Official Preseason AGS Poll Announced

[*****]

Preseason Any Given Saturday Poll 5/23/2005

(First place votes in parenthesis)
1. James Madison (45)
2. Furman (12)
3. Eastern Washington (10)
4. Montana (2)
5. Georgia Southern (2)
6. Western Kentucky (1)
7. Delaware
8. Northwestern State (1)
9. New Hampshire (1)
10. Northern Iowa
11. Southern Illinois (1)
12. William & Mary
13. Lehigh
14. Sam Houston State
15. Harvard (1)
16. Massachusetts
17. Cal Poly
18. North Dakota State
19. Jacksonville State
20. Lafayette
21. Montana State
22. Hampton
23. Appalachian State
24. Maine
25. Hofstra

Others receiving votes (minimum of 5 votes): Villanova (35), South Carolina State (33), Wofford (31), Portland State (30), Alabama State (16), Eastern Kentucky (16), McNeese State (15), Coastal Carolina (14), Pennsylvania (14), Southern University (11), Grambling (10), Colgate (9), Northern Arizona (9), Texas State (8), UC Davis (7), South Dakota State (6), Western Carolina (6), Brown (5), Stephen F. Austin (5).

[Hansel]

Nice turnout

[89Hen]

Let's see who the first school is to pick it up and put it in a story.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ain't it amazing how it ends up with a nice, reasonable poll after all these disparate polls, including "crazy" ones with EKU at #3 and Bucknell at #25? :cool:

Looks way reasonable to me, except for the fact that there are 7 A-10 teams.

That's why I said "OK".

[Hansel]

Ain't it amazing how it ends up with a nice, reasonable poll after all these disparate polls, including "crazy" ones with EKU at #3 and Bucknell at #25? :cool:

Looks way reasonable to me, except for the fact that there are 7 A-10 teams.

That's why I said "OK".
and 8-A-10 schools in the top 26

[Rob]

I think it's ok. The traditional powers are a little too high (Montana, GSU, Delaware), but other than that I don't know what could really be argued.

[WMTribe90]

I think it looks pretty darn good. I think UD might be slightly over-valued at No 7. Eight A-10 teams in the top 26 seems about right though. All four playoff teams return enough for legit title hopes hopes and Villanova, Umass and Hofstra should all be improved. I think Maine may be the biggest wildcard.

[Eagle_77]

I agree that the traditional powers are a little to high and some other teams are a little to low but overall I think all the teams that deserve to be in it are in it. Its really hard for people not to be homers especially when its a preseason poll and there are no games to base your votes on. I think this is shown with some of the bigger fan bases at the traditional powers boosting their teams up a little higher. No harm though the placing will work itself out when the season starts.

[WCU LawCat]

76 voters is pretty good.

[Hansel]

Ralph- can we get the vote totals for all teams?

[saint0917]

I voted O.K. I don't like seeing Harvard, Southern Illinios, New Hampshire, and Northwestern St. with No.1 votes, it makes the AGS poll silly.

[ngineer]

I think it most reasonable for a preseason poll. Those that have 'done' are supposed to get some 'props', especially if they have a good core coming back. I'm glad we're starting to talk some football, now. :)

[89Hen]

I don't like seeing Harvard, Southern Illinios, New Hampshire, and Northwestern St. with No.1 votes, it makes the AGS poll silly.
Like the coaches giving Wofford, UNI and McNeese a #1 pre-season last year? :p None of them made the playoffs after receiving #1 votes.

The SN poll last year had six different teams with first place votes.

[dbackjon]

I voted O.K. I don't like seeing Harvard, Southern Illinios, New Hampshire, and Northwestern St. with No.1 votes, it makes the AGS poll silly.

Why? It is pre-season. Harvard is on a 11 game win streak, SIU ended the regular season #1, New Hampshire had a great year last year, and Northwestern St. is top - 10 easily, so voting them number one is not THAT much of a stretch.

[colgate13]

:hurray:

AGS Top 25 Poll
http://www.pettipond.com/v_slims.jpg
You've come a long way, baby.

[Down with the Foe!]

Looks way reasonable to me, except for the fact that there are 7 A-10 teams.


they'll try harder by opening day to get 8 or 9 of them in there..... don't worry!



:cool:


Go Griz!

[ngineer]

Whoa, 13!! What are you into these days?? :eek: :eek:

[saint0917]

Like the coaches giving Wofford, UNI and McNeese a #1 pre-season last year? :p

Yes silly like that :D

[blukeys]

I agree that the traditional powers are a little to high and some other teams are a little to low but overall I think all the teams that deserve to be in it are in it.

Traditional powers are usually a little too high in preseason polls. It's safe to vote for them in preseason as there is little else to go on. Typically, the other teams have to prove they belong during the season by winning. Traditional powers have to prove they don't belong by losing.

[colgate13]

I voted O.K. I don't like seeing Harvard, Southern Illinios, New Hampshire, and Northwestern St. with No.1 votes, it makes the AGS poll silly.

That (NW St.) was me. What would you have called someone who picked JMU #1 in last year's preseason? Nuts.

NW St. brings back 43 letterwinners and 14 starters; they've been to the I-AA playoffs 3 out of the past 4 years. They've had the unfortunate distinction of losing to Montana by a lot each of those years... but I think the Southland might be due to make some noise this year.

Their defense should be legit this year... and defense wins championships. I think they have a shot to knock of I-A UL-Monroe and then take on NDSU at home. We'll know if they're for real very quickly, but, in the end, this is just reading some tea leaves...

[saint0917]

Why? It is pre-season. Harvard is on a 11 game win streak, SIU ended the regular season #1, New Hampshire had a great year last year, and Northwestern St. is top - 10 easily, so voting them number one is not THAT much of a stretch.

Yes Harvard is on a 11 game win streak, but they play in a WEAK Ivy league.


Brown- 6-4
Columbia- 1-9
Cornell- 4-6
Dartmouth- 1-9
Penn- 8-2 solid team
Princeton- 5-5
Yale- 5-5

OOC Games

Holy Cross- 3-8, Come on
Lafayette- 8-4 Solid
Northeastern- 5-6

They played 3 with a record of over 500, I can see making an argument for Northwestern St. I have them at 4, but the other 3?? No way. Just my opinion

[blur2005]

Overall, it's pretty solid. Beyond JMU, just because we're the champs, the rest is sort of a crapshoot. I like the 76 voters...nice and strong. I also am a bit perplexed by the #1 Harvard vote, but outside of that, no prob.

[FightinBluHen51]

I think it looks pretty darn good. I think UD might be slightly over-valued at No 7. Eight A-10 teams in the top 26 seems about right though. All four playoff teams return enough for legit title hopes hopes and Villanova, Umass and Hofstra should all be improved. I think Maine may be the biggest wildcard.


Yep, I'd say we're a 14~16 pick, and that's where I put us. I don't have any problems with Montana or GSU inside the top 10, but I think UNH makes a better case to be ranked higher than us.

[FightinBluHen51]

I agree that the traditional powers are a little to high and some other teams are a little to low but overall I think all the teams that deserve to be in it are in it. Its really hard for people not to be homers especially when its a preseason poll and there are no games to base your votes on. I think this is shown with some of the bigger fan bases at the traditional powers boosting their teams up a little higher. No harm though the placing will work itself out when the season starts.


I disagree Eagle. I think most of the Delaware people I've talked to were a little bit more critical than others. Now, that being said, I can't speak for exactly how and who voted who where. I know I said GSU was probably a top 10 team, but most of my preseason stuff isn't scientific. As a matter of fact, it's not scientific at all.

[*****]

http://www.i-aa.org/images/articles/70345_AGSPOLL.jpg

2005 Preseason AGS Poll Announced
AnyGivenSaturday.com Media Relations
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=70345

Reigning National Champion James Madison landed the top preseason spot garnering 45 first place votes in the AnyGivenSaturday.com (AGS) Poll released today, the first poll released in 2005.

Following the Dukes in the top ten were (in order) Furman, Eastern Washington, Montana, Georgia Southern, Western Kentucky, Delaware, Northwestern State, New Hampshire and Northern Iowa. ...

[TypicalTribe]

Pretty solid poll, IMO. Tough challenge to balance historical performance with realistic expectations for the upcoming season. Couple of thoughts:

1. Delaware and Montana should each be a few spots lower as both teams have some early-season questions to answer.
2. NW St. in the top 10 seems a little agressive. Would like to see them beat some quality teams early to deserve a spot there.
3. Thought the A-10 should only have 5 to start the season.
4. Don't think SHSU should be ranked. Lost a tremendous amount of firepower and they face two I-A foes early on. Most likely won't win a DI game until the end of September.
5. Just feels like it's going to be a big year for the Big Sky.

All in all, fun to be a part of it.

[GannonFan]

It would be interesting to see why Delaware polled as high as they did as most UD fans who spoke up here had them a top 20 team but not quite top 10. As for the A10 having too many teams, it's hard to get upset about it when 2 of them show up as 24th and 25th in the polls - I can't get too worked up over who the last couple teams are in the poll. The Harvard first place vote is a bit out of place - they lose one of the best QB's in the division, they weren't anywhere near first place last year, and now they get a vote. If they had played more people last year I could at least see it, but with that weak OOC and the general downturn of the Ivy it's just a bit of a stretch.

[colgate13]

The Harvard first place vote is a bit out of place - they lose one of the best QB's in the division, they weren't anywhere near first place last year, and now they get a vote. If they had played more people last year I could at least see it, but with that weak OOC and the general downturn of the Ivy it's just a bit of a stretch.

I disagree. I think they were a top 5 team last year. I think #1 preseason is a HUGE stretch, but I think they were legit last year.

[Umass74]

Seems pretty good to me. JMU has the core of its National Champion team back. They should be #1 until proven otherwise.

I had Eastern Washington #2 and Furman #3.

Montana, Maine, Harvard, William & Mary and Colgate all lost either a outstanding QB or RB that their offense was built around. I would rate those teams down a little until they prove they have a new stud.

You have to give Delaware and GSU respect for the quality of their programs.

The poll nailed my prediction for UMass. I picked them 16th. :)

[blueballs]

1. James Madison (45)
2. Furman (12)
3. Eastern Washington (10)
4. Montana (2)
5. Georgia Southern (2)
6. Western Kentucky (1)
7. Delaware
8. Northwestern State (1)
9. New Hampshire (1)
10. Northern Iowa
11. Southern Illinois (1)
12. William & Mary
13. Lehigh
14. Sam Houston State
15. Harvard (1)
16. Massachusetts
17. Cal Poly
18. North Dakota State
19. Jacksonville State
20. Lafayette
21. Montana State
22. Hampton
23. Appalachian State
24. Maine
25. Hofstra

GSU way too high, lost QB and ENTIRE d-line, MLB and FS. Maybe 25-30.
Harvard #15 w/a 1st place vote??? W/O Fitzpatrick no way.
Montana too high, maybe 8-10 range.
SIU too low, probably a top 5 team.
UNH too low, probably a top 5 team.
JSU too low, should be 12-15.

Other than those it is pretty much a crap shoot anyway.

[Retro]

I forgot to vote, ahh! :bang:

Anyway, the only thing i see a little of is that people tend to do like other polls and base their votes on last years accomplishments..

Of course, i think Mcneese will be back in the top 20 and sam houston won't, but Texas state will be a contender.. I don't think JMU will repeat and struggle to be a top ten.. Southern Illinois will also struggle to even be a top 20 team..

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It would be interesting to see why Delaware polled as high as they did as most UD fans who spoke up here had them a top 20 team but not quite top 10. As for the A10 having too many teams, it's hard to get upset about it when 2 of them show up as 24th and 25th in the polls - I can't get too worked up over who the last couple teams are in the poll. The Harvard first place vote is a bit out of place - they lose one of the best QB's in the division, they weren't anywhere near first place last year, and now they get a vote. If they had played more people last year I could at least see it, but with that weak OOC and the general downturn of the Ivy it's just a bit of a stretch.

I heartily disagree about Harvard. Harvard did lose Fitzpatrick but return almost all of their defense, receivers, RB and offensive line. They have a good chance to go undefeated again, I hate to say. I did not vote them #1 - I had them at #6 - but I do not disagree with the person who put them #1. By no means is it a "silly" #1 pick.

As for their OOC.. it included a win over Northeastern... in 2004 was #11 in the first GPI of the year! They beat Lafayette who ended the season in the TSN I-AA Top 25! They beat Penn who was ranked at the time! The "they didn't play anybody" argument doesn't wash with me.

[Eagle_77]

I have had a few people dispute my post but I guessing that didnt come off the way I wanted because both people who disputed agrees with me. lol For the power house programs you are right to put them a little higher than other teams that might be in the mix in that year because of there tradition. They wouldnt be a power house if they were not there nearly every year. And when I say higher than they should I have none of the teams I would consider power houses more than 3 spots away from where this poll has them so take if for what it is. Great turn out got to love that.

[*****]

Let's see who the first school is to pick it up and put it in a story.UNI Ranked No. 10 in 1st AGS Poll
http://unipanthers.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/052305aab.html
Panthers rank behind Western Kentucky, which is ranked no. 6 ...

[Hansel]

76 voters is pretty good.
About a perfect # IMHO

[Ivytalk]

For the record, I did not give my alma mater my #1 vote, although I do have them in the top 25. Liam O'Hagan, the incoming Harvard QB, bears a strong physical resemblance to Fitzie and, although he's green, I wouldn't sell him short. The October 1 Lehigh game will be a good barometer of how good the Crimson will be.

All in all, I think it's a pretty darn good poll.

[89Hen]

UNI Ranked No. 10 in 1st AGS Poll...
:hyped: :hurray: :hyped: :hurray: :beerchug: :bow: :hyped: :hurray:

"In comparison, no other poll or magazine had more teams in their preseason prediction last year that finished in the final top 25 than the AGS Poll."

How cool is this?! :)

[WMTribe90]

I have had a few people dispute my post but I guessing that didnt come off the way I wanted because both people who disputed agrees with me. lol For the power house programs you are right to put them a little higher than other teams that might be in the mix in that year because of there tradition. They wouldnt be a power house if they were not there nearly every year. And when I say higher than they should I have none of the teams I would consider power houses more than 3 spots away from where this poll has them so take if for what it is. Great turn out got to love that.

I agree Eagle. I couldn't make a strong argument for moving any team in the poll up or down more than two or three places.

[saint0917]

That (NW St.) was me. What would you have called someone who picked JMU #1 in last year's preseason? Nuts.

NW St. brings back 43 letterwinners and 14 starters; they've been to the I-AA playoffs 3 out of the past 4 years. They've had the unfortunate distinction of losing to Montana by a lot each of those years... but I think the Southland might be due to make some noise this year.

Their defense should be legit this year... and defense wins championships. I think they have a shot to knock of I-A UL-Monroe and then take on NDSU at home. We'll know if they're for real very quickly, but, in the end, this is just reading some tea leaves...

Picking JMU #1 last year would have been nuts, I don't think picking NW St. is nuts, I just don't see them being No.1. I picked them at No. 4. They are returning 14 starters, but there losing some key players too.

AGS Preseason All-Southland Teams

NW St. players lost

TE-Mark Morris
OL- Greg Buckley
RB-Derrick Johnese (Returning)
DL- Gary Wesley
DL- Quintene Newhouse
LB- Jamall Johnson
DB- David Pittman (Returning)

Second Team
OL- Justin Brown
LB- Paul Mefford (Returning)
DB- Russ Washington (Returning)

[saint0917]

:hyped: :hurray: :hyped: :hurray: :beerchug: :bow: :hyped: :hurray:

"In comparison, no other poll or magazine had more teams in their preseason prediction last year that finished in the final top 25 than the AGS Poll."

How cool is this?!

That's awsome, Man we know our I-AA football :nod: :bow: :hurray: :beerchug:

[Hansel]

:hyped: :hurray: :hyped: :hurray: :beerchug: :bow: :hyped: :hurray:

"In comparison, no other poll or magazine had more teams in their preseason prediction last year that finished in the final top 25 than the AGS Poll."

How cool is this?! :)

"The participants in the poll spend numerous hours daily researching I-AA football and cost their employers millions in lost productivity each year"

[*****]

UMass Football Ranked No. 16 In First Preseason Poll For 2005 Season
http://umassathletics.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/052305aaa.html

Minutemen are one of seven A-10 teams ranked by AnyGivenSaturday.com ...

[saint0917]

"The participants in the poll spend numerous hours daily researching I-AA football and cost their employers millions in lost productivity each year"

Man aint that the truth, if my boss ever found out how much time I spend on the AGS board everyday he would have my head. But like they say, what he doesn't know wont hurt him. :D

[kmax]

"The participants in the poll spend numerous hours daily researching I-AA football and cost their employers millions in lost productivity each year"
:lmao:
I missed that one in the article but thanks for the reminder not to let my boss know I participate in the poll! ;)

[*****]

Google Alert
http://www.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stories/052305aaj.html

[Ronbo]

That (NW St.) was me. What would you have called someone who picked JMU #1 in last year's preseason? Nuts.

NW St. brings back 43 letterwinners and 14 starters; they've been to the I-AA playoffs 3 out of the past 4 years. They've had the unfortunate distinction of losing to Montana by a lot each of those years... but I think the Southland might be due to make some noise this year.

Their defense should be legit this year... and defense wins championships. I think they have a shot to knock of I-A UL-Monroe and then take on NDSU at home. We'll know if they're for real very quickly, but, in the end, this is just reading some tea leaves...


The Griz have 47 returning letter winners, 13 full time starters back, 4 part time starters back (started 4 to 8 games filling in for injured players), and both kickers back. We have 8 starters and 24 letter winners back on Defense. Of the 3 seniors we lost on Defense two of them split time 50/50 with younger players, so we have two young linebackers that played 50% of the game snaps last season. Our Defense should be very good this season. On Offense we have a veteran line, two stud receivers (both 6'4") and one of the best running backs in the nation. Now let's plug in a QB and we're all set. Look for the Griz to be more run oriented to start the season while they feel out the two QB's that are competeing for the starting job.

I think anywhere in the top ten would have suited me. I'm a little less worried about the QB situation than most Griz fans. We attract very good QB talent to Montana.

[Tod]

That (NW St.) was me. What would you have called someone who picked JMU #1 in last year's preseason? Nuts.

The same may said of the person who voted EKU #3, I think. I don't remember who it was, but I assume it wasn't an EKU fan, that would be pretty blatant homerism, and I never saw anybody really call him too much on it.

Maybe he just knows something we don't. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[blukeys]

I voted O.K. I don't like seeing Harvard, Southern Illinios, New Hampshire, and Northwestern St. with No.1 votes, it makes the AGS poll silly.

Actually Saint this will give the poll more exposure. When the local paper sees that these teams got a # 1 vote it will give them an oppportunity to run a story with an extra angle. "Although ranked # ? such and such received a #1 vote from the poll. " I don't think the votes were homer votes instead I see posters going out on a limb. I see more stupidity on the writers poll. some of these guys do not even see a I-AA game all season. We have nothing to be ashamed of. This is a first draft.

[FightinBluHen51]

That's awsome, Man we know our I-AA football :nod: :bow: :hurray: :beerchug:


I think I've said this before that we are perhaps the most knowledgeable fans as far as their respecitve "followed" sports. How many I-A fan polls exist? If they did, would they as closely mirror the finish that we were able to put together last year?

[FightinBluHen51]

"The participants in the poll spend numerous hours daily researching I-AA football and cost their employers millions in lost productivity each year"

How true is that!!!!

[FightinBluHen51]

:lmao:
I missed that one in the article but thanks for the reminder not to let my boss know I participate in the poll! ;)

I filled mine out @ work this morning :D :D

[Lapper]

1. James Madison (45)
2. Furman (12)
3. Eastern Washington (10)
4. Montana (2)
5. Georgia Southern (2)
6. Western Kentucky (1)
7. Delaware
8. Northwestern State (1)
9. New Hampshire (1)
10. Northern Iowa
11. Southern Illinois (1)
12. William & Mary
13. Lehigh
14. Sam Houston State
15. Harvard (1)
16. Massachusetts
17. Cal Poly
18. North Dakota State
19. Jacksonville State
20. Lafayette
21. Montana State
22. Hampton
23. Appalachian State
24. Maine
25. Hofstra

GSU way too high, lost QB and ENTIRE d-line, MLB and FS. Maybe 25-30.
Harvard #15 w/a 1st place vote??? W/O Fitzpatrick no way.
Montana too high, maybe 8-10 range.
SIU too low, probably a top 5 team.
UNH too low, probably a top 5 team.
JSU too low, should be 12-15.

Other than those it is pretty much a crap shoot anyway.

I agree with you blue balls in your comments afterwards. I missed this vote but won't miss anymore here on out. Here's mine:

1) Eastern Washington
2) Furman
3) James Madison
4) N. Iowa
5) Montana
6) Western Kentucky
7) Delaware
8) Georgia Southern
9) W & M
10) New Hampshire
11) NW State (La.)
12) Lehigh
13) Southern Illinois
14) Maine
15) Jacksonville State
16) North Dakota St
17) Harvard
18) UMass
19) Appy State
20) Cal Poly
21) SC State
22) Montana St.
23) Lafayette
24) Southern
25) Western Carolina

[saint0917]

Actually Saint this will give the poll more exposure. When the local paper sees that these teams got a # 1 vote it will give them an oppportunity to run a story with an extra angle. "Although ranked # ? such and such received a #1 vote from the poll. " I don't think the votes were homer votes instead I see posters going out on a limb. I see more stupidity on the writers poll. some of these guys do not even see a I-AA game all season. We have nothing to be ashamed of. This is a first draft.


And no one should be ashamed of this poll, it looks really good, but, giving Harvard a No. 1 was a homer vote. If theres a good reason as to why Harvard should get a No.1, I would like to hear it. And don't tell me it's because they went 10-0 last year, that was last year, this year team will be different.

[blackfordpu]

I agree with you blue balls in your comments afterwards. I missed this vote but won't miss anymore here on out. Here's mine:

1) Eastern Washington
2) Furman
3) James Madison
4) N. Iowa
5) Montana
6) Western Kentucky
7) Delaware
8) Georgia Southern
9) W & M
10) New Hampshire
11) NW State (La.)
12) Lehigh
13) Southern Illinois
14) Maine
15) Jacksonville State
16) North Dakota St
17) Harvard
18) UMass
19) Appy State
20) Cal Poly
21) SC State
22) Montana St.
23) Lafayette
24) Southern
25) Western Carolina

You dont even have SHSU on the list? Reasons please, that seems a little unjust. :confused:

Personally I think that SHSU got the shaft in the poll. #14 is a little high, yes we lost a QB yes but we kept most of our defense.

[ccujacket]

I forgot to vote as well, but how does the ballot with Harvard as #1 not get tossed out?

[Tod]

The same may said of the person who voted EKU #3, I think. I don't remember who it was, but I assume it wasn't an EKU fan, that would be pretty blatant homerism, and I never saw anybody really call him too much on it.

Maybe he just knows something we don't. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:


...and maybe not...http://anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1036&page=3

:D :D :D :o

[*****]

I forgot to vote as well, but how does the ballot with Harvard as #1 not get tossed out?Why should it? :confused:

[Hansel]

Why should it? :confused:
I have no beef with any of the #1 votes, I case can be made for all of the teams that received them

[McNeese75]

Looks fine for early crystal ball gazin.

[ccujacket]

Why should it? :confused:
Because it's an outlier, obviously. I could have sworn the rules stated ballots with outliers and homerism would be removed?

[*****]

Because it's an outlier, obviously. I could have sworn the rules stated ballots with outliers and homerism would be removed?"outlier" :confused: Do you mean non-playoff? All schools sponsoring I-AA are eligible for every major poll. BTW, an Ivy/Harvard poster did not make that vote.

[Lapper]

"outlier" :confused: Do you mean non-playoff? All schools sponsoring I-AA are eligible for every major poll. BTW, an Ivy/Harvard poster did not make that vote.

"homerism" = :doh: ?

[Mr. C]

Yes Harvard is on a 11 game win streak, but they play in a WEAK Ivy league.


Brown- 6-4
Columbia- 1-9
Cornell- 4-6
Dartmouth- 1-9
Penn- 8-2 solid team
Princeton- 5-5
Yale- 5-5

OOC Games

Holy Cross- 3-8, Come on
Lafayette- 8-4 Solid
Northeastern- 5-6

They played 3 with a record of over 500, I can see making an argument for Northwestern St. I have them at 4, but the other 3?? No way. Just my opinion
Just to set the record straight, the person you are calling "Silly" for picking Harvard No. 1 is Mr. C. I struggled with my No. 1 vote and didn't see a clear favorite, though I like teams like Eastern Washington, Furman, Northwestern State, New Hampshire and Georgia Southern. Do you have any clue to how good Harvard is? How many times did you see them play last year? Clifton Dawson is the best running back in I-AA. Harvard has a great receiver, a very good, experienced defense. This is a quality team. Everything I have been told about their young quarterback is that he is as good as, if not better than, NFL draft choice Ryan Fitzpatrick. People will see when they play a very good Lehigh club early in the season. Almost all of the top teams (including JMU) have holes to fill. I don't see anything wrong with ANY of the first-place votes. Harvard would have been a quarterfinalist, or a semifinalist last year with its talent and should be even better this season. Just because a lot of people don't see them play, or they don't play in the mighty A-10 doesn't make me silly for recognizing them as one of the best teams in the country. Do your homework Mr. Saint.

[rcny46]

Just thought I'd throw my two cents worth into the mix.While a little bit different than the prevailing opinion so far,here are my top 10.

1) Furman
2)JMU
3)Montana
4)E.Washington
5)UNI
6)WKU
7)Georgia Southern
8)UMass.
9)So.Illinois U.
10)Montana St.

PS-I literally can't wait for the `05 seasom to begin.

[Mr. C]

Seems pretty good to me. JMU has the core of its National Champion team back. They should be #1 until proven otherwise.

I had Eastern Washington #2 and Furman #3.

Montana, Maine, Harvard, William & Mary and Colgate all lost either a outstanding QB or RB that their offense was built around. I would rate those teams down a little until they prove they have a new stud.

You have to give Delaware and GSU respect for the quality of their programs.

The poll nailed my prediction for UMass. I picked them 16th. :)
For the record, JMU lost five of its 11 defensive starters, including its entire linebacking corp, and three of its five offensive linemen (though the Dukies have tremendous depth there last season). They also have holes to fill among the receivers, with only Boxley returning. Furman (which I voted No. 3) has to replace two receivers in NFL camps and about half of its defense. William & Mary, Harvard and Montana lost their QBs, but have truckloads of talent back. This time of year, no one is a sure thing.

[Mr. C]

"homerism" = :doh: ?
Trust me Lapper, your chickies wouldn't want any part of Harvard.

[ccujacket]

"outlier" :confused: Do you mean non-playoff? All schools sponsoring I-AA are eligible for every major poll. BTW, an Ivy/Harvard poster did not make that vote.
No I mean a statistical outlier. I'm assuming it would be at least two standard deviations above the mean.

[foghorn]

"outlier" :confused: Do you mean non-playoff? All schools sponsoring I-AA are eligible for every major poll. BTW, an Ivy/Harvard poster did not make that vote.


Harvard being #1 is a moot point, as is any other non-playoff participating team. Voting for an Ivy is a wasted vote. BTW, as a Hens fan, I also think we're ranked too high. I'll take it though. Go Hens!

[Mr. C]

Harvard being #1 is a moot point, as is any other non-playoff participating team. Voting for an Ivy is a wasted vote. BTW, as a Hens fan, I also think we're ranked too high. I'll take it though. Go Hens!
Why is it a moot point, or a wasted vote? The playoffs will decide the national champion. That's not what this poll is all about. We were asked to pick who we thought was the best team. I don't care if they play in the SWAC, the PFL, the MAAC, the NEC, the not-so-Big South, or the Ivy League. If I think they are No. 1, I'm going to vote them No. 1.

[exbearkat]

4. Don't think SHSU should be ranked. Lost a tremendous amount of firepower and they face two I-A foes early on. Most likely won't win a DI game until the end of September.I am not sure if SH is worthy of a #14 ranking as of yet, but should certainly be in the top 20. Yes, QB Dustin Long and WR's Mathenia and Fuller are gone, but they have more than capable replacements taking over - namely QB Noah Allen - a kid numerous people close to the program felt was the best qb on the team LAST year.

On top of everything else, with MLB and potential Buchanan Candidate Marcus Mikulec leading a veteran front seven (all starters return from a year ago), the SH DEFENSE might actually win some games for us this year. ;)

[WUTNDITWAA]

After much debate, the AGS Bottom 10 preseason poll won't be released until early September. :D :D :D

[Rob]

Mr. C, has a team ever gone on to be No. 1 in the nation the year after they lost their QB to the NFL and the new starting QB had never played a down of collegiate football?

(No.)

I'll be shocked if anyone has Harvard in their top 15 at the end of the season.


Also, Mr. C., you just pointed out that JMU lost five of its defensive starters. Are you aware that Harvard did as well?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Mr. C, has a team ever gone on to be No. 1 in the nation the year after they lost their QB to the NFL and the new starting QB had never played a down of collegiate football?

(No.)

I'll be shocked if anyone has Harvard in their top 15 at the end of the season.


Also, Mr. C., you just pointed out that JMU lost five of its defensive starters. Are you aware that Harvard did as well?

Well, since *no team* has gone on to be #1 in the nation the year after they lost their QB, and they (gasp) lost 5 defensive starters, then OBVIOUSLY Mr. C. is a moron and his ballot should be thrown out! What gall! Picking a team that's not in the A-10 or SoCon as his #1 team! It's un-Mrican!

Get real everybody. Harvard is not a bull**** pick. They are a good team. Please get over yourselves.

[Rob]

I never said I thought Mr. C. was a moron or that his ballot should be thrown out and I'm all for coloring outside the lines, I was just pointing out that Harvard's new QB, who could be the next Joe Montana for all I know, has never faced a collegiate defense before.

Mr. C. gave an explanation why he chose Harvard as his No. 1 (and I appreciate that, he didn't have to) and I gave two reasons why I think it's not the best pick (inexperienced QB, a few holes on defense).

Just as picking Harvard No. 1 "is not a bull**** pick," neither is leaving them out of your top 20.

[umassfan]

For the record, JMU lost five of its 11 defensive starters, including its entire linebacking corp, and three of its five offensive linemen (though the Dukies have tremendous depth there last season). They also have holes to fill among the receivers, with only Boxley returning. Furman (which I voted No. 3) has to replace two receivers in NFL camps and about half of its defense. William & Mary, Harvard and Montana lost their QBs, but have truckloads of talent back. This time of year, no one is a sure thing.


Hell if I decided to vote I should have put UMass number 1 seems we had just three starters graduate. The OLineman was replaced by a quality starter, the the WR is replaced by quality depth and the FB is our only hole. We return all 11 starters on D and that includes A10 D player of the year. We also return A10 leading rusher Steve Baylark. UMass is my preseason number 1!

[*****]

Griz picked fourth in preseason poll
http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/teams/football.stm

[polsongrizz]

Griz picked fourth in preseason poll
http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/teams/football.stm
Glad to see the main Griz site has pick up on the AGS poll, good for them... ;)

[saint0917]

Just to set the record straight, the person you are calling "Silly" for picking Harvard No. 1 is Mr. C. I struggled with my No. 1 vote and didn't see a clear favorite, though I like teams like Eastern Washington, Furman, Northwestern State, New Hampshire and Georgia Southern. Do you have any clue to how good Harvard is? How many times did you see them play last year? Clifton Dawson is the best running back in I-AA. Harvard has a great receiver, a very good, experienced defense. This is a quality team. Everything I have been told about their young quarterback is that he is as good as, if not better than, NFL draft choice Ryan Fitzpatrick. People will see when they play a very good Lehigh club early in the season. Almost all of the top teams (including JMU) have holes to fill. I don't see anything wrong with ANY of the first-place votes. Harvard would have been a quarterfinalist, or a semifinalist last year with its talent and should be even better this season. Just because a lot of people don't see them play, or they don't play in the mighty A-10 doesn't make me silly for recognizing them as one of the best teams in the country. Do your homework Mr. Saint.

I don't need to see Harvard play to know their NOT a No.1 team. Did you see Georgia Southern play? Did you see Furman Play? I'm guessing not. Sure Harvard could win 8-9 games this year, And so could Rhode Island if they played in a WEAK Ivy League. I think it is you Mr. (That was a Homer pick) C that needs to do more homework. :rotateh:

[saint0917]

I think I've said this before that we are perhaps the most knowledgeable fans as far as their respecitve "followed" sports. How many I-A fan polls exist? If they did, would they as closely mirror the finish that we were able to put together last year?

I agree with you 110% on that, not only do I like to read about Umass football, but I like to go to other websites like Delaware, Montana, Georgia Southern, Albany, Harvard, etc.. to read about there teams, no guestion we are the most "knowledgeable fans", we do our homework, that's why we don't don't pick Harvard No. 1 :D :eyebrow: :nonono2: :nono: xidiotx :doh:

[FU97]

Glad to see Furman getting some props.

[TexasTerror]

I am not sure if SH is worthy of a #14 ranking as of yet, but should certainly be in the top 20. Yes, QB Dustin Long and WR's Mathenia and Fuller are gone, but they have more than capable replacements taking over - namely QB Noah Allen - a kid numerous people close to the program felt was the best qb on the team LAST year.

I think the #14 is close to what we should have expected. I-AA semifinalists last year and yes, we do Dustin Long. No doubt we should be top 20, I put the Kats at 15th. Surprised some people had them higher than that. I'd expect a free fall following the Tech/UH games. Kats will have to show they can compete after those.

[galojay]

Ain't it amazing how it ends up with a nice, reasonable poll after all these disparate polls, including "crazy" ones with EKU at #3 and Bucknell at #25? :cool:

Looks way reasonable to me, except for the fact that there are 7 A-10 teams.

That's why I said "OK".


Someone has yet to figure out Roy Kidd has retired.

[kats89]

We will probably be 2-2 going into conference, but don't think we can't sneak up on Univ of Houston. We are a couple of receivers shy of the offense being back to normal. True we lost our QB from last year, plus 5 recievers, but the rest of the team is fairly solid. The QB this year will turn some heads and we have our starting RB and 75% of our OL is back. Defense looked VERY good in the spring game.

[foghorn]

Why is it a moot point, or a wasted vote? The playoffs will decide the national champion. That's not what this poll is all about. We were asked to pick who we thought was the best team. I don't care if they play in the SWAC, the PFL, the MAAC, the NEC, the not-so-Big South, or the Ivy League. If I think they are No. 1, I'm going to vote them No. 1.

I think it's a moot point for an obvious reason: No one will ever know if your proclamation will actually happen. What makes Div. I-AA stand out is the playoff system, where the best team is determined on the field instead of in one's imagination.

This is not to slight Harvard, as I would love to play your team and I'm sure you would love to reciprocate. The alumni of the Ivies should band together and demand playoff status from your school presidents. Your absence precludes your teams from gaining accolades, rewards and recognition which they may very well deserve, but will never receive, given the current attitudes. Too bad. Go Hens!

[FU97]

Mr. C, has a team ever gone on to be No. 1 in the nation the year after they lost their QB to the NFL and the new starting QB had never played a down of collegiate football?

(No.)

I'll be shocked if anyone has Harvard in their top 15 at the end of the season.


Also, Mr. C., you just pointed out that JMU lost five of its defensive starters. Are you aware that Harvard did as well?

Not I-AA, but Tennessee did it after they lost Manning.

[TypicalTribe]

I think the #14 is close to what we should have expected. I-AA semifinalists last year and yes, we do Dustin Long. No doubt we should be top 20, I put the Kats at 15th. Surprised some people had them higher than that. I'd expect a free fall following the Tech/UH games. Kats will have to show they can compete after those.

Personally, I didn't put them in the top 25 because I'm not sure they belong there. Changing coaches, losing the Payton runner-up and their two top receivers are a significant blow, especially when the passing game was their greatest strength last year. Plus, unless they upset Houston or Tech, we won't learn much from their first three games. Honestly, I can't see ranking them unless/until they beat NW St. on 10/8 to move to 3-2.

[WMTribe90]

With respect to Harvard, I believe they were a top 10 team last year and would have likely won a first round playoff game at a minimum. However, they play in a weak conference with the exception of UPenn and with the exception of NU they didn't help their SOS in their OOC games. So, abesnt the playoffs, your basically assigning a #1 ranking to Harvard based on two good, but not great wins.

Bottom line, Harvard could possibly be the best team in I-AA (this year or last), but they'll never be able to prove it on the field because their SOS is too weak and they won't participate in the palyoffs.

Beating Lehigh would go a long ways, but unless they crush the Mountain Hawks, its still just one game/win. Until Harvard upgrades their OOC schedule and/or joins the palyoffs I can't see ranking them higher than #5 because even if you believe they are a top 5 team how could you rank them that high when they only play one or two ranked teams a year, whereas teams in the top 5 have typically played anywhere between four and seven ranked teams over the course of a season?

[Chi Panther]

I picked UNI #10....and thats where they are.... :D

[Josh]

Hell if I decided to vote I should have put UMass number 1 seems we had just three starters graduate. The OLineman was replaced by a quality starter, the the WR is replaced by quality depth and the FB is our only hole. We return all 11 starters on D and that includes A10 D player of the year. We also return A10 leading rusher Steve Baylark. UMass is my preseason number 1!

I do think picking JMU is a dumb pick. They lost too much and just don't have enough coming back to repeat.

[blackfordpu]

I am not sure if SH is worthy of a #14 ranking as of yet, but should certainly be in the top 20. Yes, QB Dustin Long and WR's Mathenia and Fuller are gone, but they have more than capable replacements taking over - namely QB Noah Allen - a kid numerous people close to the program felt was the best qb on the team LAST year.

On top of everything else, with MLB and potential Buchanan Candidate Marcus Mikulec leading a veteran front seven (all starters return from a year ago), the SH DEFENSE might actually win some games for us this year. ;)

Hey, it won a couple last year. Remember McNeese and SFA? :)

One could even argue that the defense helped win the EWU game too with that blocked field goal.

[*****]

CSTV:
James Madison No. 1 in First Preseason Poll

[89Hen]

With respect to Harvard, I believe they were a top 10 team last year and would have likely won a first round playoff game at a minimum.
All depends on the draw. They beat Lafayette in the regular season and I think they could have beaten a couple of the other teams, but there's a good chance they would have drawn UNH and I don't think they would have beaten them.

[89Hen]

We have more votes of opinion on the poll than we had vote in the poll. :mad:

IMO, if you were eligible to vote in the poll and didn't, you shouldn't be commenting on it at all, except to say 'good job guys'.

[youwouldno]

I don't think I would ever vote Harvard top 10, until they schedule some serious opposition at least. There's no doubt they were good last year, though how good is unclear. Since the I-AA champ will be the final poll #1, and Harvard cannot possibly be the I-AA champ, I think it's flawed voting to put them in that spot, since ultimately a preseason poll is a prediction.

I also disagree with putting JMU #1 by default. It's one thing if a voter truly believes they are the best, but it appears many just figured the 2004 postseason #1 should be the 2005 preseason #1, even though it's not the same team. Perhaps part of the problem is that there is no consensus #1 on talent... a number of teams have a case there.

I struggled quite a bit, but after initially planning on putting EWU first I put Furman (my team) first. It's not so much that we're that loaded everywhere as I could not find a team I was more comfortable with in that spot. We have one of the best offensive players in I-AA leading the offense and perhaps the best overall I-AA defensive player leading the defense.

Every good team lost key players, which is why it makes sense to defer to teams that have proven their ability to replace what they lose (i.e. GSU, who I rated in the top 5).

[FightinBluHen51]

We have more votes of opinion on the poll than we had vote in the poll. :mad:

IMO, if you were eligible to vote in the poll and didn't, you shouldn't be commenting on it at all, except to say 'good job guys'.


Definately agree with that statement. It got me to wondering if we will ever close out the poll as far as voters are concerened? As in, limit it to say 100 voters or what not? If someone misses more than 2 weeks of voting in one season, they forefit their right to vote until next season, but should we move someone up in the pecking order? Just a quick thought.

[Eaglegus2]

I do think picking JMU is a dumb pick. They lost too much and just don't have enough coming back to repeat.

Picking JMU may be the dumbest pick I make.

Until the 2005 football season starts, JMU is still the Champion and they are undefeated.

Who was your choice to be #1?

We all have our reasoning behind our picks. I respect those who made their choices.

Also, very few Teams have the opportunity to repeat with back to back championships.

Georgia Southern has done it three times.

[*****]

Saint and Foghorn,
You can have your opinions on Harvard but I guarantee you that your characterization of Mr. C (who I work with) as a Harvard "homer" is ridiculous. I saw UMass barely beat Northeastern in person last year but I didn't see Harvard stomp Northeastern. I saw Harvard shutout Columbia in person and I saw the Crimson stomp Lafayette on tape. The Ivy League is not the patsy league that many here seem to think, Harvard finished #5 in the GPI last year as did the Ivy League, Penn was #15. Harvard returns 15 starters from last year and are very experienced at most positions. If you want to read more try this:
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=69487

[*****]

I do think picking JMU is a dumb pick. They lost too much and just don't have enough coming back to repeat.Learn:
http://www.jmusports.com/Team/QuickFacts/2.asp?TeamID=2

[WMTribe90]

All depends on the draw. They beat Lafayette in the regular season and I think they could have beaten a couple of the other teams, but there's a good chance they would have drawn UNH and I don't think they would have beaten them.

89Hen,

Your right, I based my prediction of a probable first round win on my belief that Harvard was a top eight caliber team. In reality, it would likely have come down to seeding and a little bit of luck too.

[saint0917]

Saint and Foghorn,
You can have your opinions on Harvard but I guarantee you that your characterization of Mr. C (who I work with) as a Harvard "homer" is ridiculous. I saw UMass barely beat Northeastern in person last year but I didn't see Harvard stomp Northeastern. I saw Harvard shutout Columbia in person and I saw the Crimson stomp Lafayette on tape. The Ivy League is not the patsy league that many here seem to think, Harvard finished #5 in the GPI last year as did the Ivy League, Penn was #15. Harvard returns 15 starters from last year and are very experienced at most positions. If you want to read more try this:
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=69487

I don't think I characterized Mr. C as a "Homer" or a "Harvard Homer" But, picking Harvard No.1 in ALL of I-AA IS a homer pick. I think Harvard was a good team last year, as a matter of fact I think I had them in the Top 10 most of the year. But this year they will have to do it with a New QB. There is just no way Mr. C can justify having Harvard No.1 (nor does he have to) but, if your going to through your hat in the ring and tell us your picks your going to get criticized as you can see by all these anti-Harvard post. Trust me I took my fair of shots last year for some of the teams I had in the Top 25. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. ;)

[*****]

I don't think I characterized Mr. C as a "Homer" or a "Harvard Homer" But, picking Harvard No.1 in ALL of I-AA IS a homer pick. ...Sorry, I interpret "homer" as someone who puts their home team unreasonably above everyone else. Thus calling his #1 pick a "homer" one would mean you thought he was a Harvard "homer."

[ngineer]

With respect to Harvard, I believe they were a top 10 team last year and would have likely won a first round playoff game at a minimum. However, they play in a weak conference with the exception of UPenn and with the exception of NU they didn't help their SOS in their OOC games. So, abesnt the playoffs, your basically assigning a #1 ranking to Harvard based on two good, but not great wins.

Bottom line, Harvard could possibly be the best team in I-AA (this year or last), but they'll never be able to prove it on the field because their SOS is too weak and they won't participate in the palyoffs.

Beating Lehigh would go a long ways, but unless they crush the Mountain Hawks, its still just one game/win. Until Harvard upgrades their OOC schedule and/or joins the palyoffs I can't see ranking them higher than #5 because even if you believe they are a top 5 team how could you rank them that high when they only play one or two ranked teams a year, whereas teams in the top 5 have typically played anywhere between four and seven ranked teams over the course of a season?

Good point about the importance of that October 1 meeting in Cambridge. For all intents and purposes, that will be Harvard's rallying cry--that, this will be their playoff game to "show the rest of I-AA". Playing them up there will be tough. Should be a great weekend.

[89Hen]

If someone misses more than 2 weeks of voting in one season, they forefit their right to vote until next season
That's already in the rules, but it's miss 3 weeks.

[saint0917]

Sorry, I interpret "homer" as someone who puts their home team unreasonably above everyone else. Thus calling his #1 pick a "homer" one would mean you thought he was a Harvard "homer."

Well, I interpret "homer" as in Homer Simpson "goofy" it was a goofy pick. And I'm NOT implying that Mr. C is "goofy" or that Harvard is "Goofy" it was just a "homer" (goofy) pick. I apologize to you and Mr. C if you took it the wrong way, I'm not here to disrespect anyone, and I'm sorry if I did. I'll just say that picking Harvard wasn't a "homer" or "goofy" pick, just not one I would have made. How's that?

[foghorn]

Ralph, I don't know Mr. C and I never referred to him as a "homer". Obviously, he has an association with Harvard and I certainly respect that and admire his loyalty to his alma mater. I'm kind of surprised though, that you're kind of undermining the importance of the playoffs as being the ultimate determinate of who's number ONE.
Power ratings are just as mythological as the crowning of Div.I-A Champion without having to earn it on the field. The Ivy League and the SWAC should get their priorities in order and declare themselves eligible for the National Championship. Without their participation their ultimate goal is to win their conference championship and no more. Until they change their policy, they should be viewed as such and not considered for any pre-season poll, because any apparent subsequent success cannot be validated. Go Hens!

[putter]

Saint and Foghorn,
You can have your opinions on Harvard but I guarantee you that your characterization of Mr. C (who I work with) as a Harvard "homer" is ridiculous. I saw UMass barely beat Northeastern in person last year but I didn't see Harvard stomp Northeastern. I saw Harvard shutout Columbia in person and I saw the Crimson stomp Lafayette on tape. The Ivy League is not the patsy league that many here seem to think, Harvard finished #5 in the GPI last year as did the Ivy League, Penn was #15. Harvard returns 15 starters from last year and are very experienced at most positions. If you want to read more try this:
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=69487
This type of analysis is the only reason I ranked Harvard. I have never (unfortunately) seen them play and since they don't play Delaware, Georgia Southern, etc I can not grade where they are. I realize that the poll is to rank the best teams in I-AA but I would like them to be playoff eligible so we can evaluate how we did (or at least play more A-10 etc teams so I can compare).

[*****]

Well, I interpret "homer" as in Homer Simpson "goofy" it was a goofy pick. ...Again, sorry. I just misinterpreted what you said.

[*****]

Ralph, I don't know Mr. C and I never referred to him as a "homer". Obviously, he has an association with Harvard and I certainly respect that and admire his loyalty to his alma mater. I'm kind of surprised though, that you're kind of undermining the importance of the playoffs as being the ultimate determinate of who's number ONE. ...I know Mr. C and he has no association with Harvard. In fact he is a Fresno State grad (hence his helmet avatar). I would never undermine the importance of the playoffs. I do think it is possible for a non-playoff team to be the best in the country, we'd just never find out if they could have won the national championship. Count me as someone who wants the Ivy and SWAC to send their best teams to the playoffs. But I don't want to ignore them just because they don't. That's why all the major polls include them (last year Harvard was #12/13 and Penn was #21/22).

[Mr. C]

Mr. C, has a team ever gone on to be No. 1 in the nation the year after they lost their QB to the NFL and the new starting QB had never played a down of collegiate football?

(No.)

I'll be shocked if anyone has Harvard in their top 15 at the end of the season.


Also, Mr. C., you just pointed out that JMU lost five of its defensive starters. Are you aware that Harvard did as well?
Pretty darn close. Marshall was within seconds of winning the 1995 national title with freshman quarterback Chad Pennington. The previous year's QB was coach Jim Donnan's son, Todd, a very slick performer and an academic stud like Fitzpatrick, to boot. Donnan might not have made it in the NFL, but he was very good (finalist and semifinalist in two years as a starter, two-time All-SoCon first team). It would take some extra research to come up with a better answer than that.

Harvard is more balanced offensively than JMU (the Dukes are primarily a running team) and though they lost some defenders, they didn't lose their complete set of linebackers.

Harvard also has an excellent coach in Tim Murphy, who has established a program that is very capable of plugging holes without missing a beat. Everything I hear about the new QB is that O'Hagan is going to be great. I had Harvard in my top-10 last year and I don't see them falling out of the top 15 this season, unless they get too much of that anti-Ivy bias that we sometimes see around here.

I never said JMU isn't going to be good. I just don't know if a team with their experience level on defense will stand up to the A-10. They could be 6-5 and still be one of the top teams in the country.

[Mr. C]

I don't need to see Harvard play to know their NOT a No.1 team. Did you see Georgia Southern play? Did you see Furman Play? I'm guessing not. Sure Harvard could win 8-9 games this year, And so could Rhode Island if they played in a WEAK Ivy League. I think it is you Mr. (That was a Homer pick) C that needs to do more homework. :rotateh:
I need to do more homework? I have seen Georgia Southern and Furman play IN PERSON at least once every year since 1995 (Furman every year since 1993), sometimes two or three times per year IN PERSON. I watch every team I can each week on TV (some delayed broadcasts), or on tape, in addition to being in a press box each Saturday. I also write several columns a week on I-AA football and talk to plenty of coaches, players etc.

To say "I don't need to see Harvard play to know their NOT a No. 1 team" shows you are the one not doing your homework. I've seen tape of this team a bunch of times over the past two years (including TWO convincing wins over Northeastern — I'd like to see UMass schedule the Crimson) and probably know as much as the Crimson as anyone non-alum living outside of New England.

By the way, I also think that experienced UMass will battle with New Hampshire and Hofstra for the divisional crown in the A-10 this year. The only thing that kept me from moving UMass higher than the teens in my poll was the fact that they were just 6-5 last year.

[putter]

Personally I don't think anyone should have their pre-season poll denied (unless it is just totally stupid!) because it is a pre-season poll. I rely on the input of this board for 70% of my picks becuase I don't get the opportunity to watch them play. Once you get into the season it all shakes out and then you will see any real bias and lack of knowledge but pre-season should have some leeway because we are all guessing.

[Tribe4SF]

The Ivy League is not the patsy league that many here seem to think..

Sorry Ralph, but I disagree. Cornell finished 3rd in The Ivy last year and was handled easily by Towson. I just don't think it's one of the better conferences.

[Mr. C]

Ralph, I don't know Mr. C and I never referred to him as a "homer". Obviously, he has an association with Harvard and I certainly respect that and admire his loyalty to his alma mater.
Can I start putting my "Harvard" education on my resume now?

[*****]

Sorry Ralph, but I disagree. Cornell finished 3rd in The Ivy last year and was handled easily by Towson. I just don't think it's one of the better conferences.Top-heavy yes, patsy no.

[colgate13]

Sorry Ralph, but I disagree. Cornell finished 3rd in The Ivy last year and was handled easily by Towson. I just don't think it's one of the better conferences.

Cornell's a young team with a new coach. They found themselves later in the season (the Towson game was 3rd of the season) and played some very close games to "better" teams.

Cornell lost to Bucknell by 6, Harvard by 10, Colgate by 4, Brown by 4 and Penn by 6 (and for the record Towson won by 10). They were 1 TD a game away from 8-2.

The Ivy is more balanced than the PL has been in the past (but I think that's changing) and as evidenced by the little interconference play that exists, the top 2-3 Ivy teams can hang with a lot of the country.

[saint0917]

To say "I don't need to see Harvard play to know their NOT a No. 1 team" shows you are the one not doing your homework.



This is hands down one of, if not the dumbest statements I have ever read. So what your saying is if we didn't see these teams play live or on T.V. we couldn't possibly know where to rank them? I willing to bet that if you asked everyone who voted for there Top 25 that they didn't see half of them live or on T.V. You must think the AGS poll is a real joke SHAME ON YOU :nono: :nonono2: And those of us who don't have the chance to see them live, there is this little invention called the internet for us to get information. Maybe you should try it some time to do YOUR homework, because going to ALL these games obviously isn't helping you. :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

[Grande Rosso]

We had 76 voters submit.

How many voters do the other recognized polls usually have?

[Josh]

We had 76 voters submit.

How many voters do the other recognized polls usually have?

TSN has 100 voters who vote at one point in the season. Over 100 ballots were sent in for the Payton and Buchanan but only about 70 or 80 something people vote in one poll.

I think AGS had more voters than any other poll.

[Tribe4SF]

There were 67 voters in the final SN poll and only 21 in the final AGS.

[*****]

We had 76 voters submit.

How many voters do the other recognized polls usually have?Sports Network had 71 last year preseason. AGS in its first year had 55.
http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=59749

Sports Network polls SIDs and media for all the schools... 200+ potential voters. Still their voters did no better than AGS. We'll see this year... as I mentioned they and the others have the advantage of our advice, which is why we do the AGS Poll.

[Josh]

Sports Network had 71 last year preseason. AGS in its first year had 55.
http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=59749

Sports Network polls SIDs and media for all the schools... 200+ potential voters. Still their voters did no better than AGS. We'll see this year... as I mentioned they and the others have the advantage of our advice, which is why we do the AGS Poll.

I guarantee some will not even look at I-AA on their own anymore. Just take S&S, Athlon, AGS, Lindy's and those and then come up with an opinion based on those polls.

I wish more people who were eligible to vote would vote too.

[*****]

...I wish more people who were eligible to vote would vote too.Me too.

[Wmbgskip]

Personally, I would love to vote...but I just don't think most of the topics need my input, so I don't rack up the post counts.

Que sera, sera.

--Skip

[McNeese75]

Hey, it won a couple last year. Remember McNeese and SFA? :)

One could even argue that the defense helped win the EWU game too with that blocked field goal.

You are kidding aren't you??? I certainly would not be touting your defense last year based on the track meet with the Cowboys. I was there, and on that day, McNeese, as bad as we were last year, probably should have one that game in your house.

I think your offense will be adequate but nowhere near what you had last year. Your defense is going to have to really step up to get you back to where you were last year.

We are all going to have our hands full with the Demons this year!!

[Mr. C]

This is hands down one of, if not the dumbest statements I have ever read. So what your saying is if we didn't see these teams play live or on T.V. we couldn't possibly know where to rank them? I willing to bet that if you asked everyone who voted for there Top 25 that they didn't see half of them live or on T.V. You must think the AGS poll is a real joke SHAME ON YOU :nono: :nonono2: And those of us who don't have the chance to see them live, there is this little invention called the internet for us to get information. Maybe you should try it some time to do YOUR homework, because going to ALL these games obviously isn't helping you. :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse
The only DUMB statement is the one that says you don't have to see a team play to know they are not good enough to be No. 1. I take this poll very seriously. I don't know where you can draw any other conclusion. Get off of the Harvard bashing (as UMass folks seem to like to do) and quit with all of the insults (there is a smack board for that). I do as much homework as anyone before voting. Obviously, you know more from seeing a team play than not seeing them play. Get a clue, dude.

[wkuhillhound]

The only DUMB statement is the one that says you don't have to see a team play to know they are not good enough to be No. 1. I take this poll very seriously. I don't know where you can draw any other conclusion. Get off of the Harvard bashing (as UMass folks seem to like to do) and quit with all of the insults (there is a smack board for that). I do as much homework as anyone before voting. Obviously, you know more from seeing a team play than not seeing them play. Get a clue, dude.

AMEN TO THAT!!!
:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[saint0917]

The only DUMB statement is the one that says you don't have to see a team play to know they are not good enough to be No. 1. I take this poll very seriously. I don't know where you can draw any other conclusion. Get off of the Harvard bashing (as UMass folks seem to like to do) and quit with all of the insults (there is a smack board for that). I do as much homework as anyone before voting. Obviously, you know more from seeing a team play than not seeing them play. Get a clue, dude.

No, the dumb statement of the year comes from YOU Mr. C, implying we have to see teams play in order to rank them. So Ralph, I would like to retract my No. 1 vote (Eastern Washington) I never saw them play, and according to Mr. C you CAN'T rank teams if you didn't see them play. Dude YOU need to get a clue, and grow up. When my son was 2 he whined less than you and WKUhillhound. :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: Go see more teams play live Mr. C your doing a great job. AMEN TO THAT

[saint0917]

AMEN TO THAT!!!
:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xlolx xlolx xlolx :anim_chai :anim_chai :rotateh: :rotateh:

[TypicalTribe]

No, the dumb statement of the year comes from YOU Mr. C, implying we have to see teams play in order to rank them. So Ralph, I would like to retract my No. 1 vote (Eastern Washington) I never saw them play, and according to Mr. C you CAN'T rank teams if you didn't see them play. Dude YOU need to get a clue, and grow up. When my son was 2 he whined less than you and WKUhillhound. :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: Go see more teams play live Mr. C your doing a great job. AMEN TO THAT

Hey saint, do you have a personal vendetta going on or is there some other reason you are attacking one of the more respected elder statesmen of the I-AA community? It's not coming across real well.

I don't agree with Harvard at #1, but I respect Mr. C enough to know that he put them there for a reason.

Also, he never said you had to see teams to rank them, all he was saying was that it's harder to say a team couldn't possibly be that good if you haven't seen them play.

[FightinBluHen51]

That's already in the rules, but it's miss 3 weeks.


Yeah, I know that is.

[saint0917]

Hey saint, do you have a personal vendetta going on or is there some other reason you are attacking one of the more respected elder statesmen of the I-AA community? It's not coming across real well.

I don't agree with Harvard at #1, but I respect Mr. C enough to know that he put them there for a reason.

Also, he never said you had to see teams to rank them, all he was saying was that it's harder to say a team couldn't possibly be that good if you haven't seen them play.

I have no vendetta against anyone, I have apologized to Mr.C and WKUhillhound, if they want to accept it great, if not, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Please read my last post here. It really is time to put this Harvard thing to rest. http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=970&page=3

[colgate13]

It really is time to put this Harvard thing to rest.

Agreed! Especially since when Lehigh takes it to them in the fall, there won't be anything worth talking about in Cambridge... :D

[dbackjon]

Personally, I would love to vote...but I just don't think most of the topics need my input, so I don't rack up the post counts.

Que sera, sera.

--Skip

There are still several months to work on that.....just stop by the AGS Lounge.








Hint - talking about Cap'n Cat and Polson's secret romance is a sure fire way to add posts..... :D

[TypicalTribe]

I have no vendetta against anyone, I have apologized to Mr.C and WKUhillhound, if they want to accept it great, if not, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Please read my last post here. It really is time to put this Harvard thing to rest. http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=970&page=3

Good to see. Glad to know working things out has at least been attempted.

[Pantherpower]

I'm sure the wait for my preseason top 25 has been excruciating to endure, so without further adieu, drumroll please, ladies and gentlemen, your preseason top 25:


1) James Madison
2) Eastern Washington
3) Furman
4) Montana
5) UNI
6) New Hampshire
7) Western Kentucky
8) Georgia Southern
9) Delaware
10) Harvard
11) North Dakota State
12) Lehigh
13) William & Mary
14) McNeese St.
15) Lafayette
16) Montana State
17) Northwestern State
18) Jacksonville State
19) Sam Houston State
20) Appalachian State
21) UMass
22) Southern Illinois
23) Cal Poly
24) Portland State
25) Maine :nod:

[ngineer]

Agreed! Especially since when Lehigh takes it to them in the fall, there won't be anything worth talking about in Cambridge... :D

Gee, thanks 13. Hopefully after you guys have taken the Minutemen to the woodshed the Commonwealth of Massachusetts will have had enough of the PL :D

[blackfordpu]

You are kidding aren't you??? I certainly would not be touting your defense last year based on the track meet with the Cowboys. I was there, and on that day, McNeese, as bad as we were last year, probably should have one that game in your house.

I think your offense will be adequate but nowhere near what you had last year. Your defense is going to have to really step up to get you back to where you were last year.

We are all going to have our hands full with the Demons this year!!

That may be but you did not win that game because of a blocked field goal by our defense.

[TxState_GO_CATS!]

can anyone say "sleeper"?!

I wasn't expecting Texas State to be in the Top 25 coming off a losing season, but yeah. I know Texas State hasn't won in awhile, but we are coming off a 5-6 season with a first year head coach (new coaching system for the third straight year *sigh*) and with the TOUGHEST D-IAA schedule in all of I-AA football last year (complete with a close (should have been a victory) 24-17 loss at Baylor with a redshirt freshman QB starting his first ever collegiate game). This year's Bobcats should be the most talented group this university has fielded since our glory years some 20 years ago. The Cats return 43 lettermen (including QB "Super" Barrick Nealy), 19 starters (10 on defense!) and have 7 home games...

we're out of excuses. :nod: i expect AT LEAST a 8-3 season (we have a comparitively easy OOC schedule sans the game at Texas A&M) and to be in the hunt for the Southland Conference championship.

Oh...and a playoff berth would be nice...

TEXAS STATE!

[*****]

FAMU had, hands-down the toughest schedule last year. Six I-As.

[TxState_GO_CATS!]

oh wow. didn't know that.

guess i shouldn't trust the sports network then:

http://txstatebobcats.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/092004aaa.html

[*****]

... guess i shouldn't trust the sports network then...Well, you know what they say about opinions... :)

[McNeese75]

That may be but you did not win that game because of a blocked field goal by our defense.

Hummmm, where were you that afternoon? There was no blocked field goal, there was an interception inside your 10 yard line with less than 30 seconds to go that saved the game. Your DEFENSE gave up over 500 yards that day to a very mediocre Poke offense.

[justballn21]

I know I'm gonna get a lot of crap for saying this but I'd watch out for holy cross next year. and hear me out before you guys rip me a new one. They are returning ALL offensive starters this year, including all-american steve silva (who had been plagued by injuries and now is finally injury free and ready to play to his full potential). They're a little small up front but picked up some key offensive linemen, including a top 50 linemen in the country from jersey (don't ask me how they did it). They averaged at least 24 points per in PL games (thats against teams like lehigh, colgate, lafayette). Theire only hole is defense, but theyve brought in a brand new defensive staff including coach kotolsky who coached at utah and utah state (2 of the many d1-A schools hes coached at). This team intrigues me because theyve been known to be so bad in the past. I'm curious to see what happens.

[GannonFan]

I know I'm gonna get a lot of crap for saying this but I'd watch out for holy cross next year. and hear me out before you guys rip me a new one. Theire only hole is defense...

Not going to rip you, but when your only problem is half the team, then you have big problems. I just can't see a team who's major wins in 2004 include games against Marist and an OT victory over Georgetown being a team that can turn it around in in two years be a major player. There's hope and then there's just unsubstantiated dreaming - nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

[justballn21]

I'm not gonna lie, our defense has been horrid these last few seasons. It's basically been a shootout with other teams the last few years with our offense carrying all the load and our defense gettin their ass kicked. These new coaches theyve brought in though are unbelievable and have already turned this defense into the right direction. I'm not being biased at all and I'm not saying theyre gonna win the national championship, all I'm saying is that this program could be dangerous in future years, especially with the direction the recruiting game has gone. It's time for HC to go back to the glory years when they wiped the PL floor (went undefeated in 1990 1991 and i think 1989, getting a national number 1 ranking in each of those seasons). Trust me when I say this, the atitude is changing on the defensive side of the ball. I see it every night at practice, cuz I'm one of those guys. I still think Lehigh will probably dominate the league again, but we will definitely be more competetive on the defensive side. I wish all teams good luck though on the upcoming season and can't wait till September comes around.

[justballn21]

oh and gannon i cant wait to play you guys next year.....look out for number 91 on the edge hes been out for a year and is thirsty for some blood....blue blood.....go Cross!!!

[TheValleyRaider]

oh and gannon i cant wait to play you guys next year.....look out for number 91 on the edge hes been out for a year and is thirsty for some blood....blue blood.....go Cross!!!

HOLY CROSS BATMAN!! A CRUSADER FAN!! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

Welcome to the board, if you haven't been welcomed already. Always good to have another PL fan. Now if we could just get some Bucknellians here...

[GannonFan]

oh and gannon i cant wait to play you guys next year.....look out for number 91 on the edge hes been out for a year and is thirsty for some blood....blue blood.....go Cross!!!

Gee, we'll have to watch out for that. :rolleyes: Good to see a little enthusiasm here, though, keep it up!

[*****]

... look out for number 91 on the edge hes been out for a year and is thirsty for some blood....blue blood.....go Cross!!!#91 Nate Langelier
Class: Sophomore
Hometown: Oxnard, Calif.
High School: Villanova Prep
Height / Weight: 6-4 / 245
Position: LB
HIGH SCHOOL: A three sport athlete at Villanova Prep, playing football, basketball and volleyball... Earned All League honors as a wide receiver as a junior... Notched 61.5 tackles and one sack as a junior... Was a member of a two-time league champion in basketball.
PERSONAL: Nathan Paul Langelier born on January 4th, 1986... Has one brother and two sisters... Plays guitar and dances with an Polynesian group.

http://goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/langelier_nate00.html

That's a big boy looking for blood! And a musician/dancer!!

[justballn21]

thanks a bunch guys you guys are real avid 1-AA fans and I like that. Gannon I think Delaware is a stellar team and that we REALLY have our work cut out for us. But I'll enjoy playin either way. and valley raider you guys are always tough for us. But thanks for the welcome.

[*****]

thanks a bunch guys you guys are real avid 1-AA fans...Don't forget to spell it with a roman numeral... I-AA. :) Welcome to the jungle and don't leave the field without giving it all you have.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

thanks a bunch guys you guys are real avid 1-AA fans and I like that. Gannon I think Delaware is a stellar team and that we REALLY have our work cut out for us. But I'll enjoy playin either way. and valley raider you guys are always tough for us. But thanks for the welcome.

Good to see a Holy Cross fan here! (Damn, we can't talk smack about the Crusaders anymore boys....)

I think that coach Gilmore does have Holy Cross pointed in the right direction. When we (Lehigh) lost him on our staff a couple of years ago we saw it as a really big loss, and bringing Holy Cross back was not going to be an easy job - it was going to take some time. It looks like he's gone nationwide with recruiting, with more names from California, Colorado and Ohio, something the Cross needed to do.

O'Neil, Silva and Gruber return on offense (yes, having 11 returning starters on offense will be a good thing!). You did lose David Fitzpatrick on "D" who was a really good player, as well as a lot of defenders up front.

I will do my best to make sure Holy Cross doesn't sneak up on Lehigh this year... my priority is rooting for Lehigh wins... but look on the bright side... a loss to Lehigh and wins over Harvard and Delaware to go 10-1, that's a pretty good shot at the I-AA playoffs right there... :cool:

Good luck!

[Killtoppers90]

I think that a #6 might be a little too high for WKU (as much as it pains me to say that) but I am seeing UNI with a little stronger squad RIGHT NOW than us.

[kats89]

You dont even have SHSU on the list? Reasons please, that seems a little unjust. :confused:

Personally I think that SHSU got the shaft in the poll. #14 is a little high, yes we lost a QB yes but we kept most of our defense.

I would think #14 would be a little high for the Kats preseason, but would think we would at least be in the top 20 for sure. Last year, we were picked 5th or 6th in the conference and look what we did. However, Sam Houston returns 49 lettermen off of last years team. We return 5 starters on offense and of the 6 missing, 3 were receivers. We only return 2 starters on the OL, but all of the backups saw significant playing time due to injuries during the year. At the end of the year, 2 or 3 of the OL were the backups at their position and were starting in the playoffs. QB is probably one of the deepest, if not the deepest, position on the offensive side of the ball. We will suprise some people.
Defense we are pretty solid. We should be returning 7 starters off of last years team, but with all of the rotation we do on the DL during the game, we could actually count anyone that played. We will be very solid at LB with Mikulec returning. Don't be suprised if he is in the hunt for the Buchanan Award this year. He definitely has the size and speed as do all of our LB's. I look for the defense to make some noise.
All the polls that don't want to put us in the top 25 to start the year that is fine with me. We will just have to do it all over again. Most people don't remember, but we didn't even crack the top20 after we beat Montana in Huntsville early in the season. We came in at #24 and began our climb from there. Everyone in front better keep a eye in the rear view mirror in 2005.

[Fordham]

Good to see Holy Cross in the house! Now it's just Bucknell that's out in the cold.

Boy, it's amazing how some passionate representation here can turn your perception of a team around. I gotta admit that I was reading your post about the D and the new coaches thinking that you're making a good argument that you guys could really surprise this year (or are at least heading towards being "competitive" again). The funny part is that I have no idea if you know what you're talking about or are just really, really supportive of the program.

Regardless, great to have another PL fan and school in here. I'll still think we'll have to wait and see if you guys are turning things around but it'd be good for the league if you guys get back up there.

PS - if we get a passionate Bucknell fan here I may have to resubmit my top 25 poll.

[colgate13]

I know I'm gonna get a lot of crap for saying this but I'd watch out for holy cross next year. and hear me out before you guys rip me a new one. They are returning ALL offensive starters this year, including all-american steve silva (who had been plagued by injuries and now is finally injury free and ready to play to his full potential). They're a little small up front but picked up some key offensive linemen, including a top 50 linemen in the country from jersey (don't ask me how they did it). They averaged at least 24 points per in PL games (thats against teams like lehigh, colgate, lafayette).

First off, a very hearty welcome to the official first Holy Cross poster. Amazing! :hurray:

Now though, let's get down to some facts: Holy Cross averaged 22.3 points per game in PL contests BUT (and you dug this hole yourself by naming names) Holy Cross scored 14 against Lehigh, 7 against Colgate and 20 against Lafayette for an average of 13.6 points a game.

Holy Cross has a LONG way to go before they claw their way back up to the top of the league. The biggest step they can take this year is a PL win against ANY team other than Georgetown. The top 5 teams are all hungry and competitive with each other. Every game counts so no one is going to be overlooking anyone.

Also, the Patriot League "glory years" you refer to at Holy Cross were when you were phasing out scholarships and had an advantage over the rest of the league. Those were great teams, but with an asterisk for PL play.

I sincerely do hope that Holy Cross turns things around because I am a firm believer in the adage that a rising tide lifts all ships. A good HC team is good for all the PL. Good luck this fall and stay healthy.

[justballn21]

this is very true as holy cross was giving out scholarships at those times.....I wasn't aware taht the rest of the Patriot League was not doing so at the time. And to answer Fordham's question the only reason I can see the change on the field is because I play on the team. Number 91 Nate Langelier, I kinda got sidelined last year after back surgery, but am hoping to come back this year and play again. Don't get me wrong though I have a VERY realistic view on how our seasons will and still know we have a ways to go. But I think with the new defensive staff and how well recruiting went, I think the program is going in the right direction, especially since baskteball steals all the attention because they beat Notre Dame in the NIT. The team's really liking the new defense and I'm hoping ta get some playing time next year (I'll be here four more years anyways because of the red shirt). I really want to play against Lehigh beacuse they are in my opinion the team to beat in our league. Last year their run defense was spectacular. I wish everyone good luck again in the PL. I tell you what the A-10 or CCA better watch out because this PL is making big strides to becoming a big -time contender in the postseason. Only wish more than one team could have a legit chance to advance haha.

[justballn21]

and yes fordham we do need a passionate bucknell fan in this forum because then the PL can take over the posts whoooooo.

[Hansel]

between 89hen, Umassfan, ChickenMan, and Mr. Chicken, I doubt PL posters will ever take over this board (despite 13's best efforts)

[justballn21]

touche my friend, they are posting nuts

[justballn21]

our biggest disadvantage on the defensive side of the ball right now is size: I'm not gonna pull any punches our d-line is a bit undersized, especially for the beasts that Lehigh and Colgate have up front on the O-line.

[Pantherpower]

If nothing else, I became a Holy Cross fan when the Crusaders traveled to South Bend and knocked off the "fighting" irish. Digger was just beside himself b/c he no longer had a case to make for why his team should've made the Big Dance instead of UNI. Way to go Crusaders!!

[colgate13]

between 89hen, Umassfan, ChickenMan, and Mr. Chicken, I doubt PL posters will ever take over this board (despite 13's best efforts)

In sheer volume, never... but, as a posts as a percentage of a school's alumni base and/or size... the PL could be a contender. Using that criteria, I might have the crown!

Go get 'em 91. I wish you all the best at Holy Cross. I too had to come back from surgery (shoulders; not back) and it's not fun - but, after that physical therapy, practice was easy!