UNI vs GSU Who gets higher seed?

[nmatsen]

This is contingent upon UNI winning next weekend and GSU losing. Who has the better resume and is more deserving of a better seed?

UNI MVC Co Champions (9 DI Wins)
GSU Socon Champions (8 DI Wins)

UNI 3 wins vs top 25 teams on 11/14 (In State, Il State, Youngstown State)
GSU 2 wins vs top 25 teams on 11/14 (Wofford, Elon)

UNI 2 wins vs "others receiving votes on 11/14" (SDSU, SUU)
GSU 1 win vs "others receiving votes on 11/14" (Samford)

UNI 2 Non conference wins against .500 or better programs (Stephen F, Southern Utah)
GSU 2 Non conference wins (Tusculum DII, Presbyterian College 3-7)

UNI 1 loss to top 5 team (NDSU) on the road
GSU 1 loss to top 10 team (App St) on the road

UNI 1 Point loss to Big XII team with winning record
GSU (?) Point loss to top 5 BCS SEC team

Well? What do you think? I believe that UNI deserves a better seed, again, there is a lot of work to be done, Illinois State will NOT be easy, but I think we take care of business.

What say you?

[Apphole]

Strength of schedual

[GSU Eagle]

GSU won the SoCon. I don't see a 2nd MVC team seeded over the winner of the SoCon. The resumes actually are very close, but I believe the SoCon champ will be seeded over a 2nd MVC team.

[nmatsen]

Strength of schedual

I am not sure where to find it, and it might prove your point, but wasn't UNI's strength of schedule higher than GSU's? And also, does the selection committee look at records with DII wins included? If so, it will show UNI with one more win...

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

SoCon champ is a higher seed over the 2nd place Valley team.

[GSU Eagle]

The truth is it is hard to compare FCS teams from different conferences. I haven't done research but it seems to me when the seeds come out we will see the winners of the SoCon, CAA, MVC, Big Sky and probably Southland in some order as 1-5. Assuming a tie between NDSU AND UNI, the nod has to go to NDSU because of the head-to-head win. So I think a SoCon champ trumps a 2nd MVC team.

[Grizalltheway]

SoCon champ is a higher seed over the 2nd place Valley team.

I agree, but UNI will technically be co-champs if they win next weekend.

[nmatsen]

UNI has receive a seed before as recently as 2008 over the auto bid, anytime someone other than Montana has gotten the auto from the BS conference Montana still gets the seed (I can think of 2003 MSU off the top of my head because they came to the dome) You guys have to remember we are dealing with the NCAA, whatever happens, it will not be reasonable....

[GSU Eagle]

I would not be surprised at all to see seeds #1 and #2 be the top 2 attendance teams.

[heath]

SoCon champ is a higher seed over the 2nd place Valley team.

agree,think SHSU splits them in the top 5
3-GSU
4-SHSU
5-UNI

[Engineer86]

agree,think SHSU splits them in the top 5
3-GSU
4-SHSU
5-UNI

No Towson? I have a tough time seeing them not seeded if they win.

[nmatsen]

I think you guys are mistaking deserved for who do you think will get it. Is there one category that I listed that doesn't favor UNI? If this was a "blind resume" comparrison this would be UNI hands down. More wins, better wins, lost to a higher ranked team, closer to BCS loss (not that is saying anything we played ISU), higher Sagirin ranking, more top 25 wins, better OOC SOS, better conference SOS, nothing says that GSU is better, nothing. If you can find it, point it out. Please. I just don't understand this.

[Hammerhead]

The Sagarin ratings have UNI's strength of schedule at #132 and Ga. Southern down at #157.
For the rest of the top 5 in the Sagarin rated teams, SOS is:

NDSU is at #146,
Montana State is at #155 and
Sam Houston State down at #205


I am not sure where to find it, and it might prove your point, but wasn't UNI's strength of schedule higher than GSU's? And also, does the selection committee look at records with DII wins included? If so, it will show UNI with one more win...

[seantaylor]

GSU, easily. Play in a better conference, are sole champs and not co champs. Have a much better road win and better road loss.

[frozennorth]

GSU, easily. Play in a better conference, are sole champs and not co champs. Have a much better road win and better road loss.
One is debatable. The last two are false.

[seantaylor]

One is debatable. The last two are false.

Share with me the last two.

[pike51]

SoCon > MVC - Enough said.

[eaglesrthe1]

I am not sure where to find it, and it might prove your point, but wasn't UNI's strength of schedule higher than GSU's? And also, does the selection committee look at records with DII wins included? If so, it will show UNI with one more win...

At this point maybe, but after this week, definitely not. SOS is figured on who you have played, not who you are going to play.

GSU has Alabama this week.

[Lakes Bison]

UNI does. duh

[Apphole]

There are 3 conferences between the SoCon and the MVC, one of which is FBS. The SOS debate is not even close. App, GaSo and Wofford would handily beat any MVC team 9/10 times.

[eagle07]

I think you guys are mistaking deserved for who do you think will get it. Is there one category that I listed that doesn't favor UNI? If this was a "blind resume" comparrison this would be UNI hands down. More wins, better wins, lost to a higher ranked team, closer to BCS loss (not that is saying anything we played ISU), higher Sagirin ranking, more top 25 wins, better OOC SOS, better conference SOS, nothing says that GSU is better, nothing. If you can find it, point it out. Please. I just don't understand this.

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/056/679/original/U_Mad2.jpg?1277750116

[Hammerhead]

Is this your opinion or a computer ranking? Sagarin has the MVFC as the top-rated FCS conference after the games on 12-Nov-2011.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc11.htm


There are 3 conferences between the SoCon and the MVC, one of which is FBS. The SOS debate is not even close. App, GaSo and Wofford would handily beat any MVC team 9/10 times.

[eaglewithabus]

we are socon champs....just look at the results of your own poll. UNI would lose three conference games a year in the SoCon.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

we are socon champs....just look at the results of your own poll. UNI would lose three conference games a year in the SoCon.

In the words of the great Chad Ocho Cinco, CHILD PLEASE!!!!

[GATA_Eagles]

I can see it going something like this...if Montana State wins this weekend:
1. Montana State
2/3. Sam Houston
3/2. Georgia Southern
4. North Dakota State
5. Toss-up between CAA winner and UNI

[Reign of Terrier]

GSU should be ranked higher, will probably have better attendance, won their conference outright and will have more overall wins than UNI. They should have it

[UNIFanSince1983]

Actually we will have the same amount of wins unless GSU beats Bama, and we wouldn't have a DII win. So in the committees eyes we actually will have more wins. But the better attendance, and winning conference outright are the important points there in my opinion.

[nmatsen]

Its not UNI's fault that App State choked away a share of the conference title. Why should we be penalized for being co-champs when the only reason GSU is outright champs and not in the exact same situation UNI is in is because App State has 2 Socon losses instead of 1 because they can't take care of business against Furman?

We will also have 9 D-I wins vs GSU's 8, if this were a resume battle for the last spot in the dance, with no auto bids, UNI wins it hands down in the eyes of any informed, educated, un-biased person. Name one factual argument that shows GSU having a better resume for a higher seed. The only thing you have is the politics of "GSU won their conference outright."

Would it be any different if NDSU lost to WIU and we beat Il State and were outright champs? No, it wouldn't, NDSU choking should not hurt a GSU team.

[FargoBison]

UNI guys, GSU fans will have none of NDSU being seeded higher either. Their only arguments are historical and political.

The unbiased Massey ratings tell the story about how good the MVFC is this year....NDSU and UNI are 1-2(just like in Sagarin)...

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf

[CropDuster]

Its not UNI's fault that App State choked away a share of the conference title. Why should we be penalized for being co-champs when the only reason GSU is outright champs and not in the exact same situation UNI is in is because App State has 2 Socon losses instead of 1 because they can't take care of business against Furman?


This part of your post makes no sense. App scraped by with a 7 point win at home in a place we've only won something like 3 times. The two teams they lost to, Wofford and Furman, we beat by a combined total of 51 points. If anything GSU choked at Boone, which led to us "only" winning our conference outright a week later than we should have.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The advantage in the Sagarin ratings are not all that significant, and FWIW the SoCon has had the advantage over the MVC for most of the season. IMO, the key difference between UNI and GSU's conference schedule is that there is more of a dropoff outside the top 4 in the MVC than there is in the SoCon. In the SoCon every team other than Western is a handful. In the MVC you have a clear bottom tier that is not at all competitive with the rest (SDSU, SIU, MSU, and WIU). GSU's conference schedule is more solid.

Also, recent history plays a big role as it should. UNI lost to Lehigh at home and WIU was destroyed by App. State in the playoffs last year. On the other hand GSU won 3 playoff games including being on the road at the number 2 seed. If you were going to bet on whether GSU or UNI would do better in the playoffs this year, who would you take?

[UNIFanSince1983]

What has The Citadel, Samford, and Elon done that proves they are better than SDSU, SIU or WIU?

The answer is just they play in the SoCon. So you're argument is still subjective and based on your own opinion. I can admit I have only seen little bits of the SoCon teams play, however, will you admit you haven't watched every team in the Valley to see how good they are. Are you basing you opinion on just past history? This year has nothing to do with previous years.

Right now there is nothing that we can do that can prove which conference is better this year.

[blueballs]

I would think once Alabama is incorporated into GSU's SOS their computer ratings will go up pretty significantly... is this true?

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Not sure where you got your top 25 info from for GSU. Elon was not ranked when we played them, however you left Chattanooga out who was ranked at the time we played them.

[nmatsen]

Not sure where you got your top 25 info from for GSU. Elon was not ranked when we played them, however you left Chattanooga out who was ranked at the time we played them.

I am pretty sure the rankings are from end of the year, now, if you want me to talk about Stephen F Austin being in the top 15 when we beat them on the road we can, but that being said SFA is not a top 25 team...we know that now.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

The Citadel beat a very good UTC team and also hung within 7 points of App State and 2 points of Georgia Southern (as much as I hate to use that as a reference). Elon beat a Furman team people haven't given enough credit. Furman beat Wofford, Chattanooga and App State. Samford beat Furman. The SoCon is similar to the SEC in that in any given week one team can beat the other if they outplay them.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

I am pretty sure the rankings are from end of the year, now, if you want me to talk about Stephen F Austin being in the top 15 when we beat them on the road we can, but that being said SFA is not a top 25 team...we know that now.

I'm not trying to debate about who deserves what because of playing ranked opponents, I'm just wondering which poll this came from and whether or not the info is based on current rankings or rankings at the time of the game. Either way, Elon isn't ranked.

[UNIFanSince1983]

The Citadel beat a very good UTC team and also hung within 7 points of App State and 2 points of Georgia Southern (as much as I hate to use that as a reference). Elon beat a Furman team people haven't given enough credit. Furman beat Wofford, Chattanooga and App State. Samford beat Furman. The SoCon is similar to the SEC in that in any given week one team can beat the other if they outplay them.

But does that show strength of a conference or weakness? Does that mean the top teams aren't as good or does it mean the bottom teams are really that good? We don't know because outside of the conference they haven't played anyone. This goes for the teams in the MVFC as well.

At least with the SEC you know because LSU played Oregon, and West Virginia. Alabama played Penn State out of conference. It is not really the same with the SoCon. This is one problem with the FCS. Teams need that money game against a BCS team, but they play in tough conferences so they don't schedule big time games OOC. I really would like to see this changed, but don't think it will any time soon.

[boonegoon]

But does that show strength of a conference or weakness? Does that mean the top teams aren't as good or does it mean the bottom teams are really that good? We don't know because outside of the conference they haven't played anyone. This goes for the teams in the MVFC as well.

At least with the SEC you know because LSU played Oregon, and West Virginia. Alabama played Penn State out of conference. It is not really the same with the SoCon. This is one problem with the FCS. Teams need that money game against a BCS team, but they play in tough conferences so they don't schedule big time games OOC. I really would like to see this changed, but don't think it will any time soon.



The only measuring stick we have is Chattanooga. They are the 6th best team in the SOCON and beat 2 probable OVC co-champions by a combined 5 touchdowns.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

I think it shows a strong conference personally, but I'm also just a tad bias. What rubs me the wrong way is the fact that SHSU will be seeded higher based on an undefeated season (assuming they win this weekend) and an FBS win against a team that ranks worse than 66 FCS schools in the Sagarin ratings. I'll say I'm not totally behind Sagarin as a measure of how good a team is. You guys had a close loss to a mediocre Iowa State team. Not to take anything away from you guys, they're still a Big XII team and you guys gave them a heck of a game. Now if either of us had played an FBS team as poor as New Mexico we could have easily won IMO. We can sit here and talk about it as much as we can but overall it comes down to opinion. I'll say GSU should be seeded higher, you'll say UNI should. Guess we'll find out in a few days!

[UNIFanSince1983]

I actually think it should be close. I think GSU maybe should based on winning their conference outright. I think both of us could be seeded, however, if we win and NDSU loses. I am just sick of the bashing of our entire conference. Our conference is not "weak" like a lot of the SoCon posters would seem to think. There are reasons for GSU to be seeded ahead of UNI I just don't feel that one of those reasons is because of our conference. I don't think the entire SoCon is head a shoulders above any other conference like some of you guys think.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

I don't feel like I'm in a position to make a call on your conference either way. I will say that the SoCon is clearly at the top of the FCS along with a few other conferences. I reckon we'll see what conferences are best after December.

[Fear the Bird]

A 9-2 conference champion GSU will be seeded ahead of a 9-2 second place UNI. Here is what needs to happen for UNI to be seeded:

1) MSU win (Montana win opens up the door for MSU being debated with UNI as the best 2nd place team)
2) Towson AND Maine lose
3) SHSU lose

Obviously an NDSU loss would be the easiest scenario so let's throw that out. I think MSU winning is exclusive and a must. If either 2) or 3) happen along with 1), then I think you can have something like MSU, GSU, NDSU, SHSU/Towson/Maine, UNI

But at that point, isn't Lehigh given consideration for the 5 seed also?

[nmatsen]

First and foremost let me come back to reality real quick. We have a HUGE task waiting for us in Illinois State. We must first win that game. If we do:

We will have just beaten our 3rd top 25 team the same day GSU will get slaughtered by Alabama...

We will have just beaten our 3rd top 25 team the same day that NDSU beats a horrible WIU team...

SUU and SFA have a very good chance of finishing 6-5, leaving them our non-conference opponents with a winning record...

If Montana beats MSU the same day that the above happen, we could be the 2nd ranked team in the nation in both the human and computer polls, you are high if you think the committee won't seed us.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

First and foremost let me come back to reality real quick. We have a HUGE task waiting for us in Illinois State. We must first win that game. If we do:

We will have just beaten our 3rd top 25 team the same day GSU will get slaughtered by Alabama...

We will have just beaten our 3rd top 25 team the same day that NDSU beats a horrible WIU team...

SUU and SFA have a very good chance of finishing 6-5, leaving them our non-conference opponents with a winning record...

If Montana beats MSU the same day that the above happen, we could be the 2nd ranked team in the nation in both the human and computer polls, you are high if you think the committee won't seed us.


Ya, maybe somewhere but not over a 10-1 Bison team that has a FBS win, 3 top 25 FCS wins and a head-to-head win over UNI........there's reality.

[BoroNative]

Its not UNI's fault that App State choked away a share of the conference title.

If your going to bring in what if's you can validate any argument. It's not GSU's fault the refs at App gave Quick a TD on an obvious dropped pass in the endzone which resulted in a 7 point win by App.

See how that works?

[nmatsen]

Ya, maybe somewhere but not over a 10-1 Bison team that has a FBS win, 3 top 25 FCS wins and a head-to-head win over UNI........there's reality.

It is hilarious to me how naive the Bison fans are when it comes to dealing with the selection committee. Trust me Bison fans, I have sat around many of selection Sunday scratching my head at the picks. You think your argument is logical, however, if we are higher than you in all polls, and coming off a big win, the selection committee will do something illogical...ask anyone, especially SIU 2008 when they beat us and we took the seed. I am not saying that you don't deserve a better seed, you probably do, the point is you lost at the wrong time of year....

[Gil Dobie]

Trust me Bison fans, I have sat around many of selection Sunday scratching my head at the picks.

After reading this thread, I am not surprised ;)

[nmatsen]

After reading this thread, I am not surprised ;)

I must admit, that was good.

[MplsBison]

This is contingent upon UNI winning next weekend and GSU losing. Who has the better resume and is more deserving of a better seed?

UNI MVC Co Champions (9 DI Wins)
GSU Socon Champions (8 DI Wins)

UNI 3 wins vs top 25 teams on 11/14 (In State, Il State, Youngstown State)
GSU 2 wins vs top 25 teams on 11/14 (Wofford, Elon)

UNI 2 wins vs "others receiving votes on 11/14" (SDSU, SUU)
GSU 1 win vs "others receiving votes on 11/14" (Samford)

UNI 2 Non conference wins against .500 or better programs (Stephen F, Southern Utah)
GSU 2 Non conference wins (Tusculum DII, Presbyterian College 3-7)

UNI 1 loss to top 5 team (NDSU) on the road
GSU 1 loss to top 10 team (App St) on the road

UNI 1 Point loss to Big XII team with winning record
GSU (?) Point loss to top 5 BCS SEC team

Well? What do you think? I believe that UNI deserves a better seed, again, there is a lot of work to be done, Illinois State will NOT be easy, but I think we take care of business.

What say you?

NDSU beat UNI - they are the sole champs of the MVFC. UNI will not be receiving any kind of trophy or even a congratulatory phone call for being 2nd place in the MVFC this season. xcoffeex

[nmatsen]

In the record books it will show UNI as Champions if we both win on Saturday, I think (not certain) that we get a trophy too. Then again, I wouldn't expect NDSU to know anything about an Gateway / MVC trophy...

That being said, if it were up to me UNI would not accept any trophy unless they were outright champs, or in your position, beat the team they are tied with.

[Blue Eagle]

This issue was settled in 1985 when Ga. Southern defeated UNI on the road in the semi-final game!!! Just kidding

IMO the SoCon has been the most competitive this year that I can remember. And if my memory is correct there have been at least 6 SoCon teams ranked in the top 25 and at least 7 teams that have been very competitive.

Because most teams do not play a team from outside their area who knows which conference has been the best. But one way to evaluate the strength of conferences is to compare how they have done in past playoffs.

Yes, I believe, past years can be an indicator of well teams will perform in the playoff!!! And if you look at the history of the playoffs you will find the SoCon has been the dominant conference in wins & National Championships.

That is my argument for Ga. Southern being seeded above UNI.

GO EAGLES
"JUST ONE MORE TIME"

[achrist70]

If UNI beats ISUred and Georgia Southern looses big time to Alabama I feel that UNI has the better resume, but I am not getting the cart in front of the horse when it comes to Saturday.

Alabama is not out of contention for the BCS title game, so I don't see them holding back.

[Fear the Bird]

If GSU loses 7-6 or 77-6 is completely irrelevant for seeding purposes