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TSU86
November 24th, 2012, 08:54 PM
Watched a little of Grambling/Southern today.

I know that the bayou classic is a historical game, and I assume it is played on the same Saturday every yr.

Does the SWAC not participate in the play-offs? assuming not ...then why?

superman7515
November 24th, 2012, 09:08 PM
They don't participate because they have games they are not interested in giving up that interfere with the playoffs; Turkey Day Classic and Bayou Classic. Although the Turkey Day Classic is ending so basically the conference is held up by the Bayou Classic.

LuckyKat
November 24th, 2012, 09:10 PM
Short version SWAC chooses not to participate

Tim James
November 25th, 2012, 12:00 AM
Because they went 0-19 or something. Even when Alcorn St had Steve McNair the SWAC still couldnt win a playoff game.

813Jag
November 25th, 2012, 09:37 AM
The Bayou Classic only stops Southern and Grambling from going to the playoffs (and since they won a combined 5 games that point is moot. The other 6 teams can't go because of the SWAC championship game. It has been that way since 1999.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 09:43 AM
Because instead of being embarrassed like the MEAC, they chose to put on their own thing, cash in, and feel good about themselves.

Bayou Classic should have just been an 3 hr battle of the bands. 5 wins between the two teams, please.

813Jag
November 25th, 2012, 09:47 AM
Because instead of being embarrassed like the MEAC, they chose to put on their own thing, cash in, and feel good about themselves.

Bayou Classic should have just been an 3 hr battle of the bands. 5 wins between the two teams, please.
I'm sorry our game offended the almighty NDSU football gods. Please accept my humble apology.

DSUrocks07
November 25th, 2012, 10:38 AM
I'm sorry our game offended the almighty NDSU football gods. Please accept my humble apology.

Your banishment has been decreed by the kings of the FCS kingdom. I'm sorry.

Bison Fan in NW MN
November 25th, 2012, 10:50 AM
I'm sorry our game offended the almighty NDSU football gods. Please accept my humble apology.


Isn't what NoDak said basically the truth.

2 SWAC teams have been to Fargo....PV and MVSU, and both of them were horrible teams.

DSUrocks07
November 25th, 2012, 10:56 AM
Isn't what NoDak said basically the truth.

2 SWAC teams have been to Fargo....PV and MVSU, and both of them were horrible teams.

That's like a team saying "we've played Rhode Island and Georgia State. The CAA is horrible."

Both PV and MVSU have been historically bad teams.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 11:15 AM
That's like a team saying "we've played Rhode Island and Georgia State. The CAA is horrible."

Both PV and MVSU have been historically bad teams.

Come on. To have the National Championship game relegated to ESPN2 while two teams who have a combined win total that is half of the top seeds in the tournament on a national network is awful.

That PVAM team that got creamed in Fargo beat both of the teams in the Bayou Classic, handily.

kdinva
November 25th, 2012, 11:46 AM
Well, we ALL can admit the SWAC has produced a lot of great individual talent over the years..........look at the namesakes of the four 1-AA post season awards......

superman7515
November 25th, 2012, 01:32 PM
Come on. To have the National Championship game relegated to ESPN2 while two teams who have a combined win total that is half of the top seeds in the tournament on a national network is awful.

That PVAM team that got creamed in Fargo beat both of the teams in the Bayou Classic, handily.

And what does that tell you? On a national level, the SWAC brand is worth more than the rest of the FCS. What other conference has games shown on NBC, ABC, or CBS? None of them. The CAA is making headway with CBS Sports, but that's not on the same level as what the SWAC is given. Even the MEAC had a deal with ESPN long before any other FCS conferences games were televised by them. Whether you or I or anyone else agrees with it, the people who see the money agree that they can make more off the SWAC and MEAC than they can off the CAA, MVFC, SoCon, etc. I don't have to like it, but they have clearly sold the market value better than any of our schools/conferences have.

superman7515
November 25th, 2012, 01:35 PM
The Bayou Classic only stops Southern and Grambling from going to the playoffs (and since they won a combined 5 games that point is moot. The other 6 teams can't go because of the SWAC championship game. It has been that way since 1999.

Yes, but if it wasn't for the Bayou Classic and the Turkey Day Classic, the SWAC Championship game could be moved up and the SWAC could participate in the playoffs. Nothing in the rules precludes a FCS conference from having a conference championship game, you just have to make sure it is played before Selection Sunday. The problem then is you have to either A) drop one regular season game from everyone's schedule or B) have everyone in the conference agree not to have a bye-week.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 01:43 PM
And what does that tell you? On a national level, the SWAC brand is worth more than the rest of the FCS. What other conference has games shown on NBC, ABC, or CBS? None of them. The CAA is making headway with CBS Sports, but that's not on the same level as what the SWAC is given. Even the MEAC had a deal with ESPN long before any other FCS conferences games were televised by them. Whether you or I or anyone else agrees with it, the people who see the money agree that they can make more off the SWAC and MEAC than they can off the CAA, MVFC, SoCon, etc. I don't have to like it, but they have clearly sold the market value better than any of our schools/conferences have.

All sizzle and no steak. Kind of like the bowl system.

DJnva
November 25th, 2012, 01:46 PM
And what does that tell you? On a national level, the SWAC brand is worth more than the rest of the FCS. What other conference has games shown on NBC, ABC, or CBS? None of them. The CAA is making headway with CBS Sports,

You mean with NBC...

WileECoyote06
November 25th, 2012, 02:04 PM
And what does that tell you? On a national level, the SWAC brand is worth more than the rest of the FCS. What other conference has games shown on NBC, ABC, or CBS? None of them. The CAA is making headway with CBS Sports, but that's not on the same level as what the SWAC is given. Even the MEAC had a deal with ESPN long before any other FCS conferences games were televised by them. Whether you or I or anyone else agrees with it, the people who see the money agree that they can make more off the SWAC and MEAC than they can off the CAA, MVFC, SoCon, etc. I don't have to like it, but they have clearly sold the market value better than any of our schools/conferences have.

Also people ignore that Grambling and Southern make enough money off the Bayou Classic to pay for their appearance on NBC every year. Everyone else in the country can feel free to get that type of deal on your own. . .

Either way, the Turkey Day Classic, SWAC Championship, and MEAC-SWAC challenge are all featured on the ESPN networks. You can't fault them for taking advantage of their marketability.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 02:32 PM
Also people ignore that Grambling and Southern make enough money off the Bayou Classic to pay for their appearance on NBC every year. Everyone else in the country can feel free to get that type of deal on your own. . .

Either way, the Turkey Day Classic, SWAC Championship, and MEAC-SWAC challenge are all featured on the ESPN networks. You can't fault them for taking advantage of their marketability.

As I said on another thread. These games are tantamount to bowls, so these teams aren't really FCS.

McNeese75
November 25th, 2012, 04:59 PM
As I said on another thread. These games are tantamount to bowls, so these teams aren't really FCS.

Yep, SWAC and Ivies need to be out of the FCS.

Big Dawg
November 25th, 2012, 05:10 PM
Okay...TECHNICALLY the SWAC does participate...for example, if the conference ever became ridiculously strong and three SWAC teams were playoff worthy, but that third team was playing in the SWAC Title game, then that odd man out would represent the SWAC in the playoffs...at least that was my understanding of it a a couple of seasons ago

Can somebody confirm that?

Big Dawg
November 25th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Come on. To have the National Championship game relegated to ESPN2 while two teams who have a combined win total that is half of the top seeds in the tournament on a national network is awful.


That sounds like sour grapes, man...complain to the NCAA or whoever negotiates the television contracts for the FCS playoffs. You can't fault Southern or Grambling for playing in the Bayou Classic and having it on NBC. They were playing on NBC when both programs were dominant. Remember, SU and Grambling were both highly ranked Div. I-AA teams at times in the 90s

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 05:20 PM
That sounds like sour grapes, man...complain to the NCAA or whoever negotiates the television contracts for the FCS playoffs. You can't fault Southern or Grambling for playing in the Bayou Classic and having it on NBC. They were playing on NBC when both programs were dominant. Remember, SU and Grambling were both highly ranked Div. I-AA teams at times in the 90s

I just find it absurd, any serious football observer would recognize that.

dgtw
November 25th, 2012, 05:24 PM
They don't participate because they have games they are not interested in giving up that interfere with the playoffs; Turkey Day Classic and Bayou Classic. Although the Turkey Day Classic is ending so basically the conference is held up by the Bayou Classic.

I haven't heard that about the Turkey Day game. Is that the Tuskegee-Alabama State game? I read a story about the game in the Birmingham paper yesterday (more about the new stadium than the game itself) and it did not mention the series is ending.

How is the sWAC even able to have a championship game with a ten team league? I thought you had to have 12 teams, at least that's why the Big XII dropped theirs.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 05:41 PM
I haven't heard that about the Turkey Day game. Is that the Tuskegee-Alabama State game? I read a story about the game in the Birmingham paper yesterday (more about the new stadium than the game itself) and it did not mention the series is ending.

How is the sWAC even able to have a championship game with a ten team league? I thought you had to have 12 teams, at least that's why the Big XII dropped theirs.

Because it's just made up, just like everything else. Another game for a paycheck. Makes them feel like they're playing for something all season.

PAllen
November 25th, 2012, 05:56 PM
Come on. To have the National Championship game relegated to ESPN2 while two teams who have a combined win total that is half of the top seeds in the tournament on a national network is awful.

That PVAM team that got creamed in Fargo beat both of the teams in the Bayou Classic, handily.

Any game that can fill the Superdome is going to get more national exposure than our DivII+ championship. If FCS could get the SWAC and the Ivy league to participate, then there might be a chance, at least then (we get the pioneer in next year) we could lay true claim to it being a national championship. And no, as long as 1/8 of the schools in your subdivision don't participate, it's not a national championship. Unfortunately those are the smallest programs in the subdivision, not the biggest which will still be sitting it out. Honestly, I don't know what the FCS playoffs has to offer the Ivies and SWAC at this point.

Big Dawg
November 25th, 2012, 05:59 PM
Because it's just made up, just like everything else. Another game for a paycheck. Makes them feel like they're playing for something all season.

They've been playing the Turkey Day Classic since 1924 for crying outloud...let them have their tradition.

BTW, before you keep complaining, the Turkey Day Classic is rumored to be coming to an end...and I believe ASU has expressed an interest in competing in the playoffs.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 06:00 PM
Any game that can fill the Superdome is going to get more national exposure than our DivII+ championship. If FCS could get the SWAC and the Ivy league to participate, then there might be a chance, at least then (we get the pioneer in next year) we could lay true claim to it being a national championship. And no, as long as 1/8 of the schools in your subdivision don't participate, it's not a national championship. Unfortunately those are the smallest programs in the subdivision, not the biggest which will still be sitting it out. Honestly, I don't know what the FCS playoffs has to offer the Ivies and SWAC at this point.

Funny, I saw the trophy and it said National Champion. Just because they can't compete and want the money instead doesn't delegitimize the rest of the division.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 06:03 PM
They've been playing the Turkey Day Classic since 1924 for crying outloud...ASU didn't join Division I until the 90s...let them have their tradition.

BTW, before you keep complaining, the Turkey Day Classic is rumored to be coming to an end...and I believe ASU has expressed an interest in competing in the playoffs.

The SWAC championship is made up, the Heritage Bowl was made up. Both of them just to get some postseason action in for these teams. That's it.

When two schools play a rivalry game together, it's just a game. Like the Dakota Marker game or the Iron Bowl. We just had "The Game" here between Ohio State and Michigan. Just because it has a name, doesn't make it significant.

PAllen
November 25th, 2012, 06:04 PM
Yep, SWAC and Ivies need to be out of the FCS.

So let's see, the SWAC, Ivies, and Pioneer need to be out of FCS. Not so long ago it was the NEC and Big South too, but they're OK now, (maybe?). The Patriot is somewhere in between the two, but only because they've promised to offer scholarships (although if they don't drop the AI, they may need to be booted too). Finally, the OVC and the Southland can stick around as long as they don't expect to actually participate in the playoffs unless they beat a few Big 10 schools in the regular season.

Yeah, that's a good way to make FCS relevant.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 06:05 PM
So let's see, the SWAC, Ivies, and Pioneer need to be out of FCS. Not so long ago it was the NEC and Big South too, but they're OK now, (maybe?). The Patriot is somewhere in between the two, but only because they've promised to offer scholarships (although if they don't drop the AI, they may need to be booted too). Finally, the OVC and the Southland can stick around as long as they don't expect to actually participate in the playoffs unless they beat a few Big 10 schools in the regular season.

Yeah, that's a good way to make FCS relevant.

Whew, this is like whack a mole.

The C in FCS stands for championship. If you want to abstain from the championship, you aren't in the FCS.

superman7515
November 25th, 2012, 06:10 PM
I haven't heard that about the Turkey Day game. Is that the Tuskegee-Alabama State game? I read a story about the game in the Birmingham paper yesterday (more about the new stadium than the game itself) and it did not mention the series is ending.

How is the sWAC even able to have a championship game with a ten team league? I thought you had to have 12 teams, at least that's why the Big XII dropped theirs.

I don't know, I've seen a lot of talk that the contract wasn't renewed and that whatever length it was already signed for will run the course but that will be the end.

As for how they are able to hold a SWAC Championship Game with 10 members, it is exempted by NCAA FCS rule, so the rule that allows FCS conferences to do so would not allow the Big 10 to hold a championship game without having 12 members.

superman7515
November 25th, 2012, 06:11 PM
Whew, this is like whack a mole.

The C in FCS stands for championship. If you don't want to abstain from the championship, you aren't in the FCS.

If you don't want to abstain from the championship, you aren't in the FCS? So NDSU is not in the FCS because they don't want to abstain from the championship? By that reasoning, the only two conferences actually in the FCS are the Ivy League and SWAC.

DJnva
November 25th, 2012, 06:20 PM
The C in FCS stands for championship. If you don't want to abstain from the championship, you aren't in the FCS.

Uhh...

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 06:22 PM
If you don't want to abstain from the championship, you aren't in the FCS? So NDSU is not in the FCS because they don't want to abstain from the championship? By that reasoning, the only two conferences actually in the FCS are the Ivy League and SWAC.


Uhh...

Oh jeez. I changed my wording after writing the sentence in the first place and forgot to omit my negative. Smart people like you should get my meaning.

BluBengal07
November 25th, 2012, 07:52 PM
"One Man's Quest to Prove Them Wrong" xcoffeex

Kramden
November 25th, 2012, 08:25 PM
NoDak 4 Ever;1901439]Because instead of being embarrassed like the MEAC, they chose to put on their own thing, cash in, and feel good about themselves.

Bayou Classic should have just been an 3 hr battle of the bands. 5 wins between the two teams, please.

Why do you have to be such a moron? Big man on an FCS campus? Give me a break. Why don't you work on getting your school into the FBS and stop rubbing the other conferneces' nose in the dirt? Is it you have no life or you are simply a stooge?

WileECoyote06
November 25th, 2012, 08:44 PM
"One Man's Quest to Prove Them Wrong" xcoffeex

lol. . rep points.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 09:02 PM
NoDak 4 Ever;1901439]Because instead of being embarrassed like the MEAC, they chose to put on their own thing, cash in, and feel good about themselves.

Bayou Classic should have just been an 3 hr battle of the bands. 5 wins between the two teams, please.

Why do you have to be such a moron? Big man on an FCS campus? Give me a break. Why don't you work on getting your school into the FBS and stop rubbing the other conferneces' nose in the dirt? Is it you have no life or you are simply a stooge?

I love my school being in FCS. I would be very upset if they went to the FBS.

The OP in this thread asked a question, I answered it. I have done little more than defend my answer throughout this thread. I don't really care if the SWAC participates in the playoffs, they weren't particularly successful anyway.

Big Dawg
November 25th, 2012, 09:17 PM
I love my school being in FCS. I would be very upset if they went to the FBS.

The OP in this thread asked a question, I answered it. I have done little more than defend my answer throughout this thread. I don't really care if the SWAC participates in the playoffs, they weren't particularly successful anyway.

You didn't answer anything...you just bashed them for not participating in the playoffs...which kinda shows that you care...

NoDak 4 Ever
November 25th, 2012, 09:27 PM
You didn't answer anything...you just bashed them for not participating in the playoffs...which kinda shows that you care...

The question was:




Does the SWAC not participate in the play-offs? assuming not ...then why?

I answered:


Because instead of being embarrassed like the MEAC, they chose to put on their own thing, cash in, and feel good about themselves.

Bayou Classic should have just been an 3 hr battle of the bands. 5 wins between the two teams, please.

Albeit that offered a little more editorializing which started the whole ****storm but I was no less kind than any other non-HBCU apologist that has responded.

3rd Coast Tiger
November 26th, 2012, 03:35 AM
Here we go with this .... again.

If anyone has an issue with the SWAC's non participation in the FCS playoffs I beg of you to rally your local congressmen to have the entire conference disassociated with the FCS division; better yet the NCAA. I've given that simple explanation on multiple occasions since I've been a member and to date no one has taken me up on my offer.

Therefore, get over it... move around or kick rocks.

*Next is the Jet magazine, Miss Black America comment*

ITmonarch10
November 26th, 2012, 04:06 AM
The question was:



I answered:



Albeit that offered a little more editorializing which started the whole ****storm but I was no less kind than any other non-HBCU apologist that has responded.

Why the hell does it matter to you so much? They do their own thing like the Ivy's. They don't care so much about winning the FCS title as they do about the tradition of their bowl games. Also, NoDak you do realize they have been playing these bowl games well before it was lucrative.

tourguide
November 26th, 2012, 05:04 AM
Not to change the topic but who has more nc wins; swac, meac or uni?

dgtw
November 26th, 2012, 05:25 AM
Here we go with this .... again.

If anyone has an issue with the SWAC's non participation in the FCS playoffs I beg of you to rally your local congressmen to have the entire conference disassociated with the FCS division; better yet the NCAA. I've given that simple explanation on multiple occasions since I've been a member and to date no one has taken me up on my offer.

Therefore, get over it... move around or kick rocks.

*Next is the Jet magazine, Miss Black America comment*

I suppose we could have an AGS group protest outside the NCAA's offices to banish the SWAC from the NCAA for not being in the playoffs, but I doubt it would do any good.

But this is what message boards are for...to voice your opinion and a lot of people have the opinion they should be in the playoffs. We also complain about the Ivy not being in either, but that doesn't make us anti-intellectualists any more than the SWAC bashers are racist.

ITmonarch10
November 26th, 2012, 07:00 AM
Not to change the topic but who has more nc wins; swac, meac or uni?

The MEAC was once a decent conference. FAMU has a NC.

ITmonarch10
November 26th, 2012, 07:26 AM
I suppose we could have an AGS group protest outside the NCAA's offices to banish the SWAC from the NCAA for not being in the playoffs, but I doubt it would do any good.

But this is what message boards are for...to voice your opinion and a lot of people have the opinion they should be in the playoffs. We also complain about the Ivy not being in either, but that doesn't make us anti-intellectualists any more than the SWAC bashers are racist.


Because instead of being embarrassed like the MEAC, they chose to put on their own thing, cash in, and feel good about themselves.

Bayou Classic should have just been an 3 hr battle of the bands. 5 wins between the two teams, please.

You can have intelligent discussion about the post season habits of the IVY/SWAC. However, its kinda hard to that when some people come off as complete dicks right off the bat. You don't have an intelligent discussion by belittling someone in your arguement.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 26th, 2012, 07:29 AM
You can have intelligent discussion about the post season habits of the IVY/SWAC. However, its kinda hard to that when some people come off as complete dicks right off the bat. You don't have an intelligent discussion by belittling someone in your arguement.

As I said, the editorializing may have been harsh but my assertions were correct.

813Jag
November 26th, 2012, 08:07 AM
a regular season game for a trophy is a made up bowl game? Don't other FCS teams have trophy games? Or do you have to go to the playoffs to have those games? xconfusedx

NoDak 4 Ever
November 26th, 2012, 08:16 AM
a regular season game for a trophy is a made up bowl game? Don't other FCS teams have trophy games? Or do you have to go to the playoffs to have those games? xconfusedx

Look, I'm not saying anything about the game per se but as it stands, NDSU/SDSU play for a trophy right now just as NDSU/UND did for 70 years in Division II, etc.

Those games don't preclude us from playoffs. The only question posed in this whole thread is why does the SWAC abstain from the playoffs.

BluBengal07
November 26th, 2012, 08:44 AM
Because it's just made up, just like everything else. Another game for a paycheck. Makes them feel like they're playing for something all season.


Funny, I saw the trophy and it said National Champion. Just because they can't compete and want the money instead doesn't delegitimize the rest of the division.


The SWAC championship is made up, the Heritage Bowl was made up. Both of them just to get some postseason action in for these teams. That's it.

When two schools play a rivalry game together, it's just a game. Like the Dakota Marker game or the Iron Bowl. We just had "The Game" here between Ohio State and Michigan. Just because it has a name, doesn't make it significant.


a regular season game for a trophy is a made up bowl game? Don't other FCS teams have trophy games? Or do you have to go to the playoffs to have those games? xconfusedx


yes, the expert says it's all a fairy tale. there is no point to them. if you're not in the playoff, you should at least compete in competitive rock kicking. however, if your a playoff playing team, it's tradition.

3rd Coast Tiger
November 26th, 2012, 09:05 AM
I suppose we could have an AGS group protest outside the NCAA's offices to banish the SWAC from the NCAA for not being in the playoffs, but I doubt it would do any good.

Exactly.


But this is what message boards are for...to voice your opinion and a lot of people have the opinion they should be in the playoffs. We also complain about the Ivy not being in either, but that doesn't make us anti-intellectualists any more than the SWAC bashers are racist.


At the end of the day, once this thread (like many that have preceded it) reaches 10-12 pages with both sides stating their case (some with facts and a proven rationale as to the genesis of why the SWAC does not participate) what has it accomplished?

Was there a teaching moment?

Did anyone become tolerant of the opposing side?

Would I prefer the SWAC to be a FCS playoff participant? Yes.

After talking with three SWAC presidents and even more athletic directors I can from an economic perspective understand as to why an alternative option was approved by the COP back in 1998.

superman7515
November 26th, 2012, 09:20 AM
The MEAC was once a decent conference. FAMU has a NC.

FAMU wasn't in the MEAC when they won the NC in 1978, they were in the D2 SIAC. They didn't join the MEAC until the following season.

ITmonarch10
November 26th, 2012, 09:27 AM
Look, I'm not saying anything about the game per se but as it stands, NDSU/SDSU play for a trophy right now just as NDSU/UND did for 70 years in Division II, etc.

Those games don't preclude us from playoffs. The only question posed in this whole thread is why does the SWAC abstain from the playoffs.


I'm going to take a wild guess and say some of these HBCU bowls were born out of era of segregation. They continue because its a major cultural event\money maker in the south and overrules the fcs playoffs. I think its pretty obvious by the attendances numbers, ESPN contract, media hype and novels dedicated to the history of these bowls. Honestly, I think many FCS school would forgot the playoffs for that kinda of money and publicity. Imagine if the SDSU and NDSU rivalry over the overgrown door stopper got that kind of hype. I doubt their football teams would ever be in the FCS playoffs either. Its not all that different why FBS is so reluctant to give up its bowls(money) except these bowls have some historical meaning behind them.

"In the late 90′s, the economic impact of the Bayou Classic was $50 million dollars (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_22_16/ai_58614848/). In 2004, the number had jumped to $175 million (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20071004/ai_n21038911/). Last year, the dollar amount exceeded $200 million. (http://www.gram.edu/docs/ECONOMIC%20IMPACT%20gsu_final.pdf) Suffice it to say that the City of New Orleans would be less than eager to let the BC go that easily. Factor in what the participating schools stand to benefit, and it doesn’t make dollars or sense for the elite programs in the SWAC to abandon their money-making Classic plans."


Both the Ivy/SWAC do have supporters that wish to join the FCS playoffs ;however, there is always someone blocking it.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 26th, 2012, 09:36 AM
I'm going to take a wild guess and say some of these HBCU bowls were born out of era of segregation. They continue because its a major cultural event\money maker in the south and overrules the fcs playoffs. I think its pretty obvious by the attendances numbers, ESPN contract, media hype and novels dedicated to the history of these bowls. Honestly, I think many FCS school would forgot the playoffs for that kinda of money and publicity. Imagine if the SDSU and NDSU rivalry over the overgrown door stopper got that kind of hype. I doubt their football teams would ever be in the FCS playoffs either. Its not all that different why FBS is so reluctant to give up its bowls(money) except these bowls have some historical meaning behind them.

"In the late 90′s, the economic impact of the Bayou Classic was $50 million dollars (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_22_16/ai_58614848/). In 2004, the number had jumped to $175 million (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20071004/ai_n21038911/). Last year, the dollar amount exceeded $200 million. (http://www.gram.edu/docs/ECONOMIC%20IMPACT%20gsu_final.pdf) Suffice it to say that the City of New Orleans would be less than eager to let the BC go that easily. Factor in what the participating schools stand to benefit, and it doesn’t make dollars or sense for the elite programs in the SWAC to abandon their money-making Classic plans."


Both the Ivy/SWAC do have supporters that wish to join the FCS playoffs ;however, there is always someone blocking it.

I am simply calling out the absurdity of the actual football product being a non-factor in the reward system. They don't have to be good to cash in. It's like a reality tv show.

3rd Coast Tiger
November 26th, 2012, 09:41 AM
I am simply calling out the absurdity of the actual football product being a non-factor in the reward system. They don't have to be good to cash in. It's like a reality tv show.

So now what?

ITmonarch10
November 26th, 2012, 09:45 AM
FAMU wasn't in the MEAC when they won the NC in 1978, they were in the D2 SIAC. They didn't join the MEAC until the following season.

Thx for the info I did not know that.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 26th, 2012, 09:48 AM
So now what?

So nothing. If nobody cares that this is going on, nobody cares. The OP asked a question, I was indelicate with the answer, simple as that.

superman7515
November 26th, 2012, 10:15 AM
Thx for the info I did not know that.

That was back before the NCAA decided you had to have your sports in one division or another and schools were free to mix & match. They were members of a D2 conference and played a schedule that included five D1AA teams (DelState, Howard, UMES, Grambling, and Southern), five D2 teams, and one D1A team (Tennessee State was a 1A Independent at the time, FAMU's only loss) and then went to the four team playoff where they beat Jackson State and UMass for the championship in the Pioneer Bowl, which has since been taken as a yearly D2 bowl game for the SIAC vs CIAA since the late 90's.

So basically, and oddly enough, they were in a D2 conference, won that D2 conference (they were SIAC Div 2 Champs, at the time they had Div 1 and Div 2 champs but they were in no way related to the NCAA divisions and now it is just East and West), played a schedule that was about 50% D2, but still made the 1AA playoffs and won the National Championship.

Sonic98
November 30th, 2012, 12:46 PM
Watched a little of Grambling/Southern today.

I know that the bayou classic is a historical game, and I assume it is played on the same Saturday every yr.

Does the SWAC not participate in the play-offs? assuming not ...then why?


Because leaders from a handful of schools are holding us back. We had a couple schools that could not go to the playoffs, so they basically decided what we had no reason to go at all. True we have not had much success in the playoffs but that's like any other sport where you don't face tough competition until playoff time. And let's not forget that for a long time, each conference had it's on style of play. That was for basketball or football and FCS or FBS. You get to the post season, and you play a team different from what you've seen all season. Thats why playing a a couple good OOC games helps you when playoff time comes. We used to play a D2 school and a MEAC school at JSU every year. And I think some years we even had 2 bye weeks. Heck if we spent some of that time playing tougher FCS opponents, we might have fared better once the playoffs rolled around. Plus, those teams would be in our minds when we prepared and recruited during the off-season.

Sonic98
November 30th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Because instead of being embarrassed like the MEAC, they chose to put on their own thing, cash in, and feel good about themselves.

Bayou Classic should have just been an 3 hr battle of the bands. 5 wins between the two teams, please.

I don't feel like BCU was embarrassed this past weekend. I think they held their own for a little while in the game and they have found some areas they need to improve on. They were not the only team that fell behind early in their game



Come on. To have the National Championship game relegated to ESPN2 while two teams who have a combined win total that is half of the top seeds in the tournament on a national network is awful.

That PVAM team that got creamed in Fargo beat both of the teams in the Bayou Classic, handily.

So, what is your point. I really don't see why some of the people on this site feel the need to hate. What are you mad about? No one on here is talking about the SWAC until non-SWAC posters bring it up. Why does it matter to you if the Bayou Classic is televised or how many people come to the game? Does it have any affect on your school or team ? Just let them have their game.


They've been playing the Turkey Day Classic since 1924 for crying outloud...let them have their tradition.

BTW, before you keep complaining, the Turkey Day Classic is rumored to be coming to an end...and I believe ASU has expressed an interest in competing in the playoffs.

I wish the game would go away. Call it something else and move it to another day. Alabama State should have the goal of going to the playoffs. I really think they and JSU should seriously consider starting a new conference with a couple teams that want to go to the playoffs and a few non-HBCU FCS teams, but I don't think any schools would really go for it. Personally I don't think the SCG is as big a money-maker as people make it out to be. We really don't need it.



I'm going to take a wild guess and say some of these HBCU bowls were born out of era of segregation. They continue because its a major cultural event\money maker in the south and overrules the fcs playoffs. I think its pretty obvious by the attendances numbers, ESPN contract, media hype and novels dedicated to the history of these bowls. Honestly, I think many FCS school would forgot the playoffs for that kinda of money and publicity. Imagine if the SDSU and NDSU rivalry over the overgrown door stopper got that kind of hype. I doubt their football teams would ever be in the FCS playoffs either. Its not all that different why FBS is so reluctant to give up its bowls(money) except these bowls have some historical meaning behind them.

"In the late 90′s, the economic impact of the Bayou Classic was $50 million dollars (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_22_16/ai_58614848/). In 2004, the number had jumped to $175 million (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20071004/ai_n21038911/). Last year, the dollar amount exceeded $200 million. (http://www.gram.edu/docs/ECONOMIC%20IMPACT%20gsu_final.pdf) Suffice it to say that the City of New Orleans would be less than eager to let the BC go that easily. Factor in what the participating schools stand to benefit, and it doesn’t make dollars or sense for the elite programs in the SWAC to abandon their money-making Classic plans."


Both the Ivy/SWAC do have supporters that wish to join the FCS playoffs ;however, there is always someone blocking it.

This is what some people don't understand who are so critical of Classic games. Personally, I do think the game should be a week earlier. I think that would only hurt it for a year or two and people would get used to it. I'm not sure if it would affect the TV broadcast or not. That being said we're constantly criticized for having Classics and having events surrounding our games. Is it a crime to bring a little bit of an economic boost to a city. If these cities and promoters had any sense, they get behind these Classics more and make it one of the major local events for the city even for people not even going to the game. For instance here in Memphis we have the Liberty Bowl and Memphis in May. There is no reason companies and the city can't jump aboard the Southern Heritage Classic train and try to make it another one of the big events in the city for the year. It's possible to have Classics, strong OOC opponents, and playoff games. None of those are exclusive.

UNHFan
November 30th, 2012, 12:53 PM
It wont be on next year I would think. NBC is on a year to year contract and the umbers are horrific
Overnight Ratings Flat For Bayou Classic: The Grambling/Southern Bayou Classic college football game drew a 0.7 overnight rating on NBC Saturday afternoon, even with last year (0.7) and down a tick from 2010 (0.8). The game has failed to draw at least 1% of metered market homes each year since 2006. (Weekend numbers from Sports Business Daily)

Sonic98
November 30th, 2012, 01:04 PM
It wont be on next year I would think. NBC is on a year to year contract and the umbers are horrific
Overnight Ratings Flat For Bayou Classic: The Grambling/Southern Bayou Classic college football game drew a 0.7 overnight rating on NBC Saturday afternoon, even with last year (0.7) and down a tick from 2010 (0.8). The game has failed to draw at least 1% of metered market homes each year since 2006. (Weekend numbers from Sports Business Daily)

Both teams suck this year and Southern hasn't been that great for a while. Let them have their game. Who else are they going to put on that day. If they put an FCS playoff game instead that day is it going to draw larger than 0.8. Probably the reason the numbers have gone down is both teams are not great and the teams haven't been on TV as much prior to this game as used to be back in the day.

Sonic98
November 30th, 2012, 04:41 PM
Here we go with this .... again.

If anyone has an issue with the SWAC's non participation in the FCS playoffs I beg of you to rally your local congressmen to have the entire conference disassociated with the FCS division; better yet the NCAA. I've given that simple explanation on multiple occasions since I've been a member and to date no one has taken me up on my offer.

Therefore, get over it... move around or kick rocks.

*Next is the Jet magazine, Miss Black America comment*

Either that or petition the NCAA to start the playoffs a week later.

major095
November 30th, 2012, 05:33 PM
What doesn't make sense is the fcs playoffs. College athletics is a business. How is it good business to participate in the playoffs and not only do you not make money, but you in many cases loose money? As much as I'd like to see the swac back in the playoffs i understand that if it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make sense. When a playoff game can at least get you what you'd make on a regular season home game, then it's a consideration. bama state had 29k there for their turkey day classic. start doing the math. why would they give that up?

the real problem the swac has is the 9 game mandate that has hamstrung them from a copetitiveness stand point. that has insulated them so well from the rest of fcs that they are no longer competitive. at least the next 2 years they have an extra game to play with. hopefully their AD's aren't too afraid to schedule a couple of games against the rest of fcs.. but it's time the rest of fcs visit a swac or meac campus. i wouldn't be willing to play all my games in fargo, or boone, or statesboro. we've got fans, more than most fcs schools in fact and they want home games in their season ticket packages. by the way. the last time troy came to alcorn (the only time) they left with a L. jax state got beat in montgomery. so let's play. come on down to the yard and let's see what's what. the swac needs to drop the 9 game mandate and play some home and home with the rest of fcs and beat them, but until there is some money in the playoffs it's a non-starter. I've been wondering why you guys play for free?

JSUBison
November 30th, 2012, 07:13 PM
What doesn't make sense is the fcs playoffs. College athletics is a business. How is it good business to participate in the playoffs and not only do you not make money, but you in many cases loose money? As much as I'd like to see the swac back in the playoffs i understand that if it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make sense. When a playoff game can at least get you what you'd make on a regular season home game, then it's a consideration. bama state had 29k there for their turkey day classic. start doing the math. why would they give that up?

the real problem the swac has is the 9 game mandate that has hamstrung them from a copetitiveness stand point. that has insulated them so well from the rest of fcs that they are no longer competitive. at least the next 2 years they have an extra game to play with. hopefully their AD's aren't too afraid to schedule a couple of games against the rest of fcs.. but it's time the rest of fcs visit a swac or meac campus. i wouldn't be willing to play all my games in fargo, or boone, or statesboro. we've got fans, more than most fcs schools in fact and they want home games in their season ticket packages. by the way. the last time troy came to alcorn (the only time) they left with a L. jax state got beat in montgomery. so let's play. come on down to the yard and let's see what's what. the swac needs to drop the 9 game mandate and play some home and home with the rest of fcs and beat them, but until there is some money in the playoffs it's a non-starter. I've been wondering why you guys play for free?

I agree, the NCAA should not be subsidizing the poor schools. Why should Montana, App, NDSU, JMU etc have money taken out of their pocket just because University of Poor Folk can't pay the cost of a trip? If flying a football team is too much of a hardship on a school's budget without the NCAA's welfare program, they got bigger issues sorry to say. But beyond that, I say the playoffs can be a money maker for some schools. After last years championship run by NDSU, I think donations to the athletic department increased by a couple of million bucks.

NDSU had a home/home series with MVSU a few years ago. I think South Dakota State played @ Southern 5 or 6 years ago, but it wasn't part of a home/home. In no particular order the SWAC needs to go back to 8 conference games, drop the SCG, participate in the playoffs, and quit playing the Tougaloo's, Tuskegee's and Rust Colleges of the world.

major095
November 30th, 2012, 11:21 PM
I agree, the NCAA should not be subsidizing the poor schools. Why should Montana, App, NDSU, JMU etc have money taken out of their pocket just because University of Poor Folk can't pay the cost of a trip? If flying a football team is too much of a hardship on a school's budget without the NCAA's welfare program, they got bigger issues sorry to say. But beyond that, I say the playoffs can be a money maker for some schools. After last years championship run by NDSU, I think donations to the athletic department increased by a couple of million bucks.

NDSU had a home/home series with MVSU a few years ago. I think South Dakota State played @ Southern 5 or 6 years ago, but it wasn't part of a home/home. In no particular order the SWAC needs to go back to 8 conference games, drop the SCG, participate in the playoffs, and quit playing the Tougaloo's, Tuskegee's and Rust Colleges of the world.

Your comments illustrate the problem. the only money for the playoffs you mentioned was from donations. I woder would that fly in fbs. I don't have to wonder.... lol it should be a financial boone to all who participate in the playoffs, not from a donation standpoint, but from a participation standpoint. as the visiting school if I'm not getting any money beyond airfair....why do I get on the plane? you call that a subsidy. no one in fbs is calling the payout to schools participaing in bowl games or the soon to be bcs playoffs a subsidy.

and again. why should alabama state or grambling or southern, give up 750k to a million dollars to participate in a playoff game where they might get airfare money, and possibly some donations from alumni if they should happen to win the championship or get close? in what world does that make sense? I want my school to win a national championship in football, but not if they had to give up nearly a million dollars to do so. is your school doing that ? if they are the AD and president need to be fired. by the way, the swac championship game draws more fans than most fcs playoff games, and the participating schools make money and certainly don't lose any (that would not be tolerated). I support the playoffs, but there is no way it should be a money loser for any school that plays a game. it makes more sense right now to schedule regular season games against the best fcs has to offer and try and win those games. at least you make more than airfare that way.

xcoach2
November 30th, 2012, 11:42 PM
Who gives a damn? The SWAC is baller imo.

Sonic98
December 3rd, 2012, 05:23 PM
What doesn't make sense is the fcs playoffs. College athletics is a business. How is it good business to participate in the playoffs and not only do you not make money, but you in many cases loose money? As much as I'd like to see the swac back in the playoffs i understand that if it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make sense. When a playoff game can at least get you what you'd make on a regular season home game, then it's a consideration. bama state had 29k there for their turkey day classic. start doing the math. why would they give that up?

the real problem the swac has is the 9 game mandate that has hamstrung them from a copetitiveness stand point. that has insulated them so well from the rest of fcs that they are no longer competitive. at least the next 2 years they have an extra game to play with. hopefully their AD's aren't too afraid to schedule a couple of games against the rest of fcs.. but it's time the rest of fcs visit a swac or meac campus. i wouldn't be willing to play all my games in fargo, or boone, or statesboro. we've got fans, more than most fcs schools in fact and they want home games in their season ticket packages. by the way. the last time troy came to alcorn (the only time) they left with a L. jax state got beat in montgomery. so let's play. come on down to the yard and let's see what's what. the swac needs to drop the 9 game mandate and play some home and home with the rest of fcs and beat them, but until there is some money in the playoffs it's a non-starter. I've been wondering why you guys play for free?

I'm not sure all the SWAC teams would lose money by going to the playoffs. It's my understanding that Albama State might be going away from the Turkey Day Classic at some point. If that is the case, I'm not sure they would lose any more money from having a regular season game that week than having a playoff game. The big argument against being in the playoffs is the same one from playing a playoff team in the regular season, loss of money and attendance. But to be perfectly honestly unless the game involves a Classic, a game between one of the top 3 games, homecoming, or a game between teams with a long history such as GSU, SU, and JSU, the attendance is going to be about what you get at any other FCS game. 3/11 games probably only have average attendance per year maybe 4. Heck one of our games is sometime against a D2 school. I really don't think one OOC game or one playoff game hurts, most of us that much. Now for GSU and SU it might be different.


I actually think more of us(FCS) would do better financially if the playoffs started a week later and the SWAC was at the level where more than one team could get in. The week later would mean more fans for the first round games, and I think the SWAC being more competitive would cause some of our larger fan bases to trickle over into FCS in general. Heck I think if the SWAC was going to the playoffs it would be to the advantage of the FCS in general to maybe see if we could all get together and organize a "Classics" type atmosphere around some of the playoff games. ESPN, SportsSouth, CSS, BET, TV1, Bounce, and maybe one other have all carried HBCU football games. Maybe we could get together and with the people who work out FCS TV deals and work out some better deals for all of us at least for OOC and playoff games involving SWAC/MEAC against other conferences.

Sonic98
December 6th, 2012, 03:08 PM
What doesn't make sense is the fcs playoffs. College athletics is a business. How is it good business to participate in the playoffs and not only do you not make money, but you in many cases loose money? As much as I'd like to see the swac back in the playoffs i understand that if it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make sense. When a playoff game can at least get you what you'd make on a regular season home game, then it's a consideration. bama state had 29k there for their turkey day classic. start doing the math. why would they give that up?

the real problem the swac has is the 9 game mandate that has hamstrung them from a copetitiveness stand point. that has insulated them so well from the rest of fcs that they are no longer competitive. at least the next 2 years they have an extra game to play with. hopefully their AD's aren't too afraid to schedule a couple of games against the rest of fcs.. but it's time the rest of fcs visit a swac or meac campus. i wouldn't be willing to play all my games in fargo, or boone, or statesboro. we've got fans, more than most fcs schools in fact and they want home games in their season ticket packages. by the way. the last time troy came to alcorn (the only time) they left with a L. jax state got beat in montgomery. so let's play. come on down to the yard and let's see what's what. the swac needs to drop the 9 game mandate and play some home and home with the rest of fcs and beat them, but until there is some money in the playoffs it's a non-starter. I've been wondering why you guys play for free?


I hadn't heard anything about an extra game