Patriot League Pick 'em - Week 6

[carney2]

Week 6, October 6, 2012:

Columbia @ LEHIGH
BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE

COLGATE - Bye

The Patriot League is 14-12 Year-to-Date vs. OOC:

1-3 in Week 5:
Vs. Big South 1-1
vs. CAA 1-3
vs. D-2 1-0
vs. Ivy 5-5
vs. MVC 0-1
vs. NEC 4-2
vs. PFL 2-0


STANDINGS:
(Patriot League W-L is listed first, followed by overall W-L)
(These are not the “official” standings because Fordham is included.)

Lafayette 1-0, 3-1
Lehigh 1-0, 5-0
Georgetown 0-0, 3-2
Colgate 0-0, 2-3
Holy Cross 0-0, 0-4
Bucknell 0-1, 1-3
Fordham* 0-1, 3-2

*Ineligible for League championship and auto-bid.

[crusader11]

All of a sudden, Princeton @ Fordham looks like a very good game.

Georgetown @ Fordham should be a good one as well, but it's hard not to like the Rams in that one. Boy, does it really seem now that Tom Masella was squandering a good deal of talent.

As for the other two games...couple of yawners. Lehigh will roll by 3+ scores, and Bucknell @ Holy Cross will be played in front of a minuscule crowd as 1) students are on Columbus break and 2) Bucknell and HC are a combined 1-7.

[DFW HOYA]

Bad stat of the week: Georgetown has not won at Fordham since 1975.

[CFBfan]

All of a sudden, Princeton @ Fordham looks like a very good game.

Georgetown @ Fordham should be a good one as well, but it's hard not to like the Rams in that one. Boy, does it really seem now that Tom Masella was squandering a good deal of talent.

As for the other two games...couple of yawners. Lehigh will roll by 3+ scores, and Bucknell @ Holy Cross will be played in front of a minuscule crowd as 1) students are on Columbus break and 2) Bucknell and HC are a combined 1-7.

could be a big day for the Rams in the Bronx. With their 3rd string QB GU had 18 TOTAL yards in the 2nd half and ZERO 1st downs vs Brown and their punter averaged a terrible 29 yards per punt.......not much there to build on

[carney2]

All of a sudden, Princeton @ Fordham looks like a very good game.

Georgetown @ Fordham should be a good one as well, but it's hard not to like the Rams in that one. Boy, does it really seem now that Tom Masella was squandering a good deal of talent.

As for the other two games...couple of yawners. Lehigh will roll by 3+ scores, and Bucknell @ Holy Cross will be played in front of a minuscule crowd as 1) students are on Columbus break and 2) Bucknell and HC are a combined 1-7.

Sorry, 11, but you've got Fordham playing twice. It's either a split squad thing or you need to make a correction. If you really meant Princeton @ Lafayette, it will not be a "very good game" as you suggest. The gods have already determined the outcome and there's no sense giving it further thought.

[jimbo65]

Thught I had posted this earlier, guess not.

Lehigh by a ton

HC home edge

Fordham by 14-17

Leopards claw Tigers

[carney2]

How about Game of the Week in the Patriot League?

Columbia @ Lehigh? Columbia vs. anyone isn't a game.

Georgetown @ Fordham? I'm thinking blowout.

Princeton @ Lafayette? The outcome, if not the final score, was determined 130 years ago. If you like to see the gods at work, you might consider this one. Will they allow those silly mortals to think there's hope by letting it get into the 4th quarter as they did in 2010? Or will they just dispense with their silly Maroon toy early and go back to moving their Assad and Imanutjob dolls around the Middle East? I guess those kinds of questions are what keeps bringing us back.

That leaves us with Bucknell @ Holy Cross. Bucknell is pretty bad, but gave Cornell a tussle. Holy Cross seems to be deteriorating by the week. Can either of these teams get up off the mat? This is my choice.

[crusader11]

Sorry, 11, but you've got Fordham playing twice. It's either a split squad thing or you need to make a correction. If you really meant Princeton @ Lafayette, it will not be a "very good game" as you suggest. The gods have already determined the outcome and there's no sense giving it further thought.

Whoops. Meant Princeton @ Lafayette.

Tigers roll by a few scores, you think? xcoffeex

[Franks Tanks]

Whoops. Meant Princeton @ Lafayette.

Tigers roll by a few scores, you think? xcoffeex

Yes, the Tigers could play with 10 players and win. They could start Dick Kaz at RB THIS week and still win. We should really use this as a bye week and rest up some of our starters who may be a bit dinged up because Lafayette can't win the game.

[carney2]

Whoops. Meant Princeton @ Lafayette.

Tigers roll by a few scores, you think? xcoffeex

It could be a "few scores." It could be 1 point. It could be 140 points as it once was. No need to get hung up on the points thing. The "W," however, has already been distributed.

[van]

LEHIGH should tame the Lions with ease
HOLY CROSS, going with home team by no more than a FG
FORDHAM is for real this year, and Hoyas are fading fast
LAFAYETTE breaks through the curse after Frank re-opens training camp in response to the drubbing by Bobby M

[DFW HOYA]

could be a big day for the Rams in the Bronx. With their 3rd string QB GU had 18 TOTAL yards in the 2nd half and ZERO 1st downs vs Brown and their punter averaged a terrible 29 yards per punt.......not much there to build on

Georgetown has a fourth and fifth string QB (freshmen) if needed. No backup kickers, though.

[Sader87]

Hear a lot about the "Princeton curse" from our Pard brethren....we seem to be similarly cursed when we play the Eli. Holy Cross is 4-27 lifetime against Yale, which is almost inconceivable....far, far worse than other Ivy or BC for that matter.

On the flipside, we are actually 3-0 against Georgia lifetime.

[RichH2]

LU
LC
FU
HC
An all initials picks week.

[carney2]

Columbia @ LEHIGH - Sorry, but I cannot think of anything appropriate to say here.

BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS - Looked like a blowout in August. Looks like two shipwrecked guys fighting over the last piece of debris in October.

GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM - Two programs headed in opposite directions. Not expecting a competitive affair.

Princeton @ LAFAYETTE - The Curse on steroids. This is not a football game, it's an execution.

[DFW HOYA]

GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM - Two programs headed in opposite directions. Not expecting a competitive affair.

So which way is each going?

[Bogus Megapardus]

How about Game of the Week in the Patriot League?

* * * * *

That leaves us with Bucknell @ Holy Cross. Bucknell is pretty bad, but gave Cornell a tussle. Holy Cross seems to be deteriorating by the week. Can either of these teams get up off the mat? This is my choice.

I concur. Each of these two teams should believe that it has, and in fact each does have, a legitimate shot at beating the other. I'm very impressed with how Bucky shut down Cornell's QB last weekend; not so impressed with HC's effort in Allston. Performances of both teams this season, up to now, suggest that this will be a low scoring contest. But I don't think so. Assuming reasonable weather in Woo (high 50s/low 60s and dry) this could be an intense game with much scoring as each team most decidedly has a point to make.

[Bogus Megapardus]

On the flipside, we are actually 3-0 against Georgia lifetime.

Just like we're 3-0 against West Virginia. Glory days! xlolx

We've beaten Penn State 5 times, beaten Syracuse 3 times, beaten Pittsburgh 5 times, beaten Rutgers 30 times, and are undefeated against Villanova, Richmond and even Boston College.

But we can't beat friggin' Princeton.*










* Nor does it seem that we can beat Robert Morris U.

[TheValleyRaider]

4-2 last week, up to 20-10 for the year. Not quite a strong as the past, but still plenty of time to pick up the pace

Columbia at Lehigh Lehigh The God-king bleeds! Or at least does not appear invincible. It's not as if we didn't expect that, though Fordham being the team to give the Hawks a run may be the biggest suprise out of that game (at least for me). Does it now become a question of when Lehigh loses next, rather than if? Probably. And a matchup against an Ivy always looks treacher...oh wait, it's Columbia? Nevermind then. Until next week...

Bucknell at Holy Cross Holy Cross It is with great tentativeness that I lean towards the Crusaders in this one. I realize Harvard is a step above most schools on PL schedules, but 52-3? Yikes. Meanwhile, Bucknell looked game in a tough one with Cornell. I may still be of the opinion that Cornell should never be given credit for anything, so I'll just say good job Bison, sorry you couldn't pull it off. As for this League game? Give me the home team

Georgetown at Fordham Fordham Am I now a believer in the Rams? Maybe. Am I less of a believer in Georgetown? Yeah, kind of. I think the Hoyas are still a capable bunch, though they still do not seem to have captured whatever magic existed last season. Fordham looks improved, and maybe those scholarships will show some difference at last. Anyway, still sticking with the home team this time around

Princeton at Lafayette Lafayette Oh Lafayette. Am I really going to do this again? I admit, I find curses problematic. Perhaps because they go wrong just enough times to suggest there isn't truth to them. But then again, some things just always seem to go wrong. This is a longwinded way of saying I'm going to pick Lafayette (mostly because I think there's real ability there to contend for the League), even though a distinct part of me (or the contingent of Leopard fans on the board) is shouting not to ignore their complete inability to beat the Tigers. Maybe this will tell us if Princeton is any good? Or what do I know...

[Ivytalk]

Columbia @ LEHIGH - Sorry, but I cannot think of anything appropriate to say here.

BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS - Looked like a blowout in August. Looks like two shipwrecked guys fighting over the last piece of debris in October.

GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM - Two programs headed in opposite directions. Not expecting a competitive affair.

Princeton @ LAFAYETTE - The Curse on steroids. This is not a football game, it's an execution.

I agree with carney here, although Bucknell-HC is a virtual tossup in my mind.

[carney2]

So which way is each going?

Up vs. down

To scholarships vs. away from scholarships

To respectability vs. away from respectability

To competitive vs. away from competitive

Do I need to do more?

[RichH2]

Hoyas still good but a bit rudderless at Qb. Will either 1 or 2 play again? If so, when?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Curse. Overdone. IMO.

[Pard4Life]

Curse. Overdone. IMO.

The truthiness in the credibility and fantasy world quotes in your signature grow stronger every week with such statements.

[CFBfan]

Hoyas still good but a bit rudderless at Qb. Will either 1 or 2 play again? If so, when?

1 is done, 2 is in a boot

[DFW HOYA]

Up vs. down
To scholarships vs. away from scholarships
To respectability vs. away from respectability
To competitive vs. away from competitive
Do I need to do more?

There's a certain school of thought, expressed in this thread, akin to that of rooting for Duke in ACC football. If Duke suddenly becomes a top ACC team, the prevailing wisdom is not as much "that Duke team is great" as it is "hmmm...the ACC must be in trouble."

So it risks being the case with Georgetown. If the Hoyas can stay as a 7 and 8-win team without scholarships, what does that say about the PL's grand experiment? Conversely, is it "better" for the PL scholarship image to see Georgetown become instantly non-competitive and stir calls that they be drummed out (politely, of course) from the league? No.

The idea that Georgetown is actively moving away from respectability is neither supportable nor appropriate. If Lafayette was starting freshman Andrew Dzurik at QB, how would they be faring? If Skon continues to get drummed in the backfield as he did against Brown, you could see a 4th stringer in there. Inexperience in key positions isn't easy, but you fight through it.

It's more than reasonable to call Georgetown an underdog for each of the next three weeks. Anything more dire, and we can agree to disagree.

[RichH2]

Injuries are never fair. Underdog, but competitive, a fair description for Hoyas. A shame. It will just get more difficult in a few yrs.

[Pard4Life]

There's a certain school of thought, expressed in this thread, akin to that of rooting for Duke in ACC football. If Duke suddenly becomes a top ACC team, the prevailing wisdom is not as much "that Duke team is great" as it is "hmmm...the ACC must be in trouble."

Yeah, pretty much.

[carney2]

Curse. Overdone. IMO.

You have shown yourself to be a tool of the gods. Further discussion on this point is useless. If you haven't lived The Curse, you don't know The Curse.

[carney2]

If the Hoyas can stay as a 7 and 8-win team without scholarships, what does that say about the PL's grand experiment?

If they're at 7 or 8 wins beating the Davidsons and Marists of this world, it says nothing.

[DFW HOYA]

If they're at 7 or 8 wins beating the Davidsons and Marists of this world, it says nothing.

These teams may not be on future schedules. Then again, neither may be some PL teams if things go as poorly as some foretell.

[PJ McJorma]

Lehigh 41 - Columbia 17
Bucknell 17 - Holy Cross 7
Fordham 35 - Georgetown 17
LaFayette 23 - Princeton 20 OT

[Sader87]

New sheriff in town at QB for HC this week....Steve Elder (preseason #2, hurt in camp) Soph from San Antonio getting his 1st start this week.

[Pard4Life]

So Columbia complains of beatdowns by LC and drops us from the schedule, and then they go ahead and pencil in Lehigh? At least our games would usually be close.

[crusader11]

New sheriff in town at QB for HC this week....Steve Elder (preseason #2, hurt in camp) Soph from San Antonio getting his 1st start this week.

Which is great news. Apparently, he was the best QB coming out of spring ball and performed the best in the spring game. Excited to see what he can do. I hope the offense opens things up a bit. The 4 and 5 yard passes into the flat get pretty old and predictable....almost starting to look like big Frank's offense at Lafayette. xnodx

[carney2]

These teams may not be on future schedules. Then again, neither may be some PL teams if things go as poorly as some foretell.

Dr. Doom and Gloom. I say again, IF the Hoyas and the Patriot League end up parting company, it will be 100% Georgetown's decision. The League does not want a permanent tackling dummy as a member, but neither do they want to part company with an institution that is such a great fit in so many ways. Frankly, the folks in DC need to get their house in order. The football program is a rudderless ship and someone needs to make some seriously difficult decisions beyond "stay the course." The fate of non-basketball, non-revenue sports also needs to be part of this decision process. Does the University athletic budget really need to be transporting its volleyball team long distances to play against mega public universities? Is this part of the Georgetown vision?

Personally, I think that the Patriot League will bend in almost any way possible to accommodate the Hoyas. Any way, that is, except reduce the quality of football just to make Georgetown competitive while they do nothing. The ball is now, and has been for quite some time, in the Hoyas' court. They need to take a swing at it and stop relying on erudite folks like you to blame everyone but themselves for their problems. There is a word for what is needed in DC: PROACTIVE.

[carney2]

Which is great news. Apparently, he was the best QB coming out of spring ball and performed the best in the spring game. Excited to see what he can do. I hope the offense opens things up a bit. The 4 and 5 yard passes into the flat get pretty old and predictable....almost starting to look like big Frank's offense at Lafayette. xnodx

That's The Frankosaurus to you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You didn't ask me, but sometimes I think Georgetown's problem is that they want/need to run with the big dogs in the Big East in Olympic sports and hoops. Georgetown is a fantastic academic institution - the best in PL football. But they also, as carney says, need to flying the volleyball team to Houston to play SMU as part of league play. Somewhere, something's got to give, and that's fielding a $5 million football team. And I also say I can't blame Georgetown for making that decision.

You know what the best thing the NCAA could do for Georgetown? Make an FCS and FBS for hoops, and allow Georgetown to compete in "FBS" for hoops the way Army competes in FBS for football. Then the Hoyas could run track and play volleyball in the Patriot League - which is where they really belong in those sports - saving boatloads of money and allowing them to better fund football.

Speaking as an alum that watched Lehigh beat Duke, I'm not advocating such a hoops split. But it does illustrate the unique challenges that Georgetown (and, by extension, Villanova) face in terms of athletics. It also shows what opportunities might open up for the PL if it does happen. Suddenly, Georgetown in many sports, Villanova in many sports, maybe Richmond in many sports, and others leap into play. You might even see more basketball-only schools jump in again and compete in the FCS as well.

[JimboCBA72]

There's a certain school of thought, expressed in this thread, akin to that of rooting for Duke in ACC football. If Duke suddenly becomes a top ACC team, the prevailing wisdom is not as much "that Duke team is great" as it is "hmmm...the ACC must be in trouble."

So it risks being the case with Georgetown. If the Hoyas can stay as a 7 and 8-win team without scholarships, what does that say about the PL's grand experiment? Conversely, is it "better" for the PL scholarship image to see Georgetown become instantly non-competitive and stir calls that they be drummed out (politely, of course) from the league? No.

The idea that Georgetown is actively moving away from respectability is neither supportable nor appropriate. If Lafayette was starting freshman Andrew Dzurik at QB, how would they be faring? If Skon continues to get drummed in the backfield as he did against Brown, you could see a 4th stringer in there. Inexperience in key positions isn't easy, but you fight through it.

It's more than reasonable to call Georgetown an underdog for each of the next three weeks. Anything more dire, and we can agree to disagree.

As a Fordham fan, I am concerned about Saturday's game. Are the Rams improved? Vastly, Moorhead and his staff are doing wonders with what is essentially the same roster as last year's 1-10 disaster. But I watched the GT v Princeton game a few weeks back and the Hoya defense is legit. I am an old dog (Ram) who still believes defense wins games so any team with a good D scares me. Whether it is good enough to overcome mediocre QB play remains to be seen

[LUHawker]

As a Fordham fan, I am concerned about Saturday's game. Are the Rams improved? Vastly, Moorhead and his staff are doing wonders with what is essentially the same roster as last year's 1-10 disaster. But I watched the GT v Princeton game a few weeks back and the Hoya defense is legit. I am an old dog (Ram) who still believes defense wins games so any team with a good D scares me. Whether it is good enough to overcome mediocre QB play remains to be seen

Another worry-wart, fretting about Georgetown. Whether its because they are playing their 3rd string QB or not, G'Town has underwhelmed this year. That Princeton game was a fiasco and they were extremely fortunate to win that one. They got lit up by a weak Yale squad and barely got by Wagner.

Fordham, whose 1-10 record last year was not reflective of the talent there, is a solid team and if they play anywhere near how they did at Lehigh, will have no problems dispensing the Hoyas. G'town was improved last year, but benefited from a soft schedule, which made their "showdown" with Lehigh for the PL championship look more real than it should have. Aside from Lehigh, the PL was weaker last year and G'town was improved, so their success seemed more real. I think this year they are simply reverting to the mean.

[DFW HOYA]

You didn't ask me, but sometimes I think Georgetown's problem is that they want/need to run with the big dogs in the Big East in Olympic sports and hoops. Georgetown is a fantastic academic institution - the best in PL football. But they also, as carney says, need to flying the volleyball team to Houston to play SMU as part of league play. Somewhere, something's got to give, and that's fielding a $5 million football team. And I also say I can't blame Georgetown for making that decision.

You know what the best thing the NCAA could do for Georgetown? Make an FCS and FBS for hoops, and allow Georgetown to compete in "FBS" for hoops the way Army competes in FBS for football. Then the Hoyas could run track and play volleyball in the Patriot League - which is where they really belong in those sports - saving boatloads of money and allowing them to better fund football.



Appreciate the thoughts, but it's not a good analogy.

Georgetown track absolutely does not belong in the PL--it's a Top 15 program despite any facilities whatsoever (the teams trained at a local high school) and still won the NCAA women's cross country title last year. That level of athlete isn't coming to a PL school.

Same for soccer--both teams are now nationally ranked, in large part because the sports are close to fully funded. The only sports that really struggle to stay above water in the Big East are field hockey, baseball, and swimming (no pun intended), but the the Big East does not allow schools to play in other conferences if it is sponsoring a sport at that level.

The idea that fielding a large number of sports and/or competing in the Big East events is preventing a $5 million football budget is incorrect. The school has publicly stated (as noted in geat detail in threads last year) that the scholarship model advanced by Fordham and adopted by the rest of the PL does not fit its philosophy as an athletic program, whether the money was there or not (and it's not). That's neither good nor bad in a purely theoretical sense, but it's a competitive issue that can't be kicked down the road for very much longer.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Appreciate the thoughts, but it's not a good analogy.

Georgetown track absolutely does not belong in the PL--it's a Top 15 program despite any facilities whatsoever (the teams trained at a local high school) and still won the NCAA women's cross country title last year. That level of athlete isn't coming to a PL school.

Here's my question. For hoops, I see it very clearly: the Big East brand is huge. You want your school in Big East hoops. But does it hold the same cachet for track? If Georgetown competed in track in the Big East, CAA, PL or A-10, would it really make a huge difference? After all, there is no autobid in track - you get great individual athletes, and they all go to the same national NCAA competitions regardless of conference affiliation. Would they be any less great in track? Would they lose recruits?

In football, BYU chose to leave the Mountain West to join the WCC, a non-football conference, for its Olympic sports. They said, effectively, that they would rather allow football to do its own thing and stay (somewhat) more regional for its other sports. This is an avenue available to football schools, thanks to the FCS/FBS split, but not hoops schools, since they're all at the same level and can't differentiate. If it were to happen in hoops, isn't it something DiGioia would have to look at pretty closely?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The idea that fielding a large number of sports and/or competing in the Big East events is preventing a $5 million football budget is incorrect. The school has publicly stated (as noted in great detail in threads last year) that the scholarship model advanced by Fordham and adopted by the rest of the PL does not fit its philosophy as an athletic program, whether the money was there or not (and it's not). That's neither good nor bad in a purely theoretical sense, but it's a competitive issue that can't be kicked down the road for very much longer.

But then you're basically saying if Georgetown basketball were pulling in $100 million a year and paying for expenses on every other Olympic sport, and there were $20 million in surplus every year of "leftover" hoops money, they still wouldn't pay to scholarship football players. You obviously follow it a lot closer than myself, but I'm not sure I buy that. I am still convinced that money is an issue, whether stated or unstated.

[DFW HOYA]

Here's my question. For hoops, I see it very clearly: the Big East brand is huge. You want your school in Big East hoops. But does it hold the same cachet for track? If Georgetown competed in track in the Big East, CAA, PL or A-10, would it really make a huge difference? After all, there is no autobid in track - you get great individual athletes, and they all go to the same national NCAA competitions regardless of conference affiliation. Would they be any less great in track? Would they lose recruits?

For other conferences that do not offer full scholarship track, the impact on recruiting would be significant.



In football, BYU chose to leave the Mountain West to join the WCC, a non-football conference, for its Olympic sports. They said, effectively, that they would rather allow football to do its own thing and stay (somewhat) more regional for its other sports. This is an avenue available to football schools, thanks to the FCS/FBS split, but not hoops schools, since they're all at the same level and can't differentiate. If it were to happen in hoops, isn't it something DiGioia would have to look at pretty closely?

The BYU case is an outlier because BYU's TV commitment through BYU-TV drives their decision on football. The school has a quasi-open invite to the Big 12 or the Big East but is unwilling to give up BYU-TV because of its strategic role in the LDS. "Parking" non-revenue sports in another confernece is only availabnle to conferences which allow it, but most do not outside the WAC, MWC, and the low-major conferneces like the Summit and Horizon. Put another way, If Lehigh suddenly suggested it wanted to play football and basketball in the CAA and park its women's and non-rev sports in the PL, would the PL allow it? Of course not.




But then you're basically saying if Georgetown basketball were pulling in $100 million a year and paying for expenses on every other Olympic sport, and there were $20 million in surplus every year of "leftover" hoops money, they still wouldn't pay to scholarship football players. You obviously follow it a lot closer than myself, but I'm not sure I buy that. I am still convinced that money is an issue, whether stated or unstated.

$100 million is not realistic--there is a finite limit on ticket sales which Georgetown is already close to reaching and even if the Big East received a Big 10-sized TV contract, that might add to a non-IA school another $6-8 million a year, not $100 million. That amount would go fairly quickly with Title IX, improving salaries, and addressing the facilities issues, and even if there were some made available to football, it wouldn't cover 60 scholarships.

[UAalum72]

but the the Big East does not allow schools to play in other conferences if it is sponsoring a sport at that level.Providence women's volleyball is in America East, even though BE also sponsors it. Is that the only exception? Or do they only allow one sport per school to go elsewhere?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For other conferences that do not offer full scholarship track, the impact on recruiting would be significant.

The PL allows full scholarships to be offered in track, it bears noting, if the institution wishes it and they qualify through the AI. At the NCAA level they need to adhere to Title IX, but there's nothing explicit in the Patriot League that they are restricted from offering track scholarships. I don't know bylaws of other leagues, but I believe many are similar.

[Pard4Life]

I think everyone is dancing around and hinting at a main point here: is Georgetown better-off, or at least have a sound basis for, eliminating football?

[DFW HOYA]

The last two years have been among the strongest football has been institutionally at Georgetown in years. Saturday's game at the MSF was sold out a day early, the crowd was the second largest in the PL era, and if there were more seats, a couple thousand more could easily have been sold that day....and that's with no local promotion outside the campus.

[van]

So Columbia complains of beatdowns by LC and drops us from the schedule, and then they go ahead and pencil in Lehigh? At least our games would usually be close.

We can make it close too!

[van]

Another worry-wart, fretting about Georgetown. Whether its because they are playing their 3rd string QB or not, G'Town has underwhelmed this year. That Princeton game was a fiasco and they were extremely fortunate to win that one. They got lit up by a weak Yale squad and barely got by Wagner.

Fordham, whose 1-10 record last year was not reflective of the talent there, is a solid team and if they play anywhere near how they did at Lehigh, will have no problems dispensing the Hoyas. G'town was improved last year, but benefited from a soft schedule, which made their "showdown" with Lehigh for the PL championship look more real than it should have. Aside from Lehigh, the PL was weaker last year and G'town was improved, so their success seemed more real. I think this year they are simply reverting to the mean.

+1, Fordham is for real this year.

[Franks Tanks]

+1, Fordham is for real this year.

I agree Fordham look good, but I think they will still lose 1 or 2 more games outside of Cincy. They are still a bit young and mistake prone.

I think Lafayette and Colgate will be serious challengers for Lehigh down the stretch. Both teams have major flaws but can easily take down the hawks if they play well. Lehigh is good, but much closer to the pack than last year. I see Georgetown losing 2-3 league games. They are a good scrappy bunch, but they still have a talent gap. I don't see Holy Cross or Bucknell challenging unless they can upgrade their respective offenses a great deal in the newx few weeks. They can certainly pull a few upsets, but I don't think they can find consistency.

[crusader11]

I don't see Holy Cross or Bucknell challenging unless they can upgrade their respective offenses a great deal in the newx few weeks. They can certainly pull a few upsets, but I don't think they can find consistency.

We'll find out a lot about the direction HC is headed in the rest of the season as Steven Elder, who was the backup QB coming out of camp and just as good as Kevin Watson, is healthy and starting. No team in the PL is THAT better than another this year. Will make for a very fun and interesting next month and a half.

[Franks Tanks]

We'll find out a lot about the direction HC is headed in the rest of the season as Steven Elder, who was the backup QB coming out of camp and just as good as Kevin Watson, is healthy and starting. No team in the PL is THAT better than another this year. Will make for a very fun and interesting next month and a half.

I agree. Holy Cross can probably still beat anyone, but will of course need improved QB play to do so.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I agree Fordham look good, but I think they will still lose 1 or 2 more games outside of Cincy. They are still a bit young and mistake prone.

Their development this October will determine whether they're in line for a possible playoff berth or simply just a much, much better team than last year. I was very impressed with them.

[eiu1999]

Columbia @ LEHIGH
BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE

[Hawk98]

Columbia @ LEHIGH
BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE

[Engineer86]

Columbia @ LEHIGH
Bucknell @ HOLY CROSS
Georgetown @ FORDHAM
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE

[ColgateTD]

No dog in the fight this week.

Engineers
Rams
Bison
Leopards

21-9 so far

[ngineer]

Lehigh should roll so long as the players don't take a page from the Lafayette playbook and take the Lions lightly. It would be nice to see some backups get in to see what they can do, but I doubt it. Also, rain a possibility. Barring any weird stuff happening I see Lehigh 41-13.

Bucknell at least seems to have a pulse. What has befallen the Crusaders?! I would typically go with the home team on this one, but HC is literally "on the brink". Gilmore has big motivational issues as last week's embarrassment. I'm going with the Bison based on performance to date, 22-14.

Fordham has the skill players and the coaching to make this a solid win. Georgetown is erratic and now with a QB problem. Bronx Zoo not a good place to be thrown to the wolves. I see the Rams winning 31-17.

Does "The Curse" continue as the Spotted Pussies get their panties tied knots at the sight of stripes? After last week, quite possible. Moreover, the Tigers are improved and seem to have some momentum. I going with the "Tiger Rag" as opposed to the bloody rag. Princeton 25-23. Yes a weird score--something weird always seems to occur in this game.

Colgate is out of the tube with its main squeeze.

Was 5-2 last week. Missed on the Hoyas and Leotards.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh should roll so long as the players don't take a page from the Lafayette playbook and take the Lions lightly. It would be nice to see some backups get in to see what they can do, but I doubt it. Also, rain a possibility. Barring any weird stuff happening I see Lehigh 41-13.

Half of the Lehigh team could be abducted and still win this game easily. No contest.

[Pard4Life]

Bogie: what's the explanation for this week's avatar? A knock at Princeton's traditional image of a WASP, stuffy, exclusive elite institution with a mocking of their student culture as seen by your avatar of a 'in-your-face' urban image?

[Fordham]

Columbia @ LEHIGH
BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE

I'll take one of these, please

[carney2]

Bogie: what's the explanation for this week's avatar? A knock at Princeton's traditional image of a WASP, stuffy, exclusive elite institution with a mocking of their student culture as seen by your avatar of a 'in-your-face' urban image?

It's from that Ivy League Hustle video that you refused to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDhf9qwiA34&feature=youtu.be

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Bucknell 21 Holy Cross 17 - The Bison almost beat HC in Lewisburg last year. I think they get over the hump on Saturday

Fordham 34 Georgetown 13 - The Hoyas are in big trouble.

Princeton 24 Lafayette 20 - The Tigers will prove to be a very solid team in the IL. The 'Pards will regroup, just not this week...

Lehigh 42 Columbia 13 - Lehigh should be able to physically dominate the Lions. The Lions 2-deep looks like it could be from 1974. I haven't see a D1 football team as small as CU, in, well...ever...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Something that might have flown under the radar this week:

http://www.theramonline.com/sports/last-second-field-goal-lifts-no-11-lehigh-over-fordham-34-31-1.2772946#.UGy2s65imdw


A loss like that can demoralize a team, its effect potentially lingering for weeks. Fordham head coach Joe Moorhead knows his team cannot afford for that to happen — there are still six games to play.

“This is a very resilient group,” Moorhead said. “There’s a lot of fight in this team and the message in the locker room was we can’t let this beat us twice.”

I don't think Fordham will be going away soon. Just a hunch. They will get better, starting with this week.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogie: what's the explanation for this week's avatar?

This:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDhf9qwiA34

[Lehigh'98]

Bucknell 21 Holy Cross 17 - The Bison almost beat HC in Lewisburg last year. I think they get over the hump on Saturday

Fordham 34 Georgetown 13 - The Hoyas are in big trouble.

Princeton 24 Lafayette 20 - The Tigers will prove to be a very solid team in the IL. The 'Pards will regroup, just not this week...

Lehigh 42 Columbia 13 - Lehigh should be able to physically dominate the Lions. The Lions 2-deep looks like it could be from 1974. I haven't see a D1 football team as small as CU, in, well...ever...


Sounds about right

[Bogus Megapardus]

Columbia at Lehigh - The Lions' 39 total yards rushing last week vs. Princeton are overshadowed by the fact that they actually lost 55 yards on the ground. Columbia was thought to have at least some defensive prowess, but Princeton QB Connor Michelsen had scorched the powder-blue pablum by the time he was pulled in the 3rd quarter. Andy Coen will send in the cheerleading squad once he hits the 5 TD mark. Lehigh 35-10.

Bucknell at Holy Cross - This is the most competitive of the Patriot games this week. The Cursaders have a thing or three to prove both to the Fitton faithful and to those Buckyballers who think that they're ever so close. "Have at you!" will be the call of the day. Those imagining that the final score will tally only in the single digits (combined) are mistaken. The Buffalo will jump to an early lead but they'll get Crossed late in the game. Holy Cross 27-21.

Georgetown at Fordham - I put up a Fordham avatar during the game last week, thinking that it might assist the Rams in their effort to overcome those insufferable Saucon Squawkins'. They came mighty close - much closer than the Flailing FiOS Pygalgia will come to the Bronx Ewes this week. Fordham 24-17.

Princeton at Lafayette - Letter from Carney to the Pardsvillians, 10:6 - "Thou shalt give no nods to the gods who accurse thee." Regrettably, Pardsvillian scripture says nothing about bending your end for a biblical flagellation. We, the chosen martyrs, shall yield to the Paw of Orange once again. Princeton 21-20.

Colgate - A bye to power up for the Crusaders next week.

[DFW HOYA]

To sum up the experts...

"Lehigh unstopped."
"Lafayette surprising."
"Fordham resurgent."
"Holy Cross sees a losing season under Gilmore."
"Bucknell...meh."
"Georgetown doesn't care about football like we do."

What, did the board revert to 2004 or something?

N.B. Georgetown has no TV contract with Verizon this year. Must be that pressured applied from Easton...

[RichH2]

Hoyas need a QB. Tough luck. But does remove sheen of competitiveness. GU has a number of very good players and they probably will continue to get them. The talent level of the other schools will outpace GU. Very occasionally GU will put together a squad with some exceptional skills players. You should not be surprised that some conclude that GU does not care about football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hoyas need a QB. Tough luck. But does remove sheen of competitiveness. GU has a number of very good players and they probably will continue to get them. The talent level of the other schools will outpace GU. Very occasionally GU will put together a squad with some exceptional skills players. You should not be surprised that some conclude that GU does not care about football.

Watch Jeremy Moore for about five plays, and then tell me GU doesn't care about football. The kid is good. Real good.

Georgetown will continue to win football games this year. Will they be able to beat Lehigh, though? We'll find out in two weeks.

[RichH2]

As I said GU will get some exceptional players. I did not say players, students and coaches dont care. The University itself cannot or will not care enuf to find a way to support the sport even at some modestly better level. In 4-5 yrs they will rarely be competitive, if ever. They will be facing at least 5 basically full schollie
teams.

Doubt they can beat us without a Qb. It wont be a rout but they wont score much.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I expect to be watching the north plains Bison in Fargo this weekend, escorting my YSU alum partner. I am a loyal Bucknellian but Worcester is more than another day's drive to watch 1-3 vs. 0-4... 36+hours in the car is worth avoiding the YSU broadcast duo alone...

Columbia @ LEHIGH--
The cupcake festival continues at Goodman. God save the Brown Smudge and their ranking should they falter.
BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS--
Hmm, now Bucknell enters the uphill road section of their schedule. Their defense has had them in the game for their three losses. The permissive Crusader defense could be the tonic for the offense that seems able to to cover territory outside the red zone, maybe even break the elusive 20pt barrier.
GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM --
Is Fordham a postseason contender? Georgetown is still the potential nightmare for the rest of the PL.
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE-- I am rooting for the Spots in the Spots-Stripes Cat Fight. Princeton has shown up to play every week. The Leopards missed a half. Merlot for the tailgating, and a nutty Emmentaler to top your swedish crisp-bread at the toniest IVY-PL game ... since Yale-Georgetown.

[PAllen]

Columbia @ LEHIGH
BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE

[Pard4Life]

Last week: 5-1. Season: 24-6.

Lehigh 52, Columbia 7... target practice.

Bucknell 24, Holy Cross 10... it's simple: Bison play tough and aggressive defense, while HC is playing a new QB and is having trouble scoring points.

Fordham 28, Georgetown 14... Sure, emotional loss last week for the Rams, but Hoyas are just what the doctor ordered: they never win on Rose Hill and are down to their third-string QB.

Princeton 21, Lafayette 17... Cat Fight!!! Logical mind: Princeton has pourous pass defense. Lafayette likes to pass. Princeton's QB play is erratic. We have a strong secondary. Paranoid mind: Lafayette always lays an egg after emotional losses. Tavani says he is no prophet, but was sure mistakes would haunt team in future. Last week the OL got away with bad blocking but Princeton has great DLs. Illogical Mind: Something unexplainable and bizarre will happen in Tigger's favor, like a hurricane. It's a curse game.

[Pard4Life]

Quiet week here... Lehigh posters must be taking the week off for CU... they haven't said anything illogical, off base, or insane yet this week.

[van]

Quiet week here... Lehigh posters must be taking the week off for CU... they haven't said anything illogical, off base, or insane yet this week.

You guys are more than making up for us with illogical, off base and insane.

[RichH2]

The CURSE has Pards all atwitter. I look forward to P4L's game thread. Should rival the RMU thread for angst.

[van]

The CURSE has Pards all atwitter. I look forward to P4L's game thread. Should rival the RMU thread for angst.

Agree, nothing better than to hear them beat themselves up!

[Pard4Life]

You guys are more than making up for us with illogical, off base and insane.

Yeah that was a weak attempt on my part. But hey, our talk on Princeton does sound like it's from the twilight zone.

[Pard4Life]

The CURSE has Pards all atwitter. I look forward to P4L's game thread. Should rival the RMU thread for angst.

No I'll actually be at this one... though it's rather pointless. Just put it in the L column already. No angst at all; it's a forgone conclusion.

[RichH2]

Actually think you will win, but I will miss your thread. If your OL can at least slow down PU Dline and give Shoop some time he can light up their 2ndary. If not he will be on the run.

[Bogus Megapardus]

they haven't said anything illogical, off base, or insane yet this week.

Those characteristics become self-actualizing over time.

[Hawk98]

Quiet week here... Lehigh posters must be taking the week off for CU... they haven't said anything illogical, off base, or insane yet this week.

Lafayette losing to Robert Morris does all the talking Lehigh fans need to do this week.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My gut feeling is that Lafayette will be ready to play this week, unlike in Pittsburgh last week. They have to be. Their wake-up call was last week.

If they don't wake up, it's going to be a long month for the Leopards.

[Bogus Megapardus]

This week's Ivy/Patriot sportsbook:

Lehigh (-24) vs Columbia

Holy Cross (-3) vs Bucknell

Harvard (-17) vs Cornell

Brown (-13) at Rhode Island

Fordham (-10) vs Georgetown

W&M (-3) at Penn

Lafayette (-4) vs Princeton

Dartmouth (nl) at Yale


* * * * * * * * *

Other games possibly of interest to certain PL fans:

Villanova (-3½) vs Richmond

Delaware (-9) vs Maine

Wofford (-17) vs Furman

North Dakota State (-10) vs Youngstown State

[crusader11]

North Dakota State (-10) vs Youngstown State

Surprised at that spread. Thought it would be closer to a field goal in favor of NDSU.

[Pard4Life]

Yes NDSU is much too high. Our game is about right. Same with Lehigh. Not sure how HC is favored vs Bucknell.

[Pard4Life]

Actually think you will win, but I will miss your thread. If your OL can at least slow down PU Dline and give Shoop some time he can light up their 2ndary. If not he will be on the run.

Very naive Rich... havent you learned by now? I actually bet $5 on Princeton this week with friend to prove a point.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Surprised at that spread. Thought it would be closer to a field goal in favor of NDSU.

Massey predicts 28-21 in favor of NDSU. I haven't actually watched either of these undefeated powerhouse teams play this season so I can't really get a good feel for how this game will pan out. I won't make a prediction because I'd have to go just by stats, rankings, polls and what others are saying about them (this is why I don't vote in the AGS poll, either). Youngstown State's 31-17 opening game defeat of Pitt really does stand out, though . . . .

What I can say for sure is that this looks to be perhaps the best FCS game of this season, and one of the best FCS games in quite a while (aside from App State at Montana in 2009, of course).

The Youngstown/NDSU game will be on ESPN3 at 2:00 PM (EST) Saturday. It's homecoming for the Bison; packed and very loud Fargo Dome, I would assume.

[Sader87]

Yes NDSU is much too high. Our game is about right. Same with Lehigh. Not sure how HC is favored vs Bucknell.

Not to beat a dead horse, but HC has lost to 3 good to very good teams (UNH, Brown and Harvard) on their way to their ignominious 0-4 record. They really are just a few plays away from being 2-2....a loss to the Bison at home this weekend and then and only then will I put them in the "bad team" column.

[ngineer]

Agree, nothing better than to hear them beat themselves up!

The one thing they are great at is playing with themselves...(;-)

[Pard4Life]

The one thing they are great at is playing with themselves...(;-)

That wink is disturbing.

[Pard4Life]

Over 130 years later, it's still the same crap and stupidity from Lehigh:

"the worst defeat Lafayette has had to suffer was a game won by Princeton in 1884 by a score of 140-0. Some years later, a Lehigh publication taunted Lafayette with this score, but The Lafayette came back by calling attention to the fact that the same team that suffered the ignominious defeat beat Lehigh 56-0 and it propounded the query "What would have been the score if Princeton had played Lehigh that year?" - F.A. March, 1926

[RichH2]

Kind of sad when you have to rely on events 130 yrs ago, when Pards were relevant.

[Pards Rule]

Pards bounce back this week!

[Sader87]

22-8 on the year, 4-2 last week. Only four games on the docket this week.

Lehigh 38 Columbia 10 Engineers beat up on the hapless Lions having eked by the last three weeks.

HC 31 Bucknell 20 In Elder we trust!!!

Fordham 27 GTown 17 Intriguing PL game..."end of the beginning for FU....beginning of the end for GU?"

Lafayette 23 Princeton 17 Curse be damned, the Pards are ready after getting trapped by RMU last week.

[jimbo65]

Not worth a separate thread so I am putting it here. A poster on the Fordham board, who has had good info in the past, related that Jeff Gray, who was the AD's boss went to the BOT with a proposal to move to the PL. This was before the new AD arrive. The plan was rejected and the AD position moved to report to the CFO. Gray is now out of the fball loop. I have never met Gray but judging from comments over the years on the Fordham Board he is despised by many.

[ColgateTD]

Not worth a separate thread so I am putting it here. A poster on the Fordham board, who has had good info in the past, related that Jeff Gray, who was the AD's boss went to the BOT with a proposal to move to the PL. This was before the new AD arrive. The plan was rejected and the AD position moved to report to the CFO. Gray is now out of the fball loop. I have never met Gray but judging from comments over the years on the Fordham Board he is despised by many.

FWIW Dep't: Dave Roach, former Colgate AD, took the Rams AD job just a week or so ago. Not that this has anything to do with the above.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh 31, Columbia 13

Fordham 34, Georgetown 6 - The Rams are simply that good.

Bucknell 19, Holy Cross 13 - I've seen a lot more from Bucknell than Holy Cross thus far.

Lafayette 21, Princeton 19 - The Leopards get it back together after their Pittsburgh alarm-clock.

[Sader87]

22-8 on the year, 4-2 last week. Only four games on the docket this week.

Lehigh 38 Columbia 10 Engineers beat up on the hapless Lions having eked by the last three weeks.

HC 31 Bucknell 20 In Elder we trust!!!

Fordham 27 GTown 17 Intriguing PL game..."end of the beginning for FU....beginning of the end for GU?"

Lafayette 23 Princeton 17 Curse be damned, the Pards are ready after getting trapped by RMU last week.

3-1, the Curse got me.

Just a general impression but the league seems to be pretty down this year. The Bucknell-Holy Cross game was painful to watch in both team's offensive ineptitude.

[Hawk98]

Columbia @ LEHIGH
BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
Princeton @ LAFAYETTE
3-1. Damn Leopards.

[RichH2]

Same for me, 2 weeks in a row.
Didn't mean to be rude. Welcome aboard 98.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

3-1, lost on the Bison...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Too much faith in Bucknell to find a way to beat winless Holy Cross. And, boy does the Curse live.

[ngineer]

3-1 myself, thanks to the Bison. I thought they could score some points. I guess not. And I'm believing in The Curse.

[ColgateTD]

2-2 myself thanks to Bison ineptitude and the Leopard's meltdown. What gives with the Pards this year?...Jekyll & Hyde...

[Pard4Life]

3-1, missed on Bison. Knew the game would possibly be decided by one TD and FGs, but it sounded like a recipe for Bison success. 28-7 on the year. I may be leading this sorry pick-fest.