Villanova athletic dept spending $3.5 million grants to football players. Another $2million for staff salaries and the rest of the operating costs.

Only the most cynical, anti-football analysis would have them losing $4-5million per year. I can't believe they take in less than $1million in revenue that the school would never receive otherwise if it were not from the football team. Then you have other revenue that can at least fractionally be contributed to the football team.

[DSUrocks07]

As opposed to, say, DePaul. And to be clear, ECU is not part of the Big East in basketball, nor Boise or San Diego St.

I'm looking forward to Temple and Memphis. Houston is ready to step up big time and SMU has, well, money behind it so if USF can come out of nowhere, so can SMU.



Most fans outside Duke or Lehigh have already forgotten. Who beat Ohio State last year? Or Carolina? Or Butler?

Maybe they can work on getting by Prairie View first before "stepping up big time".

PV 81, Houston 80 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323332504)

[ccd494]

I can't believe they take in less than $1million in revenue that the school would never receive otherwise if it were not from the football team. Then you have other revenue that can at least fractionally be contributed to the football team.

I can easily believe that. Low paid attendance + basketball driving merch sales + in-town guarantee game against Temple (i.e. lower payout than, say, @ Ohio State) = <$1M

[MplsBison]

So you say. In my opinion, if Villanova dropped football they'd settle out at no more than 2-3 million per year savings when it was all said and done 5-10 years after the fact. Same as any other I-AA full scholarship school.

Not that that's nothing, but then again the whole athletic department is probably a loss - why not just drop the whole thing? Etc. "Well because the bball team is a winner". Yeah but ok the football team is a winner too!

I don't see it. But like I said, I don't really know any better. I'm not up and personal with their situation over there.

[Catsfan2]

I agree that the FB program is living on borrowed time. I'm an alum who played freshman football there in the late 60s. I was given to understand that FB was brought back to stimulate alumni giving, not to satisfy any unmet demand from the student body or the local area. Several things happened in the past few years to endanger the program, first, the Big East debacle, and second the school administration's realization that the FCS national championship did virtually nothing to improve the university's profile or finances; the return on investment for scholarship FCS football at Nova is a financial loss.

I was told at one point that Andy Talley's resistance to considering the Patriot League was the certainty that the administration wanted to go non-scholly. When he retires, I'm fairly certain that those scholarships will go away, and so will the football program. I think they may try to keep non-scholly football when asking for donations from the alumni who care about football. Keep in mind that the population of alumni who played (or remember) the Division I days grows smaller every day.

[DFW HOYA]

I was told at one point that Andy Talley's resistance to considering the Patriot League was the certainty that the administration wanted to go non-scholly. When he retires, I'm fairly certain that those scholarships will go away, and so will the football program. I think they may try to keep non-scholly football when asking for donations from the alumni who care about football. Keep in mind that the population of alumni who played (or remember) the Division I days grows smaller every day.

By that time, the PL as a conference will be full scholarship.

[Mr. C]

Villanova made the huge mistake of killing football once. Why does anyone think the Cats would make that dumb decision again?

[DFW HOYA]

Villanova made the huge mistake of killing football once. Why does anyone think the Cats would make that dumb decision again?

Were it not for that short sighted decision, where would Villanova football be now?

Then again, had they not followed the short sighted decision 30 years earlier from Georgetown, where would Georgetown football be now?

[Mr. C]

Nova will eventually drop football and end up in a watered down ACC.........or will drop football after the Big East hoops schools split from the football schools and add 4 more members (likely Dayton, Xavier, Butler and Richmond).

I'd say it is more likely to see Maine drop football than Villanova to ever make that mistake again.

[Mr. C]

Were it not for that short sighted decision, where would Villanova football be now?

Then again, had they not followed the short sighted decision 30 years earlier from Georgetown, where would Georgetown football be now?

Likely in the Big East. Though I don't know if the Cats would have been as successful without Andy Talley at the controls and I don't know if Andy might have landed somewhere else, even though he is a Philly native.

[GannonFan]

Were it not for that short sighted decision, where would Villanova football be now?

Then again, had they not followed the short sighted decision 30 years earlier from Georgetown, where would Georgetown football be now?

They probably would've been in the Big East when it formed. When it first formed the Big East would've been fine with nova playing at Franklin Field. But it's hard to say they'd be in any different place now if they had. The Big East is crumbling, nova never would've gotten into the Linc (nova's not a city school, and hence couldn't pressure the Eagles into renting them the space in the Linc like the city did for Temple), and they would still be faced with the problem of where to play football today. And they would've lost even more money in the process than they have by going the I-AA/FCS route for the past 20 years.

Just a different twist on the same story - no stadium, no fanbase, and tons of red ink. And they probably wouldn't have had Talley be the coach for the past 20 years either - not a lot of FBS schools that can point to a coach with more than 20 years at the helm. Dropping the program looks more and more likely as time goes on.

[clenz]

Excuse me? Is your school hiding in the lowest level? No one's "hiding" anything, unless you count that ESPNU prime time broadcast as some sort of subterfuge.

Football is the major fall sport at Georgetown, and football and lacrosse are 2 and 2A in terms of overall support behind basketball. Just because you are unaware doesn't mean it is not so.
Yes, Georgetown is hiding football at the lowest level they can. They "want" football, but don't want to fully fund it. It's clear the support for Georgetown and Nova football isn't there.

If the full support for Georgetown is there why is this your football stadium?
http://c0056906.cdn2.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/692107.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5aDKqsf1RVE/SpSMgdAzrwI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/yTpXuof1UQU/s640/msf5.jpg

I mean, that's not even that nice of a D3 stadium.

You average 2,400 fans per home game (I realize that's all it seats, but damn).

There were 94 D2 that averaged more than Georgetown, with average capacity % of those at about 63
5 capacity. There were 58 D3 schools that averaged more than Georgetown, most of whom were under 100% capacity....average is probably about 65% capacity for those D3 stadiums.

Georgetown was 113 out of 121 for average home attendance in the FCS.

If that is your "major" fall sport, I almost feel bad for the university. UNI's volleyball team averages over 3k per home match, and has drawn close to 7k in the past for matches. 10 of UNI's 11 volleyball matches had more fans than the highest attended Georgetown football game, and the 11th was 200 people off.

The football budget at Georgetown is 1.6 million dollars - average of about 20 different schools I pulled at random in the FCS was over 3.3 million.




Maybe "hiding" isn't the best term to use, but Georgetown clearly isn't 100% sold on the idea of football. I don't know if I blame them.

I might be "unaware" but looking at everything I have available to me on the internet clearly states that Georgetown is going to keep football to keep the "football" portion of GU supports happy. However, any Big East school with an athletic budget over 25 million dollars that has football - but plays it as non-scholarship FCS is "hiding" it away and has it just to say they have it.

Sorry if I have a hard time believing the sport has wide support at the university....If that is your second most supported sport at GU I firmly believe that if they could drop every sport except basketball they would.

If Georgetown football got cut, would 90% of Georgetown fans even notice?

[ngineer]

By that time, the PL as a conference will be full scholarship.

So the Cats either join us or go to the Pioneer League...

[Seawolf97]

ACC could become the next Basketball/Football Hybrid conference. The ACC may suck in football, but as a basketball conference its getting pretty dam serious with the addition of Pitt, Louisville, and Syracuse.

Dont forget Notre Dame. The ACC will be a powerhouse basketball conference by 2014. Not they arent already.

[HailSzczur]

Seeing rumors floating around twitter that UVA and Ga Tech could be joining the Big 10 on Monday??? (the whole switching conferences when you already have a stable one baffles me). Could the ACC be looking to plug those holes? My brain says that opens the door for UConn and Cincy to complete the BE football mutiny, but deep down I'm really hoping some how we can get into the ACC. Never going to happen, but a guy can hope can't he?


The Big 10 conference has received applications for membership from UVA, UNC, and Georgia Tech while FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC State and Virginia Tech have contacted the SEC about potential membership. Despite public statements to the contrary the Big 12 conference has been in close contact with FSU, Clemson, Virginia Tech and Miami about joining the Big 12.

[ST_Lawson]

Seeing rumors floating around twitter that UVA and Ga Tech could be joining the Big 10 on Monday??? (the whole switching conferences when you already have a stable one baffles me). Could the ACC be looking to plug those holes? My brain says that opens the door for UConn and Cincy to complete the BE football mutiny, but deep down I'm really hoping some how we can get into the ACC. Never going to happen, but a guy can hope can't he?

Wait...what?!?!?

GA Tech and UVA to the Big 10/14/16 too?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5wWqxDx3wO0/TymxrrmuFaI/AAAAAAAAArw/JMFy6cAt8zw/s1600/Nathan-Fillion-reaction-gif.gif

[DFW HOYA]

Yes, Georgetown is hiding football at the lowest level they can. They "want" football, but don't want to fully fund it. It's clear the support for Georgetown and Nova football isn't there.

If the full support for Georgetown is there why is this your football stadium?


If you had read any of the numerous posts devoted to this subject over the years, you would already know that a combination of finances, community zoning, and old fashioned bureaucracy have kept that photo from looking like this:

http://www.hoyafootball.com/history/proposed_stadia.htm

Perhaps you would look at the gymnasium and ask "if the full support for Georgetown is there why is this your basketball facility", too.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/gu/galleries/McDonoughNewFloor/fullcourt-lg.jpg

[HailSzczur]

Wait...what?!?!?

GA Tech and UVA to the Big 10/14/16 too?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5wWqxDx3wO0/TymxrrmuFaI/AAAAAAAAArw/JMFy6cAt8zw/s1600/Nathan-Fillion-reaction-gif.gif

Doing some more research. Georgia Tech has denied the validity of the rumors. So has UNC. But I'm not really seeing as much from the UVA side of things. Guess we'll waiting and see til Monday. My gut says a lot of this is people having some fun starting rumors in a time where any conference move will sound believable.

This is like watching a Spanish soap opera. So many plot twists, back stabbings, deaths (possibly of conferences or football programs or dreams of I-A). And no one really knows what's going on because we don't speak the language

[HailSzczur]

If you had read any of the numerous posts devoted to this subject over the years, you would already know that a combination of finances, community zoning, and old fashioned bureaucracy have kept that photo from looking like this:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/msf_proposed_2c.gif

Wouldn't it be nice to have so much wide open space like they have in the MidWest xthumbsupx? Things would be so much easier for Nova and Gtown football. We're pretty much have to deal with the same problems as you guys for a stadium

[clenz]

If you had read any of the numerous posts devoted to this subject over the years, you would already know that a combination of finances, community zoning, and old fashioned bureaucracy have kept that photo from looking like this:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/msf_proposed_2c.jpg
I'm aware of those things....but you mean to tell me a school with the national noteriety of Georgetown, a school with a 25 million dollar athletic budget, a school with an endowment of 1.01 billion dollars as of January 27 2011(http://www.thehoya.com/news/endowment-surges-past-1-billion-mark-1.1920320#.ULmP4IPBHw0) which is probably close to 1.2 BILLION dollars now, can't find a way to build a stadium if they REALLY wanted too?


http://joyhog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/really-seth-amy.png

http://www.trippedmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/Really-Seth-and-Amy.jpg

[clenz]

Wouldn't it be nice to have so much wide open space like they have in the MidWest xthumbsupx? Things would be so much easier for Nova and Gtown football. We're pretty much have to deal with the same problems as you guys for a stadium
I have no doubt it's much harder to find an "ideal" space for a stadium in Philly or DC than pretty much any of the midwest.


Do you, however, really expect me to believe that Nova and Georgetown LITERALLY CAN'T, NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY TRY, build a decent stadium?

Nova has an endowment of just under 400 million...not quite what GU has, but damn....UNI has a mere 69 million dollar endowment but could find the money to build a nice stadium (I get the space issue) if the Big East/ACC/etc... (or Big 10, Big 12, MWC, MAC, CUSA) came calling but said we needed a new stadium.

[DFW HOYA]

Right now, no, they can't. It's the politics of living and working in Washington DC. How many other schools have to have facilities approved by two Congressionally-mandated fine arts committees before it even gets to the zoning board?

Case in point: Georgetown has been waiting for the go-ahead to build a boathouse for its rowing programs from the National Park Service. The request was filed in 1986.

[Laker]

Right now, no, they can't. It's the politics of living and working in Washington DC. How many other schools have to have facilities approved by two Congressionally-mandated fine arts committees before it even gets to the zoning board?

Case in point: Georgetown has been waiting for the go-ahead to build a boathouse for its rowing programs from the National Park Service. The request was filed in 1986.

Is this what was really meant by the statement, "You didn't build that."? xsmiley_wix

[Bossanova]

UD fans are praying that Nova drops football.. the sooner the bettter.. so that annual end of the year beatdown will stop and fade into a distant memory in their little chicken brains.

[DSUrocks07]

Right now, no, they can't. It's the politics of living and working in Washington DC. How many other schools have to have facilities approved by two Congressionally-mandated fine arts committees before it even gets to the zoning board?

Case in point: Georgetown has been waiting for the go-ahead to build a boathouse for its rowing programs from the National Park Service. The request was filed in 1986.

Remember how much crap the Nationals had to go through to get their ballpark? And its in a horrible location as well.

I would love to see G-town make an investment in their football program. The one pic of the design in 2004 with the Gothic style would blend in nicely with the rest of the campus. It doesn't need to be super flashy, 10-12,000 seats. Make it LOOK like it belongs there instead of having it look like they took a vacant parking lot, planted grass and threw up some bleachers.

[GannonFan]

UD fans are praying that Nova drops football.. the sooner the bettter.. so that annual end of the year beatdown will stop and fade into a distant memory in their little chicken brains.

So the fact that the most people on this thread predicting that nova will drop football are now UNI people and people from the midwest?? Pretend that this talk is all from UD people all you want and ignore the fact that the conference realignment talk from your own university's press release didn't mention football at all. Yup, nothing to see there! :)

[superman7515]

Nova has an endowment of just under 400 million...not quite what GU has, but damn....UNI has a mere 69 million dollar endowment but could find the money to build a nice stadium (I get the space issue) if the Big East/ACC/etc... (or Big 10, Big 12, MWC, MAC, CUSA) came calling but said we needed a new stadium.

You can't just write a check from endowment funds, the size is irrelevant as the vast majority is earmarked for something specific.

[VUCats02]

I have no doubt it's much harder to find an "ideal" space for a stadium in Philly or DC than pretty much any of the midwest.


Do you, however, really expect me to believe that Nova and Georgetown LITERALLY CAN'T, NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY TRY, build a decent stadium?

Nova has an endowment of just under 400 million...not quite what GU has, but damn....UNI has a mere 69 million dollar endowment but could find the money to build a nice stadium (I get the space issue) if the Big East/ACC/etc... (or Big 10, Big 12, MWC, MAC, CUSA) came calling but said we needed a new stadium.

Nova could have all the money in the world. Doesn't change the fact that there is nowhere to build a stadium.

[Go Green]

Nova could have all the money in the world. Doesn't change the fact that there is nowhere to build a stadium.

If Nova and Georgetown just switched locations, everything would work out. Nova could play their games at RFK stadium in DC, and Georgetown could use Villanova Stadium as a step-up from MSF. xnodx

[MplsBison]

Any chance that with most of the established, historical I-A teams now gone from Big East football and now the league will mostly be former C-USA teams -- would there be any resistance left to Nova playing Big East games at the soccer stadium?

[HailSzczur]

Any chance that with most of the established, historical I-A teams now gone from Big East football and now the league will mostly be former C-USA teams -- would there be any resistance left to Nova playing Big East games at the soccer stadium?

It's a thought. Rutgers and Pitt were very outspoken about it. It might depend on how desperate the rest of the conferences feels though

[DFW HOYA]

Any chance that with most of the established, historical I-A teams now gone from Big East football and now the league will mostly be former C-USA teams -- would there be any resistance left to Nova playing Big East games at the soccer stadium?

The MLS would have something to say as well, given that the Philadelphia Union season runs through the end of October, plus any post-season.

[walliver]

Doing some more research. Georgia Tech has denied the validity of the rumors. So has UNC. But I'm not really seeing as much from the UVA side of things. Guess we'll waiting and see til Monday. My gut says a lot of this is people having some fun starting rumors in a time where any conference move will sound believable.

This is like watching a Spanish soap opera. So many plot twists, back stabbings, deaths (possibly of conferences or football programs or dreams of I-A). And no one really knows what's going on because we don't speak the language

Clemson, GT, UNC, Miami, and UVA all just recently voted for the ACC's $50M buyout. Only Maryland and FSU voted against it. Things change rapidly, but FSU is the only team that I suspect is actively looking for a new home. (Although WFU should probably join the SoCon or CAA ;))

[ccd494]

Any chance that with most of the established, historical I-A teams now gone from Big East football and now the league will mostly be former C-USA teams -- would there be any resistance left to Nova playing Big East games at the soccer stadium?

I don't understand what the Union would have to gain by doing that.

[MplsBison]

I don't understand what the Union would have to gain by doing that.

Money? Notoriety for the stadium? Stadium expansion?

I have no idea, just taking guesses.

[MplsBison]

The MLS would have something to say as well, given that the Philadelphia Union season runs through the end of October, plus any post-season.

Obviously the soccer team would get first right to use the stadium. I assume all of this was looked at when Nova was pretty serious about this course of action.

[MplsBison]

It's a thought. Rutgers and Pitt were very outspoken about it. It might depend on how desperate the rest of the conferences feels though

Well frankly, other than UConn, Cincy and South Florida -- the rest of the football conference members should just be happy to be in the Big East. I couldn't really imagine them wanting to dive into telling a team that's been in the Big East since the 1980's what they can and can't do.

[HailSzczur]

Money? Notoriety for the stadium? Stadium expansion?

I have no idea, just taking guesses.

I know for one thing the Sons of Ben were not at all pleased to have a football game played on the field.

[GannonFan]

Would nova be able to afford renting the place, even a non-expanded stadium (at 18k capacity)? It's not like playing at PPL is a freebie or anything, there is some cost associated with playing there. Normally a school that rents a stadium could assume they could recoup some of that money with a large gate but even a UD/nova game barely got to 10-12k in the seats of actual attendance. And then you throw in the fact that in most years getting a Saturday date before November is difficult because of the MLS schedule and the fact that playoffs continue through much of October. Granted, the Union haven't been good enough that that's been an issue yet, but I assume they need to leave things open. nova played there in a late November when the Union were long done for the season. Without the extra money nova would be bringing to the table as they would've back when the Big East hadn't imploded yet, could nova even have enough to rent the place and get some dates before November?

[MplsBison]

I know for one thing the Sons of Ben were not at all pleased to have a football game played on the field.

Who? And why would they care?

[ccd494]

Who? And why would they care?

The Union supporters' group.

They care because football DESTROYS natural grass, and makes for an embarrassing soccer playing surface (see Houston's stadium after Texas Southern got done with it).

[HailSzczur]

Who? And why would they care?

The supporters group. They had a lot to do with getting a team to Philly, they were founded a few years before the team even came along. Thus the front office listens to them a lot of things

[HailSzczur]

Would nova be able to afford renting the place, even a non-expanded stadium (at 18k capacity)? It's not like playing at PPL is a freebie or anything, there is some cost associated with playing there. Normally a school that rents a stadium could assume they could recoup some of that money with a large gate but even a UD/nova game barely got to 10-12k in the seats of actual attendance. And then you throw in the fact that in most years getting a Saturday date before November is difficult because of the MLS schedule and the fact that playoffs continue through much of October. Granted, the Union haven't been good enough that that's been an issue yet, but I assume they need to leave things open. nova played there in a late November when the Union were long done for the season. Without the extra money nova would be bringing to the table as they would've back when the Big East hadn't imploded yet, could nova even have enough to rent the place and get some dates before November?

Let me start off with an MLS note, the Union did reach the playoffs in '11. And with the wacky set up for the MLS playoffs (10 of 19 teams make the playoffs) it is very possible for the Union to be playing into November during any given year.

As far as the whole renting out a stadium thing goes, I wonder what how that's going for us with the Wells Fargo Center. Sure back in the day it must have been a cash cow when we kept breaking the record for largest attendance at a college basketball game in PA. But now we aren't selling it out. The UConn game for example had 13k in a 19k arena. As the big boys like Syracuse (whose travels well), ND, Pitt, L'ville and the like stop coming to town, I wonder if we continue to make money on WFC games

[Pard4Life]

Let me start off with an MLS note, the Union did reach the playoffs in '11. And with the wacky set up for the MLS playoffs (10 of 19 teams make the playoffs) it is very possible for the Union to be playing into November during any given year.

As far as the whole renting out a stadium thing goes, I wonder what how that's going for us with the Wells Fargo Center. Sure back in the day it must have been a cash cow when we kept breaking the record for largest attendance at a college basketball game in PA. But now we aren't selling it out. The UConn game for example had 13k in a 19k arena. As the big boys like Syracuse (whose travels well), ND, Pitt, L'ville and the like stop coming to town, I wonder if we continue to make money on WFC games

Good point... the only draws in the Big East are... UConn and Georgetown. Maybe a big OOC game like Duke or Michigan State, but every other conference game could/should be played on campus. Big East basketball is over and Villanova should try and form it's own 'Catholic' conference.

[superman7515]

The Pavilion is not a fun place to watch a game. Very very long lines for limited restrooms and concessions.

[GannonFan]

Let me start off with an MLS note, the Union did reach the playoffs in '11. And with the wacky set up for the MLS playoffs (10 of 19 teams make the playoffs) it is very possible for the Union to be playing into November during any given year.

As far as the whole renting out a stadium thing goes, I wonder what how that's going for us with the Wells Fargo Center. Sure back in the day it must have been a cash cow when we kept breaking the record for largest attendance at a college basketball game in PA. But now we aren't selling it out. The UConn game for example had 13k in a 19k arena. As the big boys like Syracuse (whose travels well), ND, Pitt, L'ville and the like stop coming to town, I wonder if we continue to make money on WFC games

And that's a good point - nova basketball is only a huge draw when they are serious national title contenders. When they had Foye and Ray and Sumpter that team was a serious national title contender and the WFC filled up (and you can get 22k in the WFC - not 19k). However, like we saw last year and this year, when nova isn't a national title contender, you can walk up to the WFC and get great tickets. And it's not like this hasn't happened before. I remember during the Steve Lappas years, when although nova wasn't national title contenders they still made the tourney most of the time and challenged in the Big East, walking up and buying UConn tickets at the WFC (back when El Amin played for UConn).

So if nova basketball can't generate crowds, how would a football team that won't be anywhere near as nationally successful generate even better crowds? That and the lack of a stadium have always been, and always will be, a major reason why it won't work.

[GannonFan]

The Pavilion is not a fun place to watch a game. Very very long lines for limited restrooms and concessions.

Agreed. It was actually fine for watching high school district playoffs (remember seeing Kobe for the first time there playing Chester in the district finals in his junior year - Kobe lost that one) but even then there are better venues (Liacouras Center, Palestra, etc). I'm not sure what it is about nova venues and the lack of restrooms or concessions - it's like they plan on the bare minimum to show up.

[Go...gate]

Gotta say that it would be horrible if Villanova dropped FB again. The PL would be a good place to park their program.....

[MplsBison]

The Union supporters' group.

They care because football DESTROYS natural grass, and makes for an embarrassing soccer playing surface (see Houston's stadium after Texas Southern got done with it).

Artificial is obviously the answer to that problem. Not interested in some sissy FIFA crap about required to play on actual grass.

[MplsBison]

And that's a good point - nova basketball is only a huge draw when they are serious national title contenders. When they had Foye and Ray and Sumpter that team was a serious national title contender and the WFC filled up (and you can get 22k in the WFC - not 19k). However, like we saw last year and this year, when nova isn't a national title contender, you can walk up to the WFC and get great tickets. And it's not like this hasn't happened before. I remember during the Steve Lappas years, when although nova wasn't national title contenders they still made the tourney most of the time and challenged in the Big East, walking up and buying UConn tickets at the WFC (back when El Amin played for UConn).

So if nova basketball can't generate crowds, how would a football team that won't be anywhere near as nationally successful generate even better crowds? That and the lack of a stadium have always been, and always will be, a major reason why it won't work.

Just have to give 85 scholarships..

[MplsBison]

Gotta say that it would be horrible if Villanova dropped FB again. The PL would be a good place to park their program.....

Get rid of the AI, then.

[Go...gate]

Why would Villanova have any more trouble with an AI than the other football schools in the conference? VU is not easy to get into as it is.

[HailSzczur]

Why would Villanova have any more trouble with an AI than the other football schools in the conference? VU is not easy to get into as it is.

Really depends on the sport. Beyond basketball I do actually believe that most of the other athletes live up to the academic standard of the school for the most part. I had Calculus with Kevin Monongai and a few other football players last year, and Chris Polony was in my Chem lab. The AI would hurt us some, but it wouldn't kill us.

[HailSzczur]

Agreed. It was actually fine for watching high school district playoffs (remember seeing Kobe for the first time there playing Chester in the district finals in his junior year - Kobe lost that one) but even then there are better venues (Liacouras Center, Palestra, etc). I'm not sure what it is about nova venues and the lack of restrooms or concessions - it's like they plan on the bare minimum to show up.

Don't even get me started on the Pavilion. Where to begin? The track that is less than 1" off NCAA standards and therefor can't hold indoor meets. The fact that there is 1 bathroom for the entire downstairs and a men's and women's closet on either side upstairs is an absolute joke. The noise canceling design that makes the students sound like they're not even there sometimes. The awkward 'box seating' in the endzone that doesn't even face the court. The premium seating filled with bodies they found in the morgue. I got very excited when I saw sketches of a completely renovated or possibly rebuilt, but I know it will never happen

[MplsBison]

Why would Villanova have any more trouble with an AI than the other football schools in the conference? VU is not easy to get into as it is.

If they're going to spend money to be a full scholarship team, they're going to want to recruit whatever kids they feel are appropriate in terms of academic and athletic ability.

Otherwise, might as well cut the scholarships to save cost if you're not going to try to be competitive within the division.

[VUCats02]

The Pavilion is not a fun place to watch a game. Very very long lines for limited restrooms and concessions.

Not a single Nova fan likes watching Nova play in the ski lodge. You are not alone. It was a horrifically designed building.

[Go Green]

They care because football DESTROYS natural grass, and makes for an embarrassing soccer playing surface (see Houston's stadium after Texas Southern got done with it).

Full disclosure- I'm not a MLS fan.

But woudln't Field Turf solve this issue?

[ccd494]

Full disclosure- I'm not a MLS fan.

But woudln't Field Turf solve this issue?

No. Soccer shouldn't be played on turf. You can't play international games on turf, for example, per FIFA.

[DFW HOYA]

Don't even get me started on the Pavilion. Where to begin?

I've always wondered how much of the design was an accomodation to John DuPont, who only wanted to give money to wrestling and the (formerly) DuPont Pavilion was then sold as a basketball-wrestling facility.

[Go Green]

No. Soccer shouldn't be played on turf. You can't play international games on turf, for example, per FIFA.

I have no doubt you're correct re: FIFA.

And maybe soccer "shouldn't" be played on turf. But it appears that quite a few soccer venues in the country do just that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_soccer_stadiums_in_the_United_States

[MplsBison]

No. Soccer shouldn't be played on turf. You can't play international games on turf, for example, per FIFA.

Damn right soccer SHOULD be played on turf, just like football.

And those sissy ____ at FIFA known damn well too. Which is why some matches are allowed on turf.


And last but not least, the MLS sure as s__t ain't FIFA. They can do as they please.

[ccd494]

Sure, plenty of venues play on turf, but the players and coaches hate it. And you can't get international games without putting down temporary sod, that's just a fact. Going through that list:

-Cowboys Stadium put down temporary sod for the 2009 Gold Cup
-Legion Field had grass when it hosted the 1996 Olympics
-Gillette Stadium has to put down sod for internationals (like USA-Spain) and major club friendlies (New England-Manchester United)
-CenturyLink field and Seattle have the best fan support in the MLS, but keeps losing out on big national team matches because of the turf
-the Metrodome hasn't hosted any major soccer in years
-Everything below that, save Portland, is basically a college football stadium that occasionally hosts their school's soccer teams

And, despite Mpls's claims, take it from someone who played- it is a different game on turf. Almost a completely different sport.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Anyone who wants turf for MLS matches ought to be required by law to watch footage of Real Salt Lake's home games a few years ago on the University of Utah's painted concrete. They were an absolute farce.

[DFW HOYA]

Anyone who wants turf for MLS matches ought to be required by law to watch footage of Real Salt Lake's home games a few years ago on the University of Utah's painted concrete. They were an absolute farce.

You should have seen the Dallas Tornado play on the crown at Texas Stadium.

[MplsBison]

Sure, plenty of venues play on turf, but the players and coaches hate it. And you can't get international games without putting down temporary sod, that's just a fact. Going through that list:

-Cowboys Stadium put down temporary sod for the 2009 Gold Cup
-Legion Field had grass when it hosted the 1996 Olympics
-Gillette Stadium has to put down sod for internationals (like USA-Spain) and major club friendlies (New England-Manchester United)
-CenturyLink field and Seattle have the best fan support in the MLS, but keeps losing out on big national team matches because of the turf
-the Metrodome hasn't hosted any major soccer in years
-Everything below that, save Portland, is basically a college football stadium that occasionally hosts their school's soccer teams

And, despite Mpls's claims, take it from someone who played- it is a different game on turf. Almost a completely different sport.

We're not talking about playing on a field hockey turf. There is no difference in play between fieldturf and grass. Don't be dishonest.

I don't care about international. Complete non-sequitor. They care more about tradition for the sake of tradition than any other reason.

[MplsBison]

Anyone who wants turf for MLS matches ought to be required by law to watch footage of Real Salt Lake's home games a few years ago on the University of Utah's painted concrete. They were an absolute farce.

Purposeful non-sequitor in an attempt to distract the argument down a path it wasn't trying to go. There should be a single word for this type of lying.

You knew full well that no one was suggesting that soccer (or any sport) should ever again be played on astroturf garbage. Fieldturf is no different than grass.

[ccd494]

Purposeful non-sequitor in an attempt to distract the argument down a path it wasn't trying to go. There should be a single word for this type of lying.

You knew full well that no one was suggesting that soccer (or any sport) should ever again be played on astroturf garbage. Fieldturf is no different than grass.

I'm right, and not a liar, and you are a ****ing sack of ****.

[MplsBison]

I'm right, and not a liar, and you are a ****ing sack of ****.

Dude... "Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Dude... "Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation"

Reps to ccd494 for speaking for me.

[MplsBison]

Well, claiming that a soccer ball performs one iota different on fieldturf than it does on natural grass is a dishonest statement.

If you're talking about the old style turf - which LFN was "painted concrete" - yes ANYTHING is going to perform different on that stuff than grass. No one was saying differently. That's stuff is obsolete and has been for years.

[bonarae]

Back to the topic...

Villanova might be looking for a new conference for its other sports, after a meeting with the Big East commissioner yesterday.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8735330/big-east-direction-concerns-conference-catholic-schools-sources-say

[PAllen]

"At issue is whether the Big East basketball-only schools have the power to dissolve the league, and retain all the assets and brand name. A source with knowledge of the situation said that until July 1, the seven have the majority votes and the necessary three-fourths to have controlling power."

So does the Big E offer Villanova FBS football in an attempt to keep the name and NCAA tournament payouts?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At issue is whether the Big East basketball-only schools have the power to dissolve the league, and retain all the assets and brand name. A source with knowledge of the situation said that until July 1, the seven have the majority votes and the necessary three-fourths to have controlling power. There are only three remaining football members -- Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida.

But a number of sources couldn't confirm whether Temple, which is a football-only member this season, has a controlling vote. One Big East source said Temple has a vote on football issues but wasn't sure whether the Owls could use that vote for membership. If the Owls could, Temple likely would be the fourth vote preventing any dissolving of the league.

...

"The basketball schools are not thrilled with Tulane and what they will do to the league's RPI," said a league source from a football-playing member. "They were not all that excited with that addition."

The source added that "the basketball schools would have fallen off the ledge if we would have added East Carolina as a full member and what that would have done to the basketball league."

1. This finally explains why ECU isn't a full league member, and is unlikely to be as long as the hoops schools are still there. (Again, a horrible decision by ECU to do this.)

2. If Temple can vote, they will be polar opposites to Villanova on any football matters. It was unsaid in the article, but Nova has to still be livid that Temple is here at all.

3. If the hoops schools somehow manage to dissolve the league yet retain the name and championship... boy is UConn screwed.

[aceinthehole]

"At issue is whether the Big East basketball-only schools have the power to dissolve the league, and retain all the assets and brand name. A source with knowledge of the situation said that until July 1, the seven have the majority votes and the necessary three-fourths to have controlling power."

So does the Big E offer Villanova FBS football in an attempt to keep the name and NCAA tournament payouts?

Huh? 'Nova is part of the 7 with controlling interest right now, why would they want to be aon the "FBS side"? Villanova knows the FBS ship has sailed. If UConn and Cincy are on the outside looking in, and schools like Temple, Memphis and ECU have a leg up on 'Nova - their FBS football dreams are dead.

I think the 7 schools split because they want to get rid of formal ties to UCF, USF, Tulane, Memphis, Temple. I think there is a chance they Catholics offer membership to UConn, Cincy, and Memphis - but they will have to play football under another banner.

The reason why the BE catholics needed football because it was seen to increase their TV payouts for basketball. Not that TV revenue for the NBE is going to be less than they can get on their own as a hoops-only league theere is no reason to stay togeather.

[aceinthehole]

2. If Temple can vote, they will be polar opposites to Villanova on any football matters. It was unsaid in the article, but Nova has to still be livid that Temple is here at all.

This isn't clear yet and is currently an issue for them. If Temple can only vote on FB matters, then the Big East is likely to dissolve (and reform). But if Temple gets a full vote, they could likely block a league vote to dissolve.

Catholics (7): Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, 'Nova, G-town, Marquette, DePaul
Football (3): UConn, Cincy, USF

Temple ? Withouth Temple as a full voting member, the Catholics have the 2/3 needed to dissolve, but they can't get that vote at 7 to 4.

[HailSzczur]

Huh? 'Nova is part of the 7 with controlling interest right now, why would they want to be aon the "FBS side"? Villanova knows the FBS ship has sailed. If UConn and Cincy are on the outside looking in, and schools like Temple, Memphis and ECU have a leg up on 'Nova - their FBS football dreams are dead.

It might make sense from the conference's side of things, you remove us from the CYO group its 1 more pro football voting member which could ultimately save the conference from a split. But it's never going to happen, our administration would never pull the trigger on that. We will sit by and continue to twiddle our thumbs.

[Nova09]

anxiously awaiting dfw's response...

[Nova09]

BTW, our AD is a Joe's alum. Not sure if that means anything but could potentially influence the decision of which schools to target to add to the 7.

[Sandlapper Spike]

This isn't clear yet and is currently an issue for them. If Temple can only vote on FB matters, then the Big East is likely to dissolve (and reform). But if Temple gets a full vote, they could likely block a league vote to dissolve.

Catholics (7): Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, 'Nova, G-town, Marquette, DePaul
Football (3): UConn, Cincy, USF

Temple ? Withouth Temple as a full voting member, the Catholics have the 2/3 needed to dissolve, but they can't get that vote at 7 to 4.

My understanding is that Temple is a full member and has been since July, so there would not be enough votes to dissolve.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Temple became a full voting member on July 1, 2012, according to @jensenoffcampus.

[MplsBison]

Honestly, the "newbs" know they're just CUSA schools anyway. They were trying to join a marquee football conference that isn't there anymore.

UConn should get an invite to the new Big East...they were one of the original seven, they deserve it. That gives them 8 solid, bball members. And by new Big East, I mean that the current Big East ends, the Catholics retain the name and assets and form a new conference with the same name, etc. and don't invite anyone from the current Big East except UConn.


Everyone else, Temple included, should form a new CUSA II or do whatever they can or want to do.

No idea what UConn football does in the meantime - I guess try to lobby for inclusion in the new CUSA II or wherever Cincy goes.

[DFW HOYA]

anxiously awaiting dfw's response...

Georgetown and Villanova should tell Providence, Seton Hall, and any of the other whiners to go join the MAAC and leave the teams that want to compete nationally to do so. Would a recruit rather play in Verizon Center against Memphis, or in an aging 2,000 seat McDonough Gymnasium against Providence?

Yes, this is what awaits Georgetown if it can't pay the bills downtown. I'm sure some of you had nicer high school gyms.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/basketball/ncaa/uploaded_images/gtown2-721942.jpg

If Georgetown got sucked down the drain that these parochial schools are proposing, it would bankrupt the program. And what would people call a school like Villanova in a CYO League? Another St. Joe's.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If Georgetown got sucked down the drain that these parochial schools are proposing, it would bankrupt the program. And what would people call a school like Villanova in a CYO League? Another St. Joe's.

Much brighter than Stabler, though I think Stabler might be bigger. But it's also worth mentioning (if you believe the reports) that it's Villanova leading the charge on this defection talk. And their latest missives make it sound like they want to be another St. Joe's.

[Nova09]

Georgetown and Villanova should tell Providence, Seton Hall, and any of the other whiners to go join the MAAC and leave the teams that want to compete nationally to do so. Would a recruit rather play in Verizon Center against Memphis, or in an aging 2,000 seat McDonough Gymnasium against Providence?

Yes, this is what awaits Georgetown if it can't pay the bills downtown. I'm sure some of you had nicer high school gyms.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/basketball/ncaa/uploaded_images/gtown2-721942.jpg

If Georgetown got sucked down the drain that these parochial schools are proposing, it would bankrupt the program. And what would people call a school like Villanova in a CYO League? Another St. Joe's.

...and he delivers! Unfortunately between the AD letter that started this thread and today's ESPN report, it seems Villanova believes we can compete nationally without, you know, building our department and brand. Hopefully we can all get sader to lead our support group.

[ccd494]

Georgetown and Villanova should tell Providence, Seton Hall, and any of the other whiners to go join the MAAC and leave the teams that want to compete nationally to do so. Would a recruit rather play in Verizon Center against Memphis, or in an aging 2,000 seat McDonough Gymnasium against Providence?

Yes, this is what awaits Georgetown if it can't pay the bills downtown. I'm sure some of you had nicer high school gyms.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/basketball/ncaa/uploaded_images/gtown2-721942.jpg

If Georgetown got sucked down the drain that these parochial schools are proposing, it would bankrupt the program. And what would people call a school like Villanova in a CYO League? Another St. Joe's.

Sure, lets pick on PC and SHU here. Other than Memphis, what schools in this recent round are going to sell out the Verizon Center? Tulane? Houston? South Florida? Central Florida? Southern Methodist? C'mon. The non-CYO schools that bring anything to the table basketball wise are UConn (desperately trying to leave), Cincinnati (same) and Memphis.

It's not Providence's fault that Georgetown got left behind when its friends joined the cool kids table. It's not Providence's fault that the replacements are mediocre at best (outside Memphis). Providence also has a large arena to fill. So does Seton Hall. So does Marquette. So does DePaul. So does St. John's.

Would the CYO league be on the level of the old Big East? Of course not. But Georgetown is not going to fill the Verizon Center for a midweek game against Tulane or Central Florida and you know it. Basically, you are losing a maximum of three marquee home games (Memphis, UConn, Cincy) per year. Maybe only one if UConn's ACC dreams come true and the Big XII grabs Cincinnati.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UConn is completely screwed in the scenario of a split. BC will continue to block UConn's inclusion in the ACC (why do people have such a problem understanding this?) and it's likely they'll be left holding the bag for C-USA lite. Cincy at least has some options - not great ones, but at least some options. Hard to imagine the Big XII will come knocking.

[Go Green]

BC will continue to block UConn's inclusion in the ACC (why do people have such a problem understanding this?).


I think people understand why BC wants to block UConn. The problem is that people don't understand why the rest of the ACC cares what BC thinks. It's not like BC has tons of leverage here...

Would the ACC care if Wake Forest wanted to block someone?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think people understand why BC wants to block UConn. The problem is that people don't understand why the rest of the ACC cares what BC thinks. It's not like BC has tons of leverage here...

Would the ACC care if Wake Forest wanted to block someone?

They have a lot more than people think, because it's not just BC.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown's three highest attended game average versus opponents over the past 7 years:

1. Syracuse
2. West Virginia
3. Pitt

Georgetown's lowest attended game average versus opponents over the past 7 years:

1. St. John's
2. Seton Hall
3. DePaul

(Attendance vs. South Florida actually does better than these three.)

Do the math. But if you're a winning team and your opponents are as well (Houston used to be a Top 10 team), tickets will sell. Playing games on campus would be a big zero on recruiting. (As some football games are.)

[Nova09]

quick response from A-10

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source

[ccd494]

Georgetown's three highest attended game average versus opponents over the past 7 years:

1. Syracuse
2. West Virginia
3. Pitt

Georgetown's lowest attended game average versus opponents over the past 7 years:

1. St. John's
2. Seton Hall
3. DePaul

(Attendance vs. South Florida actually does better than these three.)

Do the math. But if you're a winning team and your opponents are as well (Houston used to be a Top 10 team), tickets will sell. Playing games on campus would be a big zero on recruiting. (As some football games are.)

The top 3 are gone. And I am guessing USF is closer to the bottom 3. And the last time Houston finished in the AP top 10 for a season, guess who finished one spot ahead of them? Hint: it rhymes with DePaul.

[DFW HOYA]

Houston has new facilities coming on board and a major commitment to move forward.

Depaul has that arena in Rosemont.

[MplsBison]

Georgetown's three highest attended game average versus opponents over the past 7 years:

1. Syracuse
2. West Virginia
3. Pitt

Georgetown's lowest attended game average versus opponents over the past 7 years:

1. St. John's
2. Seton Hall
3. DePaul

(Attendance vs. South Florida actually does better than these three.)

Do the math. But if you're a winning team and your opponents are as well (Houston used to be a Top 10 team), tickets will sell. Playing games on campus would be a big zero on recruiting. (As some football games are.)

So what? Those three are gone no matter what you do.

Your answer is then: "guys, Cuse, WV and Pitt are leaving....we gotta do whatever it takes to stay with Cincinati, Memphis and Houston" ???

Sorry buddy...that doesn't sell. It smells. Rotten.


The reason, the only reason, that Cuse, WV and Pitt sell out for Gtown home games is because those are known, top, eastern teams. Every one of you bball fan alumni know those three programs and know them well. No one in DC knows anything about Cincy, Memphis or Houston. It won't work.


Your best bet - believe me here - is to try to align yourself with the other known programs from the old Big East, fight like heck to get UConn to sign up with you for non-football - and try to pull a few of the top A10 teams over.

[MplsBison]

Houston has new facilities coming on board and a major commitment to move forward.

Depaul has that arena in Rosemont.

Gtown fans don't know and don't care about either of those facts.

[Go Green]

They have a lot more than people think, because it's not just BC.


I can only assume that the others are Syracuse and Pitt. And even for them, I'm not altogether sure what the basis of the opposition would be.

Can't imagine why any other ACC would object to UConn's admission (even Louisville).

Unless something really personal is going on with some school and UConn's administration.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I can only assume that the others are Syracuse and Pitt. And even for them, I'm not altogether sure what the basis of the opposition would be.

Can't imagine why any other ACC would object to UConn's admission (even Louisville).

Unless something really personal is going on with some school and UConn's administration.


BC obviously has reasons for not wanting UConn in the ACC. UConn also doesn't have the support of the ACC "football schools" (FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech) along with BC, and apparently Syracuse favored Louisville over UConn to replace Maryland as well.

[DFW HOYA]

Can't imagine why any other ACC would object to UConn's admission (even Louisville). Unless something really personal is going on with some school and UConn's administration.

The issues surrounding Jim Calhoun and the men's basektball program were, shall we say, not well received in Greensboro. For a little while longer, the Tobacco Road schools hold an added level of influence in the conference.

[Go...gate]

Houston has new facilities coming on board and a major commitment to move forward.

Depaul has that arena in Rosemont.

And Houston has a strong history in basketball, much stronger than many of the present Big East schools.

[Go Green]

And Houston has a strong history in basketball, much stronger than many of the present Big East schools.

Same could be said for Holy Cross.

[DFW HOYA]

Same could be said for Holy Cross.

Since Cousy and Heinsohn left, not so much:
1977 – First Round Exit
1980 – First Round Exit
1993 – First Round Exit
2001 – First Round Exit
2002 – First Round Exit
2003 – First Round Exit
2007 – First Round Exit

Of course, is was Rev. John Brooks that thumbed his nose at Big East basketball, saying that HC was not in the "entertainment" business.

[Go...gate]

Same could be said for Holy Cross.

Houston's may be stronger, though they do not have an NCAA or NIT title (Holy Cross has both). Three NCAA Final Fours, one NCAA Final, numerous NCAA tournament appearances.

[Go...gate]

Since Cousy and Heinsohn left, not so much:
1977 – First Round Exit
1980 – First Round Exit
1993 – First Round Exit
2001 – First Round Exit
2002 – First Round Exit
2003 – First Round Exit
2007 – First Round Exit

Of course, is was Rev. John Brooks that thumbed his nose at Big East basketball, saying that HC was not in the "entertainment" business.

Let's not forget that far fewer teams went to the NCAA and NIT until the mid-late 1980's. Before that time, GETTING IN either tournament was a highly prestigous honor.

[Bossanova]

Nova09:


Actually Nicastro is a Bloomsburg grad. He was the ticket manager for St. Josephs(PA)
though.

Everybody knows he would be in so far over his head as an Athletic Director for any FBS school.

[DFW HOYA]

Let's not forget that far fewer teams went to the NCAA and NIT until the mid-late 1980's. Before that time, GETTING IN either tournament was a highly prestigous honor.

In some respects, yes, but over that same period (1956-2010), UH went to the NCAA as a conference champion in 1956 (only ten years after they started playing basketball), 1961, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1972, and 1973; while in the multiple bid era won conference titles in 1978, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1992, and 2010,and got at-large bids in 1987 and 1990.

In many ways, Holy Cross' basketball history atrophied after 1980 by joining the MAAC and later the PL. They are not considered alongside the great Eastern programs anymore because Brooks took them out of the game.

[Sader87]

And lest we forget, GTown basketball sucked until they lowered their academic standards (for basketball players) when John Thompson Jr became their coach.

[Go...gate]

And lest we forget, GTown basketball sucked until they lowered their academic standards (for basketball players) when John Thompson Jr became their coach.

I think this must also be considered.

[Sader87]

I think this must also be considered.

Ya think? Michael Graham (amoungst many, many others) anyone???

[dgtw]

The deal with BC getting to block UConn may be similiar to the SEC's "gentlemen's agreement", which allows Florida to keep out Florida State, South Carolina blocking Clemson, etc.

[DFW HOYA]

And lest we forget, GTown basketball sucked until they lowered their academic standards (for basketball players) when John Thompson Jr became their coach.

Lest you forget, the same standards were in place for Thompson's predecessor, BC's Jack Magee.

[Nova09]

Nova09:


Actually Nicastro is a Bloomsburg grad. He was the ticket manager for St. Josephs(PA)
though.

Everybody knows he would be in so far over his head as an Athletic Director for any FBS school.

Interesting. I know Vince personally (obviously not well, but I've had multiple conversations with him and he knows me by name), and he's always acted like he's a joe's guy who fully embraced nova, not that he happened to work at joe's at one point before working at nova. Clearly I've never gone through the trouble of reading his bio. Either way, definitely in over his head right now, though to be entirely fair I think the University admin right now would be very difficult for any AD to work with. And I don't mean that to come off like I think the admin is against athletics, cuz I do know the support they have given, but I don't think they were prepared for rapid changes in the college athletics landscape and the quick decisions that would be necessary in that environment.

[bluehenbillk]

I find it kind of funny that schools like Seton Hall, Providence or DePaul can say they're not thrilled with adding a Tulane or East Carolina. If those three schools were applying to the Big East today for membership why would they be any better? None of those three schools have been relevant for a while. Heck you could even throw St. John's in there too...

[DFW HOYA]

Actuallty, I think this grief about Tulane is a red herring. You need 75% of the school presidents of active schools (11) to vote in a member so it's obvious Tulane had at least eight votes. And if the choice for these presidents was between Tulane and East Carolina for all sports, Tulane won.

[TypicalTribe]

Let's be honest, the "new" Big East is not a conference, it's an affiliation of schools that have little or nothing in common, either geographically or athletically. To me, the idea of the smaller schools, Catholic or not, forming their own conference where football does not drive decisions, would be a good thing for those schools. Let's be honest, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns and DePaul have been pretty much non-competitive in the Big East in recent years but at least their were some traditional rivalries that helped at the gate. The new conference will no longer have those rivalries but will also have much higher travel costs.

I think it would be a breath of fresh air for a group of schools to form a conference that embraces a common mission and one with geographic consistency, i.e. what conference were formed for in the first place.

[Sader87]

Let's be honest, the "new" Big East is not a conference, it's an affiliation of schools that have little or nothing in common, either geographically or athletically. To me, the idea of the smaller schools, Catholic or not, forming their own conference where football does not drive decisions, would be a good thing for those schools. Let's be honest, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns and DePaul have been pretty much non-competitive in the Big East in recent years but at least their were some traditional rivalries that helped at the gate. The new conference will no longer have those rivalries but will also have much higher travel costs.

I think it would be a breath of fresh air for a group of schools to form a conference that embraces a common mission and one with geographic consistency, i.e. what conference were formed for in the first place.


Patriot League II?

[MplsBison]

A10 has 14 members. The original Big East non-football core members plus Marquette and DePaul are 8 members. Together that's 22.

Combine forces and divide based on geography. A 22 team conference is worthless as the NCAA is only going to give one team an auto bid to tournaments.

New Big East:

Rhode Island
Providence
UConn
UMass
Seton Hall
St. John's
Fordham
St. Bonnie
Villanova
St Joes
Georgetown

A10:
George Washington
VCU
Richmond
Lasalle
Duquesne
Dayton
Xavier
Butler
Depaul
Marquette
St Louis

[MplsBison]

And don't give some crap about TV contracts.

There is no money in regular season, non-football college athletics. There just isn't. All the stuff about TV contracts and media markets, blah blah blah - that's all for football.


If you have a non-football conference, none of that applies.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A10 has 14 members. The original Big East non-football core members plus Marquette and DePaul are 8 members. Together that's 22.

Combine forces and divide based on geography. A 22 team conference is worthless as the NCAA is only going to give one team an auto bid to tournaments.

New Big East:

Rhode Island
Providence
UConn
UMass
Seton Hall
St. John's
Fordham
St. Bonnie
Villanova
St Joes
Georgetown

A10:
George Washington
VCU
Richmond
Lasalle
Duquesne
Dayton
Xavier
Butler
Depaul
Marquette
St Louis

It's a good thing Mpls doesn't make the conferences.

Please try to post this "St. Bonnies for Marquette" conference alignment on the Villanova Hoops board. I'm begging you.

[HailSzczur]

Interesting article today on VUHoops about a recent alum who used a $10 to get some info out of the University

http://www.vuhoops.com/2012/12/12/3757320/taking-matters-into-his-own-hands-karambelas-gets-results


Karambelas is a recent graduate, who didn't have a huge budget to set aside for donation, but instead of withholding the money he could spare or donating it to a general fund, he earmarked his donation of just ten dollars, "To be spent on the Villanova Football Program when they are a part of the FBS division only."

A day later, another Villanova Athletics staff member (whose identity was disclosed to VUhoops) reached out to Karambelas to talk. He had seen the donation stipulation being dealt with on the administrative side and was intrigued by it. While that staff member is regularly involved in relations with major donors to the program, the pursuit of the $10 variety was normally not part of the job description. Nonetheless, the means of applying that donation was apparently eye-catching.
Through his $10 stipulation, Karambelas was able to get questions answered. He was told that a move to FBS was still a possibility, "if the money is right," and that conference affiliation was one of the top items of discussion as the Board of Trustees met this week (on Monday), The 'Nova staffer also shared his opinion that if the school were to opt to seek membership in Conference USA or the MAC, they could "pick up the phone and be in by next week," due to the Villanova brand and the size of the Philadelphia market.

Furthermore, it was shared with Karambelas that Villanova plans to wait for more information on the ultimate value of the upcoming Big East TV deal before taking certain actions -- like potentially breaking away from the conference to form a new league with the other Catholic Universities. Ultimately, the money available in the "New" Big East will be the major factor in determining the next move for the university.

[Laker]

Interesting article today on VUHoops about a recent alum who used a $10 to get some info out of the University

http://www.vuhoops.com/2012/12/12/3757320/taking-matters-into-his-own-hands-karambelas-gets-results

Interesting what you can get for $10. I thought that only worked on detective shows..........

[HailSzczur]

It's a good thing Mpls doesn't make the conferences.

Please try to post this "St. Bonnies for Marquette" conference alignment on the Villanova Hoops board. I'm begging you.

I'm salivating at the thought. Throw in Cabrini, Merrimack, Sacred Heart, Cansius, and St. Peter's to make the ultimate CYO powerhouse. And kick those heathens in Storrs, Kingston, and Amherst, they're bad for our reputation. and Forget the Big East, this is a 9 bid a year conference.

If any movement happens, I think the Big East, gang of 7, or whatever the group is would like to keep 'Nova, 'Quette, and G'Town together, as they are the only teams out of the bunch with consistent success in the last 2 decades.

[MplsBison]

It's a good thing Mpls doesn't make the conferences.

Please try to post this "St. Bonnies for Marquette" conference alignment on the Villanova Hoops board. I'm begging you.

Nice try, but you obviously know I'm right or you wouldn't resort to something like that.

The original core members of the Big East are what matters. That's the brand. Not some school way out in Milwaukee.

[MplsBison]

I'm salivating at the thought. Throw in Cabrini, Merrimack, Sacred Heart, Cansius, and St. Peter's to make the ultimate CYO powerhouse. And kick those heathens in Storrs, Kingston, and Amherst, they're bad for our reputation. and Forget the Big East, this is a 9 bid a year conference.

If any movement happens, I think the Big East, gang of 7, or whatever the group is would like to keep 'Nova, 'Quette, and G'Town together, as they are the only teams out of the bunch with consistent success in the last 2 decades.

Indeed - so ask yourself, what has that success gotten you?

Why are you in the position you're in now, then?

[HailSzczur]

Interesting what you can get for $10. I thought that only worked on detective shows..........

No one is stingier about a buck than a Catholic school, but I guess they figured they weren't getting much more out of a recent alum?

[Laker]

No one is stingier about a buck than a Catholic school, but I guess they figured they weren't getting much more out of a recent alum?

How about "Football Bingo Night"?xsmiley_wix

[HailSzczur]

How about "Football Bingo Night"?xsmiley_wix

Not a chance. Football night at the theater would be more our speed.

I'm in the Men's Choir on campus and if fundraiser concerts would help our football/basketball teams status we would do it in a heartbeat

[Laker]

Not a chance. Football night at the theater would be more our speed.

I'm in the Men's Choir on campus and if fundraiser concerts would help our football/basketball teams status we would do it in a heartbeat

I was in choir and band in high school. Required by my father if I was going to be on the football and basketball teams. If I quit music I would have to quit sports. I was lucky, he liked baseball and didn't mind track.

Does Michigan still have their Glee Club? I remember hearing them sing "Hail the Victors" before the Ohio State game one year. Very impressive. I've always thought that athletics and music should be intertwined. I would think that it could be mutually beneficial.

[DFW HOYA]

Interesting article today on VUHoops about a recent alum who used a $10 to get some info out of the University

http://www.vuhoops.com/2012/12/12/3757320/taking-matters-into-his-own-hands-karambelas-gets-results

Forming a league with bottom feeder parochial schools will bankrupt Georgetown and Villanova. Caveat emptor.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Forming a league with bottom feeder parochial schools will bankrupt Georgetown and Villanova. Caveat emptor.

That's why I suspect a "Catholic league" won't include just Catholic schools. I would imagine it would be a 10- or 12-team conference, and that schools like Butler and perhaps even VCU would be in the mix. They are going to want schools with a recent history of success in the NCAA tournament to strengthen the league.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That's why I suspect a "Catholic league" won't include just Catholic schools. I would imagine it would be a 10- or 12-team conference, and that schools like Butler and perhaps even VCU would be in the mix. They are going to want schools with a recent history of success in the NCAA tournament to strengthen the league.

Interesting thought. Thinking of it as a CYO conference misses the point. It needs to be thought about as a "Super Duper Hoops Conference". You might need them all and go national with it: Gonzaga, Butler, VCU... others? St. Mary's? Missouri Valley schools?

[HailSzczur]

Interesting thought. Thinking of it as a CYO conference misses the point. It needs to be thought about as a "Super Duper Hoops Conference". You might need them all and go national with it: Gonzaga, Butler, VCU... others? St. Mary's? Missouri Valley schools?

Basically the only way it would work is if it was the BE core + the best of every mid major conference.

But even then it would be a ticking time bomb until our athletic department went bankrupt.

[MplsBison]

Forming a league with bottom feeder parochial schools will bankrupt Georgetown and Villanova. Caveat emptor.

So really, Gtown and Villanova fans won't pay to watch THEIR teams kick the butts of the Big East core membership (including UConn), schools that have been together since 1980?


If you honestly need 50% of the Verizon Center to be filled by the visiting team, you're SOL anyway in that venue no matter what happens. Better downgrade now.

[MplsBison]

Basically the only way it would work is if it was the BE core + the best of every mid major conference.

But even then it would be a ticking time bomb until our athletic department went bankrupt.

There are hundreds of mid and low major schools playing DI basketball. Seems like we should be hearing about many bankrupt cases every year, if your doomsday scenario is to be believed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Says you - and no one else.

So really, Gtown and Villanova fans won't pay to watch THEIR teams kick the butts of the Big East core membership, schools that have been together since 1980?


Throw in UConn and you have a perfectly fine conference. If you honestly need 50% of the Verizon Center to be filled by the visiting team, you're SOL anyway in that venue. Better downgrade now.

You forgot to wax philosophic about the draw of home Georgetown fans welcoming St. Bonaventure coming to the Verizon Center.

[MplsBison]

You forgot to wax philosophic about the draw of home Georgetown fans welcoming St. Bonaventure coming to the Verizon Center.

?????

Sometimes your non-sequitors are pretty breathtaking.

[HailSzczur]

There are hundreds of mid and low major schools playing DI basketball. Seems like we should be hearing about many bankrupt cases every year, if your doomsday scenario is to be believed.

Yeah, but how many of them are pouring millions into a football program? Look at the big mid majors in bball:

Wichita St- No football
Butler- PFL
Xavier- No football
Creighton- No football
Gonzaga- No football
St. Marys- DII I believe
St. Louis-No football
Sienna- No football
George Mason- No football
VCU- No football

....I'm starting to pick up a trend here. And most of the schools had a team at one point too....

[bonarae]

St. Marys- DII I believe

They have no football program since 2004. But you're right about the other schools on your list. Most of these schools had football programs until the 1980's.

[DFW HOYA]

Wichita St- Dropped as a I-A team in 1988. Regular rumors to return to the Missouri Valley.
Butler- Pioneer League
Xavier- Dropped as a major colleege team, 1973. Perfect PFL candidate, but the club team limps along
Creighton- Major college football, dropped in the late 1940's.
Gonzaga- Small college football, dropped in the early 1940's.
St. Marys- Dropped 2004 (I-AA). 13-scholarship program was too big for PFL and too small for Big Sky
St. Louis- Major college, dropped 1950, had a club team in the 1970's but it died
Siena- Part of the MAAC purge in the 2000s. Smallest budget in I-AA (just over 200K)
George Mason- Never had football, fell one trustee vote short in 1998. Would be what ODU is today with all the nearby talent
VCU- Never had football but with ODU's success might give it a try someday

[Laker]

St. Marys was going into the Great West, and dropped football right after the Conference announced it was starting up.
I would think that George Mason and VCU would be in a good spot to add football.

[DFW HOYA]

St. Marys was going into the Great West, and dropped football right after the Conference announced it was starting up.
I would think that George Mason and VCU would be in a good spot to add football.

VCU has two aging but suitable facilities at its disposal--the 21,000 seat City Stadium (former home of Richmond football) and the 12,000 seat Diamond (minor league baseball stadium adjacent to campus).

Mason would need to build a facility, as there are no suitable facilities in Northern Virginia with which to play.

[MplsBison]

St. Marys was going into the Great West, and dropped football right after the Conference announced it was starting up.
I would think that George Mason and VCU would be in a good spot to add football.

In fact, I believe that St Mary's dropping is what allowed the GW to have a full conference schedule that first year in 2004. If they had stayed in, not everyone would've played each other that first year.

[Laker]

In fact, I believe that St Mary's dropping is what allowed the GW to have a full conference schedule that first year in 2004. If they had stayed in, not everyone would've played each other that first year.

That could well be. I was just happy that the Dakota schools that had moved up got into some kind of conference. It just seemed odd that St. Mary's went to all the work of getting into a conference and then dropping the sport. I'm sure that the other schools wondered about that too.

[MplsBison]

Yeah, but how many of them are pouring millions into a football program? Look at the big mid majors in bball:

Wichita St- No football
Butler- PFL
Xavier- No football
Creighton- No football
Gonzaga- No football
St. Marys- DII I believe
St. Louis-No football
Sienna- No football
George Mason- No football
VCU- No football

....I'm starting to pick up a trend here. And most of the schools had a team at one point too....

"But even then it would be a ticking time bomb until our athletic department went bankrupt."

You said the athletic department would simply fall off a cliff - I guess due to the tremendous financial burden of trying to support a nationally competitive I-AA team as well as a nationally competitive men's division I basketball team, that rents out an NBA arena for select home games?

And your evidence for this...is a bunch of athletic departments that have never filed for bankruptcy, instead opting to drop football?


So I guess I don't quite get your point. Is your point that Villanova's athletic department will literally force a financial meltdown of all sports rather than drop football for the sake of maintaining men's bball? Well, I don't believe you.


I guess if it really was such that the Big East's former elite basketball programs were propping up Nova and Gtown's bball programs financially...then boy you guys really need to look at changing something. It won't be sustainable no matter what you do because there is no where for you to go and be with programs like that again. The best thing you can do, IMO is to go back to the roots of the core Big East bball conference as much as possible and hope the alumni will buy it.

Trying to stay with programs like Cincinnati? Houston? Memphis? That sure as heck ain't gonna get it done. Your alumni are going to see right through that. They're not going to buy your tickets just because those teams are "ranked good". So was Murray St last season.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Okay, things have changed (and Temple's situation clarified)...


A source told ESPN on Wednesday that Temple, as a football-only member, has voting rights but can't vote on dissolution of the league. With Temple unable to vote, that gives the seven basketball schools enough votes to dissolve the league.

And as a result, it now seems increasingly likely (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8742607/seven-catholic-schools-leaning-leaving-big-east-sources-say) that the seven hoops-only schools in the Big East will leave the league, perhaps making the announcement by the end of the week.

[bluehenbillk]

Okay, things have changed (and Temple's situation clarified)...



And as a result, it now seems increasingly likely (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8742607/seven-catholic-schools-leaning-leaving-big-east-sources-say) that the seven hoops-only schools in the Big East will leave the league, perhaps making the announcement by the end of the week.

Maybe it's just me, but I think these schools are making a BIG mistake if they leave. Their national profile will drop to that of say a Xavier overnight.

[PantherRob82]

Yeah, but how many of them are pouring millions into a football program? Look at the big mid majors in bball:

Wichita St- No football
Butler- PFL
Xavier- No football
Creighton- No football
Gonzaga- No football
St. Marys- DII I believe
St. Louis-No football
Sienna- No football
George Mason- No football
VCU- No football

....I'm starting to pick up a trend here. And most of the schools had a team at one point too....
Since 2007 13 teams, unless I missed some, with FCS football have had wins in the NCAA tourney.

UNI- MVFC, has been a regular NCAA participant, as well as FCS power.
Bucknell - PL, have a few wins in NCAA
Southern Illinois - MVFC, were a mid major power for years
Lehigh- PL, beat Duke last year
Murray State - OVC, basketball has come along lately
Norfolk State - MEAC, beat. 2 seed last year
Morehead State - PFL, so they barely count for this discussion
Richmond - CAA football
Butler - PFL
Villanova - CAA, Big East bball money
Old Dominion - CAA football, basketball was good for a few years
Georgetown - PL, but Big East bball money
Cornell - Ivy

[PantherRob82]

Maybe it's just me, but I think these schools are making a BIG mistake if they leave. Their national profile will drop to that of say a Xavier overnight.

They would essentially form a new Big East if I understand things right. Why would they have less of a profile? They are the only names left in the Big East outside of UConn.

[MplsBison]

Maybe it's just me, but I think these schools are making a BIG mistake if they leave. Their national profile will drop to that of say a Xavier overnight.

As opposed to dropping to the profile of Tulane's men's bball team? Come on...

[MplsBison]

Okay, things have changed (and Temple's situation clarified)...



And as a result, it now seems increasingly likely (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8742607/seven-catholic-schools-leaning-leaving-big-east-sources-say) that the seven hoops-only schools in the Big East will leave the league, perhaps making the announcement by the end of the week.

The Big East is dissolved. Done deal.

Only reason they're waiting on the announcement is to find out if UConn is going stay with schools they've been with since 1979/1980 (Nova) for all non-football sports, or if football is going to force them to join up with CUSA schools like Cincinnati, South Florida, etc.


I also think this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for Boise and San Diego St. As much as I would like to see Idaho and NM St get full invites to the MWC, I see no way that Boise and SDSU can possible join the Big East/Big West now.

They'll get the exact same access to the playoff and big time bowls as champions of the MWC football conference vs. being champions of the CUSA II conference. And the other half of their rational for the move, money, is no longer going to be there either.

Why would TV execs pay out more to watch Boise vs East Carolina instead of Boise vs Colorado St?

[MplsBison]

Now I'm just waiting for DFW's meltdown.

He's convinced that Gtown is going from a #3 seed in the MBB tournament to Holy Cross overnight unless the team stays with the likes of Memphis and Houston.

xrolleyesx

[Sandlapper Spike]

Connecticut isn't joining that hoops league, not if it wants to have a viable FBS program.

As for SDSU and Boise State, that will depend on how much money the Big East TV deal winds up being. It could still be significantly better for them (in terms of money) than if they remained in the MWC for all sports. I am a little dubious about that, but there is a reason they are still hanging in there -- for now.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Connecticut is *****ed.

[Sader87]

Now I'm just waiting for DFW's meltdown.

He's convinced that Gtown is going from a #3 seed in the MBB tournament to Holy Cross overnight unless the team stays with the likes of Memphis and Houston.

xrolleyesx

A "step-up" for the Hoyas imo.

[MplsBison]

Connecticut isn't joining that hoops league, not if it wants to have a viable FBS program.

As for SDSU and Boise State, that will depend on how much money the Big East TV deal winds up being. It could still be significantly better for them (in terms of money) than if they remained in the MWC for all sports. I am a little dubious about that, but there is a reason they are still hanging in there -- for now.

What does "viable FBS program" mean??

Unless another school leaves the ACC and they get an invite as a replacement, there is no way for them to get into one of the marquee five conferences.

I would say their football team would do well to stay with Cincinnati and South Florida and there's absolutely no reason for those schools to disallow UConn to be football only members rather than forcing them to join CUSA II.


You're absolutely correct in regards to Boise and SDSU. They'll still move if the money is there, swallowing their pride the whole way.

[Nova09]

I highly doubt they are going this way, but hypothetically if they wanted to make a Catholic football/basketball conference would that be feasible? The only Catholic FCS schools I can think of off the top of my head are Nova, Gtown, St Francis, Sacred Heart, Duquesne. Am I missing any?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I highly doubt they are going this way, but hypothetically if they wanted to make a Catholic football/basketball conference would that be feasible? The only Catholic FCS schools I can think of off the top of my head are Nova, Gtown, St Francis, Sacred Heart, Duquesne. Am I missing any?

Fordham, Holy Cross. I don't think this is acceptable to people for a multitude of reasons.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I certainly see DFW's point, and I understand his imminent meltdown on this matter. A "super-duper" hoops conference will not pay the bills of Georgetown's volleyball team flying out to Gonzaga or their women's soccer team making routine trips to Creighton. This is why he says this will bankrupt Georgetown (and, likely, the remaining hoops schools).

The only way a national hoops conference could work is if the NCAA changes its rules and allows schools to compete in a national hoops conference while competing in regional conferences in all other sports, which will never fly with the membership.

[Nova09]

Fordham, Holy Cross. I don't think this is acceptable to people for a multitude of reasons.

Forgot there were catholic schools in the patriot. But I agree it would not happen just throwing crazy ideas out there.

[aceinthehole]

If the Big East splits, it isn't on religious grounds - they will form the best conference of major hoops schools.

It just happens that most of those schools are private, and mostly Catholic.

[ccd494]

If the Big East splits, it isn't on religious grounds - they will form the best conference of major hoops schools.

It just happens that most of those schools are private, and mostly Catholic.

Heck, maybe if UConn gets left at the altar by everyone, they will go independent football and Big East basketball. (I know, 0.00001% chance of happening.)

[bluehenbillk]

If the Big East splits, it isn't on religious grounds - they will form the best conference of major hoops schools.

It just happens that most of those schools are private, and mostly Catholic.

Best conference of schools that just play hoops??

They go from what was for most of the 90's & 00's the best conference in basketball to the 6-10 range, depending on who is in the league.

[aceinthehole]

Best conference of schools that just play hoops??

They go from what was for most of the 90's & 00's the best conference in basketball to the 6-10 range, depending on who is in the league.

Yep, pretty much. They are trying to do the best they can with what they got left - no reason to become C-USA 2.0 in hoops too.

Without BCS money, these hoops-only majors will move out of the top-3 conferences but will likely stay around in the 4-8 range, depending on the year.

[Sader87]

Academically, Georgetown is and always will be Georgetown (an elite university) with or without the Big East. The schools that the BE probably most enhanced academically, and to an extent, athletically were Providence, Villanova and maybe Seton Hall. Those are the schools that will be hurt with the demise of the BE.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Academically, Georgetown is and always will be Georgetown (an elite university) with or without the Big East. The schools that the BE probably most enhanced academically, and to an extent, athletically were Providence, Villanova and maybe Seton Hall. Those are the schools that will be hurt with the demise of the BE.

You must have mixed up Villanova and St. John's. The Redmen are pretty screwed by this entire deal, while Villanova is one of the teams that appears to be driving this bus.

[Sader87]

My point was more that Villanova (and PC& Seton Hall somewhat) was enhanced academically by the Big East. Prior to the formation of the BE, Villanova was more of a regional Catholic school (albeit that had very good hoops), the BE gave it more national exposure and this improved its academic standing.

[superman7515]

New York Post reporting the split is done and will be announced today.

Big East Basketball-Only Schools To Split (http://newyorkpost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/big_east_basketball_only_schools_c2PMii2vTg8twF80U S3G6H)


The Big East Conference, the only to send three teams to a Final Four, will announce Thursday that its non-FBS programs are splitting from their brethren, sources told The Post.

The presidents of the seven schools that don’t play big time football - DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence Seton Hall, St. John’s and Villanova - are holding a teleconference with Big East Commissioner Mike Aresco Thursday and expected to issue a statement this afternoon saying that are parting ways.

The teleconference was taking place this morning, and Aresco was hoping to hold the league together. But multiple sources said the seven basketball-centric schools had had enough of the defections that had wreaked havoc on the league in the last couple of years.

It is the penultimate chapter in a story that began in 1979 when the Big East was founded, rose to prominence in the 80’s behind its basketball programs (Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova) got the Final Four in 1985 but then saw members with FBS programs leave for richer TV deals.

[GannonFan]

Best conference of schools that just play hoops??

They go from what was for most of the 90's & 00's the best conference in basketball to the 6-10 range, depending on who is in the league.

But all of that has already been put in motion anyway - with all the defections the Big East is already not the best conference in hoops and the last few defections will drop them down to the range you're talking about anyway. The death of the Big East was already set in motion and decided awhile ago, all that's happening now is determining where to hold the wake after the funeral.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A colossal error in judgement by the seven Big East presidents.

[MplsBison]

Oh, it is coming. It will not be in my best interests, but it is coming.

The meltdown or the split? :p

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Well it's about to be official, the A10 and Big Eas will be destroyed as we know it within the next few hours. With the demise of both conferences comes the potential downfall of Temple basketball. We should have dropped football following the 2005 season or remained in the A10 until its collapse. Now, we have nowhere to go.

[MplsBison]

A colossal error in judgement by the seven Big East presidents.

Yep, those idiots should've just sucked it up, stayed in CUSA II and started cranking up the marketing department to figure out how to sell tickets for home games vs. Tulane and East Carolina.

xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well it's about to be official, the A10 and Big Eas will be destroyed as we know it within the next few hours. With the demise of both conferences comes the potential downfall of Temple basketball. We should have dropped football following the 2005 season or remained in the A10 until its collapse. Now, we have nowhere to go.

Look at this silver lining: At least you're not UConn. :(

[MplsBison]

Well it's about to be official, the A10 and Big Eas will be destroyed as we know it within the next few hours. With the demise of both conferences comes the potential downfall of Temple basketball. We should have dropped football following the 2005 season or remained in the A10 until its collapse. Now, we have nowhere to go.

Nonesense. Your market is way too valuable to CUSA II to be left out. You'll be there with Cincy, Memphis, etc. Decent bball and football company - probably the best you can do outside of getting an ACC invitation.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yep, those idiots should've just sucked it up, stayed in CUSA II and started cranking up the marketing department to figure out how to sell tickets for home games vs. Tulane and East Carolina.

xrolleyesx

Wait until they see the alternative.

[MplsBison]

Look at this silver lining: At least you're not UConn. :(

UConn at worst will be in the exact same conference as Temple.

At best, their non-football will be back with the Big East core members and their football will be in CUSA II.


Take your anti-I-A propaganda elsewhere, we're not buying it.

[GannonFan]

A colossal error in judgement by the seven Big East presidents.

What could they have done differently? I think every one of them was hampered by the fact that they don't have and can't easily get FBS football. Maybe it could've been different for nova if they had both kept football back in the early 80's and also courted the Eagles so that they could have had an FBS team and a place to play when the Big East picked up football in the late 80's/early 90's, but once they missed that boat their fate was sealed. And for most of those other Big East schools (Seton Hall, Providence, etc) football was never in the equation.

Break off now, dissolve the league, keep the name and the share of the money that comes with it, hopefully keep MSG as a place to play the conference tournament, and see about wooing the cream of the crop of the A10 if you can to get back to 12 teams or so. If Xavier and Butler and VCU and some others came over that would at least keep the conference relavent in a basketball sense. The relevancy from a football sense has been doomed for awhile now.

Of course, out of all of this, you have to wonder what Temple is thinking. They finally get back into the Big East and finally get b-ball in there, and then the Big East breaks up. Where do they go since it's extremely likely nova wants nothing to do with them in the basketball-only Big East and having football could make the other schools wary of relying on them since they could in theory find a better home somewhere in the future.

Oh, and UConn too. They're screwed.

[MplsBison]

Wait until they see the alternative.

Yeah - GTown marketing is really going to have a tough time selling tickets to home games vs. Villanova, UConn, St. John's, Providence, etc.

The last 33 years history with those schools has been rough!

[HailSzczur]

Man, all of this is really screwing with my finals studying.

Now that the gang of 7 is leaving we should start a pool to predict who will make up this new CYO basketball conference. God I hope MPLS wasn't right with his predictions

[danefan]

A-21?

[MplsBison]

A-21?

That would be the only mistake that could be made.

Why would you have 21 schools that are only fighting for one auto-bid? Break it up, get two autos for cripes sake.

[HailSzczur]

Done with predicting what's going to happen now, the Big East has defied all logic so far with conference expansion an such so there really isn't a point.

My question is who gets the Big East name? The CYO schools with 4 founding members and Nova who came a year later, or the CUSA league that is left with 1 founding BE member.

[GannonFan]

No sense for the Big East 7 to just join the entire A10. If they can cherrypick the best of the best from the A10 that would be the best way to go, but hard to tell if those teams want to be cherrypicked.

[GannonFan]

Done with predicting what's going to happen now, the Big East has defied all logic so far with conference expansion an such so there really isn't a point.

My question is who gets the Big East name? The CYO schools with 4 founding members and Nova who came a year later, or the CUSA league that is left with 1 founding BE member.

I was under the impression from the NY Post article that if they dissolve the league the CYO 7 get to keep the name and the contract with MSG for the tournament.

[MplsBison]

What could they have done differently? I think every one of them was hampered by the fact that they don't have and can't easily get FBS football. Maybe it could've been different for nova if they had both kept football back in the early 80's and also courted the Eagles so that they could have had an FBS team and a place to play when the Big East picked up football in the late 80's/early 90's, but once they missed that boat their fate was sealed. And for most of those other Big East schools (Seton Hall, Providence, etc) football was never in the equation.

Break off now, dissolve the league, keep the name and the share of the money that comes with it, hopefully keep MSG as a place to play the conference tournament, and see about wooing the cream of the crop of the A10 if you can to get back to 12 teams or so. If Xavier and Butler and VCU and some others came over that would at least keep the conference relavent in a basketball sense. The relevancy from a football sense has been doomed for awhile now.

Of course, out of all of this, you have to wonder what Temple is thinking. They finally get back into the Big East and finally get b-ball in there, and then the Big East breaks up. Where do they go since it's extremely likely nova wants nothing to do with them in the basketball-only Big East and having football could make the other schools wary of relying on them since they could in theory find a better home somewhere in the future.

Oh, and UConn too. They're screwed.

Why does no one else see that Temple and UConn are going to the same place as Cincy and USF: I'm calling it the CUSA II.

All those teams that jumped over to the Big East from CUSA are going there too. It's like the CUSA afterlife. Every single one of the members of this new conference, save UConn and Temple and if they still decide to come over, Boise, SDSU and Navy were formerly in the CUSA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Man, all of this is really screwing with my finals studying.

Now that the gang of 7 is leaving we should start a pool to predict who will make up this new CYO basketball conference. God I hope MPLS wasn't right with his predictions

It sure seems like Gonzaga, BYU and St. Mary's want to be a part of this discussion, which doesn't help. Oh, yeah, and Marquette. And Xavier.

"Big East Soccer Quarterfinals: St. John's at Saint Louis"
Big East Soccer Semi's: St. Mary's at St. John's
Big East Soccer Finals (in Moraga, California): St. John's vs. Gonzaga"

[HailSzczur]

Look at this silver lining: At least you're not UConn. :(

How long til football only school (I'm especially talking to you Boise) see all this nonsense and start backing out? I know this move isn't damaging football, but who knows if it's that last move?

[MplsBison]

Done with predicting what's going to happen now, the Big East has defied all logic so far with conference expansion an such so there really isn't a point.

My question is who gets the Big East name? The CYO schools with 4 founding members and Nova who came a year later, or the CUSA league that is left with 1 founding BE member.

The core 7 have the rights to it. They'll keep it.

CUSA II will have to find another name, another conference HQ, etc.

[MplsBison]

No sense for the Big East 7 to just join the entire A10. If they can cherrypick the best of the best from the A10 that would be the best way to go, but hard to tell if those teams want to be cherrypicked.

Or if it makes financial sense for schools in Cincinnati, St Louis, Omaha, Indy to join up with the Big East core schools for every sport!

[HailSzczur]

It sure seems like Gonzaga, BYU and St. Mary's want to be a part of this discussion, which doesn't help. Oh, yeah, and Marquette. And Xavier.

"Big East Soccer Quarterfinals: St. John's at Saint Louis"
Big East Soccer Semi's: St. Mary's at St. John's
Big East Soccer Finals (in Moraga, California): St. John's vs. Gonzaga"

Marquette is in the gang of 7. I want to see Creighton, Xavier, Dayton, VCU, and Butler. Round it out to 12

[MplsBison]

How long til football only school (I'm especially talking to you Boise) see all this nonsense and start backing out? I know this move isn't damaging football, but who knows if it's that last move?

Depends on how much money they can get as members of CUSA II football. If it's more than they can get from the MWC, they'll probably still come over - ridiculous as it is.

[MplsBison]

Marquette is in the gang of 7. I want to see Creighton, Xavier, Dayton, VCU, and Butler. Round it out to 12

Makes sense for men's hoops. Doesn't make sense for every other sport.

Just keep in mind that there is no significant TV money to be had for regular season college bball. The money in that sport is in March Madness, which is all locked up by the NCAA.

[HailSzczur]

Or if it makes financial sense for schools in Cincinnati, St Louis, Omaha, Indy to join up with the Big East core schools for every sport!

Dude, stop reading my mind. That was scary. But thanking you, I forgot about St. Louis.

I forgot doomsday for conferences means its MPLS's time to shine :D.......but seriously I think you're getting a lot of this one right

[TypicalTribe]

This Big East season is going to be one of the strangest of all time.

[GannonFan]

Why does no one else see that Temple and UConn are going to the same place as Cincy and USF: I'm calling it the CUSA II.

All those teams that jumped over to the Big East from CUSA are going there too. It's like the CUSA afterlife. Every single one of the members of this new conference, save UConn and Temple and if they still decide to come over, Boise, SDSU and Navy were formerly in the CUSA.


I'm sure that's likely, I was just saying that it's a huge disappointment to Temple and I'm sure UConn to be faced with that. Temple's mission for years has been to get back to Big East football, and for even longer to get into the Big East for basketball, and when that multiple decade dream finally came true, they get it yanked away from them before they can even get to the tip off. Considering all the years they had with the A10 and the better proximity of all those schools, I wouldn't be surprised if they rejoined that for all the non-football sports and then let football go wherever the winds blow (and that may very well be the new CUSA - although going back to the MAC could be a possibility if the big name western schools like Boise aren't in the new CUSA).

For UConn, though, it's just further cementing the fact that no one wants them. And you have to wonder how much Jim Calhoun and people not liking him and the academic problems they have currently have played into that. The ACC taking Louisville was akin to them basically saying no to UConn. Unlike Temple, UConn hasn't had to slum it anytime recently. It's a bigger fall for them.

[MplsBison]

CUSA II:

UConn (football only)
Temple
Cincinnati
South Florida
Houston
SMU
Central Florida
Tulane
East Carolina (added for all sports)

If they still decide to come over:
Navy (football only)
Boise st (football only)
San Diego St (football only)

[MplsBison]

Dude, stop reading my mind. That was scary. But thanking you, I forgot about St. Louis.

I forgot doomsday for conferences means its MPLS's time to shine :D.......but seriously I think you're getting a lot of this one right

I love conference realignment. It's like a hobby.

[HailSzczur]

CUSA II:

UConn (football only)
Temple
Cincinnati
South Florida
Houston
SMU
Central Florida
Tulane
East Carolina (added for all sports)

If they still decide to come over:
Navy (football only)
Boise st (football only)
San Diego St (football only)

Where do you think UConn parks it's other sports? CYO league is my vote. Take them and Cincy.

[TypicalTribe]

There is no reason for Boise St to join this conference. Rest of the teams no better than what they can stay with in the Mountain West and much cheaper travel-wise.

[HailSzczur]

There is no reason for Boise St to join this conference. Rest of the teams no better than what they can stay with in the Mountain West and much cheaper travel-wise.

BCS auto bid was the only reason they came over. Not sure that the Big Least keeps that anymore/what the 4 team playoff does to that all. Boise will never run a play in the BE/CUSA

[MplsBison]

I'm sure that's likely, I was just saying that it's a huge disappointment to Temple and I'm sure UConn to be faced with that. Temple's mission for years has been to get back to Big East football, and for even longer to get into the Big East for basketball, and when that multiple decade dream finally came true, they get it yanked away from them before they can even get to the tip off. Considering all the years they had with the A10 and the better proximity of all those schools, I wouldn't be surprised if they rejoined that for all the non-football sports and then let football go wherever the winds blow (and that may very well be the new CUSA - although going back to the MAC could be a possibility if the big name western schools like Boise aren't in the new CUSA).

For UConn, though, it's just further cementing the fact that no one wants them. And you have to wonder how much Jim Calhoun and people not liking him and the academic problems they have currently have played into that. The ACC taking Louisville was akin to them basically saying no to UConn. Unlike Temple, UConn hasn't had to slum it anytime recently. It's a bigger fall for them.

Maybe this is just an outsider's point of view, but I don't see it that way in either case.

Temple: they just got back into the Big East - only because other schools left. If the Big East still had Miami, VT, BC, Pitt, Cuse, WV, would Temple have been invited back? No.

They need to stay patient, keep building on the success they had in the MAC and realize that going from the MAC to CUSA II is still an upgrade, when you consider average stadium size, budgets, etc.


UConn: for many years they were just an elite bball team. They can still have exactly what they have always had, playing bball with the Big East core schools.

It's just very recently that they've tried to be a big time football school. They had the least history, so they in a sense had least earned the chance to play in the ACC. They still might get the chance if the Big Ten takes Virginia, Georgia Tech or North Carolina.

So again, I don't see a New Big East for non-football and CUSA II for football as any kind of downgrade over what they would've had if this Big East would've stayed.

[MplsBison]

Where do you think UConn parks it's other sports? CYO league is my vote. Take them and Cincy.

Definitely the New Big East. Don't know about Cincy. If the Big East core teams are going to be sending non-football sports to southern Ohio, they might as well take Xavier instead.

[MplsBison]

BCS auto bid was the only reason they came over. Not sure that the Big Least keeps that anymore/what the 4 team playoff does to that all. Boise will never run a play in the BE/CUSA

Well, again not the ONLY reason (but a big reason). Money/better TV deal was a factor too...which may still be enough in the CUSA II to keep them coming.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm sure that's likely, I was just saying that it's a huge disappointment to Temple and I'm sure UConn to be faced with that. Temple's mission for years has been to get back to Big East football, and for even longer to get into the Big East for basketball, and when that multiple decade dream finally came true, they get it yanked away from them before they can even get to the tip off. Considering all the years they had with the A10 and the better proximity of all those schools, I wouldn't be surprised if they rejoined that for all the non-football sports and then let football go wherever the winds blow (and that may very well be the new CUSA - although going back to the MAC could be a possibility if the big name western schools like Boise aren't in the new CUSA).

For UConn, though, it's just further cementing the fact that no one wants them. And you have to wonder how much Jim Calhoun and people not liking him and the academic problems they have currently have played into that. The ACC taking Louisville was akin to them basically saying no to UConn. Unlike Temple, UConn hasn't had to slum it anytime recently. It's a bigger fall for them.

How happy must Villanova's president and AD be to see Temple relegated to second-banana status? You have to wonder if they've been plotting this since Temple joined.

[HailSzczur]

Definitely the New Big East. Don't know about Cincy. If the Big East core teams are going to be sending non-football sports to southern Ohio, they might as well take Xavier instead.

Personally I would like both Cincy and Xavier.....

Add Cincy and Uconn to the 7, thats 9. Xavier, Butler, St. Louis makes 12?

[GannonFan]

Maybe this is just an outsider's point of view, but I don't see it that way in either case.

Temple: they just got back into the Big East - only because other schools left. If the Big East still had Miami, VT, BC, Pitt, Cuse, WV, would Temple have been invited back? No.

They need to stay patient, keep building on the success they had in the MAC and realize that going from the MAC to CUSA II is still an upgrade, when you consider average stadium size, budgets, etc.


UConn: for many years they were just an elite bball team. They can still have exactly what they have always had, playing bball with the Big East core schools.

It's just very recently that they've tried to be a big time football school. They had the least history, so they in a sense had least earned the chance to play in the ACC. They still might get the chance if the Big Ten takes Virginia, Georgia Tech or North Carolina.

So again, I don't see a New Big East for non-football and CUSA II for football as any kind of downgrade over what they would've had if this Big East would've stayed.

I think the downgrade for UConn is that they wanted to stay in an all-sports, top of the line conference. They had it in the Big East before the defections and they clearly wanted in on the ACC. There's no doubting that this arrangement, no matter how it shakes out, is a less appealing option than full ACC membership would'v been.

For Temple, yes, of course their opportunity came out of the Big East becoming less than it had been, but it was still the culmination of where they wanted to be. If the big western schools aren't in the new CUSA, then I don't think that's a step up over the MAC.