2012 Patriot League Pre-Season Discussion

[DFW HOYA]

Over there, in that distant corner of the AGS room where no one is angling for a invite to the Sun Belt, WAC, or Conference USA, sits the Patriot League. OK, so there aren't a lot of empty chairs around its conference table (and "don't call us, we'll call you"), but there are always a variety of pre-season discussion. A few for some thought below:

LEHIGH--21 wins in the last two years. Is this start of a long run at the top, or do league-wide* scholarships keep the Engineers from pulling away?

LAFAYETTE--Is LC starting to play Yale to Lehigh's Harvard in the annual game? Does a new president change the dynamics of the program going forward?

COLGATE--The last time Biddle had a losing record. he followed it up with back to back nine win seasons. Without Eachus, what drives the Red Raiders back to the top?

HOLY CROSS--With this season, Tom Gilmore will have coached more seasons at Fitton (nine) than anyone since Eddie Anderson. Will this be a third consecuuive 6-5 season, or are the Crusaders primed for a playoff run?

BUCKNELL--There were some good signs for the Bison after last season. How close is Bucknell from a sustained run?

FORDHAM--The Rams won just one game as a 30-scholarship team in a non-scholarship conference. How many wins are reasonable as a 45-scholarship team in 2012, or is this the year the Rams roll over the PL and use its budget to establish a "head start" in talent going forward?

GEORGETOWN*--How do the Hoyas recruit (and compete) as a zero-scholarship program in the PL? Does the rest of the league even care, or is Georgetown merely seen as a schedule filler going forward? Conversely, if Georgetown starts beating up PL schools w/o any scholarships, what does that do to the discussion?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh isn't going anywhere imo. Scholarships will only help them build upon their success of the last 30+ years in 1-AA/FCS.

[Bogus Megapardus]

With the exception of Fordham, everyone remains non-scholarship for 2012.

[Sader87]

We should join the Sun-Belt....we coulda been in the Big East in 1979 ya'know.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I had been reasonably optimistic after last season's 6-5 for Bucknell, but talked myself out of it when I confronted the schedule. After opening at Marist, the Bison's remaining five away games are a juggernaut-- Delaware, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Harvard and Gtown. With the losses on both the OL and DB, Coach Susan will be stroking to break .500 again. There is competition at QB this season, with the challenger having the better of the Orange-Blue Game this spring, and who knows what the final recruiting class will look like? There were so many names (>40) around Natl Signing Day.

I think Lehigh will be vulnerable, replacing Lum, but someone has to present the case for the true challenger. I think it could go down to some unpredictable losses by favorites, like BU over Holy Cross a few years ago, that will change things up in the final week. Bucknell draws the non-L school short straw, playing OOC, hosting Bryant, on the final date in the league calendar.

[LUHawker]

I had been reasonably optimistic after last season's 6-5 for Bucknell, but talked myself out of it when I confronted the schedule. After opening at Marist, the Bison's remaining five away games are a juggernaut-- Delaware, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Harvard and Gtown. With the losses on both the OL and DB, Coach Susan will be stroking to break .500 again. There is competition at QB this season, with the challenger having the better of the Orange-Blue Game this spring, and who knows what the final recruiting class will look like? There were so many names (>40) around Natl Signing Day.

I think Lehigh will be vulnerable, replacing Lum, but someone has to present the case for the true challenger. I think it could go down to some unpredictable losses by favorites, like BU over Holy Cross a few years ago, that will change things up in the final week. Bucknell draws the non-L school short straw, playing OOC, hosting Bryant, on the final date in the league calendar.

We should all note this day in history that someone used "juggernaut" and Georgetown football together.

[MplsBison]

Over there, in that distant corner of the AGS room where no one is angling for a invite to the Sun Belt, WAC, or Conference USA, sits the Patriot League. OK, so there aren't a lot of empty chairs around its conference table (and "don't call us, we'll call you"), but there are always a variety of pre-season discussion. A few for some thought below:

LEHIGH--21 wins in the last two years. Is this start of a long run at the top, or do league-wide* scholarships keep the Engineers from pulling away?

LAFAYETTE--Is LC starting to play Yale to Lehigh's Harvard in the annual game? Does a new president change the dynamics of the program going forward?

COLGATE--The last time Biddle had a losing record. he followed it up with back to back nine win seasons. Without Eachus, what drives the Red Raiders back to the top?

HOLY CROSS--With this season, Tom Gilmore will have coached more seasons at Fitton (nine) than anyone since Eddie Anderson. Will this be a third consecuuive 6-5 season, or are the Crusaders primed for a playoff run?

BUCKNELL--There were some good signs for the Bison after last season. How close is Bucknell from a sustained run?

FORDHAM--The Rams won just one game as a 30-scholarship team in a non-scholarship conference. How many wins are reasonable as a 45-scholarship team in 2012, or is this the year the Rams roll over the PL and use its budget to establish a "head start" in talent going forward?

GEORGETOWN*--How do the Hoyas recruit (and compete) as a zero-scholarship program in the PL? Does the rest of the league even care, or is Georgetown merely seen as a schedule filler going forward? Conversely, if Georgetown starts beating up PL schools w/o any scholarships, what does that do to the discussion?

A scholarship doesn't cost any more than a scholarship equivalency, of which G-town is above zero.

So why not just give the coach the full authority to give out the aid as he determines appropriate, given that every player meets the AI?

[Libertine]

if Georgetown starts beating up PL schools w/o any scholarships, what does that do to the discussion?

Is there still a discussion? I don't know how you put the scholarship genie back in the bottle.

[DFW HOYA]

So why not just give the coach the full authority to give out the aid as he determines appropriate, given that every player meets the AI?

Easy. Each of these decisions (admissions and financial aid) are made by the admissions office, not by the coaches. Admissions determines the need per the FAFSA form, not the coaches.

[MplsBison]

Easy. Each of these decisions (admissions and financial aid) are made by the admissions office, not by the coaches. Admissions determines the need per the FAFSA form, not the coaches.

Every NDSU player can file a FAFSA form too. If they want to accept grants or take out subsidized loans, they can do so on top of their scholarships. But Coach Bohl has the final sign off on how many scholarship dollars they get, regardless of their need.

Should be the same at every PL school - and it will be as I understand now.

[DFW HOYA]

Should be the same at every PL school - and it will be as I understand now.

Every PL school? LFN may have to explain this one to you again...

[Model Citizen]

Georgetown could change, but probably won't. It seems that their method of distributing limited resources is working reasonably well.

[MplsBison]

Every PL school? LFN may have to explain this one to you again...

Should be. In my mind...no PL school should be allowed to do it the way it used to be. Switch over to scholarships or get out. No cost difference, superior method (ethically and practically) and it's what the players, coaches and alumni want. The only people against it are ideologist.

[DFW HOYA]

Should be. In my mind...no PL school should be allowed to do it the way it used to be. Switch over to scholarships or get out. No cost difference, superior method (ethically and practically) and it's what the players, coaches and alumni want. The only people against it are ideologist.

Talking about trading over the same ground....again...

There is a material cost difference at some schools than others because of the sources and uses of funds. Financial need as determined by an admissions office (i.e., aid available to any students by need) is a different source than aid from the athletic department budget which has a Title IX component. Good people can agree to disagree, but this is the issue faced by schools that do not offer athletic scholarships.

In your opinion, it's all or nothing--"full commitment" or "hit the road". Schools like Lafayette made the determination that the opportunity cost of relocating all sports to a new conference and severing long held ties with other Pennsylvania schools was too great to go to the mat (to mix sports metaphors) on leaving the PL and they would reluctantly eat the cost of football scholarships as a result. By contrast, Georgetown has indicated that the cost of budgeting 60 scholarships (and 60 more on the women's side, for a total annual expense of $6.6 million) is not justified, versus the intangible impact should the PL show them the door, of which it has shown no indication of doing so.

The PL has six schools following course and one that is not. From what we can tell, the presidents seem to be satisfied with this.

[Bill]

Every NDSU player can file a FAFSA form too. If they want to accept grants or take out subsidized loans, they can do so on top of their scholarships.

Mpls - are you certain of this? Perhaps you mean something else, but no student - athlete or other - can have a subsidized loan in excess of the cost of education (I'm assuming a NDSU scholarship is for the full cost of attendance here). The Federal government does not allow it.

As for accepting additional grants (other than some parts of the Pell grant), the same is true. You can't, for example, have a full athletic ride (meeting the total cost of attendance) at any NCAA school AND get additional grants...

[MplsBison]

Talking about trading over the same ground....again...

There is a material cost difference at some schools than others because of the sources and uses of funds. Financial need as determined by an admissions office (i.e., aid available to any students by need) is a different source than aid from the athletic department budget which has a Title IX component. Good people can agree to disagree, but this is the issue faced by schools that do not offer athletic scholarships.

In your opinion, it's all or nothing--"full commitment" or "hit the road". Schools like Lafayette made the determination that the opportunity cost of relocating all sports to a new conference and severing long held ties with other Pennsylvania schools was too great to go to the mat (to mix sports metaphors) on leaving the PL and they would reluctantly eat the cost of football scholarships as a result. By contrast, Georgetown has indicated that the cost of budgeting 60 scholarships (and 60 more on the women's side, for a total annual expense of $6.6 million) is not justified, versus the intangible impact should the PL show them the door, of which it has shown no indication of doing so.

The PL has six schools following course and one that is not. From what we can tell, the presidents seem to be satisfied with this.

No, no, no. I'm not saying G-town has to get to 60 scholarships or get out.

I'm saying that G-town gives some positive number of scholarship equivalencies of aid to G-town football players now and that they should be forced to convert every one of those equivalencies of aid into a hard athletic scholarship.

For example, if 30 players are get 20 scholarship equivalencies worth of grants from G-town (not talking about federal aid here, but specialized institutional aid for football players) then just convert that to 20 athletic scholarships and let the head coach decide if that goes to the same 30 players or not. It should be his decision alone and have nothing to do with the federal governments estimation of "need".

No cost difference to the school overall and better ethically.

[MplsBison]

Mpls - are you certain of this? Perhaps you mean something else, but no student - athlete or other - can have a subsidized loan in excess of the cost of education (I'm assuming a NDSU scholarship is for the full cost of attendance here). The Federal government does not allow it.

As for accepting additional grants (other than some parts of the Pell grant), the same is true. You can't, for example, have a full athletic ride (meeting the total cost of attendance) at any NCAA school AND get additional grants...

What you're saying makes sense for loans, but not grants.

If your parents make less than X and the cost of the school is Y, then there's some algorithm you can plug that in and say "yep, he qualifies for a Pell grant". End.


Loans on the other hand, the school's financial department could simply say "no, you already paid you bill in full, so we are going to cancel your subsidized loan". Whereas a Federal Grant, they just send the money to the school and any surplus the school cuts the student a check.


Pretty sure that's right, but I've been wrong lots of times before.

[carney2]

Back to the point of this thread:

1. LEHIGH - The reigning and presumed champion. It will be more of a struggle this time around - even against this weak competition.

2. HOLY CROSS - 6-5 last year and not a Dominic Randolph in sight. Probably the best chance to unseat the Squawks, but not a juggernaut.

3. GEORGETOWN - Lots of returning starters, but not a convincing lineup. The Hoyas are running out of time to perform their miracle.

4. LAFAYETTE - The bubble team. If most of their overwhelming questions get answered in the affirmative, they're contenders. The more that go negative, the more they drop like a rock.

5. BUCKNELL - The football program is hanging in limbo. Their unlikely successes of 2011 are headed for the dumpster if the still unannounced 2012 recruiting class is as bad as last year's.

6. COLGATE - No Eachus and the usual no defense. Tell me how this morphs into a contender.

7. FORDHAM - I'll believe they know what to do with scholarships only when they prove it. Have they added to the program by subtracting Tom Massella?

There is no one on this list who will make any noise in the playoffs.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm certainly not convinced that Lehigh or another team in the league can't make noise in the playoffs this year. Some folks questioned Lehigh, including Lum, heading into last year. IF Colvin can avoid mistakes and just manage the offense the Hawks will be very good. I think Lehigh has the potential to be an outstanding rushing team with big play potential in the passing game. The amount of weapons on offense is flat out scary, Spadola, Barket, Sherman, Haggins and Arruda are all big time playmakers at their position. I'm confident Cecchini will figure it out.

Lehigh on paper is a legit Top 15/20 team imo. Georgetown and HC are Top 40 right now.

[RichH2]

Back to the point of this thread:

1. LEHIGH - The reigning and presumed champion. It will be more of a struggle this time around - even against this weak competition.

2. HOLY CROSS - 6-5 last year and not a Dominic Randolph in sight. Probably the best chance to unseat the Squawks, but not a juggernaut.

3. GEORGETOWN - Lots of returning starters, but not a convincing lineup. The Hoyas are running out of time to perform their miracle.

4. LAFAYETTE - The bubble team. If most of their overwhelming questions get answered in the affirmative, they're contenders. The more that go negative, the more they drop like a rock.

5. BUCKNELL - The football program is hanging in limbo. Their unlikely successes of 2011 are headed for the dumpster if the still unannounced 2012 recruiting class is as bad as last year's.

6. COLGATE - No Eachus and the usual no defense. Tell me how this morphs into a contender.

7. FORDHAM - I'll believe they know what to do with scholarships only when they prove it. Have they added to the program by subtracting Tom Massella?

There is no one on this list who will make any noise in the playoffs.




Will be a much tighter season. Agree with Carney's breakdown overall. I would expect Rams to be better up in the middle of the pack IMO, they now have a real coaching staff. Cant disagree about Gate but I find it hard to think Biddle will not make tjis team better. Dont think there will be much spread from top to bottom next season

[ngineer]

I think our defense can be better than last year's. A more 'balanced' offense with Sherman/Barket etal. I see at least "9-2" (;-)

[van]

With the favorable schedule Lehigh could get to 9-2, but facing some critical retooling 8-3 more likely.
Cross must survive a rough non-conference start and could get to 8-3 if they do
Bison, Rams, G-town, Gate and Pards all have a chance to get a winning season at 6-5, however, not all of them will.

[Go...gate]

Colgate is hard to predict right now, but the defense and special teams must improve for a creditable season. I think 6-5 may be about right.

[heath]

Might have a chance to see Lafayette on Sept. 8 in Williamsburg and then Lehigh at Liberty on the 22nd. Seeing to PL teams in the state is unheard of.Great games for both, but think the Tribe are just a better team, and Coach Gill will have his team ready for payback. Long bus rides home for both Patriot teams.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Might have a chance to see Lafayette on Sept. 8 in Williamsburg and then Lehigh at Liberty on the 22nd. Seeing to PL teams in the state is unheard of.Great games for both, but think the Tribe are just a better team, and Coach Gill will have his team ready for payback. Long bus rides home for both Patriot teams.

I'm not sure Turner Gill can coach his team out of a paper bag let alone rally his squad for some payback. He had one "magical" year at Buffalo when the stars aligned but has done nothing else. The Flames lost a ton of talented players from last year and I don't believe much is expected of them this season. They do have a good homefield advantage though, especially at night.

[heath]

Gill as a religious man will pull the team together. Rocco had no control or respect from his players,just ask Asa Chapman and others. Sometimes a new direction is all that is needed. Liberty has always had one of the most talented teams in the FCS but never played as one.Talent is still there,thugs will not be allowed,so watch out.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lafayette @ W&M is a very nice game for the Pards, provided Coach Tavani cleans up the difficulties from last year. There were some personnel "issues" on College Hill last season that affected the team. At least two potentially top contributors suddenly are off the roster, according to the Lafayette Board and confirmed on the official roster page. This comes after some team rule violation suspensions last season that affected everyone.

That said, Lafayette's performance vs. Virginia teams has been pretty good of late. We went 2-0 vs Richmond in 2004-05 and split with Liberty in 2008-09. Lafayette, Lehigh and the rest of the PL remain non-scholarship, however. That combined, with the AI, means that PL teams still won't have the size and raw talent enjoyed by W&M and Liberty. But the PL has excellent coaching and the players and coaches alike - at all of the schools - really do spend a lot of time in film study.

Patriot teams are notorious for running some really complicated schemes. According to statements by Coach Tavani, Lafayette has simplified the playbook this year. I don't take that to mean that it has been "dumbed down," but the players seem to think that it is giving them the opportunity to react more quickly rather than over-thinking things out on the field. The trick, of course, it to avoid becoming predictable.

Lafayette returns a strong and improving defensive secondary as well as an experienced, rifle-armed QB in Andrew Shoop. I imagine that teams will try to run early and often against a DL that was suspect (at best) last season and a LB corps that will be all new. I think that both will be better this season. As for the OL, which has suffered a spate of injuries and has been inconsistent at best, the proof will come at game time. I think they'll protect Shoop well enough, but run blocking could be mediocre.

In general, Lafayette fans remain focused on beating our league mates and and our traditional Ivy foes, the latter of whom we tend to view as individual, long-standing rivalries than collectively as "Ivy teams." More casual fans might see the W&M game as an Ivy-type contest without necessarily realizing that the Tribe is a solid CAA powerhouse. A sound drubbing in Williamsburg could help ratify February's scholarship decision amongst lingering nay-sayers.

[Pard4Life]

The Pards can win seven games this year... more than capable given last year's improvement.

[Libertine]

Rocco had no control or respect from his players,just ask Asa Chapman and others. Sometimes a new direction is all that is needed. Liberty has always had one of the most talented teams in the FCS but never played as one.Talent is still there,thugs will not be allowed,so watch out.

You, sir, are freakin' clueless and an embarassment to your institution. Please take your rectal headgear back to Flamefans where such attire is encouraged.

[Franks Tanks]

I think our defense can be better than last year's. A more 'balanced' offense with Sherman/Barket etal. I see at least "9-2" (;-)

Do you think Barket will be anywhere near 100%?

He suffered a severe injury late in the season and has just 9 months or so to rehab for the start of the season. He is a good kid and I hate to see anyone get injured, but I suspect he will not be a dominant back this season.

[carney2]

The Pards can win seven games this year... more than capable given last year's improvement.

IF QB Andrew Shoop loses that deer in the headlights look he gave us in the 2011 Lehigh game.

IF OL coach Stan Clayton can piece together a line. (They showed no - as in zero - progress in the spring, injuries notwithstanding.)

IF the defensive front 7 can show incredible improvement. (They looked good in the spring, but were going against the OL mentioned above, so I'm not betting the ranch on it just yet.)

IF RB Ross Scheuerman can stay in one piece. (Behind him is absolutely nothing.)

IF the coaches can find some WRs to supplement Mark Ross. (Some hope shown in the spring - but that's the spring.)

IF the incoming freshman kicker is the real deal. If no, extra points will be an adventure, let alone field goals.

IF Frank Tavani can motivate the kids to play 11 games instead of last year's 7 1/2.

That's a lot of IFs that have to pretty much all go in one direction.

[Bogus Megapardus]

IF





http://becomingfearless.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b37530970c014e8bb97b28970d-800wi

[carney2]

http://becomingfearless.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b37530970c014e8bb97b28970d-800wi

Not to worry, Bogie. I'm just pot stirring. Like you, I know that all is going incredibly well in the Lafayette Athletic Department. And, after the last two years, we have to all recognize that Tavani's football program is a runaway express train. Keep up the good work, one and all.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not to worry, Bogie. I'm just pot stirring. Like you, I know that all is going incredibly well in the Lafayette Athletic Department. And, after the last two years, we have to all recognize that Tavani's football program is a runaway express train. Keep up the good work, one and all.

Let's just face it - without football scholarships, we have nothing we know how to talk about, so it's like baby steps. carney is used to being a curmudgeon about Lafayette, so it's only logical that he leads us out of the silence.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Not to worry, Bogie. I'm just pot stirring. Like you, I know that all is going incredibly well in the Lafayette Athletic Department. And, after the last two years, we have to all recognize that Tavani's football program is a runaway express train. Keep up the good work, one and all.


Let's just face it - without football scholarships, we have nothing we know how to talk about, so it's like baby steps. carney is used to being a curmudgeon about Lafayette, so it's only logical that he leads us out of the silence.

Such seriousness! I was just trying to add a bit of levity. Carney2 ensures appropriate checks and balances, of course.

[MplsBison]

IF QB Andrew Shoop loses that deer in the headlights look he gave us in the 2011 Lehigh game.

IF OL coach Stan Clayton can piece together a line. (They showed no - as in zero - progress in the spring, injuries notwithstanding.)

IF the defensive front 7 can show incredible improvement. (They looked good in the spring, but were going against the OL mentioned above, so I'm not betting the ranch on it just yet.)

IF RB Ross Scheuerman can stay in one piece. (Behind him is absolutely nothing.)

IF the coaches can find some WRs to supplement Mark Ross. (Some hope shown in the spring - but that's the spring.)

IF the incoming freshman kicker is the real deal. If no, extra points will be an adventure, let alone field goals.

IF Frank Tavani can motivate the kids to play 11 games instead of last year's 7 1/2.

That's a lot of IFs that have to pretty much all go in one direction.

This is why I hate talking about football before the game is played.

No one has any clue of what's going to happen.

[RichH2]

Luv it when Carney is dyspeptic about something or other. Of almost equal interest as next season's race is how schollies are going to impact all of us. Opportunity for sure and pitfalls for the unwary methinks. The recruit race as to each of us and how we do as to IL, NEC and CAA will be very interesting

[carney2]

A serious curmudgeon. Is there any other kind?

[carney2]

This is why I hate talking about football before the game is played.

No one has any clue of what's going to happen.

So, what are you suggesting, that we watch freakin' baseball on TV? No, wait. My grass is growing. I'll grab a lawn chair and go watch it.

We're football nuts. This is what we do.

[MplsBison]

So, what are you suggesting, that we watch freakin' baseball on TV? No, wait. My grass is growing. I'll grab a lawn chair and go watch it.

We're football nuts. This is what we do.

Talking about it before the game played is such a waste of energy. No one can predict what will happen, who will get hurt, what stupid call will be made (refs and coaches), what inexcusable thing a player did, etc. etc. etc.

Pre-game hype. I hate it. Just play the games. THEN talk it to death, after the game ends.

[carney2]

Talking about it before the game played is such a waste of energy. No one can predict what will happen, who will get hurt, what stupid call will be made (refs and coaches), what inexcusable thing a player did, etc. etc. etc.

Pre-game hype. I hate it. Just play the games. THEN talk it to death, after the game ends.

You have just promised to be gone until September. Do it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm sorry, did I see "waste of energy" and an MplsBison post together?

[MplsBison]

You have just promised to be gone until September. Do it.

Yep, no one ever talks about non-pregame football topics on this board.

[van]

Gee, and I opened this thread hoping to see some serious and thoughtful discussion, then saw that MPLBISON had interjected her nonsense.

[The Historian]

A serious curmudgeon. Is there any other kind?

Curmudgeon At Large, which was the title of Cleveland Amory's daily radio commentary. Today it would be a podcast.

[LUHawker]

Talking about it before the game played is such a waste of energy. No one can predict what will happen, who will get hurt, what stupid call will be made (refs and coaches), what inexcusable thing a player did, etc. etc. etc.

Pre-game hype. I hate it. Just play the games. THEN talk it to death, after the game ends.

I guess you don't invest in the stock market either.

[Sader87]

A serious curmudgeon. Is there any other kind?

...ahem!!! xnodx

[MplsBison]

I guess you don't invest in the stock market either.

I don't talk about every little nuance for a week before I pull the trigger.

I hate pre-talk!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't talk about every little nuance for a week before I pull the trigger.

On second thought, I won't type what I'm thinking.

[ngineer]

Do you think Barket will be anywhere near 100%?

He suffered a severe injury late in the season and has just 9 months or so to rehab for the start of the season. He is a good kid and I hate to see anyone get injured, but I suspect he will not be a dominant back this season.

The 'word' as spring game was that he was making very good progress and expectations are he will start in September. Zach is a strong runner and doesn't rely too much on being 'shifty', though being able to make any quick cut is important. If he were more of a 'juke' type of runner I would be more concerned. We still have decent depth behind him, especially with Sherman, who blew a nice off tackle in #147 last year. It's the deepest we've been at RB in a few years with Sodeke and Dormaville backing up.

[ngineer]

Might have a chance to see Lafayette on Sept. 8 in Williamsburg and then Lehigh at Liberty on the 22nd. Seeing to PL teams in the state is unheard of.Great games for both, but think the Tribe are just a better team, and Coach Gill will have his team ready for payback. Long bus rides home for both Patriot teams.

Not for Lehigh. Last I heard, the team would taking a charter flight down Saturday a.m. since the game is at night, and then leaving immediately afterward. Cost of the Charter offsets the cost of two buses and equipment trucks to VA, as well as two nights lodging and more meals. Plus, as with our trip to Drake two years ago, there is usually room for about 25 football alums whose 'fares' also help offset the cost.

[Pard4Life]

Not for Lehigh. Last I heard, the team would taking a charter flight down Saturday a.m. since the game is at night, and then leaving immediately afterward. Cost of the Charter offsets the cost of two buses and equipment trucks to VA, as well as two nights lodging and more meals. Plus, as with our trip to Drake two years ago, there is usually room for about 25 football alums whose 'fares' also help offset the cost.

You better hope that there is no hurricane barreling through that day, or that there is no fog on the morning of September 22.

Tavani learned his lesson during Hurricane Ivan, when the busses couldn't get off the Hill to Princeton due to flooding, and those nancies at Princeton wouldn't delay the game.

[carney2]

Tavani learned his lesson during Hurricane Ivan, when the busses couldn't get off the Hill to Princeton due to flooding, and those nancies at Princeton wouldn't delay the game.

Yet another reason to hate those striped SOBs.

[RichH2]

For what its worth Lindy's has ranked LU at #12 and to win PL Still think as Gate has best returning QB they s/b given some love, if they fnd even a half *** D

[ngineer]

For what its worth Lindy's has ranked LU at #12 and to win PL Still think as Gate has best returning QB they s/b given some love, if they fnd even a half *** D

I would expect LU to be ranked between 10-15 preseason. Only major ? is at QB, and even then, it's not a monster issue as we have three talented players at that position and if Colvin doesn't get it done, Bialkowski and Poutier look quite capable. Defense should be very good. A strong and deep seconday will let the front seven be creative.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One of the very interesting sidebars of Lehigh's upcoming season is their depth at QB should Colvin, who has had a history of injuries, goes down. I got the distinct impression that the Hawks were quite happy with their three QBs (four if you count the emergency guy McHale) and didn't push hard to get another triggerman in recruiting this year.

[DFW HOYA]

Sounds like a few questions for PL Media Day, even if only three outlets show up (Morning Call, Express-Times, and LFN).

[TheValleyRaider]

For what its worth Lindy's has ranked LU at #12 and to win PL Still think as Gate has best returning QB they s/b given some love, if they fnd even a half *** D

I do like McCarney coming back, but on top of the defense, we'll need more from the O-Line this year. If they can stay healthy, give the running game a chance, we'll be a dangerous bunch, as usual

Still some ifs, though...

[DFW HOYA]

Any impact transfers in the PL this fall?

[bison137]

Back to the point of this thread:

5. BUCKNELL - The football program is hanging in limbo. Their unlikely successes of 2011 are headed for the dumpster if the still unannounced 2012 recruiting class is as bad as last year's.




Just curious as to why you think BU's current freshman class is so awful. It produced 11 freshman letter-winners (as many as any class in recent years), including four players who started games. Two of those were regular starters the whole year - one at left offensive tackle - and a third played almost the entire Colgate game at QB and played fairly well. Also they had three different players who got PL ROW awards.

I'm not saying this is a great class (I doubt it is), but I think it's way too early to declare it an awful one. BTW, the biggest failing in BU's recent recruiting is that the rising senior and junior classes have failed to produce even one OL who played at all. There were two who probably could have been good, but both quit early.

[RichH2]

So many frosh lettermen speaks more to the lack of quality in upperclass and not so much to quality of the recruits. Terrible may be overmuch , a more appropriate description is insufficient. However tnat always seems to be the case when a coach is rebuilding a progarm. You cant fill all the holes in 1 or 2 classes.. So each class is going to be missing key positions. Last yr's class has some very good players but not enough of them same holds true for this class. Absent a lot of luck, it takes 4-6 years to fill out a program. Susan will get it done. The 2 RBs in this class are excellent. OL should get some depth and be better in the next couple of years

[RichH2]

Any impact transfers in the PL this fall?


Not that I'm aware of, which ,of course, does nothing to negate the existence of some. Does raise an interesting question about future years tho. Will sholarships make PL more attractive to for FBS kids looking to transfer?

[carney2]

Just curious as to why you think BU's current freshman class is so awful. It produced 11 freshman letter-winners (as many as any class in recent years), including four players who started games. Two of those were regular starters the whole year - one at left offensive tackle - and a third played almost the entire Colgate game at QB and played fairly well. Also they had three different players who got PL ROW awards.

I'm not saying this is a great class (I doubt it is), but I think it's way too early to declare it an awful one. BTW, the biggest failing in BU's recent recruiting is that the rising senior and junior classes have failed to produce even one OL who played at all. There were two who probably could have been good, but both quit early.

Your position is that all of these freshmen getting significant playing time must be a good sign. I'm with RichH - it may be, and probably is, more of a signal as to just how threadbare this program really is. When the 2011 recruiting class was announced I ventured the opinion that they looked like what was left on the shelves at WalMart in the final minutes of a giant two day sale. Who knows, there may be a Will Rackley or a Nate Eachus buried in there somewhere. Recruiting at the Patriot League level is always a crap shoot. To me however, this still looks like a group that is destined for second division finishes without some really serious help from the 2012 class and beyond.

Is it, as you hint, way too early to make these assessments? Yes, but in 3 years we are not going to want to talk about it. All of us prefer the here and now.

[Tribal]

Firstly, I'm excited about Lafayette coming to Williamsburg. W'burg is a family-friendly town with a lot of activities...fun gameday experience, too. I recommend Hospitality House (hotel directly across the street from Zable Stadium). Grab lunch at The Cheese Shop in Colonial W'burg. If you drive down and hit a lot of traffic on I-95 near Fredericksburg or Kings Dominion amusement park exit, take that exit and set your GPS for "West Point, VA." That will take you down some country roads (no traffic) until you meet I-64 east. At that point, you're about 30 minutes from W'burg.

Secondly, I find it nearly impossible that Lehigh will not be a top 10 team (in the polls) by the end of the season; no FBS opponent and a manageable FCS schedule. Frankly, I'll be surprised if they lose 2 games.

My mother has incurable cancer and has "enjoyed" phenomenal treatment at G'town University Hospital. For that, I hope the Hoyas run the table in the PL.

[RichH2]

Tribal,

Well I cant say I'm ready for Hoyas to run the table but I hope yur Mom does. Best of luck and a prayer.

[carney2]

Firstly, I'm excited about Lafayette coming to Williamsburg. W'burg is a family-friendly town with a lot of activities...fun gameday experience, too. I recommend Hospitality House (hotel directly across the street from Zable Stadium). Grab lunch at The Cheese Shop in Colonial W'burg. If you drive down and hit a lot of traffic on I-95 near Fredericksburg or Kings Dominion amusement park exit, take that exit and set your GPS for "West Point, VA." That will take you down some country roads (no traffic) until you meet I-64 east. At that point, you're about 30 minutes from W'burg.

Secondly, I find it nearly impossible that Lehigh will not be a top 10 team (in the polls) by the end of the season; no FBS opponent and a manageable FCS schedule. Frankly, I'll be surprised if they lose 2 games.

My mother has incurable cancer and has "enjoyed" phenomenal treatment at G'town University Hospital. For that, I hope the Hoyas run the table in the PL.

Best of luck to Mom. She's in good hands.

Georgetown should have another good year. Their OOC schedule is not daunting and they return a bunch of starters. I figure them at 8-3 or maybe 7-4, and in the hunt for the Patriot League title for most of the year.

Speaking of non-daunting OOC schedules, you are absolutely correct about Lehigh's parade of the cupcakes. Monmouth and Central Connecticut plus the Ivy League's two doormats (Princeton and Columbia) from 2011 does not make for must see football.

I was really looking forward to a long weekend in Williamsburg for the Lafayette @ W&M game, but things seem to have spun beyond my control and are unraveling. Looks like I'll be watching it on TV and looking for another game for our annual road trip.

[RichH2]

Cant deny our soft OOC schedule. IMO very smart scheduling given Lum's graduation ,not to mention most of front 7 1st and 2nd string graduauted.Expect them to be more competitive than they s/b as Dave gets Mike up to game speed. Colvin has all the tools plus an excellent runner, so far he has lacked confidence in his reads. Hesitates and either throws incomplete or an int. Dave will fix it but if Mike cant overcome his Chad itis BB will take job. He will be a roller coaster ride but O will score.

[Southsider]

Best of luck to Mom. She's in good hands.

Georgetown should have another good year. Their OOC schedule is not daunting and they return a bunch of starters. I figure them at 8-3 or maybe 7-4, and in the hunt for the Patriot League title for most of the year.

Speaking of non-daunting OOC schedules, you are absolutely correct about Lehigh's parade of the cupcakes. Monmouth and Central Connecticut plus the Ivy League's two doormats (Princeton and Columbia) from 2011 does not make for must see football.I was really looking forward to a long weekend in Williamsburg for the Lafayette @ W&M game, but things seem to have spun beyond my control and are unraveling. Looks like I'll be watching it on TV and looking for another game for our annual road trip.

Boy, this will really set P4L off if LU runs the table..........

[crusader11]

Good to see Holy Cross challenging themselves playing two of the Ivy League's best (Harvard and Brown), along with New Hampshire. The game in November against Wagner is a game I'd rather not see on the slate, but going forward maybe this will become an FBS game with scholarships now in play...

[carney2]

Cant deny our soft OOC schedule. IMO very smart scheduling given Lum's graduation ,not to mention most of front 7 1st and 2nd string graduauted.

I'm sure it was all crafty planning with all of the graduations and other moving pieces in mind. C'mon, Rich, it's all luck of the draw - and dumb luck in this case. Tell me you're excited about watching the Squawks against the halt and the lame.

[RichH2]

I'm sure it was all crafty planning with all of the graduations and other moving pieces in mind. C'mon, Rich, it's all luck of the draw - and dumb luck in this case. Tell me you're excited about watching the Squawks against the halt and the lame.

:D Yup that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh has had excellent schedules the last 2 years so it's definitely a case of the luck of the draw this season. I still believe the road games at CCSU and Liberty will provide solid tests for the Hawks before they get into conference play.

[carney2]

Lehigh has had excellent schedules the last 2 years so it's definitely a case of the luck of the draw this season. I still believe the road games at CCSU and Liberty will provide solid tests for the Hawks before they get into conference play.

Let's see:

Central Connecticut went 4-7 last year with their biggest wins being (toss up) Robert Morris and Bryant.

Liberty, on the other hand, I'll give you. They play at a higher level and went 7-4.

That's one.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Let's see:

Central Connecticut went 4-7 last year with their biggest wins being (toss up) Robert Morris and Bryant.

Liberty, on the other hand, I'll give you. They play at a higher level and went 7-4.

That's one.

It's the first game at CCSU's expanded stadium against what will be a pretty highly ranked team. For that reason, I have a feeling the Devils will bring their A game against the Hawks.

CCSU went down to JMU last year and only lost by 5. I think they'll put forth a similar type performance against Lehigh.

[carney2]

It's the first game at CCSU's expanded stadium against what will be a pretty highly ranked team. For that reason, I have a feeling the Devils will bring their A game against the Hawks.

CCSU went down to JMU last year and only lost by 5. I think they'll put forth a similar type performance against Lehigh.

And I think they'll get steamrolled in a "What drunk scheduled this thing?!" game. But, as many on this board have said in the past when referring to me, what do I know?

[ngineer]

CCSU should be a win, but it won't be a 'gimme'. They came to our place a few years back and spoiled our home opener. Scheduling for PL schools for OOC games is a challenge, and some years you just get stuck with a mediocre line up. But we've had some fairly good schedules the past couple years, so with the transition at QB we may have caught a break so that Colvin gets his 'sea legs' by the time league play rolls around.

[RichH2]

Last year is sadly over. A new team this year. Very talented and athletic but very inexperienced on front 7 and a new qb who has shown been very inconsistent. It will at least take 2-3 games before the squad gels IMO, even then we will not be as dominant as last year.

[aceinthehole]

And I think they'll get steamrolled in a "What drunk scheduled this thing?!" game. But, as many on this board have said in the past when referring to me, what do I know?

I'm not ready to predict a CCSU win yet, but I am fairly certain that this will be a close game. It is true that Central is coming off a very disappointing season. Also, they too will be playing a new starting QB, so I will remain cautiously optimistic until I see them play at Stony Brook.

But let's not forget that CCSU is 2-0 vs. its last 2 Patriot League opponents:
(2009) Win at Lehigh
(2005) Win at Colgate

Also, Central has only lost 2 non-conference regular season games to opponents from outside the CAA during the past 4 seasons:
(2010) Loss at Youngstown State
(2008) Loss at North Dakota State

[crusader11]

Also, Central has only lost 2 non-conference regular season games to opponents from outside the CAA during the past 4 seasons:
(2010) Loss at Youngstown State
(2008) Loss at North Dakota State

Wins over: North Carolina Central, Delaware State, Lehigh (a 4-7 Lehigh team), Columbia, Bentley, and Southern Connecticut State are hardly anything to write home about.

Although, I do think that CCSU will be a decent test for Lehigh.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I haven't done my analysis of Monmouth or CCSU yet (coming soon!), but holy cow does CCSU have a brutal schedule to open the season. Try three playoff teams in a row (Stony Brook, Lehigh, UNH), with only Lehigh coming at home. I think it will be a challenge to prepare for Lehigh after Stony Brook's offense at the very least.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Last year is sadly over. A new team this year. Very talented and athletic but very inexperienced on front 7 and a new qb who has shown been very inconsistent. It will at least take 2-3 games before the squad gels IMO, even then we will not be as dominant as last year.

I'm interested to see what type of offense Lehigh uses this year. If I were to guess I bet Cecchini uses some variation of the spread offense that Florida ran during the Tebow days. Colvin, imo, is very Tebow-esque, right down to the #15. I think a balanced, to slightly run first offense would be highly effective given the depth at RB and a fairly experienced o-line. Spadola might not have as many receptions this year compared to the previous two seasons but he'll have some monster games assuming the running game lives up to expectations. There's simply too much talent on offense for a significant drop off. Heck, put me behind center with this group of skill guys and i'll scratch out 24 ppg.

[aceinthehole]

I haven't done my analysis of Monmouth or CCSU yet (coming soon!), but holy cow does CCSU have a brutal schedule to open the season. Try three playoff teams in a row (Stony Brook, Lehigh, UNH), with only Lehigh coming at home. I think it will be a challenge to prepare for Lehigh after Stony Brook's offense at the very least.

I fully agree. Right now I wouldn't be surprised if CCSU goes 0-3, but at least 1 win in those 3 games should indicate that Central is potentially a top-25 team itself and a real threat to win the NEC.

[RichH2]

Of course the advantage of playing up in OOC is puts you in better shape going into conference play. Game speed perhps not enough for OOC games but it will be higher than it was at the start of the season. Would be great for CCSU to win 1 , just not against Lehigh

[carney2]

So this thread has degenerated into

"Which cupcake might spill a few crumbs on the Brown floor."

Just shoot me.

[LBPop]

Georgetown should have another good year. Their OOC schedule is not daunting and they return a bunch of starters. I figure them at 8-3 or maybe 7-4, and in the hunt for the Patriot League title for most of the year.

The real issue at Georgetown is not the returning starters...it's the returning coaches. Last year's success led to some opportunities for some assistants. They lost an excellent LB/Specials coach, but most importantly they lost their OC who was generally credited with a lot of their 2011 success. The good news is that sometime in the past three years they got the memo: Good big linemen generally perform better than good small lineman.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So this thread has degenerated into

"Which cupcake might spill a few crumbs on the Brown floor."

Just shoot me.

My work is done here. :P

[ngineer]

So this thread has degenerated into

"Which cupcake might spill a few crumbs on the Brown floor."

Just shoot me.

Don't forget the sprinkles!!!!!!