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Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 04:55 PM
FCS Playoffs: Some Teams Are More Equal Than Others


By David Coulson
Executive Editor
College Sports Journal

PHILADELPHIA, PA. After watching the brackets unfold for the NCAA Division I Football championship, I couldn't help but think of George Orwell's classic novel Animal Farm.

The phrase that stuck out was that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

In this case, some teams, some resumes and some wins and losses were apparently more equal than others this weekend in the minds of chairman Charlie Cobb and the Division I Football Committee.

When the 20-team field for the Football Championship Subdivision was unveiled, you couldn't help but find the committee's work as somewhat curious at best and absolutely brutal at worst.

To read more go here:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/606-fcs-playoffs-some-teams-are-more-equal-than-others-to-the-ncaa-division-i-committee

Nickels
November 20th, 2012, 05:07 PM
xcoffeex

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 06:00 PM
Nice comment from another SHSU fan. If everyone is making a big deal about strength of schedule, who did the Bearkats beat?

Gordon Shumway
November 20th, 2012, 06:46 PM
Keep grinding that axe. 17268

santosballnewhampshire
November 20th, 2012, 06:54 PM
Do you have personal vendetta with New Hampshire or just dislike us for some reason? Every comment you made all season is how overrated UNH is week by week.

WrenFGun
November 20th, 2012, 06:55 PM
FCS Playoffs: Some Teams Are More Equal Than Others


By David Coulson
Executive Editor
College Sports Journal

PHILADELPHIA, PA. — After watching the brackets unfold for the NCAA Division I Football championship, I couldn't help but think of George Orwell's classic novel Animal Farm.

The phrase that stuck out was that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

In this case, some teams, some resumes and some wins and losses were apparently more equal than others this weekend in the minds of chairman Charlie Cobb and the Division I Football Committee.

When the 20-team field for the Football Championship Subdivision was unveiled, you couldn't help but find the committee's work as somewhat curious at best and absolutely brutal at worst.

To read more go here:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/606-fcs-playoffs-some-teams-are-more-equal-than-others-to-the-ncaa-division-i-committee

I don't have any idea how you could call this journalism, honestly. I could call this writing for Towson's website. Are you going to die of a heart attack if UNH beats Wofford? I also didn't realize team defense mattered more than W-L record. Also, apparently UNH is the only team with a controversial victory? Goodness, UNH is so unique!

RichH2
November 20th, 2012, 07:09 PM
Nice article. A number of perplexing choices this yr. I might buy Lehigh if SHSU were left out also. But most surprising was including Ill.St. And leaving out Towson. No substantial reason for either. Conference politice.

Engineer86
November 20th, 2012, 07:15 PM
I agree that the committee and chair did not do a good job of explaining choices if at all. Watching Lehigh all year long I can't argue with the treatment of them, unfortunately it seemed like they never put it all together and there were other more worthy teams. That said it seemed like the decision making was inconsistent, so I can't disagree with your general premise.

UNH_Alum_In_CT
November 20th, 2012, 07:59 PM
You complain about others Mr. C, but you can't get your facts straight. There was no TD taken away from Richmond in that game. The call being complained about cost the Spiders a first down, we'll never know if they would have scored subsequently. And only slow motion instant replay showed it was a wrong call. It was hardly a call that was a blatant mistake at game speed. There were multiple officials on that call and after conferring, they called the receiver out of bounds. At game speed it looked like the Spider receiver's shoulder/arms were down out of bounds before the foot came down inbounds. Slow motion showed the foot down first. Don't blame the refs, blame the no replay policy. And BTW if Richmond had made the short field goal to end the first half, they probably would have won the game. They wouldn't have had to go for it on 4th down when they were stopped and UNH then kicked a FG.

Mr. C. has had a hair across his arse about UNH since his laptop froze in the Cowell Stadium press box back in the mid 90's.

james_lawfirm
November 20th, 2012, 08:19 PM
Good article! All you haters out there just need to do one thing: win & you can talk all you want. It seems to me that article was well written and accurate.

UNH: good luck with the version of the triple option Wofford runs. It's a bear.

WrenFGun
November 20th, 2012, 08:20 PM
You complain about others Mr. C, but you can't get your facts straight. There was no TD taken away from Richmond in that game. The call being complained about cost the Spiders a first down, we'll never know if they would have scored subsequently. And only slow motion instant replay showed it was a wrong call. It was hardly a call that was a blatant mistake at game speed. There were multiple officials on that call and after conferring, they called the receiver out of bounds. At game speed it looked like the Spider receiver's shoulder/arms were down out of bounds before the foot came down inbounds. Slow motion showed the foot down first. Don't blame the refs, blame the no replay policy. And BTW if Richmond had made the short field goal to end the first half, they probably would have won the game. They wouldn't have had to go for it on 4th down when they were stopped and UNH then kicked a FG.

Mr. C. has had a hair across his arse about UNH since his laptop froze in the Cowell Stadium press box back in the mid 90's.

Love it. I've been scratching my head over this supposed call that was a TD, and the only one I remember is the out of bounds play. I can't comment because I couldn't see it, but like I said, it's apparently the only bad call that happened all season to any team.

Sam_Kats
November 20th, 2012, 08:45 PM
Yawn.

Engineer86
November 20th, 2012, 08:50 PM
You complain about others Mr. C, but you can't get your facts straight. There was no TD taken away from Richmond in that game. The call being complained about cost the Spiders a first down, we'll never know if they would have scored subsequently. And only slow motion instant replay showed it was a wrong call. It was hardly a call that was a blatant mistake at game speed. There were multiple officials on that call and after conferring, they called the receiver out of bounds. At game speed it looked like the Spider receiver's shoulder/arms were down out of bounds before the foot came down inbounds. Slow motion showed the foot down first. Don't blame the refs, blame the no replay policy. And BTW if Richmond had made the short field goal to end the first half, they probably would have won the game. They wouldn't have had to go for it on 4th down when they were stopped and UNH then kicked a FG.

Mr. C. has had a hair across his arse about UNH since his laptop froze in the Cowell Stadium press box back in the mid 90's.

Wait did somebody say something about UNH and a controversial TD. xrotatehxxlolx

If it wasn't for that an 11-0 Lehigh would have been beating NDSU at home last year, and who knows what would have happend :D oh wait, we've been over this before I think.

UNHFootballAlum
November 20th, 2012, 08:57 PM
Everyone, The news cycle has moved on from the UNH shouldn't be in the dance this year. Nothing to see here move on

Twentysix
November 20th, 2012, 09:01 PM
Nice article. A number of perplexing choices this yr. I might buy Lehigh if SHSU were left out also. But most surprising was including Ill.St. And leaving out Towson. No substantial reason for either. Conference politice.

How is including Ill st surprising? Ill st > Lehigh.

LouiseBFree
November 20th, 2012, 09:18 PM
Will the 9 people that actually read this article please find something better to do? xcoffeex


Nice comment from another SHSU fan. If everyone is making a big deal about strength of schedule, who did the Bearkats beat?

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:03 PM
Will the 9 people that actually read this article please find something better to do? xcoffeex

Obviously, you know nothing about the traffic that CSJ generates. Nine people had read that piece within a couple of minutes of it being posted. I guess all of you UNH fans complaining about the column didn't actually read it?

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:05 PM
Yawn.

Such expansive responses from the SHSU crowd. Are all of your fans monosyllabic?

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:06 PM
How is including Ill st surprising? Ill st > Lehigh.

Illinois State lost to Missouri State and Southern Illinois for crying out loud. Losing to Missouri State is a 100 times worse than a loss to Colgate.

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:07 PM
Everyone, The news cycle has moved on from the UNH shouldn't be in the dance this year. Nothing to see here move on

Just because your news cycle has moved on doesn't mean anyone else's has. There are still a lot of fans ticked off about the 2012 bracket.

MNBISON
November 20th, 2012, 10:11 PM
Illinois State lost to Missouri State and Southern Illinois for crying out loud. Losing to Missouri State is a 100 times worse than a loss to Colgate.
Not so sure about that, MSU picked up a win over a one win USD team if I'm not mistaken; something Colgate couldn't manage to do. Just saying....

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:12 PM
I don't have any idea how you could call this journalism, honestly. I could call this writing for Towson's website. Are you going to die of a heart attack if UNH beats Wofford? I also didn't realize team defense mattered more than W-L record. Also, apparently UNH is the only team with a controversial victory? Goodness, UNH is so unique!

Every year, I have taken up the cause of teams that have gotten screwed out of playoff berths. I was the guy who came up with the term "Woofed" when Wofford got left out with nine wins and road victories over Georgia Southern and Appalachian State in 2002. I've defended teams like Cal Poly, Lehigh and Youngstown State over the years, among others.

Have fun trying to stop the Wofford triple option. If you couldn't stop Terrance West, what are you going to do against Erik Breitenstein?

Go...gate
November 20th, 2012, 10:16 PM
Interesting comparison of Lehigh 2012 to Bucknell 1997. That was a great Bucknell club that lost only once and absolutely deserved an at-large.

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:16 PM
Mr. C. has had a hair across his arse about UNH since his laptop froze in the Cowell Stadium press box back in the mid 90's.

If I remember right, Dexter Coakley ended that overtime game in 1994 real fast. I like New Hampshire and, as I've said many times, have a tremendous amount of respect for Sean McDonnell. We may have the two best coaches in FCS squaring off in the second round with New Hampshire playing Mike Ayers and Wofford. But UNH didn't deserve to be in this playoff field. Now Cowell Stadium is a place I'd just as soon avoid ... The last time I was there, the water in the locker rooms didn't work. You couldn't even get a drink of water after the game.

Go...gate
November 20th, 2012, 10:17 PM
Not so sure about that, MSU picked up a win over a one win USD team if I'm not mistaken; something Colgate couldn't manage to do. Just saying....

Colgate won its conference. Next case.

MNBISON
November 20th, 2012, 10:21 PM
Colgate won its conference. Next case.
Good for them and congrats on making the playoffs. Still doesn't change the fact that they lost to USD. Mr.C said losing to Colgate is better than losing to MSU and I'm not so sure if that's the case.

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:24 PM
Interesting comparison of Lehigh 2012 to Bucknell 1997. That was a great Bucknell club that lost only once and absolutely deserved an at-large.

Was anyone at that end of the regular season game between Colgate and Bucknell? Colgate won 48-14.

MR. CHICKEN
November 20th, 2012, 10:24 PM
If I remember right, Dexter Coakley ended that overtime game in 1994 real fast. I like New Hampshire and, as I've said many times, have a tremendous amount of respect for Sean McDonnell. We may have the two best coaches in FCS squaring off in the second round with New Hampshire playing Mike Ayers and Wofford. But UNH didn't deserve to be in this playoff field. Now Cowell Stadium is a place I'd just as soon avoid ... The last time I was there, the water in the locker rooms didn't work. You couldn't even get a drink of water after the game.

17270......COMES IN BOTTLES...YA KNOW.......JES' PLUCKIN' YER.... NERVE C.......DUH CHICKEN LURKS......JES' TRYIN' TA PLAY...KEEP-A-WAY.... FROM KEELER....AS HEADS R' A-ROLLIN'..IN NEW-ARK...............xpopcornx.....BRAWK/OBAMA/BIDEN!!!

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 10:27 PM
Good for them and congrats on making the playoffs. Still doesn't change the fact that they lost to USD. Mr.C said losing to Colgate is better than losing to MSU and I'm not so sure if that's the case.

So suddenly the entire MVFC is better than Colgate and the entire Patriot League because Colgate stubbed its toe in one game in the second week of the season? If anyone knows anything about Colgate it is that the Raiders always start the season slowly. I doubt that South Dakota would have come close to beating the Colgate club that rolled through the Patriot League and neither would have Missouri State.

straightshooter
November 20th, 2012, 10:35 PM
I've got no dog in this fight, but I do find it difficult to see how any FCS team who gave up 64 points twice to fellow FCS opponents could be given a playoff slot. I get the auto qualifer deal when applicable, but giving up 64 two different times (once at home) makes me wonder what the committee was thinking.

MR. CHICKEN
November 20th, 2012, 10:41 PM
I've got no dog in this fight, but I do find it difficult to see how any FCS team who gave up 64 points twice to fellow FCS opponents could be given a playoff slot. I get the auto qualifer deal when applicable, but giving up 64 two different times (once at home) makes me wonder what the committee was thinking.

OR.....DRINKIN'......AWQ!!!!!

McNeese75
November 20th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Sour grapes and your east coast bias is showing C xcoffeex

BigHouseClosedEnd
November 20th, 2012, 10:49 PM
I love how Coulson correctly points out that 8-3 Richmond was jobbed at UNH in early October and Then uses that fact to point out that 7-4 Towson deserves a bid. Makes perfect sense.

Just Dave being Dave.

X-Factor
November 20th, 2012, 11:00 PM
Illinois State lost to Missouri State and Southern Illinois for crying out loud. Losing to Missouri State is a 100 times worse than a loss to Colgate.

This is such an ignorant comment. No wonder everyone here thinks your a tool!

MNBISON
November 20th, 2012, 11:03 PM
So suddenly the entire MVFC is better than Colgate and the entire Patriot League because Colgate stubbed its toe in one game in the second week of the season? If anyone knows anything about Colgate it is that the Raiders always start the season slowly. I doubt that South Dakota would have come close to beating the Colgate club that rolled through the Patriot League and neither would have Missouri State.

Well yeah, pretty much, well maybe not WIU. :D I'm not so sure about MSU, I think they would do just fine in the Patriot League, but that's just my take on it.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 20th, 2012, 11:06 PM
Well yeah, pretty much, well maybe not WIU. :D I'm not so sure about MSU, I think they would do just fine in the Patriot League, but that's just my take on it.

Somewhere, Dick Biddle is sitting in his office, game film on in the background, and smiling. Really smiling.

UNHWildcat18
November 20th, 2012, 11:43 PM
Well, whoever wrote this article likes to eat corn the long way....

Yes towson deserves to be in the dance, does UNH? yes does Richmond? yes, some stuff just doesn't work out.. I think the loss to JMU was the real towson killer, JMU beat no one good this year.. besides towson...

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 11:44 PM
This is such an ignorant comment. No wonder everyone here thinks your a tool!

Oh really. Better get your Sears Craftsman set out. Have you come out of your igloo long enough to ever even see Colgate play? Colgate will likely be playing in the second round of the playoffs. Missouri State won three games (though the Bears must be a great team, because they almost beat the Bison).

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 11:48 PM
Well, whoever wrote this article likes to eat corn the long way....

Yes towson deserves to be in the dance, does UNH? yes does Richmond? yes, some stuff just doesn't work out.. I think the loss to JMU was the real towson killer, JMU beat no one good this year.. besides towson...

And UNH beat no one, but Richmond.

JMU just missed a share of the CAA title by playing one bad quarter against Old Dominion. The Dukes were not a bad team this season, they just got banged up going against the CAA and were not the same team at the end of the as they were at the beginning. I attended the JMU-Towson game. It was one of the best defensive games I've seen in FCS in several years. But then what would UNH know about defense.

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 11:48 PM
Somewhere, Dick Biddle is sitting in his office, game film on in the background, and smiling. Really smiling.

I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen Dick Biddle smile. I can't think of anytime.

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 11:50 PM
Sour grapes and your east coast bias is showing C xcoffeex

When you don't have any other argument to throw out there, use "East Coast Bias." How does a California boy come down with East Coast Bias?

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 11:52 PM
I love how Coulson correctly points out that 8-3 Richmond was jobbed at UNH in early October and Then uses that fact to point out that 7-4 Towson deserves a bid. Makes perfect sense.

Just Dave being Dave.

Well, at 9-2 with a win over UNH, Richmond would have been sitting in the playoffs with the CAA auto bid. Did you not see earlier in the article where it was mentioned that Richmond was one of the teams with a beef about not getting in?

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 11:54 PM
OR.....DRINKIN'......AWQ!!!!!

Did Henrietta slip them something at the Blue Hen tailgate? Missed you Saturday at the Tub. My daughter was taking pictures for me and wanted to meet Mr. Chicken in person.

Mr. C
November 20th, 2012, 11:56 PM
17270......COMES IN BOTTLES...YA KNOW.......JES' PLUCKIN' YER.... NERVE C.......DUH CHICKEN LURKS......JES' TRYIN' TA PLAY...KEEP-A-WAY.... FROM KEELER....AS HEADS R' A-ROLLIN'..IN NEW-ARK...............xpopcornx.....BRAWK/OBAMA/BIDEN!!!

Whose heads are rolling? It is a comforting thought to know Mr. Chicken is lurking around.

CopperCat
November 21st, 2012, 12:06 AM
Sour grapes and your east coast bias is showing C xcoffeex

I'm going to agree with this. Not a single mention of any big sky team, other than the illustrious Montana grizzlies who aren't even in the field.

And I did read it. Twice to be exact. East coast bias is alive and well.

344Johnson
November 21st, 2012, 12:08 AM
Illinois State lost to Missouri State and Southern Illinois for crying out loud. Losing to Missouri State is a 100 times worse than a loss to Colgate.


Missouri State beat South Dakota who beat Colgate.

mmiller_34
November 21st, 2012, 12:12 AM
Missouri State beat Western Illinois who beat South Dakota who beat Colgate.

FIFY

Tubakat2014
November 21st, 2012, 12:18 AM
Such expansive responses from the SHSU crowd. Are all of your fans monosyllabic?

Why should we have to waste time and energy to defend our team's inclusion in the field? It's not like SHSU fans had any influence on the selection committee. I highly doubt they took last year's performance into account, because I feel that we would have been seeded in that case. Let me be clear though- I am not saying we deserved a seed. I believe that our record and bracket placement match up quite nicely. I simply don't see your point in picking on the committee for placing SHSU where they did. You say that the Southland is "very" weak, but by mentioning Lehigh's exclusion in the same section, you subtly imply that the Patriot League is stronger. I disagree, but let's meet in the middle and assume the SLC and Patriot are on equal footing. SHSU beat 5 out 7 conference opponents by at least 35 points. The only conference loss, of course, coming to a hot Central Arkansas team on the nasty, not-made-for-TV stripes. Lehigh has several squeakers littering their schedule with no signature win (sorry, not buying Liberty as a high quality win- good win, but too close). SHSU may not have a signature win, but our average margin of victory against FCS opponents is quite good. When comparing the one FCS loss both Lehigh and SHSU have, I feel like a close loss to UCA is a little better than a close loss to Colgate. That said, "moral victories" are still losses- just making a point.

Again, I want to be clear- I do not believe Lehigh should have been kept out of the playoffs. A 10-win Lehigh belongs in the playoffs without a doubt, I just don't agree with your implication that SHSU should have been shafted to allow them in. But hey, that's just my opinion, and I freely admit that I have nowhere near the resume to be arguing this kind of stuff as you do.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 01:07 AM
Why should we have to waste time and energy to defend our team's inclusion in the field? It's not like SHSU fans had any influence on the selection committee. I highly doubt they took last year's performance into account, because I feel that we would have been seeded in that case. Let me be clear though- I am not saying we deserved a seed. I believe that our record and bracket placement match up quite nicely. I simply don't see your point in picking on the committee for placing SHSU where they did. You say that the Southland is "very" weak, but by mentioning Lehigh's exclusion in the same section, you subtly imply that the Patriot League is stronger. I disagree, but let's meet in the middle and assume the SLC and Patriot are on equal footing. SHSU beat 5 out 7 conference opponents by at least 35 points. The only conference loss, of course, coming to a hot Central Arkansas team on the nasty, not-made-for-TV stripes. Lehigh has several squeakers littering their schedule with no signature win (sorry, not buying Liberty as a high quality win- good win, but too close). SHSU may not have a signature win, but our average margin of victory against FCS opponents is quite good. When comparing the one FCS loss both Lehigh and SHSU have, I feel like a close loss to UCA is a little better than a close loss to Colgate. That said, "moral victories" are still losses- just making a point.

Again, I want to be clear- I do not believe Lehigh should have been kept out of the playoffs. A 10-win Lehigh belongs in the playoffs without a doubt, I just don't agree with your implication that SHSU should have been shafted to allow them in. But hey, that's just my opinion, and I freely admit that I have nowhere near the resume to be arguing this kind of stuff as you do.

Winning against teams with losing records and you want to talk about margin of victory? I didn't say that the Patriot League was better than the Southland Conference, but the fact is there were not many out-of-conference wins for the Southland this season. SHSU's only ones were Texas Southern and Incarnate Word, SFA beat SW Oklahoma, Northwestern State beat Arkansas-Monticello and Mississippi Valley State, Lamar beat Prairie View, Langston and McMurry, Nichols State beat Evangel. SELU beat no one out of conference and still managed to finish third. That's three SWAC wins and six wins over sub-D-I teams. Central Arkansas is the one shining light, with a win against OVC champion Eastern Illinois and Murray State and a competitive loss to Ole Miss, to go with a win over Bacone College. McNeese State had that opening-night win over Middle Tennessee State and wins over Weber State and McMurry, along with a tight loss to transitioning UTSA. So the final tally is one FBS win, two wins over the OVC, one win over the Big Sky, three SWAC victories and eight sub-D-I wins. It would be hard to find a conference that did worse than that in 2012. Maybe the SWAC, or the PFL?

And on that win against Liberty, the Flames have one of the top facilities in FCS in Williams Stadium and Liberty defends its turf about as well as anyone. The Flames lost one game at home to JMU on a last-second field goal last year and lost to Lehigh and a Norfolk State squad that was ranked at the time before injuries decimated them this year. Not many teams go in there and beat Liberty at home. Three home losses in three years since the stadium was renovated.

Now I would have swapped UNH for Towson and Illinois State for Lehigh, but SHSU would have definitely been on my bubble, if someone wanted to make a case for another 8-3 team like Richmond, Northern Arizona, or Eastern Kentucky. I would have gone with Sam Houston State, as I noted in my weekend column before the selections were made. But Sam Houston State would have been the 20th team into the field.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 01:10 AM
I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen Dick Biddle smile. I can't think of anytime.

He did in that press conference November 10th, let me tell you. It was a quick one, but a smile nonetheless.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 01:12 AM
Missouri State beat South Dakota who beat Colgate.

You can play that game out to a big enough degree where you could probably have Missouri State winning the national title.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 01:24 AM
He did in that press conference November 10th, let me tell you. It was a quick one, but a smile nonetheless.

Dick Biddle is the curmudgeon of FCS.

seantaylor
November 21st, 2012, 02:15 AM
Coulson pees sitting down.

UNHFootballAlum
November 21st, 2012, 02:57 AM
Just because your news cycle has moved on doesn't mean anyone else's has. There are still a lot of fans ticked off about the 2012 bracket.

Do some investigative reporting and find out why the committee chose UNH and Towson did not get in and SHSU got an invite. Bring something new to this discussion and you'll get much less push back from other AGSers. Your opinions of why certain did or did not get in is getting old. Be a journalist and offer us something that has not been discussed to death. When any news organization offers the same talking points for the 3rd straight day they get PO'd viewers, listeners, or readers and lose credibility.

WileECoyote06
November 21st, 2012, 06:23 AM
Illinois State lost to Missouri State and Southern Illinois for crying out loud. Losing to Missouri State is a 100 times worse than a loss to Colgate.

I used this argument when comparing Indiana State, Illinois State, and SDSU's resume. If Indiana State had beaten Youngstown, I think Ill St would have been left out.

NoDak 4 Ever
November 21st, 2012, 06:35 AM
Oh really. Better get your Sears Craftsman set out. Have you come out of your igloo long enough to ever even see Colgate play? Colgate will likely be playing in the second round of the playoffs. Missouri State won three games (though the Bears must be a great team, because they almost beat the Bison).

Colgate will be in the 2nd round by virtue of a win against Wagner. They will get demolished at Eastern Washington. Be real here.

WrenFGun
November 21st, 2012, 07:05 AM
And UNH beat no one, but Richmond.

JMU just missed a share of the CAA title by playing one bad quarter against Old Dominion. The Dukes were not a bad team this season, they just got banged up going against the CAA and were not the same team at the end of the as they were at the beginning. I attended the JMU-Towson game. It was one of the best defensive games I've seen in FCS in several years. But then what would UNH know about defense.

Again. Just let me know where "defense" is listed in the selection criteria. Then explain to me why ODU got a seed if it is. Your beef with UNH is aggravating considering the fact that the committee didn't have them as the last team in...hell, they didn't even have them at the SECOND to last team in. Stony Brook beats 5 cupcakes in the big south and somehow they don't get a comment? And I'm tired of hearing it about Army ... UNH beat Army a few years ago and it wasn't even considered a quality win ... it is now?

WrenFGun
November 21st, 2012, 07:09 AM
I thought UNH was 50/50 to get in, but it's aggravating that this article fails to consider that the committee simply REFUSED to consider a 4 loss team as an at-large. It's very clear. You cannot hold UNH accountable for the committee refusing to consider it. And again, UR got a bad call on a play that was ruled out of bounds at Richmond's TWENTY FIVE YARD LINE. YES. THEY WERE 75 YARDS from a TD. It's not like it was the last play of the game.

And again, why anyone is surprised that UNH got in over UR is beyond me. It's very obvious. I've asked this in ten threads, but someone let me know who should be in over UNH if Towson was rendered ineligible?

mgbison
November 21st, 2012, 07:11 AM
Who has Lehigh beat? At least ISUr has some signature wins (ISUb, YSU, EMU). Plus, almost every conference rating system has the MVFC as #1 conference. It would be a joke if the toughest conference and a conference rated towards the middle to bottom each got the same amount of teams into the playoffs.

Lehigh has been at this long enough, they know if they don't win the Patriot AQ that they aren't getting into the playoffs. Also, they can't be scheduling cupcakes in the ooh games if they want their 10 wins to be taken seriously.

MR. CHICKEN
November 21st, 2012, 07:21 AM
Whose heads are rolling? It is a comforting thought to know Mr. Chicken is lurking around.

17271.....FIRST TA GO....OFFENSIVE CO-ORDINATOR.....HOFHER........NEXT?????........xdont knowx.......BRAWK!

KEELER DIDN'T CONFIRM/DENY...ON RADIO SHOW LAST NIGHT........K. TRESOLINI STIRRED IT UP...IN ARTICLE DIS WEEK'S NEWS JOURNAL.....AWK!


http://blogs.delawareonline.com/collegesports/2012/11/19/hofher-apparently-out-as-hens-seek-improved-o/?nclick_check=1

busybee14
November 21st, 2012, 07:43 AM
Colgate will be in the 2nd round by virtue of a win against Wagner. They will get demolished at Eastern Washington. Be real here.

Gate may not want to count the win just yet.Im not sure why you would think this is such a automatic win.While not known as well nationally this Seahawk squad quietly has one of the top rated Defensive units and Special teams in the nation and +/- on turnovers is crazy good.This is a solid team that can make some noise.Just sayin....

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 07:52 AM
Great information in the article Mr. C and really good points regarding the SLC's weak OOC record in the thread. Especially regarding Towson, and UNH's A.L. and getting a first round bye.

But I still think you're comparing apples to oranges a bit regarding Lehigh. It's similar to comparing an elite FCS power conference team to low-end FBS mid-major. Can upsets happen? Of course, but over the course of an entire season, the scholarship differential and weekly grind of a superior conference will wear down a team like Missouri State. I'm guessing even in a down year like this, they still have a greater depth of talent than anyone in the PL.

You also mentioned several times how difficult it is to win at Liberty? It looks like a terrific stadium with great attendance numbers and I'm sure it's difficult for Big South and PL teams to win there. But Liberty goes out and gets beat soundly by a very mediocre Montana this year. What are Liberty's quality wins at home over the years? Who have they beat.

SHSU's run last year notwithstanding, I still say you have 4 power conferences, who deserve - in most years - to gobble up the majority, if not all of the A.L.'s. The SLC and OVC in certain years might deserve to be in the discussion for one. But until the rest start funding scholarships and scheduling better OOC, they should remain one bid conferences.

Kramden
November 21st, 2012, 07:59 AM
Well yeah, pretty much, well maybe not WIU. :D I'm not so sure about MSU, I think they would do just fine in the Patriot League, but that's just my take on it.

MNBISON - you're a moron.

Mattymc727
November 21st, 2012, 08:07 AM
ODU gave up 61 points in a game, is anyone saying they dont belong because that defense gave up so many points? I think Towson got robbed too, but to say UNH shouldnt be in because of bad defense is ridiculous. I thought it was the 20 best teams not the 20 best defenses. Why dont we ask Delaware how good the UNH defense can be. UNH had two really bad games, and give credit to Towson and ODU for having great offenses, but this is just crazy talk.

Also, Richmond never had a touchdown taken away in that game. They had a first down called incomplete on the Richmond side of the field. It was a bad call, but there is no replay, and it still doesnt prove that Richmond should have won that game.

ysubigred
November 21st, 2012, 08:24 AM
So suddenly the entire MVFC is better than Colgate and the entire Patriot League because Colgate stubbed its toe in one game in the second week of the season? If anyone knows anything about Colgate it is that the Raiders always start the season slowly. I doubt that South Dakota would have come close to beating the Colgate club that rolled through the Patriot League and neither would have Missouri State.

LOL!! Insert Colgate into the MVFC for a whole year and we would be talking about a 3-8 at best Colgate. South Dakota was playing much better football to end the year also so becareful what you wish for.

CHIP72
November 21st, 2012, 08:39 AM
(Just posting after reading the article and the posts back on Page 1.)

The issue with New Hampshire isn't that they beat Richmond on a disputed touchdown, it's that they 1) didn't have any good road wins when Towson had two such wins (one of them at UNH by 29 points) and Richmond had one, and 2) played a weaker schedule in-conference than the other CAA contenders and subsequently only beat one good team (Richmond) all year while both Towson and Richmond both beat two good teams (Villanova and UNH in Towson's case, Villanova and James Madison in Richmond's case). On top of that, Towson won its last 4 games, 3 of them on the road and 2 of them against good teams (the aforementioned Villanova and UNH wins). Both Towson and Richmond had stronger profiles than New Hampshire and deserved to go to the playoffs more than UNH. (Villanova also had a stronger profile than UNH and deserved the bye more than UNH.) When comparing Towson and Richmond, I think Towson had the stronger profile and should have been the 3rd team in the CAA pecking order while Richmond should have been the 4th team in that pecking order.

I hadn't looked at the Sam Houston State profile previously, but it sure seems like Towson has a stronger argument than the Bearkats. SHSU has a profile that combines the worst aspects of Towson's profile (4 overall losses) with the worst aspects of Lehigh's profile (weak conference, didn't win the auto bid from that conference). I'm not sure how SHSU is a deserving playoff team relative to some other teams.

Bison Fan in NW MN
November 21st, 2012, 08:39 AM
So suddenly the entire MVFC is better than Colgate and the entire Patriot League because Colgate stubbed its toe in one game in the second week of the season? If anyone knows anything about Colgate it is that the Raiders always start the season slowly. I doubt that South Dakota would have come close to beating the Colgate club that rolled through the Patriot League and neither would have Missouri State.


Well, then Colgate should roll right into the finals.......

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 08:48 AM
But I still think you're comparing apples to oranges a bit regarding Lehigh. It's similar to comparing an elite FCS power conference team to low-end FBS mid-major. Can upsets happen? Of course, but over the course of an entire season, the scholarship differential and weekly grind of a superior conference will wear down a team like Missouri State. I'm guessing even in a down year like this, they still have a greater depth of talent than anyone in the PL.

Sir, you are truly an idiot.

Bison Fan in NW MN
November 21st, 2012, 08:50 AM
Sir, you are truly an idiot.

No he is not.

Missouri State has a pretty good defense. I would take them over any PL team.

Mattymc727
November 21st, 2012, 08:52 AM
What is this phantom disputed touchdown everyone keeps mentioning during the Richmond UNH game? Now we have to make stuff up to argue against UNH in the playoffs? Christ, I thought the election was over

Sam_Kats
November 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM
Such expansive responses from the SHSU crowd. Are all of your fans monosyllabic?

No sense in wasting breath. Beauty of FCS is it will all play out on the field. You all said the same thing last year. "Didn't play anyone." That was silenced & so will this argument.

Some people just NEED to find things to bit(h about. Most are women.

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM
Sir, you are truly an idiot.

You know, before I read this KICK *** rebuttal I could at least admire Lehigh for it's educational standards. Now...I'm glad I received a degree from a directional teachers college instead of some academically over-rated PL. :D

OK, here's another one for ya. The 4th and 5th best teams in the BSC each had FBS wins against the Pac-12 and MWFC.
Neither made the playoffs. The 10th best teams lost on the road to playoff bound SDSU 12-6. Is there anything...anything in the PL's schedule that even comes close to disputing the disparity?

xrotatehx

LouiseBFree
November 21st, 2012, 09:10 AM
A "professional" journalist, ladies and gentlemen!!!!


Such expansive responses from the SHSU crowd. Are all of your fans monosyllabic?

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 09:14 AM
And one more thing...

In case I get accused of power conference elitism and hating, I liked it when Lehigh beat UNI and Towson in the playoffs, and if it was a 24 win team this year, I would have voted them in. Hell, I would even support a 32 team playoff. The more games, the more diversity of conferences and match ups, the better.

Lehigh simply wasn't one of the 10 most deserving teams for an at-large this year. That's all.

WrenFGun
November 21st, 2012, 09:20 AM
I'll put it simply. If Richmond was CLEARLY better than UNH, they should have beaten UNH when they played.

And for all the malarkey about Towson finishing strong, UNH finished the season 6-1. If that's weak, there should be a lot of teams out of the playoffs.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 09:28 AM
I'll put it simply. If Richmond was CLEARLY better than UNH, they should have beaten UNH when they played.

And for all the malarkey about Towson finishing strong, UNH finished the season 6-1. If that's weak, there should be a lot of teams out of the playoffs.

Funny. Lehigh finished 6-1 as well.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 09:29 AM
But I still think you're comparing apples to oranges a bit regarding Lehigh. It's similar to comparing an elite FCS power conference team to low-end FBS mid-major. Can upsets happen? Of course, but over the course of an entire season, the scholarship differential and weekly grind of a superior conference will wear down a team like Missouri State. I'm guessing even in a down year like this, they still have a greater depth of talent than anyone in the PL.


In case I get accused of power conference elitism and hating....

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

WileECoyote06
November 21st, 2012, 09:31 AM
And one more thing...

In case I get accused of power conference elitism and hating, I liked it when Lehigh beat UNI and Towson in the playoffs, and if it was a 24 win team this year, I would have voted them in. Hell, I would even support a 32 team playoff. The more games, the more diversity of conferences and match ups, the better.

Lehigh simply wasn't one of the 10 most deserving teams for an at-large this year. That's all.

And Stony Brook was? Based off a win over Army?

Although I have no problem with the selections and pairings, they do seem to be horribly inconsistent.

Since we're playing the transitivity game:

Liberty > Stony Brook
Lehigh > Liberty

Therefore

Lehigh > Stony Brook

Yet Stony Brook received a bid.

Liberty lost to Norfolk State at home, which finished 9th in our standings. If the MEAC is looked upon as a weak conference, then what is that saying about Stony Brook?

Don't tase me Stony Brook fans. . .I'm just stating an opinion.

ASUMountaineer
November 21st, 2012, 09:37 AM
Every year, I have taken up the cause of teams that have gotten screwed out of playoff berths. I was the guy who came up with the term "Woofed" when Wofford got left out with nine wins and road victories over Georgia Southern and Appalachian State in 2002. I've defended teams like Cal Poly, Lehigh and Youngstown State over the years, among others.

Have fun trying to stop the Wofford triple option. If you couldn't stop Terrance West, what are you going to do against Erik Breitenstein?

CAA! CAA! CAA! Does anything else matter?

This stale joke brought to you by ASUMountaineer from the year 2008. xthumbsupx

CHIP72
November 21st, 2012, 09:37 AM
I'll put it simply. If Richmond was CLEARLY better than UNH, they should have beaten UNH when they played.

And for all the malarkey about Towson finishing strong, UNH finished the season 6-1. If that's weak, there should be a lot of teams out of the playoffs.

I don't know if the second comment was directed at me, but obviously UNH finishing 6-1 is a point in their favor. The flip side is 1) those 6 wins included wins against 2 bad teams (Rhode Island and Georgia State), 1 poor team (William & Mary), and 2 so-so teams (Maine and Delaware) and 2) the one UNH loss was at home against another playoff contender by 29 points.

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 09:40 AM
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Yep...one person's "elitism" is everyone else's reality. xblahx

WrenFGun
November 21st, 2012, 09:40 AM
Funny. Lehigh finished 6-1 as well.

They did. I had Lehigh in over SBU. I actually had Wofford (7 DI wins) out and Richmond in over them, as well.

I don't see any compelling argument for SBU to get in over Lehigh.

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 09:42 AM
And Stony Brook was? Based off a win over Army?

Although I have no problem with the selections and pairings, they do seem to be horribly inconsistent.

Since we're playing the transitivity game:

Liberty > Stony Brook
Lehigh > Liberty

Therefore

Lehigh > Stony Brook

Yet Stony Brook received a bid.

Liberty lost to Norfolk State at home, which finished 9th in our standings. If the MEAC is looked upon as a weak conference, then what is that saying about Stony Brook?

Don't tase me Stony Brook fans. . .I'm just stating an opinion.

SB was a bubble team and, like Lehigh, lived off an over-inflated ranking most of the year. But yes, the Army win is what got them in. As for the transitive, it may not prove anything but it's still very instructive.

CHIP72
November 21st, 2012, 09:42 AM
And Stony Brook was? Based off a win over Army?

Although I have no problem with the selections and pairings, they do seem to be horribly inconsistent.

Since we're playing the transitivity game:

Liberty > Stony Brook
Lehigh > Liberty

Therefore

Lehigh > Stony Brook

Yet Stony Brook received a bid.

Liberty lost to Norfolk State at home, which finished 9th in our standings. If the MEAC is looked upon as a weak conference, then what is that saying about Stony Brook?

Don't tase me Stony Brook fans. . .I'm just stating an opinion.

Conversely, Stony Brook beat Colgate and Colgate beat Lehigh. Also, Stony Brook lost by 11 points at Syracuse while current #20 in Division I-A Louisville lost by 19 points at Syracuse. You can play this game with every team.

The above is why it is important to look at the overall body of work and not focus solely on the results of one game. All the teams competing for Division I-AA playoff spots this season played more than one game.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 09:45 AM
Yep...one person's "elitism" is everyone else's reality. xblahx

Don't worry, Mitt, your secret is safe with me.

ysubigred
November 21st, 2012, 09:45 AM
Conversely, Stony Brook beat Colgate and Colgate beat Lehigh. Also, Stony Brook lost by 11 points at Syracuse while current #20 in Division I-A Louisville lost by 19 points at Syracuse. You can play this game with every team.

The above is why it is important to look at the overall body of work and not focus solely on the results of one game. All the teams competing for Division I-AA playoff spots this season played more than one game.

THIS ^^ YSU beats Pitt soundly in Pittsburgh... Pitt takes #1 ND to the brink in South Bend and should have won (no OT). So some in Penguin land had YSU penciled into the playoff's.

xtroublex This is why the playoffs should be the best 20-24 team's period. Auto bid's just for winning a weak conference is garbage. Let the conferences reward the conference champs and lets get the best teams to the playoff's!! xtwocentsx

ASUMountaineer
November 21st, 2012, 09:49 AM
Sir, you are truly an idiot.

What a classy and substantive post. Congrats, LFN. xthumbsupx

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 09:55 AM
Don't worry, Mitt, your secret is safe with me.

O.K.!

CHIP72
November 21st, 2012, 09:55 AM
THIS ^^ YSU beats Pitt soundly in Pittsburgh... Pitt takes #1 ND to the brink in South Bend and should have won (no OT). So some in Penguin land had YSU penciled into the playoff's.

xtroublex This is why the playoffs should be the best 20-24 team's period. Auto bid's just for winning a weak conference is garbage. Let the conferences reward the conference champs and lets get the best teams to the playoff's!! xtwocentsx

The problem Youngstown State has is it didn't do well enough in its conference games, finishing in a tie for 6th in the MVC. (YSU's win over Pitt does speak very well for the MVC though.) It's the same issue mid-majors in college basketball face when they post a couple of really good non-conference wins over high-profile conference teams but then finish 3rd or 4th in their own conference. Drexel in (I think) 2007 comes to mind immediately when I think about the NCAA basketball tournament. YSU probably gets in the playoffs if their in-conference record is better even with a relatively pedestrian overall record.

THE HERD
November 21st, 2012, 10:13 AM
Good article! All you haters out there just need to do one thing: win & you can talk all you want. It seems to me that article was well written and accurate.

UNH: good luck with the version of the triple option Wofford runs. It's a bear.


I'm thinking the Terriers put up about 350-400 yds rushing on this UNH D.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 10:26 AM
3-8 Missouri State: "Sleeping Giant"
5-6 Georgetown: "You should be blowing them out every week"

Elitism? Naaaaaaaah.

ysubigred
November 21st, 2012, 10:39 AM
The problem Youngstown State has is it didn't do well enough in its conference games, finishing in a tie for 6th in the MVC. (YSU's win over Pitt does speak very well for the MVC though.) It's the same issue mid-majors in college basketball face when they post a couple of really good non-conference wins over high-profile conference teams but then finish 3rd or 4th in their own conference. Drexel in (I think) 2007 comes to mind immediately when I think about the NCAA basketball tournament. YSU probably gets in the playoffs if their in-conference record is better even with a relatively pedestrian overall record.

I didn't expect YSU in just on the Pitt "W"..

The MVFC is a meat grinder especially for Youngstown. The travel alone to these very tough and remote locations wear on a team especially on a low budget. This year YSU logged in travel over 6500 miles in conference travel alone... well they fly out here right? Yes.. After the team lands at the airport then the bus ride is a usually a few hours on top of the flight. No excuse but this is a big factor to why I feel YSU has a slight disadvantage in the MVFC.

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 10:45 AM
3-8 Missouri State: "Sleeping Giant"
5-6 Georgetown: "You should be blowing them out every week"

Elitism? Naaaaaaaah.

Is a not-very-good team from the #1 ranked conference. The other is a mediocre team from the 8th ranked conference. No one said MSU is a sleeping giant...and they wouldn't be even if they played in PL...they'd have a great year by PL standards...just like Lehigh.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 10:50 AM
They did. I had Lehigh in over SBU. I actually had Wofford (7 DI wins) out and Richmond in over them, as well.

I don't see any compelling argument for SBU to get in over Lehigh.

Other than the fact that Stony Brook would drill your team.

MNBISON
November 21st, 2012, 10:54 AM
Well yeah, pretty much, well maybe not WIU. :D I'm not so sure about MSU, I think they would do just fine in the Patriot League, but that's just my take on it.

MNBISON - you're a moron.

Did you notice the green smiley face? David was the one who talked about a Colgate loss being better than a loss to MSU or SIU, I don't agree with that and I'm sure many others don't either. Stub your toe, whatever David. The hard truth is the Patriot is not the MVFC, BSC or the CAA, I'm sorry but it's true and fans of said league should be happy they have a team in the field and not looking for more slots.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:01 AM
SB was a bubble team and, like Lehigh, lived off an over-inflated ranking most of the year. But yes, the Army win is what got them in. As for the transitive, it may not prove anything but it's still very instructive.

Why don't we turn this around and say West Coast bias. Have you even seen Stony Brook, or Lehigh play?

Now I respect Eastern Washington because the Eagles went out and played a competitive schedule and WON games. EWU had a narrow loss to a Southern Utah team that was better than people realized and that played maybe the toughest schedule in FCS and EWU dropped a coin-toss game to Washington State that the Eagles could have easily won. But EWU managed to win a bunch of close games, just like Lehigh managed to win a bunch of close games. Still, there were people wanting to drop EWU in the seedings because of those close games, even with a head-to-head win against Montana State. So there are some similarities between EWU, Stony Brook and Lehigh in terms of perception. EWU's win over Army and Stony Brook's win over Idaho and the losses to Syracuse and Washington State are very similar. Army and Idaho would be pretty competitive with one another, though I'd take Syracuse in a heartbeat over WSU. There is something to be said about going out and winning the games on your schedule, which Lehigh, Stony Brook and Eastern Washington all did. How would Eagles fans like it if they were eliminated for that one bad week against Southern Utah, just like some are trying to eliminate Stony Brook and Lehigh for one bad week against Liberty and Colgate, which are not bad teams.

NHwildEcat
November 21st, 2012, 11:04 AM
It's not UNH's fault that they were selected. They had a bad game against Towson and suddenly the world has come to a complete stop.

Defense as an excuse why they should be out is a joke, and anyone who argues that point is an moron. UNH put up 61 on ODU, so by that logic they shouldn't be a seed. UNH's defense was good enought to get the 8 wins. Offense scores points, which in turn wins games. Get a clue.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:09 AM
Did you notice the green smiley face? David was the one who talked about a Colgate loss being better than a loss to MSU or SIU, I don't agree with that and I'm sure many others don't either. Stub your toe, whatever David. The hard truth is the Patriot is not the MVFC, BSC or the CAA, I'm sorry but it's true and fans of said league should be happy they have a team in the field and not looking for more slots.

No one is saying that the Patriot League is as good as the MVFC, the Big Sky Conference (are were you talking about the Big South Conference here?), or the CAA, but I can't stand the elitism that says that a good team is bad because it plays in a less competitive conference. In Lehigh's case, the Mountain Hawks beat Northern Iowa at UNI and beat Towson at Towson in the past two years of the playoffs. And Lehigh would have been competitive again this year in the playoffs if the Mountain Hawks had gotten a chance to compete. The PL has had some playoff wins in the past 10 years in tournament. Colgate actually went to the championship game in 2003. And even some of the losses have been competitive ones, Lehigh with a narrow opening-round loss to eventual champion JMU in 2004, Lafayette leading for a good chunk of the game against eventual-champ Appalachian State in 2005 and Holy Cross giving eventual champ Villanova everything it wanted in 2009 for example. That is a better track record than what teams from the MEAC and OVC have done. And there have been some pretty lopsided playoff losses for the MVFC during that time frame as well.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:15 AM
It's not UNH's fault that they were selected. They had a bad game against Towson and suddenly the world has come to a complete stop.

Defense as an excuse why they should be out is a joke, and anyone who argues that point is an moron. UNH put up 61 on ODU, so by that logic they shouldn't be a seed. UNH's defense was good enought to get the 8 wins. Offense scores points, which in turn wins games. Get a clue.

Defense is not an excuse, but it is a major indicator as to how a team will play in postseason football. Did you not catch the part of the article that showed that Montana is the only team to advance past the second round with a defense that was ranked 100 or below? The Griz in 2004 had the fortune to have a great offense and also got a break by not having to travel to Georgia Southern for the second round when UNH upset one of the top seeds in the tournament, Georgia Southern. New Hampshire won a first-round game at Bethune-Cookman in 2010, but then lost to Delaware 16-3 six days later in the quarterfinals. Those are the only two times since 2000 that a poorly ranked defense has won a playoff game.

GlassOnion
November 21st, 2012, 11:15 AM
"The Wildcats bring one of the worst defenses in the history of the FCS playoffs to this tournament."

New Hamphire Total Defense: 104th at 434 yards per game.

Appalachian State's Total Defense: 92nd at 413 yards per game.

Colgate's Total Defense: 96th at 422 yards per game.

Eastern Illinois Total Defense: 97th at 422 yards per game.


Not that far of an outlier, are they?

Kramden
November 21st, 2012, 11:16 AM
=Mr. C;1898787]So suddenly the entire MVFC is better than Colgate and the entire Patriot League because Colgate stubbed its toe in one game in the second week of the season? If anyone knows anything about Colgate it is that the Raiders always start the season slowly. I doubt that South Dakota would have come close to beating the Colgate club that rolled through the Patriot League and neither would have Missouri State.

Well said. This garbage about who beat who back in September makes me wonder if the bowl system isn't so bad after all. I think I saw a thread that had Savannah State beating Alabama if you followed it through a string of about 15 different games.

andy7171
November 21st, 2012, 11:19 AM
Great article Mr. C!!!

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:20 AM
Using the defensive indicator tells us also that Old Dominion, ranked 75th nationally in defense, might be another team that struggles to hold up its seed in the playoffs. Seven of the top 20 defenses in the country are in the playoff field and eight of the top 27 are in there.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:24 AM
"The Wildcats bring one of the worst defenses in the history of the FCS playoffs to this tournament."

New Hamphire Total Defense: 104th at 434 yards per game.

Appalachian State's Total Defense: 92nd at 413 yards per game.

Colgate's Total Defense: 96th at 422 yards per game.

Eastern Illinois Total Defense: 97th at 422 yards per game.


Not that far of an outlier, are they?

And outside of Appalachian State, which has a favorable draw, I don't think many see any of those teams going very far in the playoffs. You could have added ODU at 390 yards per game and ranked No. 75.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 11:25 AM
And outside of Appalachian State, which has a favorable draw, I don't think many see any of those teams going very far in the playoffs. You could have added ODU at 390 yards per game and ranked No. 75.

I have a lot of teams running into that brick wall at NDSU in my bracket.

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 11:25 AM
Why don't we turn this around and say West Coast bias. Have you even seen Stony Brook, or Lehigh play?

Now I respect Eastern Washington because the Eagles went out and played a competitive schedule and WON games. EWU had a narrow loss to a Southern Utah team that was better than people realized and that played maybe the toughest schedule in FCS and EWU dropped a coin-toss game to Washington State that the Eagles could have easily won. But EWU managed to win a bunch of close games, just like Lehigh managed to win a bunch of close games. Still, there were people wanting to drop EWU in the seedings because of those close games, even with a head-to-head win against Montana State. So there are some similarities between EWU, Stony Brook and Lehigh in terms of perception. EWU's win over Army and Stony Brook's win over Idaho and the losses to Syracuse and Washington State are very similar. Army and Idaho would be pretty competitive with one another, though I'd take Syracuse in a heartbeat over WSU. There is something to be said about going out and winning the games on your schedule, which Lehigh, Stony Brook and Eastern Washington all did. How would Eagles fans like it if they were eliminated for that one bad week against Southern Utah, just like some are trying to eliminate Stony Brook and Lehigh for one bad week against Liberty and Colgate, which are not bad teams.

I watched them both play in last year's playoffs and came away very impressed with how competitive they were. I haven't seen SB play this year but I did watch Colgate vs. Lehigh. Spadola was very impressive and each team had some playmakers, but they appeared a little slower and a little smaller than BSC teams. The cool thing is, I may get to evaluate Colgate in person in a couple of weeks. Now watch them keep it close or win...would serve me right! xlolx

As for your other question, EWU wouldn't be eliminated for one bad week. We could've lost one more and made the field. You are still comparing apples to oranges. Unless you meant to say how would we feel if we had dropped down a couple of seeds. In that case I would have been fine with it. In fact, I was mildly surprised we got the #2 seed over ODU and it wouldn't have shocked me if MSU was ahead of us as well. Then again...it all goes back to that pesky SOS and the level of competition you play, doesn't it?

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:28 AM
I'm going to agree with this. Not a single mention of any big sky team, other than the illustrious Montana grizzlies who aren't even in the field.

And I did read it. Twice to be exact. East coast bias is alive and well.

Not a single mention of any Big Sky team other than Montana? Maybe you really should read it again. I noted that Northern Arizona was one of the teams that had supporters for getting into the field at 8-3, along with Eastern Kentucky and Richmond.

PAllen
November 21st, 2012, 11:32 AM
Is a not-very-good team from the #1 ranked conference. The other is a mediocre team from the 8th ranked conference. No one said MSU is a sleeping giant...and they wouldn't be even if they played in PL...they'd have a great year by PL standards...just like Lehigh.

Ahh yes. If we assume your rankings of strength are correct, then of course your conclusions on strength are correct. xlolxxlolxxlolx

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:33 AM
Coulson pees sitting down.

That really added a lot to the conversation, but I'm not surprised with it coming from Georgia Southern's least informed fan. This isn't the smack board, in case you got lost Mr. Taylor.

WileECoyote06
November 21st, 2012, 11:35 AM
Conversely, Stony Brook beat Colgate and Colgate beat Lehigh. Also, Stony Brook lost by 11 points at Syracuse while current #20 in Division I-A Louisville lost by 19 points at Syracuse. You can play this game with every team.

The above is why it is important to look at the overall body of work and not focus solely on the results of one game. All the teams competing for Division I-AA playoff spots this season played more than one game.


You don't have to convince me at all. I just get annoyed by the Lehigh hate that's always thrown around. And I'm not even a Lehigh fan. But yeah if you look at the overall body of work; well Lehigh has 10 wins. Only four teams won 10 games this season. Three of the four are seeded. The last one didn't get a bid.

If Lehigh didn't make it, neither should Stony Brook. That would have opened up spots for teams from higher rated conferences like Richmond, Towson, or EKU.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 11:38 AM
No he is not.

Missouri State has a pretty good defense. I would take them over any PL team.

Have you seen any PL teams even play this year? So suddenly Missouri State is a powerhouse with its three wins and three-point loss against NDSU?

gotts
November 21st, 2012, 11:48 AM
Have you seen any PL teams even play this year? So suddenly Missouri State is a powerhouse with its three wins and three-point loss against NDSU?

Missouri State and Lehigh both have nothing going on in the near future as far as football is concerned, just sayin'... :D

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 11:50 AM
Ahh yes. If we assume your rankings of strength are correct, then of course your conclusions on strength are correct. xlolxxlolxxlolx

Meh...I took those from Sagarin...feel free to post your own.

CHIP72
November 21st, 2012, 11:53 AM
I didn't expect YSU in just on the Pitt "W"..

The MVFC is a meat grinder especially for Youngstown. The travel alone to these very tough and remote locations wear on a team especially on a low budget. This year YSU logged in travel over 6500 miles in conference travel alone... well they fly out here right? Yes.. After the team lands at the airport then the bus ride is a usually a few hours on top of the flight. No excuse but this is a big factor to why I feel YSU has a slight disadvantage in the MVFC.

Has Youngstown State had any conversations with the CAA about joining that league? They'd still be an outlier but I don't think the travel would be quite as bad.

Really YSU is in a tough spot geographically. The thing that may make the most sense for them, if the school administration is willing to pay for it, is to move up to Division I-A and join the MAC. They'd fit in very well there.

CHIP72
November 21st, 2012, 12:00 PM
You don't have to convince me at all. I just get annoyed by the Lehigh hate that's always thrown around. And I'm not even a Lehigh fan. But yeah if you look at the overall body of work; well Lehigh has 10 wins. Only four teams won 10 games this season. Three of the four are seeded. The last one didn't get a bid.

If Lehigh didn't make it, neither should Stony Brook. That would have opened up spots for teams from higher rated conferences like Richmond, Towson, or EKU.

For whatever it is worth, I'm a Lehigh fan and 1) didn't think they were one of the 10 best at-large teams this year and 2) thought Stony Brook was a more deserving selection than Lehigh. (Towson may have been more deserving than Stony Brook and a few other teams, and I know they were more deserving than New Hampshire and probably Sam Houston State, but that's another story.) The Patriot League was down this year, Lehigh's non-conference schedule was weaker than normal, and the Mountain Hawks didn't beat up on their weak schedule enough IMO.

Having said that, I get tired of the Patriot League bashing too. The Patriot League was not a good league this year; I'll be the first to tell you that. But that doesn't mean the Patriot League is a poor league every year.

GlassOnion
November 21st, 2012, 12:00 PM
And outside of Appalachian State, which has a favorable draw, I don't think many see any of those teams going very far in the playoffs. You could have added ODU at 390 yards per game and ranked No. 75.

Maybe not. "Complete" teams seem to be a bit hard to come by in certain years. Alot can happen though. App certainly has a chance to make some waves, not having to meet a triple O till possibly the semi finals seems very promising, and even then its unlikely. 2007 seems to be the blueprint. I dont think this years' offense is quite that good, but its the best tool in the chest at the moment. If the defense continues to improve, stays healthy who knows. But 07 is a great example of a regular season with porous defense, and playoff calibre defensive effort in december. It can happen, we'll see it these guys are Goonies at heart, wont we?

CHIP72
November 21st, 2012, 12:03 PM
Missouri State and Lehigh both have nothing going on in the near future as far as football is concerned, just sayin'... :D

I see what you did there. :)

I think everybody should be able to agree on that point!

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 12:04 PM
Maybe not. "Complete" teams seem to be a bit hard to come by in certain years. Alot can happen though. App certainly has a chance to make some waves, not having to meet a triple O till possibly the semi finals seems very promising, and even then its unlikely. 2007 seems to be the blueprint. I dont think this years' offense is quite that good, but its the best tool in the chest at the moment. If the defense continues to improve, stays healthy who knows. But 07 is a great example of a regular season with porous defense, and playoff calibre defensive effort in december. It can happen, we'll see it these guys are Goonies at heart, wont we?

That describes us to a T. Would be cool to meet you guys in the quarters.

GlassOnion
November 21st, 2012, 12:18 PM
That describes us to a T. Would be cool to meet you guys in the quarters.

It would indeed. Although I dread watching that game on TV. Im color blind and that field plays havock with my vision.

MNBISON
November 21st, 2012, 01:35 PM
No one is saying that the Patriot League is as good as the MVFC, the Big Sky Conference (are were you talking about the Big South Conference here?), or the CAA, but I can't stand the elitism that says that a good team is bad because it plays in a less competitive conference. In Lehigh's case, the Mountain Hawks beat Northern Iowa at UNI and beat Towson at Towson in the past two years of the playoffs. And Lehigh would have been competitive again this year in the playoffs if the Mountain Hawks had gotten a chance to compete. The PL has had some playoff wins in the past 10 years in tournament. Colgate actually went to the championship game in 2003. And even some of the losses have been competitive ones, Lehigh with a narrow opening-round loss to eventual champion JMU in 2004, Lafayette leading for a good chunk of the game against eventual-champ Appalachian State in 2005 and Holy Cross giving eventual champ Villanova everything it wanted in 2009 for example. That is a better track record than what teams from the MEAC and OVC have done. And there have been some pretty lopsided playoff losses for the MVFC during that time frame as well.

Fair enough David, I can respect that although I think you were stretching a bit with the loss to Colgate being 100 times better than a loss to SIU or MSU but we can agree to disagree. Enjoy your holiday.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 01:56 PM
Maybe not. "Complete" teams seem to be a bit hard to come by in certain years. Alot can happen though. App certainly has a chance to make some waves, not having to meet a triple O till possibly the semi finals seems very promising, and even then its unlikely. 2007 seems to be the blueprint. I dont think this years' offense is quite that good, but its the best tool in the chest at the moment. If the defense continues to improve, stays healthy who knows. But 07 is a great example of a regular season with porous defense, and playoff calibre defensive effort in december. It can happen, we'll see it these guys are Goonies at heart, wont we?

Appalachian State is quite good on offense. The top two receiving corps in all of FCS could be facing off if ASU plays EWU in the quarterfinals and I've been impressed with the growth of Jamal Jackson as a quarterback. Steven Miller and Rod Chisholm are two very good RBs. The only negative about ASU's offense is whether that line can hold up. Maybe the three weeks between game will be helpful in getting some people healthy for ASU. I still think that ASU and Villanova are real dark horses in this field and I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see those two teams squaring off in Boone in the semifinals.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 01:57 PM
It would indeed. Although I dread watching that game on TV. Im color blind and that field plays havock with my vision.

Maybe you need rose-colored glasses, or some other sort of shade.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 02:02 PM
Does anyone know if there is an easy place to find cumulative records for FCS teams over the past 10 and 15 years? People should realize that, despite playing in the Patriot League, Lehigh is one of the winningest programs in FCS since the late 1990s when Kevin Higgins started building the program and that the Mountain Hawks have been very competitive in postseason play.

Neighbor2
November 21st, 2012, 02:20 PM
On the plus side, Lehigh is being talked about, dissected, analyzed, more than ANY team that actually made this year's playoffs. Much more than NDSU who was clearly the best FCS team then, is now, and forever shall be. Just ask them! :D

Seriously, this 50 year long Lehigh fan admits his team probably wouldn't have advanced past the second round, but with the season it had and an expanded field, I'm surprised they didn't get invited to the party.

Gordon Shumway
November 21st, 2012, 03:30 PM
Does anyone know if there is an easy place to find cumulative records for FCS teams over the past 10 and 15 years? People should realize that, despite playing in the Patriot League, Lehigh is one of the winningest programs in FCS since the late 1990s when Kevin Higgins started building the program and that the Mountain Hawks have been very competitive in postseason play.

You might need your calculator, but this has everything but this year.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa_team_index.php

Go...gate
November 21st, 2012, 04:27 PM
Was anyone at that end of the regular season game between Colgate and Bucknell? Colgate won 48-14.

I was. It was played on mud at Andy Kerr Stadium after the thaw of a snowstorm the night before. Colgate was actually an underdog, but came out flying and played a great game. Bucknell struggled to get anything going consistently That year, strength of sked definitely helped Colgate be prepared for a winner-take all game - we had played at Annapolis and West Point and lost tough early-season games to Richmond and at Princeton (PU was still coached by Steve Tosches and pretty strong).

Go...gate
November 21st, 2012, 04:31 PM
Best thing about a discussion like this is that we will start to get answers this weekend. In the meantime, good luck to all squads! I hope that all teams play to their full capability and avoid serious injuries to personnel.

UNH72Plus
November 21st, 2012, 05:08 PM
And UNH beat no one, but Richmond.

JMU just missed a share of the CAA title by playing one bad quarter against Old Dominion. The Dukes were not a bad team this season, they just got banged up going against the CAA and were not the same team at the end of the as they were at the beginning. I attended the JMU-Towson game. It was one of the best defensive games I've seen in FCS in several years. But then what would UNH know about defense.

And UNH just missed winning the title outright by losing a fumble on the one yard line against ODU and losing by 3 points. You neglect to mention that UNH racked up 725 yards total offense and 61 points against the future #4 seed in the playoffs.

LouiseBFree
November 21st, 2012, 06:27 PM
And, that's the... wait for it.... the ONLY reason they might be one of the winningest programs in FCS since the late 1990s. xrolleyesx

Good grief, seriously?!?!?!?!!?



Does anyone know if there is an easy place to find cumulative records for FCS teams over the past 10 and 15 years? People should realize that, despite playing in the Patriot League, Lehigh is one of the winningest programs in FCS since the late 1990s when Kevin Higgins started building the program and that the Mountain Hawks have been very competitive in postseason play.

Tubakat2014
November 21st, 2012, 06:27 PM
Winning against teams with losing records and you want to talk about margin of victory? I didn't say that the Patriot League was better than the Southland Conference, but the fact is there were not many out-of-conference wins for the Southland this season. SHSU's only ones were Texas Southern and Incarnate Word, SFA beat SW Oklahoma, Northwestern State beat Arkansas-Monticello and Mississippi Valley State, Lamar beat Prairie View, Langston and McMurry, Nichols State beat Evangel. SELU beat no one out of conference and still managed to finish third. That's three SWAC wins and six wins over sub-D-I teams. Central Arkansas is the one shining light, with a win against OVC champion Eastern Illinois and Murray State and a competitive loss to Ole Miss, to go with a win over Bacone College. McNeese State had that opening-night win over Middle Tennessee State and wins over Weber State and McMurry, along with a tight loss to transitioning UTSA. So the final tally is one FBS win, two wins over the OVC, one win over the Big Sky, three SWAC victories and eight sub-D-I wins. It would be hard to find a conference that did worse than that in 2012. Maybe the SWAC, or the PFL?

And on that win against Liberty, the Flames have one of the top facilities in FCS in Williams Stadium and Liberty defends its turf about as well as anyone. The Flames lost one game at home to JMU on a last-second field goal last year and lost to Lehigh and a Norfolk State squad that was ranked at the time before injuries decimated them this year. Not many teams go in there and beat Liberty at home. Three home losses in three years since the stadium was renovated.

Now I would have swapped UNH for Towson and Illinois State for Lehigh, but SHSU would have definitely been on my bubble, if someone wanted to make a case for another 8-3 team like Richmond, Northern Arizona, or Eastern Kentucky. I would have gone with Sam Houston State, as I noted in my weekend column before the selections were made. But Sam Houston State would have been the 20th team into the field.

When it comes to having teams with losing records on your schedule, having healthy margins of victory against them is a plus. You can't control the teams on your schedule, but you can certainly control how you handle them. This may not be the BCS, but when a team's schedule is packed with close wins against mediocre teams, it makes you wonder. If Lehigh had a 14-21 point margin of victory over every team they played (not including a loss to Colgate), I'm sure they would have been in the field. And if you're going to argue against the Southland based on the number of sub-DI games that the conference plays, I'd honestly have to agree with you. Even the weaker teams in the SLC can lay a beating on many DII/NAIA teams- all for the net effect of exactly zero when it comes time for playoffs. Watching SHSU demolish Incarnate Word at the beginning of the season wasn't very fulfilling. It answered no questions about how well the team would perform, and we had exactly zero wins once the game clock ran out as far as the playoff committee was concerned. I understand that AD's have their hands tied behind their back sometimes and absolutely need to get a game on the schedule, but I almost wonder if it would be better in the eyes of the playoff committee to just have a second bye week instead of a sub-DI game?

Regarding your comments on Liberty- I understand what you're saying about the toughness of playing them at their home, but there has to be a balance between being good defenders of their home turf and still managing to be a 6-5 team. Again, Liberty has not been a bad team by any means this year, but they're still not exactly the line you point to on your schedule and say, "HA! Look at this!"

On the flipside, I understand why you don't think SHSU has done anything themselves to stand out as anything more than the 20th team in a 20 team field. I happen to think they deserve their second round home game, but I admit it's more of a "just look at them, they're on fire!" kind of thing rather than something I could justify by comparing them to other teams in the playoff field.

Neighbor2
November 21st, 2012, 06:37 PM
So. . . . merely winning is not enough? No regard for turnovers, weather, injuries that day, dropping a knee, etc. Unless it's a big win, it really doesn't count as a win?
Sad.

Walkon79
November 21st, 2012, 06:55 PM
Appalachian State is quite good on offense. The top two receiving corps in all of FCS could be facing off if ASU plays EWU in the quarterfinals and I've been impressed with the growth of Jamal Jackson as a quarterback. Steven Miller and Rod Chisholm are two very good RBs. The only negative about ASU's offense is whether that line can hold up. Maybe the three weeks between game will be helpful in getting some people healthy for ASU. I still think that ASU and Villanova are real dark horses in this field and I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see those two teams squaring off in Boone in the semifinals.

Roos Field / Bobcat Stadium in December. We'll see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TypicalTribe
November 21st, 2012, 08:22 PM
Arguing about defense in terms of New Hampshire is the wrong approach. Here's the simplest one. For their seven wins outside of Richmond, their opponents were 17-59 overall. Read that number closely so it sinks in. Their other five CAA wins were over teams that went 13-42. What does that mean, well to me it says that pretty much any potential playoff team would have won those 7 games. In their other four games, they went 1-3 and gave up 212 points. What makes that such a great playoff resume? Overall, UNH's opponents went 48-72. Towson's were 69-52 and Towson didn't get to play Georgia State.

I keep reading about how 7-4 records are mediocre but take a quick look at Youngstown State in comparison. They beat Pittsburgh and 9-2 Albany out of conference and then played four 7+ win teams, a really good Southern Illinois team and a very dangerous Northern Iowa team. That's eight highly competitive games. Heck of a lot tougher to go 8-3 against that schedule.

And for the record, Illinois State and South Dakota State both went 8-3 but didn't have to play each other. That worked out nicely.

The fact is, the difference between 8-3 and 7-4 isn't much and, in a year where there were unbalanced schedules in a number of the strongest FCS conferences, there had to be some context taken into account between these teams. If the committee did indeed dismiss 7-4 teams entirely then they were not interested in putting the strongest 10 at-large teams in the field and were completely inconsistent given the fact that two schools with only 7 DI wins not only got at-large bids but are hosting games in the second round.

Mr. C
November 21st, 2012, 08:33 PM
Roos Field / Bobcat Stadium in December. We'll see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

App State plays in bad weather quite frequently. They don't have to practice in it anymore, however, with that indoor facility. People forget that Boone is in the mountains.

PAllen
November 21st, 2012, 08:57 PM
Meh...I took those from Sagarin...feel free to post your own.

So you took them from a source that openly admits it doesn't rank games against sub Div I opponents correctly (teams the "power" conferences love to play quite often).xsmileyclapx

kalm
November 21st, 2012, 09:32 PM
So you took them from a source that openly admits it doesn't rank games against sub Div I opponents correctly (teams the "power" conferences love to play quite often).xsmileyclapx

1). We had an all DI schedule just like most of the BSC.

2). DII's that have equal schollies to FCS teams should be considered.

Sac
November 21st, 2012, 09:42 PM
Bring on the triple option to the Fargo Dome. Just ask Georgia Southern.

PAllen
November 21st, 2012, 09:49 PM
1). We had an all DI schedule just like most of the BSC.

2). DII's that have equal schollies to FCS teams should be considered.

Ah, now we're changing the selection rules. OK, now it makes more sense.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the BSC, CAA, MVFC, and SoCon have each played many more sub Div I opponents than the Patriot League has for any one of the last five, ten, hell, fifteen years.

sgt smash
November 21st, 2012, 09:53 PM
Ah, now we're changing the selection rules. OK, now it makes more sense.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the BSC, CAA, MVFC, and SoCon have each played many more sub Div I opponents than the Patriot League has for any one of the last five, ten, hell, fifteen years.

There are many D2 teams that would run roughshod over the bottom 3/4 of the Patriot League.

Neighbor2
November 21st, 2012, 10:21 PM
Here we go again. The big, bad bully comes out. Gotta tell 'ya, NDSU, humility is not one of your virtues.

sgt smash
November 21st, 2012, 10:44 PM
I am not being an ***. I am saying what is true. D2 teams have more schollies. I suggest you heed the fact that I was resoonding to a comment about the Power Conferences OOC scheduling. My rebuttal was simply that many of those teams would do very well in the Patriot League.

Neighbor2
November 21st, 2012, 10:47 PM
Oh, I see, the "power conferences." Thanks for proving my point.

sgt smash
November 21st, 2012, 10:51 PM
I didn't coin that phrase. I just use it since it is easier than typing them out everytime.

Neighbor2
November 21st, 2012, 10:59 PM
sgt,

You are having a good run. You're in a nice place right now. You, and other NDSU posters are not sending the best message in my mind. You guys are condescending with your posts. That's all. A real champion accepts its success and honors its opponents. I don't see that here.

Nickels
November 21st, 2012, 11:10 PM
sgt,

You are having a good run. You're in a nice place right now. You, and other NDSU posters are not sending the best message in my mind. You guys are condescending with your posts. That's all. A real champion accepts its success and honors its opponents. I don't see that here.
So he is supposed to lie because his team is the current champion? What is the entire PLs biggest win this year? Liberty?

sgt smash
November 21st, 2012, 11:16 PM
sgt,

You are having a good run. You're in a nice place right now. You, and other NDSU posters are not sending the best message in my mind. You guys are condescending with your posts. That's all. A real champion accepts its success and honors its opponents. I don't see that here.
I am sorry if it came off that way. I simply responded to another post about the BSC, MVFC, SoCon, CAA, Southland etc. playing D2 teams. I stated my opinion that while a D2 team would not play with the PL champ, they would fare well in the Patriot League.

Neighbor2
November 21st, 2012, 11:19 PM
Not lie, obviously. Just show a bit more tact, More maturity, humility. You know, qualities you already have.

sgt smash
November 21st, 2012, 11:22 PM
Not lie, obviously. Just show a bit more tact, More maturity, humility. You know, qualities you already have.

I don't understand. I called no names. No degrading your team. I just stated an opinion.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 21st, 2012, 11:39 PM
I am not being an ***. I am saying what is true. D2 teams have more schollies.

Than who? Jacksonville, one of Georgia Southern's opponents? Texas Southern and Incarnate Word, SHSU's foes? Drake, one of Montana State's bitter foes this year? San Diego/Cal Poly? Campbell/Old Dominion? Dayton/Illinois State?

Five of these six teams got at-large bids. "Schedule strength".

sgt smash
November 21st, 2012, 11:50 PM
Than who? Jacksonville, one of Georgia Southern's opponents? Texas Southern and Incarnate Word, SHSU's foes? Drake, one of Montana State's bitter foes this year? San Diego/Cal Poly? Campbell/Old Dominion? Dayton/Illinois State?

Five of these six teams got at-large bids. "Schedule strength".

Hey. Chadron State made the D2 playoffs this year. Lost, but they made it. Thats solid. I was referring to D2 scholarships cmpared to Patriot League scholarships. Not to mention the admissions process and requirements in the Patriot League l. You guys are taking this too personally. The PL is a very respectable group of institutions. Athletics are not as high of a priority as other schools. Congratulations and best of luck to your champ in the playoffs.

robsnotes4u
November 22nd, 2012, 01:02 AM
App State plays in bad weather quite frequently. They don't have to practice in it anymore, however, with that indoor facility. People forget that Boone is in the mountains.

At 3,333 feet I wouldn't say that is much of a mountain when the highest peak east of the Rockies is considered a hill, Harney Peak in the Black Hills of SD at 7,200 feet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

caribbeanhen
November 22nd, 2012, 08:07 AM
Why dont we ask Delaware how good the UNH defense can be.

the Delaware offense was anemic this year

Kramden
November 22nd, 2012, 08:25 AM
sgt smash;I am sorry if it came off that way. I simply responded to another post about the BSC, MVFC, SoCon, CAA, Southland etc. playing D2 teams. I stated my opinion that while a D2 team would not play with the PL champ, they would fare well in the Patriot League.

I have been reading this "debate" from the side and am very ammused. There is very little going on in North Dakota, apparently, since those fans are so wrapped around their "FCS" team, not BCS team but FCS team, yet can be so condescending to other FCS conferences who obviosuly have a little different level of priroties beyond their football program; like the kids have to be smart? What a revelation. All schools , at all levels, should be loyal to their programs and if they play each other, most of the time, but not all of the time, the team with the better athletes tends to win. But you still play the game. The PL has performed admirably in the playoffs compared to schools who should be able to recruit more athlletes since their financial and academic policies allow it. Enjoy the games this weekend, guys, whoever your team is.

sgt smash
November 22nd, 2012, 08:43 AM
Kramden, go read post #150. Pretty much exactly what is you said. Also, please find what I said yesterday that would have been condescending and show it to me. Don't go telling me that saying that some better D2 teams would do well in the PL is condescending. I have given valid points and so far the only responses have been: immature, showing no humility, condescending etc. from three of you. When I was responding to a chest beater about BSC, MVFC, CAA and SoCon scheduling D2 teams and how the PL doesn't. Now either give me a decent talking point or put on your big boy underwear and watch the playoffs from the couch with your team.



Now that is condescending there.

kalm
November 22nd, 2012, 09:46 AM
Ah, now we're changing the selection rules. OK, now it makes more sense.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the BSC, CAA, MVFC, and SoCon have each played many more sub Div I opponents than the Patriot League has for any one of the last five, ten, hell, fifteen years.

Yes, IMO the selection rules should be changed. Basing wins that count on scholarship level is less arbitrary than conference affiliation. But it doesn't have to be complicated, just count all wins DII and up. If a team schedules 3 DII OOC, there SOS will be regarded similar to if they scheduled 3 PL or PFL teams OOC.

As for the BSC scheduling more DII's, I'm sure you're right. There are 13 FCS programs west of the Dakotas/Texas. Unless you have the gate of Montana or Montana State, it's tough to set up FCS home and homes, fly a team out here and lose money on the game. The other option is to settle on two FBS games which more and more schools are doing at the expense of making the playoffs.

You guys are all touchy and hung up on division rather than reality.

Kramden
November 22nd, 2012, 10:05 AM
sgt smash;1899632]Kramden, go read post #150. Pretty much exactly what is you said. Also, please find what I said yesterday that would have been condescending and show it to me. Don't go telling me that saying that some better D2 teams would do well in the PL is condescending. I have given valid points and so far the only responses have been: immature, showing no humility, condescending etc. from three of you. When I was responding to a chest beater about BSC, MVFC, CAA and SoCon scheduling D2 teams and how the PL doesn't. Now either give me a decent talking point or put on your big boy underwear and watch the playoffs from the couch with your team.



Now that is condescending there.

I stand corrected. Unfortunately I left my big boy underwear with my feety NDSU pajamas in my trailor last weekend and now I cannot find them (just kidding). Good luck to your team, Smash, they are the best the FCS has this year and shoudl win it all. We East Coast snobs who have no life and have no real teams to root for at this level, will watch some of our teams make it to the round of 16, possibly, and then flip our attention to the BCS and NFL.

SpeedkingATL
November 22nd, 2012, 10:09 AM
That describes us to a T. Would be cool to meet you guys in the quarters.

Does your scoreboard got into triple digits?? That might be a possibility with these 2 sets of WR's against these 2 defenses.

sgt smash
November 22nd, 2012, 10:32 AM
Thanks Kramden, again, I am not trying to downplay PL football as I understand the universities in the PL are in the right place. We will see in a few years what scholarships can do for you. Enjoy the rest of the year.

ngineer
November 23rd, 2012, 12:13 AM
Winning against teams with losing records and you want to talk about margin of victory? I didn't say that the Patriot League was better than the Southland Conference, but the fact is there were not many out-of-conference wins for the Southland this season. SHSU's only ones were Texas Southern and Incarnate Word, SFA beat SW Oklahoma, Northwestern State beat Arkansas-Monticello and Mississippi Valley State, Lamar beat Prairie View, Langston and McMurry, Nichols State beat Evangel. SELU beat no one out of conference and still managed to finish third. That's three SWAC wins and six wins over sub-D-I teams. Central Arkansas is the one shining light, with a win against OVC champion Eastern Illinois and Murray State and a competitive loss to Ole Miss, to go with a win over Bacone College. McNeese State had that opening-night win over Middle Tennessee State and wins over Weber State and McMurry, along with a tight loss to transitioning UTSA. So the final tally is one FBS win, two wins over the OVC, one win over the Big Sky, three SWAC victories and eight sub-D-I wins. It would be hard to find a conference that did worse than that in 2012. Maybe the SWAC, or the PFL?

And on that win against Liberty, the Flames have one of the top facilities in FCS in Williams Stadium and Liberty defends its turf about as well as anyone. The Flames lost one game at home to JMU on a last-second field goal last year and lost to Lehigh and a Norfolk State squad that was ranked at the time before injuries decimated them this year. Not many teams go in there and beat Liberty at home. Three home losses in three years since the stadium was renovated.

Now I would have swapped UNH for Towson and Illinois State for Lehigh, but SHSU would have definitely been on my bubble, if someone wanted to make a case for another 8-3 team like Richmond, Northern Arizona, or Eastern Kentucky. I would have gone with Sam Houston State, as I noted in my weekend column before the selections were made. But Sam Houston State would have been the 20th team into the field.

I'm glad someone recognizes this. Moreover, the 28-26 score is misleading because Liberty never actually scored their last touchdown as the replays revealed. In effect a 28-20 game over a team that beat Stony Brook, in the same venue, by two touchdowns. Obviously, Liberty's one point loss to Wake Forest and stubbing their toe against Norfolk hurt their image and, hence, their percieved strength. While I recognize the overall strength of Lehigh's schedule is questioned, Colgate has shown to have grown into a quality team. Over the years many very good teams have inexplicable losses to teams perceived to be lesser. It's why we call it 'any given Saturday.' The impressive offensive display that Colgate created by late September should be acknowledged. At the same time Lehigh having one bad half of football on November 10 should not have been a nail in its coffin. The following week's 17 point win over it's arch rival in one of college football's most emotional games played every year said alot about the toughness and resiliency of this Lehigh squad. I don't care what conference you are in. Going 10-1 is an achievement that deserved respect from the hacks who made up the Committee. The FCS coaches recognized that achievement by voting Lehigh #10 in the final regular season poll. Towson's and Eastern Kentucky's exclusions were very puzzling as well. For both Towson and Lehigh to get shut out after last year's barn-burner between them is strange. Let me say that while I bitch about the unfairness of the Committee's decision, I also accept it because Lehigh failed to do its job in winning the conference AQ. The rules are the rules and if you leave your destiny in the hands of some political clowns, you deserve the fate they concoct.

kalm
November 23rd, 2012, 01:59 PM
Who has Liberty beat at home?

Redbird Ray
November 23rd, 2012, 02:59 PM
This is the last time I'm going to defend ISU's inclusion. Finished in third place in far and away the nation's highest rated fcs conf. Wins over 3 teams in the Sagarin top 100. Loses to a Missouri State team that lost to NDSU by 4 pts and a SIU team that finished 1 game out of first place in the nations toughest conference. SIU is also a Sagarin top 100. People aka Jay Walker that called ISU out for bad loses are idiots that clearly didn't do their research. ISU wasn't even in the discussion for last pair of teams selected.

youngterrier
November 23rd, 2012, 03:22 PM
You guys make me feel better about playing UNH offensively......it will be a relief after playing top-ranked defenses like USC, GSU, Samford, and Chattanooga......

now if only we can stop their offense

Mr. C
November 23rd, 2012, 03:47 PM
You guys make me feel better about playing UNH offensively......it will be a relief after playing top-ranked defenses like USC, GSU, Samford, and Chattanooga......

now if only we can stop their offense
Your ability to control the clock with your offense will limit UNH's possessions. The biggest concern for Wofford will be to not let the Wildcats get off to a quick start offensively. You don't want to go down two or three scores early (but I don't see that happening).

gsu_paintballer
November 23rd, 2012, 03:52 PM
Your ability to control the clock with your offense will limit UNH's possessions. The biggest concern for Wofford will be to not let the Wildcats get off to a quick start offensively. You don't want to go down two or three scores early (but I don't see that happening).

Just out of curiosity, do you media types get together and come up with these lines?

Mr. C
November 23rd, 2012, 04:08 PM
This is the last time I'm going to defend ISU's inclusion. Finished in third place in far and away the nation's highest rated fcs conf. Wins over 3 teams in the Sagarin top 100. Loses to a Missouri State team that lost to NDSU by 4 pts and a SIU team that finished 1 game out of first place in the nations toughest conference. SIU is also a Sagarin top 100. People aka Jay Walker that called ISU out for bad loses are idiots that clearly didn't do their research. ISU wasn't even in the discussion for last pair of teams selected.

First off, throw away Sagarin. Sagarin rankings are one of the worst measurements out there, because he doesn't rank teams that play below D-I. With all of the D-II games that D-I teams play, it skews his ratings. Most of the computer rankings are pretty crappy. We can agree to disagree that the MVFC is the toughest in FCS. NDSU has proven itself in FCS, the other teams in the league, not so much. So just because Missouri State — a team that won only three games and lost six in a row at one point — lost to NDSU by four points, the Bears are suddenly a good team? Missouri State lost to a second-division team from the OVC, Murray State. Does that mean that suddenly that all of the OVC is better than NDSU? How many teams in the playoffs lost to teams with three or less wins in FCS? Outside of Colgate's loss to South Dakota, Illinois State's loss to Missouri State is arguably the worst of any playoff team this season. Jay Walker wasn't right about much, but that was a bad loss. And Southern Illinois was a shutout loss for Illinois State. A shutout loss to a mediocre team. How many teams in the playoffs got shutout in ANY games this season? The only one I can think of is Illinois State. Your team was highly erratic. Whether Illinois State was among the last schools in the discussion, or not, is not the point. The Redbirds should not have received a first-round bye over South Dakota State, which finished ahead of it in its own league than New Hampshire should have gotten a bye ahead of of an automatic CAA bid squad Villanova. With all of that said, I expect Illinois State to play one game and be done. It's not like ISU is capable of making a deep run.

Mr. C
November 23rd, 2012, 04:10 PM
Just out of curiosity, do you media types get together and come up with these lines?

What is that suppose to mean? Obviously an option team doesn't want to get down early.

kalm
November 23rd, 2012, 04:32 PM
I'm still looking for an answer on who Liberty has beat at home...


And on that win against Liberty, the Flames have one of the top facilities in FCS in Williams Stadium and Liberty defends its turf about as well as anyone. The Flames lost one game at home to JMU on a last-second field goal last year and lost to Lehigh and a Norfolk State squad that was ranked at the time before injuries decimated them this year. Not many teams go in there and beat Liberty at home. Three home losses in three years since the stadium was renovated.

Houndawg
November 23rd, 2012, 05:19 PM
First off, throw away Sagarin. Sagarin rankings are one of the worst measurements out there, because he doesn't rank teams that play below D-I. With all of the D-II games that D-I teams play, it skews his ratings. Most of the computer rankings are pretty crappy. We can agree to disagree that the MVFC is the toughest in FCS. NDSU has proven itself in FCS, the other teams in the league, not so much. So just because Missouri State a team that won only three games and lost six in a row at one point lost to NDSU by four points, the Bears are suddenly a good team? Missouri State lost to a second-division team from the OVC, Murray State. Does that mean that suddenly that all of the OVC is better than NDSU? How many teams in the playoffs lost to teams with three or less wins in FCS? Outside of Colgate's loss to South Dakota, Illinois State's loss to Missouri State is arguably the worst of any playoff team this season. Jay Walker wasn't right about much, but that was a bad loss. And Southern Illinois was a shutout loss for Illinois State. A shutout loss to a mediocre team. How many teams in the playoffs got shutout in ANY games this season? The only one I can think of is Illinois State. Your team was highly erratic. Whether Illinois State was among the last schools in the discussion, or not, is not the point. The Redbirds should not have received a first-round bye over South Dakota State, which finished ahead of it in its own league than New Hampshire should have gotten a bye ahead of of an automatic CAA bid squad Villanova. With all of that said, I expect Illinois State to play one game and be done. It's not like ISU is capable of making a deep run.

Mediocre team, but a very good defense - I agree that SDSU is much the better team of the two and deserved the bye much more than ISU.

WrenFGun
November 23rd, 2012, 05:42 PM
Just out of curiosity, do you media types get together and come up with these lines?

Haha. I think this everytime I read it.

gsu_paintballer
November 23rd, 2012, 06:00 PM
Just received my first negative rep on the site. Was good while it lasted :(

Thanks, Coulson. Professional comment you left there as well.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 23rd, 2012, 06:42 PM
I'm still looking for an answer on who Liberty has beat at home...

Mighty 9-2 Stony Brook, you mean?

kalm
November 23rd, 2012, 06:54 PM
Mighty 9-2 Stony Brook, you mean?

Exactly.

Redbird Ray
November 23rd, 2012, 08:57 PM
First off, throw away Sagarin. Sagarin rankings are one of the worst measurements out there, because he doesn't rank teams that play below D-I. With all of the D-II games that D-I teams play, it skews his ratings. Most of the computer rankings are pretty crappy. We can agree to disagree that the MVFC is the toughest in FCS. NDSU has proven itself in FCS, the other teams in the league, not so much. So just because Missouri State — a team that won only three games and lost six in a row at one point — lost to NDSU by four points, the Bears are suddenly a good team? Missouri State lost to a second-division team from the OVC, Murray State. Does that mean that suddenly that all of the OVC is better than NDSU? How many teams in the playoffs lost to teams with three or less wins in FCS? Outside of Colgate's loss to South Dakota, Illinois State's loss to Missouri State is arguably the worst of any playoff team this season. Jay Walker wasn't right about much, but that was a bad loss. And Southern Illinois was a shutout loss for Illinois State. A shutout loss to a mediocre team. How many teams in the playoffs got shutout in ANY games this season? The only one I can think of is Illinois State. Your team was highly erratic. Whether Illinois State was among the last schools in the discussion, or not, is not the point. The Redbirds should not have received a first-round bye over South Dakota State, which finished ahead of it in its own league than New Hampshire should have gotten a bye ahead of of an automatic CAA bid squad Villanova. With all of that said, I expect Illinois State to play one game and be done. It's not like ISU is capable of making a deep run.

Mr. C, your points about Sagarin are absolutely ridiculous. Why the hell should wins against D2 and D3 competition be viewed as favorable whatsoever for teams at the FCS level? The selection committee doesn't factor non-D1 wins into their selection process, why the hell should Sagarin in his power rankings of D1 teams? If his rankings are credible enough to be used as a major component of the BCS rankings, then they're probably valid enough to give insight into how the rest of D1 ranks at a competitive scale.

Second, Missouri State wasn't a good loss, but it wasn't really a horrible loss either. Missouri State was still a team that played some of the best teams in the nation's best FCS conference to less than 10 points. They also played Kansas State and Louisville practically even for a half. I highly doubt many, if any, teams in either the CAA let alone the Patriot could do the same THIS YEAR.

I think many of you are also dismissing how tough the MVFC really is. The sixth place team in the conference didn't just beat, they dominated a Big East team in Pitt. Three teams in the conference didn't just beat, they dominated FBS teams on the road. And don't give me any crap about EMU and Colorado State being crappy teams. Those teams, while crappy at the FBS level, would still win half of the leagues in the FCS level. The 7th place team in conference lost to Iowa and Wisconsin on the road by less than 12 points. I doubt the 2nd or 3rd best, let alone 7th best team in any other conference in FCS could do as well as UNI did at Iowa and Wisconsin.

ISU's games against SIU and Missouri State were not great games, but the third best team in far and away the nation's toughest conference deserves a bid to the tournament. This really isn't even debatable, and the selection committee clearly didn't think so either.

Redbird Ray
November 23rd, 2012, 09:01 PM
Mediocre team, but a very good defense - I agree that SDSU is much the better team of the two and deserved the bye much more than ISU.

Your insight on ISU is based on one game this year, in which ISU had its worst game of the year on offense. How about ISUR putting up 33 at the UNIDome while SDSU was dominated there?

DSUrocks07
November 23rd, 2012, 09:10 PM
Mr. C, your points about Sagarin are absolutely ridiculous. Why the hell should wins against D2 and D3 competition be viewed as favorable whatsoever for teams at the FCS level? The selection committee doesn't factor non-D1 wins into their selection process, why the hell should Sagarin in his power rankings of D1 teams? If his rankings are credible enough to be used a major component of the BCS rankings, then their probably valid enough to give insight into how the rest of D1 ranks at a competitive scale.

Second, Missouri State wasn't a good loss, but it wasn't really a horrible loss either. Missouri State was still a team that played some of the best teams in the nation's best FCS conference to less than 10 points. They also played Kansas State and Louisville practically even for a half. I highly doubt many, if any, teams in either the CAA let alone the Patriot could do the same THIS YEAR.

I think many of you are also dismissing how tough the MVFC really is. The sixth place team in the conference didn't just beat, they dominated a Big East team in Pitt. Three teams in the conference didn't just beat, they dominated FBS teams on the road. And don't give me any crap about EMU and Colorado State being crappy teams. Those teams, while crappy at the FBS level, would still win half of the leagues in the FCS level. The 7th place team in conference lost to Iowa and Wisconsin on the road by less than 12 points. I doubt the 2nd or 3rd best, let alone 7th best team in any other conference in FCS could do as well as UNI did at Iowa and Wisconsin.

ISU's games against SIU and Missouri State were not great games, but the third best team in far and away the nation's toughest conference deserves a bid to the tournament. This really isn't even debatable, and the selection committee clearly didn't think so either.

SEC mentality xcoffeex

This is why I'm thankful for the playoff system we have. Its all cyclical, switching from the SoCon to the CAA to the MVFC...I expect that the Big Sky will be the ones claiming to be the "toughest in the nation" and that "we all play each other so we're all great teams!

Can't wait for the excuses in a few weeks. xthumbsupx

CopperCat
November 23rd, 2012, 09:15 PM
SEC mentality xcoffeex

This is why I'm thankful for the playoff system we have. Its all cyclical, switching from the SoCon to the CAA to the MVFC...I expect that the Big Sky will be the ones claiming to be the "toughest in the nation" and that "we all play each other so we're all great teams!

Can't wait for the excuses in a few weeks. xthumbsupx

A Delaware state fan is talking trash about the big sky!?

I have now seen it all.

Neighbor2
November 23rd, 2012, 09:34 PM
Playoffs are a better solution than polls, but playoffs are not perfect. We will always deal with. . . .

"We should have been selected."

"If only we were given those guys in the First Round."

"Had this only been a home game for us."

etc., etc.

DSUrocks07
November 23rd, 2012, 09:46 PM
A Delaware state fan is talking trash about the big sky!?

I have now seen it all.

Actually it was toward the MVFC.

Follow the bouncing ball...xsmiley_wix

Redbird Ray
November 23rd, 2012, 10:22 PM
Big Sky is also a great conference. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they have a great postseason. Unfortunately, the MVFC will be down to two teams at the most by the elite 8.

Redbird Ray
November 23rd, 2012, 10:37 PM
Outside of Colgate's loss to South Dakota, Illinois State's loss to Missouri State is arguably the worst of any playoff team this season. Jay Walker wasn't right about much, but that was a bad loss. And Southern Illinois was a shutout loss for Illinois State.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc12.htm

BTW, according to the rating system that you hate, but that everyone else in the D1 world uses as a baseline comparison for SOS, Missouri State is stronger than 2/3 of the CAA and ALL of the Patriot League. SIU rates higher than every team in both leagues. So yes, plenty of teams elsewhere in the playoff field suffered worse loses. Again, like Jay Walker, I would advise that you check the stats before posting erroneous BS.

Lehigh Football Nation
November 23rd, 2012, 10:42 PM
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc12.htm

BTW, according to the rating system that you hate, but that everyone else in the D1 world uses as a baseline comparison for SOS, Missouri State is stronger than 2/3 of the CAA and ALL of the Patriot League. SIU rates higher than every team in both leagues. So yes, plenty of teams elsewhere in the playoff field suffered worse loses. Again, like Jay Walker, I would advise that you check the stats before posting erroneous BS.

Missouri State plays a whole bunch of teams that played FBS teams so they must be good. "Schedule strength."

sgt smash
November 23rd, 2012, 10:45 PM
And they play in the MVFC.

sgt smash
November 23rd, 2012, 10:47 PM
Missouri State, like Colgate is a team that got better as the season went on.

kalm
November 23rd, 2012, 10:52 PM
Missouri State plays a whole bunch of teams that played FBS teams so they must be good. "Schedule strength."

They also played two ranked FBS teams themselves. Nobody said they were "good", just that they would have probably competed for a PL title this year.

Neighbor2
November 23rd, 2012, 11:08 PM
It's that "Lehigh thing" again, I see.

In a way, they're one powerful program. Can't seem to get them out of mind. :)

ITmonarch10
November 24th, 2012, 12:12 AM
Big Sky is also a great conference. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they have a great postseason. Unfortunately, the MVFC will be down to two teams at the most by the elite 8.
It can't be helped that the playoffs favor closer proximity games.

Bison56
November 24th, 2012, 12:16 AM
Well, whoever wrote this article likes to eat corn the long way....
Yes towson deserves to be in the dance, does UNH? yes does Richmond? yes, some stuff just doesn't work out.. I think the loss to JMU was the real towson killer, JMU beat no one good this year.. besides towson...

I cant stop laughing at that line. Never heard that before thanks for the laugh.

ngineer
November 24th, 2012, 12:26 AM
You guys make me feel better about playing UNH offensively......it will be a relief after playing top-ranked defenses like USC, GSU, Samford, and Chattanooga......

now if only we can stop their offense

The over/under should be >80. Good luck!

ngineer
November 24th, 2012, 12:30 AM
I'm still looking for an answer on who Liberty has beat at home...

It would appear their wins at home were: Gardner-Webb, Concord, Charleston Southern, and Stony Brook

Houndawg
November 24th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Your insight on ISU is based on one game this year, in which ISU had its worst game of the year on offense. How about ISUR putting up 33 at the UNIDome while SDSU was dominated there?

You're not the only team that had a bad day on offense against us.....I was trying to help you out by mentioning that your shutout did come at the hands of a very good defense. I was not trying to rub in the four picks or the way we've owned your QB since forever. That defense stuffed SDSU almost as badly as ISU, but SDSU still deserved the bye more than you did.

seantaylor
November 24th, 2012, 02:57 AM
Coulson is the ultimate dbag. Only neg reps I have on this site come from the broke Steve Peery and the Jewish David Duke.

Engineer86
November 24th, 2012, 08:09 AM
I have gotten them for actually questioning the OOC schedules of SoCon teams.xrotatehx

Redbird Ray
November 24th, 2012, 04:07 PM
You're not the only team that had a bad day on offense against us.....I was trying to help you out by mentioning that your shutout did come at the hands of a very good defense. I was not trying to rub in the four picks or the way we've owned your QB since forever. That defense stuffed SDSU almost as badly as ISU, but SDSU still deserved the bye more than you did.

Debatable. I think the committee awarded us for having a slightly stronger non-conf.

Gil Dobie
November 24th, 2012, 05:01 PM
It's looking more and more like SDSU should not have been the last team in.

Kramden
November 24th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Gil Dobie;1900823]It's looking more and more like SDSU should not have been the last team in.

Or Stony Brook as the second to last.

dgreco
November 24th, 2012, 05:52 PM
dominating games by all the winning teams today.

ITmonarch10
November 24th, 2012, 06:03 PM
It's looking more and more like SDSU should not have been the last team in.

SDSU win will probably means something next year. I bet the MVFC gets 4 teams in the expanded playoffs. Poor OVC will probably never get 2 teams in ever again after this embarrassing defeat.

Gil Dobie
November 24th, 2012, 06:16 PM
Gil Dobie;1900823]It's looking more and more like SDSU should not have been the last team in.

Or Stony Brook as the second to last.

Also true :)

AmsterBison
November 25th, 2012, 09:29 AM
So, according to this article, who was supposed to be in the playoffs?

I got the impression that he wanted the whole CAA except New Hampshire and Rhode Island and the AQs (but only because there's no way around that.)

Show me your bracket!

Mr. C
November 25th, 2012, 11:02 AM
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc12.htm

BTW, according to the rating system that you hate, but that everyone else in the D1 world uses as a baseline comparison for SOS, Missouri State is stronger than 2/3 of the CAA and ALL of the Patriot League. SIU rates higher than every team in both leagues. So yes, plenty of teams elsewhere in the playoff field suffered worse loses. Again, like Jay Walker, I would advise that you check the stats before posting erroneous BS.

You can be dumb and except Sagarin as anything more than garbage if you like, but anyone serious about this stuff is going to throw it out the window. How can a system that doesn't count every game be a baseline for anything? There is nothing erroneous here. If you really think Missouri State is better than 2/3 of the CAA and all of the PL, you have absolutely ZERO clue about football. And Southern Illinois would get pummeled in the CAA. The last time a very good SIU team played a CAA squad, the Salukis were nearly shutout. This was an SIU squad that had the coach on the firing line for much of the season. Your team will be done by Saturday and your conference will have ONE team left in the quarterfinals.

Mr. C
November 25th, 2012, 11:05 AM
So, according to this article, who was supposed to be in the playoffs?

I got the impression that he wanted the whole CAA except New Hampshire and Rhode Island and the AQs (but only because there's no way around that.)

Show me your bracket!

I showed my brackets a week ago, BEFORE the field was announced, if you were paying attention:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/604-why-not-expand-to-24-playoff-teams-this-year

I had Villanova, Towson and ODU as the only three CAA that I thought should be in, with Richmond just on the outside.

Mr. C
November 25th, 2012, 11:06 AM
SDSU win will probably means something next year. I bet the MVFC gets 4 teams in the expanded playoffs. Poor OVC will probably never get 2 teams in ever again after this embarrassing defeat.

The OVC had received two teams in the field the previous two years and had been very competitive. You don't judge stuff like this on one performance from one team.

youngterrier
November 25th, 2012, 11:08 AM
The OVC had received two teams in the field the previous two years and had been very competitive. You don't judge stuff like this on one performance from one team.

said no one in a decade....

Mr. C
November 25th, 2012, 11:10 AM
Mr. C, your points about Sagarin are absolutely ridiculous. Why the hell should wins against D2 and D3 competition be viewed as favorable whatsoever for teams at the FCS level? The selection committee doesn't factor non-D1 wins into their selection process, why the hell should Sagarin in his power rankings of D1 teams? If his rankings are credible enough to be used as a major component of the BCS rankings, then they're probably valid enough to give insight into how the rest of D1 ranks at a competitive scale.

Second, Missouri State wasn't a good loss, but it wasn't really a horrible loss either. Missouri State was still a team that played some of the best teams in the nation's best FCS conference to less than 10 points. They also played Kansas State and Louisville practically even for a half. I highly doubt many, if any, teams in either the CAA let alone the Patriot could do the same THIS YEAR.

I think many of you are also dismissing how tough the MVFC really is. The sixth place team in the conference didn't just beat, they dominated a Big East team in Pitt. Three teams in the conference didn't just beat, they dominated FBS teams on the road. And don't give me any crap about EMU and Colorado State being crappy teams. Those teams, while crappy at the FBS level, would still win half of the leagues in the FCS level. The 7th place team in conference lost to Iowa and Wisconsin on the road by less than 12 points. I doubt the 2nd or 3rd best, let alone 7th best team in any other conference in FCS could do as well as UNI did at Iowa and Wisconsin.

ISU's games against SIU and Missouri State were not great games, but the third best team in far and away the nation's toughest conference deserves a bid to the tournament. This really isn't even debatable, and the selection committee clearly didn't think so either.

Because you can't have an accurate reading on teams, if you eliminate certain games from their schedule. Do we need to use very small words for you here? And I can't believe you mentioned the screwed up BCS as a defense for Sagarin. You are really clueless.