Future Payton Winner?

[Ronbo]

Here's a nice poster or desktop of Lex Hilliard. 6'0" 225 lbs, 4.5 forty.

http://crnich.dyndns.org/Griz-2005-640x480.jpg

640x480 size (http://crnich.dyndns.org/Griz-2005-640x480.jpg)

800x600 size (http://crnich.dyndns.org/Griz-2005-800x600.jpg)

1152x824 size (http://crnich.dyndns.org/Griz-2005-1152x824.jpg)

[ChickenMan]

Is that the same guy I saw go... 12 carries for 26 yrds vs JMU...??? ;)

[Ronbo]

Yeah and the same guy that went 175 yards and 4 TD's against Northwestern State, the #1 rushing defense in the nation. Don't anyone bring up the NC game, a decent field would have favored the Griz. We also stayed with regulation cleats.

[colgate13]

We also stayed with regulation cleats.

Oh don't bring that one up again! :mad:

Can you please tell me where one buys anything but regulation cleats!??!?!!

[ChickenMan]

JMU sure didn't seem to have a problem with that 'field'... as they rushed for over 300 yrds in that same game... :D

[Ronbo]

JMU sure didn't seem to have a problem with that 'field'... as they rushed for over 300 yrds in that same game... :D

It's pathetic that some A-10 fans live off the glory of their Conference mates. At least we were in the NC game last season with a freshman and sophmore dominated defense. Where did Delaware and Colgate go? :confused:

[ChickenMan]

UD living off JMU's 'glory'???... that's a good one... it's much more likely that the Cubbies will be basking in the 'glow' of them MSU Bobcats... :p

PS... don't take this too seriously... me thinkest thou do protest too much... :D

[bluehenbillk]

Are Ronbo & UMassFan the same person? "We would've beat Colgate if it didn't snow", "JMU used illagal cleats in the bad field conditions".

Just admit that for 60 minutes you weren't the better team.

[eaglesrthe1]

I can't see Hilliard getting enough touches to be a Payton award winner.

[GrizFoo]

Let the field conditions go Ronbo. Both teams had to deal with it.
And the GSU fan has a point. We've got a passing OC, he does not like to run the ball. This is one time where I like Hauck messing with the coordinators, because I think he will 'recommend' more running. And in this case he would be right, the Griz will have to run a lot more, out of more run type formations too if they are going to be effective.
But, Lex is a stud regardless of what he did in the JMU game. The Griz were passing most of the game and running out of spread fomations, and Lex along with Waller were recovering from staff(sp) infections.
Lex will turn some heads this year, and will be the number 1 back all year, like he should have been last year. He may not get a ton of carries, but he should get enough, and if our OC has anything in his head he will pass to Lex as well because he is also faster than virtually all, if not all of our WRs. Though that isn't say much, since we also have an LB and DE who are faster than most of our WRs.

[Pard94]

Oh don't bring that one up again! :mad:

Can you please tell me where one buys anything but regulation cleats!??!?!!


Illegal Cleats 'R Us

[Josh]

Lex is certainly a legit Payton Candidate and a great kid. Interviewing him was a pleasure!!!

[CrunchGriz]

I can't see Hilliard getting enough touches to be a Payton award winner.

I think a lot of folks out there feel this way, because Montana has traditionally been a very pass-dominated offense, just as I don't see how any GSU QB could throw enough passes to be considered for the Payton.

But then how do you explain Tracy Ham?

The point is, Montana will do whatever is necessary on offense this year, with two unproven QBs. Maybe they'll be great and continue Montana's long line of fine QBs. But maybe they won't, and it'll end up being Hilliard left, Hilliard right, Hilliard up the middle for the whole season. A veteran offensive line in front of him may make that an easier task, even with a lacking passing game.

Coach Hauck has shown that he's willing to realign to almost anything when the situation demands it. For example (and you GSU folks will probably be amazed by this), two years ago, when both the number one and two QBs were down with injuries (Ochs and Disney), Hauck and Co. came out and ran primarily option against Idaho, something unseen in Montana's playbook to any degree for almost 20 years, and so befuddled Idaho's defense that Montana ran away to an easy victory.

As noted above, Hilliard is also a great target out of the backfield, should the coaching staff decide that shorter passes like flares and screens help settle down the inexperienced QBs. Also, Montana has some history of running, even recently. Yo Humphrey was an All-American running for the Griz up through 2001, gaining 1600+ yards in his senior season.

It could happen. Yo was great, but a large proportion of Griz fans think Hilliard is better--he's bigger and faster (though not as shifty).

[GannonFan]

The difference there is that as a QB, you don't have to be a great passer to win the Payton Award - a QB who can run as well as Tracy Ham did can surely be a good Payton candidate. As a RB, well, you pretty much run - they haven't really created the offense yet where the RB can effectively pass as well. :)

[Eagle_77]

I think a lot of folks out there feel this way, because Montana has traditionally been a very pass-dominated offense, just as I don't see how any GSU QB could throw enough passes to be considered for the Payton.
But then how do you explain Tracy Ham?


While Tracy didnt throw for 3,000 a season like a lot of QB's he was a very effective passer. The first QB in D1 history to run and pass for over 3,000 yards in a career.

Gannon says it perfect. A QB can win a game and be good a many different aspects while a running back it just that a running back.

[CrunchGriz]

You guys are missing the point. The argument was that Hilliard wouldn't see enough touches to get the Payton, probably based on the fact that Montana is primarily a passing team.

My point was that teams that traditionally do one thing offensively almost to the exclusion of the other (e.g., GSU and the option, Montana and the pass) sometimes go the other way when circumstances dictate (GSU passed a lot more when Ham was there, because he was a good passer; Montana ran option when it had to in 2003, ran a lot more in 2001 when it had Yo Humphery, and will almost certainly run more than usual this year because they have a known big-play back [Hilliard] and an untried QB corps).

And obviously just because Hilliard isn't going to be passing doesn't mean he can't win the Payton. Several RBs have won the Payton recently.

My point in bringing up Tracy Ham was that GSU, known almost exclusively as a running team, passed more when it had a good passer. It was a tribute to him, not a slam. Montana will do likewise this year, but in the other direction--to running.

Lex winning the Payton may not be highly likely, but don't bet against it, especially based on Montana's past.

[Mr. C]

Yeah and the same guy that went 175 yards and 4 TD's against Northwestern State, the #1 rushing defense in the nation. Don't anyone bring up the NC game, a decent field would have favored the Griz. We also stayed with regulation cleats.
If the Montana equipment manager didn't adjust to the field conditions, he should have been fired for not doing his job properly. That is something that is just as important as play calling and game plans etc. I think it was pretty clear to most unbiased fans that the better team won the championship game. Don't soil Montana's fine run by making excuses.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh easily has two, QB Mark Borda this year and Eric Rath in 2006. Rath might make the watch list a time or two this year. I think Borda could easily be a finalist. His numbers will be good enough if he stays healthy, he needs the W's to gather the rest of the attention.

[Grizo406]

UD living off JMU's 'glory'???... that's a good one... it's much more likely that the Cubbies will be basking in the 'glow' of them MSU Bobcats... :p


Shame on you...quit being a bully, ChickenMan. ;)

[JMU Duke Dog]

Delaware does not need to live off of JMU's glory.

[eaglesrthe1]

Crunch, I find it interesting that you would speculate that the Griz would all of a sudden switch their offensive emphasis to the running game when you were the author of the thread on the strong Montana QB tradition.


we don't rebuild, we reload!

While anything is possible, I don't see it happening. Montana may very well become a more balanced offensive team like in 01, but I don't think that would be enough of a shift. They would have to shift even further to become a run dominated team.

Unless the Griz plan on using Hilliard similar to the way that Colgate used Branch, then he won't get the required # of touches.

The only other alternative would be to use him like Villanova used Westbrook and let him return punts and kickoffs, and catch a lot more out of the backfield. Just about anything to put the ball in his hands.

The 1600 yds that Yohance gained was over a 16 game season, while the Payton award is voted on after the regular season. That 175 yds that Hilliard gained against NorthWestern would have to become closer to his typical game, rather than his best like last year. Just the same with Montana running the option for that one game, I can't see something like that becoming the rule, rather than the exception.


It is that strong Montana QB tradition that makes me belive that Hilliard won't see the ball enough to win the award. While UM may not have a proven QB this year, that doesn't mean that they will be so lacking in the position that they will abandon their gameplan of the last few years. I belive that they will just start to build the next QB in that traditional line, and Hilliard will be a strong compliment to the offense, not the focus.

Like you said though, anything can happen. I just think that this is what will transpire.

[twentythreeOh4]

Are Ronbo & UMassFan the same person? "We would've beat Colgate if it didn't snow", "JMU used illagal cleats in the bad field conditions".


No, but they have the same IQ.

[Blazerbird]

Have you all noticed how this thread's topic has changed? I agree that Lex Hilliard's a great running back and Montana has some great players, but for some reason that's not enough for some Montana fans. They elevate their team's play to levels out of reach by all others and defend poor play and deficiencies through excuses and qualification. I like and respect the Montana Grizzlies even though I'm an Eastern Eagle to the core, but some of their fans need to remove the blinders every now and then.

[CrunchGriz]

Have you all noticed how this thread's topic has changed? I agree that Lex Hilliard's a great running back and Montana has some great players, but for some reason that's not enough for some Montana fans. They elevate their team's play to levels out of reach by all others and defend poor play and deficiencies through excuses and qualification. I like and respect the Montana Grizzlies even though I'm an Eastern Eagle to the core, but some of their fans need to remove the blinders every now and then.

Blazerbird: Please demonstrate where I "elevate[d] [my] team's play to levels out of reach by all others", or "defend[ed] poor play and deficiencies through excuses and qualification."

In fact, I was pretty clear in stating that Lex has a shot at the Payton this or next year because of a potential deficiency in the Griz offense this year--the QB position, and to a slightly lesser extent, its receiving corps, which is pretty inexperienced as well. I don't know how what I've written could be construed as high and almighty as you make it sound.

Don't worry, your EWU Eagles are the frontrunner in the BSC this year, and even most die-hard Griz fans are willing to concede it. You've got a lot of offensive weapons coming back. Erik Meyer is probably the leading Payton candidate this year. He may only lose because some of his votes are taken away by your other Eric.

And to eaglesrthe1, you've made some good points. Montana may not shift enough of its offensive emphasis to the run to enable Lex to get the Payton, and I did state that Montana has a history of reloading at QB, but I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea if they've "reloaded" this particular time. Bergquist is almost a complete unknown because he has no I-AA or any other college game experience and is only a redshirt freshman, and Washington is a transfer without a particular history of being a good passer. Neither seized the position by the throat and held anyone's imagination in spring ball. That's not to say that one of them may not become that franchise player that Montana is used to at the QB position (and I'm betting that Bergquist will become that in time, from reports I've read), but it's not going to happen immediately, and that's where Lex comes in, particularly this year.

Last year, when Lex finally started getting most of the rushing touches, UM had a QB who was lighting up most everyone he faced in addition to Lex at RB. That took away from the emphasis the Griz had on him. That most likely will not be the case this year. Most Griz fans think he will approach the 175 yd/game zone this year, out of necessity if nothing else. That's probably unrealistic, and it may be through maroon-colored glasses, but it's not out of the ballpark and it is a common thought amongst the Griz Nation.

[Blazerbird]

I just happened to notice on one of your other posts that you felt the production of Montana's last five quarterbacks was "an unbelievable level of consistent top-notch performance, probably unmatched in I-AA history." Also, you stated that these quarterbacks' presence in "five of the last ten I-AA championship games, (is) a record unmatched in I-AA history." I don't know a lot about college football history, but apparently there are those around here who do and they've been able to disprove your statements. Normally, I wouldn't care. Idle rhetoric and conversation is fun. Personally though, I'd have my details together if I were going to make such lofty claims. Finally, I've rarely heard a Griz fan admit their team got outplayed. Most of your faithful attribute last year's losses to 1.) Hot Weather, 2.) Unforced Turnovers, and 3.) Poor Field Conditions. Look, I'm the first to tell people that the Griz are still the class of the conference, and the favorite to win the Big Sky Championship. I always hope my team can be a NC contender, too. But no matter how my team plays, I'll never get caught living in the past or the future. You've got to appreciate what you've got today.

[umassfan]

No, but they have the same IQ.

Leave the **** talk elsewhere unless you wana get smaked the **** up

[CrunchGriz]

I just happened to notice on one of your other posts that you felt the production of Montana's last five quarterbacks was "an unbelievable level of consistent top-notch performance, probably unmatched in I-AA history." Also, you stated that these quarterbacks' presence in "five of the last ten I-AA championship games, (is) a record unmatched in I-AA history." I don't know a lot about college football history, but apparently there are those around here who do and they've been able to disprove your statements. Normally, I wouldn't care. Idle rhetoric and conversation is fun. Personally though, I'd have my details together if I were going to make such lofty claims. Finally, I've rarely heard a Griz fan admit their team got outplayed. Most of your faithful attribute last year's losses to 1.) Hot Weather, 2.) Unforced Turnovers, and 3.) Poor Field Conditions. Look, I'm the first to tell people that the Griz are still the class of the conference, and the favorite to win the Big Sky Championship. I always hope my team can be a NC contender, too. But no matter how my team plays, I'll never get caught living in the past or the future. You've got to appreciate what you've got today.

I think you're being a bit sensitive about this, Blazerbird. While you're right that I was wrong about the uniqueness of 5 I-AA title game appearances in 10 games, maybe you missed my post a few posts later in which I admitted that I had fallen victim to hyperbole on that statement.

As to "rarely hearing a Griz fan admit their team got outplayed", you're conflating me with someone else. When the Griz get outplayed, I admit it. They were outplayed in Portland, Huntsville, and Chattanooga last year, and, if this makes you feel any better, in Spokane in 2002.

Both here and elsewhere I've given EWU props for its returning squad, and noted that they are the favorite this year in the BSC.

If you don't like my conclusions about the quality of Montana's last five QBs, I can live with that. I was just pointing out that the team's accomplishments during their tenures were very high, and that all five of them had been legitimate Payton contenders. I'm proud of them. If that makes you uneasy, I'm sorry. And I still believe that they gave "an unbelievable level of consistent top-notch performance, probably unmatched in I-AA history". No one has named a stretch of five straight I-AA QBs from the same school who did as well in the Payton voting, for instance. If someone does, I'll admit that I might have been wrong.

That does not mean that I don't admire the talent of other teams' QBs. Russ Michna tore the Griz apart in 2003, Josh Blankenship took them down easily in 2002, and Dustin Long made them look silly in the regular season in 2004, just to name a few.

And I do appreciate what the Griz have today--a great running back, on offense. I have a great deal of trepidation about the Griz passing game this year, with no proven QB and a lot of youth in the WR corps.

Also, it's pretty easy for you to appreciate what EWU has today. ;) Believe me, though, if you have a Payton winner or national title, you'll revel in it long after it's gone. Maybe this year?

[kats89]

A QB will win the Payton this year again. Too many good ones out there. If Hilliard was to win the Payton, he better be close to 2000 yds for the season with 15 or so TDS and Montana in the championship game. Personally, I think the preseason front runners are Lulay and Meyer.

[CrunchGriz]

A QB will win the Payton this year again. Too many good ones out there. If Hilliard was to win the Payton, he better be close to 2000 yds for the season with 15 or so TDS and Montana in the championship game. Personally, I think the preseason front runners are Lulay and Meyer.

I think those two are early favorites, as well, with an edge to Meyer because of better personal stats and a better projected team this coming year--close on both counts.

I think Lex will be on the Payton Watch, though.

[Grizo406]

I think those two are early favorites, as well, with an edge to Meyer because of better personal stats and a better projected team this coming year--close on both counts.

I think Lex will be on the Payton Watch, though.

Meyer is going to be hard to beat in the upcoming season, and with the support group he has, it's awful hard not to pick EWU as a strong contender to win the Big Sky and go very deep in the playoffs.

As a Griz fan, EWU is the only team I'm worried about, but if Lex gets the ball, we still have a very good chance to challenge EWU for the BSC title.

[UMgrizzlies]

Next year's Payton? Don Santos.